← No Offseason: The Athletic Women's Basketball Show
No Offseason: The Athletic Women's Basketball Show
The Athletic All Access: Iowa AHC Jan Jensen
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- [00:00]
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- [05:15]
Zena Keda
For the Athletic I'm Zena Keda and this is the Athletic Women's Basketball Show. Welcome to the Athletic Women's Basketball show with the special edition of Athletic All Access. Today, our girl, Chantelle Jennings is in Iowa with a Special guest tied to a very particular basketball player who is looking history in its eyes. That is Caitlin Clark, who's facing off against two teams this week as she looks to beat the NCAA scoring record and take it over. Shantel, take it away.
- [06:03]
Chantelle Jennings
I'm here in Iowa City this week sitting with associate head coach for Iowa women's basketball, Jan Jensen. Hawkeyes right now, as we record this on Wednesday afternoon are 21 and 2 top of the table in the Big Ten at 10, 1 tied with Ohio State there right now. By the time our listeners hear this, Iowa will have played Penn State at home. My first chance to see Caitlin and the Hawkeyes and Carver Hawkeye Arena. I'm pretty excited about that. And then I will be heading on the road to Omaha, Nebraska, Lincoln, Nebraska, to catch what could be a historic game as Caitlin chases kelsey Plumb's Division 1 scoring record. Jan, thanks for joining us on the pod today.
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Jan Jensen
Thank you so much. It's fun to be here with you.
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Chantelle Jennings
Well, I want to start with Caitlin. She's one of the biggest storylines in college basketball and college sports right now. But I want to go back to the beginning, her recruiting story. When was the first time you heard about her and when was the first time you saw her? Do you remember?
- [06:58]
Jan Jensen
I heard about her from a relative of my spouses who are kind of like our parents, John Hurley, among others. But he was like, oh, there's this good kid coming up in the Dowling system. And you kind of in the back of your mind, you just plug in the name in your head. But sixth grade's, you know, not as young now, but a few years ago that was a little bit younger. And then I think it was seventh grade or so. We she was at a tournament in Ames, Iowa, and Abby Stamp was there. I was there. And you know, Abby was like, yeah, she's pretty good. And so when I also saw her, you know, she just had it, you know, she had to step back three at that age, she had the swag. But just like it is now, what what's really impressive and it was then was her passing, like what she was doing, passing to kids who weren't ready to catch it from that far away. Like she was seeing it happen. That was, I mean, I remember I shook my head like, wow, this kid. And so that's when I heard about her in elementary school, but saw her in junior high and then of course tracked her just about every tried to every game or basically every major move she made. We were trying to be there.
- [08:16]
Chantelle Jennings
So one of my Favorite things about Caitlin this year, I think you guys are filling up arenas everywhere you go, selling out. And so I have fellow reporters and friends who are buying tickets to come see you guys, but to come see Caitlin, right? And my favorite question to ask them is, what did you see in person that you didn't see on film? And it's fun to sort of get that answer from people, because TV can only capture so much. For you. Watching her on film during the recruiting period versus watching her in person, what were those things that you saw? Maybe intangibles or on the court?
- [08:48]
Jan Jensen
Well, I think I'm not a big number one side note, I'm not a big recruiting film person. I like to see them play live for the reasons of what you've said. But you have to have a beginning point. But if you just looked at with Caitlin, what you miss sometimes just watching her on TV is all the things she does, sometimes that isn't just caught on the camera. It's her head is constantly on a swivel. She understands the game so many steps ahead of it. And sometimes the camera's just watching her dribble down. But when you're in the game and you can kind of take a glance down the floor and you can look what she's seeing, sometimes it's not what you see, right? And then all of a sudden, it's like, whoa, she just delivered that on the money, right? And I think that's something that is fun when people see her in person. But there's the flair, you know, the intensity, the fire. You know, they have that Caitlin Clark cam at the last game. You know, that's another element, you know, when you have that, it's also everything that you. You don't do great that people can pick up on, right? But she just. She just herself. She's an intense competitor. And I think that's what's fun, is to watch her in practice every day, you know, full 360, right? And watching her in games, it's the same. She competes. She competes hard. She wants to win. Everything she does. And the great ones are wired in such a way, it's noticeably different. And when you see her play live, I think you understand it then even more than you think you do on TV, because she is 100%, all in, all the time. And that's what's fun when you're in the presence, because you see everything that she's doing. And I think that's the thing that you can kind of miss when you're just watching film. Because especially in high school, you know, just usually a camera going, you couldn't see the depth of what she does now with, you know, TV and Caitlin cams you, it's a whole different deal. But her presence, I don't think it's one thing. It's not like, oh, you'll notice her passing more or you'll notice her shooting that's really even farther. It's just her presence and it's really quite remarkable.
- [11:17]
Chantelle Jennings
So one of the things you brought up was something I really wanted to touch on. You said she's full go all the time. And I think that's what has impressed me the most this season with her is that people are showing up to watch her play and she hasn't disappointed. I'm sure if she were sitting here, she would say, you know, there's some games that she hasn't been efficient enough offensively and you guys aren't undefeated. So she hasn't been good enough. I'm sure she could point things out to me, but the people who are showing up to watch her play, they are getting what they paid for in many ways. To be able to do that night in and night out does take someone who is full go all the time. And a lot of I think every great, like you said, has to be like that. Is there almost sort of like a. Like when she's not in the gym, are you guys making sure like Caitlin take time to not be full go? Like, please just be a slug. Can you binge some Netflix shows and tell like, are you giving her homework to be a little bit of like.
- [12:11]
Jan Jensen
Yeah, I mean it definitely takes, you know, I think with any great would tell you right. Their inner circle is incredibly tight and the village of which we all come from. You think of your village. I think of my village. The people that you really trust, you give them a lot of just gratitude, a lot of thanks for helping you become who you are. And Caitlin's family is amazing. Her circle of tight confidants is amazing. And I think that, you know, we were a really great choice for. I'd like to think the way we always raise a player or raise a team, if you will. And I think Lisa was the perfect head coach for a player and a person like Caitlin. And so we do, we have, you know, I try to do a non anything type of check in with her at least once a week of just like, you know, how we doing? You know, and it's nothing to do with hoops. It's nothing to do with the success or the failure is like, how are you? How your heart? How's your mind? Right. And I think she knows that. I think she knows there's that trust. And we're aware, obviously, we know the pressures, we know the things that. I don't care how much of a superpowers you have, just the weight of what she's carrying and some of the detractors. Right. But we do have things in place. But I think even, you know, I love our system, but I think that whole system starts with, you know, the inner circle, the trust and the love. And I think that's something we've all had and certainly her family's had. And we've just kind of. That's been like Fort Knox. You know, there's that and then everything else that comes outside of that, if there's a few fires here or there, were equipped to help deal with it because it never gets inside. Certainly, you know, a lot of that stuff where maybe the public wants to rage about and like, oh, that's unfair, or she's this or that or whatever. She stays true to who she is. And I think it's because everybody's aware and we love her and we're going to protect her.
- [14:32]
Chantelle Jennings
You talk about consistency. I think a big part of that is coaching staff consistency. She's had that level of security here since she's been at Iowa. But also someone you talked about earlier, Kate Martin, someone who's been here her entire career. Caitlin is not Caitlin. Without Caitlin, how important is it through Caitlin's growth that she's had someone a more veteran player, someone who's also incredibly steady. Probably anyone who covered the Final Four last year was like, if you need an Iowa quote, find Kate Martin in the locker room. She's great. She's super chatty. How important has it been for someone like Kate to be on this roster?
- [15:06]
Jan Jensen
Yeah, I think that's, you know, I think all of it kind of has come in line. You know, you think like a kid, like a Caitlin. Most of the players that are on D1 rosters, they've always been special. They're always been the best. Right. And Kate Martin was like that. I mean, she was like a little linebacker for her dad was a football coach. So up until sixth grade, Kaitlyn's like this little linebacker, quarterback. And then bodies change. And then dad started to think, no, you're not going to get hammered by those guys anymore. But, you know, she was wired for greatness, obviously, as well as she's playing. But the thing that I think was great For Caitlin is when she got here, then she began to be surrounded by other amazingly competitive minds and people that were also striving for greatness. Now, on any college team, that's going to vary, right? You know, a lot of times with Caitlin, like, you have to kind of work with her as a freshman. It's like, okay, they're not here. Some of your teammates, they can't get there. Maybe they don't need to be there, but you need to work with them where they are, right? So there's going to be varying levels. And I think for the most part, you could probably say that about the Golden State warriors, right? You know how Steph Curry's wired versus the practice guys, right? All working, but Steph's got a mindset. So I think what was great about Kate Martin is Kate Martin's wired a lot like Kaitlyn is. You know, it's one speed and we're going to go and we got a confidence and we're going to be the best that ever was. Well, I don't know if Caitlin ever kind of have that. You know, she played on some great AAU teams and high school teams, but when she got here and she had someone that I think she could identify, like, hey, she gets me. But Kate was also able to say, hold on, that's acceptable. That isn't, you know, to hold someone accountable, like, and that takes maturity, that takes confidence, and it's not easy to do with peers. I don't care. Any coach in the country will tell you that the great captains, that ability to walk that line, and even if it's your best friend to say, call them out, it's hard. And so Kate, the younger years with Caitlyn, they were always been best friends, fast friends. But there was that pull, right, to be able to do that and kind of make them disappointed or upset sometimes. But Kate Martin could always see the bigger picture as well. And she's been a captain's captain. Honestly, we've had some great captains, but Kate Martin is in a league by herself. And I just think it was that perfect timing for Caitlin to have someone she trusted so much that she could truly be herself with and really respect the feedback. And I think that's what solidified that confidence. Even more so for Caitlin, because she knew. She knew no matter what, I got someone that's got my back and that's going to tell me the truth. And I can handle the truth. A lot of times, I mean, Caitlin was so great early. I'm like, who's going to step up and say, wait, wait, wait. I don't think I should have done that. Right. Because she's Caitlin. So I think that was a really great friendship that's turned into just a really amazing teammate and captain and mentor and peer, all of that. And Caitlin's made Kate certainly better. Kate's made Caitlin better. And in turn, those two together have made everybody around them better.
- [18:38]
Chantelle Jennings
So I want to go from one great score to another. I think you've heard of her. Jan Jensen.
- [18:44]
Jan Jensen
Yeah, that's dust off the cobwebs.
- [18:47]
Chantelle Jennings
How's that for a transition? Yeah, there we go. You know, I think we're in the state of Iowa right now. If we ask most people in the Iowa City area, who's Jan Jensen? The first thing they'll say is associate head basketball coach at Iowa. And very quickly they will follow up with and also the last great 6 on 6 player in the state of Iowa.
- [19:06]
Jan Jensen
One of them, certainly. I don't know if I was great. I scored a lot of points. There's been a lot, a lot, a lot of great players.
- [19:12]
Chantelle Jennings
You averaged 66 points a game as a senior.
- [19:14]
Jan Jensen
I did. And never met a shot I didn't like. I still had team. I still had friends. I like to say that we just knew our role really well and I got a shoot. I mean, someone had to do it.
- [19:24]
Chantelle Jennings
Yeah. I was doing some research for this interview and I was really happy to come across the quote from you and Des Moines Register piece from the late 80s that said scorers sell tickets. I was like, some things hold true, right? Some things really hold true when you.
- [19:39]
Jan Jensen
Grow up with the state. Six on six, everybody scored points and the gyms were sold, really sold out for girls basketball back then. I grew up loving offense and I think offense is really, really fun to watch. I know defense will win those championships. I totally agree with that.
- [19:58]
Chantelle Jennings
I think that was the second part of your quote, too.
- [19:59]
Jan Jensen
It was. I think Pat Summitt made that really famous. But I'm just, you know, wired. I think beautiful offense is beautiful. And when you can put the ball in the bucket, it's fun.
- [20:11]
Chantelle Jennings
So for those who aren't initiated into sort of the history and steeped in this six on six basketball culture that has existed in Iowa for more than 100 years at this point, maybe give like the Reader's Digest version, if you can, about what and why. Why it's so important here.
- [20:27]
Jan Jensen
Basically, it was two games of three on three. So for all the listeners is the crazy thing is it was six players on the court on the full court, right? So there were three that could shoot the ball and three that would only defend the ball. So the shooters were called forwards and the defenders were called guards. But the interesting thing was you never crossed half court. So if you were a shooter, you always stayed on your end, and if you were a defender, you always stayed on that end. And so after offense, if you made a bucket, the referee would grab the ball, throw it up to the partner, and then they would start the 3 on 3 game on the other side. So if that team made a bucket, the referee would grab it, throw it to his partner, throw it to the other side, and then three on three. If the ball was missed, you took a shot and the defenders got it. Everybody only got two dribbles to advance. So the defender would dribble two, and then she'd throw it to her teammate, the defender. Three on three, remember? And then they would throw it to their offensive teammates on the other side, and then they would score up, and then they'd have always only two dribbles to get down, to advance, to try to score a point. So if you were a very good scoring team, you can see how the. The baskets would be paced because the rest would grab it, throw it up, give it to the other side. And that's why the points in six on six were a little bit higher. But basically, it's three on three. You just never crossed half court. So it can sound boring now, and it can sound certainly like the defenders were kind of. That was a bummer for them. But when you'd go to the camps for six on six, it'd be an even split who wanted to be a defender and who'd wanted to be a scorer. Because some kids just really couldn't score the ball. They weren't good at shooting, but they were pretty fast. They were scrappy. And so it just was the way it was. Right. So it became really popular for all those generations, and it was just became part of the Iowa lore. But you could become pretty good at your skill, right? Because if you were a shooter and a scorer, that's all you were working on. We didn't have to work on defense. So if you had a knack to score and that's all you worked on, you got to be pretty prolific. If you had a knack and you worked your tail off defensively, you know, you were a hard, hard worker. You're constantly working on your, you know. Yeah. So you could be pretty great at a skill set. And that's why some of the all time Leading great scorers, became pretty prolific because we loved it and that's all we were doing. And you could hone your craft and not have to worry about the other end.
- [23:15]
Chantelle Jennings
Yeah, I think your career high in high school was 105.
- [23:18]
Jan Jensen
Yeah, 104 or 5. I can't remember now.
- [23:21]
Chantelle Jennings
Yeah, Caitlin hasn't hit that yet. It's a great game, but hasn't hit that number yet.
- [23:25]
Jan Jensen
No, I'm not putting anything past that kid.
- [23:27]
Chantelle Jennings
Yeah, well, looking back at the numbers, it's kind of crazy to think about how much. And your grandma, Dirk Sanderson, nicknamed Lottie because she scored a lot of points, played in the 20s. And so there is this intergenerational love, girls and women's basketball in the state, I mean, in the 50s, 15,000 people are showing up for the state tournament.
- [23:48]
Jan Jensen
In the 60s, you couldn't get a ticket for that championship game. In the golden era of that six on six tournament, it was, it was.
- [23:56]
Chantelle Jennings
Harder than an Iowa ticket.
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Jan Jensen
I think it would definitely rival it. I would hear, you know, I wasn't here yet when I read the history or my grandmother was telling me about it or all those. But all those that came before. I mean, people would have generational little tickets, like they would buy the tickets. When I began recruiting, we coached at Drake for a few years before we came here. I love Drake, by the way. Played there, but there would be women and their husbands that I would see and become friends with. They had season tickets going on 40 years.
- [24:28]
Chantelle Jennings
Wow.
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Jan Jensen
And that was their thing. And they were just always, they would always come and it was the thing to do. And then when they switched over to five on five, it lost that popularity. It's still one of the better attended in the United States and certainly one of the best as far as pomp and circumstance is concerned. I recruit most the states in the country and their state tournaments are not what Iowa is. I mean, their players might be better, but what Iowa puts into their event is really, they make it really, really special. So that, I think has been traced back to the beginnings of the importance they placed on it.
- [25:07]
Chantelle Jennings
Well, I think it, you know, little more than 50 years past the passage of Title IX, Iowa really kind of had a head start in that way. In the 70s, one in five high school girls who was playing a sport resided in Iowa.
- [25:19]
Jan Jensen
Right.
- [25:19]
Chantelle Jennings
When you think about the total population of Iowa versus the country and then you say, well, you know, there were girls playing basketball in the 20s here in state tournaments. And in the 60s, the state tournament was broadcast in nine different states. Like how many state tournaments are broadcast in nine different states now? Not that many. So looking at sort of that history, your history within it, how much does that sort of feed into? How much, you know, you said five on five at the high school level. Not as big a six on six as it was. But Iowa and Iowa State were two of the four teams in the country that last year that turned out 10,000 fans a game for home games. How much has that sort of carried over for just the love of women's basketball and girls basketball in the state?
- [26:04]
Jan Jensen
I feel like that has been the root of. It did start in 6 on 6 with all the, you know, opportunities that we had. People were growing up with an expectation that they were valued and there was an interest in them. I remember when I came to Drake, who was very. When I was recruited out of high school, they were the best in the, in state at that time. They were in the late 8th, the year before I came out, and they were attended. They hosted an NCAA tournament. They had a nice, you know, nice crowd in their small field house. But I remember when I started to have consistent games, I just couldn't believe that it wasn't as well attended as the men's games. I mean, it was like, you know, you're being. You're busy being recruited. You know, you're. You make your decision, you're recruited all over the country. You come to Drake, you see the sellouts for the big games, but you're never paying attention to the men's side. Right. You're living in my rural community growing up, where the girls, if they didn't outsell the boys, it was even. No one left after the girls games, no one left during the boys games, or no one left watched, the boys left for the girls. We were. Everybody watched. And so then when you come and you'd see the men getting eight to 10,000 and you were getting the two, it was a kind of like what? And then began my lifelong quest to try to move the needle where women would be respected, the game would be enjoyed without having to be compared or thought of as less than. And since I grew up with that philosophy and that experience that we played six on six, the boys played five on five. It was similar but different. Everybody was supporting both. When we got here in college, we're playing five on five, same but different. We didn't play above the rim. We, you know, still don't. We weren't about all the power and all the physicality, but a really well coached and well Played basketball game that the women were playing, it was pretty. It's prettier now, right? We've gotten better and better, but for so long, even now, you hear, get back in the kitchen. No one cares. Da, da, da, da, da. You don't dunk. I mean, we have, you know, a lot of people still holding onto that. And my argument has always been, if you have the, you know, financial resources to do so in time, you can support both. You don't have to pick one better than the other. You can appreciate a really well played basketball game by a women's team that takes nothing away from an incredible men's game. And I've never understood why we can't just agree on that. And I've spent my life speaking all these Rotary clubs to try to get people to watch. I mean, boy, there's not one game that goes by where we have great crowds. I mean, my whole career, when we've had a great crowd at Drake, had sellouts. We've had sellouts before Caitlin. A few of them we have certainly. Now this is crazy world where I'm not so incredibly grateful because, I mean, I've played when no one's there, we've coached when a few people are there. And my mission is always just like, just respect each of them. And I think we're getting closer. I think, you know, a young woman like Caitlin is certainly transcending so much, still getting, you know, unnecessary hate, I suppose, in some ways just the whole women's game. But I feel like if enough of us just keep saying, hey, you know, just appreciate them both the games for what they are, I think the game can really grow both of them. You know, one thing I've always not liked my whole career, whether I played or whether I was a young coach, the minute our team had a big win and the men's side didn't, well, you should play for the boys. They could use you. Maybe Lisa should coach those men, those Bulldogs. And I was always so defensive at that. I said, no, no, the guys are playing. They had a tough loss, and Lisa's doing a great job. What is that? Is that a compliment? Is it a detriment to be a woman? Because you're saying, like, the woman's game isn't good enough, so therefore you should go to the men's, or the men didn't win, so they're less than because the women did. That has always very much perplexed me.
- [30:41]
Chantelle Jennings
Well, it's sort of that those. I don't even know if you can Call that a backhanded compliment?
- [30:44]
Jan Jensen
Yeah, it just is like. And I think they are. I know that they were, you know, the boosters or whatever, but that went back to my way back. It started like, we can love both. You can support both if you have the financial. And that's why I just feel, you know, so blessed to be in a time and to happen to be the team that is living in these amazing sellouts and people are interested. I just. I could get choked up. I mean, just about every game I do of just like, wow, you know, it's a moment in time, and I'm not worrying about where it's going. I'm not worried about where it's been. Just trying to enjoy it. Because 20 years ago, I don't think anybody could have imagined that any women's team would be sold out at home and on the road. You know, it's crazy.
- [31:32]
Chantelle Jennings
Looking at the growth of the game over the last 20 years, you can point to teams and players, you know, UConn's 111 game win streak, South Carolina's win streak at home with that freshie class.
- [31:44]
Jan Jensen
Unreal.
- [31:45]
Chantelle Jennings
But I think sort of this moment right now feels different because you have NIL intersecting with the growth in terms of tv, media rights, contract, and sort of more of an understanding for everyone around that and what that means and bringing more money and attention to the game. And I think even the bubble season, sort of the conversation from that tournament, sort of what that exposed about the NCAA and all of these things sort of cresting at a time when Caitlyn is obviously a huge name, but you have Angel Reese at lsu, you have juju Watkins at ufc, you have these stars in the game that are. Their teams are drawing fans just like Iowa is, but they alone as well are drawing fans. And so I think, you know, that is a great transition into sort of talking about the growth of the game. Last year, going through the tournament, Iowa, last year's tournament, 20, 50 years from now, whatever women's basketball looks like at that point, I think we'll look at the 2023 NCAA tournament as a turning point. But for Iowa, as you guys are going through this run, Caitlin's playing amazingly, Monica's playing amazingly, Gabby's on like a heater.
- [32:53]
Jan Jensen
Yeah.
- [32:53]
Chantelle Jennings
From range like 65% through several games. Like, were there any specific moments that you can recall, even starting back, I guess, in the Big Ten tournament into that tournament title? Yeah, the march to the title game that you were like, we're playing on kind of a different plane. Right now, like, we've been really good.
- [33:14]
Jan Jensen
But we're sort of right. You know, I thought the second half of that conference season, we maybe hit a setback. We didn't have many, but we would grow from it. We didn't let it, like, oh, you know, like, maybe we're not that good. It was like, okay, reprogram fix, do this a little better. And then I think when Caitlin hit that shot against Indiana, you know, that was just added to her lore. But it was also like, wait a second, then that timeout before, you know, you practice last second shots and everything's got to go right. Every coach will tell you that, you know, from Mike Kzyzewski to Gino Auriyama, all the way up or down. Like, you practice it, it can happen. But they got to defend you just a certain way. You got to have everybody doing everything perfectly. And that pass has got to be perfect. And then you got to hit the shot right? So the huddle was really calm. The kids were all of them. And then when Caitlin hit it, I mean, the. I don't know, Carver's gotten really loud, Loud. But that moment when that shot hit interrupted. It was as if it was just like euphoria and like craziness. But at that moment, I think you. Everybody was like, wait, that was special. This is special. And then, you know, Lisa had talked a lot about, you know, this moment, this time, why not us, the kind of. That team of destiny. But when we went through the Big Ten tournament, you know, those first games are always scary, you know, because you're playing a team that's played and, you know, we played Purdue, and then we get through that, you know, the second game, you know, it's a little closer. And then we played Ohio State. And I have never had a game like that in my mind. And I remember the coaches, Jenny, Elise, all of them, it was like, it was flawless for the most part. And I. I mean, for lack of a better word, and I'm never one to oversell it, but it was in defense of Ohio State. They were. Did a tremendous job. They were hurt. They were. They had to use so much energy to beat Indiana, who was great, but our team was just operating, like, unbelievable.
- [35:23]
Chantelle Jennings
I was there.
- [35:24]
Jan Jensen
It was just like, I mean, Caitlyn's passes and she had a triple double, didn't she, that game or something? And Gabby was just hitting shots, and it was like midway through the third quarter, we were up really, really big. And I never, ever like thinking, you know, that I'm always worried we're going to lose. I just sat Lisa down. I said, I don't care what happens the rest of our career. Sit down, look around at this place and look at the score and watch them. They were having the most fun I've ever seen a team have. And we've had a lot of fun. And then we just blitzed it, right. I don't know what the score was. And that moment I thought, okay, do you, do you dare to. What is this team doing? And so that's where, I mean, you knew we had the potential, but you still, you got to play at every, every, every one of those NCAA tournament games. But I'd say Indiana and that run through the Big Ten tournament and the way in which we won that Big Ten game, even though we knew Ohio State didn't have all of it, but the way we attacked it, I think that gave us a lot of confidence rolling. But I mean, it wasn't easy. We took every bit we had to get out of here, out of our arena with Georgia. So that's where I would say, well.
- [36:37]
Chantelle Jennings
And I think that Indiana game was special because you guys had lost them a few weeks earlier. And so you're talking about those bounce back moments to sort of regain that confidence. And I pulled up that Ohio State Iowa score because I don't have every single score memorized, but yeah, you guys won. 105, 72. I was gonna say it was like a 35 win. If I remember correctly, Caitlin had 30 points, 10 rebounds, 17 assists and two turnovers.
- [37:01]
Jan Jensen
It's crazy.
- [37:01]
Chantelle Jennings
Monica finished with 26 points and seven rebounds. Gabby was perfect from range three of three.
- [37:07]
Jan Jensen
And there was that moment, I think, where you knew was a pretty special team.
- [37:10]
Chantelle Jennings
Right?
- [37:11]
Jan Jensen
But I mean, just like this year, every run, and I think everybody would tell you that you got to have a little luck, you got to be good. Yeah, but you gotta. Something's gotta go. You're right. I mean, I was talking, you know, Bob Starkey for lsu. You know, how they won that game at Utah. I mean, it was like the kid hits the free throws that they normally hit. You know, it's like they're not there. You know, it just, it's. Sometimes it just takes an unforeseen thing, you know, if Caitlin doesn't hit that crazy shot. What's our psyche? What's our. And that's the beauty of sport. It's the beauty of breaks in life. The ones you create, the ones you get. And I just feel like that, you know, it kind of set us up for that, that run and the kids kept confident. And we just had some really, you know, great leadership and really some great moments for other people to step up alongside Caitlin. And Gabby was one of them, certainly when she heated at the right time.
- [38:06]
Chantelle Jennings
Yeah, well. And I think just, you know, where women's college basketball is right now, the high school game has risen, The AAU game has risen. Team USA has done more with its youth teams. I think just overall, the quality coming in, and I'm sure you see it on the recruiting trail, it's improved. Coaching has improved, the game has improved. And so when you're talking about luck, I think when there's more talent, that talent isn't all concentrated at maybe one or two schools. You see more often that maybe the best team in the country isn't going to win the national title. Where for a long time in women's basketball, because all of the best players were at one or two schools.
- [38:45]
Jan Jensen
Right.
- [38:46]
Chantelle Jennings
Or, you know, all four number one seeds are going to be in the Final Four because all the best players are there. Now you're seeing it spread out a little bit more. I think that leaves sort of the element of magic a bit more in the women's game that maybe. I guess my big prediction is I think this tournament is going to be.
- [39:03]
Jan Jensen
Yeah.
- [39:03]
Chantelle Jennings
Wild. And I think also the fact that the first and second rounds, like you said, Georgia was a tough game to get out of here, but, you know, every team is raising their level.
- [39:11]
Jan Jensen
Yes.
- [39:11]
Chantelle Jennings
And so typically, when a top seed hosts that first and second round, you're not going to beat that team on their home court.
- [39:18]
Jan Jensen
Right.
- [39:18]
Chantelle Jennings
But now, because the level, those games are tighter.
- [39:21]
Jan Jensen
I mean, look at. I mean, look what USC did at Stanford. I mean, Kansas State has won at our place. Right. People are beating each other on the floors where once used to be so daunting, and it was now. You're exactly right. There's no easy pass, really, because there is enough certainly great players around with really great coaches. And that's what makes this tournament one of the greatest, because it's one and done. Like most of the time, the. The pros, you get that series, right. The championship in the NBA is out of seven. So that you can be a little bit more, you know, you're off a game. It's not for always the. All the marbles, but in this, the pressure on every one game in that tournament, it is very, very great, the pressure, but the rewards are also so amazingly great.
- [40:15]
Chantelle Jennings
So then you guys make this magical run to the title game. You Lose to lsu. How did you guys coming back from that balance, sort of an ability to say, look at what we've done. You know, Caitlin said her freshman year, the goal is a Final Four, right? You know, that was from the jump. She said that. And to get there by her junior season, that's a win, right? But it was also a loss, and that hurts. So how do you balance sort of both of those feelings and then turn the page to this season?
- [40:43]
Jan Jensen
I think Lisa led so well and had such eloquent things to say. And I feel like one of my favorite things, Lisa said, and we're bummed. Obviously, we lost it, but you still had a lot of pride, right? And we were talking late at night after that, that game, and she said, you know, I do believe that we were still the team of destiny. She's like, I think we might have been, though, just destined to be number two. And she said, I think the way our team is handling that and showing that you can still be proud of coming up a little bit short. And we discussed how, you know, it's so. And we're not. I mean, I'm not saying give us pat on the back, we got silver. But it's so much sometimes that there can be such devastation if you don't get the Olympic gold medal. So much devastation if you come up that. That little bit short, that sometimes it's okay to say, you know what, on that given day, they were better. We gave all we had, and you tip your hat, give them the high five, and you celebrate all that happened up until that, you know, that moment. I think that's just a healthy way to live because we had so many blessings, really. I mean, most any team in the country would take playing in the championship game right at the beginning of the year. If you said, I don't know if you'll win it, but you want to, you know, 50, 50, you might lose it. You know, you're going to say, I'll take it, right?
- [42:12]
Chantelle Jennings
Take those off.
- [42:13]
Jan Jensen
One time after we got home, my daughter. We have a son, And Jack, he's 16. My daughter's 13. Her name's Janie. And that night, you know, quiver, lip, or I think just even maybe when we got back, you know, just your kids, and you're like, ugh. And you could just see she was sad for me, right? And the team. And I think I had one of those God moments as a parent. And I was just talking to her about, you know, how much fun we had on that run. I said, how many days Were we together? Yeah. So how many hours in a day? 24. And how many minutes, you know, in the hours? So 14,000 some minutes together. But I said, so we're gonna let 40 minutes take away from all those. And I think there was lessons, you know, for me as a coach and as a mom in there. So. Yeah, I mean, I think you just. I think we. We try to coach with gratitude. And you. You try to always teach. You try to, you know, instill in your kids the pride, the you working your hardest. There's no guarantees. And then you got to live it, you know, you got to live it when, you know it's just so much easier to be number one. It's so much more fun. Right. But it can be so shallow if that's all you're going for. So I think we just celebrated it. And we knew the shortcomings, knew they were better on that particular night. I mean, sometimes it happens. Their team shot amazing. They never shot that well. The kid off the bench had a moment, and that's where they had their moment. The Friday night before. We had our moment. Right. Is like. So it can cut both ways.
- [43:47]
Chantelle Jennings
And that's a hard thing to game plan against.
- [43:49]
Jan Jensen
Yeah, you can't. And the turning around from that point emotion from being the underdogs to now maybe the favorites and. And you're exhausted. You know, one thing that was kind of frustrating that we never talked about till after was so unfortunate, though, like the. The drug testing that I know needs to happen. But like, Kate Martin. Kate Martin, of all people, after that game, completely drained. Well, she got selected. Nope. After the South Carolina. Oh, I'm going to come back to that. When we drove home after that game, we've had so many great Way back at Missouri Valley Days at Drake, winning the conference championship. When you get back to your hotel, it's so great. Bands are playing, people are there. After that South Carolina game, our hotel was. I'll never forget the moment. It was incredible. The families. I mean, thousands of people. Kate could not go to the bathroom. They would not let her leave NCAA. She didn't get back till 3 in the morning. She missed. She had family there. She just could not go to the bathroom because then it became, you know, like. But the protocol of that. And so she missed that moment because we had to make sure. And that's where I'm like, go sometimes, you know, I didn't know this till later, but so then that euphoric moment, exhausted turns into like, I'm by myself, everybody's there. So she doesn't get to go to sleep till that point. Right. Not why we lost the game, but I mean, there's just so many things you're turning around and then you got of focus and you're going into that game. It's just. Just things. Right. And the way, you know, she had to kind of handle that and did and. But it's just if there was one thing that I'm sad about, I'm more sad about that than I am. We didn't win because Kate is just an ultimate selfless leader. Her family, I'm biased. My spouse is her biological aunt. But all the people there, and you can never recreate that moment. So I was like, oh, if we could just win, that'll be there. But then you don't. Then you're disappointed. Now there's a lesson in there. Right. And Kate's fine or whatever. But that's the one thing I thought, ah, that was just such a time in our lives. Because the Hawkeye faithful and the people who see you through, to have them be so excited and hugging. I don't know how many hugs I gave that night. People just. I mean, David, you know, had just beat Goliath. Right. And that was probably one of my things that I wish that she could have experienced, you know, so if you talk about a disappointment, it's just that was kind of one of those unfair things, you know? You know, the game, we could have played better, but that one, you know, she just couldn't. Couldn't go to the bathroom. Right. When you sweat that much and it takes you a couple hours, you miss a lot. Yeah. Bummer hopping.
- [46:31]
Chantelle Jennings
I've already monopolized a lot of your time. That's quite the story to end on. I had one more question relating to the final four. Super important one.
- [46:38]
Jan Jensen
Yeah.
- [46:39]
Chantelle Jennings
You and Lisa show up with the same outfit for the final four games.
- [46:43]
Jan Jensen
Can you believe it?
- [46:44]
Chantelle Jennings
Well, that's my question for you. But I'm maybe one of my favorite quotes I've ever heard in a press conference. Lisa said something like, you know, other coaches have stylists and makeup people. I've got a revolution on Flatiron in my hotel room. But, you know, I think of my friends, and I have some friends who I'm like, you know, 50% of their closet is stuff that might be in my closet.
- [47:07]
Jan Jensen
Right, right.
- [47:08]
Chantelle Jennings
You know, other friends, I'm like, 10% of the stuff might be in my closet. You've known Lisa a very long time. What we didn't get to is that she coached you at Drake your senior year when you led the nation in scoring with almost 30 points a game. Another. You know, we're talking about great scores today. But quick.
- [47:22]
Jan Jensen
Yeah.
- [47:23]
Chantelle Jennings
In terms of your overlap of your fashion, how much of her closet is your closet? How much of your closet is her closet?
- [47:30]
Jan Jensen
Very little, actually.
- [47:31]
Chantelle Jennings
So how does this happen?
- [47:32]
Jan Jensen
Yeah, I mean, I probably enjoy. I enjoy fashion. I enjoy dressing up for games. And Lisa, like, I wouldn't say she doesn't, but that's not. Like, I like to go shopping, but, like, they're probably 10. I mean, like, you know, the suits, like, we all have a black suit, right? We have like. But it's amazing. Like, the last. I bet three of the last four games, like, I might choose to wear like, a black suit with a little white trim. She might. At that particular game, she's wearing, like, a black suit with a white shirt. So it kind of were flowing. One day I decided to wear a plaid, like a jacket with black pants. Her pants were plaid. Like, it's so bizarre. So it's not the same, but we kind of blend. Yeah.
- [48:20]
Chantelle Jennings
You're talking.
- [48:20]
Jan Jensen
We kind of like, it's just like. It's not like she comes out in like a bright green suit and I have like a fighting, you know, yellow, orangey thing that's like, whoa, put your sunglasses on. You know, we're kind of like, definitely in the more classic. But I wouldn't say that she would have. If you went in my closet, she probably wouldn't pick out a lot of my suits.
- [48:41]
Chantelle Jennings
Got it.
- [48:41]
Jan Jensen
But that particular game, you know, you're on the road, so you're trying to plan it, but you're. I mean, we'd never been there before, so we're not like, okay, we're gonna make it to the final Four. Right. It's like a suit that was like, I probably had worn that one. I don't know. And so she had a black one too. Or she sent. Maybe her. Like, she had her kids say, get me a suit. And they happened to get a double breasted black, you know, the glass. But it's so funny that it kind of happens more. And, you know, we have like, I don't know what that was in Iowa shirts. You would not believe how many times we show up to recruiting with like the same, you know, gold with black trim with a little gray on it. Same thing.
- [49:23]
Chantelle Jennings
Jan, this sounds like a great recruiting pitch. I think you can say we are so in lockstep as a coaching staff. We're only on the Court. That's right.
- [49:32]
Jan Jensen
Recruits, are you listening? We're in sync, but it's. It's fun. I think it is. Maybe over all the years, you know, Jenny Fitzgerald, she's been coaching with us three that long. And Lisa's might have shared this with you, but I don't know, it was for maybe her and her husband's 25th. Some type flowers. He was bringing in flowers to her. And so. And Lisa's like, oh. And so Jenny yells. She said, where am I? I've been with you guys for 24 because you just are like cohort. You are. We've been together through, you know, so many. So many things. And I think we're all probably most grateful for that, that nobody knows what's going to happen this year or after. But last year happened, and we're just so grateful, I mean, for everybody associated with our program. But when we came to Iowa, Lisa said, you know, I want to go to Final Four. Maybe take longer than maybe, you know, we wanted to or other people. But the ride has been amazing. I mean, the journey, our Drake days. So to be able to share that with Jenny and Lisa and coaching the final game with my twin suit Lisa, I mean, it didn't get much better. It could have. We could have won that one. But I'd say it was a heck of a win. Everything taken into account. I really wouldn't trade a thing.
- [50:49]
Chantelle Jennings
Well, Jan, I think I could talk.
- [50:50]
Jan Jensen
To you all afternoon, but it was fun. Thanks. Thanks for covering. Thanks for all you do for women's hoops. And it just keeps moving the needle, and we've moved it. Now we got to make sure it doesn't go back. So thanks for all you do for all the teams, not just. Not just ours.
- [51:03]
Chantelle Jennings
Well, thanks for your time today. I'm very excited to see what you and Lisa show up with on the sidelines.
- [51:09]
Jan Jensen
We don't talk. I mean, that might be. That'll probably be the time we look total polar opposites.
- [51:13]
Zena Keda
Always fascinating to hear about a team's run through these big pressure moments, these huge stages from the perspective of their coaches, the ones that are doing the X's and O's. Appreciate you, coach Dan Jensen, for giving us some insight into that, and good luck to your team for the rest of the way. I know a lot of people are excited to watch what Iowa does throughout this season, especially as Caitlin Clark closes in on what seems to be her last season at Iowa. Shantelle, great interview. Thank you for getting that set up. Now, before I let you all Go. I just want to make sure that I update you on the moves that we've seen and let you know that these moves have been broken down on the athletic. You can definitely reach them. And I'm talking about WNBA free agency. I'm telling you as soon as we finish recording on Monday for our Tuesday episode, Nneca Guima K signed a one year deal to the Seattle Storm, making the Pacific Northwest even deeper. Of course they already had Skylar Diggin Smith sign in free agency and then Neca Guimike joining and now they're already joining Ezzy McBegor and also Jewel Lloyd. So strong presence there showing up for the Seattle Storm. They still have some youth that they've got to develop and get going in order to be able to have the depth that they need to make a run in the west, especially against the standard team, right, the Las Vegas Aces. But you just added solid defense, solid defense out of Neca McKay as well as offense. I mean she averaged what, 19 points or so last season. And so you've got some size, you've got some great defense, you got some players in their prime and you got some players with some things to prove as well. So that always gives you an extra edge. I think some other ones that kind of stood out to us, just regular extensions as well. Las Vegas Aces signed Candace Parker back to a one year deal. Looking to have her come back off of that injury that shut her down last season. Will be very interesting to see what she does and this could potentially be her last year. So this could be a potential farewell tour. I do not want that. So I'm not, I'm not gonna, you know, push that further down the line. But this is great that they were able to keep her on the team and keep that core intact for the Las Vegas Aces. Los Angeles Sparks signed Lexi Brown to an extension if you guys remember, Lexi Brown had an illness that she was very vulnerable and open and transparent about on Twitter last year expressing how difficult it was for her to one have to not be able to finish the season, some of the health issues that she experienced. But she's back. She's I believe she's playing AU Athletes Unlimited as well as, you know, being able to play for the Sparks. So very exciting for her. She was signed through the 2026 season. Duanna Bonner re signed with Connecticut Suns. So that team is still looking formidable and of course Brianna Jones had already came back as well and Alyssa Thomas is there. So yeah, that's again, I think someone that's definitely, definitely going to be a top finisher in the Eastern Conference and who the New York Liberty will probably end up going up against to get to the Finals. Now some interesting moves were made. One had to do with the Chicago sky. So they signed diamond of Shields to a one year deal. Great. But they then traded away some interesting folks. And when I say interesting folks, I mean one person and that is Kalia Copper. Kalia Kopper was and is the franchise player. Right. You look at what they were building, particularly Kalia Kopper and Dana Evans beside each other. I mean that was supposed to be one of the nastiest, scariest front courts. And then they had a new coach added Teresa Weatherspoon. You were just excited for what was to come in Chicago. And then the news comes. On February 6, Chicago sky traded away Kalia Kopper and the rights to Morgan Burch to the Phoenix Mercury for Mikayla Onyinwerre, Brianna Turner and a few draft picks. Now the thing about the trade, one, it's weird because again Kalia was supposed to be a franchise player. But two, it's strange because of a particular rivalry. Kalia Copper is very well known for the staredown photo of oh God, I don't know the century. Kaliyah Copper against Sophie Cunningham in just all of WNBA season last year, the year before, in the fight, in the, in the playoffs. It's always just been a thing, right. And it's been fun. It's been one of those little rivalries that you appreciate in the sport. You look forward to seeing them play up against each other. Well now they're teammates and what's going to be very interesting is seeing how Kalia Copper comes into the mix with a Tarasi. They also got Akia Nurse and you know she'll play on the wing as well. Yeah, this is just going to be a very interesting pick. I'm very interested to see what Ben and Sabrina and Chantelle think this looks like. But what I will say the Phoenix Mercury have an edge and if this is a win now situation, which it feels like, especially with the Natasha Cloud joining in and Kalia Copper, they are making the most of what could be, you know, Diana Taurasi's potentially last year or not, we don't know. But still very, very interesting where this all landed. But we shall see. And then the last big splash that I will mention that's been very curious is Elena Deldon. Elena Deldawn was offered to be cord and essentially be given a max deal and remain a part of the Washington Mystics and she decided to not accept she is taking a year off or potentially, they're not exactly sure, but basically they're saying that she is going to be taking some time off. Her return is unclear, but she's taking a break from basketball and they're not sure when she'll return. She doesn't play overseas and you know, she was a free agent this summer. She had done her supermax contract and they were about to core her and now there was talks about her wanting to potentially go to Phoenix. They don't have any more room. Talks about potentially trying to go to Vegas. They don't have any more room. And so it was her having to carry Washington alongside her teammates Brittany Sykes, Shakira Austin and Ariel Atkins. Now, after being offered a max deal, she decided that she is going to actually take some time off. So don't know what's going to happen there. She doesn't have her teammates. Again, Natasha Cloud went to Phoenix and now Christie Toliver is a coach. So she would have been there trying to figure it out with Ariel Atkins, Brittany Sykes and Shakira Austin, which isn't a bad group to do it with. Just not the same as having particularly the the other key player of Cloud alongside her. So we'll see what happens there. But those are the updates in the WNBA free agency world. And then last but not least, wanted to make sure you all knew, if you didn't see it already on Twitter, that Mark Schindler, aka @mgschindler, will be joining our squad here at the Athletic to help us with some bracketology during the rest of this NCAA college season. He's going to give us all of the insight that we need leading up to the madness of March. And I'm so excited to have him in our ranks. I don't know how, I don't know if this guy sleeps. He is constantly, constantly watching games, constantly breaking things down, explaining to us why one player is doing something better than another player, why they're worthy of certain accolades. Whatever it is, it's just fun to watch his breakdowns and his explanations and he clips so well. So definitely go give him a follow on Twitter and just know or on X and know he will be joining our show more regularly and he'll be writing on our site. So yay to Mark Schindler joining our squad. Very, very pumped to have him. All right, all right, man. We have gone long enough, folks. There is a lot of basketball to watch. So let me go ahead and let y'all go. Appreciate y'all tuning in again thank you Chantelle. Thank you, Coach Jensen. I am Zena Keda encouraging you to keep listening, keep learning and keep loving the game because that's the only way we're gonna continue to grow it. All right now until next time.
- [59:52]
Jan Jensen
As.
- [59:53]
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Jan Jensen
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- [61:20]
Marc Maron
Hey folks, it's Marc Maron from WTF. It's been more than 15 years now, and I'm still talking to all kinds of people in my garage every week. Sometimes it's Bill Burr, sometimes it's Ariana Grande. She just looks at me because she's always going like, dad, it's not that big a deal. Yeah, I go, sorry, I lost my temper. I go, I still love you. You know Daddy has issues.
- [61:42]
Aura Host
Are you afraid of of death?
- [61:44]
Jan Jensen
Well, I don't know.
- [61:44]
Marc Maron
I think about it all the time.
- [61:46]
Zena Keda
How are we here already?
- [61:47]
Marc Maron
Listen to WTF with Marc Maron twice a week on your favorite podcast app. Or get more WTF with a WTF plus subscription. Just go to wtfpod.com and click on WTF.
- [62:02]
Jan Jensen
Acast helps creators launch, grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com.