← No Offseason: The Athletic Women's Basketball Show
No Offseason: The Athletic Women's Basketball Show
Who Can Keep Up With UConn, South Carolina, and TCU?
01:04:11
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- [00:00]
Zena Kada
Tell me if I'm alone here. No off season listeners, but shopping used to feel more fun before all the algorithm fed blah and the endless sea of dupes. But I have a confession. I found that fun feeling again on ebay. It's not mindless scrolling. It is a fashion pursuit. And when you score that rare Adidas Collab or the Dior saddlebag you've been manifesting, it's a rush. Ebay has millions of pre loved finds from hundreds of brands backed by the ebay Authenticity Guarantee. Ebay Things People Love this podcast is brought to you by T. Rowe Price. Join me as I chat with Chris Murphy, their head of ETF specialists, to unpack what ETFs are, how they work.
- [00:39]
Ben Pickman
And how T. Rowe Price is helping.
- [00:40]
Zena Kada
Investors make more informed decisions. So as a pure investment tool, as an ETF versus, let's just say a mutual fund, what are the advantages and disadvantages between those two?
- [00:52]
Ben Pickman
The ETF structure itself allows for the costs to really be materially lower. And so on average, an ETF is going be a lot less expensive from.
- [01:01]
Zena Kada
An expense ratio perspective. Let's talk about the philosophy that differentiates T. Rowe Price from other organizations that are in the ETF space. What's that secret sauce that you guys have?
- [01:11]
Ben Pickman
It comes back to kind of the core principles of our firm, which is curiosity around. What can we do to find an edge or where can we innovate?
- [01:19]
Zena Kada
Listen in to discover how T. Rowe Price's active ETFs can help you add.
- [01:22]
Ben Pickman
An edge to outperform the index.
- [01:24]
Zena Kada
Learn more@t rowprice.com.
- [01:30]
Ben Pickman
Hi, this is Robert Mays from the Athletic. This time of year always gets busy.
- [01:33]
Sabrina Merchant
But that's when having peloton in my.
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Ben Pickman
Life really makes a difference.
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Sabrina Merchant
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Ben Pickman
In great workouts no matter what's on my schedule.
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Sabrina Merchant
It's Peloton's most advanced equipment yet, giving you real time guidance and endless ways to move. Peloton IQ plans your workouts, tracks your.
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Ben Pickman
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Sabrina Merchant
Let yourself run, lift, flex, push and go. Explore the new peloton cross training tread +@1peloton.com.
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Zena Kada
Hello everyone and welcome to no Off Season presented by Ebay. I'm Zena Kaeda.
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Sabrina Merchant
I'm Sabrina Merchant.
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Ben Pickman
And I'm Ben Pickman.
- [02:27]
Zena Kada
And today on the show, we're tackling a big question. What makes for a great women's Sports city. Other than, obviously, the color violet. Is it championships, Is it infrastructure, or is it more a vibes thing? The Athletic is out with a big list of the top cities for women's sports, and we're diving into the conversation through the lens of women's hoops. But first, a special request for all of our lovely listeners. Please take a minute to fill out our listener survey and let us know what you think about the show, what you like, what you don't like quite as much, and what you want to hear more of. In this show. I, quite literally, I listen. Okay, Some of y' all don't love the fact that I'm always talking about the Valkyrie's in the Bay. That's why I'm showing up with my Oakland Soul jersey to represent the Bay today, okay? Trying to switch it up away from just basketball. You'll find the link to the survey in our show notes, wherever you're listening. So please fill it out if you have a minute. Your feedback is super, super important to us. All right, now let's get back to the buzz around the association because it's Monday, and I'm so excited because it's time for the Sabrina scale. And Sabrina's here. Okay. Sabrina is here to break it down. On Friday, we called out a few big weekend matchups, and one of those games was Notre Dame versus Michigan. My thoughts were, of course, Hannah Hidalgo dropping 40 plus points in a game against, you know, a smaller school. But now it was time to go up against the big guards, the big forwards, the big everythings in Michigan, and. And this was a. It's a tough one for Notre Dame. Sabrina, last week, you ranked the Fighting Irish at number 13. This week, they've dropped eight spots. Number 21. Talk to us about just how significant that L from Michigan was for Notre Dame.
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Sabrina Merchant
I mean, anytime you lose by about 40 points should raise some alarm bells, I think.
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Ben Pickman
Yeah.
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Zena Kada
Fair.
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Sabrina Merchant
Yeah. You know, this is the time of year where a lot of the games that you see on the schedule are not super competitive. Right. And I'm talking about the games you mentioned this last week, the bye games. Right. Where you just have to fill out the schedule at the start of the season with teams who are not part of your conference. And a lot of the time, we're not learning a ton from these matchups. This was the first time Notre Dame had played an opponent of real consequence. And we're starting to see all of the concerns that were laid out during the offseason about this particular Notre Dame team. Right. Like Beyond Hannah Hidalgo, where are they going for scoring? What does their rebounding look like? Because their front court has been decimated. We know with the graduations of Lia Tu King and Maddie West Belt and then the of Kate Colville. Right. They were just getting destroyed on the glass. They were getting destroyed in transition. They couldn't hit a freaking shot. That's what happens when you lose Sonja Citron and Olivia Miles and you don't really bring in more shooting. So there's a lot of structural issues that had been hidden previously because Notre Dame was just able to out effort other teams. Whether that was The Hannah Hidalgo 16 steals against Akron or Cass Prosper just using her size against smaller teams. This is a team that had the talent to contend with them, that has the discipline, that has the coaching, all of that. And we saw that there were things that not sure Notre Dame is going to be able to fix as the season goes on, but there are also things that they just weren't ready for from this particular Michigan team. I look at the transition defense, I think that's something that Franklin the Al Ivey should just be super pissed off about. And that's something that can happen again. But like Michigan killing them on the offensive glass, I'm not really sure what Notre Dame is supposed to do about that going forward.
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Ben Pickman
Right.
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Sabrina Merchant
And when you collapse on an Hidalgo and form that wall around her, like who else is picking up the slack? Maybe that's Prosper, but you're going to need a lot more from Ayanna Moore. You're going to need a lot more from the likes of Vanessa DeJesus and Giselle Sanchez. And so you know, there's obviously still early in the season, but the flaws were potentially problematic heading into this season. Like Notre Dame was able to paper over those in the early part against teams that weren't as competitive. But I just can't wait until they play another good game, which is going to happen real soon. They do play USC this Friday, so you'll get to see if this was a one off against Michigan or if there are actually real limitations to this roster because of all of the personnel that they lost during the summer.
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Zena Kada
Yeah, it was very clear that Notre Dame definitely needed more out of their team, particularly their bench. Only two points from Ayanna Moore and that came in the first quarter and then everyone else is pretty much non existent. Michigan, on the other hand, Olivia Olson did not disappoint. We knew that this team was big, they have ball handlers, they were capable of moving that movement offense Ben, we know that this has been their bread and butter. What'd you like about Michigan and how dominant they were in this win against Notre Dame?
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Ben Pickman
I mean, we just saw all the options that they have on the offensive end. I thought one of the things that was so impressive that they were able to do was Hannah Doggo we disruptive. She can be on primary ball handlers, but Michigan had a number of players who they feel like they can trust to initiate their offense. And that was such a clear advantage that not every possession down the floor was a Doggo guarding the primary initiator. Right? She was guarding Holloway at times, she was guarding Coral Daniels at different times. And some of those players would initiate on some possessions, but other times it was swords or it was Olson. And so that kind of kept the always disruptive Hidalgo a little bit more out of the play. I appreciate you bringing up all those role players, Sabrina, and the comparisons between last year's Notre Dame team and this year's. Because look, we have a direct comparison in these games because Michigan and Notre Dame played in the NCAA tournament just last March, right? And that was a 21 point win by Notre Dame. And we saw in that game all the advantages, all the players, the Citrons, the Kings, the west belts. We saw all those players overwhelm Michigan, right? They jumped out to a 20 point lead after the first quarter Notre Dame did in, in that NCAA tournament game. And this was a very different kind of game because it was very much as you're saying, Sabrina Michigan, who had all the, all the options, all the answers and not nerme. Hannah Hidalgo dealt with foul trouble. She picked up two in the first quarter. We saw her literally like, I mean this was from the first possession. She shot a three pointer. I, I, I don't think I've seen this from her. That hit like the top right of the backboard from the corner, like not great. And that was really a harbinger of things to come for Notre Dame. She didn't score until the 3:30 mark of the second quarter. I thought Michigan, again, speaking of the optionality, had just a number of players that they could throw at her. Quarles, Daniels again, you know, we talked about Holloway, we talked about swords. All those players spent time on Hidalgo. Their bigs were hard hedging screens in an impressive way. Just a really, really good performance for Michigan. And look, it sets up one of the best early season games we have on the schedule this coming Friday when we now have Michigan playing UConn up in Connecticut.
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Zena Kada
And I'm happy you brought up UConn, because, my goodness, we already talked about them being dominant in this country. We know that they're picked to potentially win it all. They're picked to have the player of the year and Sarah Strong. But who? Blanca Quinones, first South American player for UConn on that roster. And she put on a show alongside Sarah Strong. Sabrina, at this point, like Sarah Strong, I. I don't know. I don't even know what to say anymore. 29 points, 13 rebounds, 7 assists, 5 steals, 3 blocks. It's. It's. It's not normal. It's different. Um, but Ben, you were the one that was in that. You were in the building and you saw it. Um, how is it possible that the Huskies look stronger than last season?
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Ben Pickman
I mean, do you want to go Strong first or you want to go Quinones first? Which one do you want to hit?
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Sabrina Merchant
I just have a quick, strong stat while we're here. I mean, she is currently leading UConn in points, rebounds, assists, steals, and blocks per game. So we could talk a lot about the other talent. It starts and ends, I think. Not starts and ends, but starts. With Sarah Strong, it very much does.
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Ben Pickman
And Gina, or said post game, he said, we almost want her to be perfect. And he acknowledged that that's not fair. But he says, I wouldn't ask her to be if I didn't think she could. And I think that kind of tells you everything you need to know about Sarah Strong and her game right now, because there's just such a. Like, there's a calm, there's a poise, there's a control. Like Aud said, basically, that Sarah Strong, she owns every space that she walks into on the court. And I think that is so true that there isn't a space on the floor. When you see Sarah Strong, where she looks rattled, where she looks phased, she just plays with such control that few other 19 year olds, frankly, have probably ever possessed in women's college basketball. And yeah, she dominated this game. 29 points. And she makes it look so easy. Like there's just. It's an ones, it's three pointers, it's going coast to coast, grabbing rebounds, pushing all the way the other end of floor, getting, you know, easy layups on the other end. It's just like a complete mastery, a complete control. Paige Becker's tweeted during the game, sarah Strong, no words like, I mean, that's it. Like, that tells you everything you need to know.
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Zena Kada
That's why I'm struggling to find Them. And I'm really happy you mentioned that Az talked about her walking into spaces because it does feel like she's never rushed. She's never on anyone else's time but her own. Sabrina, seeing the way that Strong is putting on a masterclass and then being joined in the front court with Ponca Quinones, like what is there to say about the future of UConn?
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Sabrina Merchant
I mean, the present is pretty freaking good, right?
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Ben Pickman
I don't care.
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Sabrina Merchant
Sarah Strong is just a freshman. I mean, Sarah Strong is a sophomore and Quinones is a freshman. Like they, you could think about the next three years, but like what they have right now is pretty freaking good. You know, let's, let's just enjoy the moment with Az Fudd and Sarah Williams still on the team. You know, with KK Arnold and Kayleigh Huckle and Ashlyn Shade and everybody who's contributing, like it's. I guess I kind of, I mean, we all had UConn at number one heading into the season, but I still thought that there would be a sense of Paige Beckers absence and I just have not felt it. And I don't think that's to diminish anything that Paige brought to UConn because she was beating heart of this team for the last five years and she obviously had an incredible rookie season in the wnpa. But that they can just move forward without one of the greatest players of college basketball over the last 15 years is astounding to me.
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Ben Pickman
Yeah, I think that's because of Sarah Strong, but it's also just because of the broader roster depth, the overall roster talent that they have that if you look at it, I mean, we've talked about Quinones, who was just playing her second collegiate game. She scores 18 points in 22 minutes. They have people like, you know, Kaylee Heckles coming off the bench who just gives them a jolt in terms of pace. We see UConn right now is playing faster than they did a season ago. KK Arnold, a dynamic ball handler. You obviously have Az Fudd, a potential top five pick in next year's draft. You have Sarah Williams, who is one of the highest profile transfers coming from Wisconsin over to UConn. Kevin McGuff said at postgame Ohio State's coach that they just have more length right around the basket and that's something that maybe they haven't had in recent years. The length, the athleticism, that's a huge advantage on the offensive and defensive end. We saw it against Ohio State. They played at times, lineups With Williams strong and Quinones, and Gino said post game like, he likes that lineup. And frankly, like, it's hard not to like that lineup. There's still a lot of figuring out that they're trying to do. They're trying to figure out where Quinone is, who is the 6 foot 2 freshman, like, where is her best position. And he's used the phrase unpredictable in terms of her game because some days, some games, some possessions, she's going to blow right by someone. And then there was this, you know, drive that was totally out of control. She tried to spin into traffic and picked up a charge. Like, sometimes you just don't know what you're getting with a player like that. But the talent is there, the depth is there, it's high end, it's up and down the roster. I mean, I think we were talking about it, Sabrina, after this game, like, it might be fair to wonder if this team can be more dominant than last year's team, which is saying something because last year's team obviously goes on to win the national championship.
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Sabrina Merchant
Right. But last year's team wasn't dominant during the regular season in the same way. Right. And this team, like, could legitimately go undefeated.
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Zena Kada
That's exactly what I was thinking. And particularly when you think about the front court. Like, Jenna Alfie was the main post for UConn when they won a championship. She plays four minutes the other night like that. Just a shift of just how roles have been changed and how much more length. You talk about length around the basket they've added. Blanca Canones is not even comfortable yet. She doesn't even quite know her role yet. These are scary times, folks. This is another Sarah Strong, like post slash guard that can shoot outside, that can take your. Your defender who UConn is looking scary. And unfortunately Ohio State and everyone else on this roster on their schedule is on the other side of that. It's going to be a very fun year to watch. If you're a UConn fan, there's a.
- [14:36]
Ben Pickman
Little bit of strong Quinones dynamic to watch in terms of like, their connection. Because last year Sarah Strong very much was. She was kind of playfully, I don't know the right word. How would you describe her interactions with the media or in the media? Sometimes she was shy. Sometimes she would smirk and make jokes like.
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Zena Kada
Yeah, I was gonna say like non existent almost.
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Ben Pickman
And so I think the roles have kind of like shifted a little bit just in the course of a year where now Strong is kind of poking fun at Quinones like doing post game and being very brief and being nervous. And so there was a mom after that game on Sunday where Sarah Strong was looking at the box for. With Quinones next to her, and she kind of Strong started to smirk and, like, smile and kind of COVID her face a little bit. And I asked her, like, what were you smiling about? What were you laughing at? Because then she got Quinones to react and she basically was like, making fun of Quinones for having five turnovers. And so there is definitely, like a little sibling, very close friend relationship that is. We're already seeing in the public, too, that that is, I think, very fun for this UConn team.
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Zena Kada
That is awesome. That is awesome. It's also really cool that Quinonez is like, literally learning English as we go, having obviously spoken Spanish, knows Italian because she played in Italy professionally. And that works for Ginoriemma, obviously having Italian, being able to speak Italian as well. I've read stories about when she was first, you know, coming over and just shooting and not shooting well. Ginoriemma being like, I didn't know what language to tell her to stop shooting in because it was just like, please. But shot 2 of 3 the other night against Ohio State. So hopefully he's feeling a little bit better in all languages around that. Okay, let's take a look at this game of the real ses. And I put that in quotes. If you can't see us, you're listening to the podcast. I put the Real SC in quotes. Sabrina, you were there on Saturday night. Gamecocks ran away with it, particularly in the second half. Explain it to us. I know I watched the game, but for those who are listening, was it South Carolina finding their groove while USC still figuring some things out? We know that USC is a lot younger than South Carolina. South Carolina has been able to take advantage of some transfers in the mix that have come, rounded them out with the absences. And did this game shift anything for you when you looked at your Sabrina scale and your rankings?
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Sabrina Merchant
Yeah, you know, there are certain foundational elements that we just expect with the South Carolina team. You know, they're going to have a dominant front court. They find their identity through their bigs, usually something that Don Steely has talked about repeatedly. They have disruptive defense. You know, they control the glass and they. They have shooters, but they are very discerning with how often they shoot from outside of the paint. Right. So you look at this team and there's been a lot of turnover. Sny Fae can gradu Tahina Powpow. Chloe Kitts is out for the season. Ashlyn Watkins is out for the season. You lose my Leisure Folweiley in the portal. And they only have one returning starter from last year's team that made it all the way to the national title game, and that's Raven Johnson. And she's been through so many iterations of this team. She was a backup behind Destiny Henderson and learning from Ziya Cook and sharing a backcourt with Pow Pow. And now that this is her show to run with Tanaya Latson coming in. But Ladson's obviously a very different player than the kind of guards that she's been around. So, like, all of these new elements, and yet it still just looks like a South Carolina team, right? Like Raven Johnson, maybe a little bit more aggressive scoring the ball than she has been in the past, but super disruptive defensively at the point of attack, making it hard for people to get into their offense. You've got Medina Oko, the Mississippi straight transfer coming in at center, six foot seven. They call her the Polar Bear. I don't really understand it, but it's. It's a huge, huge presence, right?
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Zena Kada
They're cuddly when they're just, like, doing their thing.
- [18:05]
Sabrina Merchant
I don't know much about polar bears, I guess, other than, like, the Coca Cola corps.
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Zena Kada
Shows hind legs. Scary as hell in Los Angeles.
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Ben Pickman
You're not familiar with Polar Bear, Sabrina? Not familiar with polar bears.
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Zena Kada
Yeah, all right, all right, I get the analogy, but keep going.
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Sabrina Merchant
Incredible defensive presence. You know, she's one of those players who just like, doesn't even necessarily affect shots. She just deters you from wanting to take them all together. And then you've got Tessa Johnson we mentioned last week, just when she starts hitting shots, like, what are you supposed to do against this team? You've got to ny. Latson can get downhill whenever she wants to. Like, even if there's only five or six players who are contributing regularly, which is different from a normal South Carolina team, they all just know their roles. So clearly, even if it is only four games into a new season, that, like, yeah, the jersey names look different. But I'm just. Every time I watch South Carolina at the start of the year, I'm just like, I feel like I'm watching the same South Carolina, and that's in a good way, right? Like, this is a team that is very clear in its roles, in its identity. And, you know, Southern California by the other, you know, stretch the imagination is, like, just not there, right? Like, they also only have one returning starter, but they don't have anybody else who's filled into other roles the same way that, like, there's nobody here who's mimicking what Kiki Irie did last year. There's, you know, Jazzy Davidson is having a nice season so far. She's not juju Watkins. Like, there's no Talia Von Olhofen running the show. There's just a lot of pieces missing that they haven't figured out what the identity of this team is going to look like yet. And they're a lot closer defensively, I would say, than offensively. But it's really hard to figure out your offense against South Carolina and especially when Jozzie Davidson picks up two fouls within the first two and a half minutes and is just sort of off of her game for the entire, you know, rest of the night. So I don't think that this necessarily, like, changed anything about how I feel about South Carolina or how I feel about Southern California. Like, South Carolina is a contender in the sense that they're in the tier below Yukon, but they're still in that tier of contenders in Southern California. This is sort of a gap year where they try to figure out, like, what is our identity right now without juju? What can we use to potentially spring forward into next season? But we're going to try to win games this year and be competitive, but it's just not going to look the same way it did last year.
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Zena Kada
Yeah, the ball handling was, was rough for usc. The biggest thing I saw was that disruptive defense you're talking about led by Raven Johnson. They couldn't do anything against it. USC really struggled to move the ball and they really struggled to score against the Polar Bear. Oko was everywhere in the paint. Ben, I'm looking at you usc, and we've been looking at this four guard lineup that they've got pretty much that they're running. And it's been fun against smaller teams. And we know that they've, they've been able to hold their own even in their game against North Carolina State. Like, I'm just wondering, is this enough for USC to be able to be competitive or is this the year that they figure out their identity while they await for juju?
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Ben Pickman
No, I mean, Sabrina called it a gap year and I think that is kind of the right freeze to use this very much is a learning experience kind of year. And I think they've certainly proven that they can be competitive. They're going to, you know, be a top 25 team, certainly, I think throughout this season, they're just not going to be a Final Four contender like people thought they were last year or like they were, you know, in past seasons. And that really is the big difference. I mean, they're playing a different style. We see someone like London Jones, for instance, transferring in from UCLA last year when she's playing with the Bruins. She took just 40 shots in the paint all season long. She's already taken 12 paint shots this season. That's indicative of both her playing a different role, but also, you know, them trying to generate different kinds of looks this year. A player who is moving into a different role partly out of necessity. That very much is kind of the USC story for me this season. And I just appreciate that Sabrina rattled off all those names on Southern, on South Carolina, because, look, that's the other big difference. She just mapped out their entire rotation. We see Dawn Staley right now in the team that she is playing. Like, that's it. Like, they have a short rotation. They're playing seven, eight players. Only twice over the last decade have they played. They've had two players who have averaged more than 30 minutes per game. This is a coach who primarily leans on, you know, 20, 25 minutes rotations, giving everyone a chance. And right now, like if you're in that rotation, you're getting a chance to cook. It's not just like everyone is going to get a chance and we'll see who cooks on a given night.
- [22:18]
Zena Kada
Hey, well, let's keep it moving. I know, Ben, you guys were a little bit everywhere. Ben, you were at the Richmond Spiders Columbia Lions game and sat on Saturday. And now Sabrina on the scale has the Spiders jumping into her top 25 at just number 25 while the Lions fell from 22. And they're completely out off the scale. How do you see it?
- [22:41]
Ben Pickman
I also have Richmond as my 25th team in the AP in my AP ballot this week. I just want to say two things about this game. Number one, and I appreciate Sabrina calling it out on Friday. A shout out to Columbia for the best media seats in the country. You basically sit on the court like an NCAA tournament game, so to speak, but just in a regular season game. And you are very much in the action. So crops to Columbia for that environment. Very loud music. Very loud music as well, for what you might expect even on a Saturday night, Richmond, Columbia game. And then on the Richmond front, you know, they're one of the best offenses in the country, or they were last season and we saw them struggle just 16% from the field in the first quarter. This game versus Columbia, they respond with a 61.5% second quarter mark and they kind of took off from there. They're a very quality mid major opponent. Columbia is as well. And seldom does Columbia lose games at home. I think both of these teams will end up being NCAA tournament teams, but yeah, Richmond, Maggie Dugan, impressive passer, was one of the things that stuck out to me. And for the Columbia side, Riley Weiss, who is kind of their leading scorer, she hit an off night seven to 25 from the field. The rest of Columbia starters combined to take just 32 shots. So, you know, a good mid major game certainly early season.
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Zena Kada
I feel like Columb is making up for their locker room situation with their media seats because if their locker room situation is still what it was when I played, it is way down in the dungeon somewhere by their fencing like courts and it is far as hell. It's a workout to get from the locker room to the court. So they're just making up for what they're doing to the players that come and visit their arena. All right, let's keep it moving. Woo. This game was fun. TCU beating up on NC State on Sunday. And I know you guys are like, hold up, Zena. I thought you have an affinity for NC State. I thought you care about wolf pack pride. And I do, I do. I still put up my wolf pack, you know, don't worry about it. But I was particularly happy to see Marta Suarez go off on NC State. Marta actually shadowed me here in the Bay Area, followed me around as I did some work for NBC Sports. Bay Area. She is so brilliant of a mind in general, but it just, it's so great to also see that she is a Hoober and not just on.
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Ben Pickman
Did you give her tips? Did you give her tips when she shadowed you about?
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Zena Kada
She didn't ask for. I don't think she needed them from me. She asked for some sports.
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Sabrina Merchant
Did you ask for tips?
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Zena Kada
And yeah, she didn't need tips from me. She was doing her thing at Cal. I remember the very first time I ever saw her was actually against usc, watching her watching juju play. And I got to see Marta Suarez and everyone in the crowd was like, yo, she's a baller. Cause she, she's a center, quote unquote, a front court player that can take you off the dribble and she can shoot the outside shot. And that was all on display on Sunday against NC State. Sabrina, you bumped TCU from number eight to number seven, while the Wolf Pack dropped from 17 to 21. I might have spoiled the surprise a little bit, but what stood out to you most about tcu?
- [25:41]
Sabrina Merchant
Yeah, I mean, a lot of Martasaurus. It was funny. There was actually an ACC game on Sunday, which is insane. We're two weeks into the season and there was a conference game. And I'm watching tcu, NC State, and I'm like, NC State's got to be like, this is an ACC game too, right? Like, Marta Suarez and Olivia Models just dicing them over and over again. Right? Former ACC opponents, but also, Marta Suarez has played in four different conferences the last four seasons of her college career. Just a weird time to be NCAA athlete. But, you know, I wrote about this in the power rankings. Marta Suarez is exactly the kind of transfer that Mark Campbell looks for when he's coming in TCU. Old and tall. And she is 23 years old. She is 6 foot 3 and she can hoop. Right. That's also an important piece of the puzzle and I think about what the TCU system requires. You've got to have the dynamic point guard. They have Olivia Miles. You've got to have the big room, running center. That's Clara Silva, who incidentally, not all that old, but super tall. And Marta Suarez is just that nice connecting piece where, like you said, she can do a lot off the dribble. She can play within the system. It's interesting. If you look at her shot charts, they've been exactly what TCU has wanted for the last two seasons. She just hasn't made a ton of them. And I think that's because of just the offensive context around her at Cal in Tennessee. Right. Like, it just wasn't the same level of talent. It wasn't the same commitment to that efficiency. So she already knows, like, how to play within this. It's now that she's just getting the ball more open and like in better situations. And you saw her, she's just so good at using space and her size is so important at that four spot because she's so much bigger than Camille Pierre. She's gonna be bigger basically than mostly anybody who's guarding her this season, especially in the Big 12. And I thought it was just really important for TCU to have this one real opportunity over the course of the non conference schedule to show like, hey, you know, like, we had a great season last year. We're going to just plug and play and do it again this year. And it's going to be a while until we see them against a competitive team, but at least you have the proof of concept now that, like, hey, we did it on a road environment against NC State. Maybe we'll be able to coast for like the next month, but at least, like, this is something we can look back on is this is what we can look like when things are clicking.
- [27:40]
Ben Pickman
And I like that you highlighted all the size the TCU has because that is one of the big changes that we've seen from them offensively from last year to this year. Again, they're another, for the second straight year, really, really good offense. But last year they would score just around 30 paint points per game. That number is up to 41 this year. You talk about Suarez. I mean, Silva. We've seen her blossom since transferring in from Kentucky. I mean, yeah, her usage, her role is so much more significant than it was. She was averaging just 12 and a half minutes last year with the Wildcats. That's up to 24 plus. And she's now starting for the Horned frogs. But her per 40 minutes are way up. Like her scoring, her rebounding, her passing. She's shooting nearly 70% from the field. Like, you know, Sabrina talks about old and tall. She is young and very, very, very tall. And that is the kind of player that we'll see what guards that Mark Campbell is able to bring in year after year with Olivia Miles, you know, going to the pros, but like, hopefully you retain Silva and you can have her be the, you know, the backbone, the foundation of your team. Can I just say, too, and I don't know if anyone has any NC State thoughts. I think, you know, we don't, we don't want to give out participation trophies, but I do think we need to acknowledge NC State for playing probably the hardest. Certainly like four games to open the season of any.
- [28:54]
Zena Kada
Yeah, that's true.
- [28:55]
Ben Pickman
Program in the country. They play Tennessee, they play Southern Cal, they play tcu. They throw in a game with Maine in there. That one. We won't talk much about that on this show, but, you know, props for them for like actually scheduling. They're 2 and 2 right now. They're lower in some AP polls than for some people. Like 500 is 500. We'll see how good they actually are. But I appreciate them. I appreciate them.
- [29:18]
Zena Kada
No, I agree with you. Westmore has done a good job of at least giving them some competition, some games of consequence, as I love when Sabrina says that. And yeah, I'll say this, like, that size. It was shocking to see Camille Pierre, one of the most versatile bigs in the country. Really struggle to find her footing against Martis Juarez's size, her physicality. Clara Silva was just bothering folks. I mean, it was really cool to see this edition of the Hayley Van Lith, Sedona Prince. It's like a new version of this in Olivia Miles and Clara Silva, and I feel like it's an elevated version. No disrespect to HVL and Sedona, but like it. This was fun. And Olivia Miles was all over the floor. I mean, shout out to NC State as well. They did try to make a comeback. That press that they put on towards the end of the game almost had them back into this thing, but it was just too little too late. But my goodness, tcu, they look good and they're fun to watch. Definitely will be picking up more TCU games on my schedule for sure. Okay, one more before we wrap up. Sabrina scale. I know we've talked a lot. This is, this is nice. I like this. Breaking this down, breaking all the games down. I want to get you guys thoughts. Okay. This is a game that I actually had listed on my game to watch. I think I might have said it on the Tuesday episode, but I didn't mention it on the Friday episode. Duke, West Virginia. I knew this game was gonna be a game to watch because we've had to watch for Duke's offensive struggles. Had to figure out if Carol Lawson was gonna get things a little bit together for the Blue Devils, but did not know I was gonna watch for one of the most ridiculous wins by West Virginia coming out after they had to win the game with only five eligible players for the second half due to a skirmish that led to seven ejections. This was on Friday. Pulled out the upset. Sabrina. Duke has fallen out of the Sabrina scale. They are not in your top 25 anymore. Was that loss enough to knock them out or were there larger concerns overall even coming into this game that you had with Duke?
- [31:25]
Sabrina Merchant
I mean, this is an accumulation, right? Like NC State is in the top 25 at 2 and 2. It's not like, you know, losing two games, one of them, which is kind of a road environment in West Virginia. They weren't technically playing in Morgantown, but it was in the state of West Virginia. It was definitely a decided Mountaineers crowd. But like you mentioned, their offense is just a train wreck. Like they scored 23 points in the first half. Uh, they finished with 47 or 49 points. 49 points. And that again is against the same five player unit that had to play the entire final 20 minutes. The little, you know, Freckas at the end of the half, right? Like Jordan Wood gets a block on Jordan Harrison sort of looks at her and is like, yeah. And then Jordan Harrison shoves her and then there's another shove and it's a whole thing. I honestly thought six players came off the West Virginia bench. I'm surprised only five of them got ejected in addition to Jordan Harrison. Maybe because they just wanted to make sure that one was still available so they'd have a complete five player unit for the second half. But for Duke to come out in that second half and just not know how to play basketball is literally how I felt watching that. I mean, there were players who weren't even playing in the first half. Like, this is not part of West Virginia's normal rotation, you know?
- [32:32]
Zena Kada
Yes, it is.
- [32:33]
Sabrina Merchant
The star of the show was Riviera, the center who was just slicing and dicing, you know, everything in the paint for Duke. It was just embarrassing, I think for the Blue Devils, who keep messing around with the rotation in ways that like, I'm not sure are inherently productive. Like they didn't start Jaden Donovan in this game, which is top five recruit two years ago, has been a starter her entire time at Duke and then just like pull her to see like what's going to work out. You, I don't really understand the logic there. They didn't even bring her in the starters at the start of the second half when Jordan Wood was like ejected. So there's just a lot weird going on with Duke again. They can't score the ball to save their lives. It's ridiculous. I watch a Florida State team that has lost to Nia Latson and lost Mikayla Timpson and it's just bereft of any names that you really recognize. And they just score 70 points. They get up and score 70 points just like, how can we do this with this team? And Carol Lawson can't figure out how to get to 50 against a five player unit that again is playing the entire second half. It's just, it's ridiculous.
- [33:25]
Zena Kada
It's worth noting. The players that were left, four of them were not starters. So four starters were rejected because they came off the bench to support Jordan Henderson after the situation happened and ended up getting ejected. It was stunning. It was wild. The funny thing was that the fracas or the skirmish or the pretty low level melee level, I would say understandable. It was so weak. It was so weak that they felt.
- [33:53]
Sabrina Merchant
The need to jump onto the court after that is like too much yeah, exactly.
- [33:57]
Zena Kada
The fact that they jumped off the. The. I mean, literally, they didn't even make it to the fracas. They just jumped off. And in the ncaa, if you jump off the bench, you're immediately ejected. And so I'm literally sitting there. I'm like, for that. Was it worth it, y'?
- [34:11]
Sabrina Merchant
All?
- [34:11]
Zena Kada
Was it worth it?
- [34:12]
Sabrina Merchant
During the entire review, as they were deciding which ejections to play, it was the same Taylor Swift song playing just on loop.
- [34:18]
Zena Kada
Oh, my God.
- [34:19]
Sabrina Merchant
The entire time as I was watching the decisions.
- [34:23]
Zena Kada
Oh, wow.
- [34:24]
Sabrina Merchant
It's like, did the dj, like, have a certain, like, set list that he was allowed to play for the first half and just, like, had to keep using him the longer it went on?
- [34:31]
Zena Kada
I literally felt like the ad was like, play the nicest music you have. Like, we need to calm it down in this building. Get no one excited. I was very disappointed with that. I was just like, this is so lame. But, yes, I was more disappointed with that. Duke did not come out and say, all right, let's just take care of business. They ain't even got their starters. Okay. They have five players. Run them to the ground. Nope, none of that. Carol Lawson, Duke Blue Devils definitely have some reflecting to do.
- [34:59]
Ben Pickman
Whoo.
- [34:59]
Zena Kada
Okay, thank you. I just had to get your thoughts on that game because it was just. It was silly. Either way. Appreciate you guys breaking down the Sabrina scale. As always. We're going to keep you guys posted throughout the season, especially with the games to watch. Let us know if there are games, what your thoughts were on these games, and if you thought the Duke melee was worth it at all. And if that was your favorite Taylor Swift song, we want to hear that too. All right, let's keep it going, guys. We gotta talk about why I've got these clothes on right now. Tell me if I'm alone here. No off season listeners, but shopping used to feel more fun before all the algorithm fed blah and the endless sea of dupes. But I have a confession. I found that fun feeling again on ebay. Because on ebay, it's not just shopping. It's a full on fashion pursuit. And when you find the thing, that adrenaline hit is real. Like when you score that rare Adidas collab that's lived on your mood board. Or the Dior saddlebag you ripped out of magazine in 2007 and never got over. Or something like The Cecily Banson GT2160s that sold out in five seconds. Yeah, those. It's about the thrill of finding pieces that feel like me. And I want you to find pieces that feel like you. There's always more to discover. Ebay has millions of pre loved finds from hundreds of brands backed by ebay. Authenticity guarantee eBay things people love.
- [36:28]
Ben Pickman
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Zena Kada
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- [37:37]
Zena Kada
Okay today our colleagues at the Athletic Revealed list Of the top 10 cities for women's sports. And all week we'll be putting out articles talking about these cities and what makes them so great for women's sports. In this moment, this list was compiled in two rounds of internal voting. First, a long list of 30 plus cities were narrowed down to 15 by women's sports writers and staff and then a company wide vote determined the top 10. So here today we are going to dig into that list and weigh in on what we think makes a great women's sports city. Particularly look at that question through the lens of women's hoops. Ben, before we dive into the list, I want to get your take what makes for a great women's sports city?
- [38:21]
Ben Pickman
So I think it's the overall like energy and the synergy is the word that I would use between sports teams. How connected different teams are with one another I think is a really big factor here. And that's colleges, that's pro teams. The kind of shared support, the shared energy, the shared vibe and the kind of natural connections between teams I think that is a really big part of it. I also think just having, you know, really supportive or really engaged fans, I guess they don't even have to be supportive. Your teams don't deserve to support because they're not very good. Just really engaged fans, I think, is also really.
- [38:58]
Sabrina Merchant
That's what makes a good setting engage fans. If the team does not support fans.
- [39:02]
Ben Pickman
That care, like, good for good or bad, and who are willing to make their opinions known and clear. And I also think cities that have teams who have entered the kind of zeitgeist of the city. And so certainly one of the cities that I think is underrated on this list very much has a team that checks that box. Ooh.
- [39:21]
Zena Kada
Okay. Sabrina, what about you?
- [39:23]
Sabrina Merchant
I feel like I'm always the one saying this, but a good sports city is when you have good sports teams, I think that matters.
- [39:29]
Ben Pickman
It's true.
- [39:30]
Zena Kada
That is real. I think that the performance definitely translates, and it helps with fan engagement, and it does, you know, elevate the viewership of that city because those teams are playing a little bit longer than the other ones typically, on average. Right. I'm with you. I think a mix of both. Right. You want teams that do well, perform well, but you also want teams that have that synergy. You're talking about the connectedness, whether it's through colors, the way that it's represented out in a particular city, whether it's through just, like, the way that they show up and support each other. I live for seeing one team's best players showing up in the crowd of another team's, you know, games. Like, I think that's so much fun. Every time they put the camera on them and everyone's really excited. There's crossover. Right? And it really all comes down to building up good vibes. Vibes, y'.
- [40:21]
Sabrina Merchant
All.
- [40:21]
Zena Kada
It's good vibes. And we know that typically is a thing, especially with women's sports and supporting women's sports, you're generally a good person with good vibes. If you like women's sports, that's just. It's a thing. I don't know. I don't know where the rule was made, but generally, if you like women's sports, you got good vibes about you. So let's look at this list. Top 10 list, coming in at number one. Yeah. Just gotta make sure y' all see the hat. If you're listening, at least you heard the call. Okay? And I'm sure you said it in your car and wherever you are at the gym, if you're there, just Go ahead and say it loudly. Say it proudly. For those of you that don't know. Coming in at number one. Yes. Yes. Coming in at number two. I actually have a shirt for a school, a college school in this area. The Minnesota golden gophers. Minneapolis St. Paul. Shout out to Chantelle. She's holding it down for us out in the Midwest. Gotta go back over to the west coast for number three and four. Number three, Seattle. Number four, Portland. Nice little battle between those two states in the Northwest region. Then number five, going to Ben's Naked Woods, NYC Metro. I got a lot of love for nyc, particularly for their color coordination amongst the women's team. I love that. I think it's beautiful. Seeing all their logos all put together is just gorgeous. Then a drop down for Sabrina's hometown, la. I'm very curious about how y' all feel about that. We're gonna get into that in a second. Number seven, Boston. Number eight, Indianapolis. Number nine, Kansas City. Kc for sure. They shout out to them having the only. Or is it the only Now? I know people are building, but the only arena dedicated to their NWSL team. Love, love the investment that you're seeing. KC and then number 10, we got a tie between Chicago and Washington, which I thought was hilarious considering both teams are. Both cities are struggling with that performance area that Sabrina was talking about. All right, let's get into it. What do we think? Did our staff writers get this right? What's the first thing that jumped out to you guys on this list? I absolutely think number one was correct. Can we all agree on that at least?
- [42:32]
Sabrina Merchant
No, I don't really know. I mean, like, I think of women's sports cities and, like, I realize they don't have any other sports beyond, like, the Huskies and the Connecticut sun, but, like, Connecticut feels like a women's sports capital, honestly. And I think, like, the Women's Basketball hall of Fame is in Nashville, Tennessee, and there's no Tennessee representation here. I guess the combination of college and pro is sort of what made the teams on this list. And obviously the Bay Area gets a huge recency bump with the addition of the Valkyries, which has proven just what a phenomenal environment that is for women's sports. But I think about the places that I have enjoyed watching women's sports the most. Couple of them. Just not on this list, I guess, because of the volume of teams that don't exist in their area, I guess.
- [43:13]
Zena Kada
Sure, yeah. I think where you have more of a professional representation with, you know, Bay Area having pro soccer, semi pro soccer and women's, you know, pro wnba, and then on top of, you know, add Stanford, add Cal, add Santa Clara for the amount of soccer stars and legends that they've provided. That helps the balance there. But you're right. I mean, Tennessee in itself, Pat Summitt, and then of course, the hall of Fame. I'm also thinking, I mean, I mean, I could also argue for the rdu, the amount of legends that have come out from a college perspective, on the basketball side especially, and the soccer side and field hockey and lacrosse. Okay. There's a lot of great college sports teams in the Raleigh area. But, Ben, what were you gonna say? What cities do you think were left off and should have been on the list?
- [44:01]
Ben Pickman
Yeah, I mean, look, this is where my professional sports bias definitely comes into play here. Because as a native New Yorker and someone who still lives in Brooklyn, as we have very often discussed on this show, we don't exactly have the best college teams in this area. I mean, I drove to Hartford on Sunday and that was about two and a half hours. There was about 315 back for all those that were keeping a score of the traffic delays that I got in, that is the closest really high major college basketball team near me. Sabrina shouted them out properly. I don't know what city you would pick from the state of Connecticut. I know this is what the Connecticut sun are wrestling with right now. Is it Uncasville? Is it Storrs? Is it Hartford? Where are you putting this franchise going forward? But look, I mean, I think the Liberty in recent years have done as good of a job as maybe any other franchise in professional women's sports, of entering the cultural zeitgeist just as a team. I mean, think about, I mean, Ellie the Elephant and just all the appearances that she is making both in person and in terms of, of, you know, additional press opportunities, whether it's on your, you know, your high profile morning shows, whether that's on magazine covers that don't traditionally care about women's basketball. You have their. Obviously their best players have made similar appearances. The kind of Liberty biberty chant, for all the humor and lightness of it, like, I think has broken through as well. And then you have Gotham right now. And, you know, that's one of the teams that people are talking about in the NWSL because they are the ultimate team that is flipping the switch, entering as the number eight seed in the playoffs and now find themselves very much competing for a championship on the line this very season. So.
- [45:37]
Sabrina Merchant
In the Bay Area.
- [45:39]
Ben Pickman
Yeah, in the Bay Area.
- [45:40]
Sabrina Merchant
But like you gotta reward, you gotta.
- [45:41]
Ben Pickman
Reward, like you gotta reward these cities that these teams first and foremost come.
- [45:47]
Sabrina Merchant
From this championship to be held in New York because they thought it'd be a good vibe for women's sports.
- [45:51]
Ben Pickman
No, no, no, no, no. But again, I'm talking about selling out arenas, professional success, success again, the college stuff. It's fine, I'll like you. You have a volume play Xena in the Bay Area. That's what you mapped out. You rattled off like six different colleges. I don't know where any of them are. I couldn't tell you.
- [46:09]
Zena Kada
You're telling me you don't know where Stanford is? Sir. Really? Really? You don't know where Palo Alto is, Sir. Okay, okay, please. No, this is, this is real. I mean, New York is always going to meet, in my opinion, like the professional sports mecca, regardless of how well they're playing. And this is a crossbow. But yes, Ellie the elephant single handedly revitalized the women's sports mascot arena. Like people were not thinking about women's sports mascots to the degree that they were until Ellie came around flipping her braid, masquerading as Lil Kim and Lady Gaga on the weekends. Like it's a whole thing that they've been able to provide. And I think that this is also part of this conversation around the sports cities and what makes them so special is that how much do they cross over beyond the sports themselves. Right. And this is where you're talking about the cultural overlay of these teams where you want to support them whether you know what's going on or not. You're going to the bar, you're going to the game, you're buying tickets. And I think that's also another portion that was really cool seeing like particularly Portland, the sports bra. Right. Being able to have the sports bars that have opened up for women's sports particularly. We saw Rickies open up in the bay lines around the corner when the Valkyrie season open. And this is really cool that there's going to be all this excitement, expansion that's happening not just with teams, but with women's sports bars. Sabrina, like in la, there's so much noise, there's so many different things for people to be distracted by in terms of like sports teams that they want to cover or not cover. You cover them, they want to be able to attend and support. But there's also all these other distractions. How do women's sports kind of elevate themselves in the midst of all that? Because right now it is very cool to be at the USC games and UCLA games and the LA sports, like, it is a scene, and I feel like that's been revitalized as of late as well. But maybe you have a different perspective.
- [48:09]
Sabrina Merchant
Yeah, it is a very crowded sports landscape in la. You know, you have two professional baseball teams, basketball teams, football teams, hockey teams, depending on how far south you want to count to Anaheim. You've got all of the college teams. Right. And that's just the men's side. Right. And then you have the women's side of things with the Sparks and Angel City and, you know, now the elevation of USC and UCLA and women's basketball and. And historically, USC and UCLA have been excellent in other sports in college. Right. Like, you think about volleyball and soccer and swimmers that have come through here, there's just so much going on at any given time that it's hard for anyone to break through. And I think, like, you've seen juju break through for USC in a way that, you know, nobody really has since Lisa Leslie or Cheryl Miller before her. Right. But it really does take, like, a transcendent star of a juju Watkins capacity to, like, find her way through everything that's happening in la, because otherwise it's a Dodger City and then it's a Lakers city, and then they maybe care about some other things, but it's very hard for those other sports to break through. And even though USC is very good and UCLA is very good and the Sparks are what, fourth attendance in the WNBA and Angel City was second in attendance in the nwsl. There is support for those teams, but I don't think they have the cultural imprint on LA in the same sense that the Liberty do in New York or the Valkyries do in the Bay, or you think about the thorns and the rain in Seattle and Portland. Although I flipped those. I apologize. They exist in la, but I don't think they have the same resonance that other teams do. So I think their placement makes a lot of sense to me because there is an awesome opportunity if you want to watch women's sports and consume women's sports in la. There's so many places you can go. There's so many teams that you can be a fan of. I don't think they have the same identity with the city that some other women's sports in other parts of the country do. Like, I think about what the University of Minnesota means in Minnesota or Stanford in the Bay Area and other things like that. It's just because of all of the other sports that have just imprinted their way on the collective consciousness in la, the other schools. And I think the women's sports are just lagging behind little. And it's going to take some success, I think, for them to really break through. We talk about the sparks, obviously, a lot on this podcast, but Angel City also won playoff appearance in their four years in the nwsl. So they just haven't made a mark in the way that you would hope.
- [50:20]
Ben Pickman
I like that you bring up resonance overall, because that was one of the words that came up in a conversation I had with Cheryl Reeve for this story or for this series, rather. I have a story coming out on the site on Wednesday just about the Minneapolis St. Paul women's sports scene. And I talked to Cheryl Ford, really, to get her thoughts about what separates that market compared to all the others on that list. And resonance is a big thing that she talked about in that, you know, in Minneapolis. She felt like there's not a need to have like all these PR campaigns to say, like, you know, go support XYZ team. There's just a natural, you know, imprint that these women's sports teams, or the University of Minnesota Women's hockey program or Aurora and women's soccer or the PWHL's frost, have already made inroads very much in the community. And there's again, this synergy between teams. There's this like, mutual support. And that is for women's sports teams and that is also for women's sports teams in relation to men's sports teams. I mean, she mentioned to me, like, as they think about the links in relation to the Twins, they're very much in communication about scheduling. Right. Because they don't want one team's broadcast times or first pitch times or tip off times to cannibalize to negatively affect, you know, the start times for the other team. Right. So they're cognizant to not, not scheduled necessarily at the same time if they both have home games, because they know, like, that hurts one fan base and it hurts the other fan base. And they very much don't want to do that. I also think, you know, you talked about some of the other elements, Xena, that are important bars the kind of, you know, fan culture. One of the other differentiating factors in Minnesota that I think is important to call out and Cheryl definitely made light of this in our conversation, was they also have the Tucker center for Research on Girls and Women in Sports at the University of Minnesota. And that is kind of a place or an institution, a department that has produced a number of seminal pieces of research in the kind of women's sports and the girls sports space, youth sports space. And, you know, their mission is all about accelerating change for girls and women's women in sports. And that was another thing Cheryl talked about and highlighted that she, as she has been in the city for, you know, a decade and a half plus like, has used for information as a resource to pick the brains of people. When you think about historical legacy, that is another thing. Thing that separates that. That market compared to some of the others.
- [52:36]
Zena Kada
Now, Cheryl bringing us behind the scenes because I don't know if everybody's being fans of the Lynx because they got research going on. However, I do think that that is really important that when you center those type of institutions around women's sports in a particular city and there's already the resonance of why is this important? Because of the athletes that we have literally available to us and around us and the next generation that are watching these athletes, we want to make sure that they're set up. So that's really cool that they've got that going. Talked about residents. I'm hearing the synergy, right? The synergy not just between the women's sports, but the synergy with the sports around you. And I think that there's something to be said about that because the Valkyries being tied to the Warriors, I think helps. You've got this alignment of wanting to support the warriors and support whatever they're doing. If you're, you know, men's sports fan and you support the NBA, but they also have their own support and their own resonance from people that don't even care about the NBA that they love. Just the Valkyries team, very different, I feel like, than like the New York Liberty, for example, tied to the Brooklyn Nets. I don't think not one person is thinking about the Brooklyn Nets when they think about the New York Liberty. They are supporting the Liberty and they're happy about it. Other than maybe the people that work in the front office and cover both on Brooklyn sports entertainment, it just feels like they're very different. How much do you think the legacy of a team because the New York Liberty, they've been around since the very beginning of things, right? You think about the LA Sparks in that same regard. Some of these teams that are these. These legacy teams, Indianapolis, for example, you know, little bit lower on this list at number eight. But thinking about what they've got going from the legacy of the WNBA being one of the inaugural teams, they also have these college programs that are awesome, particularly in Sports outside of basketball, of course. But how much does the legacy and having been in this thing for a very long time affect things versus winning championships or winning more recently? Because Valkyries just showed up. But them making the playoffs as an expansion team, I think that really excited a lot of people. There was a lot of good vibes around the city for that versus, you know, New York Liberty. They've been in this thing, but they just got their championship for the first time in 2024. How much does that impact how you're evaluating the ways that team can help with a city's vibes in women's sports?
- [54:57]
Sabrina Merchant
I mean, I think it's a combo of things, right? Like, you look at the Bay Area, and they have the legacy of Stanford, and you have the newness of Golden State and Bay fc, right? It's. It's all of that put together, right? Like, there obviously has been a historical interest in women's sports, which is why an expansion team in WNBA was going to do so well there, which is why an expansion team in soccer was going to do so well there. But Stanford was really holding. Holding the fort for a very long time there as one of the most successful programs in women's college basketball of all time, right. With Tara Vandiver. So I think. I think it's all part of it, right? Like, in. In la, you have, like, some of the legacy of the Sparks, right? But you don't have a ton of new success, Right? Like, obviously, USC and UCLA are doing well now, but they haven't exactly captured titles. Right. And Angel. Angel City FC is like, a phenomenon in the sense of, like, it's celebrity ownership and all of that, but they're not winning a lot of games, right? So I think. I think it's all of it put together, right? Like, you need the historical basis of women's sports fans, but, like, you also need to give them a reason to continue to come to.
- [55:52]
Zena Kada
Yeah. Ben, is there anything that we're not thinking of when we're evaluating women's sports cities and looking at this list of where things landed?
- [56:02]
Ben Pickman
I just want to come clean here, Zena. I did not vote on this project. So in terms of the actual rankings themselves, guilty is charged. I'm sorry. And my complaints and my frustrations were not factored in, or else I think New York would be higher and maybe my personal list would look a little different.
- [56:22]
Zena Kada
I do.
- [56:23]
Sabrina Merchant
It's kind of important to note that these cities are all in places where. And not to, like, get overly political here, where, like, women's rights. And, like, the experience of female athletes in these states is also prioritized. Right. Like, you think about just the access that, you know, women have to medical care in California and New York and Minnesota and Washington. Right. Like, there are places where I think. I think it's great to watch women's sporting events, but they're in different parts of the country where maybe the experience of female athletes isn't structured in the same way that it is in some other states. So I do think that's an interesting look. You look at where these cities are, and it's more welcoming to LGBTQ communities. It's more welcoming to just female athletes in general. I think that's all part of the experience of being a fan of women's sports. And that's sort of reflected in the top cities on this list.
- [57:09]
Zena Kada
That's all a part of the fan base. Especially your fan base has to feel comfortable. They have to feel represented. They have to feel included. And that is such a really great, great point. I'm curious, any cities on the rise? And I'm particularly thinking about a place in South Carolina that might have some questions, especially if they continue the role that they're on right now. Any cities where college teams are dominating, their regions are dominating. That might put some folks on the map. I still, I'm voting Raleigh, Raleigh, Durham area. If we're going to do metropolitan areas, I'm going to do the Raleigh, Durham area as a place where I think they could slide into the top 10. But, I mean, Carol Lawson's going to have to do some work for me. But where do we think are some cities that could potentially pick up, especially with the expansion teams coming, not only in women's basketball, but professional women's soccer, hockey, women's rugby? I mean, there's so many sports popping up.
- [58:07]
Sabrina Merchant
Well, there certainly seems like a professional bias on this list. Right. Like, I look at Seattle and Portland and, like, I don't know how much Washington, the University and the University of Oregon are contributing to those lists, but, like, they're not as historically successful, I think, as some of the other college programs that we're talking about. Like, you know, Connecticut, Tennessee, Columbia, South Carolina. Like, those are places where they have great, obviously, college fan bases, but really how much else beyond that? So I think it's probably going to be a city where you have a lot of professional infrastructure coming. Like, you know, the NWSL just announced another team in Atlanta. If, you know, dreams could become more popular there. And they have volleyball there. That's, you know, Become very popular. So I think all of that could maybe coalesce into something and then you have a little bit more of a southern presence on this list, which I think is lacking right now. That could be interesting.
- [58:50]
Zena Kada
It's the south that's definitely lacking anything for you, Ben.
- [58:53]
Ben Pickman
Yeah, I mean, you mentioned some of, you know, Knoxville or Nashville in Tennessee. I mean, that's also the home where Athletes Unlimited has set up shop unrivaled setting up shop outside of Florida. I think the Florida market is not represented on this list at all. And then you also have some cities that are kind of known for being a little bit more, I guess, hubs of certain sports. Right. I think about Oklahoma City for softball, for instance. Right. Doesn't necessarily have the same kind of professional representation across other teams, but that is a city that for tentpole events has proven to do a really good job. We're going to see it in the 2028 LA Olympics that softball is not taking place in Los Angeles. So if Sabrina had any aspirations of covering softball in those games, she's going to have to go move to Oklahoma City because that is where that is taking place. And that is just speaks to, you know, the fan base, the support, the infrastructure of, you know, that kind of league and that sport in that city.
- [59:47]
Zena Kada
All right, well, it looks like for now I'm just gonna keep rocking my, my Violet here for the yay area. And if you guys want more of the Athletics Top Women's Sports City series, make sure you check it out. There are new articles that are be dropping every day and we want to hear from you. Was your city left off? Do you feel like there was some disrespect put on your city's name? Let us know. Be sure to fill out the top Women's Sports Cities poll where you'll find that in our show notes. All right, don't go anywhere. We just got one last thing to do. And it has to do with the rule book. Tell me if I'm alone here. No off season listeners. But shopping used to feel more fun before all the algorithm, algorithm fed blah and the endless sea of dupes. But I have a confession. I found that fun feeling again on ebay. Because on ebay it's not just shopping, it's a full on fashion pursuit. And when you find the thing that adrenaline hit is real, like when you score that rare Adidas collab that's lived on your mood board or the Dior saddlebag you ripped out of a magazine in 2007 and never got over or. Or something like the cecily bands and GT2160s that sold out in five seconds. Yeah, those. It's about the thrill of finding pieces that feel like me. And I want you to find pieces that feel like you. There's always more to discover. Ebay has millions of pre loved finds from hundreds of brands backed by ebay. Authenticity guarantee eBay things people love the.
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Zena Kada
Guys, we've got a new segment we're going to call A Penny for your thoughts. This is based on the fact that the last penny was made in the United States just last week. Week. And after 232 years doing his thing, Abraham Lincoln is going to have to go ahead and retire fully. No more pennies. And we thought, I wonder if we could take one rule either from the WNBA or NCAA college hoops that we want to have discontinued. What would that rule be? Now I'm going to go ahead and throw mine out here because mine actually was addressed this year they already took my penny, already took my thought and they implemented it. And it had to do with the headbands. Now when I played we were one. The type of headbands that we were allowed to wear were limited. We weren't able to just wear the cotton headbands. We either had to wear basically pre wrap tape that we, you know, wrapped around our head a lot of the times because it couldn't be too thick. We couldn't just have it be one band. We would have to fold it or what we would do is put it on our heads and roll it back backwards. And it ended up being just like one little string, a very thin string, which was the typical headband that you would see that Nike offered, et cetera. Anyone really offered were these like very thin headbands. Now for those of you listening who are dealing with edges. Okay. Hair in the front of your. It was the worst. Okay. I still suffer from what I did to myself during college. The way they ripped out your edges, it was awful. It was terrible. And so as of late, we started to see more and more players, particularly those that were sponsored by school schools with Nike, et cetera, seen in Under Armour schools, Adidas schools. Not many Adidas schools, but mostly Nike and Under Armour have started providing their players with 2 inch regulation size headbands that could fit around a girl's head without ruining her edges. Well, now they have changed the rule. This year. Finally, headbands can be up to 4 inches, which will actually cover the front of your head and help with the sweating while not ripping your hair out. So I am so grateful. Grateful that they already took my thought and implemented it here. But now, Ben and Sabrina. Sabrina, I'm gonna start with you. If you had a rule that you wanted to shake up, discontinue, what would it be?
- [64:45]
Sabrina Merchant
I think I've brought this up several times before, but we'll just, we'll just do it again. In the wnba, I think we should just get rid of jump balls. They take too long. The rest don't set them up. There's violations all the time. How many times you see two people line up for jump ball and one of them already decides before the TP even comes that they're just not going to try and then we have to reset the whole thing. It's annoying. It just takes way too long, disrupts the flow of the game. I think we should just have possession arrow all throughout women's basketball.
- [65:10]
Zena Kada
I'm with that. Add that to the list. I'm with that. Ben, what were your thoughts on that?
- [65:15]
Ben Pickman
I mean, Sabrina's made that. She's, she's very much on the anti jump ball island. She's staked her claim, made it very clear.
- [65:21]
Sabrina Merchant
So the best thing about college basketball. Possession, arrows.
- [65:24]
Zena Kada
Possession, arrows, baby. That's what we need.
- [65:26]
Ben Pickman
That's what we need all the there. I mean, for me, we know that I like to close that show sometimes by going off the board here. So I'm going to Tell a personal story very quickly. That is something that I want to see discontinued from all levels of basketball, or at least the basketball that I play at. Because about 10 days ago I play in a co ed weekly pickup run and we had a tournament. We do tournaments every like six months or so. And in one of the games, it was very, very intense for no apparent reason because again, again, we're like amateurs just playing pickup basketball. Someone initiated a take foul in a front a breakaway in a pickup game. Someone had a layup, a clear layup. They'd gotten a steal intercepting a pass and they were going the other way. And another player on the team that had just turned the ball over grabbed this offensive now player's shirt and like started to tug them and hold them back. And it was a full on take foul. And in my pickup run, that sparked a lot of controversy because I was. I mean, if we're just going to say you get possession and reset that on the side, then like, what are we doing? Because that should be score the basket. They should get a point for that. The team should get an additional possession as well. Like you should just not be allowed to take foul in pickup basketball. It's embarrassing, It's a joke. It's disrespectful. It sets a bad tenor for the rest of the tournament. It was. I was fuming. I was not alone there. So anti takes fouls in pickup. What are we doing? That is my take.
- [66:53]
Zena Kada
Wait, so then it's in pickup. I absolutely agree with you because it's.
- [66:58]
Sabrina Merchant
Never have foul rules and other levels of basketball.
- [67:02]
Ben Pickman
Do it in the pros, I'm okay with it. But pick up basketball. What are you doing?
- [67:07]
Sabrina Merchant
So your rule is that we have to let us like pick up basketball. That's the rule.
- [67:12]
Zena Kada
I was like, I was like. I thought we were talking about the W in college. No, no. Then it's like, can you come to my local gym and figure this out?
- [67:20]
Sabrina Merchant
You have in between being the rules analyst on every high level of women's college basketball game.
- [67:25]
Ben Pickman
Sir, sir. No pick, no pickup game should ever have a take foul. It's just ridiculous. All right? Let the person score their layup and get their moment in the sun with their easy basket.
- [67:37]
Zena Kada
Ben said, a penny for my thoughts in my free time.
- [67:41]
Sabrina Merchant
This is what I do, okay?
- [67:42]
Zena Kada
We're trying to help the actual leagues and associations. He was like, listen, we got some problems at home.
- [67:48]
Ben Pickman
No, I was not the player who would have had a layup or committed the foul. I should be very clear for all those who might think otherwise, well, listen.
- [67:56]
Zena Kada
It means that we need yalls help. Those of you listening, A penny for your thought. Ben couldn't help us on the WNBA and the college side. Can you help us? I like, I like the jump ball thing. I think actually that's a legitimate one that should be reviewed and considered for the wnba. I'm happy they changed the headband rule. We'll see about, you know, anything else that's happening. Another thing that was really cool that I saw change this year, the hot stove, if you guys know what I'm talking about. It means when a guard is guarding a perimeter player or really anybody when they're just touching the backs or the sides of them just to like, make sure they keep. They're keeping active, that is no longer immediately a foul, okay? Because it's not inhibiting their ability to dribble or getting them off balance. It's just basically just staying in front or just making sure that you're. You're keeping up with them. The second it becomes something where you're changing their path and direction to direct and direction, that's when it's a foul. Thank you. Thank you, ncaa, for changing that rule because it was silly to begin with. All right, Ben, you threw me for a loop with that one. But we gotta close out today's show, y'. All. That is all we've got for you. Reminder, if you've got some questions about the cba, college hoops, your cities being left off, or rules that aren't for your pickup basketball games before the actual WNBA or ncaa, make sure you send those over also. So we've got a listener survey. Go to the show Notes, go check those out. Make sure you fill that out for us. And wherever you're listening, follow our show. If you're watching on YouTube, please subscribe. We want to make sure that you don't miss out on all the breakdowns that Sabrina, Ben and me, just adding stuff on at the end, have to offer. We want to hear from you guys and head on over to our partner, the Yahoo Sports hub for more content@sports yahoo.com Womens sports on behalf of the athletic Sabrina Merchant, Ben Pickman, and me, Zena Kada. Thanks for listening and we'll see you next time. No off season is hosted by Zena Kada with Chantel Jennings, Sabrina Merchant, and Ben Pickman. It's produced by Tanika Burrell. Our executive producer is Andrea B. Scott. Our theme music is by Marcus Bagala. Monica Compton is our video editor. Shannon Ryan is managing editor of Women's Basketball at the Athletic. Jessie Burton is our Head of audio and Tim McMaster is director of Audio Operations.
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