Which Conference Really Runs Women's Hoops?

Summary

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No Offseason: The Athletic Women’s Basketball Show

Episode: Which Conference Really Runs Women’s Hoops?
Date: December 9, 2025
Hosts: Zena Keita, Sabreena Merchant, Ben Pickman

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Zena, Sabreena, and Ben dive into a hotly debated question: Which of the Power Four conferences—SEC, Big Ten, ACC, or Big 12—truly "runs" women’s college basketball? The crew tackles recent games, particularly the ACC/SEC Challenge, ranks key programs, spotlights rising and star players, and debates the strengths and weaknesses of each conference as the season heads into league play. They wrap up with a fun basketball connections game focused on rebounding legends.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Sabrina Scale: UCLA, USC & Player Impact

(02:22–15:14)

UCLA vs. Oregon Postgame Analysis

• UCLA Dominance Despite Flaws

  • Sabreena notes Lauren Betts' box stats "undersold how good she’s been" on court, adding,

    “Her finishing was a little all over the place…[but] 21-point victory to open conference play. Exactly what you need out of the Bruins.” (03:54, Sabreena)

  • Zena points out UCLA’s depth, even with rotation absences, and the confidence it brings after a Texas loss.

• Importance of Charlisse Ledger-Walker

  • Ben highlights her on/off splits:

    “UCLA is almost 20 points better per 100 possessions with her on the floor…She’s certainly a player I have my eye on as conference play begins.” (06:00, Ben)

USC vs. Washington Breakdown

• USC’s Defensive Identity

  • Sabreena:

    “Defensively, I think they’re just about as good as anybody…Kennedy Smith is like, among the best wing defenders in the country.” (09:18)

  • Offense remains inconsistent but the defense kept them in games vs. top teams.
  • Zena: Kennedy Smith’s pervasive impact—“She was everywhere on the floor…I think is going to be a contributing factor.” (11:53)

• Washington’s Offensive Struggles

  • Washington’s lowest point total “since last March” (14:16), with starters rushing shots and struggling against USC’s smothering D.

• Gerda Raulshe’s Best Game for USC

  • Called out for what Sabreena says was “her best game of the season,” praising her physicality and efficiency off the bench—a hopeful sign at the post spot.

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2. The ACC/SEC Challenge: Results & Implications

(16:04–26:09)

• SEC’s Increasing Dominance

  • After a 7–7 split in Year 1, this year finished 13–3 in SEC’s favor.
  • Zena:

    “It wasn't really close…outside of that Louisville–South Carolina and Notre Dame–Ole Miss games.” (17:34)

• Moral Victories & Louisville’s Growth

  • Ben:

    “My top-line takeaway...was Louisville, and that is, of course, in a close loss to South Carolina. We’re not talking about wins—we’re talking the value in close losses.” (17:34)

  • Louisville's turnover reduction and improved 3-point shooting highlighted.

• South Carolina’s Bench Concerns

  • Zena notes S. Carolina’s lack of bench minutes: “The winner still had a very prominent issue they’re going to have to address once SEC play starts...the bench just isn’t playing.” (20:28)

• Notre Dame vs. Ole Miss – Coaching Adjustments

  • Sabreena:

    “Really smart coaching adjustment by Coach Yo...they just played bigger...Notre Dame doesn’t have the option to actually bring in more frontcourt players to address that deficit....” (23:35, Sabreena)

  • Cody McMahon’s athleticism and Ole Miss’s attempt at out-rebounding despite poor outside shooting analyzed.

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3. Conference Power Rankings & Lingering Questions

(29:43–55:16)

Basics of Conference Structure

Sabreena explains:

“There are about 30 conferences in Division 1...Power 4 are just deeper, have multiple teams with a chance of making the tournament even if you don’t end up winning your conference.” (30:06)

ACC: Depth Issues

• Sabreena asks,

  “How many ACC teams do you think will make the tournament?” (33:22)

• General consensus: 4–6, with only Notre Dame, UNC, and Louisville as "locks". Sabreena:

  "The depth of the ACC...really is more mid-major-ish these days." (33:29)

• Ben notes:

  “The Big Ten has 11 schools in the top 30 in net rating. The ACC has three.” (34:02)

Big 12: Who’s the Star?

• Ben asks:

  “Is Audi Crooks of Iowa State the best player in the conference?” (39:26)

• Hosts debate Crooks’s historic numbers vs. competition level, with Sabreena adding TCU’s Olivia Miles to the conversation as a “multi-time All American...just one of the finest creators in the country.” (41:12)

Big Ten: Who’s Most Believable—Maryland, Michigan, or Iowa?

• Ben: “Who do you believe in most: Maryland, Michigan, or Iowa?” (47:46)
• Discussion highlights Maryland’s grit, but both Sabrina and Ben “lean Michigan” for their balance, defense, and the star sophomore trio—“Michigan...the only Big Ten school that’s top 10 in both offensive and defensive rating.” (50:54, Ben)
• Zena asks why Nebraska isn't in the mix—Sabreena predicts they’ll prove themselves in conference play.

SEC: Could They Dominate the Final Four?

• Zena wonders:

  “Will the SEC end up with all four spots in the Final Four?” (55:18)

• Sabreena: “UConn exists, so no. But I can talk about three.” (55:39)
• Zena: Texas and South Carolina are locked in, with LSU, Tennessee, or Ole Miss vying for a third spot.
• Ben’s bold take:

  “I think there’s going to be more teams from the Big Ten to make the Final Four than the SEC.” (57:27)

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4. Memorable Quotes & Moments

• Sabreena on SEC’s domination:

  “It wasn’t really a challenge.” (16:30)

• Ben: On moral victories in women's hoops:

  “We're not talking about wins. We're talking the value in close losses.” (17:34)

• Zena: On Audi Crooks’ dominance:

  “She’s literally coming to games and then being like, ‘I'm gonna make reservations for dinner at halftime.’ Don’t worry, guys, I got things to do right after this.” (41:12)

• Sabreena: On ACC’s decline:

  “The depth of the ACC and Big 12 really is more mid-major-ish these days than on par with the SEC and the Big Ten.” (33:29)

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5. Fun Segment: "She Traveled"—Legendary Rebounders Game

(62:29–67:06)

• Zena quizzes Ben and Sabreena on rebounding records, starting with Megan Nestor’s 34 points/31 rebounds and connecting NCAA rebounding greats Lauren Taylor, Courtney Paris, and Angel Reese.

• Sabreena wins with,

  “Courtney Paris was assistant coach on the Chicago Sky [with Angel Reese].” (66:43)

• Ben offers a UConn alternate with Sue Bird, Aaliyah Edwards, Stephanie Dolson, and Tina Charles, humorously noting how many player connections are possible with a legend like Bird.

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Important Timestamps

• Sabrina Scale & UCLA/Oregon recap: 02:22–07:37
• USC/Washington recap: 07:37–15:14
• ACC/SEC Challenge analysis: 16:04–26:09
• Setting up conference questions: 29:43–36:22
• ACC depth debate: 33:22–38:55
• Big 12 star players: 39:26–47:05
• Big Ten contender debate: 47:26–55:16
• SEC Final Four debate: 55:16–60:16
• "She Traveled" connections game: 62:29–67:06

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Takeaways

• SEC currently rules the landscape in terms of team depth and title threats, as seen in their ACC/SEC Challenge blowout.
• Big Ten parity and depth may ultimately send more teams deep into March Madness than the star-studded but possibly top-heavy SEC.
• ACC faces a transition year, with only a handful of bright spots among traditional powers.
• Big 12 boasts remarkable talent, but its major stars (Crooks, Miles) await big-game tests to validate early numbers.
• Player development is central—emerging stars, impact transfers, injury comebacks, and seamless integration have reshaped power rankings across every conference.

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For New Listeners

This episode offers a whirlwind tour of where the women’s college basketball landscape stands as conference play begins—who to watch, which teams really have staying power, & how the balance of power could shift before March. It's an episode for the big-picture thinker who wants both sharp humor and deep analysis.

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Transcript

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Hello everyone and welcome to no off season. I'm Zena Caida.

[Sabrina Merchant]

I'm Sabrina Merchant.

[Ben Pickman]

And I'm Ben Pickman.

[Zena Keda]

And today on the show we're going big picture while diving into the Power Four conferences. We've seen the SEC's dominance, have we? We've seen the Big Ten's high powered scoring, ACC's emerging talent and some big upsets out of the Big 12. But these power conferences are showing up uniquely out on the court and we've got some questions about each of them, especially now with conference play underway. But first, you know it's Tuesday so it is time to get out the Sabrina Scale. Sabrina, you made some moves this week and I want to talk about the that you checked out over the weekend in person. First up, let's start up with ucla. Oregon. They, they took that win pretty decisively against the Oregon Ducks and you've got them in your power rankings holding steady at number four after that 80 to 59 win. Tell me what makes you keep them at four? You got Oregon outside your top 25 still. What were some of the things that you saw for ucla?

[Sabrina Merchant]

Yeah, it's been an interesting Lauren Betts season in that I think her box score stats have sort of undersold how good she's been on the court. You know, I think everything UCLA does still revolves around Lauren Betts being that interior fulcrum that draws the defense in and anchors the defense on the other end of the court. And this was sort of an interesting game because I thought it was the opposite in which Lauren Betts had like fantastic box score line and I thought she was pretty inconsistent over the course of the game. Like her finishing was a little all over the place.

Defensively. You could see a couple situations where UCLA wasn't quite sure of what they were doing in terms of guarding Oregon on the perimeter and what they were willing to concede inside and outside the ark. So it's kind of strange in that situation because you look at Lauren's box score line and it's okay, well, double, double plus 31, three blocks. Everything looks exactly what you expect from a dominant center. And yet our thoughts Rambus from Oregon frustrated her a little bit more than you'd expect in terms of her finishing directly at the basket. And it just wasn't like as you were watching the most dominant game I've ever seen from Lauren. And yet, you know, 21 point victory to open conference play. Exactly what you need out of the Bruins. Like they're operating without two rotation players and still pretty comfortably winning most of their games, obviously, other than the game against Texas. So it's been a successful start of the season for the Bruins, even with Sienna Betz and Tamia Gardner yet to enter the the lineup. So, you know, lots alike about the Bruins. I just think when you're talking about a player like Lauren Betts, who showed us such a high ceiling in her junior season and, you know, is obviously under the scrutiny of these WNBA teams as they make their draft decisions. There's just a lot to, you know, nitpick with Lauren, which I think is going to happen over the course of the year. And for a game that like Oregon wasn't ultimately that competitive in, I think that was, you know, one of the Things that I ended up focusing on more.

[Zena Keda]

What I liked about this game, at least for Lauren Betts, is that she got early touches at the rim. And we saw that in Texas. They did a really great job of disrupting that inside out game and just making it really difficult for the perimeter players to see. And you saw just how big UCLA's guards could be as well as being able to create. I mean Kiki Rice being able to get her assists, you know, Charlize Ledger Walker was creating as well. And so you saw the size that we've seen from UCLA in the past out on the perimeter just as much as we see it internally with Lauren Betts too. And it's a, it's a good win to have. Not going to tell you a ton about ucla, but being able to get them, get that confidence back in them, especially after that, that game against Texas. So I think it's a, it's a good one to, to put in your belt.

[Ben Pickman]

You just started to rattle off some names. Nah. And, and that kind of jogs one of the thoughts that I had coming out of this UCLA Oregon game. And it is who is kind of the most important player to this UCLA team. Like I think you can make a pretty strong argument that it is Lauren Betts. But if you start to dive into some of the number looking post game after, you know, this one wrapped up like Charlize Ledger Walker has the best on off split of any UCLA player this season. I mean especially on the defensive end. UCLA is almost 20 points better per 100 possessions, more than 20 points better per 100 possessions with her on the floor instead of off of it. Number two in their on off split is John and Ekins, right. Both new additions to the Bruins lineup. And you know, some of them, those names that we've seen year after year, the Kiki Rice is the Lauren Betts then follow. I guess I just thought that kind of caught my eye. And someone like Ledger Walker, like we've seen her early on this season, she's able to fill the box score and make an impact in a lot of different ways. Right. Against Oregon it was 8 assists and 10 rebounds. Against what Duke. In Texas it was 13 and 20 points in those games, right. Providing more of an offensive punch like she was a pretty notable transfer when she came in from Washington State. Obviously she then had to rehab her torn acl. And Sabrina, you've been a little bit on an island, I want to say, including her in your mock drafts for this coming really good spring.

[Zena Keda]

She's really good yeah, yeah.

[Ben Pickman]

And it jumps out. And her ability to impact the game in a lot of different ways stands out. And so she is certainly a player that I have my eye on as conference play begins, because I think a lot more people will be talking about her impact come March than maybe we are right now.

[Zena Keda]

Yeah. I mean, Ledger Walker's 10 rebounds, like, you could feel them, like, and you could feel all day long. I mean, UCLA dominated the glass. It was, I think, a joke. I. I think it ended up like 52 to 30 or something like that on the glass.

[Sabrina Merchant]

52 to 29.

[Zena Keda]

Yeah, it was. It was embarrassing just how much Oregon just couldn't get anything. Rambus and Etsute, like, really kind of. They didn't pop until towards the end of the game when the game was kind of out of hand already. So Ledger Walker definitely should be on more people's lists. And I don't know if her injury kind of put people a little bit. You know, she's behind in people's minds from that perspective, but this season is already showing you what she's capable of, so definitely something there to it. Let's keep going, though. With another LA team that took on another former Pac12 team in the Big Ten matchup, USC hosting Washington, the Trojans pulled away decisively in that game. After starting suspect. Okay, it was like, an eight, no start. The Trojans missed, like, their first 11 shots. Um, it was just. They were open. They just weren't connecting on them. Uh, and then they just completely dominated for the rest of the game. Um, Sabrina, you moved them up in your rankings from number 20 to 18. Meanwhile, Washington dropped a few spots, falling from number 14 last week to 20 this week. Basically, they swapped out a little bit to that number 20 spot. What specific aspects of USC's game and in recent games caused them to move upward in your rankings and what contributed to Washington sliding down like that?

[Sabrina Merchant]

Yeah, USC's been a really hard team to gauge because defensively, I think they're just about as good as anybody. You know, like, they are so disruptive on the perimeter with Malia Samuels. Kennedy Smith, I think, is, like, among the best wing defenders in the country, honestly. And then you've got Jazzy Davidson, who's been excellent in helping their interior defense. You know, like, it depends on the matchup if you've got a really strong big that can potentially cause some issues for this particular Trojans team. But, you know, I thought even when they played South Carolina, like, defensively, they were in that game, they just couldn't Score well enough with the Gamecocks. And that's really been. The issue is, like, can the offense find some measure of rhythm at some point in the game, right? And like, we saw against Notre Dame how it just devolved completely in the fourth quarter, which was like, the opposite of when they played NC State. And, like, Jazzy just found some openings in that fourth quarter. Um, obviously against Washington, they put up four points in the first quarter. You know, I was joking that, like, USC has this tradition where they. They stand until, like, a lot of teams, you know, they stand until their team scores the first bucket and the first media timeout hit before they'd actually scored. And then the fans just, like, didn't get back up, right? They're like. They sat during the timeout, like, we're not. We're not doing this anymore.

[Zena Keda]

We're not doing this. Got my workout in. I'm.

[Ben Pickman]

Did you regret going to the game at that point? I mean, or even after the first quarter when it was eight to four? Because we should say this was your second game of the day. You'd watched a lot of basketball, and it's eight, four after one. Are you like, I'm getting in the car. I'm going home.

[Sabrina Merchant]

8 4. You know, honestly, way better than it could have been, considering how USC started the game. Scoring, like, to be fair, Like, I just want to give credit to the Galen center crowd. Like, there's a lot of reasons why USC fans can have turned away from this team this season. You're like, no juju, obviously, like Avery Howell, who plays for Washington now, and Kaylee Heckle transferred out. Like, there's a lot of personnel losses that would make them a little bit sour, I guess, about the state of the team. They have shown up pretty nicely for this team, especially against Washington, which I did not realize they would be so anti Avery Howell. That was a fun little development to uncover as I was in the building for that one. But, yeah, I think the crowd really saved it, other than not being able to stand through the first points, which I'll give them credit. You stand through the first media timeout. I think you've done your job in terms of that tradition. But, yeah, it's not the best game I've seen in person, but there was enough energy in the building to keep me wanting to be there.

[Zena Keda]

Wait, I have a question. Were you at that La Sparks Dallas Wings game, too, where folks had to stay in for a while? Do you remember?

[Sabrina Merchant]

I mean, I've been at a lot of La Sparks style springs games I can't remember in particular which one would have required that.

[Zena Keda]

Yeah, this season When Paige dropped 40, were you there when she was? She had that ridiculous game. Okay, that game too. This is funny. People are having making you stand. I mean, you're media, so you probably.

[Sabrina Merchant]

Not being involved in that tradition.

[Zena Keda]

But anyway, this is second game now that you've had to wait for folks to score or see people wait for folks to score. That's hilarious because the LA Sparks really struggled to score in that game. And then here you go, USC doing the same thing. But I mean, to your point, Kennedy. Kennedy Smith is a. Is a problem. Like she makes winning plays. She her stat line for that game, 13 points, five boards, four assists, two steals, two blocks and has a mini like she was everywhere on the floor. I mean, she, I think is going to be a contributing factor. She last year was dubbed the Juju 2.0. But then you have Jazzy Davidson. You talk about the fourth quarter kind of splits that we've seen from her, but her being able to kind of microwave score in that way. She did that in this game as well at eight points in that fourth quarter unnecessarily in the. So because Washington couldn't find more offense, like El Edeen ends up over 10 from the floor. Like, what do you make of Washington's play and how is this contributing to where they stand now in your ranking?

[Sabrina Merchant]

Yeah, I mean, Washington has dealt with some injuries. Eladin missed the start of the year. She's only been back for a few games, has sort of been ramping up. And frankly, if this is a healthy Elodie and I'm concerned for Washington, I choose to believe that it's not just based on her performance. You know, previous seasons with the Huskies, Hannah Steins also had a bit of an injury in the game that Elle came back. So just managing all of those situations, I think this was an example of this is really the first major opponent in Washington in space. They played Utah earlier this season and that was a game in Utah that I thought was a very important win for them. Just to prove like, hey, we can do this against a power conference opponent. But the rest of their schedule has not been up to snuff. And this was the first team that could really get into them defensively. And you saw that Avery Howell's shots were rushed. Savia Sellers had just a lot of difficulty getting to her spots. She ends the game with 20 points, but it took her 20 shots to get there, right? Yeah, like there was a lot of, you know, Work trying to maneuver around Malia Samuels or around to Kennedy Smith and, you know, whoever ended up taking that matchup. I just thought it was more of a showcase of USC's defense than it was anything else. Like, Washington's offense isn't the best thing they do. Like, they have a nice Princeton setup, but I think they're more of a defensive team. And, like, it was just. They were more suffocated by USC's defense than the other way around.

[Zena Keda]

Yeah, this was the lowest point total that Washington has had since last March. And it was just a lot of. They basically just had a lot of volume. Like, they had to put up a lot of shots to even try and get offense going. One more thing I do want to call out for usc and I'm. I'm really impressed by the announcers being able to say, Gerda, Raul Sheets. I think I hit that. Did I do it?

[Ben Pickman]

That was pretty good. That's not a pretty good.

[Zena Keda]

I appreciate that, Ben. I appreciate that. But I want to particularly call this out because, Sabrina, you're a Ray Marshall fan, um, and being able to try and fill her shoes, like, that's incredibly difficult. And Gerda, eight points, eight rebounds, pretty efficient from the floor. What do you think about her defense, which is what Raya typically, you know, took care of for usc, but she had a really good plus minus as well. What'd you think about her coming off the bench?

[Sabrina Merchant]

Yeah, I thought it was her best game of the season. You know, USC's had this revolving, like, room of posts over the course of the year. Like, they basically settled on four guards, and we're just going to see which big kind of can make things happen. Right. So it's been Vivian Iwakuchu. It's been, you know, Laura Williams, Yakai Milton. Sometimes they sort of have Diana Mendes, like, functioning as, like a stretch big in that situation. Gerda's even started some games, but this was, I thought, comfortably her best game. She just felt her physicality in the middle more than you have against other teams. And I think part of that is Washington doesn't really have a great front court room either. Like, they've got Graviskaya from Michigan who's been fine, and then they have a freshman post to sort of battle with some foul trouble in this game. But it was a good matchup, I think, for USC's front court challenges and one where Gerda was able to, like, exert herself in ways that she couldn't against maybe some more veteran front courts that USC has faced over the course of the season.

[Zena Keda]

That is a great point. It has really been a four guard, one post, like, rotation. And Lindsey Gottlieb is like, y' all just handle things outside. We'll kind of hide a big somewhere in the middle. Okay, well, let's keep it going and wrap it up with the ACC SEC Challenge. And challenge is a funny word. Challenge indicates that there was friction, tension.

[Ben Pickman]

A challenge. It indicates there was a challenge.

[Zena Keda]

That indicates there was a challenge. Exactly. And that is not quite what we saw with this. This lineup here. So the ACC SEC Challenge has been going on for three years. The first year these two conferences went up, they split seven, seven in terms of the final scores between both. The next year, I believe it went 10 and six between the two conferences. And SEC won, but still relatively close. And this year, it's just continued to slide into SEC's favor with a 13, 3 final breakdown between these two. Ben.

We know that the SEC is inevitable. We know that they are so dominant. But outside of really like that Louisville game, the Notre Dame game with Ole Miss, Louisville with South Carolina, Notre Dame with Ole Miss, like, it wasn't really close. It wasn't really close. What'd you make of this, this quote unquote challenge and how SEC took over this year?

[Ben Pickman]

I mean, it's funny that one of the, I guess my top line takeaway or the team that I came away most impressed by was Louisville. And that is, of course, in a close loss to South Carolina. Like, that is what we are talking about here in early December. We're not talking about wins. We're talking about the value in close losses. Also a topic right now. Yeah, moral victory is, you know, big topic in college sports right now. Honestly, with the college football debate going on, like, the value of nothing is what I've understood. Right, Right, Sabrina. We should say Sabrina, a Duke graduate whose Duke football team did not make the College Football Playoff despite winning the ACC championship over the weekend.

[Sabrina Merchant]

That's the state of the acc, is you win the acc, you don't even get invited to the big dance there.

[Ben Pickman]

Honestly, more to come on that and the women's college basketball front later, as in this conversation. But no, Louisville continues, you know, to be impressive, I guess. Like, you know, they started the season with this loss at UConn. And I think some people maybe were thrown off the scent a little bit because there was a moment in that game in which they were down by more than 20 points. And we have seen Yukon be so dominant and Louisville fought its way back in. I think they End up losing by just over 10. I want to say something like 13 in that game. And so like not as a result. This team that was pushing the top 10 or the top 15 for much of, you know, the first part of the season, but they are a much improved team from last year. Number one, they're committing way fewer turnovers than they did a season ago. They were 94th in turnover percentage last year. Now they're down to six nationally. They're also a much improved three point shooting team. They shot just under 32% a year ago. Last year. That's what they're shooting last year. This year they're shooting nearly 37%. And if you look at Ty Roberts, who is their best offensive player, she is an example of a player who we've seen a ton of improvement from on the offensive end. And she has a three pointer that would have potentially won the game against South Carolina in this ACC challenge. That doesn't go but she was four, eight from three in that matchup. And she's gone from being a 31% three point shooter as a freshman to being a 40% three point shooter. Now they have, you know, four players who attempt at least one three per game who are shooting 40% or better from three. That's a huge mark of improvement and just speaks to the depth on this roster. Add in that Jeff Walls, the longtime coach there, throws a lot of junk defenses out can disrupt the pace of a game. Like there's a lot to like about Louisville all told. You know, they might not be a final four team like we saw a couple years ago from the Cardinals, but it wasn't that long ago. They were just penciled them in at the Sweet 16 or the Elite 8. Like that might be this kind of team going forward. Even with, you know, a close loss at home to the Gamecocks, it was.

[Zena Keda]

Tough to see Taj Robert not be able to get a Robert, excuse me, not be able to get that shot in. Especially how hard they fought. There were. They went back and forth. There was over 10 lead changes in this game. There was.

One the biggest thing that as I was watching this game, I immediately thought back to what you were saying, Ben. I believe in our last show about South Carolina, there is no bench presence in South Carolina. Whereas Raina Scott came in off the bench and was killing it against South Carolina. And I 34 bench points for Louisville is where I think they ended up. And then four once again for South Carolina. And even though South Carolina won this game, this was the closest matchup in this ACC SEC challenge where the winner still had a very prominent issue that they're going to have to address once SEC play starts. Right. Because these, this right here was supposed to be like the last few games before you get into your, your conference and you have to battling against some of the biggest and best teams, particularly for those SEC opponents. But South Carolina gets this win and I'm still like, I'm concerned, Sabrina, about how they're going to show up when the likes of Medino caught who was phenomenal in that game and Tessa Johnson, all them have to play 38, 40 minutes every single night in the SEC.

[Ben Pickman]

Don C didn't even give some of her reserves an opportunity to play. And maybe she can say that's earned in practice and earned in other situations. But Tessa Johnson, Ray Johnson, tonight, Latson, they all play at least 38 minutes in this game of Glenn's Louisville. Right. Like, you know, it goes back to some of what we were talking about last week. As you said, Xena, it feels like you want to use some of these early season games to get your players opportunities to play. She clearly does not trust them in close games, highly competitive games yet. Because look at those numbers output. I mean again, the bench minutes, like it's not even that they're not scoring points. They're just, they're not even playing.

[Zena Keda]

They're not even playing. And then they didn't have a gottmikir which that also hurt them just not being able to have the length that she comes in and brings and the activity that she brings. I mean let's not just, let's not just focus on that game. Even though it was a fun and exciting game. There's also the Notre Dame Ole Miss game and this is, this is a cool one. You talked about this a little bit Sabrina, in your Sabrina scale about, you know, the fact that Cody McMahon looks good, like she looks really good, she looks fit, she looks active, she looks very bought in, which is huge for the likes of Cody McMahon to be able to be in Ole Miss system and being able to pop not only from what we know she can do offensively, but of course what Ole Miss likes to do defensively as well. When you think about that game and the fact that Notre Dame got out strong, 19 point lead, 20 point lead in that first half, I believe it was Hannah Hidalgo, 18 points in the first half. I mean this was a dominant Notre Dame game that Ole Miss's defense was able to get them back into this mitts. What'd you make of Ole Miss and their ability to be in this game, be able to get the win, pull it out. Like, how'd this play out for you, Sabrina, as you watch that game?

[Sabrina Merchant]

I just thought it was a really smart coaching adjustment by coach yo in that second half to just realize, like, oh, we're getting beat up on the boards and there's no reason that should happen. Like, we can just play bigger and Notre Dame doesn't have the option to actually bring in more frontcourt players to address that deficit on the glass. So they just played bigger. And you saw, like, Christina Walla, I think, had one of maybe her best game in an Ole Miss uniform getting the game deciding bucket. I think in the fourth quarter there, Cody McMahon just looked so much more athletic than anybody on Notre Dame, which you'd hope is like the only advantage that the Irish have considering their size challenges. But no, she just like gliding past people the way she was able to get to the basket even in the half court. Like, we're not even talking transition. She was just maneuvering her way past defenders against set defenses. I thought, yeah, it's just like the best physically, I think Cody has looked since her freshman year. And she's going to have to look like that against SEC opposition. Like, let's be clear, like, this is a different physicality conference than the Big Ten is. And so it's good that she's already in this level of shape in the early part of the season to set herself up for the sec. Ole Miss is just an interesting team, you know, like, I obviously have been lower on them than the national consensus over the course of the season. I think it's interesting that they've, like, been taking so many three pointers this year. It's very anti cotill. It's very anti sec, frankly. And they're not. They're not really making them. But I think it's an interesting gambit to try to, like, create some space in the lane for what Cody needs to do, for what their bigs need to do. I wonder how much you can commit to that when, like, literally they're making 27% of their pointers. Like, do you want to be taking 30 threes in a game when you're shooting at that percentage?

[Zena Keda]

I don't know.

[Sabrina Merchant]

People say that, like, volume tends to affect defenses more than percentages for individuals. I don't know that that works necessarily for a team, like, more broadly speaking. But I think that the main takeaway for me was like, in that Notre Dame game, just their athletic advantages were so prominently on display and like, I'm still a little confused as to what they're going to do when they don't have those advantages because, like, you know, they respond to that game by losing a Kansas State team in Manhattan on Sunday at the buzzer and like, they're not going to have those athletic advantages against a lot of SEC teams. And so how do you respond when you can't just say like, oh, we're going to play bigger, like, yeah, let's play bigger against Texas. They'll just put Bray Cunningham and Kyla Oldacre in the game and see what happens. Right. So I think it's just, it was a good way to respond against Notre Dame. Like, absolutely. Credit to them for figuring out how to win that specific matchup. I'm still just like not broadly bought into how it's going to work against other opponents.

[Zena Keda]

Yeah, Notre Dame ended up being the third ranked opponent to fall in the ACC SEC Challenge and the ending of that game was weird. Hannah Hidalgo being ejected for taunting, which is interesting. I thought it was ironic because we know Cody McMahon has been that person as well in the past of taunting and, and getting in the heads of her opponents. So interesting closeout for Notre Dame. They did go on and beat the brakes off of Florida State to kind of bounce back for that game. But overall, the ACC has a lot of questions to ask themselves before they go into conference play and then particularly as they look towards March. Okay, Sabrina, scale was a little long this week, but we had a lot of games. There's a lot of things to cover, so let's keep it moving into our conference questions right after this break.

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[Zena Keda]

Okay, so now we're going to turn our attention to the Power Four conferences. The ACC, the Big Ten, the Big E, C, R, I P, Pac 12. But that's okay. We're going to move into it and we're going to dive into some of the major questions that we've got looming over each one. So before we dive in though, Sabrina, why are we asking these questions? Give us a little bit more background on conferences in general.

[Sabrina Merchant]

Right. So There are about 30 conferences in Division 1. When we talk about the NCAA tournament, each of them gets one automatic bid to the NCAA tournament. That's why you know Conference championship week is so much fun because a lot of these conferences are playing for that one automatic bid and nobody else is going to make it to the NCAA tournament. But there's basically a gradation of how the conferences go. You've got what are called the Power 4 conferences, which used to be the Power 5 again, RRP, PAC12, and those are the ones that are a little bit deeper, have multiple teams that have a chance of making the tournament even if you don't end up winning your conference. Then you have the mid majors, which are maybe a couple teams are going to make the tournament, but on balance aren't the same type of revenue behemoths that the power conferences are. And then you have the much smaller conferences which are just the automatic bid conferences, as we refer to them. One team is going to make the tournament, whoever makes their conference championship. And before we get to December and January, these teams all are playing one another during non conference play. Everybody's mixing and matching and all up on everybody's schedules. Once we start conference play, then you're basically focused on pretty much just the teams in your conference until the season ends, with one or two exceptions for like rivalry games or specific national TV showcases. UConn generally takes part in a lot of these. But yeah, it's. We're basically. Once we turn the calendar to January, it's going to be exclusively conference play until the tournament. So this is a nice time to just sort of figure out where we are with conferences with some data from non conference before we like get really into the meat of league play.

[Ben Pickman]

Cool.

[Zena Keda]

Let's get into it. We just finished the, you know, ACC SEC challenge conversation and I want to start with the accent. Okay. Of course there's been a lot of, I wouldn't say bright lights. It's kind of like dark spotlights on the fact that the ACC's major opponents or major teams have just not been shining as bright as they have in the past and we're not sure where the ACC is going to end up. I think one of the biggest question marks that coming into this season for me, I thought Duke was going to be phenomenal and we just haven't quite seen that out of their team. Course Notre Dame has had some interesting losses. We just talked about the one against Ole Miss. But there's also been some emerging talent. There's been some new faces coming into the acc. That's really exciting. I mean, I watched that Stanford Tennessee game and I literally was like, yes, I'm so happy that everyone's Getting to see what Stanford has done to retool themselves after losing the talent they've had in the past. And we know everyone's always expected, you know, the big talent, bigs, literally bigs on the, on the farm from Stanford. And you got to see the likes of Nunu Aguera, who's been phenomenal for Stanford, be flanked by Alex Eschmeyer, by, I always say this wrong. Lara Somfai. There we go, Lara Somfai. The new guards that they've got around. I mean Talano Lopolo being back in the mix, but then also Haley Swayne. Like there's a lot of talent in Stanford, but there's a ton of new faces all around the acc. So Sabrina, I'm going to throw it to you around the acc. I feel like you're on the same page as me, but what's your question for that conference?

[Sabrina Merchant]

I think my question was a little bit more negative than the spiel that you've just given. But what I want to know is.

You know, it's funny that we call these the power four conferences because there seems to be a clear delineation to me between the SEC and Big Ten and then the other two, you know, the depth of the ACC and the Big 12 really is more mid major ish these days than on par with the SEC in the Big Ten. And to that note, what I want to know is how many ACC teams do you think will make tournament this year? Because this is an 18 team conference, it is a major conference, so to speak. So you would expect 8ish teams to get a bid. But just based on the way the teams have performed so far, how many do you think we're looking at for the 2026 NCAA tournament?

[Ben Pickman]

I think you can write, you can write Notre Dame in, I think you can write UNC in, I think you can write Louisville in. I think those are your clear write ins. And then I think there's a gap. Honestly, Sabrina, like, I think there's a lot of other teams that I, I think we'll probably make it in NC State. You know, Syracuse is off to a good start this year. We'll see. Virginia, we'll see. Stanford, we'll see. But like, and maybe you have some more thoughts too. The ACC used to have just a perennial top 10 team week after week after week. And we know that because earlier this season the ACC ended its run of having an AP team. 453 straight weeks they had a team in the top 10. They don't okay anymore that ended earlier this year. And if you just compare them to some of the other conferences, it's pretty Stark. The Big Ten has 11 schools in the top 30 in terms of net rating. The ECC has three. Sabrina, how many do you think are going to make the tournament? I just, I agree with you on.

[Sabrina Merchant]

The, I mean I'm sitting over at like five and a half.

[Ben Pickman]

Yeah.

[Sabrina Merchant]

You look at the teams that even won games in the SEC ACC challenge and that's Syracuse, Virginia Tech and smu. And I'm not certain, like Ben, you've mentioned that Syracuse had a good start. I'm not certain any of these three teams even make the tournament. Right. Like those are teams that like barely factor into the SEC ACC conversation and those are the only wins that the ACC could hold on to. You know, I think you didn't include Duke on like the list of teams that made the tournament. Yeah, we've been very down on Duke so far. They've lost six games against teams that are just no brainer tournament teams probably. So I'm not as like worried about their prospects once they start playing in some conference games. They've looked a lot better in the last week and a half or so, but I'm not worried about them missing the tournament is what I should say. But like hosting, I don't know if they made themselves a conversation for that this year. Yeah, I think you look at the Carolina schools, you look at Notre Dame probably making the tournament unless the bottom fouls out. Like let's say Hannah Hidalgo gets injured mid season. Like is that a tournament team? Probably not. So it's, it's just a weird conference to look at considering like.

Multiple Sweet 16 teams last year, Final Four team in 2024, like three first round draft picks in the WMA draft this year. There's just, you're used to a lot more talent at the peak of the ACC and whether this is a transitional year or like a harbinger of things to come because again, I've been spending a lot of time thinking about the ACC in the broader college sports context the past few weeks. Weeks, I don't know. But it's not, not a great time to be an ACC sports fan here.

[Ben Pickman]

I was going to say, Sabrina, what's. What's better, ACC football right now or ACC women's basketball?

[Sabrina Merchant]

I mean, at least ACC football has a college football representative. Just the one.

[Zena Keda]

At least I mentioned that Sanford Tennessee game because it is probably the only game that we've seen so far that made them look like, okay, they can still compete. I mean in that game they had 30 turnovers against a very capable, very tenacious Tennessee defense. That picked it up, especially when they were struggling to score. They were able to start getting points in transition because of those turnovers. But even with those turnovers, Stanford was still able to shoot outside, be able to get offensive rebounds and put backs. They were able to withstand that. And if they're able to clean that up against bigger opponents, particularly throughout the ACC play, I can see their freshmen continuing to get better and better with each game and being able to put up a good showing when it comes time. But that only gives me four. And I wonder if Duke is going to start putting it together. I mean even Ashlyn Jackson is like in post game comments has said like we've been playing bad and we've not been playing Duke basketball. Like we've got to get it together and pick it up. I'm paraphrasing here, but I think that they, they're probably going to, you know, finally start turning a corner at some point in sec, excuse me, ACC play because they've had some, some tough opponents as well in their non conference play.

[Ben Pickman]

Just going back to Stanford too. I mean, one of the big reasons we're even having this conversation is because of where Stanford currently stands in the national conversation, right? Like you think about Stanford's legacy, right? And you think about what Stanford women's basketball traditionally means, the success that they've had. Just we used to just, you know, write them into the top five to open a season, write them into the top 10 to open a season, write them into the, you know, the Final four, the Elite eight, et cetera. And after missing the tournament last year, again being part of this rebuilding process, they are not there yet. And so you look at this conference top to bottom and a like a true power in the way that there are, you know, there's multiple powers and part of this is realignment reasons. But there are multiple powers in the Big Ten, there's multiple powers in the SEC. Stanford on paper historically should be that in the ACC now obviously formally in the PAC 12, but they aren't. And that is a big gaping hole when you think about the strength of this conference as it currently stands.

[Zena Keda]

Yeah, ACC's got too many teams still either rebuilding, retooling, still trying to figure out rotations. There aren't really the same level of dominant point guards and floor setters. I think in the ACC that we're seeing in other conferences. There's a lot of question marks in that One. So let's continue our question asking for our next conference. And with that, Ben, I'll turn to you. Which conference do you have a question about?

[Ben Pickman]

I think let's build up maybe to the best two conferences. So I'm gonna then go with the Big 12 with a. That I've been thinking about next because I think they are the third overall in this and that is very simply is Audi Crooks of Iowa State. Is she the best player in the conference?

[Zena Keda]

Ooh.

So my thought around this is as Sabrina beautifully laid out in her Sabrina scale. You cannot deny the stat lines that Audi Crooks has put up right, like 40 point games twice this season already. And also the efficiency in time being able to put up those type of numbers that she's putting up night in, night out in 20 minute games. This is a side venture for her. Like she's literally coming to games and then being like, I'm gonna make reservations for dinner at halftime. Don't worry guys, I got things to do right after this. We're gonna get this dub and we're gonna be out. But the issue though is she hasn't quite played anybody. And that's the thing about Iowa State. They're 10 and oh, and they haven't played any one of significance. Meanwhile, I won't forget what was a 24 point performance from Talia Scott out of Baylor, right, to start the season and then a 32 point performance against Utah from Talia Scott out of Baylor. Like they've been playing. Baylor's been playing some tough competition games of consequence, more so than Iowa has. Iowa State has. And so I'm looking and I'm wondering the only person that could even come close to battling Audi Crooks for who is the best player in the Big 12 to me is Talia Scott. But I think Audi's got it just because it's surreal numbers. I don't know who else is putting up these type of numbers around the country and the efficiency.

[Sabrina Merchant]

There was only one other person to put in this discussion with Audi Crooks and it was not Talia Scott. It was Olivia Miles who had another nice big round number performance this weekend too. You know, 15 points, 10 rebounds, 11 assists to get that triple double against UTEP over the weekend. So I mean, I know a lot of obviously this is a college basketball podcast right now, but a lot of WNBA scouts are taking a very close look at Olivia Miles, what she can do at the next level. I think it's possible she's the best point guard in the country. I Mean, maybe she's not even the best point guard in Texas, depending on how you feel about Rory Harmon debates we had there. But Olivia Miles, you know, multi time all American, has led a lot of very successful teams at Notre Dame, is doing that same thing again at TCU this year. Just one of the finest creators in the country. And.

When she's on it just looks prettier in a way than a lot of players can't quite put together. I think she's the one to me that would be in conversation with Adi. Obviously she's not gonna put together the box score numbers that Audi Crooks is because she just doesn't frankly have the ball in her hands the same way. She's not finishing plays in the same way that Adi is. But what she can do to create for her teammates, that's. That's pretty impressive.

[Zena Keda]

That's true. I definitely forgot about Olivia Miles. That's a really great point. And I'm also forgetting my Big 12 teams, maybe like what's happening. But yeah, no, I mean, Ben talking about Olivia Miles, that. Now that you put that out there, Sabrina. Yeah, there's. I don't even know if Talia Scott bothers into the conversation now. Thank you for clearing that up. You're right, you're right. It's an all around thing though for you, Ben.

[Ben Pickman]

Right? Yeah. I mean the juxtaposition, I think between TCU and Iowa State is the thing that really stands out to me because they, both of those players, Miles and Crooks create easy opportunities for their teams in different ways. Right. You think about Iowa State and how they score. They averaged less than six bass break points per game. Right now a crazy stat is just around 2% of their points come in transition. Compare that with TCU where nearly 25% of their points come in transition. They're averaging more than 20 fast break points per game. And a lot of that is again because of the pace they play and because now that you have a lead guard like Miles, you can get up and down and not only score, but find teammates in transition. Iowa State with Crooks like Sabrina mapped it out very nicely in her power rankings this week. I mean, there's a ton of just crazy efficient numbers that she has about how she's scoring around the basket. I don't know if you want to weigh in with any of them, Sabrina, but like, like one of the things that stuck out to me too in just again, Washington Crooks this season. And Zena, you mentioned some of those crazy stat lines is like she again is averaging more than a point per minute right now while leading the country in scoring. Right. She's averaging more than 27 points per game. She's not even playing 25 minutes per game. And you know, I went back and looked this up like the nation's leading score in women's college basketball has never averaged point per minute played at least since 2000, 2001, which was as far back as I could find minute totals on college basketball references. So, you know, at least over the last 25, 26 seasons, like, she's doing something we haven't seen before. Now, of course, you guys both mentioned it at the start of this conversation on the Big 12, like they haven't exactly played formidable foes. And I think you can expect her minutes to go up and her points to go down as the season progresses, but it just speaks to how efficient she's been. She's really tough to stop. She does it in a different way. Like, I still think you probably end up wanting a lead ball handler like Miles as maybe the best or the most important player in this conference. But. But like I was State's defense not as elite as others. But Crooks efficiency on the offensive end really does cause a lot of matchups. They are really dangerous because of her.

[Zena Keda]

Yeah, I mean, Crooks gravity is unmatched. And I just don't know the question I get the most when I talk to folks about, you know, Audi Crooks. I've had so many people tell me that, like they are, they are playing their highlights for their daughters, her highlights for their daughters, so that they're like, this is how you play efficient basketball. You get down to the post, you seal, turn over every shoulder and be able to finish at the rim. Like, she is so efficient in her game. And it's like people are asking me like, why don't they send more double teams at her. And I wanted to pose that question to you, Ben. Like, when you think about team scheming to stop out Audi Crooks and what is going to happen when Big 12 Conference play starts, can you imagine? There's going to be a lot more double teams, a lot more coverage around, stopping her and pushing her outside the paint before she gets positioned.

[Ben Pickman]

Oh, definitely. And I think that's part of kind of what we're waiting to see. Whether that's double teams or whether that is just having players who can match up better in terms of physicality than a lot of the teams that they've played so far. I mean, again, like, not a lot of the programs that Iowa State has faced right now have players of the height or strength that Audi Crooks presents. Right. That's like, partly why, again, she's been so dominant. Mercyhurst, Valparaiso, like, no slight to Northern Illinois, but these aren't exactly, you know, these are not major power conference schools. Yeah. I mean, no personal. No personal slight to any of those schools. Right. But I'm sure, you know, they're great places to play. But like, that's part of this. Right? That's. That's why, as Sabrina puts out, Marty Crook's able to make 83% of her field goal attempts within the restricted area. Like, they just don't have anyone who can guard her. And, and again, that's not to say that TCU or Baylor has someone who exactly, you know, can guard her overall, but we talk about it with TCU like, you know, the, the height. Right. The. The length that some of their bigs have. Right. Like Silva being 67 and Martas Juarez too. Yeah. We're not seeing that kind of size and length and physicality from the opponents that they've placed so far.

[Zena Keda]

Alrighty. Well, thank you for reminding me that TCU is in the Big 12. And you know what? I'm still going to give out love to Leah Scott because I really do like her game. But let's keep it moving and let's talk a little bit about the Big Ten before we get to the sec. So Sabrina, Ben, which one of you guys have a question for the Big Ten?

[Ben Pickman]

I also have a question for the Big Ten. We've already talked about ucla, so we're going to exclude UCLA from the conversation because I think we've talked about them and what we think of them. The most talked about west pack a Big Ten. Yeah, we've talked about the West. We want to give 10 West.

[Sabrina Merchant]

We've given a big shout out to already.

[Ben Pickman]

Let's talk about some of the teams that are. Yeah. Either traditional Big Ten powers or another former acc, now Big Ten team, and that is the teams of Iowa, Maryland and Michigan. They are all either in or just on the outskirts of the AP top 25. Sabrina and I in both of our respective top 10 polls. Top 25 polls this week we both have them in the top 10 or we have all three of those schools, rather in the top 10. I'm going to say for context and then I'll say the question that the Big Ten this week match the AP top 25 women's basketball record with nine teams ranked in the top 25. So we talk about depth of conference. Throw that out there. But my question is this. Who do you believe in most? Maryland, Michigan or Iowa?

[Zena Keda]

Oh, that's tough. I mean, you guys knew, I think when we made our, like, hot takes, pod Maryland was. I was thinking, they're not going to drop out of the top 10 this season. Now, losing Kaleen Smichel, that could be difficult to do. But having the game that they had against Minnesota, despite that and. Right. Double overtime, just. I mean, it was. And it was beautiful, too, with Sailor Poffenberger, the senior that's been with this team, being able to, like, kind of lift them to victory in that second overtime. I mean, poor Minnesota having to be on the other end of that. But overall, I think that Maryland, there's a grit about them. They already are stacked with talent, but there's a grit about them that I think elevates them over the other two that I've seen so far. So I'm still gonna stick with my Maryland girls. The Terrapins, they're doing their thing. Yeah.

[Sabrina Merchant]

I think the numbers like Michigan the best, and it's not even just, like, a question of schedule because they've played UConn, and I imagine UConn throws your numbers out of whack when you play them. But the Wolverines were obviously able to keep the game pretty close with UConn in that fourth quarter, you know, losing in that final possession, really. So.

[Zena Keda]

And beating the brakes off of Notre Dame.

[Sabrina Merchant]

Right. Which, you know, apologies, I don't mean to, like, pile on for Notre Dame fans who have had a hard weekend here, but, like. Like, I don't know how much that means these days.

[Zena Keda]

Yeah.

[Sabrina Merchant]

But, yeah, Michigan, like, statistically, like, their. Their net rating is just off the charts. It's like plus 53, you know, compared to lower numbers for Iowa and Maryland. They obviously have just that tremendous offensive firepower in that sophomore class of Olivia Olsen, Mila Holloway and Silas Swords. You know, I do worry a little bit just, like, what happens when they have to face, like, a really difficult front court option. But, you know, if they could handle what UConn presents, like, maybe I shouldn't worry about that too much. And I think they're just really well coached with Kim Barnes and Rico. So.

Like, my heart really wants to go with Iowa just because I like the way they play and, like. But, you know, Michigan has a better defense, they have a better offense. Like, they have a trio that's been together, you know, like, this is their second year together. And I think what they've proven already in their schedule is just more impressive than what the other two have. So yeah, I'll go with Wolverines.

[Zena Keda]

Are we going to be split?

[Ben Pickman]

Well, we're going to split a little bit, but we're not going to pick all three because I also leaning now I'm not going to take Iowa here. I'm also going to lean on Michigan though. I think we should say before, you know, I throw some more Michigan stuff on Iowa at Iowa State this Wednesday night, seven Eastern Game of the week. I mean we've spent, I think we talked about it a little bit last week with the matchup between Ava Haydn, who's had a really great sophomore season, one of the best interior post players that we've seen in the country. Again against Audi Crooks, who we just spent however many minutes talking about. You should circle that one, watch that game at 7pm on Wednesday. But that being said, I also have Michigan as the team that I believe in the most in. Again, call me bias a little bit for having watched Michigan go up against UConn in person and still having that game resonate in my mind. But their ability to start slow, to look rattle, to throw out a junk defense, to having not played it before, to play it, you know, at a elite level, to disrupt one of the country's juggernauts or the juggernaut right now in women's college basketball and take that game down to the wire. I mean that was a game where, you know, Silas Ward's, she looked like the best player, one of the five or 10 best players in the country. But what is so interesting is if you look at some of the advanced analytics right now, like in terms of win shares, she's the number three on Michigan's roster in terms of overall win shares behind Olivia Olson and Mila Holloway. Like Olivia Olson in terms of players in the Big Ten Conference, the other sophomore guard or another of the sophomore guards, she Olson is the only player in the conference who is top 10 in both offensive and defensive win shares in the entire conference, which I find really impressive. And if you look at it nationally, Michigan, the only Big Ten school that is in the top 10 of both offensive and defensive rating in CBB analytics and metric. So to me they are still the, you know, of those three, they are the team that I believe the most in Maryland. I think you make a really good case, Xena and their win over Minnesota was very impressive. But I can also argue probably shouldn't have been that close. And you threw out some of the injury concerns too. So that Looms large. Like, if you told me Michigan ends up winning this conference come, you know, come February, I wouldn't be totally shocked if they and not UCLA even, you know, tops the conference.

[Zena Keda]

Yeah, the great case for Michigan is just how balanced they are. I mean, there's always the conversation about the fact that everyone's on, like, the same size, does the same thing, and it's just a big motion of the same person just rolling around with Silas Swords kind of running that motion. But, yeah, I can't get past what the Terrapin, I'm gonna say my girls, the Terrapins, did. I mean, and I also wanna say, too, it is very impressive how they've been able to incorporate their new faces. Yarden, Gazon, Oluchi, Okonoma. Like, they. They've been able to get their transfers into the mix really seamlessly for their first year already. Now, the question that is looming large here. We ain't said Nebraska. Why are we not including them in this conversation? I'm very curious. That's another question I would pose to the both of y'.

[Sabrina Merchant]

All. That is a great question.

Probably just because of some preseason anchoring that had the other teams a little bit higher start the season.

[Zena Keda]

Okay.

[Sabrina Merchant]

Yeah. Nebraska. Super fun to watch. Brit Prince, when you talk about those amazing sophomores in the Big Ten, like Ava Hayden, like, the Michigan trio, you got to put her in that list. She's just absolutely crushing it. They had an awesome second half against Penn State the other day. Just have been wrecking most of their other opposition. I think, to me, it's more just like you've seen some, like, bigger profile games for the other three teams so far that I just haven't seen Nebraska play yet. And, like, that's coming because we're getting into the Big Ten schedule. Like, these things will start happening. So it's more of a schedule function than anything. But, yeah, I agree. Like, Nebraska has. They have the horses, right? Like, you know, 20 plus points from my Hargroves. Having a nice season so far. Like, she was just absolutely on fire against Penn State. But, yeah, I think. I think to me, it's like a scheduled conversation. And part of that.

[Zena Keda]

Okay, okay. Perfectly fair. Just want to make sure the Cornhuskers got a little bit of respect on our pod. Of course. Okay. Do we have any questions left for the Big Ten?

[Ben Pickman]

No, I think we keep it moving in the sec, Zena.

[Zena Keda]

Okay. It's time for the dominant team to dominate the conversation. Excuse me. The dominant league in the sec. It feels inevitable. I don't know. If that's the question, is the SEC inevitable? Actually, my question is, will the SEC end up with all four spots in the final four?

[Sabrina Merchant]

I mean, UConn exists, so no. But I can talk about three.

[Zena Keda]

Three out of four. Three out of four, right, exactly. So how is this all going to play? They end up taking three out of four spots in the Final Four. Ben, I'll start with you.

[Ben Pickman]

So the three would be South Carolina. That's who I assume you're writing in.

[Sabrina Merchant]

Texas, to me, is the one I'm writing in Texas.

[Ben Pickman]

Yeah, Texas is the. Right, Exactly. Okay.

[Zena Keda]

I'm riding in those two for sure.

[Ben Pickman]

And then your third is fill in the blank.

[Zena Keda]

Tennessee, Ole Miss, lsu. Like those three to me could do it, actually. LSU first, Tennessee second for me, and then Ole Miss after that.

[Ben Pickman]

No. Love Oklahoma. There's another.

[Zena Keda]

I already told you how I feel about Oklahoma. I feel like SEC will expose them.

[Sabrina Merchant]

Mikayla Blake gets a little hot and she's been having a good season. Maybe Vanderbilt.

[Zena Keda]

Vanderbilt makes a little ride. Very true. Yeah, that's the problem. Do you see what we're laying out here? This is the issue, y'. All. At any point, any of these teams, the depth of the sec, any of these teams could pop up and find their way on a run. And it will be so funny because we can't call Vanderbilt getting through the tournament a Cinderella run. That would be ridiculous to do. But there's a possibility here that especially by the time that the season ends and they start laying out who's going to be where within the different brackets, the types of wins that these teams are amassing and where I think some of the teams that they've played will end up by the end of the year. Like SEC will have won some notable games, not only against each other, but against some other teams in their non conference play. And it feels a little inevitable that we might end up with an SEC championship, but at least an SEC dominant Final Four.

[Ben Pickman]

I'm going to throw a take out there. I think there's going to be more teams from the Big Ten to make the Final Four than the sec.

[Sabrina Merchant]

Ooh, the Final Four than the sec.

I mean, the way I see it is it's got to be like two versus one because Uhan is making the Final Four.

[Zena Keda]

Yeah, uconn's in there.

[Sabrina Merchant]

There are three spots at it.

[Ben Pickman]

Sabrina does a great job of taking my dramatic pauses and my dramatic takes and just breaking down very simply into, okay, so you think one more team would win.

[Sabrina Merchant]

So two Big Ten teams and one SEC Team. Yeah, this one, I think I'd be more surprised than not if Texas missed it, than if they made it. Like, I think this team is just really good. So we're basically saying we think South Carolina is going to miss it. Which, you know, we've talked a lot about their depth and like one ill timed injury or foul trouble situation could really screw them in a way that it hasn't been able to in years past. Two Big Ten teams, I guess ucla, three that we just talked about. You think any of them could make the final?

[Ben Pickman]

Yeah, I think, I mean, I picked UCLA to win the title heading into the season.

[Sabrina Merchant]

Oh, right, we're still on that.

[Ben Pickman]

So I certainly can't jump off that bandwagon of predictions now. And I think Michigan has, does have the pieces legitimately to make it to the Final Four. And I don't think they're going to be faced in important situations and they have the depth and I think they have the scoring ability. So, you know, if I'm going to plant another flag in early December, I'll plant that flag now. I mean, the top line talent of the SEC though, is, is so strong.

[Sabrina Merchant]

Right?

[Ben Pickman]

I mean, I think think you say three teams like going back to it. You rattled off all these schools top to bottom. They're still the best conference right now in women's college basketball. I mean, you look at some of the teams that like we don't spend a lot of time thinking about or talking about the Alabamas, Georgia. Right. I mean those teams are Kentucky. We could keep, again, we could keep rattling off programs like these. Those very much are in the wait and see category right now nationally about are they like, where do they stand? Because if you look at again their records or you look at some of the analytics so far, like some of those schools have been as impressive as anyone in the country. There's very few. Like the winning percentage right now in the SEC is, is almost 90%. They're 140 and 17 overall nationally. Now they have played some like, again, some cupcake games that they've beaten up on this conference. Yeah. But still like super impressive. Three just feels a little high to me going back to the, the question you throw out, you know.

[Zena Keda]

Okay, all right, all right. Perfectly fair. The new one is I'm, I'm curious about this Big Ten having more presence than the sec.

[Ben Pickman]

We'll talk through that one at a later date too.

[Zena Keda]

Yeah, at a later date. At a later date. All right, guys, we, we answered a lot of our questions. Feel like there's Still a lot of lingering thoughts though. Of course conference play will help us answer these questions, but let us know if there's anything that's kind of brewing in your head as you see these teams ramp up their conference play and get ready to make a run towards March. But for now, let's close it there and we've got a game on the other side of this break.

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[Zena Keda]

Okay, so for this last part of the show, we're doing a quick little game that you guys have heard us do before called she Traveled, where we get from one player to another player utilizing a set of facts or connections between the two. But this one's going to be a little bit different because it's going to be to be based on a stat and it's going to continuously be based on stats that's going to eventually get us from a college player to a current WNBA player. Not sure if you guys saw this stat over the course of the weekend and I'm telling you Guys, when I read it, it literally made my mouth drop. I had to ask myself, is this player, Was this player playing alone when she accomplished this feat? It was North Texas's Megan nestor. She got 34 points and 31 rebounds this weekend, making her the third person in NCAA history to get a 30.30 rebound game, the first one in North Texas.

She played netball her whole life. Didn't even play basketball until college. And it made me start thinking about rebounding statistics and figuring out some of the historical aspects of the women's game, particularly. So we're going to get through some players that have made history in this category and we're going to end up again, from Megan Nestor to another legendary rebounder in women's basketball. So, first question. Last year, a Division 2 player who has since transferred to a Division 1 school set the record for the most rebounds in a women's game. What was the record number of rebounds she had? Or if you can't figure out what that number is, do you know her name or the schools that she went to or now attends?

[Sabrina Merchant]

I got nothing done.

[Ben Pickman]

Is pass an option? Xena, I'd like to pass if that's. Can I phone a friend?

[Zena Keda]

So the number is. I figured this is like a. I had to look this up. This is a crazy one. So I figured this was gonna be hard. It's gonna get a lot easier for you guys after this. But the person's name is Lauren Taylor. She went to Francis Marion, Division 2 school. She has since transferred to Florida Gulf coast, where she is now playing. She is second. She has the second most rebounds in all NCAA history in terms of the 44 in that single season game. And the person that has the first and the still holds the record from 1953 is a guy named Bill Chambers who grabbed 51 rebounds for William and Mary back in the day. So she's number two behind all NCAA players in the history of the game. Now, keep the idea of Florida Gulf coast in your mind because it might make you think of the answer to the next question. Who set the NCAA record number of rebounds in a game by one team? And it happened just last year during the tournament and it happened to be against Florida Gulf Coast.

[Sabrina Merchant]

Was it like, I think they played Oklahoma. I don't know if that was last year or the year before.

[Ben Pickman]

Yeah, they always play Oklahoma.

[Zena Keda]

They do, they really do. So the answer Is they had 72, like, numbers of rebounds. Excuse me, 72 rebounds. Oklahoma Sooners in their first game against Florida Gulf Coast. And, you know, maybe this is why Florida Gulf coast coast decided to go get Lauren Taylor after they got routed by the Sooners last year in the tournament. Now think, thinking of. We know we're at Florida Gulf coast now we've gone to Oklahoma Sooners. Keep that top of mind for the next question. Who sits at the top of the NCAA total rebounds list, like, ever, ever for women's basketball?

[Sabrina Merchant]

So Courtney Paris.

[Zena Keda]

Boom. Easy, easy money right there. Sits at the top. And she's only the. She's currently the only person right now to have two NCAA rebounding totals in the top 10. Okay. All time. She is unreal. And now to get to our last person in the she traveled. We've gone from Megan Nestor to Lauren Taylor to Florida Gulf coast and Oklahoma to Courtney Paris. And we've got to get to one more player who's active right now in the W. Who is the only active WNBA player in the top three of the NCAA's single season rebounding totals.

[Sabrina Merchant]

List.

[Zena Keda]

Rem. Last person who you traveled with.

[Sabrina Merchant]

Oklahoma. Yeah. Courtney Paris. So then Angel Reese.

[Zena Keda]

Yes. And why is she connected to Angel Reese?

[Sabrina Merchant]

Courtney Paris was an assistant coach on the Chicago Sky.

[Zena Keda]

There you go. You know. You know what? Florida Gulf coast was a minor hiccup. Excuse me, Laura. Really? It was Lauren Taylor now of Florida Gulf Coast. It was a minor hiccup, but you guys got it really nicely after that. From Megan Nestor to Angel Reese all through the beautiful sport of rebounding within basketball. Basketball. Well done, guys. Well done. What'd you think about that? Pretty good.

[Ben Pickman]

Different approach than what I have. One very different approach. If you'd like to hear about what I. Yeah, it was. If you'd like to hear my approach. I also jumped off a news item from this weekend that was Sue Bird and her number 10 getting retired at UConn this past weekend. And I thought about Sue Bird and another former UConn Husky who was back on campus. We saw a very endearing clip of Gino Auriemma reflecting on Paige Becker's and Aaliyah Edwards Edwards returning. And so mine is very simple. It is just, how do you get from. Again, this is WNBA Sue Bird, who's number 10 again, just retired to Aaliyah Edwards with only two players with two players in between, both of whom went to UConn.

[Zena Keda]

Stephanie Dolson is somewhere in there, definitely.

[Ben Pickman]

And if you. If you include Stephanie Dolson, are we.

[Sabrina Merchant]

Counting, like, people who played at UConn or, like through the WNB?

[Ben Pickman]

I am talking about people in the WNBA who also attended UConn.

[Sabrina Merchant]

Okay, okay.

[Zena Keda]

Gotcha Aaliyah Edwards. Okay, so I know going backwards, Aaliyah Edwards played with Stephanie Dolson, Stephanie Dolson played with Brianna Stewart, and Stewart played with Stewart on the Olympics team.

[Ben Pickman]

Well done, Xena. There it is.

[Sabrina Merchant]

I was actually just gonna go play. Aaliyah Edwards played with Tina Charles this year who played with Sue Bird in Seattle. So o see, look at you.

[Ben Pickman]

There were a lot of, there were a lot of you machinations. There were a lot of, like, player machinations you could have done because anytime you involve Sue Bird and she plays 20 years.

The reason why I included Aaliyah Edwards, too, also, she was born in 2002. That's the first season in which Sue Bird played in the wnba.

[Zena Keda]

So legend, when you lay it down like that. All right, guys, well done. Well done. I knew I kind of threw you guys for a loop there with the, with the way that we did that, that little breakdown. But you guys did a great job. You closed it out. And on that note, we're going to close things out. That is going to be it for today's show. Let us know what questions you may have for the Bar 4 conferences or really any of the conferences of how they mix into this whole web of the bracket. Trust me, I've been doing this. I played in the ncaa. We've been doing this for a few years now. I still don't get the bracket. So don't ever, ever feel like you're asking the wrong questions or asking a dumb question. We have tons of them over the course of the year and that's why we got Sabrina and Ben here to break it down. And of course, you gotta make sure you stay connected so you don't miss anything. So follow like subscribe wherever you're listening and also do the same on our YouTube channel. We have beautiful faces and great things to say, so obviously a best medium to be able to support us there as well and have a mailbag episode coming up. So make sure you get those questions in to our [e-mail] or DM us, tweet us at us, whatever it is on social media. We'll make sure we get those questions, questions answered. And last but not least, go over to our friends over at the Yahoo. Sports hub for more content. That's sports yahoo.com womens sports. On behalf of Sabrina Merchant, Ben Pickman and the athletic, I'm Zena Keda thanking you for listening and we'll see you next time. No off season is hosted by Zena Keda with Chantelle Jennings, Sabrina Merchant and Ben Pickman. It's a produced by Tanika Burrell. Our executive producer is Andrea B. Scott. Our theme music is by Marcus Bagala. Monica Compton is our video editor. Shannon Ryan is managing editor of women's basketball at the Athletic. Jesse Burton is our head of audio and Tim McMaster is director of Audio operations.

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