← No Offseason: The Athletic Women's Basketball Show
No Offseason: The Athletic Women's Basketball Show
Why global talent is more important than ever to the WNBA
00:55:10
Loading summary
Transcript107 lines
- [00:00]
Capital One Bank Announcer
With no fees or minimums on checking accounts, it's no wonder the Capital One bank guy is so passionate about banking. With Capital One, if he were here, he wouldn't just tell you about no fees or minimums. He'd also talk about how most Capital One cafes are open seven days a week to assist with your banking needs. Yep, even on weekends, it's pretty much all he talks about in a good way. What's in your wallet terms apply see capitalone.com bank capital1na member FDIC
- [00:31]
Ben Green
hi, this is Ben Green from the Athletic FC. The podcast you're about to listen to is brought to you by Hotels.com as a Hotels.com member, you save up to 20% on hundreds of thousands of hotels and earn rewards on every single stay. Which means the trips you're taking now help pay for the ones you're already dreaming about. And unlike some other places, there are no blackout dates. So when you want to travel, your rewards are ready to go. So the next time you're planning a work trip or a getaway, make sure to book it at hotels.com and start earning rewards. Hotels.com, it's all in the name.
- [01:06]
Annie Costable
When you manage procurement for multiple facilities, every order matters. But when it's for a hospital system, they matter even more. Grainger gets it and knows there's no time for managing multiple suppliers and no room for shipping delays. That's why Grainger offers millions of products
- [01:21]
Sabrina Merchant
in fast, dependable delivery so you can
- [01:24]
Annie Costable
keep your facility stocked, safe and running smoothly. Call 1-800-GRAINGER click granger.com or just stop by Granger for the ones who get it done.
- [01:39]
Sabrina Merchant
When you enter the WNBA as a rookie, you can only sign a minimum salary, right? So even if you're a player like Paulinasier, who has years of professional experience and is probably more ready to start at point guard for a WNBA team than like somebody who was just drafted out of the ncaa. She is restricted in how much money she can make, right? Like the it's not even a negotiation, right? It's like the New York Liberty can just go up to Rage and be like, all right, we'll give you the minimum. Like that's it. Like you want to come over or not. And then they have to go with the reserve free agency. And that also is only required to give the player the minimum. So like, even with all of the money we're talking about that is coming into the wnba, like all of the better salary opportunities there are for international players, it's still not great Compared to what, you know, salary scale the American players are on.
- [02:27]
Annie Costable
Hello.
- [02:28]
Sabrina Merchant
Hello, everyone, and welcome to no opseason. I'm Sabrina Merchant.
- [02:31]
Annie Costable
And I'm Annie Costable.
- [02:33]
Sabrina Merchant
And today on the show, international talent has played a significant role in the WNBA for years, but their influence is felt even more strongly in these last couple of seasons. Whether it's the versatility, the shooting, the overall feel for the game, these international players are bringing a different feel to the WNBA this season. And Annie and I are going to dive into the international wave that we've seen in the league as of late. But first, first, some weird injury news. On Wednesday night, Caitlin Clark was a late scratch from the lineup with back soreness and stiffness and fever. Coach Stephanie White says it's more precautionary than anything serious. But there's still no timeline as to when Caitlin is going to return. Annie, this has been something that has been a story with Caitlin since the start of the season, actually. So let's get into this. What do we know so far about Caitlyn and her back and what happened in Wednesday's game?
- [03:26]
Annie Costable
Yeah, I mean, this is a really interesting talking point. Obviously, the Internets are losing their minds over this, but I think rightfully so, there is some confusion because going back to the start of the season when the Fever played the Dallas Wings, this was the first time there was any mention of a. Any type of back problem. And even the way that it was brought up in terms of Caitlin herself saying, oh, yeah, like, I was just going back to the locker room to get my back adjusted. It was. It was interesting to hear that in that sort of manner. And from there, what we've kind of all been told is this is just a normal circumstance. This is a normal part of keeping your body right. But then it evolves to now she's missing a game. And not only is she missing a game, but she's a late scratch to a game because of this injury. And then the team doesn't even want to call it an injury. Well, then why is she missing a game? So I think there is some maybe criticism that can be cast upon the way that this news is being delivered by the franchise. Like maybe the group needs to come together and make sure the messaging is clear, because right now it's not. And I think that's catering to even more confusion, and rightfully so. Just an emphasis on questions that need to be answered. But to just get into what happened ahead of their game against the Tempo, or, excuse me, against the Park Fire.
- [05:14]
Sabrina Merchant
Yeah.
- [05:15]
Annie Costable
Yeah. You know, what's weird here is not, you know, necessarily a player being out for what looks like is load management. Okay? This is you're playing the Portland Fire. You maybe know you don't need Caitlyn, you are trying to be strategic about
- [05:35]
Sabrina Merchant
an indictment of the Portland Fire.
- [05:38]
Annie Costable
Well, sorry, I got it, I got it. Listen, listen. I mean, sorry, guys, but you maybe say, okay, if we're going to get her some rest, this is one where we could. But again, it comes back to Stephanie White's own, like, word choice and that she openly acknowledges she didn't practice. Well, at that point, then why was she not listed on the injury report? And then furthermore, she says she woke up with back tightness. Well, then at that point, why was the injury report not updated to, say, questionable for tonight's game? So, I mean, at this point, it seems as though the league is going to look into this. Like, one could assume that the league is going to look into this based on protocol and typical happenings around injury reports and when there are investigations into teams and how they handle their injury reports. So, I mean, I would assume that the league is going to look into this, but I have not heard from the league verbatim on whether or not they are.
- [06:41]
Sabrina Merchant
Yeah, I mean, just to reiterate some of those details there, right. Like, the WNBA publishes an injury report that is on the website, like the wnba.com website that updates every 15 minutes. So there were plenty of instances over the course of the day from when Caitlin didn't practice to when, you know, I guess that would be the previous day to when she woke up with back stiffness that plenty of opportunities for the fever to update and be like, hey, okay, well, at this point, things have changed. Caitlin is now probable or questionable or doubtful or whatever designation they wanted to include. And nothing happened until I think it was like 6 o' clock for a 7pm game that she was just listed as out. So the change there is obviously confusing and I mean, I hate to mention it, but the league has a lot of money tied up with gambling partners, Right? And when you have gambling partners, they need up to date information as to who is playing, who is available to set lines, and that affects their business. And that's one of the reasons we've seen in so many other men's professional sports why injury reports have taken such precedent. Right. Because this information is kind of important for when you're setting the odds for these things. So I think that's something that the league has to consider. And then also just, I mean, this is this is not just anybody, Right. This is Caitlin Clark. And to have a situation where fans don't know until an hour before the game that she's not going to play just seems disingenuous when there was all this other lead up to it. Right. It's not like she got hit during pregame warmups, right? And like, all of a sudden it was like, oh, my God, something happened. Like, for. For the fever to outwardly be like, oh, yeah, she didn't practice. She woke up with soreness. Like, it sounds like injury management to me. Like, that they knew something was coming, but to play it so coy, like, this is just. It's weird, right? Like, it's not something that always happens in this league.
- [08:23]
Annie Costable
Yeah. And it's like you're. You're. Again, you're kind of telling on yourself just based on how you're answering these questions. And the dismissiveness of the questions, too, was a little alarming to me. Like, Steph, you're a former player in this league. You've been in this league a long time. Like, girl, be for real. Like, you know, what's up? You know how this all works. Like, what's with the surprise, the shock and horror over, like, these questions? Specifically when James Boyd, our colleague, followed up post game and was like, you know, do you expect to be fined if she was out of practice the day prior? She woke up with back stiffness this morning. Why was the injury report not updated to list her as questionable? And Steph just blatantly was like, we expected her to play. Okay, that if. If that's true, I guess that is what you're going to say to the league and we'll see what the league says if they do, in fact investigate this or look into this. So I guess what I'll say is, you know, I've talked to sources around the league at this point who, to your point about, you know, not necessarily the gambling aspect, but basically what was communicated to me was like, the league takes this stuff seriously. So again, the senses from sources around the league, like, this is going to be looked into whether or not they get fined. I think that obviously remains to be seen. Yeah.
- [09:52]
Sabrina Merchant
And then there's just the question of, like, what do we actually make of this situation as it relates to Caitlin? Right. Because when she brought up the back injury or when she said, like, my back just needed to get aligned or adjusted during opening night, it was the first time I'd ever heard her reference any issue with her back and even in subsequent media practice availabilities when she's talked about or when she's been asked about her back, she just says, like, you know, I'm getting used to my body after the injury. Like, there's all these mental hurdles to get over. I'm, like, very in tune with all of it and would never directly acknowledge anything was happening with her back. So for this to come up again, kind of just like raises a flag about, is this something we should be concerned about long term with Caitlin? Like, obviously, Stephanie White said they're not, but, you know, as you mentioned, like, there were a lot of weird things and what. The Indiana Fever said yes on Wednesday's availability. But, yeah, I mean, I think it's just a little concerning that, like, this has come up again so soon. Or maybe it's just like you mentioned, it's a load management thing and they're trying to couch it in something. But, like, I don't think they would outright lie about Caitlin waking up with a stiff back. Right.
- [10:53]
Annie Costable
No, I agree with you. And I think the other thing about couching it and just the questions around that. Right. Is like, the Fever has struggled with injury. This franchise is. Does have a microscope on it, not only because of Caitlin, but because of other players injuries. And at what point is the. Is there kind of a deeper look into whether or not there's a problem here in terms of, you know, training staff? I mean, again, I'm not reporting anything to that extent, but that's where I think there is some lack of trust, especially from the fan base, because this franchise hasn't been forthcoming in regards to the reality of injuries. Like, even again, going back to Caitlin last year, that window of time in which the franchise reported they were shutting her down for the season from the game in which she suffered that last, you know, injury, there was a lot of questions about at what point did they know she was going to be out for this, the remainder of the season, and did they wait to tell everybody about that? Um, so I think the Fever just need to do a better job of being as transparent as they can about what's going on with injuries. Again, like, load management is a normal part of. Of sports, but you can't, like, not
- [12:31]
Sabrina Merchant
really in the W, though.
- [12:33]
Annie Costable
Right? That's fair. But, like, even furthermore, like, you can't be misleading about that. Like, this is prime time, baby. We're in. This is a real sp. Okay, like, you cannot be lying about what's going on with players injuries. You're gonna not only get found out, but it's like there's too much attention on you to try and be misleading about players, injuries.
- [12:59]
Sabrina Merchant
Yeah. And at the risk of, like, making every comparison to the NBA because they are on the same national media deal, I think it's kind of relevant on the NBA side. You can't load. Manage national TV games. Like, teams get fined for doing that. And this was a national TV game on USA Network for the Fever and the Fire. So there's just a lot of, I don't know, weirdness happening there. And it's been a weird start to the season for the Indiana Fever. And I think the only thing I hope out of all this is that whatever is going on with Caitlin's back is not lingering. I think that's what everyone's hoping for. Right. You just want to see players on the court. But the way it's been presented is all incredibly strange.
- [13:36]
Annie Costable
I also have to say, sorry, one more thing, because I know we have to move on, but Steph's continued efforts to emphasize, like, oh, I don't handle those things. That's the training staff. Talk to them. When she knows we don't get, like, they're not available to the media. I'm sure you could put in requests, but they don't have to be made available to the media. It's like, that's such a. Again, because of her history in this league. I'm like, girl, are you serious? Like, why do you keep telling us to talk to the training staff when, you know, we don't get access to the training staff? So I just. That's another thing I had to say, because it's just so funny when it comes from someone like Steph who just has so much history in this league and is like, oh, yeah, just talk to the training staff. It's like, when. Yeah, when.
- [14:24]
Sabrina Merchant
Yeah, they're not. They're not occupied at all before the start of a game, you know, getting players ready or anything like that.
- [14:29]
Annie Costable
Right, right. I'm like, when are they going to be made available to the media?
- [14:34]
Sabrina Merchant
Yeah, it's just one of those things. We talk about the continued growth at the wnba and these are the consequences of that. Right. Like, more scrutiny into things like this and more responsibility for players and coaches to be accountable for what exactly is happening within their franchise. So we'll see how the Fever gets disciplined, maybe. I don't know. Who knows? But I wouldn't be surprised if we saw something in that vein. And again, we're recording this Thursday morning Pacific time, Thursday afternoon, Eastern time. So it's possible something has dropped before you listen to this podcast on Friday. Anyway, moving on from our regular Caitlyn update, let's get into the international player discussion on the other side of this break.
- [15:14]
Capital One Bank Announcer
What if a marginal gain unlocked greater performance? What if an insight in data could change everything? At Aramco, our focus on detail helps us deliver reliable energy to millions across the world. Because margins aren't marginal, they're where we can truly push the limits of what's possible. Aramco, an integrated energy and chemicals company. Learn more@aramco.com with no fees or minimums on checking accounts, it's no wonder the Capital One bank guy is so passionate about banking. With Capital One, if he were here, he wouldn't just tell you about no fees or minimums. He'd also talk about how most Capital One cafes are open seven days a week to assist with your banking needs. Yep, even on weekends it's pretty much all he talks about in a good way. What's in your wallet? Terms apply. See capitalone.com bank capital1na member FDIC
- [16:15]
Ben Green
hi, this is Ben Green from the Athletic FC. The podcast you're about to listen to is brought to you by Hotels.com as a Hotels.com member, you save up to 20% on hundreds of thousands of hotels and earn rewards on every single stay. Which means the trips you're taking now help pay for the ones you're already dreaming about. And unlike some other places, there are no blackout dates. So when you want to travel, your rewards are ready to go. So the next time you're planning a work trip or a getaway, make sure to book it at hotels.com and start earning rewards. Hotels.com, it's all in the name.
- [16:55]
Sabrina Merchant
All right, Amy, before we get into this full on topic here, I wanted to set the table for why we're talking about so many international players. And I think the place to start here is really expansion, because there are so many more opportunities for WMA players to sign in this league. There are just so many roster spots available, and we've seen international players fill in a lot of those spots. And I wanted to get into just how the pathway is different for international players to join the WNBA versus college players. Can you just sort of set the scene for us there?
- [17:27]
Annie Costable
Yeah, so international players don't have to play in college to be drafted to the WNBA. The year that they turn 20 is the year they become eligible to be drafted. So if you're 19 on April 13 or whatever date the draft is, but you turn 20 December 25, that draft is the one that you could be selected in. And if you're not drafted in that draft, the year that you turn 20 years old, you then become an unrestricted free agent and can sign with a team at, like, at any point. Not at any point, but like, again, you're, you're an opportunity kind of at any point.
- [18:11]
Sabrina Merchant
Honestly.
- [18:11]
Annie Costable
Yeah, yeah, honestly. Yeah, you could be picked up at any point. But so for certain players, like, being drafted is, you know, a huge honor. It's. It's something that they want an experience they want to go through, but it doesn't necessarily mean they're going to come over to the WNBA right away. Like, let's use you and I as hypothetical players in the W, because I
- [18:37]
Sabrina Merchant
love to pretend so close to age 20.
- [18:40]
Annie Costable
Yeah, I love to pretend I'm young and I love to pretend like I could play in the wnb. No, I'm joking. But if I get drafted to, you know, the New York Liberty, that, that doesn't mean that I am going to 20, 26, come over and play for them. That that same season that I get drafted, you could, you know, if you get drafted and that's the decision that again, the team you want to make, like, some players prioritize going or continuing playing professionally overseas to get their development there and then coming over. It's also can come down to, like, is there room for us on the roster? Like, is there is now the best time for both parties? And so there's a lot of different reasons why, you know, a player may or may not get drafted and may or may not come over right away.
- [19:36]
Sabrina Merchant
Right. So to be clear, like, if they get drafted, then that team holds their rights for as long as the team chooses to. Essentially, like, there's a limit on how many non rostered players that a team can hold the rights to. I think it cycles over to like three at the start of each league year. But, you know, a team can continue to hold your rights if they drafted you for as long as they choose to. And so that could be a reason, like you said, like, let's say, you know, you're talking about the Liberty. They already have a pretty full roster. You're looking at it thinking, like, well, there's not really a chance for me to make the team this year. If I go to training camp and I get cut, it's bad for like, both parties because now the Liberty don't hold my rights anymore and I am once again a free agent and have to find a place to play, which could be A good thing could be a bad thing because, like, you're not, you know, guaranteed rights anywhere. But I do think it's interesting that, like, we talk about college players and, like, this big, like, everything in their profession, their basketball career kind of builds up to the draft, right? Like, they go to college to prepare themselves. Like, they're meeting with scouts and, like, everybody's looking at their practices. And the NCAA tournament naturally leads into the draft and it's like this big thing. And with international players, like, sometimes, like, you don't even have to make yourself eligible, right? Like, you're just automatically on the list, right? So, like, even if you're not thinking about wnba, you could just sort of get a call at, like, you know, the morning, the next day after the draft and be like, hey, you know, the Minnesota Links drafted you in the third round. Like, this is a thing, even if you have no desire at the moment to play in the wnba.
- [21:03]
Annie Costable
Right. And I think that's another reason why there's sometimes, like, shock about a player choosing not to come over. And it's like, well, this is something that, to your point, if they're not really thinking about, or there hasn't really been much dialogue between them and the team that just drafted them, because that can happen too. Not that it's super common. And I would say most teams are shifting away from that. I don't know that it happens at all anymore where players are getting drafted without having some idea that a team is interested in them or that the WNBA is a possibility. But I think there were times in the past where, yeah, players wouldn't necessarily know that a team was going to draft them. And then from there there would be discussions about time to come over or, you know, what's the best path forward to coming to the wnba, et cetera. And there's so many things about the W that has shifted in the last few years that makes coming over a lot more intriguing for players.
- [22:14]
Sabrina Merchant
Totally. Yeah. And I think that's why you see a lot of international players who, even if they weren't drafted, are making the decision to come to the WNBA now. And like, I think about, you know, last season with like, Monika Koa Makani and Janelle Salon were both technically eligible for the 2021 draft, which in hindsight seems very silly that neither of them were drafted in what is probably the worst draft in modern WNBA history. But they, they both decided, like, this is a good time in, you know, to come over, like, early 20s opportunities to play in Golden State and Phoenix they both had defined roles on both of those teams and coaches that clearly knew how to use them and wanted them to be a big part of the structure of the team. And it made sense for them to come over and, you know, play a role. Like whether that was an expansion team with Chanel Salon or Monika Komakani, like the starting point guard on the team that makes it to the WNBA finals. Right. So once it just. Usually the way we see it on the college side is, like, if you don't get drafted, that's pretty bad harbinger for, like, your professional prospects if you're an NCAA player. But on the international side, not getting drafted is. It's not a big deal. There's still lots of opportunities for you to get noticed. And I think part of that is because of the age that you were talking about. Right. Like, when college players get drafted, they're usually turning 22 that year and potentially even older, you know, with all of medical red shirts and, you know, the exceptions that happen in college. And if you're not drafted when you're 19 or 20, there's still so much time for you to continue to develop and prove that you're a professional player. And that's what we're seeing a lot in this current era of the wnba, where it's not so much the college players who have filled in these extra, you know, 36 roster spots that were created by expansion in the last few years. It's a lot of international players who maybe as American sports fans, we're less familiar with. But, you know, I think expansion is one of the reasons why we've seen a lot of international players make the move to the wnba. What else do you think has contributed to. I mean, it's pretty obviously the money, but, like, I think we should get into that. Right? Like, the fact that, yeah, you know, like, the money is a huge part of this. Right. Like, for so long, you know, WNBA players had to play overseas and then come back to the W. And, like, it's kind of like the opposite for international players. Right. Like, why would they want to play overseas and then also play in the WNBA when the money was not there, you know?
- [24:30]
Annie Costable
Yeah, it's such an interesting conversation because when you talk to international players, I have yet to hear from any single international player that hasn't spoken about the WNBA as, like, the preeminent women's basketball league, like, the league that you. They. They aspire to play in. That being said, there is also this layer to it, to your point of is it worth the commitment? Is the bang worth the buck, Right? Or whatever that saying is. And it's funny because Brianna Stewart yesterday spoke about this in reference to her wife, Marta, who's played internationally her entire career was on Spain's national team. An Olympian, like this is, again, like a star player. But for her, Stewie said, it was always the question of, is coming to the WNBA worth the sacrifice in the sense of not only personal sacrifice of, you know, playing year round, but also the sacrifice that ends up happening with your international clubs, with your national team, you know, because you're taking time away from those commitments to play in this summer league. And so now that the money has shifted, we are seeing players that view it as a worthwhile commitment, a worthwhile jump to make. And understandably so. I mean, this. This CBA changed everything. The salary jump is historic for a reason. Like that's going to continue to impact players interest.
- [26:16]
Sabrina Merchant
I think that point about the WNBA being the very best league and everybody wanting to test themselves in the WNBA is kind of more relevant now than it ever has been. Because previously you had the Brianna Stewarts and, you know, Maya Moore's and Tina Charles of the world playing overseas during the WNBA offseason. So even if you were somebody who didn't play in the wnba, you could test yourself against, you know, Diana and Sue and Candace and all of these players in the Russian League, in Euroleague, in China. Now, you're not really getting the opportunity to play against those players because they're all sticking around in the WNBA are unrivaled, right? So if you want to test yourself, the only way to do that is in the wnba. And the money obviously makes it more attractive, right? Like, it's one thing if you're an American player and you're playing in the WNBA to sort of support your own domestically, even though you're only getting paid $100,000 or whatever it was during the 2010s, like, Diana Tarazi has talked about this all the time, that the service, basically, that they were performing for the wnba, you know, European, Australian players, like Asian players, have no obligation to think that way, right? So I think the money is such a huge part of it. And then I like what you said about just wanting to play in the premier league of women's basketball. The only opportunity, again, you have, unless it's a couple weeks in the Olympics or a couple weeks at the world championships, this is how you test yourself. This is how you grow. And I think it's an unintended consequence of the WNBA Prioritizing itself, so to speak, that other players have seen the league as a more attractive destination that way 100%.
- [27:44]
Annie Costable
And the money aspect of that also impacts the contracts that players are signing overseas. And to your point, we've seen these superstar players, you know, slowly start to trickle away from overseas play. Like most of them are staying stateside. But there's still a number of WNBA caliber players who are signing contracts overseas. But the shift again that's happening is what I've been told by sources who are involved in these types of negotiations and these contracts overseas is like we're going to see players signing more one year deal. Like a player signing a multi year deal with an overseas club is, is not going to be common anymore because of the money that exists in the wnba. And players are going to want that freedom to make decisions after WNBA seasons conclude in a way that, that maybe they decide like I only want to focus on my play in the wnba. I don't want to have to go back overseas to continue, you know, developing whatever. And because of again the money that's offered here, they have that freedom to do so. And so I think an important kind of talking point in all of this is that the WNBA and FIBA have since the WNBA's existence operated. It's operated under FIBA's Letter of Clearance rule, which also exists in men's professional basketball as well. It's this rule, this letter that requires a team, or excuse me, a player who's playing in multiple leagues to get a letter of clearance from team A that says this player fulfilled all of their duties with us. They are now free to go play with team B. And so in the W, this is like a really, like a non issue there. There have been moments where it's come up in the history of the WNBA where yes, there's been issues maintaining or getting your letter of clearance and agents get involved, et cetera, et cetera. But a great recent example there's been two was Valerie Ann Aiayi, who goes by Velou. I may have just butchered her name and I apologize, but she was signed by the Phoenix Mercury forward with the Phoenix Mercury and she was listed as out for the Mercury's first two games because of FIBA issues. And what was happening behind the scenes was Velou was signed to a multi year contract with her overseas club. And what she, she had an opt out. She pursues that opt out. There's a, you know, a fee she has to pay that's associated with the opt out. Okay, she agrees to pay that. But her team overseas was trying to get her to stay for that second year of her contract. And so they held up her letter of clearance, which again, then, you know, agents get involved and they ultimately attain that letter of clearance which allows her to play in the wnba. Now, again, all of that is interesting here because I think that letter of clearance rule has allowed FEBA and the WNBA to maintain this healthy ecosystem. But my question moving forward, or my curiosity moving forward, is how long that will be maintained. At what point is the league, the wnba, going to enter a space where they seek exclusivity? Because again, as we look at the NBA, those players have exclusivity. They're not allowed to play in other leagues unless it's with their right, unless it's with their national team. But the G league or, excuse me, the summer league players who are intern, are playing internationally, come to summer league to compete in summer league, and they have to get that letter of clearance. The second they sign with a team or with a G league team, they operate under the exclusivity rule. And so as the W's footprint expands, I think that's the question that that gets on the table in the sense of, you know, when does exclusivity become the talking point and become the rule that is being debated, Right?
- [32:10]
Sabrina Merchant
So as you mentioned, the W does not have exclusivity at the moment. Right. Like, everybody goes back and forth between European leagues, you know, Australia, Asia, wherever, and the wnba. But, you know, one step they took towards exclusivity, I would say during the previous collective bargaining agreement, the one that was signed in 2020, was prioritization. And that's the idea that players have to report by a certain date, whether that's the start of training camp or the start of the season, in order to be allowed to play in the W that year. Right. Like, if you are late, you are not eligible to play in the WNBA that season. And it only applies for players who are beyond two years of service. So if you're entering your third year in the league, like, you can come over as late as you want. I think the, the idea behind that rule was that they wanted to make sure that the rookies who were making the lowest salaries had an opportunity to supplement their incomes as much as possible by going overseas before restricting that option later in their careers. So we've seen the wnba, you know, try to get players to come back sooner, right? Because the product of the league is just better when you have all of your players in training camp, like they've been together they know what the system is going to be once the season starts. You get all of your players on opening day. You get the massive national TV game with everyone available. And it makes a lot of sense that the WNBA would want its biggest stars there to start the season. I think about the first year I was covering the Sparks in 2019, and they're doing media day, and Chelsea Gray is just not there because she's playing with her overseas team, and Candace Parker is just not there. And it's just accepted they're not going to play for the first couple of games of the season because they have other obligations to fulfill. And in hindsight, it feels very silly that the WNBA was just okay with this, that your best players are not around. And so prioritization makes a lot of sense, right? Like, you want everyone to be available. Like, I remember one time the Sparks were playing the links, and Kayla McBride comes over straight from Turkey to LA, like, has not stopped in Minnesota. The Links have already played four games to start the season. And she just shows up in la, like, from. I think it was Fenner at this time, and suits up that day, you know, for the Links against the Sparks. And like, that's. That's not good for anybody. You know, that's not good for the players. It's not good for the teams. It's not good for the advertising of the league. Right. So prioritization is, you know, the way that the W is trying to get WMA players to be in market on time to be present for the start of the season. They haven't gone the extent of exclusivity. I do wonder how that would relate as it, you know, pertains to, like, unrivaled or Athletes Unlimited or, you know, non FIBA leagues, so to speak, you know, ones that are not overseas. But yeah, I, we didn't see any conversations about prioritization, like, expanding. I think really during this current collective bargaining agreement, the rules are pretty much the same as we know for the 2026 agreement as they were in the 2020 agreement.
- [34:47]
Annie Costable
There is a slight change just in terms of the prioritization, like the date. So this year, the prioritization date was still either by the start of training camp or May 1, whichever is later. And so we saw this year some players weren't in market by the start of training camp, but they got to market by May 1st. Yeah, by May 1st. And again, those are players who have three years or more of service under their belt. Now that date, starting with the 2027 season is going to be either April 15th or the start of training camp, whichever date falls later. So that was the only notable change to prioritization.
- [35:30]
Sabrina Merchant
Right. And we'll, you know, you're still seeing these players who are earlier in their WME careers. Like you know, Alafam, who is reporting to the Seattle Storm this week and having her introductory press conference for the Storm on Friday today, you know, the day that the show is dropp. You see players like Leonie Fibic who was playing in Spain and still has not suited up for the Liberty or you know, her teammate Raquel Carrera. We mentioned Monica Kohlimakani earlier. Like all of these players who played long seasons in France and Spain and got to the playoffs and the championships and like had to fulfill those obligations first. That's still happening for some players, but it's a lot less and it's with all the delicateness possible. It's not the same caliber of names that used to be missing the start of the season as currently are.
- [36:16]
Annie Costable
Yeah, I mean it's so interesting and to that point that you made about, you know, the names that would be missing from the start of training camp or missing to start the season, I believe we're going to be thinking the same way we are now about how crazy that is of like, oh, the idea that Chelsea Gray, that Candace Parker, that whoever was showing up, you know, late to the season, I think we're going to have that thought years from now when exclusivity is at play and we're going to be talking about, you know, players that, oh my God, I can't believe they were, they were doubling up and they were playing all year round to this degree, I truly think that's going to be the thought process because the same way it impacts the product now of like, oh, it's important to have these players in market with team not only health wise and just in terms of understanding, you know, like getting time with your team to train before you are jumping on the court with them. I think when, when the W gets to a point where all of its players are prioritizing the league in a year round basis, the product is going to look completely different because that's a different level of, of commitment required. And so yeah, I think it's, it's really such an interesting, you know, topic and the way that it's shifted in the last few years is like insane to me. And the other thing too about this, when you talk about some of these young players who are just showing up to their teams or some of these New faces with teams is they're rookies, but they're not really rookies. Like, I'm thinking of, you know, Pauline Assier with the Liberty. She's characterized as a rookie, but she's been playing professionally for years. And so it's really remarkable when you consider how some of these teams are strategically building using international talent.
- [38:18]
Sabrina Merchant
Yeah, I mean, it's like a very useful team building tool because when you enter the WNBA as a rookie, you can only sign a minimum salary. Right. So even if you're a player like Paulinastier, who has years of professional experience and is probably more ready to start at point guard for a WNBA team than like somebody who was just drafted out of the ncaa, she is restricted in how much money she can make. Right. Like the. It's not even a negotiation. Right. It's like the New York Liberty can just go up to her agent, be like, all right, we'll give you the minimum. Like, that's it, like you want to come over or not. And then they have to go with the reserve free agency. And that also is only required to give the player the minimum. So, like, even with all of the money we're talking about that is coming into the wnba, like all of the better salary opportunities there are for international players, it's still not great compared to what, you know, salary scale that the American players are on. Because if you're a first round draft pick, you know, you're making more money for those first four years, significantly so than what an undrafted player is making, which is what these, you know, international rookies generally are on that salary scale.
- [39:17]
Annie Costable
Which also goes back to the interesting point we made earlier about international players wanting to be drafted. There's now a correlation between, again, to your point, the salary you're making versus if you go undrafted and are just picked up as an unrestricted free agent.
- [39:34]
Sabrina Merchant
Yeah. It does, you know, sort of like make it important that we try to identify that these are WNBA rookies as often as possible as opposed to just rookies, because they're clearly not professional rookies. Like, think about, like Yovana Nogic with the Phoenix Mercury. Like, I think she's 28 years old, right? Like, not, not a rookie in professional basketball by any means.
- [39:52]
Annie Costable
Yeah.
- [39:53]
Sabrina Merchant
But we'll, we'll do our best to say WNBA rookie as often as possible because I do think it's important to clarify that, like, this league is different, right? Like, this is a better league than they've played in before. The fact that they haven't been in the WNB before. Is relevant to how they're going to. So just making sure we make those distinctions as often as possible.
- [40:11]
Annie Costable
Agreed. Good catch by you.
- [40:13]
Sabrina Merchant
Yeah. Just one other thing before we get into like, some of the specific international players that have caught our eye this year. We kind of talked about this during the NCAA season, but we're seeing this like, weird trend now of international players who get drafted, who decide to go to college first before playing in the wnba. And I'm wondering, like, what you think of that specific decision making process.
- [40:34]
Annie Costable
I mean, I think NIL has changed that. Right. There are players who now it's not a matter of, oh, let me put off playing in the WNBA so I could develop and earn overseas. It's now a matter of, well, let me put off playing in the WNBA so I could develop and earn playing in college. And so I think that's, you know, an interesting kind of wrinkle in things is that there are players who can make a considerable amount of money playing, quote, unquote, developing. Because, I mean, I believe, and I don't think this is a hot take by any means, but I think the development that's happening overseas by far and away is exceeding the development that's happening at the college level. And I truly am not meaning that as shade, but like overseas, you're playing against other pros, you're playing against grown women, you're. You're naturally that's going to require a different level of development. So what, you know, in my opinion is now happening is, well, the earning here is different. The earning at the collegiate level is different in terms of what you can make in nil. Yeah.
- [41:49]
Sabrina Merchant
And I think, you know, previously I would probably believe that it was easier to get scouted by a WNBA team if you were playing college versus if you were overseas. Just like the size of the front offices and the resource that they were devoting to overseas scouting was not what it is now. Right. So it would just be much easier to get onto the radar of the WNBA if you were playing in the NCAA system. I'm no longer sure that that's the case. Right. Just with all of the, you know, efforts that we've seen from WNBA teams to scout talent around the world. I also don't necessarily like, blame these players for going from pro to college, so to speak, because as we mentioned earlier, it's not like they put their name in the draft. Right. Like they, by virtue of turning 20 that year, are eligible to be drafted. Right. So they didn't decide to play professional basketball. And then, you know, Do a U turn, be like, never mind, I'd rather go play it. You know, I think Aja Sifka, first round pick for the Chicago sky, is playing at Kentucky this year. And like Nastya Clayson, who was a third round pick for the Washington Mystics, was at Kansas State last year and she's there again this season. So it's not like they specifically said like, oh, I want to play in the WNBA and now maybe I'm not ready. Like, they literally had no choice about being drafted. Right. Like, it's just a thing that happened.
- [42:57]
Annie Costable
The, the other thing about that too is like a lot of people are like, oh, Aja didn't want to play for the Chicago sky, or she's, this is her way of trying to get out of playing for the Chicago Sky. That's not how it works. The sky still maintain her rights, so whenever she's a pro, they. She's like, she's going to be a pro with the Chicago sky unless they trade her rights. Which is why this is also an interesting thing for the Chicago sky. Because if Aja developed like this is going to raise or potentially elevate her trade stock if the Chicago sky want to pursue that route with her, like, this is essentially, I don't want to say it's a win win because, you know, maybe you want her in your system. You want to have that resource of a player, you know, available on your roster. But in terms of communication with the sky, if this was an agreed to understood thing, she's gonna go to college, it doesn't hurt either party because she's developing there versus developing overseas. And now to your point about more eyes being potentially on her because she's at, she's here in the States, like this could impact her trade value, which again, also just benefits the sky and also could benefit her. She ends up, you know, she's still going to play in the WNBA is what I'm trying to say.
- [44:19]
Sabrina Merchant
Yeah, there's, there's just like levels to all of this. Right? Like, obviously, you know, the Spanish league is very well thought of and like the French league is very well thought of, but there are other leagues in Europe where maybe it is better to come to the NCAA if that's where you're playing and the type of development and competition that you would face there might be better than some of those leagues. So just, I think just lots of decisions for everyone to make, lots of opportunities, lots of options and all compensated options at this point, which I think is really the key that you don't have to make sacrifices between money and what's good for your basketball career. Yeah, Just to put a button here, we've mentioned some of the names of international players who have debuted in the WNBA this year, other than Pauline Sier, because I think we already mentioned her. Who else has really stuck out to you this season so far? Amy?
- [45:04]
Annie Costable
I mean, again, I feel like we mentioned both of them, but. So I won't mention Pauline, but now I got to mention Jovana Nogic. And I think it's hard to really think of any. It's not hard to think of anyone else, but I'm just saying they, by far and away, I think stand among the best international talent early in the season because of what they've immediately come in and done. And to Yovana, it's like she's proven herself right away as an incredible two way player. Her three point shooting percentage is above 50%. Um, she's got the nod from Alyssa Thomas in terms of her defensive abilities, which is big deal, right? Is quite the acknowledgment. And you know, to that point, her teammates, her WNBA teammates, Alyssa Thomas included, have said, we played against Yovana overseas, we knew what kind of player she was. And so now she's just coming here and she's doing it. And so. So yeah, I just think she, by far and away is at the top of the list for me. Yeah.
- [46:14]
Sabrina Merchant
And I think Phoenix is really a team that has done well to scout internationally. I think part of it was last season. They just didn't have a lot of options beyond their big three.
- [46:24]
Annie Costable
Right.
- [46:25]
Sabrina Merchant
Like you had to fill out the roster somehow and contractually it made sense to pick players who they could get on lower value deals and, you know, sort of hit a part of the scouting pool that a lot of other teams weren't searching for. So, you know, we saw that last year with Winnie, Kako Makani, they bring in like Kit Laksa, Katherine West Belt, Lexi Held, who incidentally had a very nice game for the Tempo against Phoenix earlier this week. But yeah, I think yo yo is definitely atop that list. And it kind of feels silly to say that like somebody who played in the 2024 Olympics, like for Serbia, wasn't unknown to so much of the basketball community. But like, there's a lot of basketball happening. It's hard to keep track of everyone. But yeah, that's a good one. I think you mentioned Iae on Phoenix, Noemi Berchant, another French player who I think has played pretty well to start the season. The One player I wanted to mention, and forgive me because again, her name is difficult for me to get through is Laura Yusuke from the Tempo. Just really, really fun offensive player. I think the defensive awareness is. We're working on that. Sandy Rondello is working on that. But she just does a lot of fun things with the ball in her hand and really just like willing to shoot all the time and really creative with the way she sees the game. So I've had a lot of fun watching her on Toronto and I like that they've leaned in more international. Like they have a lot of international players on their roster and it makes sense because they're not just Canada's team, but like the first international expansion for the wnba. So I like that those identities match
- [47:51]
Annie Costable
up with one another 100%. Another player I'll add, in terms of just being excited about watching them and how they impact the roster is just a jos. You guys, this is really.
- [48:05]
Sabrina Merchant
The Lithuanians are hard. The Lithuanians are hard. We don't understand how to and speak their names well.
- [48:11]
Annie Costable
We also, like, haven't met them yet. Like, wonder I always ask the players when I first meet them immediately. Like, how do you correctly say your name? So Juice Day for the Golden State Valkyries. I am really excited to see how she comes in and impacts that team because that's another international player that has, you know, I think been talked about as having high value, being a high impact player and has a career overseas that, you know, attests to those things. But we just haven't seen her yet in the wnba.
- [48:46]
Sabrina Merchant
Totally. I also kind of enjoyed Frieda Buhner for the Portland Fire, who kind of had like a weird international situation because she came to college briefly. So she was no longer eligible for the getting drafted the year you turn 20. And even though she left the NCAA, she had to wait until she turned 20, 22. She had to wait until she turned 22 years old to actually get drafted. But yeah, just like a very fun player to watch for Portland again. Another player who like, shoots very confidently and like, is good moving laterally. I mentioned her in the newsletter this week actually, because for whatever reason, I think because she's a developmental player, like the Fire didn't have her jersey ready to go on opening night, so she had to wear a random number 48 jersey that didn't have her name on it and just feels like a very hilarious start to a career that I think is actually gonna be pretty good for Portland going forward.
- [49:35]
Annie Costable
Wait, another we have to mention is Han Shu I mean, with New York, obviously she's not like a new international player, but I think the versatility that she adds to an already versatile team, like defending that height, length is an impossible feat. And I think the way that she offers Chris DiMarco, you know, interesting lineups that teams are going to have a difficult time game planning for, is, you know, is going to benefit the Liberty.
- [50:06]
Sabrina Merchant
Yeah, I'm just going to go one more. Also from Portland, Nadia Potch, who was a first round pick from Atlanta a couple years ago. Kind of surprised she was available in the expansion draft, honestly. But she can just defend the crap out of the ball. Like, they had her on Stewie, they had her on Skylar Diggins. Like, they've had her just doing everything defensively for them. And offensively, it's a. It's a weird situation with her right now. Like, there's. There's some learning to be done. It's kind of the opposite of you sky day with Toronto, but I've had a lot of fun just watching her get into opposing offensive players and just plays super, super hard. She kind of feels like the physical manifestation for what Alex Sarama is trying to build there with Portland. So, yeah, I know. Usually we think of, like, I'm glad we're hitting, like, all of the overseas corners. Like, we got China, we got Australia, we got some Europeans. Everybody's. Everybody's getting here.
- [50:55]
Annie Costable
I also feel like all of the names we've listed are an indication of what franchises are doing the best at scouting international talent. I mean, Phoenix and New York in the last few years, I think have done the best job. One player specifically that I think is a great example of how Jonathan Kolb has leaned into international talent is Leonie Fibich. I mean, the way that she bounced around the league in terms of her rights before she landed in New York, and it's like the way it wasn't an accident by any means. Like, again, this is a testament to Jonathan Kolb and the strings that he's pulling. But the fact that she was included in that trade for Marina Mabry back in, I think, what, 20, 23?
- [51:42]
Sabrina Merchant
Yeah, it's like.
- [51:43]
Annie Costable
And she lands in New York, honestly, great for her because I think even as far as her development goes and her impact in New York, the way they use her is Chef's kiss. But I. I think it's insane that. That anybody let Cole, like, let Leonie end up in New York. Like, I actually originally drafted by the
- [52:08]
Sabrina Merchant
Sparks, for what it's worth.
- [52:10]
Annie Costable
Right, right.
- [52:10]
Sabrina Merchant
Just another reason to you know, be a little disappointed in some of the sparks machinations over recent seasons, but yeah, Leonie, I think, I think you're right that New York and Phoenix have sort of been the gold standard for recent years. But now you're seeing like every expansion team. It's enormous part of their project to make sure that they're, you know, tracking international players as much as they are NCAA players. Because Golden State, Toronto and Portland I think are all like in that next tier of their scouting.
- [52:38]
Annie Costable
I think that's going to be the next marker of what franchises are investing properly or are, you know, the winning franchises or the well funded franchise or not well funded but like well supported franchises.
- [52:51]
Sabrina Merchant
They should all be well funded at this point.
- [52:52]
Annie Costable
Yeah, yeah, but which franchises are investing in international scouting? That to me is going to be the tell of which franchises are being run properly.
- [53:04]
Sabrina Merchant
Totally. Because I look at the teams that feel like a couple players short right now and it's because they're mostly just American players. Like they haven't really looked beyond.
- [53:13]
Annie Costable
Yeah, we sound like we hate like American players.
- [53:18]
Sabrina Merchant
I don't like. The thing is, we should mention this. All of the players that we've talked about are not players that are in like all WNBA conversations yet. They're not in MVP conversations yet.
- [53:26]
Annie Costable
Right.
- [53:27]
Sabrina Merchant
The biggest stars in the WNBA are still the ones that are coming out of the NCAA system that, you know, are becoming marketable during their college years. You know, the Pagebackers, Caitlin Clarks, Asia Wilson, Brianna Stewart, like they are the ones who are still dominating the wnba. I just think that in terms of building a fully complete roster, you know, competing for titles, it helps to have all of that, you know, scouting which apparently Vegas does not care for. So maybe that's not the case, but.
- [53:54]
Annie Costable
Yeah, right. Okay, wait, I just had a thought. I feel like we should predict now what international player is going to be the, you know, next league. Maybe not face of the league, but again, to your point about who the stars of the WNBA are, they are homegrown talent. Which international player do you think has the potential to be, you know, a league face in the years to come?
- [54:24]
Sabrina Merchant
I think it's gotta be Don Malonga. I feel like it's an easy answer, but unfortunately that's what I'm gonna go with.
- [54:32]
Annie Costable
Yeah, I mean, I think again, just maybe to say something different than you, even though I agree with you, it's gotta be doma. I think Awafam is another player that's intriguing to me in terms of can she command that, you know, that type of recognition in the league, but I. I wouldn't.
- [54:56]
Sabrina Merchant
Lots of reasons to watch Seattle. That's really what we're saying here. Lots of reasons to watch Seattle.
- [55:01]
Annie Costable
Right? Right.
- [55:02]
Sabrina Merchant
Maybe we should have included them on the people who have done a good job with international scouting or, you know, those players just sort of fell into their laps because they had really good trades made during the last two drafts. I don't want to mention again that the Sparks traded both those picks to this storm, but here we are anyway.
- [55:18]
Annie Costable
Sabrina's reeling, dude. Could you guys hear it in her voice?
- [55:23]
Sabrina Merchant
I think that's a good way to put button on our international conversation here. Stick around because we still have to set our screens for the weekend.
- [55:36]
Annie Costable
Your production needs flexibility. Software. Define it with automation. Built to adapt and the best of
- [55:43]
Sabrina Merchant
it to boost your ot.
- [55:46]
Annie Costable
Transform the FDA every day with Siemens
- [55:50]
Capital One Bank Announcer
with no fees or minimums on checking accounts, it's no wonder the Capital One bank guy is so passionate about banking with Capital One. If he were here, he wouldn't just tell you about no fees or minimums. He'd also talk about how most Capital One cafes are open seven days a week to assist with your banking needs. Yep, even on weekends, it's pretty much all he talks about in a good way. What's in your wallet? Terms apply. See capitalone.com bank capital1na member FDIC
- [56:20]
Ben Green
hi, this is Ben Green from the Athletic FC. The podcast you're about to listen to is brought to you by Hotels.com as a Hotels.com member, you save up to 20% on hundreds of thousands of hotels and earn rewards on every single stay. Which means the trips you're taking now help pay for the ones you're already dreaming about. And unlike some other other places, there are no blackout dates. So when you want to travel, your rewards are ready to go. So the next time you're planning a work trip or a getaway, make sure to book it@hotels.com and start earning rewards. Hotels.com it's all in the name.
- [57:00]
Sabrina Merchant
All right, Annie, we've got a full weekend of basketball ahead of us. I know you're going to be in New York for some of it. Tell me, what are you watching? What should the people be watching this weekend?
- [57:10]
Annie Costable
Okay, I'm in New York for the Liberty and the Valkyries tonight, which by the time you guys listen to this, will be old news. So I would set my screen to the Liberty and the Wings on Sunday, which I will also be reporting from live, so tune in for that one. But another interesting One is Wings Dream for me. And that's tomorrow. That's Friday.
- [57:32]
Sabrina Merchant
Yeah, Friday.
- [57:33]
Annie Costable
So when you guys are listening to this, hopefully before the game, I would say tune in for the Wings and the Dream.
- [57:40]
Sabrina Merchant
Yeah, I think I'm actually just really interested in tempo versus Fire this weekend. You know, two expansion teams going at it. I kind of feel like there's a bit of a rivalry between the two of them just because they entered the league at the same time. And you would naturally expect Portland and Toronto to be in any sort of competition. But I hope that there's a little bit of juice in that matchup.
- [57:59]
Annie Costable
Yeah, I would support that. I think the more rivalries, the better. It's like, can we please make the Liberty and the Aces bitter rivals like this seems natural not to get off subject, but yeah, the more rivalries, the better. So if it's the tempo and the Fire, bring it on.
- [58:18]
Sabrina Merchant
We're not gonna just like willy nilly try to create rivalries. I want to put that out there. Like there's. There's gotta be a reason for these things. I think Liberty Aces is well established.
- [58:27]
Annie Costable
Sabrina's not, but I am. I have. I have a burner Twitter account. I'm just joking.
- [58:34]
Sabrina Merchant
Doubt it. Honestly, I would not doubt it. I'm.
- [58:36]
Annie Costable
I'm totally joking, you guys. Please don't make that a thing. I do not have a.
- [58:40]
Sabrina Merchant
The reason why she's joking is because Annie will engage completely, 100% from the heart on her regular Twitter account. So she doesn't need a burner for that.
- [58:49]
Annie Costable
Yeah. Why? Why hide? It's like, say it with your chest, baby.
- [58:53]
Sabrina Merchant
All right, that is all we have for today. We will be back next Tuesday to dive into our Memorial Day no off season mailbag. So thank you all for sending your questions in for. If you haven't already, please sign up for the Athletics no off season newsletter that Annie and I write that drops every Tuesday. We hope you've been enjoying that so far and be sure to follow our show. If you're watching on YouTube, please subscribe. Tell your friends to check us out. While you're at it, give us a rating. Drop a comment. We love to hear from you. We read all of the comments, I promise. On behalf of the athletic and Annie Costable, I am Sabrina Merchant. Thank you for listening and we will see you next time. No option Season is hosted by Zena K with Chantelle Jennings, Sabrina Merchant, Blasia Clarendon and Annie Costable. It's produced by Tanika Burrell. Our executive producer is Andrea B. Scott. Monica Compton is our video editor. Our theme music is by Marcus Bagala. Shannon Ryan is managing editor of Women's basketball at the Athletic. Be sure to like and subscribe. We drop new episodes every Tuesday, Thursday and.
- [59:57]
Capital One Bank Announcer
With no fees or minimums on checking accounts, it's no wonder the Capital One bank guy is so passionate about banking. With Capital One. If he were here, he wouldn't just tell you about no fees or minimums. He'd also talk about how most Capital One cafes are open seven days a week to assist with your banking needs. Yep, even on weekends, it's pretty much all he talks about in a good way. What's in your wallet? Terms apply. See capitalone.combank Capital One NA Member FDIC Security Program on spreadsheets, new regulations piling up and audit dread. It's time for Vanta. Vanta automates security and compliance, brings evidence into one place and cuts audit prep by 82%. Less manual work, clearer visibility, faster deals, zero chaos. Call it compliance or call it compliance. Get it join the 15,000 companies using Vanta to prove trust. Go to vanta.com calm marketers.
- [60:58]
Sabrina Merchant
You know that feeling when your creative clicks, when that social post sends engagement through the roof. When your outside of the box campaign hits ROI positive. When a personalized homepage turns prospects into customers. It's utter marketing bliss. Contentful helps you create tailored omnichannel experiences without working overtime. No stress, no limits, only possibilities. Get the feels@contentful.com.