← No Offseason: The Athletic Women's Basketball Show
No Offseason: The Athletic Women's Basketball Show
The Athletic's 2025 Women's Basketball Awards
00:57:55
Loading summary
Transcript111 lines
- [00:00]
Zena Keda
As a salesperson, the search for the right buyer or buying groups can feel like you're endlessly sifting through leads and hoping they're ready to buy. Thankfully, LinkedIn Sales Navigator is more than just a tool, it's your strategic sales partner. LinkedIn Sales Navigator is a sales intelligence platform that helps professionals effectively prospect and engage high value customers, drive higher revenue and increase sales performance. Sales Navigator helps you target the right buyers, surface key signals such as job changes or when which accounts you should prioritize and shows you hidden allies so you can find those buyers that are most likely to convert. Whether you're looking for new clients or strengthening relationships of current accounts, LinkedIn Sales Navigator has a new AI feature designed to help sellers find the right people and get right to the right conversations, all at scale. Fueled by LinkedIn's 1 billion-member platform, Sales Navigator gives you the most up to date first party data, enabling you to unlock conversations with the people that matter. Ready to get right to the right conversations? Try LinkedIn Sales Navigator now with a 60 day free trial at LinkedIn.combaseballshow that is LinkedIn.combaseballshow for a 60 day free trial. Terms and conditions apply.
- [01:16]
Chantelle Jennings
Love looks different for everyone, especially when it comes to all the ways you treat and celebrate yourself. I'm a big hammock head, Sunshine a hammock, a paperback western. That's my kind of everyday indulgence. And you can gift yourself the everyday indulgence of extraordinary Hydration with Liquid IV powered by LIV hydro science. Visit liquidiv.com to fall in love with flavors like the zesty new Hydration Multiplier Sugar free Raspberry Lemonade and use code no dunks to save 20% off your first order. Liquid IV is easy and convenient. You just tear, pour and enjoy. It's my go to when I'm getting a pump in or handing out buckets, but it's great for staying hydrated during long days, enjoying the outdoors or any other time you need some hydration in your body. Liquid IV offers so many true to fruit flavors, whether they be hydration multipliers like acai berry, lemon, lime and pina colada, or sugar free like raspberry lemonade, white peach and rainbow sherbet. The flavors are always true to fruit, break the mold and your own ritual. Just one stick and 16 ounces of water hydrates better than water alone because Liquid IV is is powered by LIV Hydro Science, an optimized ratio of electrolytes, essential vitamins and clinically tested nutrients that turn ordinary water into extraordinary hydration. You're getting three times the electrolytes of the leading sports drink, plus eight essential vitamins and nutrients. And Liquid IV is always non gmo, vegan, gluten free, dairy free and soy free. So treat yourself to extraordinary hydration from Liquid IV. Get 20% off your first order at Liquid IV when you go to LiquidIV.com and use code NO DUNKS at checkout. That's 20% off your first order with code nodunks@liquidiv.com Summer is almost here and.
- [03:18]
Ben Pickman
There'S no better place to go for outside furniture than Wayfair. Wayfair's huge selection of outdoor essentials will help you make your outdoor space more comfortable, functional and most importantly, more you. Get your outdoor space rated today so you can enjoy it all season long. When you have kids, they love to be outside so you gotta be out there to watch them. From Wayfair, you can have outdoor sofas, maybe a set of chairs, a gazebo, some umbrellas because it's really hot down here in the South. No matter the need. Wayfair's huge selection of home items makes it easy to find exactly what's right for you. There's something for every style and every home, no matter your space or budget. Wayfair makes it easy to tackle your summer home goals with endless inspiration for every space and budget, including the outdoors. Free and easy delivery even on the big stuff. No more huge delivery fees for patio furniture. Get big stuff like patio sets, gazebos, hot tubs, outdoor dining sets and more shipped free. Find all your outdoor must haves from seating to pool lounges to trampolines all in one convenient place. Shop a huge selection of outdoor furniture online this summer. Get outside with wayfair. Head to wayfair.com right now. That's W A Y F A I R.com Wayfair Every style, every home.
- [04:52]
Sabrina Merchant
For the Athletic. I'm Zena Keda and this is the Athletic Women's Basketball Show. Oh, welcome to the Athletic Women's Basketball show where we are here to talk all things women's hoops. Whether you're a die hard fan that eats, sleeps and breathes basketball or you're a casual fan figuring out how in the heck did Ohio State slide to that basket at the end of their game. Don't worry, you're in the right place. Don't go anywhere else. Make sure you subscribe to this pod wherever you get your pods to stay up to date with us. And also subscribe to the Athletic on the website because you won't want to miss out on all that year round in depth coverage for the game you love. Joining me here today. We got a four square, y'all. Ben Pickman, Chantelle Jennings and Sabrina Merchant are all with us today and we're going to have a little fun. We're going to let you in on some of the behind the scenes chatter as the season is wrapping up, awards are starting to come out. This is all before, of course, March Madness takes place, but we're going to do is follow suit with what the NCAA does in a few weeks. They're going to put out their winners for Player of the Year, Coach of the Year, Freshman of the Year, among some other awards. But here at the Athletic, we already made our picks. And if you've been on the site, you already know that. So here's how it went down recently. All of our women's basketball staff, they included me, selected players and coaches for those very same awards who we internally think we should wear the crowns. Now on the site, we're going to be rolling out the winners. And here on the show today, we figured, especially while you guys are trying to fill out your brackets, trying to figure out the ins and outs of everything, that we would bring you into our minds, deep into the cerebral exercise that we took to figure out who our personal picks were. And I'm gonna just be real. This was hard. Like really, really hard. So specifically we're gonna be talking about National Player of the Year, Freshman of the Year, and Coach of the Year. It might get spicy. At least I hope. All right, so without further ado, let's go going with our big conversation, Player of the Year. The official athletic selection was released and the staff overall selected. Drumroll, please. I don't know if you guys can hear that. Juju Watkins out of usc, but interestingly enough, we actually chose her as a group. We all selected juju Watkins collectively. So I have to actually go back into the annals to start this conversation because just last week Ben and Chantel, you guys debated Player of the Year and Lauren Betts was in that conversation. For some reason, we all landed on juju Watkins. And I have to imagine a particular USC UCLA game may have been a part of that or may have not have been. So, Ben, I'll start with you. Did you shift at all from your juju Watkins pick from the last time you wrote about this on the site?
- [08:08]
Evan
In short, Xena? No, I did not. And that is not to say that I am some genius among our four box here on this podcast for picking the best player in the country to win the best player in the country award a week before the season ended, because that would not be the case. But I've been pretty firm with juju Watkins being my player of the year at least down the stretch of this regular season. Again, 24 points per game. You know, her numbers are slightly down from her freshman season, but if you look at it, she's more efficient than she was last year. And you know, frankly, like she carries the load so much on a night to night basis for usc. And if you factor in some of the big games in the brightest moments, not even just, you know, what happened on Saturday night against ucla, but think about their first matchup against ucla. Like time and time again, it seems like juju really does show up both on offense and also defensively, right, with blocked shots, with timely steals. She plays with a basketball IQ that I think few other players in the country have. Just knowing when she can afford to foul, knowing when to help, like help her teammates on defense. There's just some intangibles that she brings. Lindsey Gottlieb, obviously her head coach touts her time and time again as often as she can as the best player in the country. It's not to say this wasn't a close call because I think as you mentioned, Lauren Betts was in that conversation. Hannah Hidalgo, paige Beckers from UConn as well. But I've been high on the Juju Watkins train, I guess riding that throughout the end of the regular season and Saturday really was the punctuation. It was like the exclamation mark for me in her candidacy, why I had her first on my ballot here.
- [09:40]
Sabrina Merchant
So Ben basically has that Snoop Dogg like juju Watkins tracksuit that showed up earlier this season hiding somewhere in his closet.
- [09:49]
Evan
Do you think I could pull that off, Xena or No, absolutely.
- [09:52]
Sabrina Merchant
You just got to get the right footwear and we know you have good shoes. So I think that that's easy. That's not the question in play here. But I'm happy you mentioned the other people in the conversation because, Chantel, you were on the Lauren Betts train for a little bit. I actually really loved your reasoning for this because you mentioned that after seeing how the absence of a Camilla Cardoso is for the South Carolina Gamecocks, just how much of a magnet she was inside and how much that's impacted the Gamecocks this year with her no longer being there. It actually helped kind of support and bolster your argument for how important Lauren is to the UCLA Bruins. Now, why was it between that article and now what happened? What shifted? That kind of boosted juju over Lauren Betts for you?
- [10:45]
F
Yeah, I mean, for the sake of the article, you know, like, Ben and I chose two different sides and I was leaning towards Betts at the time, but it wasn't like I was ready to send my vote in and sort of make it known as like, Lauren Betts is 100%. I can't. I won't change my mind on this. She is the best player, full stop sort of thing. I think, especially after seeing South Carolina, like you said, seeing a South Carolina team without Camila Cardoso that added really good freshmen this year that I think all of us really, really respect, it just sort of reinforced something in my mind of like, I think it's easier when you see a player who has the ball in their hands so much, like a wing or a player who's bringing the ball up the floor like a point guard, and the number of decisions they can make. Like, they might have a million decisions to make during a game and they make 12 that are really great, and that's what really sticks in your mind. And a center in Lauren's position obviously should have the ball in her hands every possession, but doesn't, as we've seen.
- [11:41]
Sabrina Merchant
Girl, don't even get me started. Do not get me started with my.
- [11:44]
F
Frustrations with that there's fewer opportunities for her to make those good decisions. And so I think it was just. It's sort of like the gravity of how a player like Lauren in her position, with her skill set both physical and what she has learned, obviously how that can impact a game. And I like how Lindsey Gottlieb puts it. A lot of times when she talks about juju, she talks about her impact on winning. And I think when Lauren Betts is at her best and when juju Watkins is at her best, their impact on winning for their teams is both incredibly high, as is everyone else in this conversation. But ultimately, what it came down to for me was like, yes, but juju Watkins has proven in those moments when winning is the most important, that she has the greater impact. And so I think for me, seeing her against UCLA and she has the Bruins number, she just destroys them every time she faces them. Corey Close probably has juju themed nightmares at this point. And then it's like, oh, you also get two more years of her. But it just ultimately swayed me. And I know, Sabrina, for you, you were also sort of, you needed that game to make your final decision so Ben can be Sort of the seer in our group who is ahead of the curve here. And Sabrina, and were people who maybe needed to have a few more facts, I guess, or a little bit more in front of us to, to make that final decision on the penultimate day of the season.
- [13:07]
Sabrina Merchant
But my question too is like both of you now have mentioned, so Ben, you laid out juju's stats and one of the things you laid out is just like her year over year progress and being able to improve her game year over year. Lauren Betts, that's something that's been talked about as well. Her ability to shoot free throws, her ability to finish in the paint, her ability to pass, all of that has gotten better year over year. And I'm wondering, as you guys make these decisions and you know, thinking nationally as the NCAA is making these decisions, can you factor year over year growth into these type of conversations or do you have to take the day like the product that you see this year in front of you when you make.
- [13:49]
G
That assessment for player of the year? I don't consider year over year growth at all. I think it's might be a useful fact just to include in like the overall narrative when we're talking about a player's career. But for this particular award, I just, I think it's very much of the moment, right? Like sure, we don't have a most improved player in college basketball, right. And if that were the case, then this is something that I'd look at. But you know, it, it doesn't diminish juju Watkins candidacy that she was already a first team all American last year and she had, you know, theoretically less to add to her bag than some other players, which admittedly I don't think that's the case. I think even as a first team all American Laster, she has gotten significantly better. But no, to me it's just what is a player doing in this particular moment? Maybe like, no, actually I don't even think I consider like within the year improvement. It's just a matter of what do they look like over the course of the season? What kind of performances can they put on throughout the year, right. Like we're talking non conference through Big Ten play. I mean, if we were talking about Big Ten player of the year versus national player of the year, I think it'd be a much easier conversation, honestly, for Watkins over bets and it ended up being for the overall national player of the year. But now I don't, I don't think that specific conversation enters into how I decide national player of the year.
- [14:56]
F
I think it brings context, though. You look at juju and you can look at her stats, obviously, but the role she's playing within her team this year, and I'm not saying her growth from last year to this year, but just how it explains certain stats and then I think also maybe how it makes you think differently about a player. Even when I was writing, I wrote up the piece for her being named our unanimous national player of the year. And I think that even gave me more of an appreciation of this is a player who last year was in a really tough position as a true freshman, surrounded by Ivy League transfers who'd played so long, were so much older than her. And she's sort of like thrust into this position of like lead this team of women who are four years older than you. And now she's in a position that is similar but different in terms of like opposite lead this group of players that is new. Just her role within the team, I think that's sort of year over year when you're looking at it. It gives you more respect for sort of what they're doing within the moment.
- [15:51]
Sabrina Merchant
Okay, well, let's talk about role, because I think that that is something you can say about Hannah Hidalgo. Like, everyone was curious about Hannah Hidalgo's ability to come in and play the same level of tenacity on defense, but particularly the same output on offense with Olivia Miles back into the conversation knowing that the ball was not going to be in her hands as much, knowing that she was going to be more of an off ball player alongside an Olivia Miles. She's actually gotten up, she's gone up in her production. She's gone up in every single aspect or, you know, part of her game. What was it that, you know, basically held Hannah Hidalgo back from being able to be in that national Player of the Year conversation for you guys?
- [16:35]
G
So I had Hannah Hidalgo pretty solidly third in the discussion for national Player of the Year. And you know, part of it is just that she has. Even though I think that she's the bellwether for how Notre Dame is going to perform on a given day. Like they had this stretch where they won every single game by double digits after losing to those Utah and tcu, their Thanksgiving tournament. And the only game where they didn't win by double digits was when Hannah was out. And I think that there's a certain level of energy that she provides. Just that defensive menace crazed energy that she gives, you know, is really important to what Notre Dame is trying to accomplish on both ends of the court. And you look at their recent slump, you know, when they lost two games to Florida State and NC State, Hannah was super inefficient on the offensive end. And I think her performance is like the direct connection to how Notre Dame is going to achieve more so than any other player on their team. The thing is, like, just because she isn't, you know, playing well doesn't mean Notre Dame can't win. Like, I think her greatness is most directly connected with Notre Dame's greatness, but there's just so much other talent on that team. Like, she doesn't have to be the lead initiator all the time because Olivia Miles is there. If she is having an offshooting night, Sonia Citron is there. Like, defensively, they put Sonja Citron on the best wing player. You know, they have so much paint help with Liza Carlin and Maddie Westfield and Lia Tu King and Kate Koval. So it's not like they necessarily rely on Hannah to the extent that USC relies on juju or UCLA relies on Lauren Betts. And so I think just her having that margin for error made it a little harder for me to make her the national player of the year, as opposed to these two players who had so much more on their plate to directly contribute to their team winning or losing versus just looking excellent and not excellent.
- [18:18]
Sabrina Merchant
I do think there's a factor of, like, needing to see the killer instinct in Hannah Hidalgo to take over a game more so more than a juju Watkins has or Lauren Betts has. Don't get me wrong, she absolutely has done that in certain games this season, but not to the same degree, I think, as those other two.
- [18:37]
Evan
And Chantel said the word when she was explaining the juju walking case of context. Right. And I think Sabrina just mapped it out too, that, like, the context of where these players play is. I think, you know, when we're deciding between small factors between them, like, that context plays into Sabrina's logic, it certainly also plays in mine. And if you look at our all American teams, which are also on the site, like, Olivia Miles was a second team All American, whereas there was not another USC player, there was not another UCLA player who made one of those teams. And so, you know, you don't want to take away from a player's greatness because they play with other great players. But if you're deciding between really small margins, like Sabrina said it right, you know, that definitely was a slight differentiating factor. But in this conversation of, you know, great players and how do you determine one's greatness over another. Again, this is not to put down any of the three we've mentioned so far. Like that context does, at least in my mind. And I think it's Sabrina's too. Like, that does matter in terms of making that final decision. And as we said, juju Watkins, like, that roster experienced so much turnover this year and she really does have to handle so much of what they're doing. And, you know, she rebounds for them. She averages almost seven per game. Like, she, you know, can get assists with ease whenever she needs it. She really is doing so much for them in a way that, you know, as Sabrina said, like, there are some other players on Notre Dame who can also star, though Hidalgo might be the brightest star of them all this year.
- [20:00]
F
Well, and like Ben, we're talking about such small margins here. Like, it's funny to think a year ago when we were like trying to drum up some sort of a debate for the Caitlyn, like, story. Like, is there anyone that we can talk about sort of in the same context? Is there anyone, you know, close within this? But it's like the margins here between these three players. And, you know, Paige Beckers is someone we haven't talked about yet, but we should include her in this conversation. And like others as well, like, the margins are not great here. Like when you need until the last 40 minutes of, of a 30 game season to sort of decide who is the best player in the country. Like, ultimately, let's all be really grateful that we're watching this level of basketball. And last year was fun too, obviously, sort of seeing what Caitlin did. But this is really great in terms of that there is a debate that it is really close, that it's not obvious and that good arguments can be made on both sides of this. And all of us agree on juju. But I'm sure we could bring other people who follow the sport really closely on that could argue really compelling cases for Hannah or for Lauren.
- [21:02]
Sabrina Merchant
See that? Okay. I'm happy you brought up Paige because that was exactly where I was going to go to next. And I think you're right. I think the conversation is we're splitting hairs here. Like, it could be incredibly thin in the way that you can go one way or another. But Paige Becker's I feel like, is a little bit different. Like there's a little bit of a gap between her and those top three. And maybe it's because of some of the early losses that UConn experienced where you didn't see Paige kind of take over those games? I'm not sure. But earlier on this season in January, Paige was in that conversation for our outlet and something happened where she shifted down. And I'm curious Sabrina, for you, you chose juju as well, but where did Paige end up in that larger conversation and what happened for her to not be a part of those top three at least?
- [21:48]
G
Well, I still voted Paige for female Americans. So within the top five of the country, even if she wasn't necessarily in the top three behind, you know, Hidalgo, Bets and Watkins. I think part of it is head to head. You know, UConn did lose to USC. They did lose to Notre Dame. And I thought Juju and Hidalgo both outplayed Paige in those individual matchups. That isn't of course the end all be all because Hidalgo did outplay Watkins when Notre Dame beat usc and that wasn't the deciding factor there. But I think that's part of it. You know, UConn gets fewer opportunities to play against the top competition compared to teams in the Big Ten and the acc and they're just a certain number of moments where you have to absolutely make a mark. And I think she had a great game against North Carolina earlier in the year which obviously helps cement her case. Played extraordinarily well against South Carolina when they just destroyed them back at Colonial Life earlier I guess a few weeks ago at this point. But I think part of it is role. UConn has a lot more, a lot more margin for error in some of their games than these other teams. And the stress isn't necessarily on Becker is on a night to night basis the same way it is on some of these other players who have to perform. I also think just numbers wise like her stats aren't quite as high volume as some of the other players. You know, like Hannah Dalgo and Juju Watkins are both averaging more than 24 points a game. Paige was at 18.6. Right. Like rebound wise, Juju's a little bit higher than her. You know, I guess Paige is the primary point guard. But even like shooting numbers, you know, I just think like the volume of what the other players have to do I think is really what swayed me in favor of them. Vers what Paige had to do. And again I think Ben mentioned this that we had Sarah Strong in all American consideration and it's just easier to play well when you have another player in all American consideration versus what especially those LA players have to deal with.
- [23:33]
F
Well and I think if you think back to UConn's biggest games this season. And like we were talking about with juju, where it's like the lights are the brightest, she shows up. And you think about UConn's biggest games this season, like, is it always Paige? You're thinking of as sort of the, the person who tipped the scales in terms of UConn. And I think in some ways, yes. But like, you think back to that South Carolina game, Paige had a really good game. But like I instantly think of az. I think of Sarah Strong's rebounding efforts. You think back to that Tennessee game. You think back to that USC game, I think of Sarah Strong first. Like, how could she looked? And maybe that's like partly because she is, is playing so well as a freshman. And not to say that Paige didn't play well in those games, but I think it's when you talk about, like you said, Sabrina, like there's fewer opportunities for UConn to be on that stage even though they're UConn and they're kind of on the stage all the time because of who they are. Like, it's just in those games where she wasn't an absolute monster, where it's like, oh, well, you kind of expect that from her. And then it's like you think of other players in those moments.
- [24:38]
Evan
I'll just throw one other number on this conversation. I mean, Paige Becker's first overall in the NCAA in win shares per 40 minutes this year. But the reason why she is, you know, so high up in that category and not, you know, winchers overall by comparison is just because of the minutes and the usage. As Sabrina said, let's just think about her in the context of the other guards. Paige Beckers has played more than 30 minutes this season, just nine times. If you combine Hannah Hidalgo and Juju Watkins, they've played fewer than 30 minutes six times combined. Right. So that tells you kind of everything you need to know about how Paige Becker's has to be used or is used on this UConn team versus how Juju and Hannah are used on Notre Dame this year.
- [25:17]
F
But also win shares doesn't take into account strength of schedule. Right. And like when you look overall like UConn certainly has like their top tier of games that they play is really, really good. But then like, let's not compare the Big east to what the ACC and the Big Ten are playing on a night to night basis. And I think I just pulled up the net based on the net strength of schedule. Yukon, you know, they have two quad one wins and their net is three. But their net strength is schedule is 35. And so it's taking that into account, too.
- [25:45]
Sabrina Merchant
There's so many factors that you can incorporate into this in terms of the context of the team that they're on, who they're playing alongside, the context of how they're utilized on that team, how they actually perform their stats. Right. And if you look at the stats, like Paige Beckers is at the bottom there. And I think that all of these factors are a little bit more used in the national player of the year role because you're thinking about overall how this particular person player impacted their ability to win, impact impacted their team's ability to win, how much they were utilized in order to win. I feel as if that might not be the case or may not be as robust of a conversation when it comes to the freshmen of the year. So let's shift the conversation over to the youngins, because sometimes when you're looking at the young bucks, it's really about, did they come into the NCAA like, ready to go, mature in their game, able to impact the game, able to be consistent, you know, someone that you can count on in big moments. And I feel like that is why it was easy for us together as a group, a cohesive effort here to choose Sarah Strong as our freshman of the year. Now, this is interesting. When we chose our players of the year, we had them kind of listed out for first team All America. We didn't all have the same order like I had Paige Becker second in my conversation. But when it came to freshman of the year, we not only chose all of the same three people we considered, we also chose them in the same order. And that is very interesting considering we all have different minds that watch these games but saw different things. So thinking about everything we just talked about, maybe stats, context of team, how much they're utilized. I want to ask each of you, Sabrina, I'll start with you. Which one was most important to you when you made the decision to have Sarah Strong over other freshmen throughout the country?
- [27:45]
G
I think part of it was just impact on both ends of the floor. Like, she is potentially UConn's second most important offensive player, depending on how you categorize AC Fludd. But I think Strong, just like what she is, is a screener, a roller, or even an outside shooter. Just does a little bit of everything for UConn, and then also just a phenomenally impressive defensive player, especially for a freshman. So being able to do a little bit of everything, impacting winning on both ends. Like, again, we mentioned that UConn doesn't have like the same strength of schedule but like it is a big time program, it is a big time national stage and she constantly has eyes on her. So to be able to perform like that, it's just really impressive. And I think it wasn't really that challenging. It was. I watch, you know, all of these players play over the course of the season and Sarah was the one that was the most consistently standing out.
- [28:30]
Sabrina Merchant
All right, what about you, Chantel?
- [28:31]
F
Yeah, I think just with again that's a team that when you look at UConn, what Sarah was asked to do for them specifically in terms of that role and that stretch four position to step into there and be able to finish on the inside, hit threes, play alongside both AZ and Paige, like that's a lot of, a lot of basketball to share. And yet she still, you know, didn't fade into the background and sort of defer to the older, more established players. I was really impressed with all of that with her play this season. And again, to go back to it, those big games you think of, she showed up when it was a game at South Carolina, at Tennessee. Those are not easy environments to play in and you've got a true freshman showing up. It was really impressive.
- [29:13]
Sabrina Merchant
Ben.
- [29:14]
Evan
Yeah, I mean for me this was Sarah Strong or Mikayla Blake's conversation. And the thing that I think I've been wondering about and I'd be curious to hear your guys thoughts is who potentially of the two of them impacted their program more this year based on the year that they've had. Right. Like Sarah Strong I think is the kind of player who might be the biggest X factor in the country and could be the player that pushes UConn over the edge and potentially winning a national championship this year. She also may be, you know, the heir apparent to Paige Beckers in terms of next big stars of UConn's women's basketball program. The story program that it is like she is well positioned to be, you know, the centerpiece going forward. We've heard comparisons all year to Brianna Stewart, Nafisa Collier, like impact posts like that from Gino Oriemma, you know, Paige Beckers, they've been effusive in her praise. And then you look at someone like Michaela Blakes who has 250 pieces, you know, she's a top 15, top 20 recruit. We heard her on this podcast last year and heard what, you know, Shea Ralph was talking about like Vanderbilt last week.
- [30:17]
Sabrina Merchant
We heard her last week.
- [30:18]
Evan
Vanderbilt, the top 25 program. 20 plus wins yet again for the second consecutive year, well positioned to make the NCAA tournament. Like Blake's could be the kind of player, and I think Shay Ralph hopes this, that like reroutes the orientation of that program and makes them a perennial top 25, top 20 program year over year versus like Sarah Strong being just the, you know, the next era, the Next great for UConn. You know, to me that didn't factor in my discussion and my analysis this year because again, as we talked about, as Sabrina said, like I think these year over year or these yearly awards, like we should as much as we can focus on their production this year. But that's just a question I've been pondering as you know, future seasons and what the impact of both of these freshmen might be overall.
- [31:03]
Sabrina Merchant
And that's what I'm, I'm curious about because I do feel as if, if you look at the two, particularly Sarah Strong and Michaela Blakes, one could argue Michaela Blakes has a lot more to carry than a Sarah Strong does. She has a lot more help. And what I mean by Strong playing alongside an az, Fudd, Pais, Beckers, but then also being within a program that has historically been really elite. Michaela Blakes is coming into a program that is on that journey and she is carrying on her back alongside with Camille Pierre this journey to try to change the direction of this program, as you mentioned, Ben. So I'm just curious, like what could have Michaela Blake's done more than have two 50 piece games to be able to, you know, outdo Sarah Strong that had a page and AZ alongside her?
- [31:52]
F
I mean, I think Vanderbilt could have won more. Like, you know, that's probably, I mean, that's probably what it comes down to, right? Like certainly she shouldered more, but the margin for error at Vanderbilt is quite a bit larger. We're talking about a golf here than the margin for error at UConn. Like there is no margin for air at UConn. They lose to Notre Dame two years in a row and it's like, oh my God, what's happening? They lose to Tennessee this season and it's like, oh my gosh. But I think the ultimately, you know, if, if Vanderbilt were, you know, if she had sort of impacted winning again, to go back to Gottlieb's words here, like if she had impacted winning enough that Vanderbilt were, you know, a top three seed in the SEC tournament, top four seed in the SEC tournament, I think this conversation might look a little bit different. I don't know, maybe that's just me playing the devil's advocate here a little bit. But I don't know. Sabrina, what do you think?
- [32:46]
G
I mean, it is a very compelling argument for Mikayla Blakes. And you look at their common opponents like she had a game winner against Tennessee. UConn lost to Tennessee. Like that should work in Mikayla Blake's favor, theoretically. But I think just the defensive impact for me with Sarah Strong was so enormous what she was able to accomplish on that end of the floor. And again, it is more challenging for guards to affect that in the same way that bigs do. But like, Sarah Strong even had more assists per game than Michaela Blakes did. And I realized Michaela Blix is a bucket getter. That's not what she is intended to do. But there was just a more well rounded scope of what Sarah Strong did at UConn this season, even with the help. I just think that it was her award because of like the. The variety of things that she was able to produce on the floor.
- [33:26]
Sabrina Merchant
Okay, well, we had one more person in this conversation, and that is Joyce Edwards out of South Carolina. Now, again, South Carolina, if you've been listening to our podcast, we continuously talk about this strong heritage of Biggs that South Carolina has developed. And Joyce Edwards just continues that lineage. It's kind of surreal, like, just how much they keep having them back to back to back to back. But Joyce Edwards, all this season, I just kept feeling as if she's been here before. You know how they talk about babies that like, talk before they're supposed to talk, or they say things that they like. You're like, how do you know that? You're only one years old. And it's like, I feel like that about Joyce Edwards and the way that she plays out sometimes on the court. I'm like, you've been here before. There's a poise about you. There's a calmness about you that the way that she operates makes me feel as if she's been here before. Now I'm curious if her play versus her team's play impacted her not being higher on the freshman of the year conversation for y'all. Because for me, that's what it was. I was looking at, you know, head to head matchup against ucla. Of course, Lauren Betts won that out and Joyce Edwards being a part of that battle, that competition. But she wasn't the main big at South Carolina. You know, of course, Chloe Kitts and Saniah Fagan and others around her. Ashlyn Watkins, before she went out Those were the bigs at South Carolina before a Joyce Edwards, but she still did the best she could with her minutes. How much did the team play into the factor and where she fit within the team versus her individual play when putting her in this list.
- [34:57]
Evan
You said team and you mentioned minutes, and that really is the case against Joyce Edwards here. She had a very, very good freshman year, but if you. If you look at the minutes, she averaged 21 minutes per game, right? Whereas Mikayla Blake's average is just over 31, and Sarah Strong averages around 28 per game. And so, you know, Joyce Edwards, I think, started one game In South Carolina's 30, because South Carolina just has an abundance of talent in the front court, really all over the roster. And so, you know, she had a number of really, really good performances and certainly established herself really well and is set up to play an important role for South Carolina in the SEC Tournament and into the NCAA tournament. But it goes back to kind of usage and just what they are asked to do. And. And, you know, she will be part of these national award conversations for years to come. She's. She'll be part of, like, the Team USA system for years to come. But if just freshman of the year, what she was asked to do compared to some of the other players, it just was a little bit less. And I think that was a differentiator for all three of us.
- [35:53]
F
I also think it's a credit to Joyce Edwards that it's like she started one game, she only played 21 minutes a game, like, came off the bench all year for a team, led her team in scoring. Though coming off the bench like that also speaks to the team mentality at South Carolina. And yet with sort of all of these factors where it's like, when you think about a team like South Carolina is a team, she's still the third best in this conversation. Like, I think that says a lot about what she was able to do and put on the floor in her minutes that we were able to see. Like, we've all said the freshmen are not freshmen. Like, when she's out there, when Mikayla's out there, when Sarah's out there, you're not looking at freshmen, as Gina would say, you know, they've all been, like, dribbling tennis balls with their private trainers since they were like, six. And so they come in, you know, super advanced, whatever, but, like, you know, she never looked like a freshman out there. And I think when Dawn Staley goes to her bench, she feels so confident in what they'll be able to do. And obviously she and Malaysia as the two leading scorers on that team have proved that. But like it's just a credit to her that she's in this conversation having only started one game and playing 20 minutes a game.
- [36:55]
Sabrina Merchant
Now we got two bigs in this conversation, one guard. You mentioned Malaysia Fulwe, obviously. We just talked about Juju Watkins, we just talked about Hannah Hidalgo. Compare this class to last year's freshman class. Thoughts on that?
- [37:09]
G
I think the star power in last year's freshman class is kind of unprecedented. You look at Juju and she could be a WNBA player right now. And that's just not a thing that you can say about a lot of players in college, let alone one who is still an underclassman. And you think about like Madison Booker again has like just pro ready jump shot right now and she might be the third best player in that class. You know, like we didn't even talk about her in player of the year discussion. So I think 2027, like that WMA draft class, I should say like the freshman class of 2024 is kind of anomalous. You know, just the way that they were able to produce, the way that they were able to win at such a high level so early in their college careers. I think it's unfair to put that kind of expectation on other freshman classes, not say that this one isn't excellent. And I think a lot of them have been excellent of late, but I mean that one was just, just special in a different way.
- [37:55]
Sabrina Merchant
It was kind of crazy that we also opened the year with two freshmen coming at each other in Malaysia. Full Wiley and Hannah Hidalgo. Just kind of setting the table of just so you know, this is what you can expect for the next four years out of us. And of course the stars have continued to shine bright. But yeah, I definitely, I would agree with that, that this year's freshman classes, they're great. Not quite the sophomore class though a little bit. They still hold that title for themselves. Okay, let's keep the conversation going and we're going to go over to the one conversation or the one award that we were not on the same page on. And I'm not going to lie, after seeing a few of the games this weekend, I'm like, dang, do I want to switch up my choice? There were quite a few great coaching, I don't want to say debuts. No, it wasn't debuts. It was just showcases yesterday. Namely Mark Campbell, TCU being able to hold out against the Baylor Bears to get their conference championship first one for TCU men and women's basketball, which was absolutely insane. I have no idea actually who you guys chose, so I just threw out Mark Campbell. I'm not sure if he's one of yours, but I'll go last in who I chose for coach of the year. Ben, let's start with you. Who did you pick and why?
- [39:12]
Evan
Yeah, you should start with me because I, in the end, picked Mark Campbell as my coach of the year. So that was a nice tf.
- [39:18]
Sabrina Merchant
I didn't know that, guys. I didn't know that.
- [39:21]
G
Ben, Ben, did you always have Mark Campbell as your coach of the year or did something happen?
- [39:25]
Evan
I would say that Corey Close of UCLA was very high up on my ballot until, you know, really what happened on Saturday night was kind of the final deciding factor for me in that conversation, coupled with TCU winning the Big 12 title.
- [39:39]
Sabrina Merchant
Yeah.
- [39:39]
Evan
But if I'm going to make the case for Mark Campbell, let's start here. And I think this is a pretty simple one, guys. Which power conference winner was the most surprising this year? Like, can you make the case for any other program other than TCU even? I mean, I'm seeing Sabrina right now, like, on the video right now. Her head is spinning about how can she try and make it convincing case.
- [40:00]
F
She'S going to shut you down so hard.
- [40:02]
G
Because they're the most surprising doesn't mean, like, I don't know. Just I don't think that that should be the end all be all.
- [40:07]
Evan
I didn't say it was the end all be all. But TCU, 28 and 3, fourth overall in that rating. Second overall offensive rating, highest ranking in AP program history. They've never even had fewer than seven losses in a season. If they lose in the. In the Big 12 tournament and in the NCAA tournament, which presumably they're going to lose in one of those tournaments, if not both of them, they'll have at most five. Like, this is a historically good year for them. Last year, you know, 140 in Mark Campbell's first year to start. Then they finished 7 and 12. Like, they brought the best out of Haley Van Lith, who had a bounce back year after, you know, last season at lsu, they win their first ever conference title. I mentioned the, like, we've talked about them on this podcast almost like week after week, just like how surprising they were. So much of this is just like, again, like, they had so much success in a way that people did not expect have any expectation for them to have this much success heading into the year. Again, a close Debate. I think there were seven, eight, nine coaches who we all collectively, in our athletic voting, like, voted for for coach of the year. I think you could have gone a number of different routes, and I don't think there's necessarily, like, a bad pick, and it's a super hard award to even determine. But for me, it kept coming back to biggest surprise, biggest overachiever, biggest jump, historic season. Plus, like, a legitimately good team in TCU. Like, a legit top 10 program, 28 and 3, albeit in the Big 12 and not the SEC. But, like, you play who you play, and they played incredibly well. So I'll give Mark Campbell the nod here as coach of the year.
- [41:42]
Sabrina Merchant
I'm a pushback real quick.
- [41:43]
G
I mean, should we have been that surprised by TCU winning the big.
- [41:46]
Sabrina Merchant
That's what I was gonna say. I wasn't. I was. I thought actually NC State ending up in the conversation with Notre Dame at the top of the ACC was actually pretty surprising. So shout out to Westmore. But I'm also push back on the fact that, yes, Mark Campbell had a solid team in tcu. They were also experienced. Like, these were grown women. A lot of them were grown women going up against younger players throughout the Big 12. So I commend Mark Campbell being able to put that group together and buy. Having them buy in and be able to play well together and get some big wins, especially early on the season. But I wasn't actually that surprised that they ended up winning.
- [42:25]
G
Well, see, this is where we get into what qualifies for coach of the year, because in college basketball, the coach puts together the roster as well. Right. So Mark Campbell deserves a ton of credit for phenomenal recruiter Bigby and Haley Van Liss. And a player's coach, incredible recruiter. Right?
- [42:38]
F
Yeah.
- [42:39]
G
So to put this roster together, how much are we factoring that into his performance as coach of the year? Like, that's sort of where maybe Ben gives Mark more credit for, like, the recruiting part versus, like, what actually happened, you know, in terms of his coaching over the year. I don't really know how to distinguish those two things. Right. Like, Ben, I guess you could share some insight there. Like, was it part of him just building the roster, or was it more.
- [43:01]
Evan
Factored in building the roster more? Sabrina, I mean, you just made.
- [43:04]
F
And even she just made the case for you.
- [43:07]
G
Yeah, I assume that was part of it.
- [43:08]
Evan
Yeah. I mean, they obviously have a really good roster, but, like, I think that's one of the tricky parts of this conversation. Like, someone like Neil Ivey I don't know if anyone voted for her first. Like, are we supposed to diminish her because she has Olivia Miles, Sonia Citron, and, you know, Hannah Doggo in the backcourt? Like, are you diminished for being a good recruiter here? I don't really think so. I think that, like.
- [43:30]
Sabrina Merchant
No, no, no, no.
- [43:31]
G
I just mean, like, how much? Because, like, those recruits didn't happen this year. Right. So are we counting it as coach of this year? Because she already had all those players coming back. She did bring in Leah to King and Liza Carlin and Kate, but that's the tricky part. Like, how much of the roster building do we associate in coach of the Year? And, like, how much of the roster building in previous seasons can you attribute to this year's coach of the Year? It's all just a weird part of the equation.
- [43:52]
Sabrina Merchant
Yeah, I think I felt like the. Okay, Chantelle, you and I were on the same page with Neil Ivey, right? I want to know your perspective. I'll add mine in last, but why did you choose Neil Ivy, Even though, as Ben laid out, like, she had all these tools at her disposal as well and was able to make them work in her favor, why'd you choose Neil?
- [44:12]
F
Well, Xena, this is actually also. I really wanna hear why you chose Neil, because as the former player on this podcast, like, I'm really curious how you judge Coach of the year as someone who's actually, like, had a college basketball coach, whereas the three of us have not. But at least for me, when I'm looking at this award, what I think of is, like, there are certain, if we can sort of think of it in lanes. There's certain lanes in college coaching that I think of are really, really hard. One is when you have a team that's not very good and you need to get them to overachieve. I think we can all agree that's a hard coaching job. The other end of that spectrum is also really, really hard when you have all of this talent and you need to get players to sacrifice and getting stars to sacrifice or stars to change their game or these future WNBA players to defer in moments. Like, I think that is incredibly difficult as well. And then I think there's sort of the third lane of, like, someone who is going through, like, a transition in terms of schemes, schematics, personnel, for whatever reason. Like, I think that can be really, really hard when there's some sort of a big change. And actually, my top three reflect all three of those lanes. But I just went, or I guess no, it represents two of those lanes because my top two were Neil Ivey and Lindsey Gottlieb. I think it's really challenging when you have a team like Notre Dame where, like, the question coming into this year was, how on God's green earth is Neil Ivey going to find enough basketballs to go around to sort of, like, serve this team and keep everyone happy and keep them winning, like, feels like sort of an impossible task. And yet here we are at this point in the season, and you've got the two primary ball handlers on our All American teams. Like, that's really impressive. And if we were talking about, you know, our top two defensive teams, I'm sure Sony would be in there. Like, if we get further down the list, maybe Kate Koval is like, transfers of the year. Like, I think there's enough players in there where it's like, you have players on Notre Dame where it's like, what she was able to do with this group of players this year, fit them all together in a way that they want a share of the ACC regular season title. I think they sort of fell off of late, but, like, where they are nationally, I think we can all sort of still see them as a Final Four team, a national champion contender, but, like, filling that lane of, like, you have all of this talent, how can you get everything to fit together and players to sacrifice what they need to sacrifice for the common goal? I think that sounds a little Coach Speaky, I guess, now that I say it, like, a little like that, but I think that's a really challenging thing to do.
- [46:45]
Sabrina Merchant
Absolutely. And it's actually what really fueled my decision with Neil Ivy. Now, having played for In a program and for a coach that I do not think was skilled at recognizing people's individual talents and finding a way for them to be incorporated and integrated into a system. And also not playing favorites like that is a big thing that can kill people's careers. When a player feels as if a coach is playing favorites or has biased views of particular players. And it's incredibly hard to have a star take a Hannah Hidalgo and then incorporate another one that's coming back off of injury and keep that one's confidence up. And not only keep her confidence up, but allow her to play in a way as if she's never missed a beat. Like, there's something to me, I don't know what the conversations were like or what the film sessions were like with, you know, between Coach Ivey and Olivia Miles, but the way that Olivia Miles came back this year and seamlessly found her way back into the mix for Notre Dame is a testament to me of Neil Ivey and her coaching staff and how they were able to make sure that she didn't feel as if she had to fight back to get back on the court. She had to fight to, you know, she could make some mistakes and still play through that. Not all coaches can do that. The other thing that made me not go the route of a Lindsey Gottlieb or a Corey Close is because I feel as if those programs are a little player heavy with Neil Ivey. I just feel as if they have, they're gluttonous for talent. Like they just have so many people that if Hannah Hidalgo doesn't play well, they'll be fine. If Olivia Miles doesn't play well, they'll be fine. If Sony Stichone doesn't play well, they'll be fine. They find a way to morph around those situations. I don't know. If juju Watkins was not in the USC program, would that program be as successful as it was? If Lauren Betts was not in the UCLA program, would that program have been as successful as it was this year? I'm going to lean on no. And so that's what move removed those two. It's actually why I also wanted to put Shea Ralph into this conversation about being able to have big players play well together in a Michaela Blakes and Camille Pierre. The last thing I'll say as to why I chose Neil Ivy, those two losses in that tournament, I don't know if you guys remember, we had to watch on like flow college or whatever it was TCU take down Notre Dame and then Utah take them down the very next game. That was the nadir of their their season. I wouldn't even think these last two ranked losses that Notre Dame had are pretty bad. Those two losses were so bad and they were in a warm place. They should have been having fun in a tropical space. Instead they took those two losses. I feel as if the way they came back and went on a like, I don't know, 12 game winning streak, beat number four Texas at the time, the very next game. That was huge. So those were my three reasons as to why I chose Neil. Ben, you're squinting your eyes. Tell me what you're thinking.
- [49:48]
Evan
Well, you just mentioned that TCU beat Notre Dame and I'm hung up on that guy.
- [49:56]
Sabrina Merchant
Okay, listen, bigger losses to me that TCU has had. But anyways, yes, I agree again, I have my reasons for Mark Campbell and that that roster being just a little bit older than everyone else. That being said. Oh, also, I forgot folding in Maddie west belt back into the mix. How am I forgetting this? Anywho, I've talked way longer than I thought I would. Sabrina, thoughts on coach of the year?
- [50:20]
G
So my three person ballot didn't include any of the people we've talked about.
- [50:24]
F
Thus far, which is my favorite thing because I and everyone sent me theirs and I was like, okay, okay, okay. Then I was like, Sabrina, remember to send me your coach, your votes. And then she sends them to me and I'm like of course. This is like peak Sabrina. I cannot wait to hear her reasoning for this because you picked three people that appear nowhere else on the ballot.
- [50:43]
G
I feel really good about my ballot too. I'll start at the bottom. Just real quick, I had Jeff Waltz number three. I think the way he great pick, had a really tough schedule at the start of the year for Louisville, but you know, came together and played really well during the ACC stretch. Ends up beating Duke, almost beats North Carolina. You know, has really competitive game against Notre Dame. I mean I think just cobbling together all of these freshmen and transfers together like a lot of new players. I mean he got Jada Currier to play defense for him on Louisville. Like that was a remarkable thing to happen this season considering she couldn't even start last year. Like they were starting Nina Ricards, that Florida transfer at point guard, just because she was helpless on the defensive end. So like all of the individual improvements you've seen over the course of the year with her and Roberts and Jaleel Williams, like I just think that in season job has been really impressive for Louisville. Then second and first was really hard for me to distinguish between. I ended up going with Kenny Brooks for Kentucky. First I look at that roster and like I don't think most of us could have identified who Deja Lawrence and Amelia Hassett were before the start of this season. Or like Saniya Tyler and Clara Strack had played like all of 5 Real Games for Virginia Tech before coming over to Kentucky. And like this is a program with not a lot of historical success and for them to immediately hit the ground running, be it like a top 10 team over the course of the season, they're probably in position to host still. Like I don't think there was a lot of expectation for what this disparate groups like of players could do together. And for Kenny Brooks to just immediately install a system and show that like I can do this anywhere. Like it's not Just Virginia Tech. It's not just Elizabeth Kitley. I think that was really impressive just to immediately be a force in the sec. It was really hard for me to not pick, actually, Courtney Bangert from unc, which I know Zena, your favorite coach in the country. But I looked at UNC's roster, and they lost Deja Kelly. It was just really unclear what they were supposed to rely on as an anchor for their team. And Courtney just got good performances out of everybody. Right. Like, it's been a tough stretch over the last week without Alyssa Aspie and Renaia Kelly. But, like, you look at what Tarana Crisp and, you know, Lainey Grant and Maria Gakting and Lexi Dinarski and just all of up and down the roster, like, everybody has had a really good year for Carolina. And for a coach to be able to optimize basically every single one of their players is damn near unprecedented. And to do that, like, in a tough ACC where they, again, they were a top 10 team for stretches of this season, too. I just think the expectations were, like, really clouded for what that program was doing. You know, like, she was supposed to build something great with this, you know, recruiting class of Deja Kelly Kennedy, Todd Williams, and Alyssa Espie. Two of them were gone. And for her to have her best season without two of them, I think it's just really impressive how, you know, she got something out of everybody on that team and again, in, like, a pretty tough conference plan.
- [53:26]
Sabrina Merchant
Now on that point, what about Carol Lawson right across the street at Duke?
- [53:30]
G
I think they could have done better.
- [53:33]
Sabrina Merchant
Okay. All right.
- [53:34]
G
I think you look at Duke and just the number of top recruits on that team, like, Toby Fournier comes in. Jaden Donovan was the top recruit last year. Lucia Conomaugh was, like, the rating 6 woman of the year. I don't know. I just. I think Courtney Bangart was able to maximize more of what Carolina had than Carol Lawson was.
- [53:50]
Sabrina Merchant
Okay.
- [53:50]
F
I like to imagine Sabrina as a college basketball like mine. Like, I've said this before, that you could have been, like, a great player or a great coach because you have the greatest memory of, like, anyone. But I would love to see you coming into a halftime talk and just going, I think you could have been better. Just, like, that's the whole halftime talk from Sabrina. It's just, like, straight to the point.
- [54:11]
Sabrina Merchant
And it'll burn just in a way that it needs to burn so that they can come back.
- [54:14]
F
We all knew exactly what she meant. All of us on this podcast, everyone listening knows exactly what she meant. She didn't have to elaborate. We got it. I did want to mention, because you brought up Kenny Brooks, which I can't argue with anyone's picks here, this sort of feels like the one area where, like, you know, as much crap as we've given Ben or sort of picked on him for tcu. Like, I agree. Mark Campbell. Like, I agree, too. Yeah. How much is sort of roster composition a part of this? This calculus? And everyone's calculus here feels extremely different and diverse because it's like, more so than freshman of the year, player of the year. Like, there's just so much that goes in to coaching, and I think there's a lot, like, you know, what we see players. It's like 40 minutes on the floor, and with coaching, you see so much more. It's like you see the full year investment and whatnot. But when you're talking about Kenny Brooks and sort of the, like, expectations for Kentucky coming into this year, I realized that I didn't. I didn't bring up who my third place vote was, which was Kim Caldwell. And I think she's someone. And Tennessee is a program where it's like, if we talk about low expectations for this year, like, who thought the Lady Vols were gonna. Like, this is not just. It's a team that is, like, completely new and going through a total transition. And you're talking about players who, you know, to get them to sacrifice in a way where it's like, we're gonna do hockey subs, everyone's probably gonna play less. You're gonna start based off how well you played the last game. Like, nothing is sort of, like, guaranteed or promised in this program, and everything is gonna change. And she's coached one year of Division 1 basketball. She has a child in the middle of the season. Like, not that that's part of her coaching, but just sort of like to think of her season in this way. Like, you know, I think Kim Caldwell is someone. We've talked about the Lady Vol. So much this year on this podcast, but I'd be remiss not to bring her up in this conversation in this context.
- [55:54]
Evan
And if I was just going to throw one other SEC coach in who ended up making my ballot, it's Vic Schaefer, who, you know, maybe is penalized in this conversation because Texas could be the number one overall seed in the NCAA Tournament in just a few weeks time. Like, again, 29. 2 regular season. Yes, they were a 1 seed last year, but an incredible year again, continuing to build on the success that for the program he has built with the Longhorns. And I should say, personally, like, I sometimes fiddle with a pen during our conversations, but throughout this conversation, I've actually been holding a little coin the whole time, just as like a little homage to Texas in South Carolina in the SEC tournament. Number one.
- [56:31]
Sabrina Merchant
That is ridiculous.
- [56:32]
Evan
Having to be decided on a coin flip. So, you know, feeling a little Vic Schaefer magic this morning, too.
- [56:37]
G
Well, the coin did not give Vic Schaefer magic. We should point that out.
- [56:39]
Sabrina Merchant
Right?
- [56:39]
Evan
I guess I'm hoping to have a little bit more magic than Vic Schaefer. I should have said it's a good correction there, Sabrina.
- [56:44]
Sabrina Merchant
That is actually still crazy that that decision is coming down to a coin flip. But I want to ask in the midst of all these coaches, and there's so many more that I typed up and then I removed. I typed up, I removed. I mean, Don Staley was in that conversation for me as well. I just wonder, particularly when it comes to, like, conference realignment, Lindsey Gottlieb coming into the Big Ten first season, capturing the title, does that factor like the way that some of these coaches that came into these new conferences and how they adjusted, Hearing coach Sharman Smith from California talk about there are so many teams we don't have film on, and some of these teams we've only played one time or we get to play them one time this year. Right. That is so difficult. Beyond roster construction, beyond maximizing talent on your roster, there's also the factor of actually scouting and preparing your teams to play. And I feel like there's something to be said about some of these teams that came into conferences that they had never been in before and maybe played once, never played some. Some of these, and found a way to win against them in small periods of time. How much did conference realignment play into some of your factors here?
- [58:00]
Evan
I mean, Zena, you just committed the cardinal sin of this podcast, which is making Sabrina look a little bit smarter than she already is. Because this isn't exactly conference realignment here. But of the first place candidates that we all threw out, Kenny Brooks is the only one who actually switch schools from year to year and had to adjust to not only joining a new conference from the ACC to the SEC and having to, as you mentioned, Zena, scout all new opponents, learn a new style of play. Like Kenny Brooks has to deal with the transfer portal in a way that some of these coaches have not. And Kenny Brooks had never even coached outside of the state of Virginia, let alone like switching to an entirely new conference. So, you know, it wasn't really a factor in my deliberations, but it does a point that I do think, you know, maybe bolster Sabrina's argument here, which, you know, she doesn't ever need help getting more evidence in her favor.
- [58:47]
Sabrina Merchant
Well, now you guys have switched the. I mean, you've got. You've basically done the favor for each other. Sabrina helped bolster Ben's argument, and now you bolster hers. But Sabrina, did you already think about that when you were thinking about Kenny Brooks and the impact that he's had at Kentucky?
- [59:01]
G
I mean, it was mostly just dealing with an entirely new roster other than Georgia and Clara Strack at Kentucky. And again with the program that he wasn't. Hasn't had a ton of historical success with the Wildcats. Like, having to just basically build that up from the ground, I thought was more of what I was looking for than him having to play SEC teams.
- [59:17]
F
I mean, I think, you know, I believe I was the only person that had Lindsey Gottlieb, USC coach on my ballot. And to go back to sort of like, my reasoning for that was like, she. She did kind of have to deal with an entirely new roster. Obviously, it helps when you have the national player of the year in your corner. Like, that's a real nice foundation to build around. But, like, she brought a ton of freshmen in. She brought multiple transfers in who weren't just playing a role. Like, Kiki Iriafen is a huge part of the success of what this team does. And so there's that. But I also think, yeah, joining the Big Ten, you're in a conference where not just do you not have game film on any of these teams, but you're showing up to these Midwestern cities. You've never been to.
- [59:58]
Sabrina Merchant
Different environments.
- [59:59]
F
Going to Bloomington, you've never been in that gym before, or East Lansing or Minneapolis or Iowa City. Like. Like you've never been in these cities before. Like, when you're in the pack 12, it's like it's sort of old hat where, you know, you've been to Pullman a million times, you know exactly what hotel you're going to stay at, where you're going to eat dinner, how you're going to get the team ready. And I think when you look at what specifically these, like, Big Ten west teams have done this year, it. It's particularly impressive because of time zone changes, how you've changed your system so that players can make sure that they're fueling well enough and hydrating well enough and sleeping well enough and all of these sort of factors that, that every team probably deals with in a way. But when you're traveling from Tuscaloosa to Colombia, not as much when you have these shorter flights. And so those flights from LA to Maryland or LA to Rutgers or LA to, that's a pretty long flight. And so to think about getting your players to play really well after those flights and adjusting to that on a weekly basis and being gone that many days, it is, it is a part of, you know, when we think of as like coaching, like all that encompasses, that's a part of it, too.
- [61:05]
Sabrina Merchant
It also makes me think about the fact that when Gino Ayema said on this podcast a few weeks ago that there's not true parity in this association because of some teams having better resources around those exact factors than others, that does impact who you can recruit, how you can play in these spaces, et cetera. But overall, folks, I think we did a pretty good job of breaking this stuff down. I think we allowed them to fully implant themselves in our brains behind these pics. And I'm very curious for those of you listening, what you think about our picks. Like, do you think we did well? Who did we snub? Let us know. As always, we always appreciate the feedback, the comments, whatever, tweet at us. Blue sky, what is that called? I don't even know what the verb is for that one, but let us know. We always want to hear your feedback. But wrapping it up, gonna close it out today. Appreciate you guys all tuning in again. Hit that subscribe button on our show. Leave us comments on what you think and then go to the site. The articles where we break down these choices are live on the site. They're gonna be live throughout the rest of this week, so make sure that you guys go check that out as well. And stay tuned for this podcast because we're gonna continue for all of our picks in these categories and we're gonna be making sure that you guys know where we're landing before the conference tournament and of course, March Madness. On behalf of Ben, Sabrina and Chantel, I'm Zena Kada, thanking you for your ear and encouraging you guys. Keep listening, keep watching, keep learning and keep loving the game because that's the only way we're going to keep growing it until next time.
- [62:47]
Zena Keda
As we head into the playoffs. It's safe to assume there will be a few calls made by the refs that will be hard to accept. But you know what? What isn't hard to accept? Discover. Believe it or not, Discover is accepted at 99% of places that take credit cards nationwide. You heard that right, 99%. So make a good call for your wallet and get Discover based on the February 2024 Nielsen report. Learn more at discover.com credit card this.
- [63:12]
H
Podcast is brought to you by Aura. By the time you hear about a data breach, your information has already been exposed for months. On average, companies take 277 days to report a breach. That's nine months where hackers have access to your personal data. That's why we're thrilled to partner with Aura. Aura is an all in one digital safety solution that monitors the dark web for your phone number, email and Social Security number, sending real time alerts if your info is found. It also includes a vpn, password manager and data broker removal to help keep you safe for a limited time. Aura is offering a 14 day free trial plus a dark web scan to check if your personal information has been leaked. All for free@aura.com safety that's Aura aura.com safety to sign up and protect your loved ones. That's a u r a.com safety terms apply. Check the site for details.
- [64:06]
G
Acast powers the world's best podcasts.
- [64:10]
Sabrina Merchant
Here's a show that we recommend hey.
- [64:14]
Zena Keda
Guys, we have an exciting announcement about our podcast.
- [64:17]
F
For the past seven years, the Holderness Family Podcast has been the most favorite thing we do.
- [64:21]
Sabrina Merchant
We love getting to talk to experts.
- [64:23]
Zena Keda
We love having meaningful conversations just the two of us. And we also love hearing from you.
- [64:27]
F
But the thing we love most is being a place where you can laugh.
- [64:31]
Sabrina Merchant
A lot has changed in the last.
- [64:32]
Zena Keda
Seven years and we feel very lucky that our audience is growing older with us.
- [64:37]
F
So in the spirit of that, we are relaunching our podcast. We are excited to introduce Laugh Lines with Kim and Penn Holderness.
- [64:44]
Sabrina Merchant
The Laugh Lines podcast will be all.
- [64:46]
Zena Keda
About aging together better and also being.
- [64:49]
Sabrina Merchant
Able to laugh about getting older.
- [64:51]
F
We hope you'll join us. Search Laugh Lines with Kim and Pen Holderness New episodes every Tuesday.
- [64:58]
Sabrina Merchant
ACAST helps creators launch, grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere.
- [65:04]
G
Acast.
- [65:05]
F
Com.