The Great NCAA Women's Final Four Debate of 2025

Summary

No Offseason: The Athletic Women's Basketball Show Episode: The Great NCAA Women's Final Four Debate of 2025
Release Date: April 4, 2025
Hosts: Zena Keita, Chantel Jennings, Sabrina Merchant, and Ben Pickman

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Introduction and Setting the Stage [02:08 - 07:39]

The episode kicks off with Zena Keita welcoming listeners to Tampa for the NCAA Women's Final Four. She humorously remarks on the prevalence of tall individuals at their hotel, setting a lively and engaging tone for the discussion.

Zena Keita [02:08]: "And today on the show, I mean, what else is there to talk about? We're in Tampa, baby. It's the Final Four."

She introduces the hosts—Chantel Jennings, Sabrina Merchant, and Ben Pickman—and outlines the episode's focus: a spirited debate predicting the outcomes of the Final Four matchups with a fun twist, leveraging their collective insights and statistics.

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Debate Setup: South Carolina vs. Texas [07:39 - 21:13]

Zena initiates the debate segment by assigning teams:

• Ben Pickman represents South Carolina Gamecocks
• Sabrina Merchant represents Texas Longhorns

A coin toss determines that Sabrina will present her case first for Texas.

Sabrina's Argument for Texas Longhorns [07:49 - 11:15]

Sabrina Merchant passionately outlines why Texas should triumph over South Carolina:

• Defensive Prowess: Texas boasts the second-best net rating in the NCAA, excelling in defense by consistently shutting down opponents.

  Sabrina Merchant [07:49]: "Anytime you have a defense that can strangle you at the point of attack and in the paint, that's a pretty good recipe to shutting down opposing teams."

• Experienced Roster: With seasoned veterans like Rory Harmon and Taylor Jones, Texas combines experience with youthful energy, making them versatile and resilient.

• Balanced Offense: Texas's disciplined approach, focusing less on three-pointers and more on ball control, reduces variance and increases consistency in high-pressure games.

• Underdog Edge: As defending champions, South Carolina faces additional pressure, which Texas aims to leverage to their advantage.

Ben's Rebuttal for South Carolina Gamecocks [11:34 - 21:13]

Ben Pickman counters Sabrina's points by emphasizing South Carolina's historical strength and strategic advantages:

• Historical Dominance: South Carolina has a consistent track record against Texas, having defeated them three times during the season, including a decisive 64-45 victory in the SEC tournament final.

  Ben Pickman [11:16]: "South Carolina has even more experience. They have young players who are more productive and more important to the Gamecock success than the Texas Longhorns."

• Strategic Gameplay: South Carolina's ability to control the game's tempo and exploit Texas's defensive strategies positions them favorably.

• Coaching Expertise: Under Vic Schaefer, South Carolina exhibits superior preparation and adaptability, crucial factors in tightly contested matches.

• Depth and Versatility: South Carolina's bench strength and diverse lineup options make them unpredictable and difficult to strategize against.

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Interactive Debate and Listener Engagement [21:13 - 32:32]

Zena engages the hosts with interactive questions to deepen the debate:

Countering Defensive Strategies [16:23 - 20:36]

Zena poses a question to Sabrina about how Texas plans to counter South Carolina's defensive setup.

• Sabrina responds by highlighting Texas's robust interior presence with players like Taylor Jones and Kyla Oldacre, asserting that their strong center play will neutralize South Carolina's paint dominance.

  Sabrina Merchant [16:23]: "Taylor Jones and Kyla Oldaker are playing better now than they have at any point during the season... that's where this is going to be one of the keys."

• Ben reaffirms South Carolina's strategic depth, arguing that their transition defense and ability to stifle Texas's offensive turnovers will be decisive.

  Ben Pickman [15:43]: "South Carolina Gamecocks, who maybe should have been the number one overall seed... their transition defense is excellent."

Preparation and Game Planning [20:10 - 21:13]

The discussion delves into coaching strategies and the importance of preparation:

• Ben emphasizes the critical role of coaching in exploiting minor advantages, suggesting that South Carolina's experienced staff will effectively game plan against Texas.

  Ben Pickman [20:10]: "Coaches start to prepare scouts... finding little nuggets that could be the difference here."

• Sabrina counters by questioning the certainty of South Carolina's advantages, pointing out potential over-reliance on home-court factors and the unpredictability of tournament settings.

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UConn vs. UCLA Showdown [28:45 - 34:15]

The debate shifts focus to another critical matchup: UConn Huskies vs. UCLA Bruins.

Chantel's Perspective on UCLA [28:45 - 32:32]

Chantel Jennings presents a compelling case for UCLA:

• Perimeter Dominance: UCLA's versatility on the perimeter, combined with their strategic depth, makes them formidable against UConn's interior-focused defense.

  Chantel Jennings [28:45]: "UConn cannot guard UCLA one on one in the paint because no one can guard UCLA one on one in the paint."

• Balanced Scoring: With multiple players averaging between 8 to 15 points, UCLA possesses a balanced and unpredictable offense that can overwhelm UConn's defenses.

• Adaptability and Depth: UCLA's ability to rotate players effectively and adjust lineups during the game enhances their competitive edge.

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Final Predictions and Conclusion [43:55 - 46:58]

As the episode nears its conclusion, the hosts share their championship predictions:

• Ben Pickman confidently forecasts the UConn Huskies to clinch the national title, drawing parallels to the 2020 National Championship.

  Ben Pickman [43:55]: "The Yukon Huskies will be winning the championship on Sunday..."

• Chantel Jennings expresses a nuanced view, believing that whichever team triumphs between UConn and UCLA will likely secure the championship, citing Paige Beckers' exceptional performance and leadership.

  Chantel Jennings [44:28]: "I think whoever wins between UConn and UCLA will be the team that wins the national title."

• Sabrina Merchant emphasizes the unpredictability of tournament outcomes, highlighting past performances and the potential for upsets, although she leans towards UCLA based on seeding and player capabilities.

  Sabrina Merchant [45:19]: "I mean, I'm Queen Chalk. So number one, overall seed, UCLA."

Zena wraps up the episode by urging listeners to engage with the debate outcomes and share their predictions, reinforcing the interactive and community-driven spirit of the show.

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Key Takeaways

• South Carolina vs. Texas: A battle between South Carolina's seasoned strategy and Texas's robust defense, with historical matchups favoring South Carolina.

• UConn vs. UCLA: A clash of UConn's dominant scoring leader Paige Beckers against UCLA's versatile and balanced offense, with both teams demonstrating strategic depth and adaptability.

• Listener Engagement: The hosts encourage active participation, inviting listeners to weigh in on the debates and share their predictions for the championship.

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Notable Quotes

• Zena Keita [02:08]: "We're in Tampa, baby. It's the Final Four."

• Sabrina Merchant [07:49]: "Anytime you have a defense that can strangle you at the point of attack and in the paint, that's a pretty good recipe to shutting down opposing teams."

• Ben Pickman [11:16]: "South Carolina has even more experience. They have young players who are more productive and more important to the Gamecock success than the Texas Longhorns."

• Sabrina Merchant [16:23]: "Taylor Jones and Kyla Oldaker are playing better now than they have at any point during the season... that's where this is going to be one of the keys."

• Ben Pickman [15:43]: "South Carolina Gamecocks, who maybe should have been the number one overall seed... their transition defense is excellent."

• Chantel Jennings [28:45]: "UConn cannot guard UCLA one on one in the paint because no one can guard UCLA one on one in the paint."

• Ben Pickman [43:55]: "The Yukon Huskies will be winning the championship on Sunday..."

• Chantel Jennings [44:28]: "I think whoever wins between UConn and UCLA will be the team that wins the national title."

• Sabrina Merchant [45:19]: "I mean, I'm Queen Chalk. So number one, overall seed, UCLA."

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This episode of No Offseason offers a dynamic and insightful analysis of the NCAA Women's Final Four, combining statistical prowess with passionate debate. Whether you're a die-hard fan or a casual observer, the hosts provide compelling arguments and nuanced perspectives that enrich the conversation around women's basketball's pinnacle event.

Transcript

[Zena Caida]

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[Sabrina Merchant]

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[Zena Caida]

For every part of your itinerary grabbing.

[Sabrina Merchant]

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[Zena Caida]

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[Chantel Jennings]

McDonald's meets the Minecraft universe with one of six collectibles and your choice of a Big Mac or 10 piece McNuggets with spicy nether Flame sauce. Now available with a Minecraft Movie meal.

[Zena Caida]

At participating McDonald's for a limited time. A Minecraft movie only in theaters. Hello everyone and welcome to no off season presented by MassMutual. I'm Zena Caida.

[Chantel Jennings]

I'm Chantel Jennings.

[Sabrina Merchant]

I'm Sabrina Merchant.

[Ben Pickman]

And I'm Ben Pickman.

[Zena Caida]

And today on the show, I mean, what else is there to talk about? We're in Tampa, baby. It's the Final Four. And we're not just going to go through game by game what you can expect for the Final Four. Of course we're going to tell you what to look for, who's going to show up. We're going to give you that info, but we're going to do it a little bit more fun because, you know, we're in Florida. Why not? All right, so if you're new here, hit that follow button wherever you're listening. You make. You want to make sure you are staying up to date with us. And of course, if you want, come find us on YouTube and please reach out to us, leave us a comment wherever you're listening or a rating. Okay. Ben, Sabrina, Chantel, I don't know if you guys will identify with this, but first thing that the person that checked me in at my hotel goes, there's so many of you. And I go, what do you mean? She goes, tall people. And she like whispered it across the desk. And I was like, oh. And I looked around and it was just tall women everywhere. And she's like, it's not just the women though, it's the men. There was a seven foot man here and I was like, I wonder if that's Lauren Betts father. But either way, we're here in Tampa. We have descended upon Tampa for basketball. How are you guys feeling? You guys excited for the weekend?

[Chantel Jennings]

I feel like I'm not a tall media member, so I feel kind of left out of this grouping. Like, I mean, if we showed up with you, Xena, I don't think we would be considered tall media folks or tall folks. So we're not those, the former D1 basketball players. Like, like you.

[Sabrina Merchant]

So fair.

[Zena Caida]

Fair. But have you guys spotted anyone? Have you guys seen anyone that you're like, you know, not out outside of the media. Anyone from the college space that you're like, oh, saw this person today. Saw this person today.

[Sabrina Merchant]

Well, we did do media today, so we did see a lot of them, but okay, there you go. At the airport, I did see Angel McCaughtry, so that was.

[Zena Caida]

Oh, wait, that is super cool. I love Angel. That was like my number one doppelganger in high school. I was like, anytime somebody told me I looked like her, I was like, yes, Louisville. Thank you, Ben. Anyone for you?

[Ben Pickman]

No tall people. I did see some people hurtling on the University of Tampa track this morning on Thursday morning and thought about.

[Zena Caida]

There you go.

[Ben Pickman]

I did not run on the track. As a result, when I saw collegiate hurdles practice going on, I went somewhere else instead.

[Sabrina Merchant]

Good call.

[Zena Caida]

I do want to say good call exactly.

[Chantel Jennings]

On my flight from Minneapolis, there were a bunch of like, older, pretty fit dudes. And I was like, what? What's going on in Tampa? And then I sat next to a guy on the flight who's a former Notre Dame men's ice hockey player and he's like, oh, well, the largest over 50 ice hockey tournament in the country is happening this weekend in Tampa. And I was like, way to go ncaa. Just picking these cities where there's plenty of hotel rooms, obviously over 50.

[Zena Caida]

Ice hockey. Like, is there a schedule, a calendar? But these sports teams and sports leagues got to get it together. What's going on?

[Chantel Jennings]

Some of those people were tall. I mean, I don't think they were, like, 7 foot tall, so I don't think that's who was in your hotel. Xena. But there you go, you know, they're like, six, four, six three hockey dudes.

[Zena Caida]

That counts. That counts. Okay, well, I'm gonna wrap that up because clearly I'm staying with all the tall people.

[Sabrina Merchant]

We can get going about the over 50 hockey tournament, if you want.

[Chantel Jennings]

We got a lot to say. I got a lot of. I mean, if we want to do a podcast episode on that. We had a very lengthy convers about how they put together their roster this season so they wouldn't lose by adding more men who were 51. But that. I digress. That's a conversation for another day.

[Zena Caida]

Just at the cutoff. Just at the cutoff. Okay. I respect it. All right, well, let me get into what we're gonna be doing today, because it's gonna be fun. And I'm curious. All of you are very smart. Every time you come on this show, you give great insight and stats to support an argument. And I'm wondering, did any of you do debate club in high school or college?

[Chantel Jennings]

No.

[Ben Pickman]

No.

[Zena Caida]

All right, well, you're just smart and you just know how to, you know, make an argument for things. I did not do debate club either. I was a student body kind of person. Student body club president. That's why I'm, like, you know, hosting this. Oh, right now with you guys. But I'm gonna try and get my debate skills going because that's what we're gonna be doing today. Here's how it's going to work. We are initiating the great Final Four debate of 2025. Here's how it's gonna work. Each host, including me. I know they're including me in this, too. Has been assigned a different team, and we're gonna square off against each other to debate or at least try to convince one another which team is going to win their Final Four matchup tonight and make it to the title game. And how about picking winners for each debate? You, dear listener, you will be the one to decide. So you leave a comment or tweet us, hit us up on insta, you name it, Let us know who wins. The great Final four debate of 2025. That's official. That's copyrighted. It's in the works. Okay, first up, South Carolina versus Texas. Ben will be presenting for South Carolina and Sabrina for Texas. And we flipped a coin before we started recording. Ben, you are going first.

[Ben Pickman]

No, no, no. I won the coin toss and elected to defer to go second.

[Zena Caida]

Oh, my bad, my bad. Okay, so Sabrina's going first. Okay, got it. All right, so this debate, each person's gonna get about three to four minutes each to make their main argument, but then you can rebut against each other, go freely back and forth. And then myself, Chantelle, we'll throw out some questions if we have, you know, to get them going a little bit more. You guys ready? Ben? Sabrina?

[Sabrina Merchant]

I mean, I have to be ready, not Ben.

[Zena Caida]

Well, fair. Exactly. All right, well, Sabrina, I'm going to start the timer. Go.

[Sabrina Merchant]

All right, I have the Texas Longhorns, who are back in the Final Four for the first time since 2003. They have the second best net rating in the NCAA this season behind only UConn, but they are not playing UConn in this final Four games, so that's good news. They have played South Carolina three times this season, responded from the first loss with a win, and are going to respond from the second loss also with a win. This is a team that has been playing tremendously good defense over the course of the tournament. They have led wire to wire in two of their. They led after the first quarter for the entirety of the rest of the Illinois game and just put an absolute beatdown on tcu, a team that a lot of people had as a trendy upset pick heading into that Elite Eight game. And the Longhorns absolutely shut down what was the second best offense in the country, just with a stifling defensive performance. We're talking about the linchpins, Rory Harmon at point guard, and the combination of Taylor Jones and Kyla Oldacre at center. Anytime you have a defense that can strangle you at the point of attack and in the paint, that's a pretty good recipe to shutting down opposing. This is a team that doesn't have a ton of variance in the way they play because as my colleague Ben Pickman articulated so well before the start of the tournament, they don't take a lot of threes. So you know what you're going to get from them offensively, don't go through a lot of ruts. And that means that they're not dependent on jump shot variance, which is a good thing when you're in a new stage in the Final Four. Where emotions can get pretty high and you don't want to be subject to whether three pointers are going in or not. This is a team that takes care of the ball exceptionally well, doesn't turn it over all that often and that's an excellent recipe against a South Carolina team that thrives in transition. So ideally not going to give them a lot of opportunities to get going on the fast break. It is a team that has a lot of veterans. Rory Harmon is a senior, Taylor Jones is a sixth year senior, Kyla Oldaker is an upperclassman and they also have a good blend of youth that has injected a lot of life into them as of late. Jordan Lee is Probably the best 3 point shooter on the team, has been an excellent defender. Brianna Preston, another excellent point of attack defender that really helped bust Tennessee's offense and TCU's during that Birmingham regional. And then they have Jacqueline Munitando who's done a great job of stepping in for Leomore at that starting small forward position. Great burst of athleticism. This is the type of team that has the athletes that can contend with anybody in the country, including South Carolina, which is also one of the most athletic teams in the ncaa. I like an underdog. Texas has lost to South Carolina twice, but they did come back from the first one and I project that they're going to come back from the second one. They don't have the burden of the pressure of being the defending champion and no team has repeated AS champion since 2016, which puts a lot of extra, you know, burden on South Carolina to carry the weight of having won last season. Vic Schaefer also has a little bit of an underdog edge against Don Staley because maybe not so great for my argument, but he hasn't done very well in championship games against Don Staley, whether that's as Mississippi State or at Texas. I think it's time to break through, frankly. You know, this is just a wonderful, magical year for Texas. They won the SEC in their first season joining the conference, put together some of the most wins in program history. Madison Booker put together an All American season. Rory Harmon was able to come back from her ACL tear within 10 months and get back and has been playing marvelously over the course of the last couple months. Sometimes you just got to believe in a little bit of magic from the great state of Texas. And I think you look at a team that has again third best defense in the country, ninth best offense, second best overall net rating. All of those numbers collectively exceeds South Carolina and I think Beating a team three times in one season is exceptionally challenging. And I don't think that the Gamecocks are going to be able to get it done.

[Zena Caida]

Boom. Okay.

[Chantel Jennings]

I'd say you did pretty well, except for the part where you argued against yourself in terms of the coaching lineups.

[Sabrina Merchant]

But, you know, sometimes you just gotta acknowledge that there are factors working against him.

[Zena Caida]

Fair?

[Chantel Jennings]

Yeah, fair.

[Zena Caida]

Okay. So, Ben, rebuttals.

[Ben Pickman]

Yeah. For me, this matchup is a lot like that Spider man meme where you have two teams, Spider man staring at Spider Man. Except for, I think the objective observer would agree that one Spider man is a little bit better and a little bit stronger and a little bit more skilled than the other Spider Man. And that is the South Carolina Gamecocks in this analogy, compared to the Texas Longhorns. And how do we know that, you ask? It is because history is a great teacher in this example. Because as Sabrina said, these two teams have played three times. Season, most recently just a few weeks ago, less than a month ago. And we saw the result of that game that was a convincing win by South Carolina, 64, 45 in the SEC tournament final. A lot of the things Sabrina maps out also apply to South Carolina. She used words like physicality, physical defense, pack the paint. She talked about, you know, young players that are highly skilled and also experienced veterans. Those are, again, also things that apply to this Gamecocks team. Just that South Carolina has even more experience. They have young players who, you know, sure, someone like Matty Booker is an all American, but I would argue that South Carolina's young players, on the whole, are more productive and more important to the Gamecock success as well than the Texas Longhorns. South Carolina, admittedly, is not playing its best basketball right now. They have kind of, I would say, limped in to the Final Four by their standards. And they recognize that they are going to have to play an ugly game. And I do think that, you know, what they were able to overcome against Maryland and Duke, and winning by not playing their best is still a confidence booster. Knowing that they don't need to play their best to win. And now that they're going to play a familiar opponent in the Final Four, who doesn't, who, you know, will muck it up. Similarly, they still believe that, you know, they don't need to play a prolific offensive game to beat Texas. And they have done that this year. Again, they've scored 60 points, 60 plus points and beat them. Vic Schaefer has always said that the hardest game to win is that Elite 8 game. And I do think, you know, Sabrina throws out the pressure argument. I do think, you know, South Carolina, the pressure, I don't think it's like heaped on them right now. I don't think they really feel it as the defending champions. I don't think they felt it from the beginning of the season, from the beginning of the year. They never talked about trying to go undefeated. They just talked about kind of focusing on the next game. And I do think there is some weight that is even off of them that they're back at the Final Four and they're playing a familiar opponent. I think that actually frees them up because they know what they're getting themselves into. They know they could beat this team even if they don't play their A game. And we have seen that throughout this season. Again, I don't know, I mean, I think we're due for a Mylasia full Wiley game. You know, usually she ebbs and flows and we saw a subpar game by her standard against Duke in the Elite Eight. I think we're due for an explosion again in the Final Four here against Texas. I also think just from a strategic standpoint, we know what South Carolina is going to do. We know that they're going to sag off Texas shooters. That's exactly how they kind of beat them in the SEC tournament in that final. They basically just dared Texas to shoot. And while South Carolina isn't a great shooting team alone, like, I have a hard time believing that South Carolina isn't just going to do the exact same thing at its core. And while Texas knows that's coming, I'm not sure that they're a good enough three point shooting team to overcome kind of the strategy that South Carolina is going to map out. You know, I think you also run the risk if you're Texas by playing a different style than you've played all year. If you're suddenly in the Final Four on Friday night going to rely on the three point shot in a way that you haven't before. So, you know, I think there's a little bit of kind of mind game potential there. Just by baiting three point shooters, baiting players into taking three point shots, I think that's at play too. And then Sabrina mentioned it. Don Staley versus Vic Schaefer. We've seen the success that Don Staley has had. I think, you know, again, you have multiple days to prepare and more importantly, you have more days than Texas to prepare as well. Like they've been in the lab since Sunday. Evening preparing for this game. Whereas Texas really had a quick turnaround after their win on Monday night, flying in on Tuesday, you know, they've just had shorter prep time. So I think all that is why the South Carolina Gamecocks, who maybe I should make the case, should have been the number one overall seed.

[Sabrina Merchant]

You don't believe that they should be.

[Ben Pickman]

The favorite here against the Texas Longhorns.

[Zena Caida]

Okay, thank you debaters for giving us your takes on both. Chantelle, I'm just gonna go ahead and jump in here on my first question. My question is gonna be to Sabrina. Ben brings up a really great point about the game plan that South Carolina is going to utilize against Texas. And we saw South Carolina have to adjust their game plan against Duke's defense and they did a great job of slowing the game down, playing in the half court, setting up sets. I'm curious what you think Texas is going to be able to do to counter the defensive strategy that Dawn Staley and her Gamecocks are going to be able to set up for Texas.

[Sabrina Merchant]

Well, Texas has played against teams that pack the paint essentially all season. You know, that's what you're going to do against the team that shoots a lower three point rate than any other team in the country, right? 362nd out of 362 teams. So a team that, you know, sucks in their defense is not unlike what Texas has seen over the course the entire season. And I think Taylor Jones and Kyla Oldaker are playing better now than they have at any point during the season. So being able to establish that center presence is going to be crucial to, you know, dealing with a team that is going to try to beat you inside. Because the fact that Taylor Jones and Kyle, I think, are bigger than any of the South Carolina posts is going to be really important and they have to be stronger and assert that matchup. To me, that's where this is going to be one.

[Chantel Jennings]

I think that's a fair point. I feel like there's sort of a seeding of, you know, Texas has the interior advantage in this game as good as South Carolina has done since Ashlyn Watkins season ending injury at the beginning of the year. You know, I think Texas has the advantage there. Ben, you had said like, we're due for a Myelasia full Wiley game. And you also said that history is a good teacher. I'm curious what historical markers you will point to in terms of, you know, we've seen Malaysia sort of have these really big moments and then have lapse. And there are times even I think against duke, she played 11 minutes like Dawn Staley. Definitely doesn't have a ton of patience for some of the mistakes for Malaysia to play through. And so I'm just curious, what makes you think that we're due for this specifically with Malaysia?

[Ben Pickman]

I just think they know how dynamic she is and how important she is to their success offensively. And she is the kind of player that, if they are going to win, breaks them out of some of the, I don't know, bad habits or ruts that they fall into. And so she has that potential in a way that, frankly, no other player on the floor really does. You know, the other thing I think I would say Texas relies a lot on points off turnovers. They average almost 24 points per game, points off turnovers. But South Carolina, not exactly a high turnover team. And we have seen, I guess, Texas not convert in the same way on giveaways when they play South Carolina. They had just four points off turnovers when these two teams met in the SEC Championship. Right. That's indicative of South Carolina's transition defense and that even if they're going to commit turnovers, South Carolina is good enough on Trans D to get back and slow them down. I also think, you know, bench scoring is another variable here, right? We have seen certainly over this tournament, Texas bench Bree Preston, Kyla Oldacre, they've played really well. But if you're going to look to one team with the superior bench, it's South Carolina. It's not just Full Wiley, it's Joyce Edwards, it's Tessa Johnson. There's such an advantage in not knowing who you can key in on on a given night. I think that's a huge boost in terms of preparation because Texas, again, sure, they're familiar with South Carolina. They're not going to be surprised with their, you know, depth of options. But there is not one player on the Gamecocks you can kind of key in on. Whereas again, if you've had five days to prepare, you can key in on Madison Booker and Rory Harmon. And if you are successful at slowing them down, you put yourself in a really good position. You can't say the same thing on the other end if you're Texas looking.

[Sabrina Merchant]

At South Carolina, you know, I think that extra day of preparation that South Carolina has that you alluded to, Ben matters a lot less when you've already played a team three times. And both of those wins that South Carolina had were essentially home court wins. One of them was in Columbia, one of them was in Greenville. This is a Neutral site. I think that's going to matter a lot less. You know, just that home court advantage factored heavily into South Carolina win.

[Ben Pickman]

Do you agree with that? I mean, I just think, like, you know, people talk about the familiarity of playing a team for the fourth time that, like, game plan doesn't matter. I would argue that coaches, you know, the games are one on the margins, that if you can find one little advantage or two little advantages like that could be the difference. They're not rewriting game plans here, but if you can use your extra 24 hours, 36 hours to find a little nugget that you think you can exploit like, that very well could be the difference here. I do think that that does make a difference.

[Sabrina Merchant]

Well, it's not like they knew they were playing Texas for those full 24 to 36 hours. They could also have been preparing for TCU.

[Ben Pickman]

Yeah, that's true. But I think you as a coaching staff, you start to prepare both scouts, and we know that that's going on for, you know, that experienced staff.

[Sabrina Merchant]

And then as far as, like, his history, being our greatest instructor, I would like to point you to the last time that South Carolina was defending a title. They lost in the Final Four.

[Ben Pickman]

Yeah. Who did they play in that game?

[Sabrina Merchant]

Who? Doesn't matter. They lost in the Final Four.

[Ben Pickman]

Who is the best player on that team that they played in?

[Sabrina Merchant]

Madison Booker could be the best player in this game. And as long as the best player is on the opposing team, I think that's a good recipe for an upset.

[Ben Pickman]

You don't believe that?

[Sabrina Merchant]

I think Madison Booker could easily be the best player in this game.

[Ben Pickman]

No, she could be, but. But you don't believe the opposite's going to happen here, Sabrina. And you know how I know that? You know how I know this at the end of the. Because you have made a prediction.

[Chantel Jennings]

Well, we don't need to. You know, we're all playing a part here.

[Sabrina Merchant]

We're all playing a part that has also written for the last three days about how South Carolina is not playing their best basketball right now.

[Ben Pickman]

I opened my argument with that. I mean, I really do think that to be the case, but I will pick them nevertheless.

[Zena Caida]

Okay, I think we're gonna wrap this up. This is really good back and forth here, but it's not up to us. It's not up to us. It's up to the listener. Listeners, you've heard Sabrina's argument for Texas. You've heard Ben's argument for South Carolina. What is your belief? Have you been swayed have you been bought in by one of these two writers? Let us know, Leave a comment, Tweet at us, let us know who won the debate and we'll see. I mean, obviously we'll see what the outcome of the game is, but we'll see if one of these writers better predicted the game and also better debated which team should win. 21 year old flaw J. Johnson has built an impressive career, making strides on the basketball court and the rap scene. A national champion and rising music star, she embodies the passion and determination required to excel in both worlds. But Flage's success hasn't come without challenges. The financial services industry has often overlooked the needs of women, leaving many feeling misunderstood or treated differently by financial professionals. For Flauje, this reality strengthened her resolve to take control of her financial future. Just as Flauje trains for success on the court, she understands the importance of preparation when it comes to her finances. MassMutual, a leader in helping people create a strong financial future, understands the unique financial challenges that women face. That's why they offer tools and personalized help so that women like Flaujay can confidently plan and protect their financial futures, all with the goal of creating better financial outcomes for women everywhere. Visit massmutual.com stayready to learn more. Make your next move with American Express business Platinum earn 5 times Membership Rewards points on flights and prepaid hotels booked on amextravel.com and with a welcome offer of 150,000 points. After you spend $20,000 on purchases on the card within your first three months of membership, your business can soar to new heights. Terms apply. Learn [e-mail] Business Platinum AmEx Business Platinum Built for business by American Express okay, Chantelle, it's you and I. I'm not gonna lie, I'm a little nervous, particularly because of the rebuttals I'm trying to figure out. I feel like I have an easy team to be able to argue for, but yeah, we'll see what happens. Don't go hard on me, but don't go soft on me. I don't know guys. Either way, I got to make the argument for UConn, so I'm just going to go ahead. I actually like kind of wrote down my notes because I wanted to make sure I showed up properly in front of you guys. All right, so let's get into it. In my opinion, if you are making a case for who is going to win between UConn and UCLA this showdown, I think you have to ride with the Huskies you gotta go with the Huskies. And I think it's the obvious thing. Paige Beckers, she's on another level right now, okay? Sis is averaging 29 points per game in the tournament. Okay? She scored 40 points. She has had her third straight 30 point game coming into this one. I mean, she's making history as she goes through, and she's also doing it super efficiently. For those of you that don't know what 50, 40, 90 is, everyone on this podcast does. But for those of you that don't know, that's splits, right? You're shooting 50% from the floor, you're shooting 40% from three, and you're shooting 90% from free throws. It is not normal for people to be able to do this consistently, especially at this level of stage in the tournament. 50, 40, 90. And she's providing that. That's what Paige is providing to her team right now. And I think that that is what's going to be uplifting. UConn. Because if you watch that game against USC and you watch the swagger with which she moves, the rest of the UConn team is picking up on that swagger, including the Youngins, the Bibbiz. And I'm specifically talking about Sarah Strong, okay? Sarah Strong is a freshman phenom. She doesn't look like she's a freshman. She doesn't even talk like she's a freshman. If you've heard her interviews, she sounds like she's been here before. Sounds like her mom, Alison Feaster, who's played in the W, who's who upset Tara Vanderveer in the sweet 16 when her mom played for Harvard way back in the day. I think it was 1999. Sarah Strong is of this caliber. She knows how to play, she knows how to meet the moment. And I think that's huge when you pair that alongside a Paige Beckers, who last year, let's be real, had to kind of carry the team on her back. Yes, she had Nico Mule, yes, she had Aaliyah Edwards, but she didn't have much else this year. She's got a strong crew around her, including, pun intended, Sarah Strong, that's been strong in the paint. She's been mobile on the perimeter. She is an amazing defender and she doesn't shrink from the moment. And that is what really, really matters against a team like UCLA that has had all the fanfare around it all season. And they also need to make sure that they meet the moment. In the last eight games, UConn has won seven of them, but still, UCLA has the number one seed overall and they also have Aloran Betts. And the strong Betts matchup is going to be an interesting one because it's going to be a matter of who can contain inside right, who can contain Lauren Betts inside. And UCLA is vulnerable when Lauren Betts is not scoring to the ability that she can and when she's in foul trouble. We've seen this throughout the tournament. When Lauren Betts goes and sits on the bench, UCLA looks a little suspect, look a little sus, okay? But the depth that UCLA wants, UConn has, and I'm thinking about the X factor. Caitlin Chen. Caitlin Chen showing UP Last game 15.6 of 9 From outside the arc. I think that's a person that even if Az Fudd has another eight point game like she had against usc, you still have the depth across the bench. Include or excuse me, across your roster, including Caitlin Chen being a distributor, being a scorer and people coming off the bench and stepping up. Ashlyn Shade, KK Arnold, Ice Brady even coming in and making things a little bit more difficult. The only thing that UCLA, in my opinion, really has over UConn is size on the perimeter. But I think that that can work in UConn's benefit when it comes to the transition game. UConn likes to run and UCLA struggles to track in transition. We've seen this all season, so I really think there's an advantage there. Last but not least, team defense. UConn has been holding opponents to just 52 points per game in this tournament. That's clamps, that's cookies. That's. That's defense that you need, especially against a UCLA team that can get hot, especially if Lauren Betts is killing inside or getting the ball inside and seeing her perimeter threats. You want UConn to be forcing turnovers. You want them to swarm you. You want them to flip defense into offense. And this is what they've done. They did it against usc, they've done it all season. This is who they are. And I think that kind of toughness, it shows up in March and this is the moment for Paige Beckers and Geno to really team up and take down the Bruins. I feel like Corey Close, congratulations for coach of the year. But Gino holds the record most winning games, most amount of games won in college basketball. And I think this one is just going to be another one. That's my argument. Shantel.

[Chantel Jennings]

Well, I think we can start here and I'll cite the great Sabrina Merchant here when she was asked for her bold prediction for this tournament, she said, it's going to be boring. It's going to be really chalky. There aren't going to be a lot of upsets. And she was right. She was very right. And what is, what is chalkier than the number one overall seed beating a number two seed? One beats two. Okay, so that's where we'll start. The other thing, just from your argument that I wanted to bring up, you said the only advantage that Yukon has or that UCLA has a size on the perimeter. And I'll agree with you, they definitely have that. But I'm curious who on UConn's roster is 6 foot 7 on the interior? A quick perusal of their roster will show no one. They do have six foot five. Janna El Alfie, I will give you that her best game this year was against South Carolina. And after that I was like a Jana L. Alfie believer. And to quote Gino Oriemma, who was on our podcast shortly after, he said, I forget who are they were playing Seton hall or someone. He said, yeah, but did you see her last night? She was horrible. Which has been a lot of her performances since then. She hasn't had nearly the kind of performance she had against South Carolina since then. She's 6 foot 5. Past her they have 6 foot foot 3 ice Brady, we had some 6 foot 1 Aubrey Griffin minutes recently. She's played in 14 games this year. But I'm not sure who in that group can sort of match up with Lauren Betts one on one. And that's because the answer is no. 1. UConn cannot guard UCLA one on one in the paint because no one can guard UCLA one and one in the paint. And I think beyond that, even when they double team her, she's a really good passing bag. I think this whole team is really unselfish. UCLA as a whole, they have a lot of players who sort of average in that 8 to 10 point range. But within that, you have players who can sort of pop off and have a huge night even in the last few weeks. Kiki Rice averages 13 a game. She had 23 against Richmond. Gabriela Haquez averages 10. She had 18 against LSU. Tamiya Gardner averages 8. She had 15 against LSU, including five three pointers. I think the strength here, and maybe why I believe in UCLA even more now than I did a week ago, was that I've talked to a lot of coaches about game planning for ucla and they've said, you know, kind of your best hope is to get Lauren Betts and foul trouble and that's exactly what LSU did. They had her pick up two fouls in the first quarter of that game. She went to the bench. And what did UCLA do? They beat LSU 22 to 12 in the second quarter. They had five three pointers or four. Tamia Gardner hit three. I know Gabriela Hawkes hit one. And they just sort of showed this other element of themselves that even with Lauren Betts on the bench, they weren't going to fold. And a good team like LSU dug themselves a hole in that quarter that they just couldn't come out of, no matter the heroics that Flage had in that game. And so I think that really impresses me. And the other thing that I think they definitely have over UConn is that they have a versatility of lineups here that UConn just simply does not have to have. A player like Tamia Gardner, who is a 6 foot 4 forward who is also your best 3 point shooter on the team percentage wise is really impressive. They can go big by running out hurt, Jania Barker, Angela Dugalic, Lauren Betts, like they that length is sort of all over the floor. But you can sort of go with like a larger lineup. In football. They would call it a jumbo lineup. I don't know. They would call it basketball. Maybe Corey has a name for it. They can go smaller with Gabriela Hawkez, London Jones, Kiki Rice. And so they have a lot of different options that I'm just not sure about that matchup when it comes to the UCLA UConn matchups. And then when we're talking about three point shooting, you brought up Sarah Strong, you brought up Paige Becker's their best three point shooter is Az Fudd. And in the last two games she shot 28% from three. She missed her first nine shots against USC in that Elite Eight game. I'm just not positive that she is sort of on it enough in this game to sort of go against the depth and the versatility of weapons that UCLA has. And so for all of those factors in this debate, I am choosing ucla.

[Sabrina Merchant]

All right, I have a first question for Chantel. As much as I love it.

[Chantel Jennings]

No, please stop. I don't want that you start any. You're not allowed to ask me follow ups if I cited you. Ben, do you have anything.

[Ben Pickman]

You can go first. Sabrina, Damn it.

[Sabrina Merchant]

I completely agree with your point that the biggest challenge for UConn is going to be how to defend Lauren Betts. But how do you see UCLA guarding a team like UConn that can spread out. Five out.

[Chantel Jennings]

Well, I didn't talk about that in my argument because I don't think it's a great point for ucla. I think this is where they're going to have to rely on a UConn not being. Being super great from range. Like, you're just gonna have to give something up. And I think here's where you're gonna have to trade a few twos for threes and hope that the two pointers are hitting at a higher rate than the three pointers and that's where it can even out a little bit and hope that Lauren Betts, who's the best post in the country, can sort of be that difference maker for you. And on the outside, hope that the rotations especially, you know, whatever needs to be done if you're. If they're gonna double down on Sarah, whatever they're gonna do, if they're gonna run that sort of matchup zone that they run, like whatever they're gonna do, they're just going to have to bank on the fact that Lauren is going to make up that difference with a high percentage of 2. She's averaging 20 and 10. I think she has to. She has to be better than her average in this game to beat Yukon.

[Ben Pickman]

I think it's a good point. Chantal, I will say I enjoyed your argument going one, one is greater than two. That was my favorite point that you made.

[Chantel Jennings]

Thanks.

[Ben Pickman]

I appreciated that kind of analysis.

[Chantel Jennings]

I'm good at math.

[Ben Pickman]

You only get that kind of analysis on the show. I guess I'll throw a question out at Xena. And look, I've been riding. I will admit I am a biased party here in that I have been riding the Huskies all tournament long. So that is my current bias. Though last year I did pick the Bruins to win the title. So not wrong, just early. Potentially. I say all that to say I've.

[Sabrina Merchant]

Heard Ben say, not wrong, just early about 35 times over the last three days. We've talked a lot about.

[Chantel Jennings]

We've talked a lot about getting T shirts. And I feel like between Duke, you could have been better save it for Arkansas. And not wrong, but early. We have three really good taglines here.

[Ben Pickman]

I think no off season coming to merch. That'll be our merch. I guess my question for you, though, Xena, is, you know, you acknowledge that UConn is playing its best basketball of the season now. And actually Corey Close made that same point on Thursday in her press conference. But if you take away the South Carolina win in February, which I get, is an important win. You know, it's not exactly like UConn has been beating up on really good teams throughout the regular season. We saw them lose to Notre Dame. We saw them lose to usc. We saw them lose to Tennessee. Their conference not as strong as some other conferences like, without a convincing win. That's partly why they were 2 seed. I guess. What gives you confidence that this UConn team, you know, is. Is capable of winning big games, especially against a Big Ten opponent, because they've been more inconsistent in high leverage competition than I think people want to acknowledge.

[Zena Caida]

Yeah, I think you. I mean, the use of big twice in that. That statement of big game, Big Ten. Interesting, because I think it is a big moment. I 1000% believe that if between these two teams, the player that has shown up in big moments and been capable of showing up in big moments is Paige Becker's. We've seen Lauren Betts, of course, play big and be a big factor for ucla, but has she really shown up in this sort of an environment yet? Have we seen Corey Close show up in this sort of environment yet? Yes. Sarah Strong is a freshman, but 22 and 17 in that last game showed me that this sort of stage is not something that she's scared of. And it really comes down to a swagger, a demeanor in which you come into this game and a confidence with which you play. And I'm looking at UConn right now, and I don't want to judge it too hard, but the way that their team is moving and the way that they're acting even off, like, of just their social media, just like the post game pressers, and they're feeling really calm, cool and collected coming into this space and as if like, no, we're supposed to be here. We messed up last year, but we're supposed to be here. And I feel like that is gonna influence the way that they show up and lock in. And I also think that there's something to be said about the way that UConn is closing the season. Cause sometimes that's when you hit momentum and that's when you hit your stride is towards the end of the season. Maybe they learned some lessons from those early losses in the year, but right now, all that matters is the game that's in front of you. And if you've got Paige Beckers coming in, averaging almost 30 points a game, playing so well, locked in, and everyone else is kind of following in line behind that, I think that gives you an advantage and the composure you need to perform on this Kind of stage. Chantelle. Come at me, sis.

[Chantel Jennings]

Okay, Xena, you took a cross country flight today. I'm just curious how you're feeling.

[Sabrina Merchant]

I did.

[Chantel Jennings]

You flew from LA to Tampa. How are you feeling? Your legs feel good?

[Zena Caida]

You know, I'm old. I'm old. Chantel, don't do that. I'm old. So I don't, you know, I don't circulate blood around my body as, as well as young college students do. But yeah, no, I mean it's a, it's a fair point. UConn looked a little tired when the band was in front of him ball on their clarinets.

[Chantel Jennings]

They and Gino Auriemma has talked about this. They have the shortest turnaround of any team in the Final Four this week. They played a really late game Monday night in Spokane. So twice in one week. Now they will have done cross country flights with three hour time changes. First going east to west, now going west to east. They flew here on Tuesday. I went from Central to Pacific to Eastern time and my body still doesn't know what's going on. Granted, I'm in my mid-30s. I am not an elite college athlete and I'm sure that they are doing things to counteract that. But I do feel like the body clocks and the time change and the jet lag and the six hour flights, like that is something that is a factor. And like Ben said, these games are one on the margins. We're talking about two teams that are elite, that are prepared, that are coming for this moment. And when you look at the margins like two six hour flights in the span of a week, those time changes, those could be some margins that might matter.

[Sabrina Merchant]

I think the history of the super regional, the teams that have won on Sunday versus Monday are undefeated in the Final Four.

[Chantel Jennings]

Oh, interesting. Thank you, Sabrina.

[Sabrina Merchant]

Sabrina just does not bode well for my Texas argument.

[Ben Pickman]

But I was just gonna say, Sabrina, is there a reason why you just threw that up?

[Sabrina Merchant]

It just occurred to me as Chantel was talking.

[Zena Caida]

Okay, that's fair. That's fair. Health is real. Health is real. I want to get back to a little bit of X's and O's though real quick, Chantel, because I think, Ben, you might have been the one to ask about, you know, spreading the floor. My question is if the matchup is, you know, I don't know. Lauren Betts against Janelle Alfie. They find a way to do a cross screen, get Strong in front of Lauren Betts. They pull her out, away from the basket and Sarah Strong is taking Betts one on one to the basket getting her in foul trouble. What happens if Lauren Betts has to sit for a while with ucla? You talked about the dynamic lineups, like what, what do you anticipate happening for that?

[Chantel Jennings]

I mean at that point then Janiyah Barker is on the floor. I'd like to quote a coach if I can. I don't know if I'm allowed to curse this much on the pod, but we'll have a story running on the site this week actually on Friday when this runs. I spoke with five coaches who scouted every or played against every team and this specific coach was talking to me about playing ucla. This is a coach who game planned for UCLA and this coach was saying this specifically, like if other players get in foul trouble, if other players are not able to be in the game. They said okay, let's say those guys don't play good and you put Barker in. I mean God damn, she's really good, like really good. This is an all, all SEC player that Corey Close is bringing off the bench. Like what a luxury to have someone like that you're bringing off the bench. She might not have sort of the all around game of someone like Sarah Strong who is, you know, a total three level scorer. I love Sarah Strong's game so I will see that. But I think defensively with her athleticism, her length, her speed, her quickness, her lateral movement, like Janiyah Barker is someone that defensively can hold up to, you know, Jana L. Alfie doesn't have that kind of mobility in the post. Sarah Strong does. But I think what you can bring off the bench, whether it's Tamiya, whether it's janaya, I think UCLA has the depth there and they do run nine, 10 deep. Corey Close is very active with her subbing. I was not going to bring that up as a part of my argument because it's not necessarily something I always love. But I think because of that heavy subbing this season you have a lot of players who have played in big minutes that they can rely on to call on those players when they need them.

[Zena Caida]

Okay, well it will be a battle of the depth of Yukon versus the depth of.

[Chantel Jennings]

I'm very excited for the explicit warning on this pod now because I said the F word twice.

[Zena Caida]

Anyways, it'll be fine if you heard the bleep. That's what we did anyways. This is good. This was fun. I need your help though guys. All of you listening. You gotta help us figure out who won those debates and if the winners line up with who you think is actually gonna win tonight. We got all our social handles and our info in the episode description below. Or just Google us. That's cool. I've never said that before. Just Google us, share the episode and let us know who you think won the debate and who you think will win later. Speaking of winners, we're just going to go ahead and head over into a little prediction corner. Without knowing the outcomes to the games tonight, I want some predictions from you all on who's going to win it all.

[Ben Pickman]

Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. I don't know if you knew this, but anyone can get the same Premium Wireless for $15 a month plan that I've been enjoying. It's not just for celebrities. So do like I did and have one of your assistant's assistants switch you to Mint Mobile today.

[Zena Caida]

I'm told it's super easy to do@mint.

[Sabrina Merchant]

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[Zena Caida]

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[Sabrina Merchant]

Taxes and fees, extra fee full terms@mint mobile.com Pro baller Lonzo Ball for Buzzballs.

[Zena Caida]

Ready to go cocktails take 12 buzz balls just dropped their biggest blue balls.

[Sabrina Merchant]

Script says Biggie's blue balls Lonzo take.

[Zena Caida]

13 blue balls just drop biggest buzz.

[Ben Pickman]

Balls let's try a vocal exercise.

[Zena Caida]

Buzz Balls Biggies Blue Balls Buzz Balls Biggies Blue Balls Big balls just drop.

[Ben Pickman]

Get Blue balls this season with Buzz.

[Zena Caida]

Balls please you're responsibly Buzz Balls available.

[Ben Pickman]

In spirit wine & malt. 15% Alco by Volvo and Buzzballs LLC.

[Zena Caida]

Carrollton, Texas Spring Fest and Ego Days are here at Lowe's right now. Get a free select EGO 56 volt battery with purchase of a select trimmer, blower or mower kit. Plus shop today for new and exclusive items you need for your lawn. So get ready for spring with the latest in innovation from Ego, the number one rated brand in cordless outdoor power only at Lowes we help you save offer valid through 4 2. Selection varies by location while supplies last. Ben, I'm going to go with you first. Who do you think is going to win it all on Sunday?

[Ben Pickman]

The Yukon Huskies will be winning the championship on Sunday and I expect the game to look a lot like the 2020. I guess the 2022 national championship. The game in which South Carolina beat University of Connecticut. In which it becomes very apparent very early on that UConn is better than their opponent. Who in this case is going to be South Carolina. I'm expecting a little flip of the script from that title game in Minneapolis.

[Zena Caida]

Boom. Okay, Chantelle, up next.

[Chantel Jennings]

I'm a little torn here. I think whoever. I'll caveat this. Whoever wins UCLA, UConn, wins the national championship is. Is what I think. And I have gone back and forth on that game. When we had to make our picks picks last week, Even after watching UConn in Spokane, I picked UCLA. I had also seen UCLA and Spokane, but after sort of seeing how they played, I went with ucla. There is a part of me, though, that sort of feels like Paige Beckers is on this mission this season. And I believe it's Ben who always says, pick the best player to win in these sort of situations. And I. I do think the best player left in the tournament right now is Paige Beckers. I think the second best is Lauren Betts, which makes the song Hard Decision. So I'll. I'll say right now UConn, but I do think it's whoever wins between UConn and UCLA will be the team that wins the national title.

[Zena Caida]

Okay, Sabrina.

[Sabrina Merchant]

I mean, I'm. I'm Queen Chalk. So number one, overall seed, ucla. The best player thing is nice, but Caitlin Clark did not win a title the last two years. So who's to say that always works?

[Zena Caida]

Ooh, that's a really good point. That's a good point. Oh, I'm. I'm struggling. Cause I'm. I'm telling you, I don't. I never want to bet against Dawn Staley. I never want to bet against her. However, that Duke game made me look a little differently at the Gamecocks of just how much they could control a game and also control their own destiny when defense is turned up. And I just feel like whoever is going to win that UConn UCLA game is going to give them a run for their money. So I think I might be going UConn. I'm also very much on the Paige Beckers train right now. She's playing some inspired basketball, and I used to hate that term, but it's real and I'm seeing it, and I'm like, I really think she's gonna will her way to a championship.

[Chantel Jennings]

Xena, I was really hoping you were gonna go with a dad joke and say you don't bet against Dawn Staley, but you do bets against Don Staley.

[Zena Caida]

That would have been good. That would have been good. Oh, by the way, on that note, I got a really great dad joke in my Uber on the way to my hotel. In Tampa. Guys, what type of room doesn't have walls?

[Ben Pickman]

This is really good radio.

[Zena Caida]

It's a mushroom. Okay, that's all we've got for you guys today. Thank you Ben. Thank you Sabrina and Chantel. Thank you all for listening. Couple Programming Notes as we head into this momentous weekend, we will be hitting your feeds with an audio only show sometime on Saturday afternoon or evening. I will prepare another dad joke for that. So just be mentally ready. Uh, we're gonna be breaking down the final four and looking ahead to the title game. Then we'll be back in your feed on Monday morning with our reactions to the big game itself. There will be no pod on Tuesday next week, but we will be coming to you on Wednesday and Friday. And don't forget, as always, there is more to read and watch over at our partner the Yahoo. Sports hub. So check it out. Sports.yahoo.com women-sports on behalf of the Athletic, I'm Zena Keda. Thanks for listening. Thanks for listening to our dad jokes and we will see you next time. No Off Season is hosted by Zena Keda with Chantelle Jennings, Sabrina Merchant and Ben Pickman. It's produced by Tanika Perot. Our executive producers are Andrea B. Scott and Cassius Fleming. Our theme music is by Marcus Begala. Brenna Haupt is our video editor. Shannon Ryan is managing editor of women's basketball at the Athletic. Jesse Burton is our head of audio and Tim McMaster is our director of audio oper. 21 year old flaw J. Johnson has built an impressive career, making strides on the basketball court and the rap scene. A national champion and rising music star, she embodies the passion and determination required to excel in both worlds. But Flawje's success hasn't come without challenges. The financial services industry has often overlooked the needs of women, leaving many feeling misunderstood or treated differently by financial professionals. For Flauje, this reality strengthened her resolve to take control of her financial future. Just as Flauje trains for success on the court, she understands the importance of preparation when it comes to her finances. Massmutual, a leader in helping people create a strong financial future, understands the unique financial challenges that women face. That's why they offer tools and personalized help so that women like flaujay can confidently plan and protect their financial futures, all with the goal of creating better financial outcomes for women everywhere. Visit massmutual.com stayready to learn more.