← No Offseason: The Athletic Women's Basketball Show
No Offseason: The Athletic Women's Basketball Show
The Liberty take game 3 of The Finals as Aces lose Chelsea Gray to injury
00:51:58
Loading summary
Transcript59 lines
- [00:00]
Sponsor Host
Today's episode is brought to you by Shopify, who know very well that when you're starting something new, it seems like that to do list can just keep on growing. When we started this very podcast, we had to figure out all on our own how to get the show on the air, how to set topics, do the research, find sponsors, learn how to grow the audience. And that was all without even launching an online store or selling any merchandise. So finding the right tool to help simplify that to do list and streamline things and get things done can be a game changer for millions of businesses. Businesses that game changing tool is Shopify. Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world and 10% of all E commerce in the United States. From household names like Mattel and Gymshark to brands just getting started with hundreds of ready to use templates, Shopify helps you build a beautiful online store to match your brand style. It is packed with helpful AI tools to help with content creation that is going to help you write product descriptions, page headlines and even enhance your product photography. You can get the word out like you have a marketing team behind you, even if you don't. And best yet, Shopify is your commerce expert with world class expertise in everything from managing inventory to international shipping to processing returns and beyond. So if you're ready to sell, you're ready for Shopify. Turn your big business idea into With Shopify on your side, sign up for your $1 per month trial and start selling today at shopify.com TSS go to shopify.com TSS one more time shopify.com TSS.
- [01:39]
Liquid IV Host
Love looks different for everyone, especially when it comes to all the ways you treat and celebrate yourself. I'm a big hammock head Sunshine a hammock, a paperback western. That's my kind of everyday indulgence. And you can gift yourself the everyday indulgence of extraordinary hydration with Liquid IV powered by Liv Hydro Science. Visit LiquidIV.com to fall in love with flavors like the zesty new hydration Multiplier, sugar free Raspberry Lemonade and use code no dunks to save 20% off your first order. Liquid IV is easy and convenient. You just tear, pour and enjoy. It's my go to when I'm getting a pump in or handing out buckets, but it's great for staying hydrated during long days, enjoying the outdoors or any other time you need some hydration in your body. Liquid IV offers so many true to fruit flavors, whether they be hydration multipliers like acai berry, lemon, lime and pina colada or sugar free like raspberry lemonade, white peach and rainbow sherbet. The flavors are always true to fruit, break the mold and your own ritual. Just one stick and 16 ounces of water hydrates better than water alone because Liquid IV is powered by LIV Hydro Science, an optimized ratio of electrolytes, essential vitamins and clinically tested nutrients that turn ordinary water into extraordinary hydration. You're getting three times the electrolytes of the leading sports drink, plus eight essential vitamins and nutrients. And Liquid IV is always non gmo, vegan, gluten free, dairy free and soy free. So treat yourself to extraordinary hydration from Liquid IV. Get 20% off your first order at Liquid IV when you go to Liquid IV.com and use code NO DUNKS at checkout. That's 20% off your first order with code nodunks@liquidiv.com Summer is almost here and.
- [03:41]
Wayfair Host
There'S no better place to go for outside furniture than Wayfair. Wayfair's huge selection of outdoor essentials will help you make your outdoor space more comfortable, functional and most importantly, more you. Get your outdoor space ready today so you can enjoy it all season long. When you have kids, they love to be outside, so you gotta be out there to watch them. Wayfair can have outdoor sofas, maybe a set of chairs, a gazebo, some umbrellas because it's really hot down here in the South. No matter the need, Wayfair's huge selection of home items makes it easy to find exactly what's right for you. There's something for every style and every home. No matter your space or budget, Wayfair makes it easy to tackle your summer home goals with endless inspiration for every space and budget, including the outdoors. Free and easy delivery, even on the big stuff. No more huge delivery fees for patio furniture. Get big stuff like patio sets, gazebos, hot tubs, outdoor dining sets and more shipped free. Find all your outdoor must haves from seating to pool lounges to trampolines all in one convenient place. Shop a huge, huge selection of outdoor furniture online this summer. Get outside with wayfair. Head to wayfair.com right now. That's W A Y F A I R.com Wayfair Every style, every home.
- [05:11]
Zena Kaeda
For the Athletic I'm Zena Kaeda and this is the Athletic Women's Basketball show presented by Michelob Ultra the Liberty. Keep their finals hopes alive and force the Aces to put their brooms away by taking down the aces in Game 3 of the WNBA Finals, winning 87 to 73. I got Ben Pickman and Sabrina Merchant here to break it all down. The gang is back together. We've been pretty separate, y'all. It's been. It's been quite a. It's been quite a few, two weeks here. But we are here to talk about this very, I would say, series changing game. But before we dive into the particulars of the game, we know there was a bigger storyline that came out of it, and it was on this Aces side rather than the Liberty side. Aces floor captain Chelsea Gray went down with an apparent foot injury through the fourth quarter and had to hobble off the court to the locker room. She was reported by Christina Williams of Girl Talk Sports TV to have left the arena in crutches. Sabrina, for those of us watching at home, we had to see that agonizing video of Chelsea Gray just yelling out in clear pain in the back corridors of Barclays Center. It was clear that whatever happened to her foot, her leg, whatever, is serious. But I know as of today, we still don't have any more insight on her injury or her timeline. Have you heard about when you can expect to get that information?
- [06:46]
Sabrina Merchant
Well, the Aces had an optional shoot around today, the day after game one, and then elected to cancel said optional shooting workout. So I'm assuming that can't be good. Probably don't want to face media if you don't want to answer questions about something you don't want to talk about, but that's, you know, that's all speculation. We, we all saw, you know, the same thing on your tv, whether you were in the arena or watching, you know, on espn. She had to leave the floor. Like, Becky Hammond was asking her if she was okay even before she asked us about. Right. And then 30 seconds later, she leaves the floor. We saw the video of her, like, hobbling in the locker room. You know, there's that footage of her potentially saying something popped while she was on the bench. Like, that's the one word I could see her mouthing was popped, which is literally the last thing you want to hear. But, you know, I don't really want to speculate about anything without having further details. The Aces, we'll be practicing on Tuesday. We'll have a better idea once we get a chance to talk to Becky Hammond, who presumably cannot say at this point that she has not talked to the trainers. So, you know, that's. That's what we're waiting on. But it's. It just sucks, you know, this is the 2022 Finals MVP. This is like, the best point guard in the world, arguably, like, you know, the USA point guard. Yeah, she should be playing.
- [08:00]
Zena Kaeda
Yeah. Yeah. It was incredibly heart wrenching to see and to hear that. You never want anyone to get injured, period. You don't want them to get injured at this juncture in their season as they're fighting for a championship. You just mentioned USA Basketball thinking about the Olympics next year. Right. Whatever it is, you just wish nothing but, you know, positive hopes for her health, both physically and mentally. I can only imagine the sentiment from her team just immediately after the fact. In the Post presser. What were some of the comments, you know, Becky Hammond and her. Her teammates were making about Chelsea's potential absence?
- [08:40]
Sabrina Merchant
You know, they were oddly, like, measured about the whole thing. You know, they just lost a finals game. Obviously, nobody wants to be in that situation. They were very eager to win, finish this out in the back to Vegas. Everybody just wants to be home after such a long season, you know, And Becky was asked, like, what would happen if Chelsea were on unavailable to play? And she, you know, gave the stock answer of, yeah, Jackie and Kelsey would get more minutes, they'd run more point guard. Maybe Sidney Coulson comes in, like, you know, it's a collective effort, and there wasn't any sort of doom and gloom to their vibe when they came out, you know, so that at least is encouraging. You know, if it was something that was immediately season ending or that traumatic, you think that Asia and Kelsey would be wearing it on their faces. But instead, they were. They're pretty upbeat considering that they had just lost a game in the finals again, the first game that the Aces have lost since August 28th. So it's been a while. Like, they don't have to deal with defeat all too often. Yeah, I. I didn't really get the sense that this was a catastrophe from their, you know, vibes on the podium, which, you know, gives me some hope that even if it's a limited Chelsea Gray, we'll still be able to see some Chelsea Gray going forward.
- [09:48]
Zena Kaeda
Okay. Okay. Well, we at the Athletic definitely want to wish her just good health, good vibes, and just thanking her and her teammates as she hopefully doesn't have anything crazy, but just recovers really, really quickly and really well. So with that said, Ben, let's get into this game. Okay. Because long before Chelsea exited the game, the Aces looked disoriented. The Aces looked out of sync, and it definitely seemed like it was due to the Liberty's renewed sense of self, especially now that they were back in Barclays center, this was record attendance in Barclays Center. They put the drapes down from the top level of the arena. It was packed in there. There was definitely an energy buzzing around the Liberty. What did you sense in them as they warmed up and just prior to the game as they prepared for this?
- [10:46]
Ben Pickman
Well, one of the things I think that was so interesting and you mentioned the attendance was that the New York Liberty didn't even know what it was going to be like to play in front of 17,000 fans. Right. This is the most fans that they have played in front of all year. And yes, they are there to support the home team, but there was even still an added energy and added juice that players were looking forward to, but still were a little bit unsure of just how loud it was going to get. I had some players tell me on Friday and Saturday practices in the lead up, even they weren't sure just how they were going to feel. One of the things on the vibes of this series that I that's been kind of funny to me, whether we're in Las Vegas or in in Brooklyn now, is that neither team really is saying too many nice things about the respective cities, the host cities. Now you may be a Las Vegas fan or a Brooklyn fan, but certainly by the end of the liberties time in Las Vegas, all of them were talking about how they were ready to go home, ready to get out of their hotel, to go back to the east coast to be with their families, all that kind of stuff. And even on Friday and Saturday before game three was played, I was talking to with some aces people at practice and they were saying the same thing. They were stuck in traffic. They were a little late for their practice on Friday, like, and Saturday. It was unclear if they were even going to show up at Barclays center for a little while. Some of them, like Asia Wilson, I remember, you know, even going back to late August, the last time they played here, she was talking about, oh, how excited she was to go home and open Amazon packages and see her dogs. She reiterated that sentiment on Saturday as well, how she was just looking forward to see her dogs and go back home and hopefully they were going to do it with a championship. Now that hasn't happened yet, but you know, it's been two great environments, two great crowds, but neither team is really too fond of the opposing opponent's home court.
- [12:27]
Zena Kaeda
Yeah, I bet, especially when you have to travel across the country to be able to play against them. But that makes all the sense in the world. I Love how it extends to the city. Like no shade to Las Vegas, no shade to New York. You know, all of the things that already make you a bad city in the sense of whatever it is makes you even worse now that you're home to these opponent, opposing teams. I absolutely love that. But I, I personally love Las Vegas and New York. I wish I was there, but I was not. But you guys were. And you guys saw. Since the, I mean, from jump, from the jump ball, I felt like the New York Liberty had a pep in their step. They were like up, just up on defense, on offense. The aggression, everything about it was just like really, really passionate, I would say in comparison to what we've seen in Games 1 and Games 2, we also saw that the Aces on their side, they weren't the same Aces that we'd seen in games one and two. They had three uncharacteristic turnovers before the 7:30 mark in the first quarter. They looked rushed, I've said this before, they looked not in sync. And then I noticed that there was a new defensive assignments on Jackie and Chelsea. That, that was probably one of the biggest things that I noticed. Quiet assassin Jackie Young came into this game averaging 25 points, making 15 threes over the last two games. And then game three, 38 minutes, she had eight points, half of which came from free throws. No threes Chelsea Gray was also quieted. She, in her first two games had averaged a double double, 17 points, 10 assists, game three, 11 points and just two assists. Ben, talk to us a little bit about that Liberty defensive shift in general, but then particularly that Brondello savvy, I would say, defensive adjustment on those two Aces guards specifically.
- [14:21]
Ben Pickman
Yeah, you mapped it out. I mean, that really was the key change that stuck out right from tip off, right. Seeing Benijah Laney guard Jackie Young, seeing Brianna Stewart move to Chelsea Gray, and seeing Sabrina Ionescu move to Kia Stokes. And it's kind of funny to think, think about that change because at the beginning of the series, even before game one, it felt like it was set in stone from all parties that Banaj Elainey was going to guard Chelsea Gray and was going to do it 94ft. I mean, it was something that Becky Hammond really had as an expectation heading into the series. It was a look that New York had thrown at Las Vegas during the regular season and the Commissioners cup. And I think there was an expectation on both sides. And we then saw it in games one and two that Laney was just going to do that. So, you know, credit to New York for making that adjustment, that significant adjustment. It was interesting also to see Brianna Stewart kind of guarding a guard in Chelsea Gray, at least to open the game and for the majority of the game, because it was something that also took me back to a look that I saw in a practice, a recent practice during the postseason of Brianna Stewart at the top of a 3, 2 zone. Kind of New York was experimenting. We haven't really seen it in the playoffs, but experimenting with kind of a junk 3, 2 zone that breaks down into man. And in that zone, Stewie's at the top of it guarding, you know, the lead ball handler as they take it up the floor. So in my mind, it was pretty reminiscent of that. You know, the teams trust that Stewie can guard slower guard, guards rather faster players, players that are smaller than her, that she can contest and she can fight over screens. And I think we saw, as you mentioned, Xena, it was pretty effective at the start of Game 1. Las Vegas did very much. They were very much in the game after game one, after the first quarter of Game three, rather. But credit to New York for just throwing a little bit of a different look and just, I think messing up the timing of Las Vegas a pretty good amount, I would say, for sure.
- [16:04]
Zena Kaeda
And you know, you make a really great point about that three, the three, two, because that's actually quite common for longer, faster players to be at the top of that three, two, because they, they can make it difficult for that guard to get up the floor and then once they're up the floor, be able to see their, their, their outlet passes to get offenses started. So it is a big time disrupt. Who is more disruptive than a six, four. Briana Stewart in. In your face. And I think she, you know, very much did a great job of being able to guard the guards, you know, being in, in front of Chelsea Gray. And you see that in just in Chelsea gray only having two assists, Sabrina. The Aces shot above 50% in Games 1 and 2 and then just shot 33%. On Sunday. The Liberty were able to shave 30 points off their production. And they had them looking, as you mentioned in your recent piece regarding the game, mortal. They looked human. They looked like they were capable of mistakes. They had 13 turnovers total, which isn't a crazy high number at all. Like, it's not terrible. But what was so key about it was that they came at the most inopportune times. Right. It just seemed like when the Liberty were, or excuse me, the Aces were trying to make a run for it, a turnover would come. That kind of just made them kind of discombobulated and they had to go back down. And you could see almost they kept themselves composed, but you could see the frustration for sure on their faces. The Liberty, to me, just felt like they were everywhere in terms of activity, and they were incredibly physical. And they also had some disrespectful blocks. Cause that Stewie blocking Asia's legendary midi. Oh, have you guys seen. If you haven't seen the screen, like, the screen grab of that, it's crazy. Like, I didn't think anyone could ever get their hands up on that. Sabrina Unescu had two blocks of her own. Crazy. It definitely felt like, you know, reminiscent of the regular season matchups with these two for you, Sabrina. And looking at how the Aces, like, responded to this, what stood out to you most about the Liberty's defensive presence against the Aces?
- [18:13]
Sabrina Merchant
Well, I think it was interesting that they felt the need to make this change, because to me, it really comes down to Jackie Young. And Jackie was just obliterating the Liberty in those first two games. And that was against a combination of Sabrina Nescu and Courtney Vandersloot. Both of them are just not quite big enough, not quite strong enough to deal with Jackie Young. And you know, the way that she can get to the rim and then if you try to, you know, play her tight or, you know, play off of her, then she's hitting that pull up three. I think that for me, the defensive change was really motivated by the fact that they needed to get Benagio Laney on Jackie, and you can trust that somebody else can guard Chelsea. And the thing with Stewie guarding Chelsea is that it allows her to help off too, because they don't really fear Chelsea as a catch and shoot three point shooter. Like, Chelsea will pull up, like, if you kick it out to her, that's not really her rhythm three point shot. So I think they felt comfortable having Stewie play off of her and still get out to contest that, you know, just her release is not as quick as Jackie's is. So when you put Benijah on Jackie, then all of a sudden you have somebody who's physical enough to keep up with her to prevent her from getting to the rim, who can also stay with her on the perimeter. And I think that was what really changed things because everybody was getting off for the Aces, right? And, you know, if you can get at least one of them, you know, to stop, which just wasn't happening with Banaj on Chelsea. For whatever reason. Like, I don't think Banaj was doing a bad job by any means. It's just, I think her skill is more useful defending a player like Jackie Young. And then, I mean, we even. We haven't even talked about the other major defensive adjustment, which is if you move Stewie to Chelsea Gray, that means Jonquil Jones has to guard Asia Wilson. And I thought Jon Qual was just absolutely phenomenal. When you said disrespectful blocks, the first one I thought of was John Quell recovering to block Kelsey Plum and then doing the Dikembe Mutombo finger wag. And then she also came over and help when Stewie actually got switched onto Asia and Asia had a little step through to get past Dewey and Jonquill blocked her at the rim too. So, I mean, you know, we've talked about old defense voting, like old position voting all the time a lot here on this show. John Quill Jones obviously didn't make any of these all debut or all defense teams because she had such a slow start to the season. But I don't think anybody is playing better defense in this particular series, maybe even in the playoffs than Jonquil Jones.
- [20:18]
Zena Kaeda
Amen. I would agree with that. I think that was one of the things that as I was looking at the game yesterday, trying to figure out who. Who does Jonquil Jones remind me of? What kind of player have we seen in the past that Jonquil Jones kind of embodies? And I don't think we have. I literally tweeted this to Nikais Duncan. I was like, I was just talking to my sister as I was watching the game. I've never seen anyone be as physical inside, strong defensively and offensively and then also have a stroke like she does as a three point shooter. It's insane. He said the closest he could come to was Lauren Jackson. He was like. But even that isn't a one to one matchup. I'm curious, when you think about Jonquell defensively or offensively, are there players or a player that comes to mind of WNBA lore that she reminds you of?
- [21:13]
Sabrina Merchant
I can't really think of anyone that has her complete skill set offensively that also anchors the paint like she does defensively, like there are, there are players that have, you know, one or the other. But.
- [21:24]
Zena Kaeda
Right.
- [21:25]
Sabrina Merchant
I think she's kind of like the, the idealized version of like Jaren Jackson Jr. Or Evan Mobley. But they're. They're not there yet. Yeah. So I don't know.
- [21:34]
Zena Kaeda
It's impressive. What about you, Ben?
- [21:36]
Ben Pickman
Yeah, I mean, if we're going shades of. And, you know, I think Sabrina and I have joked about this. Maybe it's the number 35. If we're gonna go cross sport. It's. There's shades of Kevin Durant to her offensive game and the way she can just shoot, pull, like, pull up, turnaround, jumpers over people with ease. Like, you know, JJ's like, 18 foot baseline pull up. Or her three has a little shades of Durant to it that because of her size and because of her length, she's just able to get it off. And I don't really know if we've seen, like, a W player. Yeah. Do it in the same way, but again, like, defensively, she's very different than Kevin Durant and very different than a lot of the other players. Like, she is a true defensive anchor, which makes her game so unique.
- [22:24]
Sabrina Merchant
Yeah. I think the way the W is evolving, like, we just haven't had bigs like this who have stretched their game out. And, I mean, I'm sure we'll get to, you know, the Liberty's offense in a bit, but just, like, the biggest change to me was that JJ just hadn't been shooting, you know, threes. Like, she'd been doing a lot of work in the paint. Really good in the paint. You know, her on the offensive glass was obviously a huge, you know, reason why the Liberty were even in either of those first two games. But her being able to space out, like, it's just. It's so different than WNBA centers that we've seen in the past. And it's. It's just a fun evolution.
- [22:55]
Zena Kaeda
Evolution of the game. You talk about game changers. I mean, that's a big WNBA word, right? I would definitely say John Cole Jones is a game changer from being a bruiser in the paint, but not also just being a bruiser, but she's also so savvy with how she helps and how she, you know, covers as a defensive anchor and then goes outside and just does whatever she wants, really. It feels like. But let's talk a little bit about the Aces in this game, because before we get into the Liberty, because even with the Liberty doing everything they were doing on defense and doing a really good job and their energy was up, I mean, everyone, whether you were in the building or watching it from home, you could feel that they had. The stakes were high and that they were playing aggressively. They were bumping, checking people as they were coming through the lane. They were frustrating the Aces by far. In comparison to game one, Game two, this was by Far the best that they'd showed up. And yet the Aces were still in this game in the fourth quarter. They were down only 6, 5, 33 in the fourth quarter. 67, 61, even with everything that the Liberty were throwing at them. Sabrina, for you, what contributed to the Aces being able to stay in this game despite the Liberty's best efforts?
- [24:18]
Sabrina Merchant
I thought they were just really good defensively. You know, I don't think that that took any drop off from their games in Las Vegas To New York coaches, I always like to say, right, that defense travels. Like, we don't know about the shooting, but defense is supposed to travel especially for great defensive teams, and that's what the Aces are. They were the number one defensive team in the regular season. And apologies to Asia Wilson when I said Jonquil Jones is playing better defense than anyone. Like, I don't mean that as a slight to Asia. I just think Jonkwell is affecting the game in so many different ways. But yeah, I thought that the Aces still had had their principles intact, you know, in terms of what they wanted to do to contain the Liberty. Like Brianna Stewart's shooting, it got a little bit better, you know, in game three, but still, like, you know, eight of 16 from the field, like, you can, you can deal with that. Like, it's not like she was absolutely going off. They did make more of their threes. I think that was the real difference. They just didn't seem to account for JJ shooting threes. And like, that obviously put them in some rotations they were unfamiliar with or uncomfortable with. But like, I just think that they were really solid on that end of the floor. Like, you know, Asia was solid in paint, their guards got over screens. They, you know, the Liberty hit more threes. That's going to happen. But I don't think that they were of the wide open variety that the Aces are uncomfortable giving up, other than the ones that obviously JJ was getting. So I think, you know, it's just they took care of business on one end of the floor and that gave him an opportunity to stay in the game late for sure.
- [25:40]
Ben Pickman
Well, and the other thing was the rebounding margins, right? If you look at the first half, New York just had one offensive rebound in that first half, which they only converted for just two points. Las Vegas, meanwhile, had three offensive rebounds that they had for seven second chance points. And I think that was really telling, right, if. If New York, and I don't think New York shot it particularly well in the first quarter, but the fact that Las Vegas was able to Get a couple points just on second chance opportunities that helped them overcome some of those shooting struggles. You look at the box score and you can see a little bit of a discrepancy between Las Vegas and New York. But because of how the Aces were able to keep specifically JJ off the offensive glass in that first half, they were able to stay in it. And I think about Kelsey Plum, I think had a three pointer just as the time was running out in that first half. It would have tied the game. And, you know, I don't know if you feel that much better if you're the Aces, if she makes it or if she misses, but either way, like, I think Las Vegas had to be pretty happy with how they played, and I think their body language was indicative of that. During huddles, to be only down three, to have New York have thrown out this big adjustment defensively and to still just be trailing by one possession. You know, I think the Aces came away from the first half feeling pretty content or satisfied or fully aware that they had a chance to still win this game despite New York making a big change and despite, as we mentioned, the atmosphere being what it was.
- [27:01]
Zena Kaeda
You mentioned that Kelsey Plum 3, and, you know, we'd be remiss not to shout out her performance and keeping the Aces within this game. 29 points, two assists, two rebounds, two steals. Those 29 points were incredibly important, and those points came at key moments of keeping them in this game. But I also think that she was doing a lot to generate offense because there were turnovers or there was just kind of bobbling of balls and things of that sort. I felt like Kelsey Plumb was a poised point guard in the moments that Chelsea Gray wasn't quite hitting it. I feel like she was penetrating the paint. She was being able to, you know, penetrate, kick, get some movement on the in the half court, and again, being able to take it to the basket and making some really great plays for them. Let's talk a little bit about Liberty, because the Liberty starters finally showed up. And I think that that was a big thing that everyone had a lot of criticism about in games one and games two were about not only them showing up offensively, but just playing with heart, playing with effort. And we got to give credit where it's due. They look like they cared and they very much showed up on game three. We've talked about their defensive rise, but also let's talk about the offense. I want to call out the Liberty assist total because they had 28 to the Aces 13. And that definitely gives you an idea of just how much the ball movement was happening for them. And I think that that's a, there's a huge story to tell there about how differently those teams were sinking on the offensive end. Ben, I'll start with you. 28 assists to 13. What can you attribute to that? What did you see out there for them that was working and being able to get the ball to their teammates hands?
- [28:47]
Ben Pickman
I mean you call it out, the 28 assists by New York I think is one of the most telling numbers of the entire game. But I'm going to throw it to a different comparison and that's New York's 33 made field goals. Because New York all year has kind of talked about how they want to move the ball and how much they pride themselves on assisting baskets. In the regular season, New York averaged a WNBA record 75.0 assist percentage. Right. Three quarters of their baskets were all assisted. And I think if you look, you know, at some of the stats from earlier in the series, they were slightly below that number, that 75% number in game two. And they were just 17 assists on 32 made field goals in game one. And that really tells the story, right, of how in game three they prided themselves on moving the ball, moving the ball, moving the ball and finding the open player for an open 3 in open mid range jumper or a cut to the basket. In game one we saw a lot of isolation, a lot of stagnation. We saw their offense slow down. It's why, you know, New York, despite trailing by just a couple points at the, at the half in game one, we're not really satisfied with their offense because you know, some of that was just isolation and Marine being Marine and that's great and that's something they'll take, but it's not how they necessarily want to play. So I think it certainly was a good sign that New York for New York rather that they were able to assist on such a high percentage of baskets. The Aces number, to me, I don't know if Sabrina disagrees. It's not as worrisome because this is the team that prides itself on just playing one on one consistently. And the strength of that team really is being able to break people down. I think Becky Hammond likes to say that like our best offense is no offense. It's just like read and react and play and attack and when we're not calling plays like that's the best play I can call. So to me this was much more about how New York regained the rhythm than the Aces kind of being out of touch with how they want to play.
- [30:37]
Zena Kaeda
What about you, Sabrina?
- [30:39]
Sabrina Merchant
Yeah, I think that's a good point about the New York assist percentage, because even though their point total was, you know, not all too different from game one, let's say the way they looked on offense was definitely more the way the Liberty want to play. And I think that's why Becky Hammond was just saying that, you know, they messed up all their defensive coverages when it didn't really feel that way. Like, you know, they only had, like you said, 67 points that they'd given up with five and a half remaining in the game. It's. It's just the. The flow that the Liberty were able to achieve on offense is definitely closer to what they wanted to get. Whereas you look at the Aces and, like, so much of their offense gets created from drive and kick, and yet they're just not making any threes, right? If Kelsey Plum is the one driving, she hit five of their eight threes in the game, or five of their. Was it eight or seven? It was seven threes. So, yeah, nobody else is really, you know, the recipient of those kickouts and kind of disrupts their flow, which is why you saw, like, the Liberty just sending a bunch of people to try to stop her directly at the ring when she stopped passing the ball out in the third quarter. Yeah, the Liberty, I think, you know, even though I wouldn't say that the Aces need to worry about anything defensively necessarily, because I still think that they're, you know, they. They were able to relatively keep, you know, their pain points in check. Like, I don't think, you know, they. You're gonna. You're gonna concede some three Super Nausea Lane in the corner, right? Like, you're obviously going to step up to Sabrina Nescu, but to me, it was more just the Liberty made shots, right? Like Sandy Brandello said, they just need to start making shots to relieve some of the pressure in the paint. And maybe it's a Barclays center thing. You know, it's harder to make shots on the road at Michelobalta Arena. I do think it's interesting that the aces have lost three games at Barclays center this year in three tries. They played 27 games combined, you know, regular season, postseason, Commissioners cup at Michelob Ultra, and they lost twice. So they've already lost more in Brooklyn than they have at home all year, which is just wild considering, you know, the volume of games you played in each location. You know, sometimes it just comes down to that, right? Like, is Jackie Young making threes? Is Alicia Clark making threes? Like, is Kayla Thornton making threes? And when the answer to those questions shift, then the offenses look dramatically different.
- [32:39]
Zena Kaeda
Yeah, well, thinking about the Liberty rather than just the Aces, the Liberty starters did do their thing. I just mentioned, you know, obviously we talked about Jonquil Jones being, I mean, a beast. Complete beast. Stat line, 27 points, 4 of 7 from 3, 8 rebounds, 3 assists, 3 huge blocks, 2 of which you've already mentioned. Sabrina, 2 steals and managed to be physical throughout the entire game while charting only two fouls. I thought that was really, really impressive just for her ability to be that physical and the team to just be that physical and her only, you know, racking up two fouls. And then there was also. It wasn't just her, though. When you think about the entire team, there were other really great performances around her. You think about Benjulaney being able to keep Jackie Young to just eight points. I think there's obviously, you know, there's shots that Jackie Young had to make, but Benili did her thing on that. On. On Jackie Stewart had a 20 and 12 double double, not to mention two major blocks. Sabrina had nine points, but 11 assists. Huge. And then sloot really strong stats. Stat line, 12.7 board, 6 assists. Outside of Jonquill, who we've already kind of, you know, given that acclaim to, for both of you, which performance were you most impressed by and you were most looking forward to to be able to see the Liberty make a. Make a change in this game?
- [34:08]
Sabrina Merchant
I think Sabrina's stat line really speaks to the Liberty playing the way that they wanted it to because of those 11 assists. Like the Aces have been sending two to the ball on Sabrina, you know, to try to keep her from shooting off of those screens. But New York's movement hasn't been good enough, you know, on the second side to really make them pay for that coverage. And I think it was like Sabrina getting the 11 assists isn't so much her. It's also everybody else doing what they needed to do off of those traps. So I think her performance, to me is most indicative of the Liberty getting back into the type of flow that they wanted to play with.
- [34:37]
Ben Pickman
I mean, it's funny that you say that, and we don't rehearse any of these things because I was going to say Courtney Vandersloot. I thought, you know, it was a comment we made to each other. Sabrina, during, I think the first half of game three was just that she looked so much more aggressive than she had been in the first two games, and I don't necessarily think she played, like, her best game of the playoffs by any means. I think you mentioned some of her numbers. I think her numbers were solid, but they were not spectacular by any means. But I think you saw just an aggressiveness, and it was something she talked about in the lead up to game three that she recognized she needed to be more aggressive and just make quicker decisions depending on how Las Vegas was playing her. You saw it early, right? She had three field goal attempts in the first quarter. She had three rebounds in the first quarter that she then started to push the brake on. I think you saw it early in the second quarter. There was one play where she. I mean, the easiest way to describe it, it's just a Steve Nash dribble, a Nash dribble where she circled under the basket and then found Benija Laney for an open 3. It stretched New York's lead to 7. Becky Hammond calls timeout. And, you know, Sloot afterwards, just kind of let out a big flex to the crowd, like she was feeling herself. She was feeling it. She was engaged with the home crowd in that moment. You know, they've picked on her defensively. And look, Kelsey Plum, as you mentioned, she still had a day. She had 29 points. She was, you know, they're the most consistent threat for the Las Vegas Aces. On the offensive end, Courtney Vander Sloot is guarding Chelsea Plum a lot. But even then, I thought, you know, Sloot did a better job of sticking with Plum. She was more physical. You know, Sloot picked up two early fouls. Sandy, you kept her in the game, trusting the veteran for a while, and I thought that was still an okay sign of, like, that's Courtney Vanders being aggressive. Better. She picks up some fouls because she's playing tighter defense. Then, you know, let's Plum just drive her entirely. So, you know, I thought it was definitely a strong effort from Courtney Vandersloot and something that they're going to need again in game four if New York hopes to push this to a fifth game.
- [36:33]
Sabrina Merchant
Ben mentioned that we were talking about salute at the start of the game. If you want to know the thing that Ben and I talked about the most during that game, it was just every two minutes, one of us would look over at each other and be like, plum is a fricking killer.
- [36:43]
Zena Kaeda
Yes.
- [36:44]
Sabrina Merchant
Literally, Kelsey Plum over and over again. What would the scheme have looked like without her?
- [36:48]
Zena Kaeda
That's. That's what I thought. For me, I mean, on the Aces side, And we're talking about the Liberty. But on the Aces side, it was unreal to just see Kelsey Plumb be like, all right, let me put the team on my back today. And I think that that's what's so special when you look at both of these teams. But really, when you look at the Aces and you see their lack of depth on the, on the bench, like as you look at the starting five outside of Kia Stokes. We love you, Kia Stokes, but, you know, just thinking offense, but you look at those starting, that core four on any given day, one of those four can say, let me like a backpack. Let me just put this team on my back real quick. Because it is. It was unreal seeing Kelsey Plumb, who hasn't played terribly this, you know, this series, not, you know, but she's also not been the person every single game. She was the person. I don't know that they would have been in this game that close. Three points difference at the half or even within that six point margin in the fourth had it not been for Kelsey Plum hitting her shots. And you, you mentioned the Steve Nash dribble. I actually wrote that in my notes when I was talking. I thought that Kelsey Plum was doing a little bit of Steve Nash dribbling, trying to kind of fish dribble, see what she can find, and then exploding to the basket. It was really, really impressive to see. Well, before we close out game three, we look ahead to game four. 4. There is obviously a lot up in the air when it comes to Chelsea's injury. And knowing that we don't know anything about, you know, what her prognosis is, what's going on, assuming that she can play or. Excuse me, excuse me, Assuming that she is not going to be able to play. What are you guys predicting in terms of game four in terms of adjustments for either team? And if you're so bold, what is a potential outcome for game four? Sabrina, I'll start with you.
- [38:39]
Sabrina Merchant
Well, I think it's pretty clear what would happen in the starting lineup if Chelsea's unable to go. They would just put Alicia Clark in her place and play a little bit bigger. And then you have Jackie Young and Kelsey Plum handle more of the point guard duties. I don't really think you really need to change the defensive matchups all that much because Chelsea was guarding Banaja and you can pretty seamlessly put Alicia Clark into that. I think the real issue is that now you have, like, two places that the Liberty feel very comfortable helping off of. Like they're going to help off of Alicia Clark. They're going to help off Kia Stokes. And how do you make them pay for that? Like, Alicia's going to shoot KIA outside of that three point explosion in game two in the first quarter doesn't seem all that comfortable doing that. So it's really just a series of handoffs and screens, you know, at the three point line. And like that really relies on Plum and Young being super quick coming off of those hand ups, you know, getting into the action right away so that their defender is caught behind Kia. And that's as much of a responsibility for Kia as it is for the guards. But the guards are just going to have so very much to do if Chelsea is unavailable to play. So I don't love thinking about this hypothetical because I would much rather it didn't happen. I honestly think that the Aces should make a starting lineup adjustment. Even if Chelsea is able to play, I think they should put Alicia Clark in the starting lineup because then John Cole Jones can't go off the way that she did. But if they, you know, if they do end up doing that, then like, let's. We're gonna need some good minutes from Kirsten Bell and Kayla George if Chelsea's unable to go because you need more than five players in a rotation.
- [40:07]
Zena Kaeda
Right, right. What about you, Ben?
- [40:11]
Ben Pickman
Yeah, I mean, I think Sabrina mapped out the key, the key pivot point in game four pretty nicely and to the bench point. Like how Becky Hammond ends up stopping if Chelsea Gray is unable to play, I think is, you know, it's going to be the most interesting thing to watch how she chooses to spell Jackie Young and Asia Wilson and Kelsey Plum, because, you know, Kirsten Bell, she played three minutes and I wouldn't say, you know, wasn't the best three minutes that, that someone has seen in game. At the end of game three, obviously a really tough position to just get thrown in a really close game. So we'll see. I mean, it's a pretty inexperienced bench, all things considered. In the wnba, in the WNBA Finals and with this Aces team, I think Becky's just going to try and find three minutes here and there to pull one off the floor and swap the other end. Just kind of like a puzzle piece. But that's kind of how she subs with Alicia Clark. And it's just really nice that Alicia Clark can kind of eat up those minutes. And I'm not really sure who else is gonna, you know, play those minutes for the Las Vegas otherwise. The thing I'm interested in from the Liberty perspective, again, it's how, again, Brianna Stewart. I think they're still trying to get her involved in finding ways that she is comfortable on the offensive side of the floor. I mean, it wasn't. It was something that they talked about heading into Game three about wanting to make sure she is more aggressive and she's being more aggressive. She took the most field goal attempts of any New York player. We saw her take four free throw attempts. But I still think there is another layer, another level she can go in terms of aggressiveness and finding her spots on the offensive end of the floor where she can succeed. Because we've seen a lot of Jonquil Jones in this series, and she has played tremendous. You know, in my story on the Athletic, I talked to Coach yo, you know, the Ole Miss women's basketball coach who, like, JJ is from the Bahamas, and yo said that, you know, this was the most aggressive game she's seen JJ play. JJ thought it was maybe one of the best games she's ever played. JJ has been so consistent. But I still think there is a little bit of a question of who else from New York is going to kind of rally behind her. I still think there's more room for Stewie to grow, especially if the Aces are going to play a little bit bigger in Game four if Chelsea Gray is not out with Kia Stokes. With Asia Wilson and Alicia Clark on the floor more, I'm interested to see how they find spots for Stewie to attack. They're going to need her to thrive in Game four if they want to advance again.
- [42:33]
Zena Kaeda
I'm. I agree with you. I think that there's a level, another level to unlock in not only Brianna Stewart, but also Sabrina Ionescu. I feel like the two of them have been quieter than you would anticipate them, especially when you're looking at the previous matchups against them. And for those of you that, you know, watched John Paul Jones yesterday and forgot that, oh, this is a WNBA MVP, right? Like, this is 2021's MVP. This is the Commissioner cup this year. MVP. She definitely, like, pulled a Beyonce and was like, this, a reminder. Like, this is literally, this is what we do. This is how I play. This is what I come. I come to do this. So shout out to them. I. I mean, I agree with you all the adjustments. Again, I'm the same way. I don't want to think about this adjustment in terms of Chelsea Gray not playing, but now that this is a factor to consider, I was confident that the series is going to go to five after the first two games. I was like, might not need five. But I do think now I'm going back to my original. And I still think it's going to be in five. And the Aces. The Aces will bring it back to Vegas. That's my prediction. We'll see. We'll see what happens. But anyways, as always, Ben, Sabrina, thank you so much for this breakdown. Appreciate you guys walking us through, giving us the insight, telling us what to look for. Friends, make sure to check out our site for our team's continued coverage. Ben and Sabrina are just churning out the articles. Okay. They're writing them left and right as well as other people on our desk. There's tons of great WNBA coverage. Definitely make sure to go read some of that and then also make sure to tune in. Wednesday, October 18, 5pm Pacific, 8pm Eastern. Game four in Barclays. That's in Brooklyn. All righty. Now it's time for me to go off the script. All right. Joining me for today's off the script is Scott Doctorman, who covers Iowa football for the Athletic. But he covers way more than just Iowa football because there is another Iowa team that's been taken up the spotlight in the Midwest, and that is Iowa Hawkeyes women's basketball. They had a massive game yesterday, Broke some records, made some history. Scott, you were there. You were actually at this game in Kinnick Stadium, where the Iowa Hawkeyes football team usually takes the stage, but instead, there was a little bit of a smaller stage, the women's basketball court in the middle of Kinnick Stadium. What did you see when you were out there?
- [45:19]
Scott Doctorman
It was remarkable. Zena. I mean, when you look at the stadium, which has held, you know, Big Ten football since 1929, to go out there and to see almost the entire stadium full of people. And as loud as it was, I have a decibel reading that I use during a lot of events, and I had it out and during introductions for both Lisa Bluder and Caitlin Clark hit 105 decibels. So it was so loud you couldn't quite hear at that point. And to see the cheering, to see the, you know, Caitlin Clark is the most transcendent player I've ever covered. I've been in this business for 30 years. And the way that fans react to her young, old boy girl, it doesn't matter. You see as many boys with 22 shirts as you do girls, and they were just all over the place. And it was a chilly day. I mean, it was around 50 degrees. The wind was blowing. So a lot of the free throws weren't going in the way you thought they would. But overall, it was the most incredible scene I've probably seen for women's basketball. Just because this wasn't just a, hey, let's sell this out and you know, go, team, go. I mean, there was a. It was a passionate crowd and they were very much into this game.
- [46:33]
Zena Kaeda
I love that you said that about Caitlin Clark being a transcendent player, because I really think that that's what this generation of women's basketball is starting to see is just this generation of transcendent players. Maybe it's the advent of social media. You get access to them, you get to see what they're doing in the off season, you get to see who they are as players, but also people. But it's true, you do connect with these players way more than I think than you could have in the past. And I just absolutely love. Iowa has that really cool tradition of waving to the children's hospital. Tell us a little bit about that wave and what that was like for the women's basketball team.
- [47:09]
Scott Doctorman
It was tremendous because the football team does that at the end of every first quarter. And so this time they did it at the end of the first quarter of the women's game. And this was something that's always special when you're there. It's emotional when you're there. But for the women's basketball team, who've done it from the stands all their years as football spectators, now to do it as participants, it really made it emotional for them. And the other really fascinating or interesting thing they do is they have a kid captain and that's somebody who's been in the children's hospital. And then they accompany them, you know, during football games, to midfield, during before kickoffs. And then also, you know, they had that during basketball. And it was a 12 year old girl who has bone cancer whose story really resonated with it. And, and I think with Caitlin Clark after the fact, she said, look, I can score all these points, I could win all these games, but it doesn't matter compared to this little girl having this card, you know, and said that says on the card, Caitlin Clark is my favorite player. And she says that's something that she'll keep forever. And so the relationships that they've built over time. But yeah, waving the wave is always, again, an emotional event. And it was really neat to see it, especially for me, being on courtside rather than in the press box.
- [48:26]
Zena Kaeda
Sure, sure. And like you said, this was a game where Caitlin Clark, regardless of the point she makes, you know, people still connect to her, still are impressed with her. But yeah, last this game, she definitely showed what she's capable of. Scoring a lot of points and doing a lot of assists and rebounds and all the above. 34 points, 11 rebounds, 10 assists. Definitely doing her Caitlin Clark thing. They ended up playing, and I didn't even give you the context, guys. The Iowa Hawkeyes played in an exhibition game against DePaul. Ended up beating them 94, 72. Lots of points. I don't know if Iowa football has ever put up 94 points in that arena, but definitely made their mark while they were there. But triple double for Caitlin Clark. What was the. The actual game? Like you said, it was chilly outside, there's wind blowing. I know when football players are in the midst of those bowls, it's. It's hard to stay warm and. And you know, they usually have gloves on and all these, like, these are women's basketball players and shorts and maybe some long sleeve tees. But how was the actual game?
- [49:30]
Scott Doctorman
You know, overall, it was well played, all things considered. Even this time of year, it takes a while for any basketball player to get in his sink. Just, you know, it could be indoors in a warm arena, and it's fine. It's the same way. But in this case, you know, the things I noticed where the weather maybe affected them was probably their hands, because when they were running and then they were in sets and they were moving, you know, they had clenched fists trying to keep their hands warm. There were several who had long sleeves, you know, that were running, and then there were others who didn't. And there were even a few that. Some had T shirts underneath their jerseys, some didn't have anything. And, you know, so I guess it was to each his own or to each her own. But I think in this case, what was interesting was you saw a lot of Iowa would go on a run, and they were up like 26 early in the fourth quarter. But then this is unique because there's an Iowa chant that always happens at Kinnick Stadium, where different sections, but it was so loud and it was. It registered over 100 decibels that they could not hear or concentrate. And then DePaul went on like a 15, 0 run, you know, and made it actually pretty competitive.
- [50:41]
Zena Kaeda
But they were the sixth man on the opposite side.
- [50:45]
Scott Doctorman
Yeah, exactly. But, you know, DePaul is also a really good story in this because Doug Bruno, the head coach, when we asked Lisa Bluder after the fact, why DePaul? Because you brought that up, you know, why not a Division 3 school just to work on some things? Well, she. She admires Doug because of his willingness to really help women's sports grow and his diligence in that regard. And she also knew that when I called him, he's going to say yes, and he did. And I think one of the interesting things was they, you know, this doesn't happen in any arena. They allowed Duke to play its height video when they took the court, along with Iowa, after the fact. So I. I think there was a. And there were. There were no boos or anything like that. That happens from time to time. But I think in this case, everybody appreciated it. You saw, the DePaul players were just as taken by the environment. They were part of it, too. They did the wave. They were with the kid captain. So I think that togetherness, you know, and it was an exhibition. Of course, it doesn't go down in the record book, but the memories that they'll have from this game and being part of that, both teams, I think it's something that they'll take and cherish forever.
- [51:54]
Zena Kaeda
You did mention that they got to play their hype video in the article you put about this story. Definitely check it out if you haven't read it. What I'm curious about is when you see the pictures that you actually have embedded within the article from your Twitter account, you're seeing how small the court is in comparison to the actual bowl. And this isn't the first time that this sort of environment has been created to, you know, really accentuate the basketball game. We've seen basketball games happen on Navy ships, right? We've seen the Nebraska volleyball game that just happened in their arena. I don't know what the actual experience is of being able to be like, that person at the very back row in these arenas, but they're filling these places up. And I'm just curious, you know, what do you think the reason why they wanted to play in Kinnick Stadium? What experience is that for the fan? Like, what's the real purpose of being able to have these major settings for these basketball games?
- [52:58]
Scott Doctorman
If really for this case, for the women's basketball team, it started back when they went to the Final Four and played for the national championship. They had been selling out several games. They are completely sold out this season, which has never happened before in Big Ten history, let alone Iowa. And so Lisa Bluder, who's now going into year 39, she started coaching when she was 23 as a head coach, and now here she is. She's like what can we do? What can we take the next step? Because they had a welcome home celebration about 10 days after the final four, and there were still almost 10,000 people that showed up. And she wanted to know, what's the next step? Well, Kinnick is the next step. It's beyond Carver, Hawkeye Arena. So she asked about it, and Beth Goetz, who's the interim AD at Iowa, was all for it. They started working through it, and they figured, let's. You know, initially she was like, well, let's get. See if we can get, like, 25,000 people there. And so when this all started happening, I mean, boom, they were at 35,000. And then they started taking out sections, going deeper and deeper because the court was in the north end zone. And, like, the season ticket holders were the first to actually to have bids on tickets and everything. So they were trying to make it a close experience for them. And then, you know, the tickets got cheaper the farther you got out. But there were some people clearing the south end zone that bought tickets that were there for the experience. There's just no way they could have been seeing the court except on the Jumbotron. And then late in the game, after the game was over, and Caitlin Clark and Lisa Bluder and the players were kind of walking towards the locker room, and they would stop. And I mean, it's quite the scene when Caitlin Clark walks by anybody, but particularly young girls, I mean, they walk to her, and she recognizes the importance of her job. She accepts being a role model. She loves it because she thinks of herself as being that little girl. And she talked about it in Big Ten media days, where one time, I think she gave Maya Moore a hug when she was younger, and it just stuck with her forever. And she wants to be that person. And when you see it, you know, even in the Big Ten last year, the average attendance for each arena that she went to jumped 3,500 fans. For an Iowa women's team coming there because of her. So it was quite the experience, even for those who couldn't watch the game. But to be there and then to just, you know, for some of them just to shake her hand or whatever after the game was really a transformative event.
- [55:35]
Zena Kaeda
That's unreal. I'm betting that some of that Maya Moore greatness just rubbed off in that hug. That is so beautiful to hear and to see as well. Just all the support. And when, you know, we obviously started talking this game about Game three, and when you think about attendance records being broken for the Liberty as well, right. They had, they had to take the drapes off the top, the top level of Barclays arena. Like this was. This is the, the trajectory. This is where women's sports is going, where people just want to be a part of the experience. People want to be in the mix of this growth and this, this excitement. And so shout out to Iowa, shout out to DePaul, shout out to Caitlin Clark for making it a game and making sure that people got what they wanted when they got to see her greatness. But super exciting stuff. Thank you so much, Scott, for just breaking that down, making us, you know, giving us a feel of what it was like to be in the arena. And hopefully this season, I mean, you're going to have your docket full of similar games like this, I'm sure. But thank you all for listening. Thank you all for joining again. Game four is going to be on Wednesday, 5pm Pacific, 8pm Eastern. Make sure to tune in. But until next time, I'm Zena Keda for the Athletic, encouraging you to keep listening, keep learning, and keep loving the game until next time.
- [57:12]
Discover Host
As we head into the playoffs, it's safe to assume there will be a few calls made by the refs that will be hard to accept. But you know what isn't hard to accept? Discover. Believe it or not, Discover is accepted at 99% of places that take credit cards nationwide. You heard that right, 99%. So make a good call for your wallet and get Discover. Based on the February 2024 Nielsen report. Learn more at discover.com credit card this.
- [57:37]
Aura Host
Podcast is brought to you by Aura. By the time you hear about a data breach, your information has already been exposed for months. On average, companies take 277 days to report a breach. That's nine months where hackers have access to your personal data. That's why we're thrilled to partner with Aura. Aura is an all in one digital safety solution that monitors the dark web for your phone number, email and Social Security number, sending real time alerts if your info is found. It also includes a vpn, password manager and data broker removal. To help keep you safe for a limited time, Aura is offering a 14 day free trial plus a dark web scan to check if your personal information has been leaked. All for free@aura.com safety. That's Aura.com safety to sign up and protect your loved ones. That's a u r a.com terms apply. Check the site for details.
- [58:31]
Zena Kaeda
Acast Powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend.
- [58:39]
Marc Maron
Hey folks, It's Marc Maron from WTF. It's been more than 15 years now, and I'm still talking to all kinds of people in my garage every week. Sometimes it's Bill Burr, sometimes it's Ariana Grande. She just looks at me because she's always going like, dad, it's not that big a deal. Yeah. I go, sorry, I lost my temper. I go, I still love you. You know, Daddy has issues.
- [59:01]
Aura Host
Are you afraid of it?
- [59:02]
Marc Maron
Of death?
- [59:03]
Scott Doctorman
Well, I don't.
- [59:04]
Marc Maron
I think about it all the time.
- [59:05]
Zena Kaeda
How are we here already?
- [59:06]
Marc Maron
Listen to WTF with Marc Maron twice a week on your favorite podcast app. Or get more WTF with a WTF plus subscription. Just go to wtfpod.com and click on WTF Plus.
- [59:21]
Sabrina Merchant
Acast helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com.