← No Offseason: The Athletic Women's Basketball Show
No Offseason: The Athletic Women's Basketball Show
Transfer portal shifts, R.I.P Pac-12 and defending Caitlin Clark
00:48:08
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- [00:00]
Chantel Jennings
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- [01:16]
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- [01:38]
Angela
There to watch them.
- [01:39]
Zena Keda
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- [02:46]
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- [04:51]
Angela
For the Athletic I'm Zena Keda and this is the Athletic Women's Basketball show presented by Michelob Ultra. Welcome back to the Athletic Women's Basketball show presented by Michelob Ultra. I've been talking about this for weeks now. I've been hinting at it. I've been giving you all this anticipation, but we are here. We are finally talking about NCAA Women's Basketball. Joining me today is national Women's basketball writer for the Athletic, Shantel Jennings. Welcome Shantel. It's so great to have you on.
- [05:34]
Camila Cardoso
Thanks Zena. It's so great to be here.
- [05:36]
Angela
Well, I for one am someone that has just been impatiently waiting. I would say impatiently waiting for this season to arrive, especially after the very entertaining, energetic way that madness closed out last April. I mean, I think the whole world kind of caught up with what has been going on in the NCAA world of women's basketball for decades. But allowing them to see the tenacity, the energy, the personalities, just all of what women's basketball has to offer, particularly on the collegiate level. I am, I'm pumped for people to just finally catch up. So welcome everyone. It's a safe space. We're going to talk women's basketball, but first up, I want to start off with probably the number one talked about team from last year and then also number one, preseason favorites lsu. In this off season, they loaded up with some newcomers and before we even get into LSU particularly I do want to talk about this transfer portal because I don't think people really appreciate the transfer portal enough and how this has changed and how it's really changing the landscape of women's basketball. When I played, when you transferred, you had to sit out a year before you could play it the next year. Right? So you had to red shirt so you couldn't immediately go and make an impact. That is not the case anymore. Players are coming to new programs and being able to join. Can you walk us through what this new transfer portal and protocol looks like in the ncaa?
- [07:07]
Camila Cardoso
Yeah, so, and I think the added layer to this is that players still have that Covid bonus year. So they have basically some players, I should say people like Angel Reese for instance, or Caitlin Clark have potentially an extra year which plays into the transfer portal intrigue as well. But the transfer portal itself is sort of this mystical world where players can enter it at the ends of their seasons or you can actually enter before. But most players, if they know they want to leave, they'll enter at the end of their season and they can say they want to be contacted by anyone or they only want to be contacted by certain schools. And at that point they basically have a second recruitment and they can go through a few different visits. They have basically official visits all over again. And so what this is doing is it's allowing players sort of that freedom of movement that coaches always have. But also you're seeing specifically mid major players who maybe in years past would have sort of toiled at this mid major level and never really had an opportunity to play for a national title, jump up to that high major level. Players like LSU forward Anissa Morrow, who came from DePaul and was just sort of this do everything player for Depaul last year and is now playing for the preseason favorites.
- [08:23]
Angela
So I want to get your opinion on the transfer portal and this new shift to it because it is a very different experience when you look at, for example, South Carolina and them going 129 and nine with their most recent graduating class. Insane over the course of four years. But they came in together. They went through blood, sweat and tears on the court together. There is something to be said about going through a program together and learning the essence and the elements of the game together, as opposed to someone just transferring in that had a different elevation in the game. Right. Or I would say almost like a rearing. Right. Like in the sense of growing in the game of college basketball. What's your thoughts on this? Do you think it's good for the game?
- [09:11]
Camila Cardoso
I think it depends on what you're defining as good for the game. Right. Is it something that gets people talking about the game, that draws interest in the game, that maybe the people. It's like the people who like the NFL because of fantasy football but don't actually watch the games. Right. That still is sort of driving interest and conversation. And so is it good in that way? Yeah, it's good. You have these players who are jumping into the portal and are these former top recruits who are leaving for one reason or another and getting to go somewhere else. I think it's great for players who truly have sort of a reason why, you know, there's a lot of players who get into the portal because they want to get closer to home or, you know, they have switched their major or something like that. Right. Like, there are a lot of really good reasons to get into the portal that have nothing to do with basketball. And there's a lot of good reasons with basketball to get into the portal, but I think that's something people don't really talk about as much in terms of the recruitment process. I think it's really fascinating when you talk with coaches because everyone is still saying, you know, sort of the. The bloodline of this program is going to be high school recruits. They want players who are going to come through for four years. And what you hear from coaches over and over again, though, is that basically you have to consistently be re recruiting your players. Like, it's not like they come in as a freshman. They don't really play as much. And you're thinking in your head like, well, you know, they're coming into the system. They're going to figure it out. We've got another three years with them. No, now it's okay. Do I really want this player or I do really want this player for another three years. So I need to make sure they see my vision. I need to basically re recruit this player so they don't jump into the transfer portal. And I think that part can be, you know, a little exhausting for coaches because it's not something they. They had to do five years ago, but it's something they're going to have to do from here on out. And so, you know, for players that need a change of scenery or a change of pace or something different, I think it's great, you know, there. I think that players should have more of that freedom of movement and that freedom of opportunity to be where they think they should be. And there are players who end up places their freshman year and it's not what they thought it was. Those players should be able to leave. Those coaches are able to leave. And so I think the players should too. And it's not. You can't enter the portal more than once unless you've already graduated. So it's not like players are going four different schools in four years. They can go into the portal once and transfer without sitting out. If they graduate for their graduate year, they can do another transfer without sitting out again. But it's not like this is four years, four schools type of a thing. It's not like it's happening over and over again. But in terms of a reporter, in terms of someone that thinks of it as, you know, there's sort of this lull in women's basketball talk, specifically at the college level. After the title game, people are watching where these players are going for the next month. So I think that drives interest and intrigue. There's something to write about, there's something to talk about. So it keeps me busy through April and May.
- [12:12]
Angela
Oh, I bet. And I think you're right in the sense that it gives you almost like a professional feel to it. Right. Like you look at it as people talked about, particularly when you talk about Haley Van Lith and we're definitely going to get to lsu. I just wanted to make sure. I asked you about these transfers because it is a fascinating concept that there is all this movement now on the college level. Back then, if you didn't like where you were at freshman year, you. If you possibly could find someone to take you as a transfer, you still had to sit out a year. So the, the idea of it wasn't attractive, but you just kind of played through the system. You figured it out or you quit and that's, and that wasn't obviously an attractive option either. But I do think that there's this element of like free agency and like where's this person's gonna end up. And the biggest one, I think Haley Van Lith being one of the big signings in signing. Well, I feel like I'm talking about the WNBA or the NBA.
- [13:03]
Camila Cardoso
Yeah. Are we talking about pro sports right now or college? Still college.
- [13:06]
Angela
I know, still college. Still college. But Hayley Van Lith joining LSU and really possibly being the great fill in for Alexis Morris who just graduated. Haley Van Lith is not traditionally a point guard. She is someone that could create some, some offense for sure. She is someone that can distribute. She is someone that can create offense for herself, but she usually is off the ball. I'm very curious about what this is going to look like in the mix of a very set, star, focused, stacked LSU team. What are you most excited about? When you think about looking at this team and how they're going to come.
- [13:43]
Camila Cardoso
Together this year, I think from a purely basketball standpoint, I think you touched on it. Shot distribution. There's only one basketball, there's only so many shots to go around and you look at this roster and it is so stacked with talent and you just sort of think, okay, who's, who's going to star? And you talk to Kim Mulkey and it's, you know, different people at different times, different players at different situations. You know, Angel Reese is obviously going to be a huge part of this team, but so will Haley Van Let. So like there are going to be so many elements to this team which I think makes it really exciting. I don't think there will necessarily be, you know, whoever is the leading score, I don't think it will be by like 12 points. I think it's going to look committee ish in a way if you look at a full season box score. But I think every game, the attack mentality of the offense is going to look a little different. I think they're going to game plan really, really smartly so that they will exploit other teams defenses so that there might be games where Haley is sort of the featured player or where Anissa is the featured player. And so I think this is going to be an LSU team that really is going to be a pick your poison in terms of what are you going to get on any given night. Because there is so much star. There is so much star power and talent on that roster that you don't really know as the opposing team for.
- [15:04]
Angela
Me, the nissimoro, I mean, averaged 25 points a game. That's gonna be very interesting to see what her offense looks like within the mix of this. I know last Thursday they had an exhibition match against East Texas Baptist. They had Angel Reese on the floor, Philaud J. Johnson, Haley Van Lith from Louisville, now at LSU, Anissa Morrow, as you mentioned from DePaul, now with LSU. They dominated. They killed it. But we know exhibition games are a little early, but what would you say, Would you say it's. I mean, as a person that played basketball, I would say exhibition games, you're supposed to dominate. Right. But in terms of the chemistry, what.
- [15:40]
Camila Cardoso
Did you think of would be pretty worrisome if they didn't dominate. I would say if you had said, you know, only they're going to hold their opponent to single digit scoring in three of the four quarters, I would have been like, oh, really? Okay, all right. I see your LSU defense got it. Only one quarter did they get into double digits and that was 10 points. And so yes, but it was an overmatched opponent. I'm not putting that much stock into it. I think you look at these games with exhibitions and you kind of want to just give your team some time to run and pray that no one gets injured. So in that regard, it was a good game for lsu. Again, I think it comes back to shot distribution, where you Look, I think four different players took nine shots and Issa took 11. I think they attempted 75 field goals in that game. It'll be fewer than that in the regular season. And how that breaks down will be the most interesting thing for me throughout the season. But it was a really good defensive performance, which we expected. It was a high scoring, exciting offensive performance, which we expected. Do I think it will look this way when they play South Carolina? Absolutely not. And those are the games that I'm really looking forward to this season.
- [16:48]
Angela
Oh, for sure. Don Saley is not going to have them just running up the numbers on them. But let's talk about a team that could also make a break for it this year and also gave them, gave LSU a hard time in the tournament. Iowa. And Iowa has a lot of star power themselves, particularly in one player. We know the name Caitlin Clark. We also saw the game that was in the Kinnick Stadium. Huge, massive basketball game on a very, very, very, very small court in the middle of a football field. But Caitlin Clark was Caitlin Clark. She did what she was supposed to do. Showed up, gave a show. Do you think that this year the Caitlin Clark show will continue this season?
- [17:28]
Camila Cardoso
Yes, I do. I think it'll be a little bit different, but I think she'll be better than she was last year. I think the defining factor is obviously that Monica Zenono is not there and she was sort of the player that allowed Caitlyn to be Caitlyn. In a lot of ways, Addison O'Grady and Hannah Stolke are both very good players, but they are not Monica. And I actually asked Caitlin about this earlier this year at the Big Ten media days, and she said, I don't need Hannah to be Monica. I don't need Addison to be Monica. I need them to be themselves, and we're going to learn how to play together. And I think that's the truth. Caitlin is good enough, great enough, elite enough that she is going to be able to make it happen no matter who's on the floor. And her range is going to be her range. Right. That's going to consistently be a thing that defenses struggle to stop. I think the challenge will sort of be, you know, getting so much pressure off of Caitlin and giving her a little bit more space to do the things that she needs to do. But otherwise, I think we're going to see the huge performances. We're going to see, you know, half court, threes, logo, threes. That is how Caitlin plays. She's very fearless. So we will see all of that. I think the interesting thing will be how teams defend them, how teams defend Caitlyn and how the players around Caitlyn step up in order to make this, you know, more of a team in some ways. I was very aware the other players on Iowa are very aware that everyone only knows Caitlin in a sense. And so I think there is sort of a push to make sure that the scoring load is maybe not quite as lopsided as it was last year at times.
- [19:01]
Angela
Yeah, that. I mean, those types of things affect team chemistry. Those things affect how far you go in the NCAA Tournament is if you can't. If you can't find a way to make your team more than just Caitlin Clark, the game plan against you becomes incredibly easy. Right. When you think about the scout, it's basically Clayton Clark's face on the first page and then there's nothing else. I think there's a level of pride that the other teammates of Iowa definitely will have, and they want to make sure that they know that their team is deeper than just Caitlin Clark. Do you think that the last game of the season for Iowa exposed how to stop Iowa? Did you think LSU gave A roadmap to kind of stop her.
- [19:42]
Camila Cardoso
It's interesting you say that. You know, kind of what we were just talking about. I think LSU's roadmap was actually less about stopping Caitlin and more about stopping Monica. I think they dove into the stats and they really looked at it. Caitlin scored more in losses for them than in wins. Like, just think about that for a second. And losses, she scored more than in wins. But the big difference there was Monica. In wins, she scored more, and in losses, she scored less. And so I think they really kind of focused on slowing Monica. And so, in a way, I do think that that game gave teams a roadmap just in terms of limiting her opportunity as a passer, as a facilitator, as a creator. In some ways, if you put her on an is, obviously she's going to have the huge moments, but I think she was at her best, really, when she was playing in tandem with Monica. And they sort of had this ESP like connection that was developed and sort of massaged over three years of playing together. It's going to be different this year. What that looks like, I don't know. But also, knowing the kind of competitor and preparer that Caitlin is, I'm sure she's sort of playing chess while others are playing checkers in a way where she knows sort of how she's going to be defended. And so she's already sort of counterattacking, attacking or planning right to counter attack, whatever she's going to see. So I think it'll be fascinating. Iowa is not going to go undefeated. I don't know if any team is going to go undefeated this year, but I think it'll be fascinating to sort of see what teams do to slow down Caitlin Clark in terms of her productivity. But will the Caitlin Clark show continue? Absolutely.
- [21:15]
Angela
Like, absolutely.
- [21:16]
Camila Cardoso
You know, those threes are going to reign no matter what.
- [21:18]
Angela
I'm excited to see it. I mean, she. Elite. You said the word before. Absolutely elite. And yes, her teammates are gonna have to make it so that she is not the focal point of a defense, because it makes sense. Especially we just saw the WNBA playoffs go on, and I think about Alyssa Thomas in Connecticut. The focus was, let her do what she does, shut down everyone around her and make it hard for her to pass to them, et cetera. It makes sense as a plan. And Kim Mulkey is an incredibly smart coach, so that made sense as to why she probably went that route. So let's go a little bit north here, northeast to a team whose streak in the NCAA tournament ended last year. They had been to the NCAA tournament pretty much. Or actually 14 consecutive final four appearances ended last March. This is UConn that we're talking about. And injuries were their biggest issue. So looking at their star guards, you've got a. She had a foot issue that kept her out for 11 games as a freshman, and then she had some knee injuries that sidelined her 22 games last season. Then Paige Becker's national player of the year as a freshman this year, preseason All American, missed all of last season, and she also had a lot of misses from the previous season as well with knee injuries. These two guards have played 15 games together. 15. I'm like. I'm, like, scarily excited for what they can finally do being on the court this year. The hype videos have just gotten everyone across the country really excited. Is this the year that these last two years of injury and adversity pay off?
- [23:03]
Camila Cardoso
Well, yeah. And even past AZ and Paige, you look at Caroline Ducharme missed so much time. Nica Mule missed a game. Like, this is a group that. I think the only player to play every game in the last two seasons is Aaliyah Edwards on the entire roster.
- [23:19]
Angela
Yeah.
- [23:20]
Camila Cardoso
And so this is a team that's faced a lot of adversity in terms of health and injury. And, you know, as a writer, you're sort of looking at teams, obviously, who they are, what they can do, but also from a storyline standpoint. And, you know, this would be like the sports documentary Cinderella Story, Right. Fighting through these two years of adversity, of injuries, of all of this heartbreak at one of the most storied, if not the most storied, women's basketball program ever to sort of do it in the season, which might be Paige's last year. And so if Paige. If the Paige and AZ show, which as much as we've talked about the Caitlin show being very exciting in Iowa, I think the Paige and AZ show potential in stores is just kind of like the buildup. We waited three years for this. Is it finally going to happen this year? That would be riveting. It's just sort of that. That storyline getting there. Can they make it happen? Can they stay healthy? Paige had a bit of a thumb injury preseason this year, so it's sort of like. I'm sure everyone in Connecticut is sort of like, okay, can we just wrap everyone in bubble wrap and just like, get to the Final Four?
- [24:31]
Angela
Right.
- [24:32]
Camila Cardoso
But this. This team. I was in Connecticut a few weeks ago. I got to watch them practice, be around the team, they're confident, and I think they see the last two years as sort of preparing them mentally for this season, knowing that this could be kind of the last year that a lot of these players play together and sort of this legacy that they carry. I mean, you're in that gym, and it's like there's chairs from every final four that UConn has ever been to. There are all of the All Americans and National players of the Year on the wall. You have the national championship banners on another wall. Like, every direction you look in that gym at UConn, there's just greatness everywhere. And I think this team knows they know what their potential is. I think they have to understand their potential as a national championship. The question is, can they sort of draw together and use the last two seasons to really push them toward, you know, fulfilling that?
- [25:25]
Angela
I appreciate you giving that visual, because it's very rare that people get to be in that gym. We've been able to see decades of excellence come out of UConn, right? But to be able to be in that gym and see what it is that they surround themselves in around every single time they go to practice, when they get recruited, when they come and put UConn on their chest, that is what they're playing for. And to think that Paige has pretty much not really had the opportunity to play that out. You know, thinking about the heartbreaking moments of her crying in the locker room and having to face the fact that, yeah, she wants to play. She wants to be a walking bucket. That's who she is. And not being, you know, not having that. I know there's a chip on your shoulder a little bit about that and wanting to prove something, especially in this time. You mentioned there's one player that was able to play in all games, Aaliyah Edwards. I really, really like this player. I love the fact that people were saying, like, let's get a team to Canada. Right? That's where she's from. And she's really, really showing up. Potential All American. She is a senior. She was named Big East Most improved player last year, most outstanding player in the conference tournament. I mean. I mean, she's really shown up. What do you make of her, her gains as a player these past two years?
- [26:40]
Camila Cardoso
Yeah, and I had a chance to sit down with Aaliyah when I was in Connecticut, and one of the things we talked about a lot was her experience with the Canadian national team going to the Olympics, being the youngest player on that team, and just sort of learning from those older players. I think that can be such a really fantastic experience for a young player because, you know, a lot of players and especially in the UConn program, right, you learn how to act like a pro and then you're suddenly teammates with pros and you're seeing how they prepare, how they prehab, how they rehab, how they're taking care of their bodies and their minds and how they're eating. And I think it's, it's just different right when you're around women who are in their 20s and 30s and this is their job and you're a student and you're getting to watch that up close. And she just talked about how impactful that was for her, obviously to wear her national team jersey in that sort of an Olympic environment. It's a huge honor. But also just the amount that she learned being around those players and sort of how they go about their business. And I think we're going to really see a very mature. She's always level headed, she's very steady. Like I said, she's been that player for them the last two seasons who's been there and she's not rattled by anything. But I think this year, as everyone comes back, she's going to continue to sort of be that steady force that helps lead this team specifically in the paint. And as you look at a group that does from an X's and O's perspective, have a lot of this backcourt talent, this perimeter talent, she's going to really anchor the paint for them in an exciting way.
- [28:08]
Angela
I feel like she's, I think she's underrated. I think that her, her impact has been understated because of the attention of their backcourt. And I, I'm curious to see how having Paige and AZ back will amplify her, will be able to put a spotlight on her so people can really see what she's capable of doing. But, but I think with eyes being turned away from UConn because, you know, Paige wasn't playing or because Az and Paige weren't playing, people haven't really gotten a chance to really see what she's capable of unless you played in the big east with them. And so I'm very excited for her to step up and not even step up, but just to be shown on a bigger scale this season. So now let's talk about the West. I want to go over to the west because it's fascinating. We're seeing this right now even in college football. Last year of the PAC 12 and all of these teams are just Killing it. Entertaining. I mean, you talk about it as a writer, all these storylines, but these teams are performing incredibly well in the last year of the PAC 12. And when you think about the amount of teams in the. In the PAC 12 that have title contention potential, Right? And then you also think about the amount of great transfers that the PAC 12 just recently got, and new talent. Juju Watkins is the talk of, you know, the incoming freshman in the ncaa, and she's in usc. And I just. I'm thinking about the transfers. Oh, by the way, I completely forgot to say this earlier. If you have not gone on the athletic and checked out transfer T by Chantel and Sabrina, Sabrina Merchant, our other women's basketball writer, you're missing out. You gotta go. I literally, this morning, I worked out. I went in the sauna, and I was just going through it, and I, like, got excited. I felt like I was a coach. It's such a beautifully laid out breakdown of all of the top transfers. And again, not just looking at transfers for just, oh, this person averaged 30 points a game, or this person. And that's why they should be the most important transfer. No, it's actually not as intuitive or it's counterintuitive to what you would imagine. It's about who's going to make such an impact that would change the trajectory of their team. And I love the way that you guys broke this down. And I would say that if you look across the, you know, the. Some of the names that you mentioned, particularly in that Tier two level of making a team go potentially from, you know, being middle of the road to title contenders in their. Their conference, the PAC 12 got the most, I would say, out of. In that. In that realm. When you look at the Pac 12 and you're looking at the competition in their last year, anything stand out to you? Any particular. Any particular gains as a team, growth as a team, or any particular players that make you go, ooh, I'll be paying attention a little bit more to the Pac 12 this year.
- [31:11]
Camila Cardoso
Well, Zena, I don't want to, like, gloss over the fact that you said you were looking at transfer tiers in the sauna. This feels like an elite level of preparation that I feel like our listeners should have a moment of appreciation for that, even in your time of relaxation. And somehow in a room that's probably like, 150, 160.
- [31:31]
Angela
Yeah, no, it gets 150.
- [31:33]
Camila Cardoso
And you're. You're prepping for our podcast. So I just want to, you know, take this moment to give you Your flowers. In terms of preparation, of course, our show, we can get back to the transfers though. I just thought that our listeners deserve to know what you do for them. So I think everyone can say thank you to Zena.
- [31:51]
Angela
It was worth it. It was so good. I really, I'm excited to keep checking. Yeah, it's fine, it's fine. I've done it long enough. It's like gotten used to it. But I'm telling you guys, if you don't know, because this is the thing that I was talking about when you start, a lot of people don't realize what's going on with the transfer portal. And also so for me, I pay attention to who transferred out of Yale. We had a girl went down to Duke. Right. Like I pay attention to my school. Right. But very few times are you seeing these middle tier NCAA players get to go to the big time. Right. And seeing players go from Belmont to Indiana or go from Michigan to Colorado. Like these type of transfers were not the norm when I played. And so it's really cool to be able to see what changes were made, why players are changing, what they can add, what might be questionable and what to look out for as you're watching these games this season.
- [32:47]
Camila Cardoso
Yeah, I think if we're, if we're talking specifically about the West coast and the PAC12 rip, then I think probably Lauren Betts, she's, she's a top tier transfer for sure and she was an in conference transfer, which I also think is really interesting because then you said ucla, right. You bring this level of understanding of the conference. There's not an adjustment like you just mentioned Michigan to Colorado. Maddie Nolan, you know, she hasn't played most PAC12 opponents. Lauren Betts has. So she knows exactly what she's getting into. She sort of has seen she's game planned for all of these teams. And so there's sort of an easier, or I shouldn't say easier, a less difficult level to slip into a team. I'm curious to see how Corey Close plays with her. But I think this UCLA team, this UCLA team is particularly, is really interesting because they were one of the youngest teams in the NCAA tournament last year, if not the youngest team in the NCAA tournament. Tons of freshmen everywhere, freshmen everywhere you look. And now they're going to be older, more mature, more experienced sophomores. And Corey had talked about this last year that, you know, you have this, these freshmen who, it's the first time they're doing everything. It's their first selection Sunday, it's their first time to the tournament. It's their first PAC12 tournament. Ironically, this will now be their last PAC12 tournament because there won't be any more. But, you know, once you've done it before, it just becomes a little less intimidating. I'm sure it was the same feeling for you. And so as a player. But I think the Lauren Betts fit will be interesting. But there's no denying that having someone who's6'six6'seven on either end of the floor, sort of what she provides in terms of rebounding, in terms of just sort of shot blocking, but also just shot and pass adjusting what she'll do for that team, and just the balance, right? And so teams will have to, again, like lsu, pick your poison. Like, are you going to concentrate on stopping her in the paint or are you going to float out a bit to the Charisma Osbournes and Kiki Rices of the world and try to stop them? And I think just how the balance is going to fit for this team. They're still a young team. It's a lot of sophomores now, but I think they're going to be mature and exciting, experienced sophomores, sophomores. And so they're a very exciting team for me out West. I think in again, as a sports writer, you think about the storylines that might exist and in, you know, the year before Stanford moves to the acc, you sort of think like, oh, my gosh, will Tara Vandiver be able to sort of with the Stanford team that has a shorter bench than she's had in a long time, that had a lot of transfers leave, will they be able to pull a rabbit out of a hat? And when in her last year, the winningest coach in women's college basketball, will she be able to pull it off with this team? Everything that she's done in the PAC 10 and the PAC 12, you know, will she be able to sort of in this last year, a conference that, you know, is Tara in so many ways leave her mark in this last year? So I'm. I'm really interested in this conference. And I think we should mention too, you know, the PAC 12 in the early 2000s, they were really a conference that decided consciously to start scheduling harder out of conference games. Mike Nabors, who's now at Arkansas, when he was the head coach at Washington, I've heard stories of, they had these meetings and he was saying, you guys, we need to schedule harder out of conference opponents so that we can be taken more seriously for all of our NCAA tournament seedings and then you look and it's Washington, Cal, Stanford, Oregon, Oregon State, sort of in that 10 year run, all make final four runs. And so I think this is a conference that really took women's basketball seriously. And it's a conference that really wanted to elevate the game not just in their conference, but elevate the game as a whole. And so it's disappointing that this conference will no longer exist for a lot of reasons. But I think that reason in particular we really should talk about because you look across the country at schools, lsu that might not be scheduling out of conference games like that and the Pac 12s, especially starting in 2010, 2011, they really started doing more to schedule those high quality, high profile, non conference opponents to prepare themselves.
- [37:02]
Angela
You talk about the elevation of the game that Pac12 provided. The teams that come to mind are Utah, right. Or Arizona. And you look at what the performances that they've had recently in the, in the NCAA tournament. And just as elevation in the conference, that is a very or is. Yes, they still are in existence this year. So we're going to say it, that is a very difficult conference to play through. And it is sad. It is sad. There's a lot of history that's going alongside with that that you know, being able having Stanford go to the acc. I'm very, as a person from North Carolina, very curious how that's all going to work out. We will have Nicole Auerbach join our show at some point to talk through this conference realignment. But I want to make the other last point on the Lauren Betts conversation because I think she is a perfect example of what you mentioned earlier about coaches having to re recruit in a normal in years before this transfer portal situation. Aloran Betts was who you counted on when Cameron Brink goes to the WN NBA, right? You just kind of count that you're going to have that person. And yes, maybe you're not utilizing them because you don't need to utilize them because you got Cam Brink blocking shots all over the place doing her thing. But you're like when she leaves, we've developed this player behind her this whole time. We're good to go. And now she's gone. And it really is a testament to you can't count on your bench players as much anymore to just always be there for you. You've got to find a way for them to be a part of the mix, to be a part of the story, to be a part of your scheme or else they'll leave and find Somewhere else where they can become the focal point. So Lauren Beth also interests me a lot to see, so I'm excited for that too. And now we've covered both coasts. We've covered in the middle. Let's go overseas. Which is exactly what Notre Dame and South Carolina are literally preparing to do right now. I think they might have actually taken the flight already. They will be playing in Paris on November 6th. And to launch off the 2023, 2024 official regular season of NCAA basketball. It will be the first time an NCAA regular season basketball game has played, been played on a Parisian soil. I feel really, really tied to this. I don't know if you know, Chantel, I was born in Paris, so yeah, so I, yeah, so I, you know, France, when I was growing up, France had basketball, but it was definitely not focal, it was not focused on. It definitely became more of a thing later on in life. And I know that France adores women's basketball. They've been pretty good. I think they got bronze at Tokyo Olympics. Like they've, they've done pretty well in the, in the, I was gonna say a French word in the, in the birth of their team. But I'm really excited for the fans to be able to see this out there in France and also just for women's basketball in general. Like you talked, you actually wrote about this back in April when this was first announced. Just about how exciting this is and how big of a deal this is. These teams, they've been declared already preseason top 10. They, even though South Carolina had, they lost three players to the draft, they still have really good players. SEC all freshman guard, Raven Johnson, they've got the six women of the year, Camila Cardoso. And they've got a big time class of 20, 23 freshmen coming in. There's a lot there for South Carolina. And then on top of it, of course Notre Dame, she's got some strong players coming back. Olivia Miles, we don't know. I'm not sure what the injury situation right. Tbd, we're not sure where that's going to stand. But that is a very, a big name on that roster as well as Sonia Citron and then Maddie west, belt six, three forward, big, big size. Like she is a sizable, sizable front court presence for Notre Dame. It had a big impact as well for them. And so I'm just, I'm excited for these kind of star power type of teams to go up on a star level stage in Paris.
- [41:16]
Camila Cardoso
I feel like we should also do some like French lessons. If you Speak. Can we learn some, like, French?
- [41:21]
Angela
Well, I'll tell you what I was gonna say. And it's. I think it's a word that's translated to French, I mean, in English too. But it's like, really, it's kind of like hoity toity if you use it. But the nessance or the naissance is the birth of, you know, and so just the birth of women's basketball in France. So naissance. There you go, everyone. You've learned a new word and then, you know, you could just say things with accents and then you're speaking French. Le baskette. Right. Like there's a basket, that's a basket, that's a bucket. But if the time comes when we talk about that game, because I know we're gonna talk about on this podcast, I'll drop some other words if I hear them. But yeah, I'm pumped. Perfect. To hear the announcers scream out whatever they scream out in French as they cover this game.
- [42:04]
Camila Cardoso
I'm very excited for it too. No, it's. I think just like you started the podcast by saying April ended on such a high note for the women's college game. 10 million people watching, you know, it peaked at 30. What? Yeah. 10 million peaked at 13 million. I thought for a second I said 10,000. No, way more than that. 10 million watched peaked at 13 million. There's so many interesting off season storylines this season. More this off season more than other off seasons. You know, I've just noticed people, whether it's because of, you know, how much the WNBA has grown over this off season especially. It just, I can feel more attention, like friends of mine who don't really care about women's basketball, don't really care about sports. They know teams, they know people, they know players, they know coaches. In a way, they're saying, oh, you know, I feel like people are talking about women's basketball a lot. And so it's just perfect that this game is starting the season because it feels like two great teams, two top 10 teams starting the season in Paris, you know, can it, it's huge. Can it get any bigger than that? And so having these two programs play one another, and like you said, the amount of talent on both sides is tremendous. I'm especially excited to see Camila Cardoso. I think she has a chance to just be such a difference maker in the game, not just at South Carolina, I think moving forward her entire career. She was huge for Brazil at the Americup this summer. Just her skill set, her all around Game, really impressive. Malaysia full. Wiley, who you mentioned, is just sort of this. I called her a Swiss army knife when I was talking about incoming freshmen. She can do anything on the court. She can dunk, she can hit threes like she is your Swiss army knife. If you're looking for one in women's college hoops, incredible player. And then you look on the Notre Dame side. I think Hannah Hidalgo is a freshman who is going to be really exciting to watch. She's smaller, five, six, but I was at Notre Dame recently, had a chance to talk to her and was asking her about, you know, being a smaller point guard, especially if Olivia Miles is not able to go. How has she sort of prepared herself for this moment? And she has three older brothers, one of whom is 6 4, that she grew up playing one on one against. And so she said she has learned to play every kind of player one on one. She knows how to use her height to her advantage, how to play the angles in different ways, because she has spent her whole life playing her big brothers who are all different sizes, different heights, and so she knows how to get it done in that way. And Sonia Citron, who you mentioned, I was. I was so impressed with her while I was in South Bend. I think she. There's a lot of really good players in the ACC this year. I think she has a chance to be ACC player of the year. She was that good. She. She looked fantastic while I was there. And so you have all of these different storylines, two great conferences, the acc, which is obviously going to grow significantly, SEC as well next year. But, you know, these two conferences coming up against one another, Neil Ivey and Don Staley, two great coaches, historic programs, it's just going to be a great way to start the season. I think whether or not you're a fan of one of these two programs, games you're going to want to watch because it's. It's a historic event with great players, great coaching. You know, they're going to come in with great game plans. It's going to be a good basketball game. I don't think Olivia Miles will be ready to go, but in terms of just how they're going to attack one another, they're going to be ready for anything. If Olivia Miles goes, like, Don Staley is going to be ready for that. Like, don't think that she doesn't have a game plan in case Olivia Miles, like, suits up and has, like, ready to go and is going to try to drive, drop 60 on them. Like everyone's going to be ready for anything. And I think it'll just be a wonderful way to start the season.
- [45:55]
Angela
Do you think that we're going to see more of these kind of global games for the ncaa?
- [45:59]
Camila Cardoso
I think so. We're seeing them on the football side. You know, Notre Dame football went to Ireland this year. I think the game is growing globally. And even though the WNBA did not expand in its most recent expansion to Canada, like the women's game in basketball has proven that it's a global game. And the markets, in terms of the Olympic teams that are pouring more money into these programs to make sure that they medal at the Olympics. Canada, Australia, France, the U.S. i think it, you know, we're going to see more of these games because women's basketball is growing globally. And when that happens, fans in other countries, they can't come to the US to watch these games every year. And so I think naturally the game is going to travel because that's just how these things happen. I remember in Sue Bird's final year, I wrote a story about a bunch of the fans who had come to see her play. And it was like people from Scotland and Brazil and South Korea and all over the world had become Sue Bird fans. And I think how much more the game would have grown if at some point the Seattle Storm had played the Mercury in Australia or in Spain sort of a thing to grow the game in that way. And I think the college game is trying to think of it in that way. And I have to think that this is going to continue to happen.
- [47:22]
Angela
I hope they do take a lesson out of these other leagues. I think, particularly like the NBA is probably NFL and NBA have taken the biggest steps to try and commercialize their product across globes, across continents. And this is a great, great, great league to be able to take overseas. These young women are so active on social media, so they have access to these audiences across country lines, borders and such. And so there is that potential for creating a connection that now you can give the product as well, and they can connect with them in person versus just digitally. So I. I love it. I love the trajectory. I love the direction that this is going. And of course, I'm particularly happy that they chose Paris for the very first one. It's a great setup as well for the Olympics, obviously, next year, just getting that city ready and prepared for all of the amazing international competition that's coming its way. But I want to just say thank you, Chantel, because this is a great preseason preview with NCAA kicking off next week. There's going to be. I feel like the talent pool is just like this incessant faucet. Right. Even just when you mentioned Malaysia, full Wiley, like, can dunk and shoot the three, you think, will it get better than Maya Moore? Yeah, it's gotten a lot better since even. Right. Like, of course she's like the goat. But think about all of the talent that has come from that since her time and think about all the talent that continues to come into the NCAA and then continues on to the wnba. This is a product that is just getting better and better and better and better. And now we're also getting to see the personalities of these women, these young women and their coaches and their relationships. And thanks to you, we're learning these storylines behind this. And we just get more and more entrenched within this world of women's basketball. And. And I'm pumped. I can't wait to keep having you back on to talk throughout the season. And again, gonna keep plugging this. Go look at transfer tears. It's fire. It's such a good layout, such a good concept. So before we go, I am gonna go off the script. So for today's off the script, I want to talk about the title game. And honestly, I'm disappointed. I'm a little disappointed. Espn, I'm real disappointed. We were just talking to Chantel Jennings and she mentioned the tournament last year averaged 10 million viewers, peaking at 13 million at 1 point. And it was just announced that the 2024 championship game will be on ABC for a second straight year, but it will still not be in primetime. In September, the media company ESPN announced that it would televise the entire women's basketball national invitation. Excuse me. The Women's Basketball Invitational Tournament, which is like the men's. The women's equivalent of the men's nit, which is great. Awesome. Love that expansion of the game. Love more visibility on the game, being able to provide new platforms for this tournament. Great. But here we have the most watched college basketball game for women's basketball of all time this April. Why would that not encourage ESPN to then move them to the primetime spot for this upcoming April? Clearly, there's viewership. Clearly there's interest. I'm a little frustrated by that decision. But again, like I said, there are steps being made by ESPN to expand the growth in the. The visibility of the game. So I can't be completely upset. They are. ESPN will be looking to renew their media rights deal for women's March Madness, and that's going to be up in 2025. I'm very curious. I think there's going to be some other bidders that will be at the table because they're, they're seeing the numbers and they're seeing the performance of this, of this sport. And I think they say the next round of negotiations could be as high as $112 million per year. Money, okay? This is money. And women's basketball is producing that. Women's basketball is not a charity as we've heard. It is clearly a product that is providing and producing generation, generating, excuse me, revenue, and it's generating interest and it's continuing to do that. And so hopefully ESPN will wake up if they do get those media grab or media rights again in 2025. Hopefully they'll see the value of putting that game in prime time. Anywho, that's my off the script for today. Thanks for joining us. Appreciate you all listening as always. Make sure to subscribe. We've got a lot of great NCAA coverage this season. We'll be talking about it all. We're gonna have Chantel back with us, Lindsey D'Argent, dark Angela back with us, Sabrina Merchant back with us. We're going to be talking about conference realignment. I mean, there's going to be tons. And then we're also having interviews. We're bringing in coaches, we're bringing in players where we can. So make sure to subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. But for now, I'm Zena Kada with the Athletic thanking you for listening and encouraging you to keep listening, keep learning, and keep loving the game, because that's the only way we're going to make it grow. All right, until next time.
- [52:59]
Chantel Jennings
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- [53:25]
Olivia Miles
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- [54:18]
Zena Keda
ACAST powers the world's best podcasts Here's a show that we recommend.
- [54:26]
Neil Ivey
Remember blowing into a video game cartridge.
- [54:29]
Zena Keda
Or taping songs off the radio?
- [54:31]
Neil Ivey
How about Saturday morning cartoons?
- [54:33]
Zena Keda
Hey, AOL chat rooms.
- [54:35]
Angela
Did we just age ourselves?
- [54:37]
Neil Ivey
Yep, we're Mike Fenoya and Charles McBee.
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Zena Keda
Two comedians getting nostalgic and asking that nagging question.
- [54:44]
Angela
Are we old?
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Neil Ivey
Relive the laughs, the cringes and the nostalgia.
- [54:48]
Angela
Are we old?
- [54:49]
Zena Keda
Podcast right here on acast. ACAST helps creators launch, grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere.
- [55:07]
Camila Cardoso
Acast.com.