← No Offseason: The Athletic Women's Basketball Show
No Offseason: The Athletic Women's Basketball Show
Why Player-Coach Connections Fuel March Madness Success + Expansion Draft 101
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- [00:00]
Zena Caida
It's finally March, and you know what that means. Bracket season, baby. Picture it. You're hosting the big tourney game, you've got your jersey, you're looking good, and now all you need is, well, everything else to host. No sweat though, because you're a Sam's Club member. And one trip you say yes to grabbing everything you need and to getting it all for unbelievably low prices. Plates, cups, tables, chairs, pizza, wings, snacks, sweets and the ultimate three pointer. A big screen tv. Heck, you could even get it delivered. That's because the play that Sam's Club runs is called yes. And it means getting just what you need and enjoying the perks that come with membership like express delivery, bonus points. So even if you don't win your bracket, you'll win best host. Join Sam's Club, the club of yes and on eligible items, terms and fees apply. See samsclub.com yes and for details.
- [00:57]
Pablo Torre
Hi, this is Pablo Torre from Pablo Torre Finds out and today I want to talk to you about Boost Mobile because we spend a lot of time analyzing inefficiencies in sports, overvalued contracts, money tied up in the wrong places, and so on. But those inefficiencies aren't just on a roster. Sometimes they're in your own monthly expenses. Boost Mobile says switching to their $25 Unlimited Forever plan can unlock up to $600 in savings a year. That's $25 a month for unlimited data, talk and text when you bring your own phone. If that money is trapped in a pricey phone bill. If you it might be worth a second look. Visit boostmobile.com to learn more. After 30 gigabytes, customers may experience slower speeds. Customers pay $25 per month as long as they remain active on the Boost Mobile Unlimited Plan savings claim. Based on a January 2026 Boost Mobile survey of 1,000Americans with single line unlimited plans, comparing average annual payments of major carriers to 12 months on the Boost Mobile Unlimited plan. For full offer details, visit boostmobile.com with
- [01:54]
Capital One Bank Guy
no fees or minimums on checking accounts, it's no wonder the Capital One bank guy is so passionate about banking with Capital One. If he were here, he wouldn't just tell you about no fees or minimums. He'd also talk about how most Capital One cafes are open seven days a week to assist with your banking needs. Yep, even on weekends, it's pretty much all he talks about in a good way. What's in your wallet? Terms apply. See capital1.com bank capital1NA member FDIC.
- [02:39]
Zena Caida
Hello, everyone, and welcome to no Off Season, presented by Sam's Club. I'm Zena Caida.
- [02:43]
Lajah Clarendon
And I'm Lazia Clarendon.
- [02:45]
Zena Caida
Today on the show, the madness of March is in full swing. It's been intense, edge of your seat type of basketball and in some cases, you know, kind of up in your face type of basketball, as we saw in one viral moment on the Maryland sidelines. So as Sweet 16 games tip off today, we are wondering about the impact of coaching from the player's perspective and how big moments feel when they're happening. But first, like Shantel said yesterday, when it rains, it pours. So we can't just focus on the tournament. There's too much stuff happening in the WNBA space that we've got to get into. First up, some comments were made about our friend Commissioner Kathy. Kathy Engelbert's future in the W is a bit unclear after comments from the NBA Commissioner Adam Silver were made on Wednesday during a press conference. Now, he praised WNBA commissioner Kathy Engelbert for her leadership of the wnba, but he wasn't exactly committal about Kathy's tenure as head of the W after this season. So, Lajah, you someone that played in the league while Kathy was at the top and has been at the top, what do you think is going on here? What is Adam Silver saying and what is he not saying?
- [04:03]
Lajah Clarendon
Oh, I mean, he's definitely non committal. He's giving us that, like, I'm not proposing, but I'm not. Not a. I mean, but I think he, in the grand scheme of the picture, he's not gonna make a comment about her future. Right. And he, he also put it back on her of, like, I'm not sure what she wants to do. Right. And that's oftentimes when people do part ways, you always want it to be amicable. You want it to be, you know, beautiful endings of like, let's just walk off under the sunset. So that could be what they're alluding to. And Kathy could be done too, right. She was with Deloitt. She's done an excellent job in terms of the numbers of growing the business. Like, hands down, you have to give her that across the board. She has grown our league. She's made mistakes. Right. She hasn't had the best, like, relational aspect with players. We saw the big moment with the FISA Collier blow up last season. I personally have had experiences with her across the board. I've had really strong, amazing experiences with her showing up for me with top surgery. Like, she was on the phone calling me, talking to me, like, what do you need? Like, this was back when I was like, yo, I don't want to become a talking point. Like, I want to make sure I belong in this league. And she was like, okay, I'll write a statement. I will send it to you. Like, so I ride hard with her in that perspective of like, she hasn't always shown up for players in the best ways, in different ways, right? She's human. And in certain ways, she does show up in moments. Right. But I think the big thing about this last CBA negotiation was narrative, right? It actually worked out really well from a narrative perspective for people to be able to get behind, like, the boss, right? Fighting the boss. Like, she's the person you gotta blame. You're like, yo, Kathy's the one. Kathy's the reason we don't got our money, right? And then the fans can be like, yeah, right? And you. You know what it's like playing sports sometimes you gotta hate the head coach. You're like, nah, forget the coach.
- [05:48]
Zena Caida
You gotta get something to be rally up. And some coaches are okay with that, Are okay with being the focal point of the energy. And you're right. Kathy was absolutely kind of like the pinnacle of all the things that were wrong with the league. And then the Nafeesa Collier comments kind of just made it easier to direct that energy.
- [06:05]
Lajah Clarendon
Yes. It galvanized people, galvanized the fans, galvanized the players. And it worked, right? And now they're in that room. You see the picture of Neca taking it. Everyone's smiling. We got the deal done. So who knows where the tensions lie now in terms of, like, interpersonal. It seems like everyone's happy, everyone's getting paid. Right? No one pays attention to the fact that Kathy does have a board of governors. She's not the one that can literally just be like, y' all could have money or I want to keep the money. Like, she's. But she's the forward facing leader, and that's a part of it. You take on that as a leader, that is your job. And so I think Adam is like, we'll see 1,000%.
- [06:40]
Zena Caida
And, you know, it is fair. One, I appreciate you sharing the anecdote about how, you know, she supported you through that time of your life. That is very. I have not heard that before. And so I think that that is something that I think a lot of fans would be interesting to know that she has shown up for folks in individual moments, because it is true. You can't run the gamut or like go through the resume of. Well, she did this and she did that. It is this larger narrat. Uh, and in the last year it's been. Kathy hasn't. She's been the face of the league that isn't paying the players. Um, and that feels, in that way, problematic. And now they did get their deal done. They got a CBA done. They did get monumental changes in that way. And I'm very curious of, you know, what the overall narrative for the players are and the owners, because for the longest, Kathy was doing exactly what she was supposed to be doing, which is getting more money for the owners. Y' all forget that. That's her bosses. Those are the people that she is supposed to, you know, report to and advocate for or even for and in defense of. And so it feels like the owner should probably really be happy and now the players should be content. I don't know if they're happy, but they're pleased in some way. So, yeah, this will be very, very interesting to see what she does next. Okay, let's move on to another big piece of information and news that we got from the W expansion draft. We got a date. Lajah, There's a date. The Portland Fire and the Toronto Tempo expansion draft is set for Friday, April 3rd. Now, some of you are thinking that is. Doesn't. Is it hold on the Final four? Is that the. Ain't that the same day? Yes, yes, it is. Yes, it is. Yes, it is a wild time right now in women's basketball. Things are starting to overlap, but details have emerged about what the expansion draft will be, how it will play out. Uh, and we're going to try to quickly summarize it for you. So it is going to be a two round draft and the main reason that it's two rounds is because they want to ensure that as the pro, the Toronto Tempo and Portland Fire are choosing in each round, one team doesn't suffer a loss twice in the same round. So they want to ensure that if Toronto chooses someone from the Dallas Wings in that first round, Portland can't choose somebody from that same team until the second round. Okay, so it's gonna be two round. Each team is going to get six picks per round in this two round draft format. And a coin toss is going to decide who picks first or takes sixth in the regular draft. Okay, the picks are gonna alternate Snake format and the team that's picking first in round one is going to get the second pick in round two. Hope that makes sense of the Snake Format. Now, Lei, we know that Portland and Toronto are picking players or picking from the pool of players that are currently in the W. We know that each existing team can protect up to five players. Last year with Golden State, it was six. So now it's down to five, which is, you know, even more of a core now to choose from for teams.
- [09:56]
Lajah Clarendon
And only starting five.
- [09:58]
Zena Caida
Exactly. There you go. Only unprotected players are eligible for for expansion selection. Now, Sabrina has a piece up on the site with some of her most enticing picks. So if y' all listen, go, go check that out. But I'm curious, Laijah, for you, what names stand out to you?
- [10:15]
Lajah Clarendon
Oh, God, that was a good piece by Sabrina. I was reading that yesterday. Um, I'm not gonna go with all the Valkyries players, but there's quite a few on the Valkyries roster that stand out to me. Cecchi Zanellissini is like a big one. And the Valkyries got her an expansion draft last year. She was from the Minnesota Lynx. Tremendous player, veteran, knows how to score, was really good for the team. Dorca is huge for me. Another player from the Lynx. There's a theme with like, well run teams with good coaches, with good culture, right? Because you know when you're getting a player from that team, you know what you're getting. You know, they've been coached. You know, they understand icing, they understand schemes, they understand in the game situation. So Dorca size. And then now we're talking about money because we have to factor in the fact that what does a player cost now? And it's that new number. I'm like, oh, 3:18. Wait, that used to be a super, super, super max in the old cba. Now that's a rookie salary. So I'm. My head's like spinning when I think about all of them. I really like Chloe Bibby too. Like, post players are. And point guards are hard to come by. And maybe what, 40% last year for the Valkyries? The thing that I liked about her from three was she stayed ready. Like, her mental resilience was. Didn't matter. She came in on the contract, she gonna play three minutes. That shot, that release was high.
- [11:27]
Zena Caida
She was an automatic yes. And she just was ready.
- [11:32]
Lajah Clarendon
Like she liked the moment it was. She's so mature. Like, she really stood out to me, her confidence. And I love Carla late. That's like the young, spicy player. I'm curious how she'll do on other teams because I know her. And Janelle Salon. It was like so important to have that connection. So I hope they don't get broken up. But a young point guard with so much upside. So you're like, she just has so many years to go and a lot of room to develop. So those are kind of the four that initially jumped out to me.
- [12:01]
Zena Caida
Yeah, it, it feels like if you are a GM for Portland or Toronto, like you are choosing between trying to find those established players that can come in and, and help set your culture, help set like a standard of the way you want to play. So, you know, I'm thinking about that Dorca aspect, that Cecchi, Zander, Lesini, these folks that have been in systems that work, they know how to work, they know how to set that bar. But then you're also trying to balance. How do I set. Find someone that can help bring the future to my team. Right. And the Carla late picks are very, you know, enticing in that way. Folks also that are on the rookie scale contracts. That is also enticing. Yes, it's a $7 million salary cap, but you still want to be able to get some great talent at a great rate if you're a gm. So this is a, this is very interesting. Now. Could this be the one name that we did not mention that I think, you know, it was, I believe it was first on Sabrina's list. And this is where I'm like, it's very rare you're going to get like a potential superstar. And I mean, someone that is already established as an all star. Arike Gumbawale could be a superstar starting a new franchise. You know, is this an opportunity here for Portland, Toronto, and could that be a sign if we see that Arike is not protected by. Are we immediately thinking, oh, shoot, Az Fudd, whoever's in that number one draft pick, they're coming to Dallas and Az Fudd is probably going to be chosen in that. In that role.
- [13:32]
Lajah Clarendon
Yeah, I think it's probable. I mean, yeah, we cannot mention Ariko Gumbo, Wally, the fact that she could be on a roster and like, you just don't get a player like that very often. Like, it's just unheard of. So I think the thing that I think is interesting about style of play, one, I think you're gonna see what Portland and Toronto want to do with their style of play. That's like, it's like the first tale, like, who are they drafting? Right. So when the Valkyries drafted last year, people were like, what? This roster makes sense. People are blowing me up. And I was like the number one thing I saw for the Valkyries last season was culture. I looked across the board at those players and I was like, oh, they're not around. Like, they don't want anybody. There's not one player on that list. And I played with about half of them. That is a culture problem. Even, like, Julie Van Leeu, I never played with her, but I played against her. And I was like, she was a sweetheart. Like, we competed. So instantly you could tell that that organization had an identity from day one. And so now I'm looking identity wise of like, okay. And the other thing that stuck out to me was people who were underrated and people who were gritty, like, who had heart. So it was like culture and heart were the two things. So now what is Portland drafting? Are they drafting athleticism? Are they willing to take a risk on a player who's maybe been more volatile in their career? Right. Are they going to throw money? What's Toronto? What's Sandy Brondello going to do with her system? And I think the thing I love about Ari is although she hasn't been the most efficient throughout her career, we've seen her play well with Paige, we've seen their relationship develop publicly and Paige have her back. And Enrique gets, like, kind of a villain story about her, about being a ball hog. And, like, she's been in Dallas with no real talent, with coaching changes constantly, with what leadership has she had around her? Like a really good veteran culture, it matters who's around you. And so in that way, I think what 3 on 3 has done with UN arrival has given an opportunity to say, like, I'm not saying she'd come off the bench for a W squad, but she came off the bench with that team. Right? And she played a role. We've seen Arike develop throughout her career and. And learn how to play a role within a system, to know, yes, she's a player who will take that shot and you want taking that shot, but she understands she doesn't always have to be. And I think that makes me a little more like, ooh, I want an Ariquet, right? Like. Like, could she be something to continue to build around in the future? It makes her more enticing to me, 1000%.
- [15:48]
Zena Caida
This is gonna. But it's also. It's gonna be enlightening. So if you're a fan of a team, you're gonna learn very quickly who matters on this team, to a front office, to a coaching staff. Because the five, you're right, it could be. It could be the starting five from last year. Or it could be some members of that starting five and then some youngins that we haven't seen just yet that there's belief in, and there's more belief in their potential than there might be in the today production of someone that's in the starting five. So, anyways, it's gonn interesting to see.
- [16:24]
Lajah Clarendon
It's a whole episode.
- [16:25]
Zena Caida
It's a whole episode. We're gonna definitely be in the midst of all that, so don't worry. We'll have that covered for you on the expansion draft next week. And some more dates to mark. Training camp, April 19th, baby. Training camps kick off April 19th. Exhibition games, preseason games, April 25th, and then the regular season tips off on May 8th. I cannot wait. Okay, first.
- [16:49]
Lajah Clarendon
Okay, I don't have time to get ready. Then, like, all the w retired players who are like, I'm coming out.
- [16:53]
Zena Caida
It's here. It's here.
- [16:54]
Lajah Clarendon
I'm coming out for the money.
- [16:56]
Zena Caida
Nope. Right? Literally, we might lose leja, y'. All. I don't know. Leysha might suit back up, but. No, no, no, no. I'm gonna get.
- [17:04]
Lajah Clarendon
I've been lifting. I've been lifting.
- [17:05]
Zena Caida
Okay. All right, all right. On the other side of this break, we're gonna talk about what it's like to be on the court for the big dance. It's finally March, and you know what that means. Bracket season, baby. Picture it. You're hosting the big tourney game. You've got your jersey, you're looking good, and now all you need is, well, everything else to host. No sweat, though, because you're a Sam's Club member. In one trip, you say yes to grabbing everything you need and to getting it all for unbelievably low prices. Plates, cups, tables, chairs, pizza, wings, snacks, sweets, and the ultimate three pointer. A big screen tv. Heck, you could even get it delivered. That's because the play that Sam's Club runs is called yes. And it means getting just what you need and enjoying the perks that come with membership, like express delivery, bonus points. So even if you don't win your bracket, you'll win best host. Join Sam's Club, the club of yes. And on eligible items, terms and fees apply. See samclub.com yes and for details.
- [18:13]
Capital One Bank Guy
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- [18:44]
Kelly Clarkson
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- [19:20]
Zena Caida
Okay Lajah sweet 16 it's happening. We're gonna have some games today and we wanna take a minute to talk a little bit about the importance and impact of coaching. I'm gonna tell you what. This came to me and it was inspired by something that happened on the sidelines of the Maryland UNC second round matchup. It's gone viral. By now, I'm sure you all have seen it, the clip, pictures, the quote. But it was an intense sideline exchange between head coach Brenda Freese and junior guard Oluche Okonoma. Now, for those of you that did not see it live, or maybe you haven't seen it in general, but Maryland was in a very critical stretch of the game and Alushi was not playing well. She had turned the ball over, she had missed some free throws and it was clear that Coach Freeze was trying to get in her mind of like, hold on, know who you are, know what you're capable of. And it's also important to give the context that Alushi played at Duke the year before and I don't know if that psyched her out at all because Duke and UNC had their thing going back and forth. So she was not a stranger to this UNC team and she was not playing well. Coach Freeze, who is known to be high energy, who is known to be intense, she just gets in Alucci's face and she is animated, she's emphatic, she's got her finger in Alucci's face telling her, basically, I don't, I believe in you, but I can't want this moment for you. You've got to want it for yourself. I'm paraphrasing but that is essentially the gist of what she was saying. And Alucci's like nodding her head. She's focused, it's tense, but she is absorbing it clearly. So online, as I mentioned, this clip goes viral and it kind of became a Rorschach test. Like, what are you seeing? Do you see freeze being too intense? Does she need to back up? Does she need to chill out? Or is this exactly what Aluchi needed and wanted in this moment? I got thoughts. But lay, I gotta ask you first because you've been in these type of moments, you've seen these type of exchanges. What did you see when you watched this?
- [21:29]
Lajah Clarendon
Ooh, on initial, I saw like from a zoomed out lens. I mean, I'm a player, so I get coaches yelling at you. That part didn't really phase me. But I had a, like I had a twinge of a moment when I was like, ooh, racially, like I feel something right? Like that. And I think that's the tension people are feeling online and like, ah. And that doesn't mean it's right or wrong, Right. I think it's just naming it. It's just like, oh, all of a sudden you just see a white woman pointing her finger in a young black girl's face like this and you' like, ah, I feel some racial tension. Right? The tension that we don't reconcile with very well in our country. And so I think that is absolutely at play here. And then you zoom in closer and you're like, oh, I see a relationship between a coach and a player. I see a coach pushing a player. I see that there's trust between these two. That's the thing that allows this to be possible. Right? Otherwise you would have seen Aluchi's body language be like. Or you would have seen, right, some kind of reaction. And then we go on to see the press conference where she affirms that. We see articles from the athletic, we see, yes, they have relationship, which is what allows the trust to be able to push her like that. We learned that actually she wants to be pushed this way. She wants to be, she wants to reach her highest potential. Right? And so Brenda knows that that's she can coach her that way. And so I think all of it is true. And people online are just trying to be like, ah, what do I, how do I sit with all this? How do I make sense of it 1000%?
- [22:54]
Zena Caida
But the, the visual of any older white woman looking what feels like down only because Alucci's a little smaller than her yelling at her. And it feels like, you know, Alucci can't say anything. She's in the moment, et cetera. And that does give you a little bit of, this is not okay. But I'll say, like, when I first saw it, because Alucci was nodding her head the whole time, it did give me a vibe of, okay, this is, in their world, normal, no matter how we feel. This is how they operate, and this is cool. And that was only solidified by the fact that after, you know, the articles came out and the conversations came out, like, as Brenda Freeze said, the elite want to be coached. Like, they. They want to be at that level. And you saw the text messages come out between Brendan Freese where she apologized to Aluci, and Alucci came back and told her, like, no, this is exact. This is what I want to be coach. Like, this is what I want is to be pushed to this moment. And I think that this is so rare in the large scheme of basketball, like, in the large scheme of men and women's basketball, especially women's basketball, is to have this level of a relationship where you can be spoken to like that. And it's not. There's no offense taken and there's no tension from it. It is. This is called intensity. This is called, I am coaching you to your full and greatest potential. I remember, I believe it was Sue Bird's book in which she talks about how Coach Auriemma broke down Tina Charles, but he broke her down to build her back up. And the conversation was basically like he was telling Tina Charles, one of the best players in the country at the time, freshman year, like, you ain't nothing just yet. Again, paraphrasing, but basically just telling you ain't accomplished nothing just yet, so that he could build her back up to who she is now. And we don't know all the details of that, but that has always resonated in my mind of it takes a very special relationship to allow that to happen and for the player to be okay with that. And I want to ask you, over the course of your career, whether it was in college, to the pros, that dynamic. How often did you get that dynamic where you were so locked in with your coach and they understood how you wanted to be coached? Like, what does it feel like to have that dynamic? Cause I'm gonna tell you right now, I didn't have that in college. So what did you experience?
- [25:43]
Lajah Clarendon
You didn't have a coach. You didn't have, like, the being pushed the way you wanted to.
- [25:47]
Zena Caida
I didn't have the relationship, the trust. Like, don't get me wrong, we got pushed, but I didn't have a coach that understood that had built the trust with me where I felt like she knew my game, she knew my intent, she knew what would help me. Click. And I think a lot of players on our team didn't quite have that. And so it didn't feel whenever we did get yelled at or whenever we did get motivated and I put motivated in quotes, it didn't feel authentic. And it felt more like a negative dynamic more so than a positive dynamic
- [26:29]
Lajah Clarendon
in those moments. Often more the experience, and that's often more the experience.
- [26:32]
Zena Caida
I feel like it is more rare to have players be coached at that intensity. And it is the foundation is there to have that be able to happen.
- [26:44]
Lajah Clarendon
Yeah. I think we're getting at a few different things. One is, like, coaching style. Right. How do coaches. The best coaches can coach the way players need. Right. And some coaches just coach their style. They're like, take it or leave it. Right. And I think particularly this Brenda Freeze one brings up, like, this old school mentality that's kind of still present right now because you don't see that as much. There's like, the kids can't be coached these days. They can't be yelled at. They're soft and like. Right. There's some maybe truth to everybody, you know, generational saying of like. But also, like, the young people are like, don't yell in my face either. Because, like, I don't. We also don't take the same abuse we used to do. Right.
- [27:20]
Zena Caida
It's all true. Right.
- [27:21]
Lajah Clarendon
So I think there's a lot there. We could do a whole episode just on the coaching psychology. But for me, the thing that you said that sticks out to me and has been true in my experience has been trust. It has been. When I know a coach cares about me, it's kind of like maybe regardless of style, I know that they. Because sometimes I do need to be built up and, like, believe in myself. Right. Sometimes being yelled at makes you feel worse because you're already yelling at yourself inside and you need someone to say. And I thought this was interesting about Brenda was. She was intense, but she was saying, I believe in you.
- [27:50]
Zena Caida
Yes.
- [27:51]
Lajah Clarendon
And I had a moment of like, wow. I've never had that. I never had someone be yelling at me. But saying it in a. Like, because you're gonna run, like. Cause you're that. Yeah. You're that person.
- [28:00]
Zena Caida
Yeah.
- [28:01]
Lajah Clarendon
Yeah.
- [28:01]
Zena Caida
I know what you want to say.
- [28:02]
Lajah Clarendon
Yelling at me to be better Yep. And I've had the, like, softer. I believe in you, and that's been great. So one of the coaches that really stuck out to me when I played and she was so hard on me, and we still have a relationship to this day, is Lynn Dunn from the Indiana Fever. And she was like, old school. She's got that accent. She's from Tennessee. She'd just be like, lay'sia, why did you do that? Just, like, tearing me up. And I was a point guard. So, like, she's known to have a point guard full of. A graveyard full of point guards. That is, like. That's a well known fact about her. When I came into the league, Charmin Smith was at Cal. She's still there. She coached me. She was, like, kind of preparing me. Like, Lynn's intent. I go there. Oh, my God. Like, she kind of is the coach to, like, everything's the point guard's fault. Because it. So if a play went wrong, if I made the pass, if something, it's like, why'd you make that pass? And then, like, it pushed me. I go on to play for over a decade, and I credit the Indiana Fever and Lynn Dunn a ton. Stephanie White and Brion January, because, like, that helped me have the foundation as a point guard that I have. But the thing that Lynn did was she tore me apart every day. Like, I was like, oh, my God. Like, I'll go home and cry. I would. Like, I would leave the gym. Like, did I do anything right today? Like, the other assistant coach would, like, come hug me, and I'd be like, thank you.
- [29:15]
Pablo Torre
But.
- [29:16]
Lajah Clarendon
But the thing about Lynn was I would. We would talk in the airport. Like, she would seek me out in the airport or. Or like I was somehow. I don't know if this was Ricky hazing or she did it. I would end up sitting by her on the plane. We still. I'd get my ticket. I'd. A couple times, I'd go to check in the flight, and they'd be like, oh, your seat changed. I'd be like, all right, whatever. Like, someone took my seat. Whatever. I sit down, I look over. God damn. Like, I'm sitting next to Linda. I don't want to sit by you. You're just so mean to me all day, yelling at me. I want to. You know, I want to be mad at you because, like, I'm like, ugh, this. This lady's rude. But then she's, like, asking about my family. She. Right. So we were building trust, so she knew how relationally then to like tear into me, but know that she cared about me as a person. Linda was a part of a pride panel, one of the first ones we ever did in Indiana. We called it Equality Night, right? So we, she got to know me. We ended up having like this beautiful relationship. It was queer, elder and a young person. And we still text to this day because I'm like, I am better, right? Like, I'm better because of her. I wanted that kind of coaching. Although I was like, I could use a little, I could have used a little softer, but like, also right? That's her, like, that's her style and she's very clear in it of like, if you can exist in this, you will end up thriving. And I ended up playing for 11 years.
- [30:32]
Zena Caida
You know, I, as I listened to that and it does feel like there's a balance of, as you mentioned, the trust and the care. And I don't think I could find exactly that word. I don't necessarily think that my college coach didn't care about me, but from a basketball perspective, I don't think that my game was recognized in the way that it could have been and should have been. And the way I say that is because I look at these players now and I listen to how they talk about watching film and how they talk about scouts and how they talk about preparing for games. And I remember watching back. I mean, the fact that I can now go look at all of my clips from college and synergy is disgusting. But I look at how many shots, how many shots I took that were two inches on the free throw or the three point line, like just like two, like just one step in front of the three point line. And I imagine, why was there not an effort to say, hey, here's your clips for the last, your freshman year, sophomore year, et cetera, you keep shooting almost threes. Let's focus on this part of your game this year so that you can become a more consistent three point shooter, right? And to me that's how I would see it as, oh, you care. You have actually pointed out the parts of my game that are strengths and you are working in my individuals, et cetera, and the way that we play the game and the way that I'm incorporated into the game to highlight said strengths. And it did not feel that that was the case for all of our team. Now, I don't want to get into my therapy session about my collegiate career, but I, I, I want to take what we're saying and then look at what's going on. The NCAA tournament right now. And I, I've already mentioned ginorieyama and I'm talking about from a Gina tonight, a Tina Charles perspective. And people have already mentioned, like alums of UConn have already mentioned that Gino's softer now. He's pretty much like the grandpa from up. Like, he is a little bit, he's a little bit calmer in the way that he, you know, approaches coaching now. But I look at the fact that he's got a progeny in Shay Ralph coaching Vanderbilt and I hear Shay Ralph talk about Mikayla Blakes and talk about how she's built and her intensity. And I look at her and I'm like, I wonder what that looks like. Because Mikayla Blakes isn't a real player. But as Shay Ralph has said, she's a sweetheart. And then the court, I mean, the second she gets on the court, she will rip your heart out from your chest. And what kind of coaching do you need to be able to tap into that? Then you look at Dawn Staley. She has a very similar vibe of like, care. So much care. I mean, she literally gave gifts to Southern, I think before they played, I can't remember, but like someone liked her set and she gave samples to the team and then went and beat them by 70 points. It's like there's a balance of, I, I love you, I care about you, I respect you. There's a respect factor as well that you see in some of these high performing coaches. But I'm curious, like, as you look around the teams that are still in the mix of these things, like Carol Lawson and, and, and Vic Sch, Jeff Waltz, like folks that are going into the sweet 16, what kind of coaching are you attracted to? Like that you're kind of, you see the benefits of and it could be a variety. But I'm just curious what you're seeing in terms of styles of coaching that is producing well run teams in the ncaa.
- [33:55]
Lajah Clarendon
Oh, that's such a good question. You just named so many good coaches too. I'm like going all over the place. I mean, I love that Don jumps out to me for her. I think about regulation as a coach. Like, are you a coach who knows the temperature of your team? That's like the biggest thing to me. Like, are you a coach that like, as a player, a player should never feel like they have to manage their coach? Right. Like when a coach is so unhinged that now I'm worried about you instead of the game. Right. As a point guard, I end up managing My coach and the other four players and the referees. And so I think temperament's important for any coach. That's like, one of the big things that sticks out to me and I love to coach Nikase's temperament, like, right away for the Valkyries, like, she's just a gem. Watching her, like, she commands the floor, but she also. We can get to the WNBA later. But also has an intensity. I think it's a balance, right? And I think dawn, like, has an intensity about her, but she has balance with, like, the care, the respect of her player. She was a player. She gets it. I think a Jeff Balls is an interesting one because he's really intense, right, with his players also. He's one that's going to be like,
- [34:58]
Zena Caida
ba, ba, ba, ba.
- [34:59]
Lajah Clarendon
Like, he's yelling at them and he also pours into them, too. So I can see, like, you can be a yeller, but you can be a pour into as well.
- [35:06]
Zena Caida
Right?
- [35:07]
Lajah Clarendon
And so I think it's important for a coach to have a very clear style, like who they are, but have balance within it. And I. I love a big shaper, like, his deep. I love when a coach is up clapping, like, basically, like, they're playing defense with you. Like, that gets me fired.
- [35:22]
Zena Caida
Yeah.
- [35:22]
Lajah Clarendon
When they're like, da, da, da.
- [35:24]
Zena Caida
That.
- [35:24]
Lajah Clarendon
Like, you don't have to be, you know, the coaches who just sit there and have that.
- [35:28]
Zena Caida
Right.
- [35:28]
Lajah Clarendon
Like, your team also feeds off your energy. Like, and those coaches who be stomping in the best ways, not in the. Like, I'm waiting to tear you apart because you came off the court stomping at you, but in the, Like, I'm out there with you, giving it to you, yelling, like, get up. Like, Cheryl used to yell at me like, leija, get up. And I'd be like, okay, I'm tired. Like, I'd be like, ah, ah. Like, you know, pick her up at half court. Pick her up. Pick her up. It just. It just kind of. You need it. It's exhausting playing out there.
- [35:51]
Zena Caida
It makes me think of, you know, they're no longer in the tournament, but like, coach yo at Ole Miss is that, you know, that type of player, you know, got to give credit where credit's due. Kim Mulkey be stomping in them heels with the team. Okay. Like, gets up and down the. I would love to put a meter on Kim Mokey's wrist to find out how many calories she's burning through the game. I. I watched her specifically in. It might have been their first round game. It's the game where she had the Jersey blazer on in the tournament this year. I can't remember now. But either way, she. Literally, every call she would be like, it's travel. It's travel. Every call she'd be like, oh, someone's in the paint. She's down, she's squatting down, she's getting up. She. Nothing's ever not even happened. Like, the ball's gone out of bounds. She is automatically pantomiming some call that the ref should have made. And she is with her team. And that's why I think, you know, there's a lot of questions about who Kim Mulkey is as a person and what her values are, et cetera. We are gonna get in here to debate them here, but I'm gonn right now, her team rides for her. Rides for her. They love her, Fuji. All. All of these alums for not all of them, but a lot of these alums, they come back, they love her, they ride with her. And I do think that it is exactly what you're talking about and that, you know, your coach, Lynn Dunn, for example, made you better. And Kim Mulkey, from basketball perspective for sure, at least makes these players better and that. That there's a gravitational pull to that. Now, I want to ask, because the reason why we're even talking about this moment with Brenda Freeze and Aluci Okonomwa is this was a crucial juncture in the game for Maryland. They weren't playing well and they weren't winning. And Alucci gets that talk and comes out in the second half a different player. She comes out and balls, goes to the basket, getting to the free throw line, playing through contact and physicality. And it was a crucial moment. And we see these things all the time. And we're going to see them going into the Sweet 16. These games about to be way closer. It's not about to be these blowouts that we've been seeing. And so now thinking about what a coach, a coach perspective is important to have the kind of coach you need to have. I think about the moment on the men's side when St. John's is going up against Kansas, and Darling, the player that ended up taking the only shot that he made during the game gets all the way down the court, gets a way up and wins the game for them. He was the one that brought that, that call, that play call to Rick Pitino, and Pitino had to be humble enough to be like, we're gonna go with this, I guess. But you ain't hit a shot all game like you. You know, he had to be. He had to have trust. He had to respect his player enough to see what he was seeing. How important is it to have a coach that is willing to. In those moments at the end of the game or in the moments where your star player isn't being a star or just crucial moments throughout the games? What do you need in a coach in those moments? And what are we. What can we expect to see as the Sweet 16 and the NCAA tournament rolls on?
- [39:11]
Lajah Clarendon
Oh, I mean, the theme is trust, I think today. What do you need in a coach? It's. It's trust back and forth. I think, especially with your, you know, your point guards or your commanders on the floor. There's just such a synergy between. And I'm thinking about, you know, Kimora Johnson for Virginia who upset Iowa. I'm thinking about the ways that Raven
- [39:33]
Zena Caida
Johnson at South Carolina.
- [39:35]
Lajah Clarendon
Yes, yes, yes. Oh, my God. You can list all of them. Madison Booker with big shaper, right? Like, everyone across the board, and the ways that. One, you need a coach who can command the moment. That's so important. A coach who in the moment is competent, who knows what they want, who grabs that clipboard, right? If it's. If it's asking the team or having a moment, it's not from a. Like, what do you guys want to do? Because I don't know, right? It's like, hey, how do you feel? It's like, it's not because I don't know how to do it as a coach. It's because I genuinely want to know from a player perspective. And I think that's an important balance because some of these coaches be out here, like, I'm player led. It's like, you don't know what actually, right? But when a player commands, like, I have to give so much credit to, like, Steph White, to Cheryl Reeve, like. Like when whenever I was in a timeout with one of them, I was like, oh, we're winning the game.
- [40:24]
Zena Caida
I don't know.
- [40:24]
Lajah Clarendon
I don't care. Right? And I was playing with Tamika Catchings. I played with really good players, too, but there was a way that they commanded a timeout that it was like, bow, I know we're running this play.
- [40:32]
Zena Caida
Boo, boo, boo.
- [40:33]
Lajah Clarendon
And you're like. You're like, hell, yeah, we about to score like that. Like. And there's a confidence that it gives you, right? And so when a player, also a coach, also has that player on the court, like Madison Booker, Kamara Johnson, Hannah Hidalgo, like, that player who you're like,
- [40:46]
Zena Caida
oh, with Neil Ivy, Hannah, like, you
- [40:48]
Lajah Clarendon
can just give the ball, right? Neil Ivey. I'm thinking of the ways that then you have that trust or that player to go make a play, right? There's like, sometimes a coach has to draw up a play in a moment, right, to get that play or another time. It's like you look at a player and you're like, go make a play. We. You know, I need you to just do it. I think about the way Kimora Johnson, like, wasn't particularly playing well against Iowa.
- [41:09]
Zena Caida
No, not at all.
- [41:10]
Lajah Clarendon
Iowa. Excuse me. Right. And so she's got the ball in her hands all game. They're hounding her. She's being guarded by one of the best defenders, right? With so much length and size on her, it looks like they're dead in the water. Paris Clark kind of goes off for a bit, gives them some energy, right? Helps them get into overtime. She was the player of the game.
- [41:28]
Zena Caida
She was.
- [41:29]
Lajah Clarendon
But then, yes, in that way, because she took some of the attention off of Kahmora. And then Kahmora, like, in overtime, still does not matter how many shots she has missed. She gives me vintage Rachel Bantam. Like, she's like, I don't. I'm getting buckets, right? Like, she gives me that. Like, I play the point guard. It's also really hard. So I have to kind of balance scoring and that, which. That's where people, like, when you play point guard and you're a main scorer, right? It's so hard. It's so much work. So I think Kahmora that way. Sometimes people, like, she doesn't show up early enough in games. It's like she's taking on the other team's best guard defender. She's running the team, and she's trying to be the main scorer for the squad. So she came out in overtime. It did not matter. She hit that three. Like, I was like, this girl's. She's unfazed. Sometimes. I'm like, she's still in it, right? And I could see the intensity when they zoom in on her. But she's just kind of like, I'm. I'm poised. I'm not getting flustered. I'm in it. And then she strikes. Like, she does not get flustered. And so if I'm Coach Mox, I'm also thinking, oh, that trust. Like, I know Kimora is good. Like, we got this. I just gotta get her off the ball for a minute. Let her get the ball back on, you know, a stagger action and then put her in a pick and roll. That kind of synergy and trust between a player and a coach.
- [42:33]
Zena Caida
Oh, Coach Mox. There's a really great point in that because Coach Mox was incredibly poised throughout the game, even when calls didn't go her way or her team's way. Like, you could see that there, the steadiness. I think that's incred. Incredibly important to have a coach that, as you mentioned, you don't have to manage throughout the game. There's, there's a steadiness and a, you can trust them to be in control of the moment. And it didn't feel like Coach Mox and any of these coaches that are dealing with superstars or big time players that often have to put the team on their back in moments, they have such steady trust in their player that they're not doing too, too much. And that's why, I think another reason why the Brenda Freeze interaction was just like, whoa. We don't typically see this, but that kind of stuff happens a lot. Lajah. Like, but not necessarily on a sideline. It could be in the locker room, it could be in the hallway to the locker room. Like that. I was not a star player, but I definitely saw our star players get those calls and get those conversations post game, in film, in the game, in the hallway. Like, you know what I mean? Like, it wasn't in those big moments, but I think that. But this is going to be so interesting to see what you're talking about, like the next generation of how they want to be coached and being quote, unquote, player led, et cetera. We've talked a little bit about already some standout players in the tournament that have had the trust in their players. I want to just ask one last question for you. Just like as you watch end of game plays and coaches making those decisions from your experience, what goes into that? Like, how much is it the assistant coaches that are coming up and being like, I got this, or I know what's going on. This was my scout. Let me tell you what's going on. Cause we know that assistant coaches do scouts and then they, you know, bring the plan to the team. Um, players being involved, like, how much does a coach have to be like, let me clear out the noise and lock in with my team in the midst of a, a noisy, rowdy arena. Like, what is that? That moment, like, game is on the line, gotta get locked in. What have you experienced with a coach in those, in those Situations. Ooh.
- [44:53]
Lajah Clarendon
I think college and pro are different.
- [44:55]
Zena Caida
Okay.
- [44:55]
Lajah Clarendon
Definitely. So. And some college programs probably operate a little more pro depending on the level. And we've seen more power dynamics change in the college game where players like, you know, I don't know. I don't know if Neil's looking at Hannah like, hey, you want to come off the left side or the right side? That's the question, like, players might ask, right, which side do you want it on? That might. That's awes. Often a question in the pro game specifically. It's like, way more intense and detailed in terms of, like, players might be grabbing. We've seen Chelsea Gray grab that clipboard, drawing up the play, like, completely. Because in the pros, like, one, the age difference is way closer. Like, we've been playing for a decade, playing for seven years. Like, we're more like peers than the power dynamic that you see in the college game. But regardless, there's. There's the coach knowing, one, what is your team like? Do you have a star that can take the shot? Or do you have to get. And then if you have a star that can take the shot, how are you getting that star of the shot? Right. Regardless. And then two, it's like, do I have a team that's like, ah, I gotta figure out the mismatch. Cause I don't have a Hannah Hidalgo to take the shot. We gotta be like, who's the hottest right now to take the look? And I think that's always an interesting case. And that's what makes it hard in the game situations when you don't have a star to take a shot. You don't have that player who likes, like, Like Louisville is an interesting one because, like, it's Taj Roberts. She's not quite stepped in her stardom yet. Like, she's kind of could be that same Aluchi. Like, do you want it, Taj? Like, are you. And we've seen her take it in a game shot. I think that was South Carolina earlier in the year when they lost and she took the shot of the. Oh, right. Yes, yes. And she's a little quieter, right? Like, she's. Oh, we're. We're not sure if she's gonna like, really step into being like, a star. Like, the difference between a Hannah Hidalgo and her is very evident in, like, their. Their monstrosity. Like their ability to command a moment. And so you have to know what kind of team you have. And I think really good coaches, regardless, can look schematically and say, hey, and this Is when you really get into the pro game or college coaches who are really good, they, they know, hey, they're probably going to switch end of game.
- [46:53]
Zena Caida
Okay.
- [46:54]
Lajah Clarendon
If they're going to switch, we should run a play to slip. Do we need a 2 or a 3? If we need a 3, we're going to run a play right where we can get either one. So you're thinking of all these schemes and that's where coaches who can't command the moment or like just aren't as good at X's and O's or they're not as cerebral. That's the word. I think that's one of the most important in the moment words for coaches is who can be cerebral, who don't have to go back and watch film. Anyone can watch film and tell me what happened. Right? Like, can you tell me in the moment, can you watch the last three plays and be like, okay, can. This is where the scouting comes into play. If that assistant coach knows. Oh, Chicago probably. I'm just using example. They usually switch 1 through 5 at the end of games. I know this coach usually does X style, right? Like Shay Ralph might know. Oh, I know what Geno does at games. Like I was in that locker room with him. I know how he thinks.
- [47:42]
Zena Caida
Right?
- [47:43]
Lajah Clarendon
So then you're trying to get in the brain of the other coach to be like, ah, they're probably going to take a foul. They're probably going to X, Y and Z. So then I'm going to. You're like. And you have to have this chess match in all of a 30 second timeout, right? Or, or minute timeout. All of that processing has to happen for a coach and then has to translate it to the team who then has to go out there and perhaps execute what just happened. Right?
- [48:06]
Zena Caida
Like, that's all I'm gonna tell you right now. My ADHD mind. Absolutely not. I have, people have asked me that all the time, like, oh, you should coach, like do it. I'm like, absolutely not. Because that cerebral aspect is so important. I watch games, of course I can analyze, et cetera. But. But there are coaches that you could ask them. Five plays ago, five plays. I'm ripping off my headset as I say this. Five plays ago, what happened? Because you know, it was a particular play that was run X, Y and Z times or you know what defense that they ran in that five play a go moment. Yeah, this is why I didn't go pro, guys. I don't know what is happening. I don't know on that Note. This is an amazing deep dive on coaching and what you need in that moment from a player perspective, from a team perspective, from a game perspective. Oh, I absolutely adore this.
- [49:02]
Lajah Clarendon
And so fun.
- [49:03]
Zena Caida
I've got one last question before we close this out. It's finally March and you know what that means. Bracket season, baby. Picture it. You're hosting the big tourney game, you've got your jersey, you're looking good, and now all you need is, well, everything else to host. No sweat though, because you're a Sam's Club member. In one trip, you say yes to grabbing everything, everything you need, and to getting it all for unbelievably low prices. Plates, cups, tables, chairs, pizza, wings, snacks, sweets, and the ultimate three pointer. A big screen tv. Heck, you could even get it delivered. That's because the play that Sam's Club runs is called yes. And it means getting just what you need and enjoying the perks that come with membership like express delivery, bonus points. So even if you don't win your brackets, you'll win best host. Join Sam's Club, the club of yes and on eligible items, terms and fees apply. See samclub.com yes and for details.
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- [51:21]
Zena Caida
All right, all right. So before I let you go, Lajah, in the spirit of our coaching conversation and all the game winners so far in this year's tournament, we're gonna close things out with something we like to call Lajah's Lens. It's a new segment where we Kind of see the game from your perspective. You played at Cal, of course. You played 11 years in the wild. What was your most memorable buzzer beating moment? That you got the shot off and it worked.
- [51:54]
Lajah Clarendon
Ooh.
- [51:55]
Zena Caida
Whether it was your shot or someone else's shot, but you were involved as the point guard.
- [52:00]
Lajah Clarendon
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [52:01]
Zena Caida
Ooh.
- [52:02]
Lajah Clarendon
I'm gonna go with the college one. I'll save the W stories for the W season. The college one. We're playing usc. Lindsey Gottlieb's the coach. We're in Hostel Village, and I don't know how much time we had. No timeouts left, so. And we're on the opposite side of the bench. And I look at Lindsay. We need a three. And I look at her. She's like. She was like, make a play. Like, she looked. Cause there was nothing else to do at that moment.
- [52:24]
Zena Caida
The most cerebral of the coaches is like, listen, I don't know what to tell you.
- [52:27]
Lajah Clarendon
She was like, make a play. And I was like, yeah, okay, let's go. Because at that point, you look at your main player and you're like, make a play. Right? Like, you're the one. You're the player. Figure it out. And that's where that pressure comes in. And also the moment. And be like, yeah, I'm that guy. I gotta do it. All right. I don't remember even how I got over there, but somehow got the ball back. We could probably pull it up on Synergy. And I end up hitting a three. Like, going left. Oh, I can't even. I. The ball gets released, and then I might. Yeah, going left in the corner. Release it. I can barely even see if it goes in or not. And my team, like. Because then I'm by the bench and they just literally corral me, like on Top Dog Call me. And.
- [53:07]
Zena Caida
And they're like, we have the show. Oh, my God.
- [53:10]
Lajah Clarendon
And we went. That sent it into overtime. The sad story is we lost it over time, but it sent it in overtime.
- [53:15]
Zena Caida
Hey. Damn.
- [53:16]
Lajah Clarendon
Like, storybook moment. But, yeah, that's.
- [53:18]
Zena Caida
That's all you need. That gives me the Maya Battle moment from Minnesota last round. So that's just. That's so cool.
- [53:26]
Lajah Clarendon
That was a great play.
- [53:27]
Zena Caida
Great play. She hit that reverse jumper. I was like, you better reverse pivot with.
- [53:33]
Lajah Clarendon
See, that was them getting her where they wanted her in the short corner. And then she made a play.
- [53:37]
Zena Caida
She made a play, but they got
- [53:39]
Lajah Clarendon
her in the position.
- [53:39]
Zena Caida
Exactly, exactly. Well, that was an amazing moment to think back, if we can. We'll try and find that clip if we can, but that's amazing. That's gonna be a wrap for today, y'. All. Thank you so much, Lajah, for that insight that was always, always just. I'm grateful we have that to be able to add to the show and to give to our audience. Don't forget to catch us live on Saturday night on YouTube because we got some Sweet 16 reactions we gotta give you right after. So be sure to follow our show so you don't miss that alert. And wherever you're listening or watching, please subscribe. Tell your friends, tell your family, tell everybody that you think may love women's basketball. Even if you don't know, tell them, go follow us because we got some good stuff for them. And give us a rating so this show can be found by others who are looking for similar content. On behalf of the Athletic Lajah Clarendon, I am Zena Kada thanking you for listening and we will see you next time. No Off Season is hosted by Zena Kada with Chantelle Jennings, Sabrina Merchant and Leijah Clarendon. It's produced by Tanika Burrell. Our executive producer is Andrea B. Scott. Monica Compton is our video editor and Charles Childers is our social video editor. Our theme music is by Marcus Bogala. Shannon Ryan is managing editor of women's basketball at the Athletic. Tim McMaster is our director Boss operations and Jesse Burton is global head of Ceres.
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Lajah Clarendon
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- [55:42]
Capital One Bank Guy
or minimums on checking accounts. It's no wonder the Capital One bank guy is so passionate about banking with Capital One. If he were here, he wouldn't just tell you about no fees or minimums. He'd also talk about how most Capital One cafes are open seven days a week to assist with your banking needs. Yep, even on weekends, it's pretty much all he talks about in a good way. What's in your wallet? Terms apply see capitalone.com bank capital1na member FDIC hi, this is Ben Mandelker and Ronnie Karam, host of the Watch what Crappens podcast here to tell you that the HBO original comedy series the Comeback is back for its final season on
- [56:23]
Lajah Clarendon
the Official Comeback Podcast.
- [56:24]
Capital One Bank Guy
Join host Evan Ross Katz along with
- [56:27]
Zena Caida
Lisa Kudrow and Michael Patrick King to
- [56:29]
Capital One Bank Guy
unpack each episode, hear about the show's origins, real life parallels, and why it still resonates with fans after more than two decades. Stream the Comeback on HBO Max and watch the Comeback podcast on HBO Max or listen wherever you get your podcasts.