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- [00:00]
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Sabrina Merchant
Visit pura.com Parle tu France hablas par l'?
- [00:18]
Zena Keda
Italiano?
- [00:20]
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- [00:55]
Zena Keda
The future moves fast.
- [00:57]
Sabrina Merchant
Ave Points Shift happens Podcast is your edge where leaders unpack AI data, modern work and the Mindse mindset shifts that turn change into advantage. Hear what top innovators are trying next.
- [01:09]
Zena Keda
And how to make it work.
- [01:11]
Sabrina Merchant
Visit AVPT co shift today.
- [01:40]
Zena Keda
Hello everyone and welcome to no off season. I'm Zena Caida.
- [01:43]
Chantelle Jennings
I'm Shantelle Jennings.
- [01:45]
Sabrina Merchant
And I'm Sabrina Merchant.
- [01:47]
Zena Keda
And today on the show, the UCLA Bruins are proving week after week that they belong at the top. They're winning games and showing off impressive team cohesion. We're gonna break it all down from the talent that makes this team significant to the experience and leadership that keeps it performing at a high level. And each even the players who are on track for the WNBA this season, everything is aligning for UCLA and we're going to explore exactly why that is. But first, Unrivaled has been continuing on in the backgrounds of our college space and already a team has clinched the playoffs. Laces, I don't know if you guys were watching over the course of the weekend, got their eighth win of the season. So they're the first team to go off to the playoffs. But as Sabrina was telling me before we started recording top 16 go to the playoffs. So pretty much if you're a fan of a team like they're probably going to end up in that situation, uh, there's going to be a very small, small percentage of people that are a little disappointed. But shout out to the laces. They have been dominant and getting some really big wins, but they also revealed their brackets for the one on one tournament. Playoffs are far aways away, but coming up this week is the one on one Tournament. And that's going to tip off this Wednesday and wrap up on Saturday, February14 at Sephora arena down in Miami. So Sabrina, walk our listeners through how this tournament is going to work.
- [03:14]
Sabrina Merchant
Yeah, so it is a 32 player tournament. Four, I want to say regions, because that's how we talk about tournaments generally. But like four sections of eight players. You've got the bigs, you've got the wings, and you've got two groups of guards that are, as far as I can tell, basically loosely organized by height. So like tall guards versus shorter guards. If you were really interested in like the intra positional, you know, matchups or interpositional matchups. Last year, you know, like we had a center versus a guard. You're not going to get that until the semifinals. This year it's all strictly within the same position until you get to those final two rounds. So each game, two 11 ones and twos, shot clock of seven. If you don't get to 11, it lasts for 10 minutes, but hopefully these games go to 11 because 10 minutes is a very long time to not score 11 points.
- [03:58]
Zena Keda
Very long time.
- [03:59]
Sabrina Merchant
And then the final is the best of three, which each game going to seven.
- [04:03]
Zena Keda
Okay, so with that there, there are going to be some changes. One of the things that popped out last year during the one on one tournament to me was just like, whoa, this actually has nothing to do, at least in the first few rounds, with how adept you are at creating your own shot, getting past your defender. You know, if you've got a nice dribble, if you've got a nice handle. It really was all about one, what's your stamina like? Because it's a lot of work going back and forth, right? Players that weren't getting tired early was really important. Players that had some size found a lot of advantages. Looking at Aaliyah Edwards, looking at Derick Ahambi, looking at these taller players that were able to post up the smaller ones found a lot of advantages in those first rounds. And last but not least, who could get long rebounds and put up some good outside shots. This season is going to be a little bit different with the change of having the guards line up and the bigs line up first and all that. The interpositional is not going to happen until later as Sabrina just laid out. So guys, I gotta ask you, with this new changeup, there's a possibility that some of the faves get knocked out early by people within their own category. But who are we thinking might win it all?
- [05:21]
Chantelle Jennings
I personally, I'm really excited to see Marina Mabry play. She was not a part of the one on one tournament last season, but obviously we saw her break the unrivaled scoring record in Philly a week ago, two weeks ago. I think that sort of speaks to her competitive nature. Showing up in the biggest moment in front of 17,000 people scoring 47 points. I sort of feel like that momentum maybe plays through into this one on one tournament. Obviously there's money on the line, bright lights, bragging rights, all of that, that I feel like Marina can just sort of lean into and let her competitive nature take over. I'm sure we'll have some crash out updates throughout, but yeah, I, I, I, I think I'm, I think I'm going with Marina on this one.
- [06:07]
Zena Keda
I like that. And I was going to go with Marina and I, I'm only going to choose my second option because I don't want to just choose another Marina. But I like Marina as a choice mainly because of what I said last time we talked about her 47 point performance. She Big Mama's. People like her size in itself. She has a capability, of course, of creating her own shot and getting to the basket and being able to pull up. But because she is a bigger guard, she can go up against the bigs just as well and body up on the guards, the small guards. So that's why I feel like she has a little bit of an advantage. But I'm gonna go a different route. I'm actually gonna go with someone that I also think bullies, folks, has the ability to battle with the bigs, doesn't quite have the outside shot, but I think will find a way to the basket a lot easier. And that's gonna be for me, Alyssa Thomas. And I just feel like she's just going to roll through, folks. And I know this is, this is not who people are looking at. I know some folks have looked at some guards with the handle, et cetera, but I just think, you know, Alyssa's gonna bully her and find a way to get some rebounds and go back up. What about you, Sabrina? Close us out.
- [07:11]
Chantelle Jennings
Yeah.
- [07:12]
Sabrina Merchant
I think the positional thing is really interesting because the Final Four last year were Azari Stevens, Aaliyah Edwards, Nafisa Collier and ar. So three bigs, which is impossible this year. Right? You can have at most one, um, and I actually think that big bracket is the toughest one. Like all of those matchups, I'm like, damn, like, that's gonna be hard. That's gonna be hard.
- [07:28]
Zena Keda
Right, right, right, right.
- [07:31]
Sabrina Merchant
I actually went with a different Notre Dame player. I went with Jackie Young, not Marina Mabry. I'm a little confused why she's in the big guard and not the wing one. But that's, uh. I think, I think pod B is actually like secretly the hardest pod here with Paige and Ari Gay and Chelsea Gray and Tip Hayes and Sykes, who has just been tremendous this unrivaled season. But like you were saying, I kind of like the idea of a bigger guard who can, you know, mash on the smaller guards, but also has a shot, can like do good things against bigger players. Isn't going to get, you know, she's strong enough to go up against bigs. Like when Jackie Young like puts her arm into you, like you. You feel it, you know. So yeah, I think, I think I'm gonna go Jackie Young this time.
- [08:11]
Zena Keda
Okay. I like it. I like it. I'll tell you, when they announced it on the screen, pot A, I was like, ooh, you know, that's tough. That's tough. Pod B came up. I was like, damn, who was coming out? Like, that is hard. But I don't know, like, pot C is pretty hard too. So I don't know. Either way, it's gonna be fun. I like the one on one tournament. You do get to see the individual competitiveness of all these players and yeah, you know, another little fun wrinkle to unrival that they always like to bring up. So looking forward to that. Y' all let us know who you guys think will be able to take it all. All right, guys, it is time for the Sabrina scale. It's back. I feel like I do a different rendition of that.
- [08:50]
Chantelle Jennings
That was a really nice. I also like that you said it.
- [08:54]
Sabrina Merchant
Back every week as if it's been a very long time when it's been said based.
- [08:58]
Zena Keda
It's been a long time.
- [08:58]
Chantelle Jennings
It's Monday again.
- [09:00]
Zena Keda
Exactly. It's been a long time for me. I love the Sabrina scale. It always puts me into perspective of like, what did I miss? What did I not see? You get a little bit of background on certain teams and then also how people, you know, slid up and down. And this is a perfect opening to the conversation we're gonna have today because somebody slid up in your rankings something serious. Okay. And it's a team that. Don't worry, guys, she didn't do it because she's a homer. Okay? She didn't do it cuz she went to Duke. But we gotta talk about Duke women's basketball. Let's run it back Thursday night, Duke ekes out a win over Louisville. 59, 58. This was a big win. Okay? Louisville, top team in the acc, top team in the country, team that can score the freaking ball. I think they're averaging, like, 81 points a game right now, kept to just 58 against that Duke defense. Uh, and, you know, they. They took a big leap because of that win, going from number 17 to number 11. You wrote last week that Duke's 3 and 6 start already feels like a distant memory. After 14 straight victories, they now have sole possession of first place in the ACC. I don't know if you remember our conversations early this season, Sabrina.
- [10:17]
Sabrina Merchant
We were.
- [10:17]
Zena Keda
We were looking at Duke like, ooh, this is looking suspect. When they dropped out of the top 10, then they dropped out of the top 25. We did not think they were coming back. So now what are your thoughts on this team as we head toward the tournament?
- [10:30]
Sabrina Merchant
I think Duke's rise in the standings is as much a function of duke winning now 15 games in a row. They just absolutely. Oh, yeah, clobbered SMU the other day as just some relative struggles of that grouping, you know, of, like, the. The teens in the polls. You got, like, teams like TCU and Kentucky who have really had some depth struggles and have lost recent games. You know, you've got Maryland going through their injuries. Michigan State had a couple recent losses, like Ole Miss has had a couple recent losses. It's just a matter of, like, no one can really string together three or four wins in that sec, Big Ten group. And then you look at a team like Duke where 15 wins in a row, like, at some point that has to get rewarded.
- [11:16]
Chantelle Jennings
And I think.
- [11:17]
Zena Keda
I think that's.
- [11:17]
Sabrina Merchant
That's part of it, right? It's. It's as much of. Okay, well, I can't put them behind all these other teams that have, like, just lost multiple times within the last two weeks, when. Yeah, before it was, yeah, they were winning, but who were they beating? But now, like, beating Louisville is as quality of a win, I think, as comes, other than, you know, beating that top four, that has sort of insulated itself against the rest of the teams in the country. But I was just very impressed. Right. Like, going into Louisville, using your defense on the road against a team, as you mentioned, that has scored very well, holding on even when things got a little nervy at the end of the game. Right. Just some good execution by Taina Mayer and Ashlyn Jackson. Yeah, I was just very impressed with their defensive effort. They scored just enough, which is always the case with Duke, right? Always scoring. Just. Just enough to be.
- [12:03]
Zena Keda
Not too much. Not too much.
- [12:04]
Sabrina Merchant
A 69, 68 game would have been.
- [12:05]
Chantelle Jennings
Far more enjoyable to watch.
- [12:07]
Zena Keda
Right? Yeah. You had to remind me of that Duke, Carolina game last year. I mean, they barely being able. I don't know what the final score of that game was, but it was five to four.
- [12:19]
Chantelle Jennings
It was five to four.
- [12:21]
Zena Keda
You know what makes me think four corners, I think is what I. Yeah, right, right, right. This actually makes me think of every time I. We talk about, you know, teams moving up and down the rankings. I love this concept of like. Well, it wasn't so much as they were phenomenal as, like, other people around them weren't so great. It makes me think of, like, being at the grocery store and you're in line and the people around you, like, forgot something. And so you're just like, in this really long line and you're like, oh, this sucks. You got your stuff, you did what you were supposed to do, you got your bag full of groceries, et cetera. Then the person in front of you forgot diapers, so they have to, oh, sorry, you can go ahead in front of me. And you're like, oh, okay. And then you just move. And then someone's like, oh, I forgot olive oil. Oh, you could just skip ahead of me. It's cool. I'm like, oh, all right. And then all of a sudden, the long line is not that long and you're in front of the line. You're like, wow, if I. I just did what I needed to do. Everyone else forgot to do what they were supposed to do, and I got to skip ahead. And there you go, Duke, you got your groceries, you got em in line. 15 straight wins and they've gotten to the top of the line. But the question is, do you trust them when they start ringing stuff up and it's time to check out? Sabrina, do you trust them in a late game situation after they close that game out the way they did against Louisville?
- [13:33]
Sabrina Merchant
I mean, I trust them against, like, the teams ranked 7 and below in the country. Do I trust them to make this happen against the teams that just absolutely kick their butts to start the year? No, I don't think they closed the gap with the likes of South Carolina, Texas, ucla. I'm sorry, South Carolina, lsu and UCLA are the teams they lost to to start the season. Now, I don't believe that that has meaningfully changed. Still don't think they can quite score with those. But the thing with a team like Duke is they Will make the game slower. They will make the game ugly. They will make it so the margins are lower than you would like. So there's just always a chance that Riley Nelson hits a couple of threes, Ashlyn Jackson hits a couple of threes. They make you more uncomfortable than you were hoping for going into the game. Like, we saw this against South Carolina in the Elite Eight last year, right? I think the margin between South Carolina and Duke was not that of one possession. I think it was much more than that. But the way Duke plays, they were able to get the game that close. And so, you know, they're gonna. They're gonna be in games. I think. I think their defense has really taken a step forward from where it was at the start of the season. That, to me, was the most shocking thing at the start of the year was they couldn't defend worth a lick, right? And, like, that's the surprising thing about the Blue Devils. You trust a Carol Lawson team to be able to defend offense be damned, seriously damned. But now they've sort of figured out the balance again, and it's just. It's more within their wheelhouse, and I think they're more comfortable with this identity and they can keep themselves in games. Even if I still don't think they're like a Final Four threat.
- [14:53]
Zena Keda
I love it.
- [14:54]
Chantelle Jennings
I'll just be honest, because it's like, I. I read your rankings every Monday morning, and again, we've talked about. I actually think that analogy of the grocery shopping was perfect. I was like, where are we going with this? I'm so interested. Then you realize I spent too much.
- [15:07]
Sabrina Merchant
Time at self checkout.
- [15:09]
Chantelle Jennings
True, it was a long walk, but it was worth it. But I just, like, again, Carol Lawson's defense, always going to be stout, except at the beginning of this season. But by the time we get to February, March, it's going to be really. And I agree, what they did against Louisville, very impressive. I mean, Louisville put up 66 on UConn earlier this season. Like, this is. This is a really impressive defensive performance. I just look at these wins that they've had, and yes, you can only play who's on your. Who's on your schedule, who's in front of you. Fifteen straight wins, very impressive. But outside of Louisville, like, you're going back kind of far and you're like, I mean, way to beat Pitt. I just, you know, I think it's.
- [15:56]
Zena Keda
It's no shade to our pit listeners.
- [15:58]
Sabrina Merchant
All the shade. Okay? All the shade. They lost to a D3 team. It happened this year. Okay, yeah, that's real.
- [16:04]
Chantelle Jennings
This is. Yeah, I just.
- [16:05]
Zena Keda
Real.
- [16:06]
Chantelle Jennings
I just don't. You know, I agree with you, Sabrina, that it's sort of like outside of the top seven. And I think you had said this before we started recording that it's like, how many top 10 teams are there in the country? The AP poll says there are 10, but maybe this is a debate.
- [16:21]
Sabrina Merchant
They have to be 10. Math.
- [16:22]
Chantelle Jennings
Mathematically, there have to be 10, but I think philosophically there's like seven. And I think that's kind of the struggle this year is that you have sort of UConn at the top, you have that next tier, and then there's a pretty big drop off. So I think, you know, what that means exactly is that we'll probably have some Sweet 16 games this year that are still really ugly and everyone's going to talk about parody and, oh, it doesn't exist anymore or whatever. But I think, you know, that that top seven, top eight grouping is something special. And then, and then there's a lot of question marks.
- [16:54]
Zena Keda
Well, I'm very happy that you brought up a few things. Um, one, Sabrina, that you brought up. Duke is good for clogging stuff up. Like, I, I know when I think about their game and watch their games, they are the definition of what coaches say of like, muck up the game, right? You're not going to quite just, you know, blow past teams, but you're going to muck it up so they have to play to your level. That is what Duke is really good for. And Shantel, I'm really happy that you brought up, um, who are they really playing? Who are they really winning against? Because it immediately makes me think of the LSU streak early this year, right? They had beaten all these teams and they had won and like, gone off and then they had two straight losses versus Texas, versus Vanderbilt. And you're like, hmm, excuse me. They had two straight losses against Kentucky and then Vanderbilt and then went on to beat Texas. And you're like, hold on now, maybe there's something to getting these wins and stacking these wins and building the confidence of this team. And I think after that start, Carol Lawson is happy to see this. For her team to be able to build that confidence and get those, those reps of you guys can win against a solid team. And to me, it's not quite the same level as that LSU win to Texas, but I, I would see it as an, like, an equivalent of you are.
- [18:15]
Sabrina Merchant
It's the ACC version of what that was.
- [18:17]
Zena Keda
It's the ACC version of that win. Thank you, Sabrina. That's how I look at it, is like, yes, you got these wins and you're beating these teams that aren't necessarily very competitive. But Louisville was a great test to, if you can actually pull it out. So I got to give them that credit. On the topic of lsu, let's keep it moving. You have Texas, Sabrina. They went up against LSU and they. They got the win. 77, 64 at home. They extended their win streak to 39 at home. Woo. That's. That's a big number. Now, Texas didn't move in your rankings, but they remained at number four. So with Texas being able to get this win, get their lick back against lsu, what does this mean for Texas and their outlook on the future?
- [19:05]
Chantelle Jennings
I mean, I think no surprise here. I'm going to start with a Minnesota connection for a game between Texas and lsu. Why not? Um, any chance I. I can bring Minnesota into this conversation? I will. This one is Aaliyah Crump, Minnetonka Minnesota native. I think this for me was a really big game for her. We have. She missed a lot of the season with a foot injury. She's now been back four games. But to sort of have this performance. 16 points, five rebounds, one steal against LSU. She hit the most field goals of any player in a Texas uniform. Like, this is. This is. Adds to their depth. It adds to what they're doing. I think it adds to their rotation. Having her come off the bench, like what that does for Texas, sort of having another weapon in the arsenal, someone who can hit threes, which, you know, obviously not exactly.
- [19:53]
Zena Keda
Yes, right.
- [19:54]
Chantelle Jennings
It's. It's not what Vic Schaefer's like, trying to do necessarily, but opponents need to respect that part of her game. And so I think it opens up the floor a bit for the bigs for Madison Booker if she's driving for Rory, if she's getting inside Kyla Oldacre, like, it just opens things up for them in a way that I think is really important. And at this point in the season, she theoretically could have redshirted this year, but she came back for a reason. And I think games like this prove both why she came back because she can play at this level. She can step in and be an instant impact player, but also coming back to be a part of this team and having the opportunity to do something special this postseason. I think I was speaking with someone from Texas this morning about Rory Harmon. I just don't think we're appreciating the season enough it sort of feels like we've been like a nerd to. I think that's the right word here. Like, how good she is. Like, we just expect it from her. Like, we expect these high assist, low turnover games. But what she's doing this season, averaging more than six assists, fewer than two turnovers, is historic. Like, she is in a class of her own right now. And I think having one more weapon around her makes Texas just that much more dangerous going into March.
- [21:09]
Sabrina Merchant
I mean, we have to talk about Rory Harmon's defense too, because they basically had her on Mikayla Williams for long stretches of that game. And there's a significant size difference between Mikayla Williams, who, like, often was playing like the 3 and the 4 for LSU over the last couple seasons, and Rory Harmon. And I think Mikayla Williams through the first three quarters had one made field goal when Rory was guarding her compared to just owning whoever else was put in front of her. And you know, you look forward with Texas, like, can she do that against an AZ fud, right? Can she do that? Like, we've already seen her do very well against like the likes of Raven and Tessa Johnson for South Carolina, how disruptive she was for the UCLA ball handlers, even veterans like Kiki Rice and Charlie Such a Walker. So just that defensive point of attack, you know, like someone like Rory Harmon who can defend what, 1, 2, 3, 4, probably. I mean, she could defend fives, I'm sure. I just don't know that we really need to see it yet, but I think we need to see it. That is so interesting to me going forward is like, how do you adjust your offensive matchups against Texas when they have wing defenders like Madison Booker and Aaliyah Crump, I thought did great on Flagee Johnson in that game against lsu. But then they also have Rory Harmon, who can be that point of attack defender, but can toggle between all these different positions. I was just so impressed by the effort that she had on the other end of the floor against lsu. And that to me is, I think part of the reason why we statistically underwrite Rory is because, yeah, the counting stats for her points and stuff are not going to jump out at you because she's doing a lot of her work where it's not necessarily, you know, popping up on the box score.
- [22:40]
Zena Keda
Yeah, I can't. The amount of games that you'll see Rory Harmon go into the press box afterwards and immediately look at her assist to turnover ratio and like get excited when she has nine assists, zero turnovers, right? Like, she relishes that opportunity. And I think that that's the case for her as well on defense and just being able to have those challenges. And also, you know, you called this out as well, Sabrina, but Aaliyah Crump is a bigger size as well, like in terms of guard and her being able to be on Flage Johnson is a massive, massive boost for them to have a freshman being able to, you know, take on that sort of an assignment defensively, which is cool. All right, well, up next, we're going to break down what's driving the UCLA Bruins success and why this season might be pivotal for them.
- [23:40]
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- [23:52]
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- [24:27]
Adam Grant
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- [25:11]
Zena Keda
All right, let's dive into UCLA and see why their wins and momentum make this the right time for the program. And in order to do that, we have to start with how this team built momentum to where they are now sitting at the top of the Big Ten. Remember, this is the Big Ten that they just joined last year. Okay? This is only their second year. They won the Big Ten tournament championship. They beat their crosstown rival, usc in the final. And it felt like, Sabrina, they had kind of created this super team. But how did this team actually come together?
- [25:51]
Sabrina Merchant
I like to call UCLA sort of like the captain planet of the PAC 12 all stars. You know, they've got like Lauren Betts from Stanford and Gianna Neepkins from Utah and Charlie Sledger Walker from Washington State, even Angela Dugalitz from Oregon, if you want to go that far back. But you know, ucla, they're at the end of this senior class run where they had the number one recruiting class in the country coming into 2022. That was Kiki Rice, Gabriella Hocket, London Jones, Christina Walla and Lena Sontag, who's no longer in college basketball. And like most big classes in college basketball these days, a lot of people went their separate ways, right? You've got London at usc, Walla's at Ole Miss, and it's just, you know, Rice and Hawkes, but they've brought in all of these other players who started their careers elsewhere. And you know, I used some colorful language when you described UCLA at the beginning of the season about how important I thought this particular year was for them. And that's cause again, their entire rotation is people who will not be on the team next year. Like we talked about how fickle everything is in the sport these days because you can transfer because of all of these opportunities that exist. With ucla, it's literally just because they don't have any more eligibility, right? Like, they've weirdly timed this roster so that everybody has to go at the end of this year. And it's created this really, I don't want to say pressure packed situation because on the one hand, like, you know, they all know that, like, hey, we're done here, we're going to be graduating, we're going to be finishing our seventh master degrees or whatever. If you're the likes of Ledger Walker and Tiana Napkins and you can't exactly look ahead to the point of like, oh, well, if we don't win a national title, like this season is a failure because we won a Final Four last year and we have to do better. But also, like, when are you ever going to get this opportunity again to have so much talent on one individual roster and, you know, to not come through I think would just be a massive letdown, you know, for all of the growth that this program has experienced over the last three years. Like, you know, that that freshman year with Kiki Rice and Gabriela Haquez, they make it to the PAC 12 tournament final. They're a sweet 16 team. Then a sweet 16 team the next year when they lose to LSU and the memorable throw the ball DeLorean game that we've talked about at nauseam on this Podcast. Then they win the Big Ten tournament and make it to the Final Four. And this year, I think they're probably going to win the Big Ten regular season, which I know is a goal of theirs last year, and they just kept losing to usc. So they're taking all these incremental step forward, and you think the next one would be win a national title. And yet the reason we're talking about UCLA in this space is because I don't think any of us consider them a favorite to win the national title. And that's what's so interesting about this team, is that they have this immense amount of pressure on this particular year, and they're going to have so many players go onto the WNBA and probably be successful at that level. But what can they actually show for it in this final year in college?
- [28:36]
Zena Keda
It's so true that there seems to be this, like, target on their back that. That no one's really looking at. It's like every team look at it.
- [28:46]
Sabrina Merchant
In the Big Ten, I'll tell you that.
- [28:47]
Zena Keda
Right in the Big Ten, for sure, everyone's knowing that this is a team to take down, but not in the same way that they look at UConn as this, like, undeniable powerhouse that could win it all. It's just that they're an undeniable powerhouse that you're going to play throughout the season at one point, if you have them on the schedule. And that is a very interesting distinction thinking about ucla. So. So it does seem like after we saw last year, UCLA winning their games by crazy margins, like 20, 30 points on average. It was crazy. Similar stuff is happening. Not this most recent Michigan game. That was a lot of fun, but we'll get into that. But they've been. They've been beating teams again this year. They've been doing a really great job of showing that cohesion out on the floor. So, Chantel, why do we think that this year might be the year that things change for UCLA in terms of making a big push?
- [29:48]
Chantelle Jennings
I mean, it's like the urgency of it. Like, this is the last chance for them. This is the last dance for them. This is it. I think back to Gabriela Haquez and Kiki Rice's freshman year when they played South Carolina twice, once in the NCAA tournament, but once during the regular season. Corey Close understood what she was doing with sort of that class. And obviously some of those players left and they absorbed players from other Pac12 teams. And honestly, it feels like Lauren Betts has been there so long that I almost Forget that she was at Stanford. And Angela Dugalic, same thing. You almost forget that she was at Oregon for a season. It sort of feels like they all came in together. And maybe because RIP PAC 12, I just think of that as such a wonderful group of people. But, like, when they went and played in that game, I remember Don Staley said something in the post game about, like, they're going to be really, really good. And thinking of sort of, you build a program in a lot of different ways, but sort of scheduling those games where you can be aggressive in scheduling where you can, you know, measure yourself up against other teams. Like, obviously, last season, they, what, lost to the UConn by 34 points in the Final Four. Like, quite the measuring stick. But it's like they've been doing this for years. Like, they've been putting themselves up against the best to try and to a place where they could be the best. They got to the Final Four last year, the first time in NCAA history. Obviously, they did before the NCAA existed and had women's basketball in it. But, like, this just feels like the one chance. And I will say that the group that they can put on the floor now because of the addition of Gianna Neepkins, I think, specifically, and what she brings to that team, I think they're a better matchup for UConn this year than they were a season ago, I think, specifically, and not just because Gianna Neepkins is from Minnesota. You know, I think how she spaces the floor, I think her length, she's a big guard. Like, what she does for them is really, really important. And so I think, you know, it just. It's the fact that they lost to UConn in the final Four last year is just such an obvious, Obvious, like, plot point where it's like, yes, but. And then you also have to couch that with, you know, I think UConn actually might be better than they were a season ago. And so. So there's that.
- [32:04]
Zena Keda
There is that. There is that. And to your point about the urgency, it feels like because we're in this space and we care about women's basketball. Shout out to all the people listening that are in that same space. We all understand the urgency of it, but the rest of the world, of the sports world that just is generally looking at women's basketball, I would not say, if I'm talking to the average person that kind of loosely pays attention to women's basketball and say, yeah, ucla, they, you know, they. They've got a target on their back and they've Got this time ticking. I don't think anyone else really knows that in the same way. And I think that there's something to be said, too, and I'm very curious what you guys think about this. There's a little bit of one. That same PAC12 shadow that I think the. The PAC12 was in for years in comparison to SEC and UConn in general. I feel like UCLA is still a little bit under that shadow from a national perspective. They don't had that same, like, conversation. Like, conversational point of UCLA is massive. Like, they're so important, et cetera. There's. Even now that they're in the Big Ten, it's.
- [33:13]
Chantelle Jennings
They.
- [33:13]
Zena Keda
There's still a little bit of that west coast bias against them, a little bit than the traditional powers. There's also this factor of. In the same city, right? USC is middling at best this year, of course, but we know that last year it was all about juju Watkins and usc, and there was a little bit of a shadow created. Even with UCLA being the powerhouse they were, there was a little bit of a shadow underneath usc. And then, Sabrina, thank you for calling out the throwlorn bets. The ball game there was. And the fact that they lost by 34 against UConn on the national stage. There's also this factor of, like, UCLA doesn't quite have the killer instinct that UConn has, right? People look maybe at. At not only UCLA, but like, particularly Corey Close as a coach and how she coaches her team. Like, there's still like a narrative to be built around who UCLA is and what they're doing. And I'm curious, like, Sabrina, you being in la, what are your thoughts on just how they show up on the national scale basketball put to the side of what they're. How they're viewed as a team?
- [34:24]
Sabrina Merchant
I think UCLA has navigated the NIL era just about as well as any women's basketball program in terms of what they've been able to do to pour resources into their women's basketball program, how they've been able to scour the portal and really find people who fit what they're looking for. Like, you know, we mentioned Gianna and Eepkins being such a massive value add, just that perimeter shot creator that they were lacking last year. I mean, I think about their Final Four team a year ago and like Tamia Gardner being a big part of that and Janiya Barker being a big part of that, and both of those were portal ads, you know, who helped stabilize the front court in a way that they needed to build that team, you know, that made it to the Final Four. And I, you know, I think about, you know, we're mentioning all this urgency for the Bruins. I don't necessarily think they're going to die out by any means. Like they're not going to be relevant nationally because I do think that they're going to be a big factor in the portal yet again. Like they've got for one a lot of minutes that you're going to be able to take for this particular roster. But just the, the advantages of playing in the Big Ten where I don't think that they are quite as hidden nationally as they were before because they are playing games at like, you know, 8 o' clock Eastern a lot in the middle of the week if they're in Michigan or Minnesota, like much more convenient TV windows for most of the viewing public. Right. You are playing in all of these really big games. They were in the players era championship. They do things like schedule South Carolina in Columbia, South Carolina and they had South Carolina come to their home. They had Tennessee come earlier this season. All these high profile games, all of these high profile TV windows, you're going to be competitive and just the value of being in Los Angeles and all of the opportunities that brings. I think this is a program that is going to be succeed because of, you know, the nil opportunities. And we've seen the same thing sort of with usc. They've done it in a different way where like they just get the number one recruit every year and sort of fill around her. But I don't, I don't necessarily think that like this is the last. We're talking about the Bruins. I really do believe that like this era of college basketball has favored this athletics program in a way that it just wasn't going to before. Right. Like we're talking about a UCLA team that hasn't won a conference regular season title this century. They've won two conference tournaments titles this century. Right. Like it's, it's funny to talk about them as this big national power when their results haven't spoken to it. Right.
- [36:33]
Zena Keda
Yeah. Yeah.
- [36:34]
Sabrina Merchant
So it's a very recent thing, you know, and they don't have the juju Watkins who immediately captivates an audience like and just brings viewers in or brings fans in. Like I think the atmosphere at games is still a little telling, you know, like people were showing up for USC earlier this year in a way that they weren't quite for ucla, even though UCLA came in as like a number three, number four team. In the country. So they're still sort of matching the perception. Right? Like, Corey Close talked about this a lot last year. Like, we can't be. Like, we have to believe that we can be, you know, one of the best teams in the country before we actually play like it. And now internally, they believe that, like, hey, we're just as good as anybody in the country. Internally, I think they believe that they're much better than they were against UConn last year. But you got to catch up to that, right? Like, everybody around the country still sees them as, like, oh, couldn't get the ball to Lauren Betts, couldn't score, like, points against Janelle Alfie. And it's. There's just a. You know, I think it's a natural evolution and. And frankly, we don't get to see that all the time in college sports because of all of the change. And even though UCLA has gone through a lot of roster turnover, there still has been so much consistency that they're kind of a unique story in this era where you have the cornerstones of Kiki Rice, Gabrielle Hawkes, Lauren Betts, who've been through this so much together. And that's what I think makes the program fun to root for.
- [37:47]
Chantelle Jennings
I think I have two points to add onto this, and the first is specific to what you were just saying about sort of how UCLA has risen during this NIL era. I think back to the summer before the 2324 season when Corey Close came out and was like, going to make sure, you know, our goal is to have each of our players make between 50 and 70,000 in nil. And I remember that was such. It felt like a really bold statement at the time. And you still have coaches that aren't talking publicly about the money that is in basketball. And Corey was really one of the first that got out there and was like, this is a part of the game. We talk about, like, you know, minutes publicly. Why aren't we going to talk about Nil? This is just a big factor in the game right now. And, you know, I think back to that and realize, like, wow, that was. For her to be kind of on the forefront of that. And calling it as it is made a lot of sense. And I think to this specific moment where Sienna Betts returns, the cupboard is not empty here necessarily, but they don't have a top 100 recruit in the 2026 class. I do think they're gonna go hard in the portal to find people and sort of change over and maybe not go after players who Only have one year of eligibility left, but continue to try and build around this. And the second point I wanted to say was I thought it was really cool to watch the Michigan UCLA game because like I said, it does sort of feel like Betts and Dougalich, like, started their careers at UCLA in my mind. Like, I, I, I know they didn't, but it just feels like they did to me. And so let's pretend they did for a moment. But, like, watching UCLA and Michigan on the same floor together kind of felt like a unicorn because it didn't, you know, there was so much sort of consistency from last season to this season in that game. And I feel like you turn on a game now in college basketball and you're like, oh, oh, these are four players that, there's four players on the floor that they're all at their, like, second or third or fourth school. You know, you can't really watch that many games where it feels like you've seen the same faces and Right. Obviously with Michigan, you just have that sophomore core. But because they were so prominent for the Wolverines last season, it feels like we've known Silas Ward and Olivia Olsen and Mila Holloway forever. Same thing with ucla that it kind of felt like this relic of, of, of, you know, days gone by of like, oh, this is, this is what it was like to watch college basketball 10 years ago, where you have these players that you sort of like, Lauren Bets is a UCLA player. Like, that is what she is. You know, when I think of, of Lauren, I think of ucla. That's not how I, I think of Olivia Miles. Like, yes, she's in a TCU jersey now, but I still think of her as a notor. Like, how are you going to remember their college careers? And so I almost think that sort of speaks to, it was just very cool to watch that game and see how Kim Benzarico and Corey Close have built these two programs. It'll be interesting to see what Corey does as she goes forward with, you know, because her entire freshman class left last year, basically. And Sabrina had pointed out to me that they've actually played every player UCLA has played, every player that departed into the portal this year. Kendall Dudley, who went to Michigan, ironically, was the, the last check mark for the Bruins, too.
- [40:51]
Sabrina Merchant
They should have one more next week, but it's coming. Oh, yeah. Against Indiana. Yeah.
- [40:55]
Cars.com Advertiser
Oh, right, right.
- [40:56]
Zena Keda
There you go. Okay. Yeah. This is interesting. I mean, even with what you're mentioning Chantel, them, I love this concept of them being a relic. It feels like we should, as a collective mind around women's basketball, be more bought into ucla because they've been these mainstays in terms of the faces that we've seen in the last few years. And yet I still feel like there's a shadow that they have to fight through. But it goes to what Sabrina said of what Corey Close mentioned about her team. We've gotta believe that we're there. We've gotta play like we're there. And I think they're playing like it. I think the rest of the country and the rest of the ecosystem has to catch up to what they're doing. And let's talk a little bit about what they're doing. You mentioned that Michigan game against ucla, and you know, UCLA able to eke out a win, 69, 66. And you're looking at this, you're looking at this, this win. They're retaining the top position in the Big Ten. So you look at this game and you look at it as. I looked at it as the, at least as a marker in their season. They weren't able to shoot well from three in this game, which we know that they're capable of, but they weren't able to shoot well from three. They were able to get a lot out of their starting lineup, which is basically what they've had to do all season long. They only play about seven to eight players and they're able to beat a team in Michigan that was trying to run them down, played more players, more bodies. Michigan tried to keep the ball up from inside the arc and UCLA kept the ball movement going. They only had 13 assists, but I don't know they were able to get a team win out over a Michigan defense. That made it really, really difficult for them to be able to get this win. What do we say about the way that UCLA has been playing recently and what does this win against Michigan mean for their season?
- [42:56]
Sabrina Merchant
Well, you talked about their margin of victory, right? I think it was about 19 points per game last season and they're up to 29 points per game this season. So it's been a very dominating run for ucla. This was the first time that they'd won a Big Ten game in single digits since, you know, Ohio State earlier in their conference calendar, another game that was also on the road. So they're absolutely obliterating teams at home and then doing what they need to do on the road against good opponents. Right. Michigan, Ohio state, both top 10 teams. And I think that three point margin sort of obscures how UCLA was in control at the end of it, like nutty things happen in that final minute, which, you know, you can never turn off a Michigan game with one minute to go is what I'm learning. Things always happen in the final minute. You know, they just, just. Everything has been really very structured, right?
- [43:38]
Chantelle Jennings
Like they.
- [43:39]
Sabrina Merchant
They get the ball into Lauren, they have her seal, she sets high screens. Their guards are good at getting downhill off of those screens. They always hit Gianna Napkins for one of those baseline out of bounds for a corner, three pointer. Get one of those every game. I don't know how teams consistently let this happen. Like, just stay glued to her. She's the one dead eye shooter on this team. They, you know, just arguably like the most efficient scoring offense in the country. They don't foul very much. Maybe you'd want them to get up like a few more threes, especially because I think like Hawkes, Rice, Ledger Walker are good enough shooters to where you could, you know, sustain more of a volume, but that's just not super important to them. They rebound the ball very well. I mean, everything that you would want out of a team. And then they obviously have this like 6, 7 rim protector who just makes things very difficult for teams who are trying to get in the lane. Like, Michigan was taking a lot of floaters because they couldn't really just get all the way to the basket, right? And every shot that they took pretty much at the rim, it was a little off balance. A little like, silo, what are we doing here? So I think they just have all the pieces you'd want, even if it is just seven of them, where even if one person has an off night. Like, you can handle John and Eepkins being off because that just means Kiki Rice scores more. And you can handle, you know, Laura not having a high scoring night because Angel Dugalich can do more of that. And you can even bring Sienna Betts in. So, like, they just have all of these options everywhere. Like, even two point guards. Like, how many teams have two senior point guards who can just run the offense when you need to? So I think they're just very smartly constructed. And like, obviously they were hoping to have Tamia Gardner this year. She's out with a red shirt. But they have just duplication at every significant role and that makes them very difficult to contend with because you can't hope that like 7 of their people are going to have an off night when you play them.
- [45:17]
Chantelle Jennings
Sabrina, I feel like the point you just mentioned is one we haven't talked about enough. Like the Fact that they have both Kiki Rice and Charlie Sledger Walker. Charlie Sledger Walker was a starting point guard at Washington State, like, starting her freshman year. Three games into the season, I was talking to Pac 12 coaches and they're like, oh, my gosh, you have to see this point guard from New Zealand. She's crazy good. She's played pro basketball since she was like, eight, which that might be a little bit of an exaggeration.
- [45:41]
Zena Keda
Not that much.
- [45:42]
Chantelle Jennings
It's not that much. She snuck into a game at some point with her mom, who also played professionally after having multiple kids. However, I digress. Just the fact that you have those. You know, we talk so much on this podcast about, like, what do you want in March? You want experienced veteran, calm guard play? And that is like, to a T, Kiki Rice and Charlie Sledger Walker. And you have two of those. Like, what a wonderful thing for Corey Close to have as she looks at her bench where it's like, you know, if to be able to move either of them off ball, to have either of them, you know, at the point of attack, like, it just really makes. You know, earlier in the podcast, I said that Neepkins really feels like she elevates this team. And they're so different from last season. I feel the exact same way about Charlie Sledger Walker. Like, to have a second point guard who is not a backup, like, and it's like not even 1A, 1B. It's like 1A, 1A. Like, they truly do have just such a bevy of talent at that position that it's like, how do you contend with that? And I think you're right in terms of the balance. But we shouldn't overlook having two starting point guards on the same roster. That it's just, you know, that is such an advantage for the Bruins and.
- [46:52]
Zena Keda
The fact that you also have a playmaking big in Lauren Betts. I mean, I mean, five.
- [46:57]
Chantelle Jennings
They have everything, right? Like, they truly have everything.
- [46:59]
Zena Keda
Yeah.
- [47:00]
Chantelle Jennings
It's just that, you know, they would have Yukon.
- [47:03]
Sabrina Merchant
Yeah.
- [47:03]
Chantelle Jennings
To get through to the title.
- [47:05]
Zena Keda
Well, do they have depth, though?
- [47:08]
Sabrina Merchant
Seven rotation players is enough. Yeah.
- [47:11]
Zena Keda
Okay. Okay.
- [47:12]
Chantelle Jennings
And I. And I think with them, their depth is different, though, because it's like, like Sabrina said multiple times, like any. Like, there's so many players that can go off for 25 points. Like, you look through their. Their schedule and it's like the leading scorer sort of changes hands every night and it'. You're not ever surprised to see a different name there. Whether it's Bets Whether it's do glitch, whether it's, you know, like Ledger Walker could go, like any of them can go off. I love Gabriella Hawkes this game. Like, all of these players can just have a huge night. And that's where I think their depth is different than other teams. It's not like they're bringing players off the bench to give other people a blow. And like, you know, I'm going to get one point or two points while you're on the bench, and then you can come back in. For me, it truly is like a rotational thing where it's like everyone just gets there.
- [48:00]
Zena Keda
Okay, I'm with it. I'm looking at or thinking about some of the teams that they're competing with in terms of that national spotlight. And we've seen what Texas has dealt with injuries and South Carolina's dealt with injuries. UConn not as much this season, but we know that historically, even the group that's right now at UConn has dealt with injuries in the past. And how much that can impact one where you're seated going into a tournament, because it impacts the games that you win throughout the regular season. But then, of course, what do you have available to you when the tournament time comes? And so it is really nice when a coach can lock in on seven players at any level and know that you're going to have a bevy of talent, a bevy of skills, a bevy of scoring and defense and all the things above, like, all the above to put out on the floor. But I, I, I'm very curious as to what all of this is gonna turn out like, because that game last year was shocking. I mean, that loss against UConn had us all like, wait, what happened? What's going on? This is not the team we expect when you think about the players that they've added this season. Um, and I, I almost look at Charlize Ledger Walker as an addition just because she was so she was injured previously, but also, you know, John and Eekins as well. What's going to be the difference maker in making them potentially have more of, of an impact on not only in the Big Ten? We, I feel like they, they're already making that, that change of, not even a change. They won the regular season last year. So what's going to be the difference of them in the tournament when it matters?
- [49:45]
Chantelle Jennings
Again, I think what Neepkins does for them on the floor, just spacing and to have, you know, she's having the best shooting shooting season of her career, like that just her length, you know, sort of. London Jones was one of their three point specialists last year. She's gone now and they've upgraded to Neepkins. Like, she's just such a fantastic three point shooter. She also has the length and the size and the height and the physicality that Jones did not. And it wasn't a one for one by any means. But I think what she does on the floor, how she creates space for them, having the two point guards, and again, I think it's like, let's never discount the advantage. That is a sense of urgency. And I think when you look at this team, because they've been together at the core of them for what feels like forever, it just, you know, I don't think it'll get to them. I was kind of surprised by some of the weird mistakes that happened in the end of that Michigan game. Like Gabriela Haquez missing two free throws in a row, like that doesn't happen. Kiki Rice stepping out of bounds in the backcourt, like that doesn't happen. But I also think that it's like those things only happen for the really good teams once in a season. So maybe it's out of their system now in a way. And I guess I had one quick question for both of you, because as we're talking about this, one of the things I'm thinking about is sort of how much we think about UCLA based on the way that they've ended their season. Like, how many times have we brought up that LSU game, right? And we think about the way that their last three seasons have ended, being blown out by UConn not getting the ball to Lauren against LSU and then sort of as a footnote, a loss to a team that a South Carolina team that everyone just assumed was going to win the national title that year. How much does that sort of paint the way that we look at the program because of how their seasons ended? And how does that change what we think about the trajectory of this program when it's sort of like growth, growth, growth. Ugh. Disappointing end. Growth, growth, growth. Yeah, tough break.
- [51:41]
Zena Keda
No, it's a great question and it leans into what I was, you know, asking both you and Sabrina earlier about. Why do they feel like they're still under some sort of a shadow? And I think it's because regular season, they dominate, they decimate teams. But when you get to the national scale and you get to that national stage where everyone is looking and all the lights are on you and it matters. UCLA has not had the quote, unquote killer instinct. They have not had that same level of decimation that they have during the regular season against opponents during the tournament. And so I think this is, this is the year for them to. Not only the urgency of this team and particularly because these players, the core of them are going to go to the league hopefully very soon. It's because they have one last chance to prove, no, we were good this whole time. We did. We were actually really, really competitive and we were capable of beating the big time teams when it mattered, not just during the regular season. So I think there's a little bit of that for sure.
- [52:39]
Sabrina Merchant
I mean, just to add onto that, like you mentioned the first season of this Kiki Rice Hawkeyes run. They. They lose in the Pac12 championship that year to a lower seeded Washington State team like another not showing up for.
- [52:49]
Chantelle Jennings
The big game, Charlie Sledger Walker, the Shania Twain season.
- [52:53]
Sabrina Merchant
And like last season, oh my gosh, yes, they lose to USC twice during the regular season, including once on their home court when it was, you know, deciding the Big ten title. So I, you know, you mentioned the Big Ten tournament and they, them beating USC and winning the Big Ten tournament. That was like the only example over the last three years of them coming into a big game. All, all eyes on them, like, this is our chance to prove and they won a championship. And you know, you wonder if, like, if is that something that they can lean on and like continue to build off of or was that a one off and not exact. And like they're more like the team that lost to Washington state, lost to LSU, you know, lost to UConn in that dramatic fashion.
- [53:32]
Zena Keda
1,000%. 1,000%. Okay, before we go and close this conversation out, there's one more thing I want to just notice. There is a, there's something interesting about this class and particularly UCLA when it comes to their next step. And that is hopefully for a lot of these players, the wnba. And the funny thing is I cannot think of an example on the women's side, but I can absolutely think of an example on the men's side. 2009 Kentucky men's basketball recruiting class. John Wall, DeMarcus Cousins, Eric Bledsoe. This was a massive, massive dub. I was gonna say w NBA class, but they weren't necessarily the best college team. They didn't go and, you know, win the tournament that year, but they were competitive throughout the season. And I feel like the same way that everyone knew that that class was gonna be phenomenal in the NBA. Why do I keep saying wnba that they were gonna be phenomenal in the NBA. This is how I feel. Like we're kind of talking about ucla, like they're better than that Kentucky team was, don't get me wrong. But it's kind of weird. Like they're not UConn, but we're talking about their players coming out of the, coming out of college, going into the WNBA as potentially being that level of a class. Like they're going to be stars in the W. Why is that?
- [55:05]
Sabrina Merchant
They kind of remind me of a different Kentucky team. Actually. The 2015 Kentucky draft class. Like Cat with Devin, Booker Davis. No, no, that was 2012. Yeah. A lot of Kentucky draft prospects here.
- [55:21]
Zena Keda
I guess this is the point. This is the point, right? There's a lot of men's college teams that can be okay. They don't go win the national championship. They're good in their respective conferences. But it's more likely that you saw a super packed go to a school, say they're gonna get their one and done year, you know, finished and then they go and they kill it in the pros. This isn't what happened with ucla. They haven't won something of significance just yet. Yet. We are talking about this class like they're gonna be wonderful WNBA prospects.
- [55:53]
Sabrina Merchant
Yeah. I think the interesting comparison would be like to the 2019 draft with Notre Dame when they had five players from that team make it to the WNBA. And that was seven years ago and they are all still in the WNBA and productive players, Taga, Marina Mabry, Arike Agumbawale, Jackie Young, Brianna Turner and Jess Shepard. And you talk about a group like that out of Notre Dame, they were like one free throw away from being back to back national champions and they won one and then they were in the final the next year. Like that's usually the type of team that results in this kind of WNBA output. And yes, we're a little early to be talking about the WNBA output of Betts, Rice, Neepkins, Ledger, Walker, Hawkes. But I wouldn't be surprised if all five of these players are first rounders. And that would be a first in WNBA history. And yeah, the draft is longer. There's more teams in the first round. But like I think even Angela Duglit is going to be a top 20 draft pick. And that means you've got six players who are all probably going to be on a WNBA roster next year. And that usually means that you come from a ridiculous college team. Like in 2016 when UConn had the top three players in their draft because that UConn team won four national championships in a row. And that's not how we're talking about ucla. So it almost like begs the question of like, is this UCLA team more talented than they've actually put out on the floor? Is it just because, you know, a few of them came in this year and like they only have one chance to get it through? Is it maybe we're over rating their actual WNBA stock or like, I mean we talk about them as good players. I don't think any of them is going to be like an MVP in the wnba. Whereas like Sarah Strong probably going to be an wnba. So it's, it's just an interesting thing with UCLA where, yeah, I think they have a lot of talent, but like, doesn't matter if you don't have the A1 level talent that like, you know, Strong Beckers, Aaliyah Boston, Caitlin Clark type like, because I wonder how their legacies can be looked at as a great college team if they peak at a final Four, but they still have this long shelf life in the wnba. Something we can't really think about now because gotta see what their WNBA careers look like. But it is fascinating to me because I've been spending all this time on draft talk and everybody loves these UCLA players. So shouldn't they be the no brainer national title favorite with all this talent? Oh, well.
- [57:58]
Zena Keda
Oh, that is a very, it's a very interesting question and I think it's one that doesn't typically apply to women's basketball because we have the time to see these players develop and we also see how that development leads to championships, leads to big time dominance on the grandest stages. And if there's anything that we could predict, hopefully this is not the outcome. But that Kentucky team ended up losing to West Virginia. They were number one seed, which UCLA has been able to get, but they ended up losing in that Eastern regional final. So that's not what UCLA wants. We'll see what happens this season with ucla, but this is their time urgency, is there. Very curious what you all think. Definitely. Let us know if you think UCLA has done enough to demand the national spotlight and if this is the year that they're going to stand in that spotlight and be able to bask in all of it. All right, well, we're going to close this out. Got a quick little game of start, bench, cut. Don't go anywhere.
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Zena Keda
T mobile is in US cellular stores.
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Chantelle Jennings
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Zena Keda
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- [60:40]
Zena Keda
Alrighty. Sabrina Chantel we're going to do a nice fun little game of Start, Bench, Cut.
- [60:50]
Sabrina Merchant
I feel like we're stepping on the toes of the A Touch More podcast, but I'm here for it.
- [60:54]
Zena Keda
That's fair. That's fair. We want to. You know what, let's properly give credit to A Touch More. They do this often and they aren't the first to do this. So I don't know who the proper person we should give credit for the genesis of this. But we won't say what the original game is because this is a children's show. No, I'm joking. Okay, so start, bench, cut. We're gonna go with. Actually, you know what, we're gonna go with the people we chose for our unrivaled one on one tournament. Okay. First one up, you gotta start bench or cut. Alyssa Thomas, Marina Mabry or Jackie Young. And this is in any context whatsoever. Okay. Sabrina I'd probably start.
- [61:52]
Sabrina Merchant
Jackie bench at. And cut. Marina Ooh.
- [61:56]
Zena Keda
Okay. Okay. Shanti I don't feel good about.
- [62:00]
Chantelle Jennings
I don't feel good about any of this.
- [62:03]
Zena Keda
Of course it's gonna get easier. Don't worry, it'll get easy easier. Started off strong.
- [62:08]
Chantelle Jennings
You said you're gonna start Jackie Bench at cup. Marina. See, I hate going after you in basketball stuff because I'm Just like. Well, I like seed you the ground of being right. Oh, man.
- [62:25]
Sabrina Merchant
I'm gonna talk one. Yeah, yeah, that works.
- [62:29]
Zena Keda
That works.
- [62:30]
Chantelle Jennings
All right, I'm gonna start at. Okay, I'm gonna bench Marina and cut Chucky Young. I don't know.
- [62:38]
Zena Keda
Not WNBA champion.
- [62:44]
Chantelle Jennings
I don't like any of this. I don't like any of this.
- [62:46]
Zena Keda
Actually.
- [62:47]
Chantelle Jennings
I'll bring Jackie off the bench and I'll cut Marina.
- [62:50]
Zena Keda
Damn.
- [62:50]
Chantelle Jennings
I was trying to think whose energy I want coming off the bench.
- [62:53]
Sabrina Merchant
Marina's got good energy.
- [62:55]
Zena Keda
Marina's got great energy coming off the bench. This is gonna be a tough one. Okay, well, Marina sounds like you might get cut, sis. But that's all right. That's okay. We're still cheering for you for the unrivaled one on one bracket tournament. Okay, let's make it a lot easier. We're gonna move, remove names, remove people from the situation. Number two, start, bench, cut. When you are creating a team, star power, depth or chemistry.
- [63:24]
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- [63:25]
Zena Keda
Chantel, you're going first.
- [63:27]
Chantelle Jennings
I'm gonna start star power because this was literally like the thesis of our last conversation between UCLA and UConn. So I'm gonna start star power, bench depth. Because I think it's really hard to go through a season without injuries.
- [63:45]
Sabrina Merchant
It's very funny to say bench depth.
- [63:47]
Chantelle Jennings
Yeah, I'm gonna bench depth and chemistry. Just fake it. Fake it till you make it.
- [63:54]
Zena Keda
I love that.
- [63:56]
Sabrina Merchant
Sabrina, where are you gonna start? Star power. But I'm gonna bench chemistry and then cut depth.
- [64:01]
Zena Keda
Okay.
- [64:01]
Sabrina Merchant
I think you gotta get along. I really do.
- [64:03]
Zena Keda
I do too. I do feel like chemistry is important. Chantelle's gonna have people throwing balls at each other.
- [64:10]
Chantelle Jennings
Well, but there's gonna be a lot of them.
- [64:12]
Zena Keda
There's gonna be a lot of them.
- [64:14]
Chantelle Jennings
So it'll be fine. If any of them get hurt, you can still play. Play. It's fine.
- [64:17]
Zena Keda
Okay, start benching. Cutting big plays, long drives or clutch moments.
- [64:26]
Sabrina Merchant
So long drives is just football.
- [64:28]
Babbel Advertiser
Right?
- [64:29]
Zena Keda
So thinking about the super bowl that just finished up big plays, long drives or clutch moments. What do you think?
- [64:36]
Chantelle Jennings
Oh, this one's the easiest one for me so far.
- [64:38]
Zena Keda
Okay.
- [64:39]
Sabrina Merchant
Starting clutch.
- [64:40]
Chantelle Jennings
I'm starting clutch moments, benching big plays and cutting long drives. I covered college football for almost a decade. I get why those are impressive, but they can be so boring and you have so many reviews, and it's just like flags everywhere on the field. I don't need any long drives. Just like one 60 yard bomb kick past the cornerback and get to the end zone. That's your Big play and your clutch moment.
- [65:08]
Zena Keda
I love it. Okay, Sabrina.
- [65:09]
Sabrina Merchant
I'd probably start big play, bench, clutch moment, and then cut long drives. Just because big play's a little bit more. More versatile. ADS applies to the whole game, you know?
- [65:19]
Zena Keda
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Things that change the trajectory of the outcome. I like it. I'm with that. All right. Start, bench, cut, wings, pizza, nachos.
- [65:27]
Sabrina Merchant
Oh, my God.
- [65:30]
Zena Keda
Chantelle.
- [65:32]
Chantelle Jennings
I'm writing all of these down because my memory is so bad.
- [65:35]
Sabrina Merchant
I'm gonna start pizza, bench, nachos, and cut wings.
- [65:41]
Chantelle Jennings
I'm actually gonna do the same, except Sabrina and I had pizza during. What was that, the regionals last year? Yeah, that really long day of regionals. You and I both had, like, a $12 piece of pizza from the arena. I'm sorry to say anything terrible about the Spokane arena pizza, but it was that pizza I would cut. But if we're talking, like, good pizza, like a pizza Shoals in Portland, Oregon, start. I would start and bench that and then cut the rest.
- [66:10]
Zena Keda
Damn, I'm cutting nachos. You ain't never gonna know. Wings and pizza. They're coming for us. Okay. All right, y', all, we're closing this out. Let us know how we did with our version of start bench, cut. Again, we are giving full credit to a touch more. Don't want anybody saying that we're biting, folks. Uh, but, yeah, appreciate you guys playing along and indulging me in that. Um, and I did not realize how hard the high, high usage guard, stretch, big and versatile wing would be. But let us know in the comments what you guys would think. What would you guys? Start, bench, or comment cut? Did we play well in this game? And also, let us know if you think this is UCLA's moment. I'm very, very curious about that. But that is all we've got for you today. We will be back on Friday with some more women's hoops overall. Until then, do your job and subscribe. That. That's all I'm asking for, folks. Okay? We don't ask for a lot here. Just do one thing, and that is subscribe. Follow us. Actually, that's two things. And then do one more thing. Go tell your friends about us. Cause we're fun. We're. We're a fun Hank. Okay? And head on over to our partner, the Yahoo Sports Hub. There's more content on there. You know, sometimes you gotta read through and sift through the really great content. Okay? But. Sports.yahoo.com womens sports. On behalf of the athletic Chantelle Jennings Sabrina Merchant. I am Zena Keda thanking you for listening and we'll see you next time. No Off Season is hosted by Zena K with Chantelle Jennings, Sabrina Merchant and Ben Pickman. It's produced by Tanika Burrell. Our executive producer is Andrea B. Scott. Our theme music is by Marcus Bagala. Monica Compton is our video editor. Shannon Ryan is managing editor of Women's basketball at the Athletic. Jesse Burton is our head of audio, and Tim McMaster is director of Audio operations.
- [68:14]
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