← No Offseason: The Athletic Women's Basketball Show
No Offseason: The Athletic Women's Basketball Show
The Press Defense Teams Want To Avoid in March Madness
00:59:58
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- [00:00]
Zena Kada
Thy ticket, lady Jennifer of Coolidge.
- [00:03]
Jennifer
Well, many thanks, good sir. Here is my Discover card.
- [00:09]
Zena Kada
They accept Discover at Renaissance fairs?
- [00:11]
Jennifer
Yeah, they do here. Discover is accepted at the places I love to shop. Get it with the times.
- [00:17]
Zena Kada
With the times. You're playing the lute. Yeah.
- [00:22]
Jennifer
And it sounds pretty good, right?
- [00:23]
Discover Card Announcer
Discover is accepted at 99% of places that take credit cards nationwide, based on the February 2025 Nielsen report.
- [00:30]
Sleep Number Announcer
Why choose a sleep number smart be.
- [00:32]
Paige DeSorbo
Can I make my site softer?
- [00:34]
Sabrina Merchant
Can I make my site firmer?
- [00:36]
Discover Card Announcer
Can we sleep cooler?
- [00:38]
Sleep Number Announcer
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- [01:01]
Pura Announcer
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- [01:45]
Zena Kada
Hello everyone and welcome to no off season. I'm Zena Kada.
- [01:49]
Chantelle Jennings
I'm Shantelle Jennings.
- [01:51]
Sabrina Merchant
And I'm Sabrina Merchant.
- [01:53]
Zena Kada
And today on the show, we're diving into some would you rather moments in women's college basketball. I'm encouraging you all to play along with us, okay? We're talking about the perfect combo on the floor to which pressure defense you trust in crunch time and even those all important seating choices during a timeout. Don't worry, you'll understand what I'm talking about just a little bit. But first we've got to get into the Sabrina scale. It's back, guys. Another great weekend of women's college hoops. Another packed Sunday. My God. Like whoever the basketball gods be at the ncaa, give us a breath. Just give us a moment. But we got to jump into some of these matchups from last week. Sabrina, let's start with the game that you were at Iowa and ucla. This, I said this game was going to be the factor of like we're going to really put to the test. One, is Iowa as good as we think they are? And two, is UCLA as dominant as we believe them to be? And the Bruins definitely let us know they dominate. Okay? They beat the Hawkeyes 88, 65. And that score is reflective of what the entire game was. This wasn't like a last second blowout in the fourth quarter, like. No, it was domination all the way through. They have won their 15th straight game and they say perfect 11. And oh, in the Big Ten. So UCLA, they climbed one spot in your ranking this week from number three to number two. What were your thoughts on UCLA just leading the way in the Big Ten right now?
- [03:19]
Sabrina Merchant
Well, they are also perfect at home, for what it's worth. I know that's not the stat you were bringing up, but they are 100 at home. Increasingly tough place to play, I would say. You know, Jan Jensen caught a little flack on the Internet for saying that her Iowa team matched the energy of the USC crowd on Thursday. As in to say that there was not a lot of energy for her team and she had no such comments about the UCLA crowd on Sunday for whatever reason, you know. But yeah, I think, you know, we had some doubts about UCLA out of that Texas loss earlier in the season. They just look so overmatched, so undisciplined. Just lack of composure. Which is a weird thing to say about a team that starts five seniors and has two veteran point guards and has all of this tournament and postseason experience. And I think it was kind of the kick in the pants they really needed because they've won one game by single digits in the entire Big Ten. You know, that was against Ohio State where the Buckeyes sort of came in a little later. And like you said, I think this score against Iowa was really indicative of how the whole game went. Like it's 23 point win because they basically just won every quarter by six points. Right? Just like little dominance, you know, every minute you just win and then it just blows up into a bigger number by the end of the game. And I think that's just what you're seeing with UCLA is the margins are always working in their favor, right? Like, they're an excellent rebounding team, they're an excellent shooting team. They haven't been turning the ball over as much recently. You know, they just don't make a ton of mistakes. And when they do, they're just so prepared to respond. Right. Like if Gabriela Hawkes is having a down night, okay, well, that just means you feed more of the ball to Gianna Napkins or Angela Dugalic or, you know, Charlie Sledger Walker. Right. Like they have so many options who just know exactly what to do in any given situation. And I thought, you know, I wrote about this on a headline that went on the site yesterday or on Sunday. But even when Iowa just sort of clawed back in in the fourth quarter, it was like, okay, well, out of bounds, play for Kiki Rice. Gabriela Hawkes forces a turnover. Gianna Eepkins, baseline, out of bounds three. And it's just 1, 1, 1. And they're all seniors and they're all experienced. They all know exactly how to perform in these situations. And I think that's just the big difference you see between them and a team like Iowa, which all of the best players are sophomores. And maybe we're in an era of college basketball where sophomores can still grow into better classes, you know, as they grow in their college careers and they don't all transfer, I think has a better chance than most schools of keeping their talent. But, yeah, UCLA is just proof that, like, when you have players who have been a part of college basketball for so long, and I emphasize so long because they're not just seniors, you've got, like, players like Douglas and Neepkins and Charlie Sutter Walker, who are all wearing the Big Ten graduate pin, you know, on their jerseys because they are all college graduates already, but still in college basketball. And, yeah, I think you're just seeing that experience bear out on the court. And it's why I think they're clearly the class of the Big Ten. And anything short of a final Four, even though they won't say it out loud, would be massive disappointment for this particular UCLA team.
- [06:04]
Zena Kada
I feel like that is actually a perfect transition to our next game that we're talking about is the UConn Tennessee game, particularly because you're also seeing not necessarily college graduates, but just experience together in this UConn team, especially even in a game where they were challenged for the first time. UConn goes into halftime 42. 42, tied up with Tennessee, and you're for the first time thinking, oh, a challenge. Ooh, there might be something going on here. What's about to happen with UConn's perfect streak. But, no, they remain perfect, I think, to the degree of just being excellent and also having the experience of being able to be resilient and bouncing back. They came out and took down Tennessee 99, 66 after being tied at the half. Just turned them over, made Tennessee look slow. I mean, it was crazy. So they have retain the number one spot in your rankings, and they've had them all season. We spent a lot of time talking about the Huskies in our last episode. Uh, Chantel, you raise an interesting question in your article that came out Sunday after the game. Can Tennessee or Michigan provide a roadmap for future UConn opponents? And I'm curious, after the second half, you've made that. You obviously wrote that after the game, but what was it that you saw, at least maybe in the first half that made you go, hmm, there's a blueprint here?
- [07:29]
Chantelle Jennings
Yeah, that's why I posted it as a question, like, is there a blueprint here? And the blueprint would be sort of taking what Michigan did in that it was the second quarter or the third quarter against UConn, or taking what Tennessee did end of the first quarter, second quarter against UConn, if you can expand that to, you know, 40 minutes, because that's what it will take to beat UConn this year, could it work? And I think, as you, you know, the UConn players and coach said it after the game, like, a lot of it was getting UConn to speed up, to make them make uncharacteristic mistakes. I feel like maybe yesterday, Sunday was the first time that I have seen Sarah Strong look like a human being on the basketball court, which is saying something considering she's a sophomore and how many games we've seen her in. But she was triple teamed in the backcourt and just like threw the ball directly to a Tennessee defender. And I was like, I made a note of it. I was like, sarah Strong is a human. There was like her underclassman mistake. But I think it's finding ways to sort of speed them up. But the problem with UConn, similar to what Sabrina was saying about UCLA and knowing its identity and sort of playing into that, is that UConn is just very, very strong in who they are as a team. And I think you can get them to speed themselves up for a bit. You can get them to be uncharacteristic for a bit. Are you going to be able to do that through four quarters? I don't know. Because similar to UCLA, UConn is just one of those teams that can beat you every quarter by eight, and then at the end of the game, it's huge. This was different. They were tied at the half and then won by 30. But I think that also tells you about kind of the response level of this team, that once they do settle into themselves, you know, imagine if they had been like that through all four quarters, what the margin could have been.
- [09:06]
Discover Card Announcer
It's.
- [09:06]
Chantelle Jennings
It's pretty scary.
- [09:08]
Zena Kada
I agree. I mean, we asked the question, what team in the regular season can beat UConn on our last episode, and we couldn't come up with anything. And I. And I watched that first half being like. And I watched it peripherally. I was watching a bunch of different things, but I was like, dang, Tennessee must have listened. They must have been listening to our show. And then all of a sudden, yeah, the second half happened. We were like, okay, never mind. UConn continues it's dominance.
- [09:34]
Chantelle Jennings
And this was without Blanca Quinones. Like, I mean, that's the other part of it, too.
- [09:38]
Zena Kada
And that was the part that was interesting for me in the first half in the way that Tennessee sped up UConn. Typically, you see that. And I would feel that UConn would be more susceptible to that with Blanca on the floor because she is a player that likes to play with a little bit of speed, a little bit of tenacity. And just like, I mean, I don't like to call her like a wild horse. I've read her be described that way, but sometimes she can be. And how fast she is and how powerful she is going up in the court. But no, it was the likes of Sarah Strong, KK Arnold, just like different players feeling like, oh, you're a little bit in a pressure cooker than you.
- [10:12]
Chantelle Jennings
Typically see on that point, though. Like, that frenetic pace was really what messed with them a bit. And I think UConn is a good enough team. That unfortunate for other teams around the country. They're not a team that has to learn a lesson more than once. You know, Sarah Strong had her one human moment. I doubt we'll see it again. Like, she's never going to make that same mistake in a game. I could almost bet you that. And so going back to the idea of a roadmap, like, has Michigan, has Tennessee provided some kind of a roadmap? Maybe. But also, whoever uses that as a roadmap is not going to be able to do exactly what those teams did because now UConn has learned the lesson of it.
- [10:45]
Zena Kada
Well, Shantel, I appreciate you perfectly laying out my roadmap to keep this going because Michigan is actually the team I want to talk about. And that Michigan, Michigan State game. And I actually want to shout out one of our listeners. Hoops coach Maddie posted a story on her Instagram and I wish I would have screenshot it. It was so cute. But she was just like, the sun is shining and Michigan's playing Michigan State today, and she was listening to the UConn episode of no off season. So shout out hoops coach Maddie for being a listener and just being happy about the world. I just you found the little br. And the funny thing is I actually genuinely don't know who she was going for. I'm like, I have no idea. But either way, if she watched that game, she was very, very happy with the outcome. Regardless, it was competitive. Went to overtime. It was exactly what you would want in a rivalry, Sabrina.
- [11:34]
Sabrina Merchant
Yeah, totally. I mean, it's the first time both teams have played when they've been ranked top 15. And it just was a super, super fun game. You know, like, we see a lot of these games where pressure gets to teams and it's a little tense and maybe it's not the most well played game, even if it is competitive. Right. Like, we've talked about games that are close but not necessarily good. This was both. Right. Like, it's really fun when they're close games and good games. And obviously a game that ends in the 90s is going to be featuring a lot of offense. Right. Like, Both teams shot 50% from the field. Both of them shot 40% from three. You know, just a lot of people in double figures. I thought this was one of Mila Holloway's best games in a Michigan uniform. Like, it's so funny. I keep watching, like, the trio of Michigan sophomores, and it's like, is Sila the one who makes things go? Is Olivia the one who makes things goes? Maybe it's Mila. And this is a game where it was, you know, Mila really setting the tone there. And then I just thought, like, Kennedy Blair, I think of Michigan State more as a veteran team, and the reason they've been doing so well is because they have so much experience. Keeps coming up a lot on this podcast. But the likes of Grace Van Slooten and Jaylen Brown and Satello, they're all older players. And yet Kennedy Blair, redshirt sophomore, just so much gumption down the stretch. That shot that you hit to tie the game in regulation was just, I mean, what a drive, what a take. No team could really build any separation, right. Michigan kept trying to pull away, kind of pulling away, and even up four in the final minute. And yet, like, how often do you see a team that is up four in the final minute almost lose the game on a bus repeater, Right? Like, that shouldn't be happening. Just the number of possessions left over.
- [12:53]
Zena Kada
The stress on that shot. I mean, one, the turnover, right? Like, you're thinking they're about to lose a possession. You're scared, you're. And I actually thought there was going to be another pass before Sotello took the Shot. Yes, exactly. And so shot goes up, guys, if you haven't seen it, I mean, literally touches every part of the rim, hits the backboard, then hits every part of the rim, comes out. Yeah, the reaction shot was amazing.
- [13:21]
Chantelle Jennings
Watch Olivia Olsen, specifically Olivia Olsen folds over, hands on the head. And then it's like, oh, now we have overtime.
- [13:29]
Zena Kada
Okay.
- [13:30]
Chantelle Jennings
Turns, walks back to the bench. And I was like, olivia Olsen. Is everyone right now, like, on both teams, where it was like, it didn't go in. Oh, okay. Now, over time, like, yeah, we gotta play, right?
- [13:41]
Zena Kada
It was a very, very good game. Michigan ends up beating Michigan State 94, 91 in OT. And, you know, what does this mean for Michigan? This is. This is a big win. It's a big win on a national scale. And we've had a little bit of ups and downs with Michigan this season as far as. Are they in that top 10 consistently? Right now, per the AP poll, they're number nine. But I feel like this was a contending game. This is a big marker on their future going into the rest of the Big Ten, but also the tournament.
- [14:16]
Chantelle Jennings
I think it gives Kim Barn Sirico sort of like a plot point for her team. We've seen Michigan come close against top 25 opponents, like, in those late games, and then lose just by, like, a hair against UConn against Vanderbilt. So to sort of get over the hump against the top 25 team on the road in state rivalry, like, all of those different layers of pressure, and to have this be the game where they're able to close it out. And obviously, we've talked about what that final minute looked like to get to that point. I'm sure there will be a lot of teaching moments in that film, but to get into overtime and close it out on the road, I think this is a veteran sophomore team, if there is such a team in college hoops. So they're still learning, they're still playing together in a way that maybe feels new in some ways. But this gives them just that piece of memory that as they go into March, they can say, well, we've done this. We've closed out a game like this.
- [15:04]
Sabrina Merchant
Before, and this was a really important game just for, like, Big Ten standings purposes, because, you know, if they had lost, they would have two Big Ten losses. Basically kind of takes them out of consideration for the regular season title. With UCLA still undefeated. Now you only have one loss. You're hosting UCLA this week. So this is your chance to, you know, take control of the conference and really, you know, do something That I don't think a lot of us thought that a group of sophomores would be doing in the Big Ten this year.
- [15:27]
Zena Kada
Ooh, okay, that's. That's some big, big chips on the table for them with UCLA coming to town. But let's close out top of the show with some really awesome, dope, record setting, amazing news on the pro level. And I'm talking about that unrivaled, just massive showing of support that Unrivaled had in Philadelphia. Shout out to the city of Philadelphia for it was sisterly love and brotherly love that came out to support the unrivaled league. Break it down in terms of the history that was made, what Friday night was like in Philly. Just Sybrina, give us all the love that was felt in that city.
- [16:10]
Sabrina Merchant
Well, to clarify, I was not in the building, but the number of texts that I got from people about Marina Mabry's shooting performance specifically made me feel like everybody was watching Willie Unrivaled, maybe the most fun quarter of basketball I've had watching in a very long time. Just everything was going in, you know, like, the celebrations with the fans in the crowd. Like, Andre Drummond somehow being preeminently involved was very funny to me. A lot of love for Andre Drummond for being such a big Marina Mabry fan. But, yeah, I mean, who wasn't a Marina Mabry fan?
- [16:42]
Chantelle Jennings
I mean, who wasn't?
- [16:43]
Sabrina Merchant
After that quarter, though, like, I watched literally every video of, like, reactions to it. Like, Kyle Lowry just increasingly saying, oh, my God, a number of times over and over again as he's watching.
- [16:53]
Zena Kada
She was like, the. The way she played that game was kind of like if your mom used to play in the w like years and years and years ago. But you don't really believe it. Cause she was like, in the first wave, and you're like, all right, let's go to the driveway. Let's go to the driveway, mom. Let's see what's really, really good. And she just treated them like her kids. It was like, okay, you know, I'm a. Back up a little bit. I'mma back up a little bit. I'mma pull up. I'mma pull up and transition. Oh, you know what? You want to play with me a little bit? Let me cross over and go to the rack. I could do that too. This is real cute, guys. Dinner's at 7. Like, it was so ch way she played. And also because she has a bigger build as, like, this, like, big guard, big wing energy, I just felt like she was a son in everybody. And I loved it. I loved it.
- [17:39]
Sabrina Merchant
I mean, you mentioned the familial ties. I don't think it should go unstated that she was being guarded by her sister's girlfriend in Kalia Copper. So I mean that's a fun little wrinkle to all of it that she's playing in Philadelphia, you know, pretty close to New Jersey. Like there's just a lot working in Marina's favor in this particular night.
- [17:55]
Zena Kada
Can I tell you that Science of the heater. Oh, yeah, okay, yeah, hold on, wait, we gotta get into that. But just on the note on the Kahlilia Copper's girlfriend being Marina, maybe your sister. I didn't know that until I saw comments about it. I had no idea. So thank you to the ether for letting me know that. But I thought that was hilarious as well. Like, oh, family dinners at seven is even more a thing. Yeah, sorry, go ahead, Chantel.
- [18:23]
Chantelle Jennings
No, I was just saying that it's like you're watching that and the last time I sort of had this feeling watching a game where it was like everything they're taking is going in was Caitlin Clark's record setting night where it was sort of like she hit whatever. It was like her first five shots but like she didn't do that. What was it? 27 points that maybe had in about five minutes. Basically, like it was truly just like, oh, that's like just, just close your eyes and like throw. And the idea of like, oh, you know, the hoop just gets like so much bigger. I was like, someone at Harvard needs to study like whatever vibe she has right now, bottle it. And just like it was incredible.
- [18:59]
Zena Kada
Yeah, it was fun. It was fun. It was awesome. History was made. Total of 21,490 fans were in this NBA NHL arena and made this tour stop feel like the event to be at. Like I was mad I was not in Philadelphia on Friday night. So this is really cool. We'll see what happens with, you know, future years. We've alluded to this could change fundamentally the system of unrivaled if they decide to add more tour stops. As Sabrina, if you laid out perfectly of how this is really unrivaled is supposed to be a rest period, a period of development. So if you're adding tour stops and getting people on planes in the middle of snow, it's not going to be ideal for that rest aspect, but it's ideal for us. So unrivaled, I mean you can just.
- [19:47]
Sabrina Merchant
Tell like obviously unrivaled is secluded in this little hub In Medley Florida. And they houses a thousand people in its arena. And admittedly a lot of people do go to travel to see it, but it's not exactly the most convenient location for every basketball fan in America. So just to see that there was this appetite for people to want to watch unrivaled in a big arena. Like you mentioned record setting for professional women's basketball. Record setting for that arena itself. Like breaking a game that Michael Jordan played in. Record setting for any event in that arena. I think it broke a record set by a Backstreet Boys concert, which just wanted to include that whatever reason contest.
- [20:22]
Zena Kada
For a millennial podcast.
- [20:23]
Sabrina Merchant
I think it's awesome. Like, you know, I do obviously think that, like, it's. The purpose of Unrivaled is to be developmental, to be in one, a single site location, but like to have two or three of these on occasion and like show that there is an audience. And like, you can tell that it means something to the players to be able to play in front of that kind of crowd. It's just different than their soundstage in Florida.
- [20:44]
Chantelle Jennings
Right.
- [20:44]
Sabrina Merchant
Like, Marina Mabry, I don't think goes off for 27 points in a quarter if she doesn't feel 20,000 people cheering her on. Right.
- [20:52]
Zena Kada
Yeah, we were.
- [20:52]
Chantelle Jennings
Can I just say that I suggested Minnesota as a tour stop the last time we had this pod and we had this conversation, I said, it's too cold. And then Miami went and had record breaking low temperatures.
- [21:02]
Sabrina Merchant
Yes.
- [21:04]
Chantelle Jennings
Left Philly. And I was like, I think I did that. I think. I think I did that. I am sorry. I think Minnesota and Miami were like, sim. I mean, I think we were like 20 degrees. So, like similar enough. So all I'm saying is don't. Maybe they could just come to LA.
- [21:20]
Sabrina Merchant
Next winter, you know? Yeah.
- [21:22]
Pura Announcer
Okay.
- [21:22]
Zena Kada
Make it easy. Yeah, make it easy this weekend.
- [21:27]
Chantelle Jennings
All right. Sabrina, we've talked about this. You're not allowed to talk about it. You're not allowed to talk about it with me.
- [21:31]
Zena Kada
No bragging. I'm. Even in Northern California, we don't have that. Okay. But I just want to close out on this too. Unrivaled. You mentioned this in your piece about this, Sabrina. That unrivaled from their ticket sales in that one night in Philadelphia essentially equaled what Unrivaled drew in their first season at their home arena down in Florida. That is massive. That is huge.
- [21:55]
Sabrina Merchant
Yeah. About $2 million in revenue for that night.
- [21:58]
Zena Kada
Correct. There you go. So that's amazing. And you know that's what you want when you're running a business and you're trying to stay profitable. So we'll see what happens. All right, enough of all this. We gotta turn our attention to this or that or this. Or this. Or this or that. You'll see what I'm saying on the other side of this. Break. Break.
- [22:23]
Chantelle Jennings
Oh, could this vintage store be any cuter?
- [22:26]
Sabrina Merchant
Right?
- [22:26]
Jennifer
And the best part? They accept Discover.
- [22:29]
Sabrina Merchant
Except Discover in a little place like this? I don't think so, Jennifer.
- [22:33]
Jennifer
Oh, yeah.
- [22:34]
Zena Kada
Huh?
- [22:34]
Jennifer
Discover is accepted where I like to shop.
- [22:36]
Zena Kada
Come on, baby.
- [22:37]
Jennifer
Get with the times.
- [22:39]
Pura Announcer
Right.
- [22:40]
Sabrina Merchant
So we shouldn't get the parachute pants.
- [22:42]
Jennifer
These are making a comeback, I think.
- [22:46]
Discover Card Announcer
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- [22:53]
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- [23:23]
Sabrina Merchant
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- [23:36]
Chantelle Jennings
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Sabrina Merchant
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Zena Kada
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- [23:52]
Sabrina Merchant
That's ironcladapp.com podcast.
- [24:02]
Zena Kada
So now it is time for this or that, where we're going to dive into some of the things that we've enjoyed watching this college season. Whether it's on the sidelines, during action on the court, or even during a timeout. And these are the moments that make us stop and ask, which would we rather have? Now? Some of these. Let's just be fair. I have multiple options that are not just this or that. There might be a this, that that or this, this, that. You'll see what I'm saying. But there's a lot of competitive action on the court this week, and that's going to inspire our first this or that. Shantelle Sabrina when it comes to the final shot, okay, Imagine you are Michigan and Michigan State trying to win that game at the last shot. But. Or you're just any college. Who would you want taking that shot? And I'm choosing from the college ecosystem. Az Fudd, Hannah Hidalgo or Mikayla Blakes. And why? Chantel, I'm gonna start with you.
- [25:01]
Chantelle Jennings
So this is a tough one because, well, this is gonna be a tough game. Cause we're going up against Sabrina and I just feel like every argument she makes, this is not a game that we win.
- [25:09]
Zena Kada
Okay? No, this isn't a game we win.
- [25:12]
Sabrina Merchant
Competition.
- [25:12]
Chantelle Jennings
This feels like a competition. The way Az Fud started against Tennessee, it was just like similar Marina Mabry, like everything's going in. She, you know, she goes up 70 on Tennessee alone. However, I think for this one, I'm going to run on vibes here a little bit, not just stats. Hannah Hidalgo is having a different year than she did last year. Notre Dame's having a much different year this year than they did last year. That's a big part of it. But I'm going to take Hannah Hidalgo for a few reasons. One, I thought back to the UConn game last year and specifically just sort of the confidence she was playing with in that game, how she was putting her team on her back and the celebrations is really what put me over the top on this, is that if I have a player that's taking game on the line, taking the shot, I want someone who's going to celebrate the hell out of that. And of these three players, I think Hannah would have the best celebration. So I think if I have confidence level Hannah Hidalgo circa UConn last year with those celebrations. Final answer.
- [26:16]
Zena Kada
Okay, I like the idea of the celebrations. It's true. Hannah Hidalgo plays every single game. I feel like like an 8 year old that just discovered this basketball and she was just like raring to go. I can't believe I get to play this. It's so fun to watch. And you know, she is someone that will not only I think hit that shot, she'll also get the steel to be able to go hit that shot. She will like pester you to be able to get that opportunity. Sabrina, I'm gonna turn my attention to you. Who would you choose out of Az, Hannah and Mikayla.
- [26:48]
Sabrina Merchant
The thing is like in my head, I can picture Mikayla Blakes hitting a game winner probably because like it's the one I'm most familiar with recently seeing. You know, she had one, I think the same weekend as her Brother had a game winner last year. Our colleague Grace Rayner wrote about that at the site last year. But I think I'm gonna go with AZ and few reasons. One, if AZ has taken the shot, that means Geno is drawn up the play, which I feel good about. Two, she's big enough to get her shot off against just about anybody you're gonna throw at her. Right. It's harder to get in AZ's shot pocket in a way that like you can, you know, hinder Hannah Hidalgo or McKayla bikes because they're a little bit smaller than AZY is. And three, if by chance she gets fouled on this attempt, she's the best free throw shooter in the country, I think. So I feel very good about sending AZ to the line in that situation to hit game winning free throws. So, yeah, just like the perfection of the shot and the entire ecosystem around it I think is why I would go with AZ in this situation. Although, do you want to say I feel like we're shortchanging some of the Texas Tech players because Billy Moppins Soda Collins have hit some very big shots at the end of games this year, including this weekend against tcu. So just honorable mentions for those. For those players.
- [27:58]
Zena Kada
Fair. That's fair. That's fair. Oh, man. I feel like, okay, I actually might round us out here because I actually chose Mikayla Blakes and I think I also have some recency bias. I also interestingly have it as the fact that Mikayla Blakes is longer and taller that you know whether she can hit that outside shot, but she can also get around folks. She could put the ball on the floor and like, go at your hip and just be at the basket and then throw up some crazy and get Anne won. I just feel like her finishing capacity inside the paint is almost as, like, impressive as just her outside shot as well. I think her inside capacity is actually more impressive than her outside shot. But Yeah, I mean, 55 points in an overtime win, that. That just cements itself in my mind. So. Wow. We all chose different people. Okay, perfect audience, let's see.
- [28:48]
Sabrina Merchant
We don't have three choices for all of these.
- [28:50]
Zena Kada
I know, right?
- [28:50]
Sabrina Merchant
It really is just this or that going forward.
- [28:52]
Zena Kada
Right? It is this or that. We kind of broke the mold with the first question, but we're to get back to it. Very curious to hear what our listeners think about that first question. Okay, let's keep it going. Let's keep it going. This is a true this or that. We're going to stay on the court for A moment. If you are a team and you're building a team and you get to choose from all the press defenses, and we're particularly saying you got to choose Tennessee's press defense or Ohio State's press defense. I already know some of y' all just clamped up just thinking about it. Okay, thinking about that, Sabrina, which press defense would you choose?
- [29:33]
Sabrina Merchant
Yeah, this was really, really difficult because I think Ohio State's is objectively better. And, like, looking at the numbers they concede. Actually, no, no. The Tennessee defense concedes fewer points. I just think Ohio State's more disciplined in their press defense. And, like, I know how it's going to look on any given possession, but Tennessee just has this way of, like, getting people out of control. Like, Chantal just mentioned that, you know, for a half against UConn that I don't think Ohio State does to the same effect. Like, there is a. There's a rhythm to Ohio State's press, which, like, you can almost start to figure it out. Whereas Tennessee's is just so chaotic. And I think it's chaotic in, like, a bad way for them, too. But the chaos itself really intrigues me, so I think I'd go with Tennessee in this particular situation.
- [30:14]
Zena Kada
Okay. All right. Where are you at, Chantal?
- [30:16]
Chantelle Jennings
So this is. This is good. I'll pick the opposite side here because Sabrina Stern started her answer with Ohio States is objectively better, and I thought, great, there's my answer. But I think. I think, because if we're talking about building one, I'm not sure really that we have seen what Kim Caldwell's defense will look like here. Like, against Yukon for that stretch, it looked excellent. It was like they turned Yukon over four times in five possessions. Again, made Sarah Strong look like a human. Like, I'm arguing against myself right now, I realize, but I think Ohio State's is just more well established, and because they've had players in the system a little bit longer sometimes throughout McGuff's career, that I feel like I just have more familiarity with it. So I feel like that is the way that I'm leaning right now, simply because it just feels like the way to go. They have a higher steal percentage, which I think if that's the goal, that feels like a pretty easy stat to pull from.
- [31:12]
Zena Kada
No, that's real. That's very real. And it's funny because I contemplated both of what you're mentioning. The Ohio State factor of experience, the fact that they've been this. This has been their identity for so long, and we're more recently coming into this identity with Tennessee since, like, way back when, when Pat Summitt was in that. In that boat. I haven't equated Tennessee to press defense until more recently. I'll just say that. However, I do like the chaos, and it's like Mia Paldo. I would never want to hold the ball around that girl. Like, I just feel like it would just be, oh, God, someone's coming at me, and at all times. I mean, Joniah Barker, like, being at the top of that thing sometimes and just being long and in front of you and just making you feel like I can't see. I just feel like the way that they have their squadrons. Right. It would be relentless. It's just constant. Always in your face. There's always energy to be had from their team somehow. I. I like the. The Tennessee pick, so I'm going to go with that one for me.
- [32:20]
Sabrina Merchant
Yeah. So according to Synergy, Ohio State's press concedes 0.71 points per possession, and Tennessee's concedes 0.67. Oh, so better for Tennessee. But I think the. The turnover margin is interesting here because, like, if Ohio State's turnovers are directly leading to points for Ohio State, then I don't really know how to factor all of that in.
- [32:40]
Zena Kada
Oh, right, right, right, right.
- [32:42]
Sabrina Merchant
Something to keep in mind.
- [32:43]
Zena Kada
Okay. Okay. All right, guys, is there press that we're forgetting is Virginia? West Virginia press? Virginia press, Virginia, Right. Exactly. Trying to think if there's a press that we're. I think West Virginia's press is being left out of this situation, but I'm just thinking about anyone else.
- [33:04]
Sabrina Merchant
It doesn't travel as well for me. It's very good in Morningtown. It's not as good outside.
- [33:08]
Zena Kada
It is. That's a good point. Wow. Okay. See, y'. All. We're always learning with Sabrina and Chantel. Okay, let's keep it moving. I got a fun one. And this is one that, let's just be real. Has nothing to do with this season. It has been a question I have seen for the. The entirety of the time that I've watched basketball. If you are a coach during a full time out. Okay, hands up, extended. You call a full time out. Would you rather have your team listening to you while they are on their bench, or do you break out the chair, set up a full half circle on the court, make yourself away from the crowd, and basically make yourself feel special out there on the floor. Chantelle, where are you going with this?
- [33:48]
Chantelle Jennings
I'm gonna say the bench I don't think you should waste time bringing the chairs out. They look really small. I bet they're less comfortable as a player. I think if you just keep things where they are, you get maybe four to five more seconds where you can chat with your coaches before you address the team. Give the players a little bit more time to talk to one another before you come into the circle to address them.
- [34:06]
Zena Kada
Okay, I'm with that. I. You said the bench.
- [34:11]
Chantelle Jennings
Yes.
- [34:12]
Zena Kada
I want to hear what Sabrina says before I share mine.
- [34:15]
Sabrina Merchant
Well, I think the way you frame the question, Xena, makes me think that you're gonna pick the bench because you said they were trying to feel cool while coming out. And I think. I think I'd make it a clean sweep because to me, they don't want to be on the bench because they're afraid of, like, somebody videotaping from the sidelines and seeing what's happening in their huddles or, like, maybe stealing what's on their board or something like that. And I think there's just too much hon, like, worry about sort of proprietary information. Yeah. Paranoia is going to leak out of these huddles. Like, okay, if you're being scouted, everybody knows what you're running, everybody knows what you're doing. Like, nobody's going to be watching the broadcast at the very same time and stealing something from the huddle and then relaying it to their players in the 30 seconds it takes for the full.
- [34:52]
Chantelle Jennings
Time out to just have one of your managers hold a towel behind, like, if that's what you're worried about.
- [34:57]
Sabrina Merchant
Like, I think about the college games that I've attended where I've sat behind the bench and literally a manager just stands there and just, like, faces the other direction like a security guard. And that's totally fine. Like, you don't need all of this, this, all these shenanigans to separate, you know, the huddle from the bench. I think it's just unnecessary extra effort. Just use the chairs that are already being provided for you there and have your meeting. And if you need to have the coaches huddle separately, just have them stand. It's not a big deal.
- [35:21]
Zena Kada
I'm so dead at have your meeting. That's a hilarious way to characterize a timeout. So you both have laid out exactly why I am also saying the bench. And it mainly has to do with the managers. When you bring extra chairs for your little meetings, who has to bring those chairs out? It's managers. Do you know what stress levels there are to make sure that you are running out full speed to make sure you have the semicircle perfectly set up. As players are walking back to the bench. They're tired, they want to sit down. They want to get full advantage of their 60 seconds. And you're over here worried about making sure that the seats are set up. Imagine. I've never seen it happen. But imagine if you set up one of those little folder chairs and it's not fully set up and a player falls. That is on you. That is on you.
- [36:12]
Chantelle Jennings
That's your last day as a manager.
- [36:13]
Zena Kada
That is your last.
- [36:14]
Sabrina Merchant
Either way, Ms. Zina said, imagine. I just.
- [36:17]
Zena Kada
I can't. I cannot. So all I'm saying is for the sake of the managers, just have those people sit on the bench. Okay? It is ridiculous. There's no. No one is out here. This is not spy level, you know, activity happening. No, there's not. I was going to say, you know, this isn't spygate talking about the NFL. No, this is. That's not what happens.
- [36:39]
Sabrina Merchant
And if someone is trying to cheat off of your huddles, they will find a way, whether you are by the bench or whether you are on the court.
- [36:44]
Zena Kada
That part. That part. There are multiple camera angles in the arenas, by the way, guys. But. Yeah.
- [36:50]
Chantelle Jennings
Is this our best analysis so far today? I'm just wondering.
- [36:53]
Zena Kada
I think we. I think we've broken it down to crushing it excessive degree. So let's keep it moving. Let's keep it moving. Moving. Now this is another fun one, but it's serious. It's serious. Imagine you're on the floor and you are playing for either Gino Oriemma or Dawn Staley. Okay? You make a turnover and it was a dumb one. It was not forced by the defense. You just made a silly pass and you hear it's.
- [37:29]
Discover Card Announcer
It's.
- [37:29]
Zena Kada
The ball went out of bounds and you hear that buzzer and you look back towards the desk and you see someone coming in with a towel in their hand and they're going towards you and you're turned around. You look at your coach, whose face do you not want to see more? Gino Oriema's or Dawn Staley's? Out of these two legends, Sabrina, who do you not want to see?
- [37:58]
Sabrina Merchant
I think I'm be more comfortable seeing Don's face just because Geno's would like be accompanied by Chris's too. And it's just like a double dose of disappointment that I don't want to have to deal with. Whereas Don, at least it's just the one you know the assistants are not as death stare as she is. So gotcha. That's how I feel. And it's also like, it's a lot more animated. I think when dawn does it, like, she's definitely in disbelief. And I think Gino gets disbelief too. But just like the theatrics of it make me feel less. I don't want to say threatened, but like less. I was worried about the situation.
- [38:36]
Zena Kada
All right, I like that. I like that. I didn't think about that way, especially with the doubling down of the faces down the bench. Chantel, where are you landing?
- [38:45]
Chantelle Jennings
I think it all depends on when you are looking at the coach. First of all, let's just be clear. I make that turnover, I'm walking straight out the door, going back to my door and packing and leaving. Either way, just in tears the whole time be like, I'll, I'll see myself up. Do not take the nil money. Just go like. I think dawn, her immediate reaction is like, you know, it happens. And then she's mad. I think by the time like buzzer goes, if you walk or jog off the floor, you better jog. You're not walking. You jog off the floor. I think by that point she's just like, oh, come on. I feel like Geno's angrier. Longer maybe, or maybe he times it better.
- [39:29]
Sabrina Merchant
He's just logging it, you know?
- [39:31]
Chantelle Jennings
Yeah, he's waiting for you to make eye contact. And also I just like honorable mention. Pat Summitt is, I think worse because her eyes were so blue that it's like piercing. It doesn't matter where she was on the floor and where you on the floor. It's like you can feel those. Like through the tv, you could feel those.
- [39:52]
Zena Kada
Yeah, I agree. So yeah, I agree about Pat Summer.
- [39:55]
Chantelle Jennings
None of the above. I'm just booking a one way ticket home.
- [40:00]
Sabrina Merchant
Okay.
- [40:00]
Zena Kada
Okay, I'm with that.
- [40:03]
Chantelle Jennings
See ya.
- [40:05]
Zena Kada
I just feel like, I mean, Gino's look is such a look of disappointment. It's just the. There is no theatrics as you mentioned, Sabrina. There is no, there's just, wow, that's just pathetic that you made this mistake and you're just like, oh, I can't believe I've disappointed you in such a way. But I also think about Dawn Staley in the championship game last year and her crumpling up her paper and just being like F. And I'm not gonna just yell the F word right now because I know we've got children in cars, but it's a family Show. It's a family show. But, like, her just being like, ugh, that still resonates with me of just, like, how can I put this much pain in someone off of my own mistake? So I say all that to say, I think. I think I'm choosing Geno. I would not want to see Geno's face after, because I feel like you're right, Serena. I do feel like after she finishes with the ugh, she'll come back and be like, okay, so how do we fix this for next time? Whereas Juno's gonna be like, you need to sit there and think about your reactions.
- [41:19]
Chantelle Jennings
Yeah. Three weeks later.
- [41:21]
Zena Kada
Yeah. Right?
- [41:21]
Sabrina Merchant
It's like, remember when you made that bonehead play against Seton Hall?
- [41:25]
Zena Kada
And the joke won't be to you. It will be to the media of just how terrible that decision was made. The love will still be there, of course, but it just. Yeah. So Geno is where I'm choosing. Very curious to hear what our listeners think about that one. All right, y' all know I love my bigs. I'm big on big, so I had to throw one of these in here. When it comes to showing up big, the pun is absolutely intended. In showing up in big moments, I want y' all to imagine you are a guard, and you're out on the perimeter, okay. And your footwork ain't working, your hips ain't moving the way they're supposed to move, and somebody blows right past you. You, and you're just like, dang. I really hope my backline defense can help me out here. Who is the player you trust to produce and get that clutch block at the right time? Do you want Clara Strack in your backyard, or would you want Lauren Betts in your backyard? Shantel, start with the you.
- [42:28]
Chantelle Jennings
So I am not bringing any stats that are, like, deep to this conversation, because I. I feel like it's pretty simple for me in that who I want back there is the more veteran player who has done this longer, who has seen everything a million times, who has watched more film than someone else. And so I'm going with Bets here as the older player.
- [42:51]
Zena Kada
Okay. All right. Where are you at, Sabrina?
- [42:54]
Sabrina Merchant
Yeah, I think just the size with Bets is sort of the differentiator for me. You know, like, the arms are just a little bit longer, a little bit more reach. She does have the better career block percentage. The veteran thing, I mean, she's a year older than Strack. Like, it's. It's something. It's not like, a huge differentiator for Me. But, yeah, like, every time Betts has, like, a late game block, it just feels meaner in a way that Clara Stracks don't. And she, like. I don't know how to explain it. Like, maybe because she just sort of, like, stares at you. Strack is not in the same, like, get that out of here type player that Lauren Betts is, even though she is a very prolific shot blocker and the reigning SEC Defensive Player of the year, for what it's worth. But, yeah, I think I'd go with Bets, too. The extra 2 inches really just seals it for me.
- [43:38]
Zena Kada
You know, I am dying because I just watched a few weeks ago, I was watching Kentucky play Florida, I believe it was, and Clara Strack had a block where she, like, blocks it into the cheerleaders, and she literally just goes doop. And then walks, turns around to her teammates. One of her teammates, like, chest bumped her, and she was just like, okay, what's the next thing we're gonna do? Okay, they're gonna probably do it out of balance play. Like, it was like she was about the business. She just, like, moved. She moved on politely. Meanwhile, Lauren Betts will block your shot. And it's like, yeah, like, you are just feeling it. It is nastier. It does feel like there's a little bit of extra to it. And if her sister's out there with her, forget. It's just like your life is done if you were the person trying to go up and, you know, put up a shot. So I actually, I was on the same boat with the Bets. I think we're having a clear. A clean sweep here. The disrespectful element to the blocks that comes from Lauren Betts is part of what I like. But you're right. Lauren Betts also, statistically has a few more blocks back there. But Claire Strat, like, she has consistently upped her block percentage, upped her. Her ability to be in the right place on the right time. So I just wanted to give her that credit. But, yeah, Lauren Betts, you're holding it down. You're the person I would want behind me. I'd let people go by olay. Don't worry, Lauren's back there. I'm all good. Don't worry about it. Coach. Close. I knew what I was doing. Okay. I knew what I was doing. Okay. Let's do another basketball one. This one's about the pick and roll. Which combo are you taking? Iowa's chit chat Wright and ava Haydn or TCU's Olivia Miles? And Clara Silva. Ooh. Both of these two new pick and roll combos. Sabrina, which one you choosing?
- [45:27]
Sabrina Merchant
Yeah, I don't mean to, like, step on Chantel's veteran shoes here, but I think just Olivia Miles, I don't think there's a better pick and roll point guard in the country than she is. Like, I don't even care what big you put next to her. The fact that she's only had one season playing with Clara Silva, like, it could literally be any person six, three, or taller. And I would trust Olivia Miles in the situation. Like, the type of darts that she throws to the corners, like, every three TCU gets feels like a good shot when it's created by Olivia Miles. She just. Whether it's a high screen, whether she's getting all the way downhill and then kicking out of there or just throwing a pass from the opposite wing, she just has every passing tool in her wheelhouse. And you look at the offensive rating when both Silva and Olivia Miles are on the court, and it's about 115 points per possession. You know, contrast that with Iowa. It's only 109 when chit chat and Ava Haydn are both on the court. And again, we alluded to this with Iowa earlier. Like, their first season together. They'll figure out a way to get better as they continue along at Iowa. But, like, I mean, this isn't even about, like, Haydn versus Silva. This is literally just an Olivia Miles comparison because she is so dominant in that point composition that I can't imagine picking anybody else as a pick and roll combo if one of them involved Olivia Miles.
- [46:38]
Zena Kada
Okay, I'll just say this like, I'm with you. I'll go ahead and cheat before we get to Chantel. I'm with you. I also like Olivia Miles and Clara Silva. I think Clara Silva particularly. I mean, yes, Olivia Miles, give her all the flowers, which you just gave. But I also think that Clara Silva does a really great job of setting screens, and that is a lost art of just being a good screener and then re screener when necessary for Olivia Miles. And the fact that they're already getting that kind of chemistry down with just one season, not even a full season under their belt, is, like, really impressive for Clara Silva. But Chit Chat Wright, to me is, I love despite her size, her ability to come off, pull up, find herself within the pockets off that pick and roll, and then also she distributes from it. But I particularly am impressed mostly with her ability to create for herself and create her own shot off of The. The pick and roll, which is why I'm throwing her in there. So I'm with Olivia Miles and Clara Silva. But I do have to give Chit Chat her due credit. I mean, Ava does finish really well, too, I think, when getting those lobs over the defense. And, you know, I'll throw in sulky there too, for that matter. But that's not the conversation. The conversation. We're not gonna add another that it is Chit Chat and Ava or Olivia and Clara. We're right now two out of two for tcu. Chantelle, are you breaking us?
- [48:01]
Chantelle Jennings
Yeah, I'm not gonna break us on this one either. Similar to Sabrina, I think I'm gonna go with Olivia Miles here. If you look on Synergy right now, TCU scores 0.95 points per possession. That Olivia Miles is the ball handler and a pick and roll. When it's a high pick and roll, that's 0.962. That's a pretty good number. Like, if the ball is in Olivia Miles hand, there's a high pick and roll. Like, I. I feel really confident. I don't care who's setting the screen. Claire is obviously a great complimentary piece there, but I think a lot of this comes back to Olivia. She's a vet. She's seen it a million times. She makes the right decisions in those moments, and she can knock down the shot.
- [48:38]
Zena Kada
Okay. All right. Are there any other pick and roll combinations that we are declining to add here?
- [48:45]
Sabrina Merchant
Yeah, so one that occurred to me was I just think Raven Johnson is kind of underrated as a pick and roll ball handler. I know we don't really think of South Carolina as, like, a high pick and roll offense, but. But she's gotten really good reading the defense out of top of the key, and she has an awesome screener in Medina Okote or even Joyce Edwards when they play pick and roll. South Carolina's offense is also tremendous when Raven Johnson is on the court about 123 points per possession. So, yeah, Raven Johnson, especially as you look forward to the next level with her, is a little bit more versatile as an offensive player than we sometimes give her credit for, just because of all of the balance that we usually see on South Carolina's roster.
- [49:22]
Zena Kada
Yeah, it's always a little bit difficult to outshine on South Carolina's roster because they are so evenly distributed in terms of their talents. Like, everyone has their own individual talents, but it's hard to see someone being particularly amazing because everyone contributes to that. Like, you can't have a Raven Johnson be phenomenal at pick a role without Joyce Edwards being. Or Medina Cotte being really phenomenal at finishing inside. Right. It just kind of just balances out. Okay, that's a really good ads. Okay, last one. We're gonna have some fun here. You are in the game about to come out, and you just went through Tennessee's press. It was chaotic as hell, and you're just like, I need refreshments. Okay. I am parched. I need some energy. I need to quench my thirst before heading back in the game. What are you hoping when you squeeze the bottle at the end of your bench is coming out? Parry or Gatorade? And what flavor, Sabrina?
- [50:22]
Sabrina Merchant
I mean, I don't even know why this is a question. Like, it's clearly Gatorade. I thought about when we had this idea last week. Like, should I try Powerade for the first time in maybe 20 years? Because I don't even remember what it tastes like. But no, it's Gatorade. It's blue Gatorade. I have nothing to add here.
- [50:36]
Zena Kada
Okay. Okay.
- [50:38]
Chantelle Jennings
Is that the glacier freeze? The blue?
- [50:40]
Sabrina Merchant
No, it's like the.
- [50:41]
Chantelle Jennings
Is there another blue or something?
- [50:44]
Zena Kada
Okay, we should actually check these. These flavor names. That's hilarious.
- [50:48]
Chantelle Jennings
Oh, yeah, there's cool blue and there's glacier freeze.
- [50:50]
Sabrina Merchant
Okay.
- [50:51]
Zena Kada
Okay. Okay. So where are you at? So.
- [50:57]
Chantelle Jennings
What tastes really nostalgic to me is the fruit punch. Like, that was the first flavor of Gatorade I ever had. And so, yeah, Chantelle's not even acknowledging Powerade.
- [51:06]
Sabrina Merchant
It's just Gatorade.
- [51:08]
Chantelle Jennings
No, I mean, I. I couldn't name a single Powerade flavor right now. Like, I'm sorry. I think we know where Zena's going with this one. But, no, I think I would choose fruit punch. Gatorade it is also, I think, you know, it just reminds me of, like, fifth grade Reckoned basketball.
- [51:27]
Sabrina Merchant
Excellent choice. Yeah, good.
- [51:30]
Chantelle Jennings
And you're not. And you, like, you're working so hard. You need those extra electrolytes you don't like. I would say fruit punch. It's also what I go for now when I feel under the weather. What fifth grader needs it. Come on, guys.
- [51:46]
Zena Kada
Come on.
- [51:48]
Chantelle Jennings
I mean, maybe some good ones, but, like, I didn't. I was fine with room temperature water.
- [51:54]
Zena Kada
Good for you. That's the real winner right there. The jugs that don't have any ice in them. And you're just like, you thought you were getting Gatorader power rating actually is water. And you're like, oh, that's tough. That is really, really tough. Yeah, I was. We were a Powerade school, you know, So I have a little bit of an affinity to a Powerade, particularly the strawberry lemonade. Powerade. Okay. It is fire of a flavor. Do I necessarily believe that Powerade is better than Gatorade? No. However, knowing what did the job for me for four years, I'm gonna not turn my back on Powerade. Okay. Like, y' all, too. No, I'm joking. This makes this. This makes sense, though. The average population would probably choose Gatorade, but if you were a Coca Cola school, cool. You're going with Powerade. And that's where we're at.
- [52:42]
Chantelle Jennings
I had no idea. Strawberry lemonade actually sounds pretty nice.
- [52:46]
Sabrina Merchant
Sounds very refreshing. Honestly, it's so good.
- [52:49]
Chantelle Jennings
I didn't even know that was an option.
- [52:50]
Zena Kada
Go get it. Go try it. This ain't even an ad. Okay. This is not an ad for Powerade. I'm telling you, though, it is actually really, really good. Particularly try to, like, work out and then get it. It's going to hit. It's going to hit.
- [53:02]
Chantelle Jennings
See, that's where you lost it. Sodium. Yeah.
- [53:07]
Zena Kada
On that note, we gotta close out this show. Talk a little bit about a listener question. Don't go anywhere.
- [53:20]
Chantelle Jennings
Oh, could this vintage store be any cuter?
- [53:23]
Pura Announcer
Right.
- [53:24]
Jennifer
And the best part, they accept Discover.
- [53:26]
Sabrina Merchant
Except Discover in a little place like this? I don't think so, Jennifer.
- [53:30]
Jennifer
Oh, yeah.
- [53:31]
Gab Announcer
Huh?
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Jennifer
Discover's accepted where I like to shop.
- [53:34]
Zena Kada
Come on, baby.
- [53:34]
Jennifer
Get with the time.
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Gab Announcer
Right.
- [53:37]
Sabrina Merchant
So we shouldn't get the parachute pants.
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Jennifer
These are making a comeback, I think.
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Discover Card Announcer
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Paige DeSorbo
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Sabrina Merchant
Can I make my site firmer?
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Discover Card Announcer
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- [54:42]
Zena Kada
All right, y', all, we are diving right back into our mailbag. You know we love hearing from you all. Like I mentioned last week, we're going to be doing this from time to time. So keep writing in with your questions. Someone named Sarah. Thank you. Sarah emailed us to ask. I wanted to ask a question that has been burning in my mind for a while. Sarah, this is what I think your voice sounds like, but it's kind of more on the subjective side. Why do WNBA teams sometimes hang on to players who are who either were hype when first drafted and never really lived up to it or players who consistently seem to either never see playing time or underperform? Some examples. Sarah did give these examples. So Sarah went number one. An option is Kia Stokes went 11th in her draft. Mikayla Onyenwere went sixth in her draft. Kirsten Bell 11th in her draft. Kia Nurse 11th in her draft. These are all first round picks. Um, now what I do not know is where what category she assigns these players in whether they are hype when first drafted, never really lived up to it or never see playing time or underperforming. Y' all can make those assumptions on that. But she also mentioned I can also think of diamond to Shields. I know she had a major surgery and ultimately did get cut. Can you think of others who fit into this category? This is a tough one. Anyone have immediate thoughts on this question?
- [56:05]
Sabrina Merchant
Well, just first off, I don't really think diamond deshields belongs because of the health issues that she's had. You know, having to relearn to walk, I think dramatically changes who you are as an athlete. So I prefer to exclude her from this particular conversation. But yeah, in general it is just hard for people to admit mistakes. You know, when you have you use a big free agency draft tool on a player and if it doesn't go well, not that I'm saying any of these players didn't go well because Kia Stokes, multi time champion Kirsten Bell, multi time champion Michaela on where I was rookie of the year when she was drafted. But yeah, if you're a general manager and you use a draft pick on a player, you are invested in making sure that that player turns out well. Well and it is hard to admit fault if things don't go well. So I think a lot of it is just natural human stubbornness. You know, like you drafted a player, you want to make sure that player produces for your franchise and then part of it is like people are kind of getting lost their rookie contract because they're cheap contracts and it's just easier to have that player on your roster because it's not really costing you a whole lot to keep them that's two.
- [57:11]
Zena Kada
Very good points and I'll add a third. I think that some, especially some of these players that were listed here as examples. There is something to be said about the value of continuity. Just having a veteran or having a presence that has been within your culture, within your system for a while or they're able to be like the veteran to the younger folks that are coming into the program that are supposed to be the ones to change the trajectory of a team. Like I look at the likes of Akia Nurse being a vet, Mikayla Nywere in Chicago even, like there's something to be said about how much teams and front offices value. We don't have to worry about her. Like we don't have to worry about anything in terms of off the court behaviors. We don't have to worry about. She might not be our star player, but she'll be able to produce something. She'll be able to keep everyone around us level head, understanding the mission and the goal. And I think all four of these players, Kia, Mikayla, Kirsten, Kia, two Kias, just notice that. But all four of these players you could say are behind the scenes glue folks, people that keep the locker room up or light or focused. Chantel, anything to add?
- [58:21]
Chantelle Jennings
Yeah, I think, you know, you guys have kind of hit a lot of different points here. But you know, if we want to spin Sarah's question forward a little bit, I'm really curious to see how this shakes out with the new CBA negotiations variations because I think under the last one, obviously teams could carry up to 12 players, but a lot of teams only carried 11 because of how the math, math, like if you're paying multiple players close to or at the supermax, you have to carry some players for 70,000 and so you're going to be doing different things. And, and I would bet you, you know, you look back at some of these seasons and I was just looking, you know, this is a business. You're going to have people who are making $200,000 and people, you know, like Kia Stokes 2023 championship year for the Aces made 81,000. Like there are going to be GMs there that say like she didn't underperform like that was, you know, she Contributed More than $81,000 worth of whatever, you know, when she was a starter.
- [59:22]
Sabrina Merchant
That's how you're looking at the season on that Aces.
- [59:24]
Zena Kada
Right.
- [59:25]
Sabrina Merchant
Kirsten Bell, they're not going to call it season on this last Aces team.
- [59:28]
Chantelle Jennings
Yeah, right. You're not the business part of it. The bottom line part of it, like when you think of the league like that, because that's what it is, it's a money making league. That's what it is. But I'm really curious to see with this new CBA how the contracts are structured with salaries going up with whatever the cap looks like, how these, these different things can be broken down from just a numbers perspective, how that changes from the high to low end of salaries. Because you know, especially as free agency became, became more robust in the last few years, you saw this happening more where you have a few players making the two hundreds by default, then you have to have at least three or four making 70 to 80. And there were those players that like Sabrina said, part of it was they were on their rookie scale contracts. That's a good deal for the franchise. Others are their vets who contribute. And I think those franchises might say like that player contributed way more to our bottom line than $80,000. That was actually one of our best value players.
- [60:21]
Sabrina Merchant
I think part of it is also just the certainty that you get with these kinds of players like Kia Stokes. It's not going to be WNBA all star, but Becky Hammond knows anytime that there's a defensive possession, she can put Kia Stokes on the floor and she's going to execute the game plan. Like you know exactly what you are going to get from a veteran. Maybe they didn't perform to their draft slot, so to speak, but like the knowledge of knowing exactly how that part of your roster is going to perform is sometimes just safer than throwing, you know, a dart at like a flyer, at like an international player who you're unfamiliar with or like a rookie, you know, that was drafted later, you know, in the draft. I think there's so much like there's so many variables in building a roster. Like you never know how things are going to fit or like how players are going to work with one another. So just to have like, hey, this veteran, they're not going to shoot 40% from 3, maybe like 34. Like I know what's going to happen. Like that's just, it's useful to know that going into a season that you have that element of I got this player. That's why they just stick around because they're good locker room folks. They perform exactly like as they're expected to. And maybe they're not going to wow you, but you don't always need a wow from like the 8th or 9th player on your roster.
- [61:30]
Zena Kada
It's that continuity aspect.
- [61:32]
Chantelle Jennings
This is kind of not to the players that we're talking about right now. But, like, the WNBA is, again, kind of specific in this way as a professional league that, like, you look at other leagues and it's like, oh, a first rounder. And it's like up until this point, like, there were lottery picks who weren't making teams their first year. And that's almost unheard of in other professional sports leagues. But because there were so few available spots in what has become a pretty veteran heavy league, like, you know, it's not apples to apples if I don't know how Sarah's looking at this against other professional leagues. But, you know, it's really hard to make a WNBA roster harder than other leagues, really.
- [62:05]
Zena Kada
And I'll say, to close it out, Chantelle, when you were talking about looking at the new CBA and spinning this board, I was even thinking about the fact that this is not a conversation we've had really in the WNBA about people being on teams for too long. I think people are now paying attention to it more because they're looking at, at these folks that they cheered on in college and seeing them not be able to get roster spots, and they're just like, hold on, what's taking the opportunity? Oh, it's these veterans. It's these people that you'd expect if you're gonna be on a team, you are producing these, you know, unbelievable numbers. And people have opinions about that. And so I think this newfound visibility and just, I think reverence for the WNBA and women's basketball overall is causing folks to ask some questions and shout out to Sarah for putting this one. But love to hear what you guys think about this, too, because, yeah, we're starting to pay attention to should this player be on a roster and all that. And I think this new CBA and this new era of the WNBA is going to be very interesting to see how it all shakes out. All right, y', all, that is all we've got for you today. We will be back on Friday. Make sure you keep those questions coming. Until then, make sure you do your job. Subscribe, tell your friends, tell your mama, tell another family to come on over and listen to us. I'm also dying because we said it's a family show. And then like two seconds later, Sabrina says the S word. But alas, we move. Anywho, we love to hear from you. Head on over to our partner as well. There's more content over there. The yahoo.sports hub sports.yahoo.com Womens sports on behalf of the Athletics, Chantelle, Sabrina Merchant and let's just be real. All of our potty malps, we do have them. I'm just trying to be on my best behavior. I'm Zena Kada. Thanks for listening and we'll see you next time. No Offseason is hosted by Zena Kada with Chantelle Jennings and Sabrina Merchant. It's produced by Tanika Burrell. Our executive producer is Andrea B. Scott. Our theme music is by Marcus Bagala. Monica Compton is our video editor. Shannon Ryan is managing editor of women's basketball at the Athletic. Jesse Burton is our head of audio, and Tim McMaster is director of audio operations.
- [64:31]
Paige DeSorbo
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Gab Announcer
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- [65:51]
Zena Kada
Thy ticket, Lady Jennifer of Coolidge.
- [65:54]
Jennifer
Well, many thanks, good sir. Here is my Discover card.
- [65:59]
Zena Kada
They accept Discover at Renaissance fairs?
- [66:02]
Jennifer
Yeah, they do here. Discover is accepted at the places I love to shop. Get it with the times.
- [66:08]
Zena Kada
With the times. You're playing the loot.
- [66:12]
Jennifer
Yeah, and it sounds pretty good, right?
- [66:14]
Discover Card Announcer
Discover is accepted at 99% of places that take credit cards nationwide. Based on the February 2025 Nielsen.