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No Offseason: The Athletic Women's Basketball Show
What’s next in the CBA negotiations? —WNBA & College Hoops Mailbag!
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D
Hello everyone, and welcome to no Off Season. I'm Zena Caida.
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E
I'm Sabrina Merchant.
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B
And I'm Ben Pickman.
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D
And today on the show, it is finally mailbag time. Okay, you guys have asked the questions and we are here to answer them. We are going to dive into your questions on the CBA Women's College Hoops and the W. We'll break it down. We're going to share some of our opinions and make sure that you get the insights that you've been waiting for. So, Ben and Sabrina, y' all ready?
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E
Let's do it.
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D
Let's do it. Let's get right into it. First and foremost, Amy J. Thank you for your question. She emailed us to say enjoy the pod and I'm trying to make sense of what will happen in the CBA negotiations. I understand that though, those in rookie contracts are not part of the free agency world. That said, would a new agreement that boosted salaries apply to those in rookie contracts? I follow. Two athletes that just finished their second year hope to God that they could make more money. Amy I feel the same way. Sabrina, what's the answer to that one?
- [03:14]
E
Yeah, so we don't actually know how rookie contracts are going to be adjusted in the new cba, but we can kind of look at the previous CBA in 2020 to get a better sense of how things were adjusted then. In 2020 we saw maximum salaries double. We saw minimum salaries go up significantly. And what happened was any salary that was below the league minimum, whether that was a veteran contract, whether that was a second round rookie contract, was bumped up to the league minimum under the new cba. So that meant that you had some players like Afisa Collier and Rickey Gumbowale who were All Stars in 2019 as rookies but didn't see their salary change because it was still a little bit higher than the league minimum. But then you had players like, you know, Marina Mabry, who was a second rounder who had her salary bumped up about $10,000 because it was the league minimum efficiency, was a second rounder. So admittedly that would be a much bigger bump in this current salary framework that we are seeing proposals of. If the league minimum is around 200,000, that would be an increase of more than 100,000 for most players on a rookie contract. So that's what I would expect to see is everybody at least at the league minimum because you wouldn't want to penalize people for coming in before the prior cba. But I don't think we'd see a percentage increase if the rookie salaries were at the 30th percentile. They would still be at the 30th percentile. And the new salary framework, I think they would just get to the minimum and then we'd stop there.
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D
I think it would make sense to make sure that everyone's on the same level ground threshold in terms of trying to reconcile whatever happens in this new cba. So we'll have to see Ben, anything to add there.
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B
The other interesting thing to watch for in this new agreement as it relates to rookie contracts is just the length of the agreements. Right. As we've reported on, the players union is trying to shorten the length of a rookie scale contract. Right. Currently it's three years plus a team option for, you know, your first round pick, for instance. They want to make it two years plus one. And so there's going to be an interesting balancing act dynamic to figure out there as well in terms of just the length of contracts for rookies who have already been drafted versus those who you know will be drafted in this upcoming WNBA draft.
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D
And Ben, you wrote about this and you laid it out really nicely of like why they want to shorten those contracts because by the time that they finish out those rookie scale contracts and then potentially get cord and like they're not going to look at supermax money until they're later in their 20s and that's, you know, that's getting not necessarily past their prime. But you're not able to capitalize on the amount of super max dollars as much as you would like. So makes a lot of sense. We'll have all of this is going to have to be laid out in the new cba, but great question, Amy, and we'll see what happens. Okay, let's continue to talk about things that are going to be impacted by the cba and that is WNBA free agents. Ben, I'm going to throw this one to you because Andrea S. Asked you directly, Ben, in your free agent piece you discussed the best free agents available. I'm more curious on which free agents do think are most likely to move. And let's take the top 30 or so players and give me your five most likely to move smiley face.
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B
Well, I appreciate the question. I will first say that this was a free agency story that both Sabrina and I wrote. So we both deserve. We put our heads together on this project and you know, the way we structured it back in October at the start of the off season was we had three kinds of groups of free agents. We grouped players that we said we're not going anywhere who were free agents. Nafisa Collier, Brianna Stewart, Sabrina Unescu, Asia Wilson, players that we would be stunned if they left their current teams. We then looked at restricted free agents. Again, these are players that can sign a contract with any franchise, but the incumbent team has the right to match any offer so it's difficult for them to change teams. Examples of that high profile examples include Ryan Howard, Veronica Burton, for instance, Lexi hall, of the Indiana Fever. And then we finally got to the third group of players, which were the players that we kind of explored in more depth in this story, who we think could be on the move. And so to answer the question that was asked, I guess some names to watch that I think have the most realistic chance to move potentially. Arike Gumbawale is one of them. You know, she spent the first six years of her career in Dallas. Then last year, I guess is year seven for her. And the franchise centers itself now around Paige Beckers right. Arique, still a prolific player, but had career worst year. Right. Scoring a career low 15 and a half points, sub 37% shooting. You know, this is Paige Becker's team. I think the franchise appears very clear about that. And so what does that mean for her future? That's certainly a name to watch. Another player to watch, Skyler Diggins. You know, when we had Sonja Raman on the podcast, we asked her if she expects to be coaching Skyler and neca, and we didn't exactly get a conclusive answer as it relates to whether she thinks both of those players will be back next year. Skyler's 35 years old. She probably wants to play for a winner at this stage in her career. That's not to say Seattle can't be that, but, you know, she could certainly be a veteran player who has a score, a playmaker, a point of attack, defender, like she can provide a jolt to a team. Two other names to watch that I would keep an eye on as we just go through the list. Azari Stevens, the Los Angeles Sparks, you know, a career year. Last year. She was someone who both Sabrina and I were interested in targeted during our expansion draft project. Look at the LA Sparks front court, right? Cambrink, very much a centerpiece there. Like Rekia Jackson, very much a centerpiece there. How does Azeray Stevens fit into the mix? Derickahambi, obviously, I was gonna say important there.
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D
Yeah.
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B
How does Stevens fit in is an open question and a name to watch as a result. One other Natasha Cloud. You know, she's bounced around over these past couple years, but with a new coach coming to New York, Chris DeMarco, what does that mean for Natasha Cloud's future? You know, I think that's a little bit of an open question as well. So those are four. I don't know. Did I miss anyone? Sabrina? Anyone you'd add?
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E
I mean, something I'd keep an eye on is just the situation in Minnesota where their entire starting lineup is unrestricted free agents. You know, I'm thinking about that press conference that Kayla McBride had after game four of the semifinals when their season ended, and she was so emotional, talking about how you just know when a season like this ends, you're not going to be able to come to work with the same people again. Like this team is going to change. And it was a very different tone than what was said in 2024 when they lost in the finals in arguably more heartbreaking fashion. Right? Just the understanding that things are going to be different because of the contract situation. So I don't think Nafisa Collier is going anywhere. But you look at an Alanna Smith, Akayla McBride, Bridget Carlton, Courtney Williams, any of those players I think could easily be pilfered whether they're protected in the expansion draft or not, just by a bigger contract, a bigger role, a different situation. You wonder if what's happened with the Lynx has already run its course.
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D
Really, really great point. Last year I've kind of felt like we're ready to run it back. This year Minnesota was a little bit like have no idea what's coming on the horizon. But we shall see where these free agents land and we'll see where what the CBA allows them to do that still is yet to be seen. So great question though. Let's keep it moving. I want to get to Hannah's question. Hannah wants to know hi no off season podcast fam. I am an avid listener from St. Louis, Missouri and I run a women's basketball watch party group here. My question for the PODC what can fans be doing to support WNBA players during their CBA negotiations? And this actually is on the same lines as another fan, Michael M. Who also asked what can we the fans do to show the support during the CBA negotiations? Any recommendations on little things we can do to either support the players if slash when they strike or to directly help put pressure on the league and to go ahead and kind of help me answer this question. I'm going to pull from legendary head coach from South Carolina Dawn Staley, being asked this same question at an event this past year on a panel and this is what she said. I would say this. You know how when you have an issue in your neighborhood or your your state, contact your nearest senator, contact email your nearest franchise owner, just flood them and then, and then they'll tell them forward to Kathy.
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E
Read it and then.
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D
Forward the Kathy, flood the emails. I mean those are the voices of the people who are paying to watch the product, which is a great product. That's on the floor. So along those same lines, I also asked the former player that was involved in the last CBA negotiation and their response was very similar. Put pressure on the public officials. In this case, it would be the owners being able to publicly share your support of the players. Wear the shirts, buy the shirts, wear the shirts at the signs. They don't hurt, right? They don't hurt. Be respectful, but they don't hurt just as much as you can being putting pressure on the owners and those that have to be the ones to guide Kathy because Kathy Engelbert does report into these owners and make those decisions. And Kathy's the main name that we know is at the negotiating table. So definitely just do what Don said and help get the word out to those that are in charge. All right, let's keep it moving to the next question and get our attention to the action on the court. Rich F. Sabrina has a Washington Mystics Question the Mystics have two rookie All Stars, a young and quickly improving center in Shakira Austin and Georgia Amore, and three more first round picks reinforcing them for next season. Are they on the OKC Thunder trajectory? For those of you that are not NBA avid fans, OKC has been building through the draft. They have just used a treasure trove of draft picks and acquired through trades and basically created the future of their program through development as opposed to getting first round picks and then building around them through big free agency pickups or trades. So the question is, how soon can we expect the Mystics to be a contender? They're doing it the slower way. Sabrina, what are your thoughts?
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E
Well, I love this question because Michael Winger, the president of Monumental Basketball, which oversees the Washington Mystics, spent seven years in the front office at the Oklahoma City Thunder. So he is very well familiar with how they operate and how to conduct a rebuild. He's the one that basically started the rebuild in Washington because it was a team that was sort of holding on, trying to continue to be a veteran team and look for one last chance of playoff luck before Winger got there and now they have not. They traded away a lot of their best assets to get younger players to get draft picks. They didn't go the full OKC Thunder route because, you know, they weren't able to get anything out of Natasha Cloud who left in free agency, weren't able to get anything out of Elena Deladon who ended up retiring. Chrissy Toliver also retires. So a few people who, you know, whereas OKC extracted every last bit of draft capital out of their players. Washington was not able to quite do the same. But I think the general tenor of building through the draft, accumulating as many draft picks as possible, realizing that, like, we have to bottom out before we come back up, that is all very much in the OKC mold. And thus far, not having a number one overall pick to show for it is again, something that the OKC Thunder have had to deal with. Were the highest they drafted during the stretches, number two, when they got Chet Holmburn. So it's an interesting buildup. They have, like they mentioned, Sony, Kiki Iriefen, George Amor, Shakira Austin, even Jade Melbourne and a few other young assets on the team. I think they're still searching for that number one mega star that brings it all together and that's where the extra draft picks come in handy. You know, they can potentially find that player in the draft or just sign a player in free agency because everyone is available, you know, during this off season to potentially come to the Mystics. But I'd say we're probably still a year or two away from the Mystics really contending. The fact that they still have three first round picks in this draft, you don't play three first round picks and expect to compete in the playoffs. That's just not something that happens right away. So I think, you know, they don't have a ton of draft assets beyond this year. You know, they have a swap with Chicago in 2027, but that's not an extra pick. That's just a better pick. So I think this year I wouldn't expect them to be in, you know, contention, especially because 15 teams, only eight make the playoffs. It's going to be even harder to make the playoffs this year, but maybe like two years down the line is where you can start to see the Mystics contend for the playoffs, contend for home court. But again, I still think they're that one big piece away.
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D
Ben, do you think that there's any chance they'll use those first round picks to get an asset or once people sign to teams, they might utilize those picks in a trade to get a big star that could be someone that could put them in contention?
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B
Yeah, I mean, I definitely think it's possible. I mean, we've seen them wanting to be flexible and wanting to be agile and how they maneuver around the draft. I mean, they dealt Ariel Atkins for additional draft capital. Right. And that set them up for exactly what they did last off season. One of the things that caught my attention though, with this question, why I liked it so Much is it got me thinking about like other players who were drafted a little bit late who might have been traded and kind of bloomed into stars a la Shea Gilgeous Alexander of the Oklahoma City Thunder. And I thought one of the interesting and this is not an A to a comparison, but one player that came to mind was Kalia Kopper and her journey, right? She's never been the best player in the league the way that Shea Gilders Alexander of the Thunder is. But I thought like comparing their trajectories is kind of fun because she began her career with Washington, ironically enough fitting for this question. And they traded her to acquire a veteran in Elena deladon. Right. Much like Shea Gilders Alexander was shipped out of LA so that that team could get Paul George and eventually sign Kawhi Leonard.
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E
But with Elena Deladon, right, And that.
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B
Is the big difference, right? That is the big difference in the comparison point. But it again, like took Copper some time to develop and eventually she becomes a star in her own right. I just think, I don't know, it's not exactly a perfect comparison. I was just trying to think of other stars in the W who bloom late a la sga, maybe someone like Phi. But she made an all star team her first year though she's now the best player, you know, years years later. Like players who didn't go number one because so often in the W, as Sabrina mentioned, like it is the number one pick who is the centerpiece of everything. We have far less examples of the kind of, you know, sub five pick blossoming into that number one best player in the league, for instance.
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D
I think that's a really good perspective to have just thinking about player journeys and realizing there are players that on the right team, in the right circumstances could become these superstars. Of course, players like Veronica Burton, Kayla Thornton, seeing what they were able to do with the Valkyries comes to mind. But really, this question is a really great question for the context of expansion because as there are more roster spots to fill technically across not per team, but across the league, there has been this conversation about the dissolving or the dissipation of just like talent, right? And so there's going to be more teams. They're going to find themselves in a quote unquote, rebuild whether they mean to or intend to or not, and needing to build through the draft and being patient with trying to become a team that's in contention, not only the expansion teams, but the teams that might be around now that might lose talent in this free Agency. So this is going to be very interesting to see who is going to end up in this developmental type of track where they have to develop talent and it's going to just take a little bit of time and fans are going to have to be patient. But Mystics might be on that, but they've started theirs even before the expansion teams come about. And so this will be interesting how Jamila Weideman handles this. All right, thanks guys for answering that question. We're gonna keep it on the W. And speaking about expansion, talking about the expansion draft now, Daniel K. I don't know how much you're listening, but I'm gonna read your question. I think I got a little cheat code for you. Daniel K. Asked. All we know about the expansion draft is that we have no idea what they're going to do. Yeah, you're right. Daniel, since almost all vets are unrestricted free agents and of course the ongoing CBA negotiations, putting on your commish cap, how would you propose handling expansion rosters? Now, before I pass this over to Sabrina and Ben, we did do an episode in which Ben and Sabrina broke down their commissioner cap examples of how they would handle the expansion draft. And that was based on an article that they have also written that is live on the site. So you could always go read that or go listen to that episode. But it seems there might be some insight you've had since that episode in those articles. Sabrina, Ben, enlighten us.
- [19:37]
B
Yeah, so when we did the exercise a couple weeks back, we set it up where there were 12 rounds in our expansion draft, our mock expansion draft. And in the first six rounds, each existing team could protect five players. During those rounds, each could only have one player selected again by either Toronto or Portland. Then after the sixth round, we did something, what is kind of called a clawback where existing teams can protect an additional player. And during those final six rounds, again, each team could only have one player selected. And that was kind of the structure of the draft. It was modeled after the 2000, I guess, multi team expansion draft back in, you know, 25 plus years ago. What we've subsequently come to understand, and again, some of this can change, is that I think more of the expectation around the league is that five players are to be protected and that there isn't going to be this clawback where there isn't going to be the opportunity halfway through the draft for one of the existing 13 teams now to protect an additional player. Also, things that I think we're expecting is that each of those franchises Toronto and Portland can only take one player each from the existing franchises. Right. So when we did the mock exercise, for instance, I drafted as the tempo. I ended up having two players from the Los Angeles Sparks. From what we understand, we do not think that will be the case. Of course, all of this is subject to change and some of it might depend on whether there's a core designation or not right in the cba. And what other kind of contractual, you know, what else cheeks out on the contractual framework of the league, but those are some of the big picture stuff that we think we understand right now. As you know, who knows when the expansion draft will occur?
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E
And with regards to everyone being an unrestricted free agent, we also have somewhat learned that each team will only be allowed to pick one unrestricted free agent like last season. So you might see a situation where a team runs out of players that they want to pick who are not unrestricted free agents, and then they just start passing at the end of the draft. You know, we saw something similar with Golden State where they didn't like any of the available options from the Seattle Storm and just passed from them instead of taking a player. So even though there are very large amount of unrestricted free agents in this upcoming off season, the framework that has been laid out to us still involves only one unrestricted free agent per team. Because as Ben said, currently there's only one core designation that can be attached to that ufa.
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D
Such a good point. Remember that these teams are not forced to take players in the later rounds. They can basically opt out and then enter the conversations just like any other team would in trying to court these players to come to their teams. And that's how the Valkyries ended up with Monique Billings. I believe so. All right, let's keep it moving to the expansion draft and looking at the relationship between the NCAA and the wnba. Robin W. Wrote in and asked what the current relationship like between WNBA front offices and head coaches and NCAA women's basketball head coaches. And are any NCAA coaches voicing frustration or concern about the recent choices of WNBA organizations, either publicly or behind the scenes? So before I throw this over to our writers, like, this kind of goes in line with what Dawn Staley was talking about. Just being able to voice your opinion in guiding fans to do that. That's an indirect way to say, yeah, things aren't perfect. Make your voices known. But I haven't seen anything directly. Very curious on the same boat of Robin. So are any NCAA coaches voicing frustration or concern about the recent choices of WNBA organizations? In terms of players they're keeping either publicly or behind the scenes.
- [23:10]
B
I mean, I think we have seen a lot of well wishes, I guess, or a lot of camaraderie right now between Jose Fernandez and the D Wings and Gino or Yukon. Right. They, as we got into a little bit in our conversation with Jose last week, Vera, have known each other for decades. Right. They've coached against each other. They've known each other. You know, I know that I saw Jose recently watching a game with Gino's wife, for instance, in Connecticut. Like, they clearly know each other very well. And there's obviously a player that the Dallas Wings have in Paige Beckers who is important, was important to Geno on court. Success is still important to him personally and will be important to Jose Fernandez's success in Dallas. So. So that's obviously one example of seeming synergy. I think it's also interesting when you think about this moment in the W and how some college coaches have jumped to the W. Right. So you think about the Los Angeles Sparks front office more broadly. Lynn Roberts, you know, the head coach, Reagan Plebly, general manager coming from tcu, Lynn Roberts coming from Utah. I have to imagine that that is a front office and coaching staff that on the whole has pretty good relationships with college coaches around the country, knowing that that was them for years and years and years. Right. And so that's got to help in the relationship building. The other thing that I've heard a lot of, and you start to hear it, I think really in recent years as more W teams have invested in their facilities, is just college coaches recognizing that the player experience in the WNBA is much better than it has been before. Right. Because you think about five years ago, ten years ago, for so many, what you could get in college in terms of travel, in terms of hotels, in terms of, you know, other amenities, practice facilities. That was better when you were 18 to 22 years old than when you became 23 and you entered the pro ranks and then played the next 10 years of your career in the WNBA. So as that has shifted, I do think the general, like, perception of the W has changed a lot in the eyes of college coaches. And I have to imagine that is only going to change as money, salaries, increases also hit the W in a way that we haven't seen before.
- [25:07]
E
Yeah, I think some of the impetus of this question was, you know, you've seen a lot of teams cut players immediately after the draft and choose to roster their teams with more veterans and international players and not ones who are directly out of college. So I think part of the question was, do college coaches ever get offended with WNBA coaches when they don't hold onto their players? Right. And I think that there are some college coaches that have a reputation in the NBA of developing their players specifically for the WNBA. You know, like Maryland, Louisville, UConn. Obviously, like coaches whose players, no matter where they're drafted, no matter when they're drafted, tend to do pretty well in the pros. And then there's certain coaches who coach to win at their programs. Right? Like, they're not expressly trying to develop for the wnba. They're trying to win in the ncaa, which is a perfectly valid way of going about your job as a college coach. And that, you know, obviously changes the way that these players are viewed when they get to the WNBA or when they're even drafted. But there's just always competing incentives for college coaches, for WNBA coaches. But I think, like Ben said, that there's, you know, an obvious fraternity between all of them. You see a lot of going back and forth, not just college going to the W. You know, I think about, like, Katie Smith recently going back from Minnesota, Ohio State, or Nikki Blue going from the Phoenix Mercury and the Los Angeles Sparks now at usc. So there's always a back and forth. These sweet coaches have relationships dating back years and years and years. Anytime you see two people in the women's basketball world, there's a chance that there is literally one degree of separation between two of them. So everybody knows everybody. It's a very small community, relatively. And I think just like any other professional networking relationship, there are some coaches that have better relationships with others, some franchises that choose to continue to draw from the same college pools. And that, frankly, isn't going to change all that much because everybody has their own preferences.
- [26:54]
D
All right, after the break, we're going to turn our attention to questions regarding college basketball. Don't go anywhere, guys.
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And I'm not just saying that because I work here. Get started@vanta.com. So let's check out some of the questions we got about women's college hoops. We're going to start things off with a little fun one Lisa emailed in to ask. I am curious to know how Sabrina evaluates the bottom of the top 25. This is a Sabrina scale question. I love it. I get the focus is on the best teams, but as a Gophers fan, Minnesota, and I love that she has them in the top 25. But when I look at the rest of the list, I'm not sure. Ooh, Sabrina, give us the insight. How do you get past the top 15 in your top 25?
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E
Yeah, I think this is the part of the poll where there's a lot of disagreement between the voters. I mean, there's a lot of disagreement between me and Ben, honestly, and we spend a lot more time talking about this than I do with any of the other voters in the eight people. To me, I like teams that have power conference wins. I think that always stands out. I like teams that show that they're good at one particular thing. I generally prefer teams that are like excellent at one thing and so so at others to teams that are just solid all throughout and, you know, at this stage of the season, like not suffering any losses. Even though teams schedule differently, that is always something that rings true because once you get to conference play, everyone's going to lose and that'll, you know, shake up things quite a bit. But if you can get through this part of the season unscathed, that definitely registers in terms of who I want to rank, especially in that bottom 20 to 25 range.
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D
What about you, Ben?
- [30:03]
B
Yeah, I mean, I look at again, the win loss record I think helped serve as a starting point. I then tend to look at sites like CBB analytics or her HoopStats and see if there are any outliers from a numbers standpoint in terms of net rating, offensive rating, defensive rating, teams that I might not be watching as regularly or as closely but that I should keep an eye on. And then I try and go back and watch some of those teams and make an evaluation or determination as I see fit. I think we should both say Sabrina and I compared to the other 30 plus voters who vote for the AP poll, we tend to zag a lot more than a lot of other people. There is someone who on Reddit who does a composite AP ballot voter ranking every single week. And Sabrina pretty consistently is in the top five, I guess. Of what I'm in the top two.
- [30:47]
E
Right now of people who zag from the rest of everybody else.
- [30:51]
B
And I think I'm pretty consistently in the top 10, the top like seven or eight. And a lot of that stems from not only like the middle, but also who we have in our final five teams. Like, we've had some choices early that a lot of others haven't. Sabrina was the first person to put Alabama, for instance, in her top 25. I think I was one of the first to put Georgia, for instance, and was higher on Ohio.
- [31:13]
E
I almost misranked for like the first three weeks of the season. Yeah.
- [31:16]
B
So, you know, there's definitely a lot of differences, but the 21 to 25 right now is definitely a little bit of a crapshoot.
- [31:22]
E
I like to call it my YOLO region, you know, because the top 16 are really like, where you're worrying about hosting and like, there's, you know, real consequences if you get into that range. And this is obviously like before net rankings are coming out for the early part of the season and there's less data to go off of. But I do think I'm a little bit more reactive in the bottom range of the poll. Like, I love to reward teams for one good week, even if it means they fall out immediately the next week. Like, I don't think it needs to be as static in that bottom range, especially.
- [31:49]
D
One thing I'll say, I do not envy you all with this having to create this list. It seems like an incredibly tedious exercise and, like, very difficult to make. And I don't know how you don't let your personal biases get into the way. But, like, I credit you all And l keen eye. We understand why you're not sure about that. Bottom because they like to zag when others like to zig. All right, let's continue our discussion around the top teams across the association. Ben, Jason wants to know which college teams who haven't made the NCAA tournament in a while have the best chance of turning the ship around this year. This is coming from Penn State basketball fans here and we unfortunately haven't seen much success over the last decade. Lol. And Jason, I'm sorry, just last show, both Sabrina and Ben wanted to ship off your best big out of Penn State.
- [32:40]
E
So I don't know, one season she'll come back.
- [32:44]
D
I'm just saying. All right, what are we thinking here, Ben?
- [32:47]
B
Yeah, not Penn State for me. In this conversation, I will call out two schools. The first one that I would really circle and I think could be the school to watch here is Texas Tech. At the time we are taping this, they are 12 and oh, so again we're taping this before their weekend game against Baylor. So. So we will see how that game plays out. But no matter what, I think this still applies to Texas Tech. Texas Tech has not made the NCAA tournament since 2012, 2013. They've made it just twice since 2005. And this had once been kind of a program that saw historic success. They made the NCAA tournament for say 16, 15, 16 straight years. @ one point they won a national championship with Cheryl Swoopes being their best player. And we've seen a much improved Texas Tech team this season, their fifth in defensive rating at the time that we tape this. They're very senior, junior led team. They have just one underclassman, three players right now averaging more than 14 per game. If you're going to highlight one player in particular, it's Bailey Maupin. She's a very, very good corner three point shooter shooting 45 and a half percent from three. She's also very good around the rim, nearly 80% at the rim. She's a 510 senior guard. She's a lead playmaker for them. They've already beaten Arkansas, Mississippi State, Washington State, smu. Last year they were one of the worst defensive rebounding teams in the country. They're much improved this year. They fouled a lot last year. They march improved this year. So Texas Tech, they've cracked into my AP top 25 again. We'll see how they fare against Baylor and the rest of the Big 12. But if they're able to, you know, have success, even some success, they don't even have to win the conference. They seem set up to potentially be a NCAA tournament team again. I rattled off some of those non con wins. One other school to watch to keep an eye out on is Washington. They made the NCAA tournament last year. They lost in the first four. That was their first NCAA tournament appearance since 2016, 2017. Really not since Kelsey Plum was there and had they had real success. And I think they've been What, a top 15, top 20 team for much of the season in both Sabrina in my ranking. So those are two to watch.
- [34:49]
D
Overall. Oh, I love this. Okay, sorry Penn State, but there's some good options out there and I am very curious as to, you know, Baylor, they got to bounce back after that Texas game this past weekend. It was a little rough to watch, but they'll do it again. You know, we'll see what happens again. I love the in state, it's not a rivalry, but any sort of in state competitions like as a girl from North Carolina, there's always this, that, that essence and air of it's a little bit more competitive when you're going up against a school that's quote unquote down the street. All right, here's a question about one team, but it's relevant to a bunch of others as well. Amy G. Wrote in with a three part question. I'm a season ticket holder to the Minnesota Gophers. Minnesota, shout out to you guys showing up. I should have worn my Minnesota shirt. My Gopher shirt. Our coaches consistently choose lesser teams for the exhibition season before Big Ten play begins. The games are blowouts and thus three questions. One, what do the underdog teams get out of it? Two, what does this offer the Gophers besides a false confidence before we have to face the likes of USC and ucla? And three, is this a common practice among nationally ranked teams? So I'll answer from the perspective of having been one of those underdog teams. What do they get out of it? Money.
- [36:06]
E
Money. That's what we call them. The by games.
- [36:07]
D
Bye. Yeah, there's always been this conception of like when you say buy games, is it b y e like buy games or is it a buy game like a bu y? And honestly, it's both. It's a buy game as in like a we're skipping over this week. We're just getting a game in. It's not that important in our schedule. So it's a buy game for the. Not the underdog team, the top dog team in that way. But it's also a buy game in that they are buying that game onto their calendar so that they can get what is supposed to be a scheduled win and get those reps and get the opportunity to play against a team that they, they know they can outmat. And ultimately it gives them the opportunity to build confidence. So the top dogs, and we've seen even Kim Mulkey reference this and be asked about this this year about. You know LSU has historically not had great non conference schedules. They typically play these smaller schools. They run them out the gym, blow up the scores. You can't really assess how good LSU is until SEC play starts. And this year Kim Mokey said that she did that because she wasn't sure what her team was going to look like. She had eight new players, just wanted to ensure that they had time to build chemistry. She had no idea that they would gel so quickly. But this would have given her, this schedule would have given her the time to do that. That's what a lot of schools do. They have these games in the non conference because they know their conference play is so hard to build chemistry to get those reps to evaluate who is coming off the bench that can help the starting five. What connectivity type lineups can we put out there to produce and then. And you basically have this like free space to do it before it actually matters. And when Sabrina just referenced the net rankings start to play in play a factor and you start competing for spots within that tournament placement. Right. So that's a lot of the times what people say is a reason and as a person that was an underdog, what do we get out of it? The opportunity to play at some really big schools like this was really cool to be able to play in arenas that you dream of, right. You imagine getting recruited to. You imagine getting the opportunity to play in front of some of these audiences in these crowds. That's an awesome experience. It is great for those that are in the mid majors and lower to potentially if they have a star player to get their stock up, how they match up against these really competitive teams and these top dog teams and bigger conferences. These type of things help you now that there's a transfer portal get picked up by bigger schools if you want to transfer later on. So definitely the exposure is a huge factor of it. But is this a common practice amongst nationally ranked teams? I'll answer this anecdotally from what I've seen and Sabrina and Ben, I'd love to get you guys opinion. I feel like in recent years especially with TV rights and more people being bought into wanting to see women's college basketball pickup sooner in the season. It feels again anecdotally like there are more teams that are top dogs planning to play against top dog other top dogs earlier in the season. And I'm looking at UConn, they've pretty much. I mean when I was playing at Yale, we were the only school in Connecticut that UConn did not play in the state of Connecticut. And that is for a little bit more tea that I will not drop on this pod between Dino Auriemma and some coaches. But the point is, is that they played all the schools, the Sacred Hearts, the smaller schools even like and that was fine because they knew that they were going to get some of the bigger competition as well throughout the season. But now it feels like UConn is like ramping up in the non conference. South Carolina is ramping up the non conference and why ESPN is calling. These big networks are calling and want these big matchups now again that's just what I've seen from my perspective. But Sabrina, Ben, how do nationally ranked teams approach this as of now and have you seen a.
- [40:02]
E
Shift? I think the majority of schools like to have big high profile games during their non conference so that they can learn something about their team that you can't really learn in non competitive games. And you know, you'll hear Kim Mulkey talk about how we had a lot of transfers, we had a lot of new players, we didn't know how we were going to gel. This is like an extended preseason for us and that's great. If you play in the SEC where you're going to be tested every game during conference play anyway, if you're like UConn and you play in the Big east, you kind of need the tests to come in non conference, right? If you play in a mid major conference like a South Dakota State or Richmond who schedule incredibly well in non conference, they're trying to pick up those wins because when they play in the Atlantic 10 or you know, Fairfield in the Metro Atlantic, whatever, sorry, I don't exactly know the acronym for that one. But their conferences aren't going to give them the same day to day competitiveness during that season as it will during non conference and if you're trying to make the NCAA tournament, either you're putting all your eggs in the we're going to win our conference tournament basket or you collect a couple resume boosting wins during the non conference and that helps your case with the committee going forward and that also helps your case with the committee when you're a top seeded team. Right. Like you look at South Carolina versus lsu. LSU is never going to get a number one seed over South Carolina because South Carolina is always building up their resume during the non conference in a way that LSU doesn't. You know, even the year that LSU won the national title, they did so as a number three seed. So it's all about what matters to you at the end of the day. Do you want to build up your confidence, build up your lineups, ease into the season knowing that, you know, the tournament seating may not work out the way you hope, or do you want to just go for it balls out right away, you know, at the start of the season, even if that's very tough as the season goes on, knowing that, okay, well, we'll be rewarded with a number one seed potentially down the.
- [41:36]
D
Line. All right, well, let's turn our attention to coaching in the NCAA with this one from Kyle Lane, who's curious to know what makes for a great women's college basketball coach. Seems like a few coaches that get all the pop, but as the game evolves, will we see more high quality coaching? Ooh, Kyle Lane, that's a little shade. Feels a little cool at the end of that question there, but it's a good question, especially in this new era of college basketball. So, Ben, I'll let you start with this one. I got some thoughts.
- [42:09]
B
Too. I want to hear from you, Zina. You were a college athlete here. You were a college basketball player. You go first on.
- [42:15]
D
This. I think that there was absolutely an era of really respecting the X's and O's as a college basketball coach. Right. I think of the Pat Summits, the Tara Vanderveers, the Jean Orlemmas, like these coaches that were really well known and when you were recruited, you looked to who could help us win a championship. Right. And that was the ultimate end game for where people ended up. And as the NIL era has emerged and really taken over, there's been a shift a little bit in coaches not only having to be these X's and O's people, but they also gotta be like GM's. They've gotta be the guys that the people that can massage personalities that can make sure that people feel like they're in a position where they can succeed, not only from an NIL perspective, but more and more people are now trying to get to the wnba. Can you put me in a position to get to the highest level? And the fact that you have to re recruit your players every single year as opposed to you get somebody in and they probably aren't leaving, because before when you try to transfer, you'd had to sit out a year and then be able to play. And that was just. You basically wasted your eligibility or extended your collegiate period longer than you wanted. So most people were just gonna stay put or quit, and you just didn't hear of that as much. Back in the day, it was very taboo to transfer. And so nowadays you see coaches not only having to try and win basketball games and do the X's and nos, but there's way more of an element of. Of recruitment. How do I get folks to my school that means I'm a personality coach. How am I getting along with these players? How many TikTok videos am I in? Right. Like, there's way more of that that I think in this era than there has been. So I think as the game evolves, I don't know if we're gonna see higher quality coaching. I think we're gonna just see folks that have multiple hands in multiple buckets in terms of being able to create a roster and also win the X's and O's. And I think one of the best people at this, and I am blanking on his name right now, head coach of tcu, Mark Campbell. Yes, Mark Campbell. And being able to recruit high quality talent and also put out the product out on the floor in which folks come in and they get better stock on their WNBA stock, but then also they can win basketball.
- [44:36]
B
Games. One of the elements, too, that I think is hard for us to assess in the public is like, how good of a practice do you run? Because I was actually talking to a coach about this, you know, last week, about what does it mean to run a good college practice? And for a lot of coaches, I think that means running an efficient practice, a practice that is organized, that runs on time, that, you know is on schedule. If you block eight minutes for a drill, it runs in eight minutes. You move from station to station very, very quickly. Like, does that actually constitute a good practice or just kind of a messiness, like in the practice that needs stops, that, you know, allows coaches to step in and teach, that has accountability sprinkled in. Does that lead to, you know, would that make up a good practice, even if players might be struggling or they might not be as locked in? And so it requires more kind of on hand or hands on teaching? I think that's a really interesting dynamic. I don't think I have a, like, a firm answer to it, but it's kind of related to this question. And it's a question off, a question that I've definitely been thinking about over the last couple days. And it's hard for us to say, but I also think, again, like, what that speaks to is some of those behind the scenes moments, right? Do you want a coach who is kind of not afraid of the messiness, but willing to get their hands dirty, so to speak, and have those difficult conversations to break plans if it means creating teachable moments? And as an effective communicator in those teachable moments, I look at some of that as qualities of really good coaches that go beyond just what you would kind of read in a textbook and go chapter and verse, step by step.
- [46:13]
D
On. I think there's a lot.
- [46:14]
E
Of. I just think college coaches need to be managers in a way that they weren't before because there's so many moving parts to a college program at this point. You need to be a teacher. You need to be able to develop your players. You also need to be able to be working with your GM to make sure that everybody's getting their nil money and you're working the portal. You need to make sure that you're working with your academic directors so that everybody's on track to actually go to class and graduate. Right. And you also constantly need to be in touch with WNBA scouts to make sure that your players are developing at the right way that they're gonna be able to potentially play in professional leagues. Right. So there's just all of these different goals that exist for a college program and you have to manage all of them simultaneously. And ideally, you're good at delegating and putting a lot of those priorities in the hands of other people. But at the same time, you are the head of the program. You need to be the public face of the program. Right. And. And I mean, part of it is just being media savvy. Right. You need to know how to present yourself in a way that people gravitate to you and want to come to be a part of your program. So there's just so many hats that college coaches wear these days in a way that it's almost easier to be a professional coach than it is to be a college coach because your job is so much more.
- [47:17]
B
Simplified. Sabrina, I'm surprised you didn't start your answer by just saying win games. I feel like that is normally how you start the answers like.
- [47:24]
E
This. Yeah, well, you guys have gotten through some of that stuff.
- [47:26]
D
Already. I think there's another thing that is going to start being really to Your point, Ben, about the practices and to the point, Sabrina, similar to what I was saying essentially about the multiple buckets is how professional and how close to the pros do you approach your program between the conversations of. Especially when you have players that are ready to get to the W? That's exactly. I mean, more players now are worried about making sure that they're in a program that doesn't hinder their growth from that perspective. And that means are we spending time doing what most programs have done for years, which is, you know, practicing, but also like running folks to death? Right. Or like. Or is there like a purpose and a guiding light to your approach? And also, how much can you have an imprint of your brand of basketball? Right. We know what you are good for. We know what your program is good for. That is something that Gino Oriemma, of course, has done so well over the course of the time that he's been reigning, and that has included the nil shift. You know his brand of basketball. And I think all these new coaches have that task as well as, like, when you come to this program, you know what to expect. And that comes to the professional aspect of it as well. All right, let's close this out with referees, referees, referees. Always an important and interesting conversation. And Kelly wrote in to ask, ask how come people complain so much about the refs and the W, but I don't hear it in college. I see the same actual refs for the most part, so same people, but something is very wrong when they're reffing the W. Help us understand.
- [49:14]
E
That. I think there's an expectation when you're watching college sports that the quality is going to be worse than when you're watching professional sports. And that extends both to the players who are not professionals, and that extends to the referees who you would assume are not as good as the professionals, otherwise they'd be referring in the professional league leagues. And the fact that it's the same referees obviously makes this quite funny. But, you know, when I watch college basketball, I'm not expecting the same level of excellence as when I'm watching professional basketball. So there's just a certain standard that should be approached when you're working with professionals, when you're refereeing professionals. And to have the same people at college and pros either says that you have extremely qualified people refereeing college games, which is why we don't hear the same level of complaining, or you have people who maybe shouldn't be referring professional games doing that, which is again, why you hear so Much complaining at that.
- [50:02]
D
Level. That's a really good point. I don't know. I'm not gonna lie to you, Kelly. Now I'm going to look closely. I'm not only going to look closely at the referees, but I'm going to look closely at social media and see are people complaining because it's a completely fair point. I have not seen the same levels of complaints. Complaints. I have not seen the same level of the use of the word physicality. You want to talk about word of the year for the.
- [50:30]
B
Wnba? I think also it comes back to like how many high profile games that everyone is watching.
- [50:35]
D
Right. You know, I think about centralization of the games too. Allows for more.
- [50:40]
B
Conversation. Yeah, right. There's more. There's just a ton of games in college. There's a ton of inventory. And yes, that is true on the WNBA context as well. But I think going back to Sabrina's comment, like the expectation is the quality of play is going to be higher the college game. Each quality of game of just the player is worse. And so, you know, I don't think like the, the errant missed call stands out potentially as much because like you're seeing a lot of missed layups or jump shots that also go awayward direction. And so games might not come down to like that one player, two plays. I do think like there are certainly examples of refs who make high profile calls in the college game who also referred to ref W games and take a lot of slack for them. I think back to a couple years ago in the NCAA tournament, Iowa versus Yukon, for instance. Remember that offensive foul, that moving screen that was called out on Leah Edwards at the end of the Yukon South Carolina south or Iowa. Iowa semifinal game. I believe that was a call made by Rogo Banion. He's also an official in the wnba. Right. Refs a lot of high profile WNB finals, you know, playoff games. Been a longtime W ref. That was a call that he made. I remember. You know, we were pretty close to him, Sabrina, as he made that call. Like there are examples of this. But yeah, I think the expectations are different generally.
- [51:58]
E
Too. It's also just I think a little bit easier to ref the college game because the skill level is a little bit lower, the pace, the athleticism is a little bit less. Right. So you can keep up with the game a little bit better in college as opposed to when you're in the W with the best athletes in the world and it just goes faster and it's harder to see everything. So I think that might be why the college game is less challenging for the same referees to officiate, which is why we don't hear the same level of.
- [52:22]
D
Complaining. And let's be real, college women are not putting up the same weight in the weight room as WNBA women. And there's something about grown woman strength. So the physicality ain't the same, folks. It ain't the same. All right, let's keep it going and we're going to close this out. We have one more block to get through and we're going to have a little fun with some of our favorite games of years.
- [52:42]
A
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B
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- [55:10]
D
People@Servicenow.Com. Okay, so Sylvia, we want to say thank you for writing in for this fun one. And she wrote hi all. I am a relatively new since 2023 WNBA fan and have been super grateful for this show helping me contextualize and go deeper during this past season. Thank you. You're welcome self. Don't worry. We appreciate you. I wanted to ask if the host could share some of their favorite W games of the past 10 seasons. Those available to stream on League Pass. Okay, Sabrina, Diana, I'm gonna go to you first and we'll just bounce.
- [55:55]
E
Around. Yeah. So the most memorable games for me during the past 10 seasons are essentially all playoff games. But I'm gonna start with two regular season games just before we get into all the other ones. I think the game that Diana Tarazi hit 10,000 points is a really fun one in 2023 for the Phoenix Mercury. Just the celebratory nature of all of it and how it happened in a season that was pretty hard for the Mercury. I personally prefer that one to when she actually broke the scoring record, which incidentally happened against the Sparks in a game that they got crushed. Is slightly more entertaining game. And then there is a Seattle Storm Los Angeles Sparks game in the bubble. The only game from the bubble I don't recommend in this entire exercise. That's just one of the best regular season games I've ever seen. Back and forth ends up deciding playoff seating. You know, for that particular season. It's. Yeah, just a very high level regular season game with an awesome.
- [56:44]
D
Finish. Ooh, this is good. Okay, I'm with it. I gotta go. I mean, I have a playoff game as well. 2022 WNBA Semifinals Aces vs. The Storm and this is before Brianna Stewart left. Wait, Sabrina, are you thinking of this game as.
- [57:03]
E
Well? Oh, I love this whole series. It's an incredible series. It's probably my favorite series of all.
- [57:06]
D
Time. Yeah, it's just, it's funny because I think after that series, particularly game three, it was just high drama. It was theater the whole time. But it was Chelsea Gray putting on an unbelievable shooting display. She was. And playmaking display. Like I know people have always called her the point God, but I Feel like that really cemented after that series, you know what I mean? So I think that's available to stream on league.
- [57:33]
E
Pass. It should.
- [57:34]
D
Be. It wasn't that long ago. But I also think it's important to note like this was the last before we saw Briana Stewart shift over to the east.
- [57:42]
E
Coast. Seven number one picks starting for the two teams in that series. Just an unbelievable collection of talent. Becky Hammond's first year in the league. Asia Wilson's, you know, second. Mm. It was Asia Wilson race. Any Asia Stewie moment is great. I have like a few of them on my list.
- [57:56]
D
Too. And Jackie Young with the buzzer beater in game three. I mean there was fucking him.
- [58:02]
E
In ato, you know, just so many good.
- [58:03]
D
Things. Yes, yes. So this was what I really love about this is it was one. We saw the Asia Wilson, Brianna Stewart like battle beginning and really cementing itself as a true little like foe. Just foils between each other. And then we see it now continue within the New York Liberty and the Aces. But that storyline really started there and we saw also the story of the Aces I think really gets cemented in that series. So that whole, if you just want to go watch that series, that will be a really good start. What about you.
- [58:38]
B
Ben? Yeah, I mean, I think I have one game that I think has been kind of lost to history in some respects because we don't talk about that finals as much. But the year before that, the Aces Mercury semifinal series and specifically game five, you know, of that series, it's in Las Vegas. A spot on the finals is on the line. The series was starting. The finals started less than 48 hours after the conclusion of game five. And it's this like unbelievable battle of stars. You have the Aces who very much are still looking for the breakthrough, right? Asia, Jackie, Kelsey Plum, Liz Cambasia is still in that series. Bill Lambert is still coaching the team. The Aces. Aren't the Aces that so many people. No. And they're going up against Phoenix and this is really the, the last huge, huge moment for that Mercury team. Right in that game. Brittney Griner scores 28 points. She blocks Asia Wilson with like less than a second remaining as Asia tries to go for what would have been a game tying layup attempt. Diana taurasi like it's 84, 84 with 24 seconds to go. And Diana Taurasi has the ball in her hands at the top of the key and. And in the end she gets the ball stripped from her. And it's Shea Petty who scores the go ahead points via a free throw. But like you want to think about tense moments, an incredible fourth quarter. Other context is Diana's wife. You know, Penny is set to give birth like any minute, any hour. She gives birth what the next day I want to say. And Taurasi like travels alone back to Phoenix for the finals with her wife having given birth. Like there's just a lot in play, a lot at stake. It's a great game. Would recommend the rewatch on that one. Sabrina, I assume that made your.
- [60:17]
E
List. It's on my list also because Diana at the very end of it tells Penny on the ESPN broadcast hold it in.
- [60:23]
D
Babe. Oh my.
- [60:25]
E
God. Incredible thing to tell your pregnant.
- [60:27]
B
Wife. It was really late. Like that game ended really late on a Friday night. I remember like east coast time. Just a lot of drama. Sabrina, what else was.
- [60:35]
E
Called? More Seattle Phoenix in 2018 Subird vs Diana Tarazzi and their peak of their powers. Not peak of their powers, but the peak of their playoff matchups, the 2016 and 17 finals between the Lynx and the Sparks. So many good games between those. I'd recommend the game ones in both series and the game 5s in both series in particular. This person said they started watching in 2023 so I don't think I need to include Aces, Liberty or Aces or Liberty Lynx I should say from.
- [60:58]
D
Last year and Maya Moore was still playing in that series. I mean it was an insane.
- [61:02]
E
Minnesota Lynx Sparks finals are really I think what sort of restarted the WNBA boom in the 2010s. And then just one more from 2022 Connecticut Chicago in their semifinal in game five. Just one of the more ridiculous endings you're going to see of a playoff game and really almost the end of what could have been a really cool era for the Chicago.
- [61:20]
B
Sky. Yeah, if you want to see offense, maybe not by both teams, that's maybe not the best game to go back and go through because Chicago does not score in basically the final five minutes. But if you want to see spoiler, I think it's okay to spoil some of the I think it's okay to spoil the results here. It's been years and I assume some of our listeners have watched it in real time. But to spoil it, Connecticut basically breaks up a championship team with how they perform in that Game five fourth.
- [61:51]
D
Quarter. My last one, I'll just quickly squeeze in Biggest comeback in WNBA history Chicago sky versus the Aces back in 2022. This is the Chicago sky that you might not know at this point, Syl, because you know the Angel Reese version, but, but this is Allie Quigley, one of the best three point shooters in Chicago sky history. Azrae Stevens is on this team. Cas Parker gets a double double. In that game they were down 28 points and came back to win this game against the Aces. And this is the young Aces. These are like still like they're, they're still developing and getting to their name as well. So definitely a regular season game to go check out as well. All right, y'. All, well, that is all we've got for you today. Thank you for giving us so much to work with with this mailback episode. This was a lot of fun to go through. Just want to wish you all happy holidays. This is going to be our second to last show. We'll be back next Tuesday to wrap up the year with our final episode of 2025. Going to have a lot of accolades to give out, a lot of recognition of the things that have happened over the year. So you do not want to miss it and best way to do that is to subscribe to our show wherever you're listening, whether It's Apple, Spotify, YouTube, subscribe, follow make sure you are ready and set to close out the year and to start up the year, we've got way more to cover on the other side, unrivaled more cba. So make sure you are caught up with everything and reach out to us if you have more questions. No offseason@the athletic.com is our email and of course you can hit us up on socials as well. And last but not least, before we close out the year, we got to make sure Yahoo Sports Hub is the thing too. Go check that out. Sports.yahoo.com womens-sports so on behalf of all you fans that wrote in, we appreciate you for the Athletic Sabrina Merchant, Ben Pick Pickman. I'm Zena Caida thanking you for listening and we'll see you next time. No Off Season is hosted by Zena Cata with Chantelle Jennings, Sabrina Merchant and Ben Pickman. It's produced by Tanika Burrell. Our executive producer is Andrea B. Scott. Our theme music is by Marcus Bagala. Monica Compton is our video editor. Shannon Ryan is managing editor of women's basketball at the Athletic. Jesse Burton is our head of audio and Tim McMaster is director of audio.
- [63:57]
C
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Card. Can I earn 1.5% cash back on Burn Birds? Birds what if you sent your true love two turtle doves, plus a.
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Partridge and a pear.
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Tree? Sure, but why would anyone want.
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That? The song was very.
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Convincing. Earn 1.5% cash back on all your holiday purchases with the Capital One Quicksilver.
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Wallet? Terms apply. See CapitalOne.com for.
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Details. With no fees or minimums on checking accounts, it's no wonder the Capital One bank guy is so passionate about banking with Capital One. If he were here, he wouldn't just tell you about no fees or minimums. He'd also talk about how most Capital One cafes are open seven days a week to assist with your banking needs. Yep, even on weekends, it's pretty much all he talks about. In a good way. What's in your wallet? Terms apply. See capitalone.com Bank Capital One NA Member.
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FDIC Guys, thanks for helping me carry my Christmas.
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Tree. Zoe. This thing weighs a.
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Ton. Kursky, Live with your legs, man.
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B
Santa. Santa, did you get my.
- [65:23]
D
Letter? He's talking to you.
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C
Bro. Bridges, I'm.
- [65:25]
E
Not. Of course he did. Right.
- [65:27]
B
Santa? You know my elf Drew Ski here. He handles the nice.
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C
List. And elf, I'm six' three. What everyone wants is iPhone 17 and at T Mobile. You can get it on them. That center stage front camera is amazing for group.
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Selfies. Right, Mrs.
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Claus? I'm Mrs. Claus's much younger.
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Sister. And at T Mobile there's no trade in needed when you switch, so.
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You can keep your old phone or.
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Give it as a.
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Gift. And the best.
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Part? You can make the switch to T Mobile from your phone in just 15.
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Minutes. Nice. My side of the tree is.
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