← No Offseason: The Athletic Women's Basketball Show
No Offseason: The Athletic Women's Basketball Show
Who's leading the Rookie of the Year race?
01:04:00
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- [00:01]
Zena Kada
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- [00:12]
Ben Pickman
Sometimes 25.
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Zena Kada
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- [01:20]
Sabrina Merchant
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- [01:42]
Ben Pickman
There to watch em.
- [01:43]
Sabrina Merchant
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- [02:50]
D'Angelo
Love.
- [02:51]
Unknown
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- [04:59]
Ben Pickman
For the athletic I'm Zena Kaeda and this is the Athletic Women's Basketball Show. Foreign welcome back to the Athletic Women's Basketball show where we are here to talk all things women's hoops. Whether you're a die hard fan that eats, sleeps and breathes the game or you're a casual fan looking to learn more, make sure to subscribe to this pod wherever you get your pods to stay up to date with us. Also, make sure to subscribe to the Athletic. You do not want to miss out on the year round in depth coverage of the game you love. Today, I am joined by athletic women's basketball writers, as I always am, Sabrina Merchant and Ben Pickman. I'm Zena Kada. Again, let's go through what we're going to cover today. Called our scout. First up, we talked a little bit about All Star in our last show, but the teams are now out. Lots of interesting pairings on both sides of the matchup. We'll talk all those that reaction of what we like, what we don't like. I'm sure there's not much we don't like. We're just excited for the games. Then we're going to talk about some upsets that happened over the week. Um, yeah. Sabrina, Ben, you're going to have to tell me what went wrong, what went right. We'll look at the top three upsets from over the weekend and break down exactly what happened. And then last but not least, ooh, some of y'all are antsy, antsy over this Rookie of the Year race and you're trying to figure out, well, how is it going to be decided? Remember, guys, it's only halfway through the season, so we do have a little bit more time. But we're going to talk a little bit about what goes into coming up with the rookie of the year decision and also, where do we stand with that? All right, let's get it going. First up, All Star selections. So at the time that our show had came out last week, we were waiting on the All Star selections. They came out this past Tuesday and man, I'm excited. First thing that popped up in my mind was Caitlin Clark, Angel Reese, both making the All Star team. The this is not the teen USA team. This is the WNBA All Star team. And before we even get into, you know, them making that, that was probably the number one thing that popped out of my mind. I want to first reiterate how these teams are broken out because there's teams, players that people may have voted for that aren't on the WNBA All Star team, but they're on the Team USA team. Let's just remind our listeners how does that break down? Sabrina, can you walk me through that?
- [07:37]
Unknown
Yeah, absolutely. So we have Team usa, which is the team that will be competing for the gold medal in Paris, the eighth consecutive gold medal for the Americans, and that was selected by USA Basketball. And then we have an Additional all star team, which is called Team wnba, which was voted on by fans, media players and then ultimately filled out by the coaches, fans, media, players all had the opportunity to vote for players who were on USA Basketball's team and also ones who were not on that team. So it was a mix of all those that got selected in that first round of voting. And then the coaches got to select the remaining, I want to say, seven or eight players who did not, who were chosen from a pool of 36 after the original round of fan media player voting.
- [08:23]
Ben Pickman
Got it. Okay. And that's the part, too that some people were a little bit confused about of the selection from the pool being chosen by the coaches. And I know that that was one of the ways that Angel Reese was able to join the team. Was there anyone else that when you look at that, the remainder of that roster that was chosen from the pool, was there anyone that caught your eye that the coaches put into that mix?
- [08:50]
Unknown
I would say a couple of the guards caught my eye. You know, Kelsey Mitchell being a third selection from the Indiana Fever who are still below.500 was a little surprising to me, although she has come on quite strong of late. You know, we'll talk about the Fever later in the show, too. And then Alicia Gray was somebody that Ben and I hadn't even really considered in our backcourt discussion, but has probably been best player for the Atlanta Dream, however disappointing the Atlanta Dream have been. But those two names were kind of surprising to me on my list just considering the other names that ended up not making the ultimate All Star team.
- [09:20]
D'Angelo
Well, I was just going to spin it then maybe to the other way and players who made it, you know, on the fan vote. And that, I think is Aaliyah Boston, who, you know, an All Star starter last year, a unanimous reigning rookie of the year last year, and someone who of late has played really, really well, but got off to a slow start, especially to open this season as she tried to really figure things out with Caitlin Clark and Kelsey Mitchell and the rest of the Indiana Fever team. Not to name another Fever player again. We will mention them later, as Sabrina just said. But Aaliyah Boston got in because of the fan vote. And so, you know, she has played up to an All Star quality, I think, the second half of the first half of this year of late. But she is someone that if we talk about snubs and people who maybe have had more complete first 20 games of the season, that is one spot that I think a lot of people looked at and said, you know, that is a player that could have been interchangeable in that Aaliyah Boston spot. But, you know, this is a game for the fans. It is an exhibition. Aaliyah Boston's a great player and so she gets in and, you know, that's kind of how this works in an All Star Game showcase.
- [10:21]
Ben Pickman
Another thing that kind of popped out to me which was really special, dejuana Bonner being chosen as another All Star. I mean, you even looked at her games this weekend. She just continues to get better in her 15th year of play. It was pretty special to see her be a part of this team as well as Brianna Jones. And then on the other end of the aisle on Team usa, Alyssa Thomas. And for those of you who don't know, dejuana Bonner is Alyssa Thomas's fiance and vice versa. So going up against, you know, the two, that home is going to be so split. I'm just wondering what Cali and Demi Dewana's twins are going to be like, who they're going to be rooting for and just, just kind of split across the roster. Not only them, but there were a lot of different pairings that you could say are going up against each other. Sabrina, that you called out in your, your recap of, you know, this past week, your WNBA power rankings, like some of the pairings call out some of the ones that were interesting to you.
- [11:24]
Unknown
Yeah, I mean, a couple that I did actually didn't even mention in the power rankings. You've got two Minnesota links in the FISA, Collier and Caleb McBride on opposite sides. You've got Jonquil Jones on team WNBA against Brianna Stewart and Sabrina Unescu. Obviously you mentioned the Connecticut player is highlighted by the fiances Dewana Bonner and Eliz Thomas, which let's hope they guard each other. That's going to be just tremendous fun if and when that happens in Phoenix. But a couple other things that came to mind, like obviously Aaliyah Boston, as Ben mentioned, was not someone that he and I had selected to be the be on the team. But always a good time when Aaliyah Boston gets to go up against the ultimate South Carolina front court star in Asia Wilson. We get DE Erica Hamby against all of the Las Vegas aces, which we know is a very big deal for Derek Hamby to play against Las Vegas. If only Becky Hammond were coaching that team. But you know, definitely a big deal whenever Hamby gets to play against her former teammates. Just Caitlin Clark and Angel Reese being on the same team is a lot of fun. And Caitlin Clark getting to play against, you know, Sabrina Nescu and Diana Tarazi, Kelsey Plum, the players who have come before her as great scoring guards out of college. So just a lot of really interesting pairings that could, you know, potentially show up in this game, provided both teams take it seriously. I hope that is the case because that did happen in 2021, and I sincerely hope that we get another competitive rematch in 20, 2024.
- [12:43]
Ben Pickman
I just feel like it's inevitable that this is competitive, especially now that it we've seen these rosters and all of these little mini games being played within the big game of whether you're fighting for, you know, who's the best on your team or you want, you know, you represent your team, or fighting for home rights in the Dawana Bonner, Alyssa Thomas matchup. Like it? There's so much at play here, so many storylines. That's what I'm really, really excited for now. Like I said when I said the thing that popped out for me the most, Caitlin Clark, Angel Reese on the same team. This is going to be very exciting. I'm trying to figure out, of course, Caitlin Clark's got her teammate Aaliyah Boston, which we've seen the chemistry between the two of them bubble in the course of this season. But Ben, Ben, I'm just trying to think of Caitlin Clark, the first assist from Caitlin Clark to Angel Reese, the eruption that is going to happen out in Phoenix.
- [13:40]
D'Angelo
Yeah, I mean, that's definitely going to be super exciting. Now we'll have to see when it comes to this game because if All Star Game history proves us right, especially this format, it's Arike Ogumbawale of the Dallas Wings who you should have your eye on. She was the MVP in this game when this format was last used in 2021. You know, not someone who, again, is not on Team usa. She probably is going to start in the backcourt if I, you know, or play a big role. I imagine she's due for another big game in. There are a lot of players like, you know, we talk about the competitiveness of this game. I do think this is a game that, you know, Clark and Reese are going to their headliners. It's awesome that they're in it. This is the first time that they are playing together in their careers and in their college careers as well. But, like, we'll see as rookies how they acclimate to this game. You know, I think so often in All Star Games, it is not the rookies that set the tone. It is the veterans. Right. We'll see. You know, how power players like Origay or Jonquill or, you know, Kelsey Mitchell or Neca, like, how those players play and how Team USA plays. Like, they will dictate the, the tenor, the tempo, the physicality, the intensity. Like, I think Clark and Reese, like, you know, the new kids on the block. You're not dictating the play in pickup, so.
- [14:53]
Ben Pickman
Sure.
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D'Angelo
Right, right.
- [14:54]
Ben Pickman
You're just trying to make the team be on the floor.
- [14:55]
D'Angelo
Right. You're just adjusting to, like, who else is out there. You're reading, AM I going 80%, 85%, 100%, like, so I expect a little bit more feel out from Clark and Reece, but I do think some of those other players are due for some potentially big games if they want to have them.
- [15:10]
Ben Pickman
I'm actually really happy you brought up NECA K. Because I was watching ESPN's Off Day with Lachina Robinson in which she was talking to Neca and one of the quotes that she had was just talking about the. I'm paraphrasing here, but you know, when people come up to her, they say, you know, thank you so much for what you've done for the wnba. You know, from her position with the PA and Neca's like, I still want to play. Like, I'm still good. I'm still out here in these basketball streets capable of giving the business. And so I'm just, I'm seeing that this might be her opportunity to really shine. I mean, we've seen her shining with the Seattle Storm, but I would say Neca popping out will be something to look forward to as well.
- [15:53]
D'Angelo
Can I just throw a little bit of killjoy, you know, cold water on the game in the event with just some disappointment takeaways here. I mean, one, you know, this is a great showcase for the WNBA and Team usa. Obviously, I think it is a little disappointing that there's only one international player in this game that's Jonquil Jones. And so, you know, think about the NBA All Star Game and some of these other All Star Games and other sports. Oftentimes they are a great showcase for the globalization of the game and the kind of growth in that facet that is not the case in this game in Phoenix. Right. With just JJ being the lone international player, partly going off of that, of the reason why she is the lone international player. And you just mentioned Neca. I'll mention her teammate Ezzy Magn, the Australian center, one of the centerpieces of that, the Opals team that just was announced over the weekend as well. She is someone who, you know, I think was on my ballot and you could really make a case for her to be on the all star team. ESPN's Kevin Pelton actually made the case that she's the most egregious All Star Game snub in the history of the All Star Game. That was, I believe, something that he wrote along those lines. A similar, similar country. Staying in that vein, Alana Smith of the Minnesota Links. Someone else who I know Sabrina and I had on our All Star ballot as well, like someone else who I thought had a really strong case. She was my vote for most improved Player of the Year last year. Those are two international players who very deserving of All Star cases. Had they been on Team wnba, I don't think anyone would have had a gripe or a complaint. But they are not in the game. And so as a result, you have 23 of 24Americans. A great showcase for American basketball. Not as much for basketball around the.
- [17:24]
Unknown
World, but to be fair like those, the, the globalization of the game will be on display at the Olympics like two weeks after the All Star Game. So the fact that most of the players who would be eligible for Team WNBA are probably going to be participating with their national teams at that time, not even available to participate in the All Star Game, this is a, this is a good chance for Team USA to get ready for the Olympics. That's the greater goal for the wnba.
- [17:50]
D'Angelo
That's a great, that, that's a great point. I guess if the opals who were allegedly snubbed or think they were snubbed want the last laugh, they just go prove in the Paris Games or the Belgians as well. That's, that's a better showcase for them than this exhibition in Phoenix.
- [18:04]
Ben Pickman
All right, it's time to shift to the conversation that has taken over the WNBA world right now. And it is talking about the Rookie of the Year race. Now, of course, if you've been following us on the athletic and subscribe to our content, you know we do these rookie rankings. Benjamin Pickman, thank you for the work that you put in on that because I know it's not easy. This is one of the most tightly contested races of Rookie of the Year award giving that I remember in my, you know, in my time paying attention to this award and paying attention to these, this competition. But it's so interesting because the players that are being considered are so vastly different in the way that they're making their impact on the game. So I know there's been A lot of conversation about not liking the way someone is making a decision as to who who should be the top rookie. Right. Not necessarily liking the criteria, not liking what statistics they're looking at. Not looking at everything in people's opinions. Well, we're going to break down how we do it here at the Athletic. Ben, I want to ask your opinion and I want to ask yours as well, Sabrina, just like the Rookie of the Year award, what it should consider, what is considered, how it typically is awarded. And then I also want to talk a little bit about the history because of course, we got a lot of new listeners in the building. We got a lot of new watchers of the WNBA who may not know the WNBA Rookie of the Year award as anything other than this hotly competitive. Right. In the past years, it hasn't been that. So let's first start out with some history. Aaliyah Boston won this award outright last year, 60 votes directly to her. There was no question that she should win this award. Then year before that, Rein Howard. Of the 56 votes they had, she had majority of them. Melissa Smith got a vote. Shakira Austin got some votes. But overall majority of votes went to Rein Howard. This is typically what a lot of fans have seen. There's one rookie that stands out undeniably and that's who the award goes to. Not so easy this year. And we're only halfway through the season and it's still not getting any easier. So historically, Sabrina, Ben, has there been a race this tight before for the Rookie of the Year award?
- [20:29]
Unknown
So within the last four years, there's been one player that's gotten at least 90% of the votes over the last 10 Rookie of the Year races. I think six of them have involved a player getting 90% of the votes, at least if not unanimous, you know, you're talking about like Brianna Stewart got, I think all but one vote. Asia Wilson was unanimously a Boston unanimous like the names that you would think of. And generally, I think the reason that this is the case is because more often than not the number one pick is just the Rookie of the Year in the wnba. In the majority of cases, it's the number one pick. And so you go into the season with the expectation that, all right, I'm going to keep an eye on, let's say Caitlin Clark or Ryan Howard early of Boston and that's the prior that set. And at the end of the year, that tends to be what happens is the number one pick wins the Rookie of the Year award.
- [21:15]
Ben Pickman
Pretty simple. So knowing that that's not been the case, that things are pretty unanimous, things are pretty easy to see in terms of differentiating the rookie of the year from the rest of the rookies you're looking at this year, particularly between Caitlin Clark and Angel Reese, two incredibly different players for the way that they show up on the basketball court and the impact that they have. It's, it's hard to compare them directly against each other. They're not both guards, they're not both three point shooters, they're not both big time interior rebounders. Like they're, they're very different players. So criteria wise, Ben, when you do that, your rookie rankings, what are you looking at?
- [22:00]
D'Angelo
It's a good question and I think I will say like for the rookie rankings I write every week on the athletics.com I try and focus very much like of the moment, like of that last week and in some cases of the last two weeks, how is a rookie performing? And one of the reasons why I've taken that approach is because of some of the history that Sabrina mentioned that so often there was one rookie who asserts themselves as by far the best rookie in the class, you know, from the very beginning of the year and maybe it's one, maybe it's two or maybe it's three. But oftentimes there's not a lot of movement, there's not a lot of drama, there's not a lot of intrigue to, you know, how some of these rookies across the board are playing. Some years it's pretty hard to feel like an all rookie team and feel comfortable, you know, with the names that everyone selects on their ballot. So for that reason, you know, I've kind of taken the tact of let's stay like very much in the moment. That's not put together an all rookie ballot every year, but this is just a, a snapshot in time. Right? Leonie Fiebis, for instance, she is number three on my rookie rankings for last week. She's not, you know, necessarily the third best rookie. If we're going start to finish, you can maybe make a case. I don't necessarily think it's like a shoo in that she's the number third pick overall. But in the last two weeks of that kind of sample that I was looking at, she was in my estimation the third best rookie. She was someone who Sandy Brondello had been playing nearly 27 minutes per game. She had a net rating that was nearly plus 22. She'd been closing fourth quarters, playing nearly eight minutes per game in those fourth quarters becoming a key part of New York starting lineup or a closing lineup rather, when you know New York is the best team in the league. She is a key part of how they close games. So credit to her overall. She might make an all rookie team ballot, but you can certainly make a case that Rekia Jackson, who came in number five on my rookie ballot last year or last week, rather, has had a better first 20 games than Phoebus, for instance. So, you know, the history is kind of at play for when I think of this award. And we should mention to the point of number one picks like Angel Reese right now. She was the number seven pick in the draft. She would tie for the second lowest pick if she won this award. Crystal Dangerfield won it. I believe she was number 16 when she was the pick in 2020. But other than that, every other rookie since 1998 has been, you know, six or I guess higher six one through six. Reese would be, you know, an exception as the number seven pick. So that is a little bit of how I approach it. And then I'm just looking at, you know, watching games, watching film, seeing what, you know, counting stats, what some of the advanced metrics say, and just, you know, how are different players being used? That's kind of what I'm looking at in the short term. When I think about the rankings that I put together every single week on.
- [24:36]
Ben Pickman
The site, that makes complete sense. And I think that when you do it in that way, when you have just a snapshot of that week, it allows you to be more honest. Because, let's be real, sometimes some of these games run through together in your mind of like, oh, someone had a really great game and you completely forget that. Like, oh, yeah, that very next game, they had a ton of turnover, turnovers and, you know, poor shooting percentage or whatever it is. But you're. What's the word? Recency bias. Right? Like, sometimes you just forget that. And so I like that approach of just being able to go week by week and evaluating a player in that way. And then at the end of the year being able to say, okay, who had the best weeks or the most amount of great weeks. And then also looking at the stats now, the stats is what's interesting to me too, because a lot of people, the average listener will probably be like, well, you know, you look at the main things, points, rebounds, assists, steals, blocks, minutes played, maybe, and you're seeing, okay, who's the top five in those or who's the top in all those categories. But then you look at. Okay, well, what if someone doesn't get as much rebounds but they get a ton of assists? Or what if somebody doesn't shoot the ball incredibly well, but they're able to get a lot of second chance points, right? Like, how does the media typically weigh and rank these, these different statistical categories in terms of being able to assess a rookie's impact on their team?
- [26:02]
D'Angelo
I mean, I think it's frankly a pretty individual decision that a lot of different voters, myself included and Sabrina can maybe talk about her process too, have to make. I think actually, though, Xena, what is tougher to evaluate is not how points and rebounds and assists compare, but it is kind of the, I guess, maybe more abstract and there are statistics that track this, but something like usage rate, like this idea that Caitlin Clark, for instance, has to shoulder more than Angel Reese, like that is a common refrain that a lot of people are throwing out. And I do think, you know, there is some truth to it. You watch Caitlin Clark, she's getting blitzed, she's getting double team, they're guarding her 35ft out in front of the basket. She's on the top of every single opponent scouting report. Like, how do you kind of value that you're getting, you know, the best defender that is guarding you from game one to now, you know, game 22? And how do you weigh that with Angel Reese, who, you know, has had an unbelievable start to her career as well, but, you know, doesn't handle the ball obviously in the same way that, you know, Caitlin Clark does. And she's not getting double teamed every time she touches it in the post and in the paint. And sometimes she doesn't have the best big guarding her. Sometimes she does. Like, those kind of questions, I think often create a little bit more murkiness than just the kind of direct comparisons to counting stats, which I do think, you know, can be a very helpful tool in just creating a simple comparison.
- [27:23]
Ben Pickman
I'm so happy you brought up usage rate. And I know that a lot of people listening probably don't know that's. That don't know what it means. And it was something that I had to learn, you know, covering the NBA and figuring out, you know, what does usage rate, especially being someone that covers the warriors, you're looking at a Stephen Curry and how much he has the ball in his hand and his ability to produce in that same way. So I actually want to break down what usage rate means. If a player has a high usage rate, it basically means that they're frequently handling the ball and in Charge of making decisions that result in either a shot or a turnover. And whether that shot is made or missed, you know, that doesn't matter as much. It's just the percentage of the time that they would have the the ball in their hands and be directly utilized to have an outcome on the team. So if someone has a high usage rate, which Caitlin Clark right now has the highest usage rates among all rookies, and she's right above Angel Reese by about four points, four and a half points, you're now seeing a direct stat that shows someone that is slightly more in charge of the outcome a team may have on the court. The amount of passes that are, the amount of shots that are made, passes that are made, turnovers that happen, all of that just means that they're being used more. If you have a high use rate doesn't mean that you're better at being used. It just means that you're being used more.
- [28:52]
D'Angelo
And there was also, over the weekend, you know, a statistic that was going around that Caitlin Clark had scored or assisted on, scored and assisted, I guess, on for more points than any other player in the wnba. That's not, you know, usage rate per se, but that is another stat that is kind of being thrown out in her favor to show the direct impact she has on, you know, games and players and her team overall in comparison to, you know, Asia Wilson, Brianna Stewart, Angel Reese, everybody else.
- [29:20]
Unknown
Especially because usage rate doesn't actually take into account assists. It only counts the ones that that player directly ends the possession. So if Caitlin is passing to a teammate who scores, that's not even calculated in her usage. So you think about her usage already being at that level. If you would account for her passing and playmaking, it just the amount of time that the ball is in her hands just exponentially increases.
- [29:41]
Ben Pickman
Highly recommend you all to go. If you're looking@wnba.com and you're trying to have this conversation with your friends of who's the better rookie and you're looking at stats, go to the advanced stats page and start, you know, trickling through that because that does tell you a lot more things like assist percentage or assist ratio of just how efficient a player is in their ability to create assists relative to the number of possessions that they're involved in. Like these types of things will tell you things like how impactful is someone in being able to generate rebounds, second chance points, additional opportunities, points through assists. Like those, I think give more of a definition to how a player is directly impacting their team versus just how Many points do they score? How many total blocks do they have? What are their rebounds? Sabrina, for you, when you're looking at, I know we've talked to you before about, you know, how you make your MVP votes and how you make all of these different awards throughout the WNBA for Rookie of the year, when this is your first, your first chance to see these players and you're thinking about their impact on a team that they weren't on before, right. You're looking at what the team did last year comparison where they are this year. And now you're also looking at a player that is integrating to themselves into the not only the WNBA but their team as well for the first time. How do you make sense of trying to evaluate those very big concepts? It only, I mean it's only halfway through the season.
- [31:14]
Unknown
Yeah, I mean it's interesting. I've had to think about this a lot because in addition to voting on WNB awards, I get to vote in this AP power pool every week and we're being asked to submit a mid season rookie of the year. And so that's something that I have to decide on by the end of the day. But yeah, I think, I think with rookie of the year, like I try to keep it as singularly focused on this particular season. I know some people like to think even as a tiebreaker, just which rookie they think is going to have a better career down the line and if they have more potential that they showcase in this season, that makes them a more deserving rookie of the year. Like if you think about like sometimes you look at past rookies of the year and you're like, well they definitely weren't the best player to come out of the draft class. And does that make you think less of that award or not? I don't know. But I like to keep it just entirely focused on that particular season. Individual production, like obviously box score stuff matters, like how much are you actually impacting your team while you're on the court? I like, I like to just look at like plus minus. I know single game plus minus is kind of a wonky stat because within the context of an individual game like lineups can vary if you're just happen to be on the court while someone goes on a hot shooting streak, yada yada yada. But I think over the course of, you know, 20 games looking at plus minus obviously makes a big difference. Just like how much a team gets better when you're on the court versus when you're off the court. Like if you think about A team like Indiana, most of their players aren't going to have a positive plus minus because they've been outscored by a lot this season. But if they're better with like Caitlin Clark on the Court vs. Erica Wheeler or Christy Wallace or any of the other backup ball handlers that happen to be on the fever, then that matters to me. So I just like to see that a player is having a positive impact in a large number of minutes. Like if your role is pretty small and narrow, that's just not as impressive to me as someone who is doing stuff that is more expansive and like having to shoulder a larger load for the team.
- [33:04]
Ben Pickman
Absolutely agree. And I think that's one of the things that a lot of folks that are doing their own research on stats and things of that sort should be aware of. When you're filtering for things, make sure you're filtering for players that are actually playing in games and also playing significant minutes. Right. Because if you just do a straight up cold search and filter for most points score or best three point percentage, some players have 100% three point percentage and they've played in one game and they've shot two shots and you know, they've made it. So it is important to make sure you get that, that criteria set of having played significant minutes and insignificant significant games.
- [33:43]
Unknown
Yeah, like, for example, of like the top five rookies in net writing, four of them are Celeste Taylor, Alyssa Peely, Charisma Osborne and Olivia Pupa. And but let's be real, none of them are going to make my old rookie team. They just have not played enough. Celeste Taylor, God bless her, is no longer even in the league. So, yeah, the minutes, criteria, games played criteria, always important to add to this process.
- [34:03]
Ben Pickman
All right, the time has come, folks. We got it, we got it. We got to discuss it. All right. Because let's just be real. The race between the Rookie of the Year right now is very clearly between Angel Reese and Caitlin Clark. Both of them have made history already as rookies within the WNBA, within their respective teams, and they've made different types of history as well. Being the first players to achieve certain accolades, achieve certain stat combinations. You know, 13 consecutive double doubles for Angel Reese at the time that we're recording this first triple double for Caitlin Clark. First player or the fastest player to reach 350 points and 150 assists in Caitlin Clark. I mean, it's just there's a lot of different things that both of them have been able to do. As Carolyn Peck said about Angel Reese, she's putting up, quote, grown woman numbers in the wnba. I mean, there's a lot here in terms of accolades, accomplishments, statistical feats, but only one can win, and we're halfway through the season. And so I want to ask you both what you think.
- [35:17]
Unknown
I think right now I would lean towards Caitlin Clark. As I mentioned, just the. The role itself is really important. I think it's a lot harder for guards to succeed immediately in the wnba. You know, we've seen this with Sabrina taking a little bit of time to get to an all star level and Kelsey Plum, you know, coming in as the number one score in college basketball. She didn't even get a rookie of the year vote the year that she was drafted. Like, think about how hard it was for her to make that jump from college to the pros. So I think the level of difficulty is just harder for guards. And to think of like, the schedule that was thrown at the Indiana Fever and all that is asked of Caitlin as the point guard on that team, I think just that that responsibility is a lot harder. And then she's been just pretty, pretty damn good, right? Like, she's going to have, I think, the second highest assist average of any rookie in league history behind only Tisha Penichero. The three pointer is, you know, not as good as you would have expected for Caitlin coming out of college, but she's still making, you know, about 33% of them, which is not terrible. Rebounding the ball at a high rate, shooting free throws well, like starting to lead the fever towards wins. So I think just because the WNBA seems to me like a league that is more easier to succeed in as a power forward. Like, you think about all of the best players in the league, they're. A lot of them are power forwards. The. The role that Caitlin has had to carve out seems to be more challenging to me. So the fact that she has succeeded in that lane is why, like, at this very particular moment on July 8, I'm picking her as my rookie of the year.
- [36:55]
D'Angelo
I mean, I like when we don't talk about things and we have, like, slight disagreements here and I think I would probably lean slightly, slightly, slightly to Angel Reese in this conversation at this, this very moment in time. But I'm glad that Sabrina brought up the slow scheduling start for the Indiana Fever because I think that's kind of one of the things that I'm watching for and went back and actually had to look up as I was doing research for, to prepare for this podcast and just checking in on different things as I Do. If you look at net rating overall for Angel Reese and Caitlin Clark when they're on the floor, Reese's + 2.3. So far as we're taping this on Monday afternoon, Clark is minus 8.1. But if you look after June 3rd so that is the day after Indiana ended its 11 game in 20 day stretch, Reese is just plus 1.3 and Clark is a minus 0.5. So that is a much closer you know difference between the two. And what that tells me is that Caitlin Clark is settling in Indiana is playing better and I think you know the eyes lead check with that. Like as Angel Reese has, you know been on this double double streak and she's up to 13 a WNBA record as we've talked about. Caitlin Clark too has gone up I think you know and been more productive, she's been more impactful. She's certainly settled into her role and I think made some good adjustments as she's played teams a second, third and in the case of New York a fourth time around this season. And I do think if you're looking at the Clark candidacy like that is a something that is worth watching for in the second half of the year. Does it continue on with that trend now to Angel Reese? I mean I just look at it like Sabrina makes the point that forwards have the easier time potentially acclimating. Well I can spin the argument and say forward is the toughest position in the WNBA and she's going up against the Alyssa Thomas's, Brianna Stewart, John Qual Jones, Nafisa Collier type players Neko Gumake like on a night in a night out basis. And that is why what she has done is so impressive that you know a fever a Chicago sky team rather that many thought was rebuilding retooling potentially if you want to use some of the language that they use this year, not a playoff team and you know frankly like the talent around it I think in a lot of people's views is not the same as Indiana, right. Aaliyah Boston, Kelsey Mitchell, those are both all stars. Marina Mabry I think make us a case for an all star. Kennedy Carter as we talked about I think makes a case for an all Star. But you know I think Angel Reese is again like reason number one that they and maybe Carter is 1A 1B like that the Chicago sky or turned it around the way that they have and put themselves in the position where they have 22 games in her streak is really impressive that she doesn't night out in the toughest position in the WNBA I think is really impressive and I'm just looking at full total body of work. You do see some improvement. Her field goal percentage has gone up a little bit of late. There's definitely still room for growth there. You know, for a while she was shooting sub 40% from the field and around the rim, you know, below average, significantly league wide. So there's plenty of room for growth there. But you know, what Reese has done consistently I think is really, really impressive. And maybe it is a smidge of recency bias with the 27 and 10 and a 12 and 19 in recent days. But you know, I kind of give her a slight nod through 22 games or 20 games and I guess we'll have to see in the All Star break. Maybe things will flip by the time the All Star game happens and maybe they'll flip even more towards the end of the year. But it's definitely going to be a close race down to the end here.
- [40:26]
Unknown
Can you imagine how close this race would be if Cameron Brink were healthy for the entirety of the regular season?
- [40:30]
Ben Pickman
I was going to say that. I was going to say that. I mean it would be so impossible, especially considering again, you've got a player, you got three different players that impact the game so differently. I mean, Cameron Brink was defensive player of the year material, right? Like not even just rookie material, like big time WNBA level accolades and accomplishments. I do love when smart people break down their explanations for where they sit because you're seeing now like the full nuance of how to evaluate this and also the complexity behind trying to evaluate this fairly and evenly, especially this early in the season. And I believe I want to make sure I correct myself. I think I said 13 double doubles. Angel has 14 double doubles. At the time that we're recording, she's.
- [41:21]
Unknown
13 in a row. So. Also correct.
- [41:23]
Ben Pickman
Yeah, 13 in a row. 14 total. Unbelievable numbers. If some of you guys have been seeing some of my WNBA content in which I'm z capping, recapping Z capping. You get it. My content for the rookies. I did do my own breakdown of, you know, how would I assess this and I went the statistical route and I looked at 30 different statistical categories. Yes, Ben just made his eyes very large. 30 different statistical categories. And I'll break down my whole process, which I'll do in this video too if you want to catch it. But, but basically Sabrina mentioned earlier, you want to make sure that people are playing considerable time. I filter for people that played in at least half or more of their games and also average 15 minutes or more in those games. That left me for the retire rookie class. I filtered for that. That left me with 11 players. Out of the 11 players. I had to remove Cam Brink because of course she's not able to to finish her rookie season. However, I will say of the 30 categories I looked at, Cam Brink was top five amongst all rookies in eight of them having only played 15 games. So very much was making a case for herself for this award. But then after I had that all broken down, out of the 30 different categories, I looked at who was in the top five of each one of those categories. I will say this. Caitlin Clark had the number one spot in one third of all those categories. Okay, Angel Reese had the number one spot in 11. So Caitlin Clark had 10. Angel Reese had 11 number one spots in those 30 categories. Now the things that stood out to me when you look at this breakdown was that when you look at the assist column, assist per game, total assists, the assist turnover ratio, the assist percentage in a game, and assist ratio overall, Caitlin Clark was either number one in all those categories or top five. And the only category in which she was not top five, which makes sense was her assist to turnover ratio. Because let's just be real, turnovers have been a problem for Ms. Clark, but she was still better than Angel Reese in that category. She had 1.33, whereas Angel Reese had 1.03. Okay, but then on the same, same boat here, same boat. You look at points off turnovers, second chance points, fast break points, points in the paint, and Jarice was a number one across all of those categories. However, Clark did chart in the top five. Right here are two different categories in which both of them are very dominant. Yet in one category someone's still showing up. Clark was still showing up in those categories, whereas angel was not at all when it came to the assist part of her game. Of course, Caitlin Clark also similar thing in the three point percentage, three point percentage, total threes, etc dominated those categories and Jerriese did not show up because of these type of discrepancies. Where there were entire portions of games in which one rookie showed up and dominated where the other rookie, Angel Reese did not. That's what made me have Caitlin Clark have a slight edge over Angel Reese. That was my breakdown and I also incorporated two other statistics that Ben mentioned before. Usage rate, Clark was at a 24.4 out of 100 possessions. Clark would be involved with at 24 and a half of those possessions. However, they turned out Reese was at 20.9. So less usage, less involvement in what's going on in play in the on the court. And then net rating. Reese did have a higher net rating as Ben mentioned. She was at 2.3. Caitlin Clark was at negative 8.1. But again, for me, thinking about the shouldering of an offense, the shouldering of what's going on on the court, that being a slightly higher, I thought that was more impactful than net rating. And that's what slightly, and I emphasize the word slightly has. Caitlin Clark over Angel Reese today as of July 8, 2024. So that was very long. But hopefully you guys understand all of our reasonings. But we'll see what happens. This is what's so fun. We're nowhere near done, folks. There's still a second half to play.
- [46:13]
D'Angelo
It's why like, you know, as in this conversation and I think so many others, especially around the rookies, like all year long Caitlin Clark and Angel Reese have talked about grace as one of these words that they use a lot of times, you know, in press conferences as they talk about their acclimation to the wnba. And like, you know, people can disagree about who they think is the rookie of the year. They can disagree now and they can disagree in September when voting is finalized. And you heard, I think on the show, hopefully, some measured and rational cases for both players as to why they should be the award. And you know, I think, I think we showed each other some grace in our cases and some senses of understanding and I think like that is a good way to have this conversation. Now I'm not going to suggest if you go out with your friends, a usage rate. I don't know if you're like, it's someone's instinct to just like go over food throw out usage rate and assisted turnover percentage and you know, field goal percentage of shots outside of 30ft. But like, you know, to each their own. But just have some grace in this conversation as people continue to have it.
- [47:21]
Ben Pickman
It's a wonderful point, Ben, because what we're saying today may completely change in a week. It will could, I imagine it could completely change by the end of this season when things like where a team ends up in the standings if they're making playoffs, things like that starts to be more of an impactful measure of how a rookie may have impacted their team. These things are going to be fluid, flexible. That's actually what makes it fun. So please folks, do not concretize, you know, our thoughts into July 8. The Athletics said this, this is where we're at. Just watch the games and keep watching how these players are improving. What's really cool is that we're seeing both Caitlin Clark and Angel Reese evolve in a way that seems unnatural, how quickly they have adapted themselves to the wnba. But I appreciate Ben and Sabrina for breaking it down. The season's not over. There's a lot more basketball to be played. And just like Ben said, you never know what can happen after the All Star Game. Um, lots of surprises could be in store for us. Hell, Camila Cardoso could start shooting threes like she did against that game in Tennessee. You never know, folks. All right, so I'm gonna go through some upsets. There were three major ones over the course of the weekend. Number one, Los Angeles Sparks, 98, Las Vegas Aces, 93, Chicago sky, like I said, 88 to the Seattle Storm, 84. And then New York Liberty going down against the Indiana fever, 78 to 83. So we're going to do a fun little game called what Went Right, what Went Wrong. Because when you look at these scores, you look at these teams, particularly that went down, they've been solid. They feel as if they are in the middle of their season, striding and really connected in with what it takes to win, especially beating some of these kind of scrappier teams, like a Chicago, like an Indiana. And yet it is the wnba, folks, and you really never know what to expect. So let's start with the storm. Chicago vs Seattle on Friday night at Climate Pledge Arena. I had a couple of friends in the building. Energy was right. Everything. Doppler, their mascot, was on point. You know, things were good, apparently, up in Climate Pledge Arena. But then something went right for one team and something went wrong. Sabrina, let's kick it off. Tell me what went right for the Chicago Sky.
- [49:58]
Unknown
Two words. Kennedy Carter, minimum contract coming into this season. She was out of the league in 2023. And honestly, like, not to look too far ahead, but her free agency in this upcoming offseason is one of the most fascinating stories, I think, in the WNBA in 2025. But Kennedy Carter, like, can you keep her out of the paint? Just anyone in the wnba, is it possible to get Kennedy Carter to not have two feet in the paint on an offensive possession? Haven't seen it yet. I was really excited for this matchup because Jordan Horston, by my money, one of the best defenders in the league. Really long, really athletic, can guard, wings, guards, all positions. She had no prayer against Kennedy Carter, so just, you know, she sets a season high for points against the Storm, eclipsing Jackie Young's 32 with 33 of her own in this game. Just like every offensive possession, Seattle is in a terrible state of rotation because Kennedy has collapsed the defense by getting right to the basket. Things have got amok and now we have to, you know, throw out fires everywhere. Also kind of a problem when Seattle makes about as many threes as Angel Reese does in the game like that. Another issue. But yeah, I think the thing, the main thing that went right for Chicago here was they have an absolute superstar in Kennedy Carter at guard. She just gets to her spots whenever she wants to and against a really, really good defense like Ben mentioned, helmed by Ezzy Maggore. I think she and Nakaguma K have really solid all defense consideration this season. You wouldn't know it from that game, just the all of the difficulty that Seattle was put in.
- [51:27]
Ben Pickman
All right, well you're skipping ahead a little bit to what I was going to say of what went wrong for Seattle. It seems like it's definitely in tandem with Kennedy Carter, but it also was spread out from the perspective of where was the prowess of Skyler Diggins Smith and Jewel Lloyd being able to overpower the guards on on defense for Chicago Sky.
- [51:50]
D'Angelo
Yeah, I mean that really was the difference. I mean Sabrina mentioned Kennedy Carter in that 24 field goal attempts that she took in that game. That is her career high. Like she was just going and going and going and had no signs of stopping and she was the best guard on the floor on Friday night. Now what went wrong for the Storm? And I like kind of playing the negative role I guess on this podcast where I'm just mucking everyone's yum here. You know, Sabrina mentioned it. It was the three and 19 from three and that's Seattle's worst three point shooting night since their opening game of the season. That's less than 16% on the year. And this is a team that throughout the season if you just watch their games and look at their box scores like they've had some off nights shooting the three ball especially early on in the season. But this was, as I was saying, this is, you know, a sign of the Seattle Storm. It looked a lot more like the Seattle Storm from the first few games of the year when they were very much still figuring out than the team that went on a multi game win streak midway through this first half. The other thing that I think is significant and really this was a close and competitive game in the third quarter in which Chicago shot over 60% from the field was the difference. They outscored Seattle 30 to 22 in that quarter. That was the difference in the game, frankly. The other thing that I think is of note, and we have a direct comparison to, you know, the game they played on Sunday, is that, you know, Noel Quinn on Sunday's game, she ended up just shrinking her rotation to seven players. And she kind of said after, like, enough is enough. In other words, like, we're just going to play a playoff rotation. We're going to play our best players and we're going to ride them. Right. Whereas on the Friday night game, she ended up playing nine players and some only played a few minutes. Joyner Holmes and Victoria Vivian's. But her rotation was a little bit more spread out. Whereas I think you saw a more focused Seattle Storm team and a team that basically said, heading into this game on Sunday, we're not going to lose to Chicago twice, especially at home. So that was one of the big differences between just, you know, the first time they matched up in this series and the second.
- [53:39]
Ben Pickman
Absolutely. You could see the resolve in that second game. And I thought it was hilarious how their social media teams were playing back and forth. If you didn't see the tweet that Chicago sky put out on Friday night, heavy emphasis on the. You thought. And then Seattle Storm played that exact line back to them after they beat them on Sunday. 84, 71. So there was a lot. There was, there was tension between, not only on the court, but through the front offices as well. Another thing that seemed to be the saving grace in that second game between the Chicago sky and the Seattle Storm, Sammy Whitcomb, like, she was hitting her three, she was making some big time shots. And I think that we've seen throughout this wnba, anytime you have someone that can come off the bench and give you a spark, give you another lift, that's an advantage, a huge advantage that doesn't necessarily need to be your sixth player of the year, but is something that you're not counting on that you can now pull out of your back pocket and give you a major lift.
- [54:38]
D'Angelo
Xena, do you know, do you know where Sammy Wickham is from?
- [54:40]
Ben Pickman
I do not. Tell me, tell me more.
- [54:42]
D'Angelo
She's. She, she's from Australia.
- [54:44]
Ben Pickman
Oh, there you go.
- [54:46]
D'Angelo
This is just a pro Opal's Australia podcast. That's what I'm trying to put it into.
- [54:50]
Ben Pickman
I'm sure Ezzy Maggore was like, yes, girl, represent for us. Thank you. Putting on for our country. All right, let's move forward to the west coast. Out in Los Angeles, Las Vegas. Interesting loss this was out in crypto.com arena and I'll say, you know what? No, I'm going to let you say, Sabrina, tell me what went wrong for the Aces.
- [55:15]
Unknown
All right, so we go from nine and a half point favorites in Seattle to 12 and a half point favorites for Las Vegas. They had come in winning six consecutive games since Chelsea Grays return to the lineup. Starting to look like the Las Vegas Aces, you know, and love the two time defending champs, um, coming to Los Angeles. LA is without Cambrink, you know, since the last time they've met. LA has lost eight games in a row since the last time they've met. Meanwhile, Vegas has returned Chelsea and Jackie Young to the lineup. So, you know, seems like the perfect storm for Vegas to exact a small amount of revenge from their previous defeat. And yet Dr. Canvy just really, really loves playing the Las Vegas Aces. She said it's going to be probably personal for her for a very long time, you know, not just because they're the best team in the league, you know, the defending champs. Also because of the fact that they told her that in her words, she wouldn't be able to play basketball like she had been following her second child. So.
- [56:15]
Ben Pickman
And she's better.
- [56:16]
Unknown
Very, very personal for Derek and Amy.
- [56:18]
Ben Pickman
She's better.
- [56:19]
Unknown
I would say the main thing that went wrong for the Aces, other than the fact that, you know, Sparks take this game very seriously, is that they decided not to play defense for about four quarters. And it's a tough thing to do, you know, win a basketball game on the road without playing defense. But really I think the matchup I would highlight the most is that Arie McDonald's similar to Kennedy Carter against Seattle, just having her way with that matchup, you know, able to get into the paint pretty regularly, kicking out, had a career high in points, gets to go up against her former Washington Huskies teammate Kelsey Plum, who stubbornly stuck with Arie the entire time. Even though like Jackie Young exists and theoretically could have guarded Arie McDonald for part of this game. Still unclear as to why that remained the case for the entirety of 45 minutes because this game did go into overtime. But yeah, just, you know, this is a team that features two time defensive player of the year in Asia Wilson. And again, you wouldn't really know that this was one of the best defenses in the league. They haven't played like it this year. They certainly did not play like it against Los Angeles.
- [57:22]
Ben Pickman
Yeah, Becky Hammond mentioning this is like the worst defensive performance she's ever seen. Her team out of her team. And Derek Ahamby is an amazing player, do not get me wrong. Sending a player like D'Erica Hamby who is aggressive to the basket, to the line 15 times, you. You can't win basketball games that way. And it was so interesting because Asia Wilson got 35 points right, like she put up everything she could against this team, but they just couldn't find reprieve from the players that weren't necessarily supposed to drop 20 plus points like an Erie McDonald. All right, well, now let's talk about what went right for the Los Angeles Sparks. Outside of DE Erica Hamby just going.
- [58:04]
Unknown
Off well, continuing a theme on this podcast, Stephanie Talbot, another member of the Opals, her team Australia.
- [58:10]
Ben Pickman
There you go.
- [58:11]
Unknown
She has been in the starting lineup, you know, of late for the Sparks. Since the injury to camp Rink, they're playing a little bit smaller. And this high low combination between Talbot and Dr. Hamby is something special. Talbot sets a career high with nine assists. She mentioned how, you know, she doesn't usually play at the forward spot. She's much more comfortable playing a guard role on the perimeter and that's why she fancies herself such a good facilitator. So it's a little bit different when she's doing this, you know, front court dynamic with Derrick Hamby versus her normal facilitating. But the Sparks only had three turnovers the entire game for 45 minutes. And Kurt Miller credits it to, you know, not only do they have Ari McDonald playing a great game, but they had just multiple ball handlers in every position, including Steph Talbot playing power forward and just regularly throwing these lobs over the top to Dr. Kahambi. Aces are just powerless to stop it because they don't have enough ball pressure. Dear. Hamby keeps getting behind the defense. Just really good front court connection between Talbot and Hamby, something I don't think any Sparks fan really envisioned coming into this season. But that is what transpired against the Las Vegas Aces. And just a really cool night to see so many different people unexpectedly showcase their skills and unexpected skills for the Sparks. But yeah, I would say, you know, obviously Hamby's number one star going to get majority of the credit, but Talbot being able to provide just another capable ball handler because Sparks have just been a terrible turnover team all season to, you know, keep them in control and then deliver the ball to your best player over and over again. Really important for la.
- [59:39]
Ben Pickman
Okay, Opals, Opal fans, you've learned your lesson for next WNBA All Star. Get your votes up, people, because clearly your girls are Showing up and exactly right. The same way that Sammy Witcom was someone that you could pull off the bench and be a spark for the storm. Here's Stephanie Talbot coming in off the bench into the starting lineup and becoming a spark in that way. Pun intended. But anyways, that was a really big time win. And before we close this out, a budding rivalry. I know you wrote something about this, Sabrina. Do you actually think this could be a rivalry between these two teams?
- [60:18]
Unknown
I think they have to play in the playoffs first. You know, I am a firm believer that postseason matchups are what really engenders beef, and we're just not there yet. Like, it's. It's one thing for the Sparks to get up when they play the Aces, but if you sandwich it with losses to the Mystics and the Mercury at home, like, does Las Vegas really care that they lost you? I'm not so sure how much, but clearly it means a lot to Hamby. It means a lot to Eric Donald to play against Kelsey Plum. Kurt Miller and Becky Hammond have known each other for ages, since Becky Hammond was a teenager, you know, and playing in college. So there's a lot of familiarity. Even considering the fact that this is a 12 team league and everybody knows each other. Just a lot of familiarity. Chelsea's from Southern California or California. Kelsey's from Southern California. If the Sparks were to, like, get back into, like, some form of contention, I think this could be something. For now, it's just a fun little quirk on the WNBA schedule, let's put it that way.
- [61:11]
Ben Pickman
Absolutely. Okay, well, I'm looking forward to every time they match up because that game was a lot of fun. But yeah, like you said, 12 teams in the league, lots of familiarity. You can almost find some sort of connection every single time a team plays. Now let's talk about the New York Liberty and the Indiana Fever. Biggest upset by far, by far. I don't think anyone saw this coming. Indiana Fever playing at home at Gainbridge Field House against the New York Liberty. Something I've noticed in these games in which they're. They've take. They've taken losses. Particularly I think about the Commissioner's cup game with the New York Liberty and the Minnesota Links. Jonquil Jones not being a major factor offensively. Six points in this game against the Fever. I'm not sure if that's the number one thing that went wrong for New York, but I'd love to ask what went wrong for New York?
- [62:10]
D'Angelo
I know we've been very high on Australians and the Australian national team. On this podcast, Sandy Brandello, the coach of the New York Liberty and the Opals, not exactly her best, best performance and the best performance of her team in this game. You mentioned it. Jacqueline Jones, you know, six points overall on the night. And give credit to Aaliyah Boston and Melissa Smith, Indiana's Biggs, for how they defended her. I think New York right now is kind of trying to figure out how much they in essence force feed John Quell and get her touches early on and how many, you know, how much she gets touches in game flow and where she's kind of getting those touches from. That is definitely something that kind of came up as it related to the Minnesota games and that, you know, Sandy and the rest of the coaching staff and players talked about, right. They knew that Minnesota was going to three quarter front John Quell and they, they kind of said or they talked about after the Commissioners cup that they tried to force feed it into her a little bit too much and that kind of disrupted their rhythm. Later in the week they kind of talked about, you know, trying to find it more in flow. And there are still some times in which, you know, she has had some of those low scoring output games like we saw on Saturday. And I think that is something overall that New York is working through more than anything else though. And New York talked about it both Brondello, Sabrina Unescu post game, like they didn't come out with the same sense of urgency that they had in some past games. And you know, Indiana jumped out to I believe a six point lead after the first quarter and that really did set the tone overall. And then later in the game, like Sabrina Unescu post game she used the phrase that this was Indiana super bowl over because New York and Indiana had played three times this year. I had been at the prior three matchups. New York won convincingly in all three. Two of them were by 36 points, which was the worst deficit for the fever of a loss this year. So they look pretty, pretty bad against New York and Sabrina was saying that they just came out with a stronger sense of urgency. And I think we did see some lapses overall from New York. I mean, think about how Indiana closed the game. A 153 run from the 508 mark to the 124 mark. Flip the game from New York up a few to Indiana up a few and eventually holding on the score line. Yeah, Indiana wins by, you know, five points. New York did have a multiple chances to either go ahead or tie the game within the final 30, 45 seconds. So I do think the game is a little closer than that. I don't think New York is sounding alarm bells after this one, but a good win for Indiana nevertheless.
- [64:36]
Ben Pickman
Ben, I'm going to tell you right now, Sabrina, whether she knew it or not, those are fighting words, okay? Telling somebody a team that a game against your team is a Super Bowl Gasp. I think Indiana Fever just found their new source of motivation for the next time they go up against the Liberty. Oh really? It's a Super Bowl. Oh, okay, well, see, we'll see about that. Well, apparently things went well for their Super Bowl. I'd love to know what went right for the Indiana Fever in this game.
- [65:09]
D'Angelo
I mean, I think the thing that is most impressive about Indiana right now is, and Caitlin Clark talked about it postgame is they've withstood runs from opposing teams really well of late. They were down 15 points to the Phoenix Mercury just a couple nights before this game and overcame that and pulled off a victory. They were down 11 at one point against the New York Liberty having as I said lost by 36 points multiple times. And they pulled off the upset win like there is much more of a fight and a resilience to this Indiana team right now than there was at the beginning of the year. And I think that's a big credit to, you know, not just Clark and Boston and Kelsey Mitchell, but also the coaching staff for continuing to maintain buy in of the group as a whole and making sure that they have some self belief even when things do get difficult in these games. I guess also we should mention that Caitlin Clark did record the first triple double, first ever rookie triple double in WNB history in this game that is kind of the headliner coming out of it. And she played great. Aaliyah Boston, also 18 and 8, she had a great game herself. So Clark played great, Boston played great overall. You know they had four players scoring double figures. Melissa Smith had a double double hero herself. So it was overall a very good performance. If we want some quirky facts about this game, if we're going to call the Aces Sparks rivalry a little quirky, I saw this one in the New York Liberty game. Notes that you know, Caitlin Clark recorded a triple double. She was the second fastest player to record a triple double in WNBA history. She did it in 22 games. That is behind Sabrina Unescu who took six games. Of course that was over two seasons but she did it in six games. And of course these are two players who number one and number two in all time college triple doubles on the women's side. They are the only two players in women's college basketball history to record triple doubles in all four of their seasons. So, you know, Caitlin Clark had been knocking on the door of a first triple double. It was almost fitting that it happened against the New York Liberty over the weekend.
- [67:03]
Ben Pickman
Absolutely. And I thought when, you know, the first question, I was like, you know, what went right? I absolutely thought that was going to be the first direction that you went. 19 points, 12 rebounds, 13 assists. Unbelievable performance out of Clark. And you're absolutely right. Resilience is a great word to use for them. They've just built some grit. Like, you can see that their camaraderie, their teamwork has just developed over the course of the year. Maybe it had something to do with the fact that they barely practiced to start the season and now they've had a little bit more games and days together under their belt. But impressive win out of the NF Fever and also something that hopefully should, you know, give them some resolve to say we can go up against these big time teams and perform incredibly well. All right. All right, Ben, Sabrina, before we get out of here, any last words? Love that. All right, guys, appreciate you guys tuning in as always on behalf of Ben, on behalf of Sabrina, on behalf of the athletics. We just appreciate you all watching these games and just being a part of the conversation, encouraging what we talk about and what we're looking for because we want to help you guys understand the game and be involved more in these conversations in a healthy, healthy way. Okay, folks. All right, leave us comments on the show. If you have any topics you'd like us for us to cover. Any questions for our writers. For now, I'm Zena Keda thanking you for your ear and encouraging you to keep listening, keep watching, keep learning and keep loving the game because that's the only way we're going to keep growing it until next time.
- [68:56]
D'Angelo
As we head into the playoffs, it's safe to assume there will be a.
- [68:59]
Unknown
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D'Angelo
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Unknown
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D'Angelo
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Unknown
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Ben Pickman
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Unknown
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Ben Pickman
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Unknown
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Ben Pickman
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D'Angelo
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Ben Pickman
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D'Angelo
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Unknown
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D'Angelo
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Ben Pickman
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Unknown
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D'Angelo
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Unknown
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D'Angelo
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Unknown
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