← No Offseason: The Athletic Women's Basketball Show
No Offseason: The Athletic Women's Basketball Show
What’s in store for the Golden State Valkyries? + Future of WNBA Expansion
00:46:51
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- [00:01]
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- [01:26]
Zena Keda
There to watch them.
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- [04:49]
Zena Keda
Hello everyone and welcome to no off season presented by Mass Mutual. I'm Zena Keda.
- [04:54]
Sabrina Merchant
I'm Sabrina Merchant.
- [04:56]
Ben Pickman
And I'm Ben Pickman.
- [04:57]
Zena Keda
And today on the show we get to my corner of the wnba. It is our big Golden State Valkyries episode. We gotta talk about this. What might be the first look of this expansion team that is coming to the W? The newest addition. Who's going to make the roster, who is not and who is? What's next on the horizon for expansion in the league? But first we got some news we got to check in on. And it's not really news. It's just the league is happening, y'all. The league officially kicked off this weekend. Preseason games have started. I know, I know. We were watching. But were y'all watching? If not, don't worry. This is why we got the experts in the room. Sabrina and Ben, I know y'all were locked in. Talk to me a little bit about what y'all saw in some of these games this weekend. If you had a big takeaway, what would it be?
- [05:47]
Sabrina Merchant
So my main takeaway was Jackie Young looks awesome. I know she had a very injured, unrivaled season and, you know, an injured second half of the WNBA season when she told Holly Row during the playoffs that she'd been, you know, working through something basically since the gold medal game. And Jackie Young is a player who relies so heavily on her physicality, Right? The fact that she is just stronger than her opponents, and she uses that very, very well. So for her to not feel in control of her body, you can. You can sense that. And admittedly, first preseason game, a Dallas team that is returning three players from last year, that's a comfortable opponent to go up against if you are Jackie Young essentially at home at Notre Dame. But she looked fantastic. You know, she put up 28 points, nine assists, zero turnovers, 13 of 13 from the foul line just. Just looked incredible. And it's the. The kind of arc that I always expected from Jackie Young to like. She had that all WNBA season and then sort of had a downturn last year. So, you know, to see her back on track to be one of maybe the five best players in the WNBA was very cool.
- [06:47]
Zena Keda
Yeah, the nine assists, no turnovers, that's pretty good. Nice. That was real good.
- [06:52]
Sabrina Merchant
There was one pass she made in transition where the announcer credited to Chelsea Gray, she's like, oh, that just looks like a Chelsea Gray pass. And they look back at the highlight, and I was like, no, that's Jackie.
- [07:01]
Zena Keda
That was Jackie. That was Jackie. Yeah. No, it was really fun watching them in action. Also really liking some of their new additions. Aaliyah Nye. I'm excited. I mean, if you guys are worried about Kate Martin getting out of the building, you get some of that corner shooting out of the building, getting some crazy blocks. Aaliyah and I might be that Phil at 6 foot, but we'll see what happens with the front office of the Aces, but, yes, that's a really good one. Ben, what about you? What'd you see?
- [07:26]
Ben Pickman
Yeah, I mean, you mentioned the shooting of Aaliyah Nye of the Las Vegas Aces. I'll stick with another shooting theme, and that is the Chicago Skies offense on Friday night against the Brazilian national team, albeit again against the Brazilian national team, who are not at their best even considering what their best is, is. But Chicago, after attempting A league low 14.9 threes, per game. Last year, they took 12 threes in their first half of their preseason opener and finished the game with 29 three pointers. Yeah, they only made seven, so that's not exactly ideal. But their first year head coach Tyler Marsh, who, you know came from those Las Vegas aces, seemed pretty happy with Chicago's shot selection throughout. You know, almost 60% of their shots on the night were jumpers. They had 21 assists on 32 baskets. Courtney Vandersloot, I think she is due to really help out the bigs. And also I guess the wings of the Chicago sky team pushing pace in transition, kind of knifing through the lane. And we saw a little bit of taste of that in the first quarter. And we also saw Angel Reese kind of play a little bit more on the perimeter or towards the perimeter, trying to both create some space for her to kind of screen and dive, attack the rim just. And not have as crowded paints. So maybe it's a little bit a la like what Asia Wilson does in Las Vegas. And again, Marsh having some ties there, that makes sense. So a little bit different look from the sky and I'm just interested to see how it continues going forward.
- [08:44]
Zena Keda
Absolutely. If they can sustain the shooting. That is going to be a scary Chicago sky because that was where most of the production was in the paint. And that's where you found a little bit of lack. Lack is the word I will use when it comes to outside shooting for the Chicago sky. This is just a taste, guys, of what Ben and Sabrina notice over the course of the weekend. If you go to the Athletic, they've got a big article kind of breaking down games across the association that they saw things, they noticed. They talk about Dallas, they talk about the youth in Dallas, they talk about Cece, of course, because Brazil continued their tour of the wnba and trust me, I don't know if the WNBA players were the best house guests, but they, they showed them. Welcome to the W. For sure. Um, definitely go check out that, that article. And Ben, I heard that you had a little fun on Saturday with the reigning WNBA champs. Tell us a little bit more about your on court action with New York.
- [09:44]
Ben Pickman
Yeah, that is true. On Saturday, the New York Liberty hosted their Media Appreciation Day. That is what they called it. And a big part of that consisted of the coaching staff of the Liberty putting us media members through an on court workout. Xena. Um, so we spent about 45 minutes on court. Um, they had actually had us sign a 45 minute long contract which was on an honorary basis. It was very Clear. And it said the players employment during the time Burgess have covered by this contract included attendance, a fun attitude and active participation. Those were some of the requirements of the deal. Consisted of a ball handling station led by assistant coaches Andrew Wade, who kind of led that, and Zach O'Brien. There was a pick and roll station led by two other coaches. A shooting station of just spot up jumpers. Then we played a big game of knockout where media members and Liberty staff were competing against each other. That game was won by Sandy Brondello, the head coach of the New York Liberty.
- [10:43]
Sabrina Merchant
Feels unfair. Professional.
- [10:46]
Zena Keda
It feels a little rigged. I mean, that's. That jumper still looks smooth from the content that I saw. Sabrina, I heard that you might have received a text message about this.
- [10:55]
Sabrina Merchant
So a member of the New York's basketball staff did send me a message saying, can confirm Ben Pickman has a little wiggle to his pick and roll game.
- [11:03]
Ben Pickman
Yeah.
- [11:03]
Zena Keda
Oh, okay. Let me find out.
- [11:08]
Ben Pickman
I mean, Sabrina, I'd like to know.
- [11:09]
Zena Keda
You got a little movement.
- [11:11]
Ben Pickman
Can we clip that audio and just send it around so I can get the nil money that I'm owed from back in the day? Let's let the record be clear. I also did get out the Liberty pr, the head of pr and I also got a Liberty assistant coach out. Both of them in knockout. Um, I got two Liberty staffers out in knockout. So you can put that on the resume too.
- [11:33]
Zena Keda
We know you have some pickup games out in New York as well. You still active in this space, so. But I didn't know you had a little movement to the hips going around. Picks. Okay, all right. I like it. I like it. Well, we're gonna have to take that movement into this conversation with the Golden State Valkyries because there's a lot we don't know and we're gonna have to move and shake around it because the Golden State Valkyries have not even played a preseason game yet. So we don't have a taste of what they look like. But we're hearing things. We're hearing things. And I actually was at practice at the day that we're recording. I was at practice today, saw a little bit. But I am excited to dig into this team. This is the 13th team in the W. First expansion team in the league since 2008. That's crazy. Last team that was the Atlanta Dream back then. Now, I'll say this. In conversations with the team, they don't want to be talked about as the expansion team. They want to be called the new team because that's what they are right. Sometimes when you attribute expansion to just a team, it's thinking, oh, they're not going to be very good. They're not just an expansion team, they are a new team. So I'm going to try and just stick to that, especially when Toronto comes in the mix and Portland comes in the mix next year. But right now, this is the Valkyries time. So let's get a little background on this team. Ben, how did we get to this point? How did the Valks become the first expansion or new team in this new era?
- [12:58]
Ben Pickman
Yeah, I mean, so the Golden State Valkyries, as you mentioned, Xena, first expansion team since 2008. They were, I guess announced as a franchise at one point, an unnamed franchise back in October of 2023. Joe Lacob is the Warriors Co executive chairman and CEO and his partner Peter Guber. They are the again owned and operators of this WNBA franchise. And much like the Golden State warriors, the Valkyries are going to play their home games at Chase Center. Jaleika has a little bit of a personal history in women's basketball that he's made kind of clear with a league prior to the wnba. So he's long kind of been interested. And this is a market that I think the WNBA has long targeted because one, you both have stable ownership. You have a franchise in the warriors that has had a ton of success since Lake up and Goober bought the team in the mid 2010s. And we've seen, you know, an explosion in the valuation of that franchise. They've built a new arena. Those are all things that if you're the wnba, you're looking at and saying like this is a stable group that wants women's basketball to succeed in the market. And then you think about the Bay Area and what it is in terms of, you know, tech financial, just kind of the, the economic situation for businesses in the Bay Area and you know, you know this firsthand, living there like it's one of the top markets in the United States. And so being the economic hub that it is, it just made a ton of sense. So the Valkyries get named in October 2023, as I said, and you know, here we are in May 2025 and they are set to debut in just around 10 days.
- [14:24]
Zena Keda
Yeah, I think it's worth giving my perspective from on this note because yes, even though this team was named as a franchise, excuse me, not named, but announced as a franchise in 2023, they'd been working on this for years, folks. Even when I was a part of the Golden State warriors. On the partnership side, this was something that they had been thinking about. How do we bring a women's team to the league? We had been doing due diligence on what arena should they. Where should their practice facilities be? How can we ensure that the players feel like true athletes? So this is even before Phoenix announced their new facilities. This is before all of these franchises across the league had said they wanted to elevate the athlete experience. The warriors were already thinking about this from the perspective of a women's basketball team, and this makes sense. Like, Ben, you mentioned Joe Lacob's previous experience with women's basketball in the American Basketball League. Like, there was a whole team here, the San Jose Lasers. He was a primary investor and founder in the American Basketball League and had also, you know, invested significant dollars into the San Jose Lasers. So this is really like a dream deferred a little bit for Joe Lacob to be able to get this team back in the Bay Area. And as you mentioned, the history is there, the roots are there. Stanford basketball, Cal basketball. Like, this is rich, rich history for women's basketball. So it makes a lot of sense to have a team here. The W knew what they were doing with that aspect. As they continue to think about all of these markets that they're expanding into, where can we find roots where people are truly already excited about women's basketball and then take hold? So let's talk a little bit about the expansion draft, because that was something that if you hadn't been paying attention in 2008, which a lot of people weren't, which is fine. You don't know what that looks like. And every year there are no rules in the CBA about what this expansion draft looks like. You can literally make it up as you go, like, how do we want to do this? Who do we want to protect? Do people get protections? All the above. So the expansion draft happens. Sabrina, tell us a little bit about the expansion draft and then also the role that the Valkyries played in the regular draft. That happened in April of this year.
- [16:31]
Sabrina Merchant
Yeah. So we actually did an episode about the expansion draft back in December, if you want to go back and listen to that. We talked about pre draft and post draft with Natalie Nakase and Ohmanian, So a lot of good audio there, in case you missed it the first time around. But essentially, all of the 12 existing WNBA teams got to protect six of their players, whether that's players on their current rosters or players they had rights to internationally, domestically. And then Golden State could pick from the non protected players during the expansion draft. And they chose to select players from every team except for Seattle during that process. And that included a mix of players who were WNBA veterans like Kayla Thornton and players who had never set foot in the league like Carla Layte and then, you know, rookies like Kate Martin. And they got 11 players out of that expansion draft and that was sort of the basis of their roster heading into free agency. Free agency. They were kind of light on the American side of things. They did sign Tiffany Hayes from the Las Vegas Aces, but mostly stuck to players who have spent their time playing in Europe, including the likes of Chloe Bibby or Janelle Salon from France. And then they go into the WNBA college draft, so to speak, even though it's not technically the college draft because international players can be there. But it's the post college draft and they had the fifth pick, which was after all of the lottery teams. And they took Uste Yochite from Lithuania. And that is how they formed essentially their training camp roster for their inaugural season.
- [17:52]
Zena Keda
I love it. And now you're starting to see all of these elements come together because it's training camp time and that is going to be probably the most difficult job of all the teams in the league because none of these players have played together before. And also none of these players have played for these coaches staff. This coaching staff has never coached together before. Like it's a training camp not only for the players but also the coaches. And so now you're starting to see, you know, movements are starting to happen. But of course, at the time we're recording this today, at the time that it's coming out, is going to be the Valkyries first preseason game. This is going to be the first taste of what they're going to look like. Ben, I mean, I was at training camp, I'll tell you what I've heard. But what have you heard from the outside about this team so far?
- [18:40]
Ben Pickman
I mean, one of the things that has struck me or that I've observed is obviously you're trying to figure out how you want to play and who is going to play what roles. And it is all kind of a creation from scratch. And so when you think about their expansion draft, right. Natalie Dicase, their head coach, said they wanted ultra competitive players, high character players, and they actually intentionally used the word athletes. If you listen to both Natalie and their GM Mohammedian, who Sabrina mentioned, like Ohama is very intentional. She doesn't say players, she says athletes. When she refers to the members of the Golden State Valkyries roster. So, you know, I think they want to play physical defense. It seems like they have spent a lot of attention, a lot of time and attention during training camp on the defensive end. Offensively, I think they're going to shoot a lot of threes, they're going to play at a fast pace. Those are some of the phrases that we have heard. They're going to play with a lot of fight. That is another phrase we have heard. But it's really going to be a work in progress because a lot of the players on this team are really going to be stepping into or forced to step into roles that they have not traditionally had in either their WNBA teams or their international rosters. And so that is really one of the big questions here. As Sabrina mentioned, they didn't sign any super high profile free agents despite some meetings that they did take with some of them. And so this is a team that, you know, I don't think there are a lot of expectations or high expectations for, you know, them going on a deep postseason run, say in year one of this franchise.
- [20:02]
Zena Keda
For sure. That was absolutely the themes that you hit on as far as like playing with pace. Coach Nikase was very adamant about, you know, it's not playing fast, it's playing with pace and wanting to make sure that her team ultimately is conditioned. And I think that that's going to be the advantage that you can have is if you're playing faster than everyone else and playing at a higher pace that will allow you to not have to play against set defenses and be able to get out and score quickly. But also defense was huge that I've heard about. Rebounding was a major aspect and then limiting the turnovers. Sabrina, I wanna ask you about what you've heard about the building of the team because what I love is that their GI Mohammed Niannan has been incredibly vocal about wanting good people, not just in the organization that she created from her front office staff, not just in the coaching staff, but particularly when it comes to these players. She talked about them being some of the easiest players you could talk to and also not wanting to take advantage of that, but knowing that these people are willing and ready to start something from the ground up. And so it helps that there are people that you can easily, you know, communicate with, knowing that that's not always the case. So from your perspective, Sabrina, strategy on building a team from the ground up and also being able to have the pick from other teams, like how do you think that the Valkyries went about that? And in Your opinion? How well do they do?
- [21:28]
Sabrina Merchant
Yeah, it's so interesting how you think about building a team from scratch, because I'm certain that the way we see Toronto and Portland do it next year is going to look entirely different from what Golden State did. And like Ben said earlier, you know, Coach Nakase said that they prioritized ultra competitiveness and high character. Right. Which you've mentioned in terms of the kind of people that they wanted. And I think that resulted in players who had a bit of a longer track record in the W. You know, there's a lot of veterans on this league who have, you know, really high references from people around the league. Like, you look at Akayla Thornton, beloved in New York, beloved in Dallas, like, very quality that they were very sad to lose in the expansion draft. You look at Tiffany Hayes, like, how highly people spoke of her in Las Vegas, in Atlanta, just what she's meant to the three franchises that she's played for prior to Golden State. Even someone like Kate Martin, who they've just, like, glowed about in Vegas. And again, the fact that Annalise comes from Vegas, that they have multiple Vegas players should come as a little surprise. Even Ileana Ripert, another player taking the expansion draft, played in Vegas with Natalie Nicase. So I think, you know, you mentioned that these players don't have any familiarity playing with each other necessarily in this specific context, but they do have little tentacles attached to one another like in previous lives. Right. Like Hayes, Kate Martin, Eli Rupert, who I don't think will be reporting until after Europasket this season, all played for Natalie Nakase in Las Vegas. You look at their assistant gm, Vani Eternovic, who has experience with the London Lions, like Temmie Fagbenle played with the London Lions, Right. So there's everybody knows everybody in women's basketball, and they have, like, reasons to believe that these things are going to fit together. But I think it's interesting that they chose a lot of complementary players who people are going to want to play with. They haven't found, like, the star that wants to play with all of them yet, but they have all of these complimentary players who they know are going to come to work every day, set a good culture, show up for their younger teammates, like, express what it means to be a pro at this level. Even if Golden State doesn't really know what their team specifically looks like, they have a bunch of pros who know how to play in the wnba. And I think that's important when you have a team where, again, there's just there's no history. Right. So you have to make sure that like you set a standard of work and a work ethic and at least a destination that people want to come to because they had nothing to look forward to right when they were signing in 2025. So this is a lot about just setting the blueprint for what you want to be in future years.
- [23:38]
Zena Keda
Yeah, if I could have gotten a dollar for the amount of times I heard work hard, I might not need to do this podcast anymore today. No, that was like the theme, working hard, working hard, I'm a hard worker. And all the, the post, the post practice conversations, it was about working hard. And one of the things that the players are really looking to continue to build, that they've already start to build in their training camp, according to Mobilings, at least, is the connectivity, understanding, personnel. Right. Everyone has heard kyp know your personnel, but that's usually about your opponent. This is about knowing your own personnel. How do you like, how do your bigs like to go off the pick and roll? How do you know your catch and shoot shooters? Where do they like to catch the ball to get the ball up? So it was very interesting to hear the ways in which all of these pieces are starting to come together. But you're right in that the theme and the thread that's kind of connecting together are these veterans, Mo Billings, Tip Hayes, even Letitia Amahir. Like, these are people that have experienced things at other teams and now they're bringing something in that experience to this program. Coach dicase was very big on keeping things open minded. She didn't want people to come into the space and think, huh, I did it like this in New York, I did it like this in Atlanta, I did it like this in Las Vegas. She wanted something that was brand new and I thought that was really cool to see. So now we gotta talk big picture because you alluded to it, Sabrina. This year is about setting a foundation, having fun. Lots of talk about Joy as well today. What does success look like for this team, Ben, in their first season?
- [25:16]
Ben Pickman
I'm going to steal the phrase that actually Jonathan Kolb, the New York Liberty gm, used over the weekend and I cite him as a specific example because Oheman Yenan, the GM of the Valkyries, used to be the assistant GM of the Liberty. So there is some connectivity there. And what Jonathan said, and I think it's put really well, is that this year's Valkyries team is trying to find out who is going to be on the first great Valkyries team, like it's about, it's not necessarily this year but it's about trying to see who's going to be a part of our long term plan and what kind of player is going to be a part of our long term plan. Whether that is, you know, a specific name or specific actually style of player. And so it kind of is a very much experimental year. And I think the expectation from talking to people around the league is that this Valkers team is going to be pretty competitive in games. You know, there are some questions about, you know, who do they have a 20 point score on the roster? Like how are they going to close games at crunch time, what is it going to look like, you know, some spaces where continuity makes a difference. But I do think from some of the things that you were saying to Zena, like they're going to compete and they might come up short in a bunch of games because they're just not as talented frankly yet as a bunch of other teams. But to me like it is about finding again who those next great players are. And you got to think there's two kind of looming, not loopholes but you know, things out there in the ether. I guess number one is that in the wnba, unlike in the NBA draft lottery odds are normally based on your two year cumulative record. Right. But the Valkyries, considering they're going to have just one year of history, presumably, you know, this year is going to be the end all be all in determining where they fare in the 2026 WNBA Draft Lottery. So call that a little bit of advantage potentially if they struggle. The other thing is that they have, they're going to have a ton of cap space next year. And so again if you find a player or two or three or more that will be part of this team going forward, I think that's a success. You maybe get a high draft pick heading into next year that's a success and you can, you know, market yourself to free agents, which they certainly can do. And, and we should say, you know, you were just there, you can speak to it. They have a great world class facility, renovated facility that is just for them. You can speak to some of the specs of it. Xena, their franchise is investing and so there's a lot to like even if they only win 12 games this year or something like that.
- [27:41]
Zena Keda
Yeah, yeah. The conversation that was had, I technically did not, it was not had to me but I overheard it player talking to someone else.
- [27:48]
Ben Pickman
Those are the best conversations, you know, the best ones.
- [27:49]
Zena Keda
Right. But the statement Was, I am so happy. I don't have to ask for anything. I have everything here. Like, that's what this player was saying. And I was like, dang. Like, that's so dope. Particularly thinking about what some of these players that are on this team and in the league in general have had to experience that since they were first drafted. Right? For context as to why I'm having all of this Valkyrie's insight. I'm not just stalking this team, guys. I am actually going to be covering them for CBS in the Bay Area. And so I got the opportunity to go to open practice with the media today and get to see the Sephora Performance center. And it is gorgeous. The floor is gorgeous. I mean, I'm looking at that court, and I can only imagine how pretty the court is gonna be at Shea Center. The facility is stunning. Everything you can imagine in terms of, obviously, a beautiful locker room, et cetera, weight room, world class facility, jacuzzis, hot tubs and such, making sure they have a recovery center. I mean, but it's new and shiny and smells new, and everything is perfectly aligned with what the players are gonna need in terms of just coming to work and not having to ask for anything. And I think that that's just been a theme that you get from the Valkyries and from WNBA players across the league.
- [29:04]
Ben Pickman
Zena, it seems like you're already dreaming of when the Valkyries hold Media appreciation Day in, like, five years and you can put on your sneakers and get on those baskets.
- [29:12]
Zena Keda
I thought you were saying you were just dreaming of some new knees so I can go back out and play.
- [29:16]
Sabrina Merchant
Yeah, both.
- [29:17]
Zena Keda
Both. No, they. It looked so fun watching them today. They have a ton of fun at practice. They had a. It wasn't even a drill. I don't know what it was, but they play baseball today. At what point during practice. It was fun. It was a good, good time. And you can tell that that's what Coach Nikase really wants to establish is them having fun. So now let's have some fun. I'm gonna ask both of you, and I'm not gonna tell you what I saw today at practice, but I was.
- [29:42]
Sabrina Merchant
Gonna say, you have so much more intel than we do, Zena.
- [29:44]
Zena Keda
I know, but who do you think might be the starting five for this team?
- [29:48]
Sabrina Merchant
I'll go first. I kind of have, like, four players in mind. That would be Julie Van Lew, Tiffany Hayes, Mo Billings, and Temifag Ben Light, and then sort of a rotating cast of who I think based on any minute could be that fifth player. Absolutely. For now, let's say Kate Martin.
- [30:11]
Zena Keda
Okay. Okay. I like that. Ben, what about you?
- [30:15]
Ben Pickman
I like. Let's see. And I should have prepped this, admittedly, a little bit more. Kate Martin and Kayla Thornton, both starting. Let's go. Billings at the 5. I think they'll go small. I like Van Lou as a veteran point guard to open. And does starting Carla late make any sense? We'll say that's my five.
- [30:39]
Zena Keda
Okay.
- [30:39]
Ben Pickman
Yeah.
- [30:40]
Zena Keda
Okay. So I'll let you know that I saw combinations of both of what you're talking about out on the floor today. Okay. So that's. I actually don't know who the starting five are. We'll. We will all learn that tomorrow. But Carla late is exciting. She could be this team's playmaker. She's fun to watch. So get ready, folks. She is going to be very sprightly. I wanted to use that in the podcast and boom, it is dropped. Let's continue in talking about the future of expansion or the future of new teams in the WNBA because we know next year, 2026, we got two more teams joining the league, the Toronto Tempo and the yet to be named Portland basketball team. So 1. It's been a minute. I don't know what's going on. All I see is Toronto making really great, perfect social media responses to everything else that's going on in the wnba. But that's about the extent of what I know about these two teams and where they stand right now that their social team is killing it. But other than than that. Ben, Sabrina, fill me in. Where do things stand with these two teams?
- [31:54]
Sabrina Merchant
So I'll start with Toronto. They hired their first general manager, Monica Wright Rogers, at the end of last year, I want to say. Or was it the start of this year? I don't know. The months all sort of blend together. It was cold in Toronto when they announced her hiring.
- [32:05]
Zena Keda
Start of this year.
- [32:07]
Sabrina Merchant
Start this year. There you go. As I mentioned, they have their name, the Tempo. They've had all of their initial branding. Right. They have an operations staff of like 10 to 12 people. From what I've heard already on the basketball side, they have not yet hired a head coach, but that is incoming. And as you mentioned, their branding, social team just completely on point. Apparently they've gotten very good use out of Canadian celebrities, which I have to continually ask people about. But it's playing very well in the local market, from what I understand.
- [32:36]
Zena Keda
I love it. You got to get with the local fans. They know what's up. They know what's up. That's good. And also, I'll say, Toronto Tempo's grown on me. At first I was kind of like, I don't know. But now I like it. And I like their branding. I like the colors, I like the vibe. Toronto Tempo works. What about Portland?
- [32:53]
Sabrina Merchant
So Portland, the as yet unnamed Portland team, although in my head it's still the Portland Fire because that was a previous WNBA team, but technically not. The name at this juncture, does not yet have a general manager, does not yet have a name. They do have a president. Her name is Inky Sun. She used to work at the nbpa, actually. So a lot of deep relationships within the basketball community and they just broke ground on their combined practice facility with the Portland Thorns, who are the NWSL team in the area. So that is one of the unique ownership groups in the wnba, which is also owns an NWSL and a WNBA team at the same time. Still a lot of basketball hires to make. Obviously they have said that a general manager and team name will be coming within the next three to six months, which is a very wide window. But yeah, theoretically that has to happen before an expansion draft. So looking forward to it.
- [33:40]
Zena Keda
There you go. And I will say, looking at these three teams, the Valks, the Temple of Portland, it's been very different in terms of how they've rolled out their teams. The timelines, particularly the Valks have said that their ownership allowed them the full extended timeline to get their teams in order. But now you're looking at these other two teams. What are some of the biggest differences you've seen and how these rollouts and these hirings have happened?
- [34:01]
Ben Pickman
Yeah, I mean, Golden State kind of serves as our convenient reference point, I guess, just because of the nature of when they came in the process. Right. So if you think about a year ago at this time, the Golden State Valkyries had just basically announced their name and they just hired Oheman Yenan as their general manager. Both of those things happened, I believe, in May of 2024, so a full year before they come into existence. As you mentioned with Toronto, they've already named their general manager. So in theory, they were ahead of Golden State's pace in terms of naming their top basketball decision maker. They also named their name of the team and the colors and logos before Golden State did in their process. Portland, on the other hand, is slower, I guess, or later in the process, later in the game than what the Valkyries are doing. Right. They still have not named a general manager, top basketball decision maker. And we also don't know the name of the franchise. Right. So they are starting this season, at least publicly, without some of those kind of key decision makers, key players in place at the top. And Inky sun, as you mentioned, has just kind of gotten officially hired a month ago. So, again, these other teams, Golden State hired Jeff Smith, I think, well in advance of, you know, naming, making some of their key decisions. Teresa Resch is the team president of the Toronto club. She was again, hired well in advance as kind of the first employee of that group. So kind of three teams with very different approaches and very different timelines. And a lot of that is reflected of the ownership differences between each of these three teams. Right. You have Golden State, which is very much closely tied to the Golden State Warriors. Right. The NBA franchise in that market. You have the Toronto franchise, and they're owned by Kilmer Sports Ventures is the group. And that is kind of. Larry Tannenbaum is the majority partner, I guess, in that it's kind of his company. He is the guess figure who. I mean, they own the Toronto Raptors, but they are technically not like, affiliated with the Raptors. They just have a lot of the same ties and kind of, again, like, people involved, I guess. Theresa Resch actually came from the Raptors. And then you have the Portland group, which is Serena Sabrina mentioned, you know, has ties to the Portland Thorns of the nwsl. Their lead owners are the Bethal family. It's Lisa Bethal, Lisa Bethal Mirage and Alex Bethal. And their father, Raj, is an investor in the Sacramento King as their kind of alternate governor, kind of their number two owner in colloquial terms in that group. But they are independent of the NBA, especially compared to, say, the Golden State warriors and Valkyries tie. So three different groups, three different approaches, three different timelines. And it's just kind of interesting to, I think, take stock and compare just how they. Yeah. How they're different at this moment in time, a year out.
- [36:39]
Zena Keda
Yeah. It seems like the theme of being unique in the ownership structure between the NWSL and the WNBA team in Portland is actually finding a way to trickle down into the unique approach they are having and building their team. But these are not the only two teams. These teams are official, but there are other teams in cities, at least cities that want franchises to come to them. I've heard, you know, a lot of different things. Candace Parker being involved in one in Tennessee. I heard Jayson Tatum being involved in one in Boston. I need you guys to clear things up for me. I don't want to be wrong. What Are the cities that are in the mix? Where do things stand? When will we know if these bids have been accepted?
- [37:16]
Ben Pickman
Yeah, I mean, we should, I guess, clear up one point of fact there. Jason Tatum, though he plays for the Boston Celtics, he would actually have been linked to a bid in St. Louis. That's where he's from. Not even in Boston, but basically a couple months back, I think it was the end of January, early February, January 30, was the deadline for the WNBA for bids for the 16th franchise. And that was why around that time, there was a kind of flood of both public groups that went public showing their interest in or showing that they had bid on teams. More than 10 potential ownership groups submitted formal bids. According to sources that myself and my colleague Mike Vorkanov that we talked to. Some of those cities that we confirmed submitted bids include Austin, Texas, Charlotte, North Carolina, Cleveland, Denver, Detroit, Houston, Kansas City, Nashville and Philadelphia. Those were some of the places again, that we confirmed. Again, I just rattled off, I think, nine names, and we know that there were more than 10 who ended up putting their names in. So, you know, it's kind of an ongoing process to try and figure out this team. Kathy Engelbert, the WNBA commissioner, during the April draft just a few weeks ago, she said there's no specific timeline on naming team number 16. You know, there had been some reporting a couple months back that Cleveland was like a lock basically to get it. The league never confirmed that to be the case and again has not announced Cleveland as that team. But Kathy, Uncle Bird has again said that they're on track to have at least 16 teams by 2028. And, you know, I think it's wait and see whether it's a 2027 star, whether it's a 2028 start, and whether it's 16 teams or if they end up going to more, and this is speculation on my part, I should be clear because there is so much interest again from these prospective groups in trying to get a WNB franchise. So there's still a lot that needs to be sorted out here.
- [39:08]
Zena Keda
How much does it cost to make a bid? And if you are making a bid, how do you ensure that you don't have what happened with the American Basketball League where teams had to fold or, you know, even some early on WNBA teams. We talked about the Portland Fire, like where teams were not able to continue on? What's the difference now when you're making a bid, that your team will take hold and find success?
- [39:34]
Ben Pickman
Well, one of the really interesting things about a lot of the groups that have bid here that I just kind of rattled out is that they have very strong NBA ties and there's kind of a circling or recycling rather, that might be going on, depending on who the league selects from the kind of origins of the WNBA where, you know, they had so many teams that were tied to NBA groups to the present. Because in Philadelphia, say the ownership group behind the Philadelphia 76ers, they're looking to bring a franchise to the city. In Houston, Tillman Fertitta, he's the owner of the Houston Rockets, he submitted a bid for a franchise. Detroit, Tom Gore is the owner of the Pistons. He's leading a group. Cleveland is Dan Gilbert, the majority owner of the Cavs. They formally put in a bid. So, you know, again, those are just examples of teams with heavy or groups with heavy NBA ties trying to get involved. And as Sabrina can talk about too, like, that is something we saw early in the WNBA life cycle, you know, 25 years ago.
- [40:31]
Sabrina Merchant
Yeah. So just to go back to that cost question for a second, you know, when the Golden State Valkyries were announced as a team, their expansion fee was $50 million. The Toronto Tempo put up a fee of $115 million. And then the Portland, yet to be named WNBA team is putting up $125 million, but that includes the cost of the practice facility that they are building with the Portland Thorns. So the price just keeps going up and up. And you think about not too long ago, when the Las Vegas Aces were sold to Mark Davis, he bought the team for $2 million and then assumed the debt of the franchise. So that's 20, 21, $2 million and then 125 million for the Portland team. So that's. That's why I think that this round of expansion has a better chance of succeeding just because the league is in a much better economically healthy position to actually support the growth of the league compared to when, you know, it had 16 teams and they were just going bust, especially during the recession in 2008 in the United States, of course.
- [41:27]
Zena Keda
And of course, we know more teams means more opportunities, and that means more chances for players, whether they're domestic or international, to find a way into the wnba. Okay, folks, very excited for all of the new teams in the W. Before we close out today's show in our Valkyries preview, we gotta play our new game, Two Takes and a Lie preseason edition. Now, I already heard some feedback that you guys really liked this last time, so we have to play it again. This time it's gonna be Ben Presenting Sabrina and I with three takes. Two that he wholeheartedly believes in his heart of hearts that are true or will happen, and one that he does not. And Sabrina and I need to work to figure out what's real or what's B.S. okay, Ben, you got the floor. Go ahead.
- [42:26]
Ben Pickman
Sounds good. So here are my three takes again for this very fun edition preseason edition. And I've tried to make some. Some predictions here. So in no order, or maybe there's an order. That's for you to decide. Xena and Sabrina. Number one, Stephanie White, the Indiana Fever's head coach, will win Coach of the year in 2025. Not his take. Number one, Stephanie White, will win coach of the year in 2025. Second take, Caitlin Clark will lead the WNBA in scoring this season. Caitlin Clark will lead the league in scoring this season. And my third take, or my first take, depending on maybe it's my truthful take or it's my lie. That's for you to determine. Again, no team.
- [43:12]
Zena Keda
We know the game, Ben. We know.
- [43:13]
Ben Pickman
Yeah, you just gotta, you know, just gotta plant the seeds of doubt. You know, no team will win three quarters of its games this year. So again, you know, it's a 44 game schedule. And I'm saying that no single team will win more than three quarters of its games this year.
- [43:32]
Sabrina Merchant
Okay, so last season, the New York Liberty won 32 games, which would have been 80% of their games. So more than three quarters. Just based on fractions of decimals here. So basically, Ben is saying that he thinks no one is going to be as dominant during the regular season as the Liberty are or were this year.
- [43:50]
Zena Keda
Wait, how many games do they win?
- [43:52]
Sabrina Merchant
32 out of 40. So that's 80% out of 40.
- [43:55]
Zena Keda
Okay. Yep.
- [43:56]
Sabrina Merchant
So this year he's basically saying nobody. You said no one will win more than 75% of their games. Yeah, 33 out of 44.
- [44:03]
Zena Keda
Yeah.
- [44:04]
Sabrina Merchant
Okay.
- [44:04]
Zena Keda
Right. Okay.
- [44:05]
Sabrina Merchant
All right. I mean, like, personally, I think Minnesota's gonna win more than that. But this is a Ben take.
- [44:10]
Zena Keda
So this is the Ben take, right?
- [44:12]
Ben Pickman
Wild card.
- [44:13]
Sabrina Merchant
Okay, so if he thinks that Stephanie White is going to be Coach of the Year, how wins does Indiana have to get to get Coach of the Year? That's my question.
- [44:21]
Zena Keda
That's a good point. But that's besides the point. But I do believe that Ben thinks that Stephanie.
- [44:25]
Sabrina Merchant
Oh, I 100% believe that Stephanie White is going to be down to the other two for me.
- [44:28]
Zena Keda
Yeah. Now, the Caitlin aspect is. And this is only because, you know, I read y'all I do my job. But Stephanie White said that she wants to take the ball out of Caitlin's hands in terms of being able to spread the love. Right. Not have her consistently have to be the playmaker. Now, if Caitlin has the ball in her hands a lot less than she did last year, that's gonna be an impact on her scoring, in my opinion. Um, it's gonna be a lot less step backs, pull ups, creation off the dribble, all the above. So. And I think also a lot more distribution, sharing the ball. So I think that. I don't think he believes that. I don't think he believes that Caitlin will win, score, or lead the league in scoring this year. Literally, based off of the reporting that came out. I think he believes that no one's going to be as dominant as the Liberty were. I think he believes that Stephanie White will take coach of the year. I do not believe he thinks Caitlin Clark is going to.
- [45:29]
Sabrina Merchant
So I'm just looking at, like, second half of the season. Post Olympic break, Caitlin was third in league in scoring behind Asia Wilson and Kelsey Mitchell. Now, I don't think Asia's going to score as much this year by design on the aces. I think they are trying to avoid that.
- [45:40]
Zena Keda
Right. Because it's similar to Caitlin.
- [45:42]
Sabrina Merchant
Yeah. They wanted to just by like Caitlyn being Caitlin, she could lead the league scoring. Like, how much can Stephanie White really take the ball out of her hands? I. Even in this preseason game, every single one of her baskets but one was unassisted.
- [45:56]
Zena Keda
Oh, that's a good point.
- [45:57]
Sabrina Merchant
But do we can't help it.
- [45:58]
Zena Keda
Ben believes that, like, this is facts. These are facts. These are facts. But does Ben believe that Caitlyn can do it again?
- [46:06]
Sabrina Merchant
I think. Or get the lies is the 75% take.
- [46:10]
Zena Keda
Ooh, really?
- [46:12]
Sabrina Merchant
I mean, we can differ here. That's fine.
- [46:13]
Zena Keda
Okay. Yeah, let's differ on that. Let's differ on that. Let's see. Ben, tell us, what's your two takes that you believe? What's your lie you don't believe?
- [46:21]
Ben Pickman
Yeah, I love a split decision here. The tension is just building. Yeah. Can you imagine? Well, I will say you are correct in that my Stephanie White take is definitely one that I believe. I think she will win coach of the year. You think about again, the Indiana Fever. They haven't had a winning record since 2015. And I think it's safe to say that I expect them to make a leap whether Caitlin Clark leads the league in scoring or not be a top four seed. You know, get a hint home Court in the first round of the postseason. So again, I like Stephanie White there. And again, like first year coach, the award, again, voters tend to skew a little bit towards the new coach and the team making the jump they're well positioned to do.
- [47:05]
Zena Keda
Get to the lies, Ben. Get to the lies.
- [47:08]
Ben Pickman
My next take that I believe is that no team will win three quarters of its games. I, I think that again, the league, the league is really, really tight and there's a lot of really competitive teams and I think a lot of teams are very focused on, you know, trying to play their best basketball at the right time in the postseason. I also think Euro basket, again coming in June will have a little bit of impact from a depth perspective. Like you think about the New York Liberty, for instance. Sabrina mentioned their win percentage from last year. They're going to lose three key pieces. Leo, Leo Fevich near a Sabli, Marine, Johannes in June. Like maybe the departure of some key international players cost a team a game or two or three in that stretch and as a result, you know, Nobody's breaking the 75% win total. My lie is that I think Caitlin Clark will lead the WNBA in scoring. I do not believe that to be the case, though. I think again, if you believe that, totally reasonable prediction. Caitlin Clark was, I guess, seventh last year in league scoring. She also did lead the league in assists. But I do think, you know, the Fever have a ton of depth around their roster and I do think they are going to be really cognizant of trying to manage Caitlin Clark's minutes and trying to win games. But they're in figure it out mode for the second half. And postseason run, like I think all year really is for them is about setting up good habits so that they can play their basketball at the right time. And certainly I think Caitlin can go out and score 32 points a game. Like some crazy number. Like it wouldn't be shocking and she's going to have these outbursts. But I think, you know, I think they're going to try and say, don't just get us 25, 30 points a night. Like, let's try and figure out what works. So, yeah, that is my lie, I guess. Xena, congratulations for picking this one correctly.
- [48:48]
Zena Keda
Thank you. You know, the bias was inherent a little bit because I know you're like, I watched the Liberty do what they did up close right in front of my eyes. I don't know if somebody could do it again this year. So I was like, you know, that might be my little hint. I don't I think that, you know, Ben's gonna look out for his team in New York and be like, I'm just joking. You're a reporter. You are unbiased.
- [49:08]
Sabrina Merchant
But he was signed to the team for 45 minutes over the weekend.
- [49:11]
Zena Keda
I know he's low key, ex player. But anyways, that is gonna be it for today. And coming up on Friday, we got a big culture episode. I'm really excited for this. We're gonna talk about some rivalries, whether they're w created or not. We're gonna talk about money. We're gonna talk about sneaker drops. I know y'all saw that Patty Cake A1 commercials. They've been everywhere. We're going to talk about style. And yes, this is dropping the morning after the Met Gala. So we're going to be talking a little bit about that. Definitely tune in.
- [49:41]
Ben Pickman
I didn't get the invite. I might have played at Barclays on Saturday, but Sabrina Unescu, Stewie and John Cole Jones, they were all at the Met Gala. Not me.
- [49:49]
Zena Keda
Your contract had to be longer for than 45 minutes. That's what happened.
- [49:52]
Ben Pickman
That's true. Maybe next year.
- [49:53]
Zena Keda
That's okay. Next year. Next year pick up to 50 minutes. Maybe they'll get that invite out. If you haven't yet, hit that follow button wherever you're listening. So you never miss a pod. And hey, you know, while you're at it, come back and check us out on YouTube. I yell and I look great doing it on YouTube. Go check out the video. It's great. And drop us a comment wherever you're listening. We love to read them. And if you'd be so kind, give us a rating. It helps new people find the show. And back to those comments. We really, really love when y'all write articles under the articles. It's like our favorite.
- [50:26]
Sabrina Merchant
It's great.
- [50:27]
Zena Keda
It's insight that, you know, it's like, it's wonderful. So appreciate you guys. And don't forget, as always, there's always more to read and watch over at our partner, the Yahoo. Sports hub. So don't forget to check it out at sports.yahoo.com women-sports on behalf of the athletic, I'm Zena Keda. Thanks for listening and we will see you next time. No off season is hosted by Zena Kada with Chantelle Jennings, Sabrina Merchant and Ben Pickman. It's produced by Tanika Perot. Our executive producers are Andrea B. Scott and Cassius Fleming. Our theme music is by Marcus Bagala. Brenna Haupt is our video Editor Shannon Ryan is managing editor of women's basketball at the Athletic. Jessie Burton is our head of audio, and Tim McMaster is is our director of audio operations.
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Ben Pickman
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- [52:49]
Sabrina Merchant
Acast powers the world's best podcasts.
- [52:53]
Zena Keda
Here's a show that we recommend. Hey guys. Welcome to Giggly Squad, a place where.
- [52:59]
Sabrina Merchant
We make fun of everything but most importantly ourselves. I'm Paige Desorbo. I'm Hannah Berner.
- [53:04]
Ben Pickman
Welcome.
- [53:05]
Zena Keda
Welcome to the Squad.
- [53:06]
Sabrina Merchant
Giggly Squad started on Summer House when we were giggling during an inappropriate time.
- [53:10]
Zena Keda
But of course we can't be managed.
- [53:12]
Sabrina Merchant
So we decided to start this podcast to continue giggling.
- [53:15]
Ben Pickman
We will make fun of pop culture news.
- [53:17]
Sabrina Merchant
We're watching fashion trends pep talks where we give advice, mental health moments and games and guests. Listen to Giggly Squad on Acast or wherever you get your podcasts. Acast helps creators launch, grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com.