← No Offseason: The Athletic Women's Basketball Show
No Offseason: The Athletic Women's Basketball Show
Why the Power Forward Dominates in the WNBA
00:53:50
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- [00:00]
Zena Kaida
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Ben Pickman
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Zena Kaida
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- [01:07]
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- [01:52]
Zena Kaida
Hello everyone and welcome to no Off Season presented by Amazon Business. I'm Zena Kaeda.
- [01:58]
Sabrina Merchant
I'm Sabrina Merchant.
- [01:59]
Ben Pickman
And I'm Ben Pickman.
- [02:01]
Zena Kaida
And today on the show we are digging into a question I've been wanting to ask for a long time. Is the era of the power forward as the most important player in the league starting to come to the end? I don't know. I don't know. Is there a threat to the power forward position? I don't know. We gotta talk about it. Plus, we got another game for you this time in Sabrina's game, which means it's probably gonna be really hard for me. But you gotta stay tuned to see how much I struggle. Before we get into that. First and foremost, Ben, Sabrina, how are your weekends?
- [02:37]
Sabrina Merchant
Well, luckily I'm not going through this insane heat wave that Ben is.
- [02:41]
Zena Kaida
I know there's a heat wave going around the country and I feel as if we, tucked up in Northern California are just like ignoring all of that like, there is no such thing as that, I guess, in Northern California.
- [02:54]
Sabrina Merchant
But, Ben, Southern you were.
- [02:55]
Zena Kaida
Oh, and Southern, I guess. Yeah, exactly. We're chilling over here. Other things are heating up in California. But, Ben, I know you. Were you on the road this weekend?
- [03:05]
Ben Pickman
Actually, I was not. I was finally home this weekend. But honestly, I think I would have been better served being on the road because I didn't wear enough sunscreen. I'm fully sunburned and I was unprepared for this heat wave. It's like 100 degrees in New York. And look, maybe like sitting in an airplane would have been some nice time out of the sun, which I did not have this weekend.
- [03:26]
Zena Kaida
Ben, it was good that you were at home. I know we were all probably watching games. There was a ton of games happening on at the same time. So wnba, hear me out. Give us a little bit of space, just a little bit of space to be able to watch some of these games. But I was really happy I was able to watch Asia Wilson against the Fever. That home court environment in Las Vegas was crazy. Everyone was cheering for. And Asia Wilson is back. She's back from concussion. She apologized to the fans saying that she had a terrible first half. And yeah, it all worked out because eventually they got the win against the Fever. Liberty, they don't have three of their starters. Ben, we're gonna have to get into that. Feebich is at Eurobasket. Sabrina Unescu has a crick in her neck. And jeanqual Jones is out for a month with an ankle injury. At least. Or at least for a month. And they fell to the Storm. And then the Valkyries, they continue their streak. I mean, my second half was kind of boring. Watching them go up against Connecticut sun, they beat them by more than 20 points. So I know, Ben, you were at home cooking in the heat, but what was the most defining moment of this weekend's games?
- [04:32]
Ben Pickman
I mean, for me, if we want to look at defining stretches, it is how the Las Vegas Aces close their game against the Indiana Fever over the weekend. They outscore Indiana 31 to 20 in the fourth quarter, end up winning that game by eight. And every game right now for the Aces just feels super, super important as this team really does look to figure themselves out in this kind of post back to back title era. I mean, we've seen some low points, some big, you know, blowout losses. We've seen them fight back against the Dallas Wings. Now I think they're kind of trying to figure themselves out and find some steadying. I don't know, presence amid like what has been kind of a topsy turvy season. And for me, for as great as Asia Wilson was, has been, she scores 24 points in their win over Indy. The player I wanted to spotlight is really Aaliyah Nye, who was their second round pick in this past year's draft. She was 13 overall and she has really emerged as the most important bench player and one of the five most important players of the Las Vegas Aces team. She has been their most used bench in terms of minutes over the last seven games. You know, in every one of those seven games she's played the most minutes. And what we have really seen of late too is the Aces are just much better with her on the floor than they are with Kia Stokes. And the big reason why I just provides them with a huge shooting boost. It starts there. I mean, she was a 42% three point shooter at Alabama last year. She is still a 42% three point shooter, I should say, on spot up attempts with the Aces this year. So the same in college and right now in the pros. Currently the aces, they're minus 0.7. When you have Kia Stokes and their other four kind of stars in the lineup. When you put Nye in for Stokes, they have a plus 20 net rating. You know, I think it kind of is as simple as that. And I provides them with a huge shooting boost, just catch and shoot ability. She's also a pretty active defender who, you know, is still learning and adjusting the W but you know, has proven she can defend on the pro level so far and they're just much better with her on the floor. And I would just look to see them run that lineup out more and more, especially in crunch times, which we now see Leoni playing, you know, fourth quarters late in the fourth quarter in a way that we didn't at the start of the season.
- [06:40]
Zena Kaida
I had an off the record conversation with a game announcer talking about Ali and I and just how good she is and particularly she's WNBA size, right? You want a bigger, a bigger frame, somebody that can go out there and battle with some of these, you know, these vets. But particularly she's also adjusted. Well, you just mentioned this. Like she comes in and she can be in a late game situation that's got a lot of high stakes around it or pressure around it and keep her poised, keep her composure. I love the fact that one, she played 27 minutes against that in that game against the Fever, plus 13, which I think was like the second highest behind Jewel Lloyd. And no turnovers. Like, that's huge. To be able to provide the shots that she's providing and be in the schemes and the mixes and not have any turnovers as a rookie, very big. Yeah, the aces won that game. 89, 81. It does feel like there's a, I don't know, microscope on them a little bit, but they're figuring it out. And right now, though, this is a perfect timing to be figuring it out, especially while everyone else is kind of going up and down with Eurobasket and they're trying to figure out their wrinkles. We'll see what happens with the Aces, but it is Tuesday, which means we gotta get some music for this. I don't know, we gotta get a sound. Cause I get a stinger. Just a little stinger. Okay. I love the alliteration, but it's not enough. We need another thing. We're going to talk to our producers about this. It's the Sabrina scale, y' all. Sabrina is here to tell us all the things that she noticed that ultimately weighed out her scale for the week. Go read it on the athletic. I know some of you guys see that as homework. It is called just engaging with content. So hopefully you guys also go read. But Sabrina, you made some big moves this week. Lots of sliding around. So let's get into it. There is a new team at the top. Tell me, why do you think the Lynx are number one for you?
- [08:30]
Sabrina Merchant
I mean, I was tempted to put the links at the top at the very start of the regular season, but I have a policy that I keep the defending champion there until further notice. And the Liberty have been awesome, but really it's a matter of health, you know, without Jonquil Jones, without Leo Fibich, the Liberty just don't have their size advantage. That makes them so distinct, I think, among WNBA teams. And you look at the links and other than this last game without Nafeesa Collier, they've been pretty whole for the majority of the regular season, at least until at least since Kayla McBride returned from her absence to start the year. So, you know, it's just. It's just a fuller team. And you look at what the Lynx were able to do even without Nafisa Collier in their last game. Kayla McBride putting up 15 fourth quarter points, just absolutely laying down the hammer against the Los Angeles Sparks in that fourth. It's a very impressive, like, not so much revenge tour because, like, it's more of an avenging, right, like from what they were denied last season. And I look at the links and they don't have Jessica Shepherd. They don't have a piece of Collier. On Saturday, they plug in Maria Klindikova as the starting center. She signed with the team less than two weeks before, spent training camp with the Los Angeles Sparks. Just goes in plus 25 casually during that game. Very solid, running the floor, pick and roll, playing defense. Had some nice blocks to do that. Like, the plug and play ability in this Lynx system is super impressive. I think they're just the most finely tuned machine in the wnba and so that's why they're the number one team at this point.
- [09:47]
Zena Kaida
Yeah, I get it. I watched that Sparks Lynx game and I was frustrated for quarter one through three. I was like, what is happening right now? I was frustrated with the links because I just felt like they weren't capitalizing on things. And yeah, you're right. In the fourth quarter, they turned it up. Maria Klandikova, if you don't know her, know her. She was on the boards, she was getting put back. She was doing a lot of work for the Lynx. But I love, love Cheryl Reeve leaning in Diamond Miller. If you watch that game back at the end of the third quarter, it was Diamond Miller that offered that spark. And it's been really cool to see her come back game from her injury as well. And so you're talking about health, but health leans into depth. Right. And you saw against the Sparks, yeah, the links are deep and they've got bodies, and it's really cool to see Sheryl Reeve also trust her new bodies, including Diamond Miller and Alyssa Pealey. And now Maria Kliadkova.
- [10:40]
Sabrina Merchant
And you mentioned, you know, being frustrated for the first three quarters. This is kind of what the Lynx do, right? They wear you down because of their movement, because of their depth. Maybe it looks even for the first three quarters, but that's just kind of like a rope, a dope. They know they have you exactly where they want you. They have the best fourth quarter net rating in the W by a very large margin. It's about plus 24 per 100 possessions. So they're just, they're just blitzing teams down the end. Like they can sort of lull you into false sense of security and then know that they have this thing wrapped up in the fourth quarter.
- [11:06]
Zena Kaida
Okay. You know, you're absolutely right. And I don't think I picked up on that until you just mentioned it. They are always in the game. They did this with Dallas. I was like, what? What's going on? Why. Why is this game so close? And then, boom, fourth Quarter. Blow it open. I noticed fever slid down a little bit. What's. What's happening there? What do you see there?
- [11:26]
Sabrina Merchant
Honestly, it's just a matter of they're playing on the road versus at home right now. They're very good at Cambridge. Caitlin Clark is very good at Gainbridge, shooting about 45% on our three pointers at home versus I think 6% on the road. One out of 22, maybe that's even less than 6%. I gotta do my math in my head. But it's been a very bad shooting season for Caitlin Clark away from home. And considering Indiana is not the stoutest defensive team in the world, be fooled by that defensive rating ranking. It is mostly propped up by two games against the Chicago Sky. Otherwise they are not a very good defensive team. They need their offense to travel and it has not. And that has led them to these just come from ahead losses against both the Valkyries and the Aces on this most recent road trip, which continues. And so it's a point of concern if the Fever can't figure out how to turn this around, especially because they're a little bit shorthanded to, you know, they're missing Damaris Dantes for the America Cup. Dewana Bonner still away for personal reasons. So they're a little thinner than you might have expected for a team that supposedly added up so much depth during the off season. They're just, they're smaller, they're not rebounding the ball particularly well. And it looks great when like the crowd's behind them and the momentum is going at home. And then the minute some adversity hits, like you looked at that Aces game, the Aces take the lead early in the fourth quarter right on that Aliyah Nye three pointer actually, incidentally. And they just never got back in the game. Right. They never lost the lead afterwards. It's. There's just a lack of punch, so to speak. So I don't know. That's why the Fever ended up taking, I think, the biggest fall in this week's rankings.
- [12:48]
Zena Kaida
And I think that was what was so interesting. Like the Aces have been told said to not have that punch throughout this season. And so to see them close that game like that was really, really interesting. All right, Indiana fan base, you gotta rock with your team through the adversity. Let's see how this works while they're on the road. You still gotta rock with em. What else is on our mind for this week? Ben, did you watch that Dallas Mystics game?
- [13:11]
Ben Pickman
It was a crazy ending at the End of that game for sure.
- [13:14]
Zena Kaida
Okay, what were your thoughts? Sonia Citron, 27 points. Like I was, in my mind I was picking her up similar to how Kiki Iriafan picked her up. Unbelievable performance. But it was back and forth between these two teams, of course. Arike Gubawale, Paige Beckers, they were phenomenal. What did you see out there?
- [13:31]
Ben Pickman
I mean, my first thought is what is Maisha Hines Allen doing on that final possession that Sonya Citron gets the three off because there was no one even in the area code, in the zip code like at all. You know, credit to Sony Citron for making a game winning three. Basically with 12 seconds ago, we should say she scores 27 points, you know, an awesome game for her as she puts, you know, continues string together a really good start to the season. But like, I mean, there was no one even close to her on that final possession. It was super open. You know, what was impressive about her offensive game was just the variety of ways she scored the basketball. Right. Sometimes it is catch and shoot. Three is like she does on the game winning possession. Sometimes it's getting out and running in transition and, you know, having tough finishes. Sometimes it's on these kind of curls that they run her through inside the arc. These like, you know, short curls around the elbow where we see her curling off screens and she'll finish there sometimes. There was a little bit of scoring off the dribble as well that was kind of mixed into her repertoire there. So she had a really good game against, you know, Paige Beckers, who we should say. And you know, Sabrina has watched a ton of them too. Like, Paige is playing really, really well of late too, since she came back, especially with the, with the concussion. So it was a very good game of two rookies going at it. I think a tough loss too for Dallas, who very much to me still feels like a team that is learning how to win. It was something they kind of talked about, you know, when they blew that lead to Las Vegas afterwards, it was all about like, we haven't been in a lot of those situations, you know, over the weekend when they play Washington, another scenario of them playing in a close game and they again, you know, don't come away with it. They're still learning how to win these close games. It seems pretty clear.
- [15:02]
Zena Kaida
Yeah, mystics pull away 91, 88 in overtime. Tough, tough loss. I was really impressed with the fact, I think Sonya played 41 minutes, Paige, 40 minutes. Like we're seeing rookies put in significant time for their teams and that is going to wear on you. But what's going to be interesting is that they rematch real soon. Not only will Paige go up against Caitlin Clark on Friday, I think against the Fever, and then on Saturday they get to see the Mystics back to back. And so once again that WNBA schedule is grueling, but we kind of get to reap the benefits of it because we get to see these amazing matchups go up against each other in very short windows of time. Let's keep it going. Gabby Williams, eight steals against la. Like that's, I don't know. That's, that's crazy. I don't know if I've ever seen something like that, especially against the best players in the world. And Seattle right now is putting things together. You know, I think a few weeks ago Erica Wheeler had an emotional interview. Gabby Williams, you know, had her post game interview as well. Like it's clear that this team is building something and they're getting things together. Neko Gwimeke has been on a heater. I think over the last three games she's averaging like 25 points a game. Earlier this year in May, she beat Candace Parker. I think she became all time scoring leader, number nine on that list and now she's moved up to number nine on the all time rebounding list, beating Tina Thompson. She's now at 3,071 rebounds. Sabrina Schuyler Diggins said. Nick Ogui McKay is one of the most disrespected MVPs in league history. Why? Why, why are we seeing somebody that's putting up these type of numbers not be? Or at least why do you think Skylar Duggans believes that?
- [16:40]
Sabrina Merchant
Well, I mean, I think part of it is she's the only American MVP to never make a USA Basketball team for the Olympics. That's probably the number one disrespectful item on Neca's list that Absolutely. Despite USA Basketball's historic policy of including number one picks, she was not brought in 2012. She was the MVP in 2016, not on the team. And then in 2021, despite being the face of the USA Basketball campaign that did the little barnstorming tour before the Olympics, she was also left off the team. So I think that's where that disrespect sentiment comes from. I can't really understand why it has persisted this way. But NECA is just freaking awesome. She's going to go down as one of the top 10 very best players to ever play this game. She's just been a model of consistency been equally efficient from year one to year 13 in the WNBA. So very cool to see her continuing to be just dominant and helping the Seattle Storm on this recent surge of theirs.
- [17:29]
Zena Kaida
And Ben Seattle Storm. That performance led to an 8979 win over the New York Liberty. It is fair to say, you know, no Jonquil Jones, no Sabrinaescu, no Leo Fibich. But thoughts on what that game really means for the Storm season that now moved to 95 on the year.
- [17:47]
Ben Pickman
What it does is it's just continuing to consolidate this middle. Like the league is really really deep right now with Seattle, Atlanta, Phoenix, the Aces and Indy. You know that is a huge group. I mean the Valkers are in that group right now record wise for me. Still they're a tier below some of those teams in terms of overall ceiling for the season. But like Seattle shown that they can beat anyone on any given night. And frankly pretty much everyone around the league has proven that this year. I mean we talked about it. Neck is playing an on all Star level as Sabrina mentioned, Skyler Diggins playing at an all star level. When we did the podcast last week and we talked about potential first time All Stars Gabby Williams, you mentioned it. You know the defensive performance, the eighth deal she has 12 and 10. That's points and assists over New York. Super aggressive. Overall they're plus 30 with her in terms of on off. One interesting note on her too in terms of just her this year versus past years. Last season two thirds of her drives to the basket were on the right side of the hoop. This year she's about even. Eight of her drives have been on the left, seven have been right. We've just seen a little bit more diversity and how she's getting downhill. You know. Big picture though in terms of that game, Sunday's game from a New York perspective I guess too. I'm not really reading too much into it. Just knowing that they were out without three of their key figures, right? Jones, Feebich and Unescu. I will say on the John Paul Jones injury, I mean the team said that she avoided significant injury in terms of the right ankle sprain. That seems to be a re aggravation of what she had earlier this year. The thing that is really of note though is you know, four to six weeks, it takes you a month, a little more than a month. I don't want to be the schedule guy and just like talk schedule for a second, but it comes at a really interesting time in New York schedule because all of their games from July 3 to July 26 are at home, you have the All Star break in between. So she's missing a stretch of almost exclusively home games or exclusively home games for New York. So in theory, you know, role players play a little better. There's comfort of being at home. That's a good thing. But from July 28 to August 16, so that's probably in the window that Jones comes back. All six of New York's eight games are on the road. That's a tough sketch, just knowing that they're going to have to go back on the road. And we should also mention that in terms of John Cole Jones coming off of injury, like, there's going to also have to be a little bit of a reentry period for her. I know obviously she's so comfortable with the player she's now playing with, but we saw this at the start of the 2023 season. JJ was actually dealing with a stress reaction in her left foot at the end of that off season, and she was a little bit slow to kind of start that year. She didn't have her first double double with New York until their 10th game of the season. It really wasn't until midway through the year, that first year with New York for her, that she hit her stride. So, you know, the effects of this injury for New York. Yeah, it's four to six weeks with her out. The first month might be mostly home games, if not all of them, then she might come back on a road trip. And then the question is, how long does it take for her to enter back? And suddenly, like we're talking, it could be September, like, theoretically, until we're seeing, like top line John Paul Jones. You know, September feeds right into October and we'll see how long the New York Liberty are playing. So, you know, she avoided significant injury, but that doesn't mean there aren't potentially significant implications of this down the road.
- [20:51]
Zena Kaida
Absolutely. Gosh, September sounds scary if you're New York Liberty, that's a lot of time to have to survive without what a lot of people would call an X factor. A significant player for the New York Liberty. Well, hoping that, you know, she heals well and doesn't rush anything. We obviously have seen what happened in the NBA Finals. We don't want to rush any players back from injury. Wishing her a speedy recovery and healthy one. But one more thing before we dive into our conversation about the Power Fours Portland Fire, a little bit of retro action here. Portland. Apparently there's been some. At least there's been trademarks filed for. For the Portland Fire that we know of Sabrina. What do we know? What are our thoughts?
- [21:33]
Sabrina Merchant
Well, we know the WNBA filed trademarks for the name Portland Fire and a stylized logo of a P, which presumably will be the logo of the team going forward. And as you mentioned, it's a revival. The Portland Fire were a WNBA team from 2000 to 2002. So short lived during the early stages of the WNBA. Personally kind of hate it. There's a big wildfire problem on the west coast and I just don't love the idea of naming a team after Fire. So I guess WNBA wasn't concerned about that. Or maybe there was some groundswell in Portland that they just wanted to bring back the old team name. But I had hoped that given the shared ownership with the thorns that they would lean into the rose imagery of Portland. But they appear to have gone in a different direction.
- [22:11]
Zena Kaida
Yeah, I thought that too.
- [22:12]
Ben Pickman
All appears this is all still just if it's all like, you know, we're kind of reading team memes. They have circled as the team July 15th as this announcement date. We don't know what it's for. Fair to think it's going to be name and logo. I think that's a little safe to assume, but we're all just kind of making assumptions there. I should just throw it out for the sake of accuracy.
- [22:32]
Sabrina Merchant
If we see any new trademark applications, well, you know, we'll update as needed.
- [22:36]
Ben Pickman
We'll be on the. Yeah, on that website. Refresh it every minute of every day.
- [22:40]
Zena Kaida
I'm loving the trademarks right now. You know, Angel, Reese, me, Bounce, then Portland Fire. It's just like a thing. Also July 15th, my birthday. So shout out to Portland. Maybe it's an ode to me. All right, let's keep this conversation going. It's time to talk about Powerforce. How can you free your team from time consuming office tasks? Amazon Business empowers leaders to not only streamline purchasing, but better support their teams. Smart business buying tools enable buyers to find and purchase items fast so they can focus on strategy and growth. It's time to free up your teams and focus on your future. Learn more about the technology insights and Support available@AmazonBusiness.com this episode is sponsored by.
- [23:22]
Unknown
The San Diego State University Sports MBA Program, a full time in person graduate program that trains students for sports business roles with team front offices, agencies, venues, brands and more. The program's MBA curriculum has all the numbers heavy content of a typical mba, but adds a sports focus by exploring themes such as growth of women's sports, labor relations, athletes rights and social responsibility. SDSU Sports MBA students study abroad for a week in the Dominican Republic to learn about the many ways in which MLB's presence impacts the country. Throughout their studies, students can gain experience as interns, consultants and part time employees with sports organizations throughout Southern California, including San Diego WAVE FC. Applications are currently being accepted through July 1st for an August 2025 start. Visit SDSU Edu Nooffseason to learn more and apply.
- [24:24]
Zena Kaida
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- [24:26]
Ben Pickman
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- [24:32]
Sabrina Merchant
Yeah, you can earn unlimited daily cash back with Apple Card on every purchase. No matter where you check out with Apple Pay, you always get daily cash.
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Ben Pickman
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Sabrina Merchant
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Zena Kaida
Subject to credit approval Savings available to Apple Card owners subject to eligibility Savings and Apple Card by Goldman Sachs Bank USA member FDIC terms and more@applecard.com for a very long time, the power forward has been the most dominant position in the wnba. And there's been stars past and present that have been in this role. Candace Parker, Elena Deldon, Rebecca Brunson, Nafisa Collier, Brianna Stewart, Neko Guimike, Asia Wilson, they all play or played the 4 position. Whether they went up to a 5 or went down to a 3 varies, but this has always been a dominant role. And if you're looking at the MVP namings in the last few years, you could tell Power Fours are really important to the game of women's basketball, pro women's basketball. But lately with the rise of stars like Caitlin Clark, Sabrina Unescu, Jackie Young, Paige Beckers, the guards seem to want a bit of that action. Okay, so we wanna talk about it. The rise of the position of the Power four. What role they typically play on their teams. Historically, has this been written in the tea leaves kind of thing? Like, do we know that this position would rise to such importance within the scheme of women's basketball and will they continue to dominate? So I think I wanna start with historically, how did we get here? Because Sabrina, you know, especially with your NBA knowledge and obviously I cover the NBA too, and I'm looking at the transition of the NBA in terms of like the unicorns that are starting to happen in a Wemby being 7 foot 4 and playing the guard position, Kevin Durant being 7 foot and being a wing. Jabari Smith Jr. Like you're seeing this trend towards really big wings, but in the WNBA it's always been, and it feels like in the last few years it's been the trend towards really big forwards, not small forwards. Forwards, take us back. Where did this start? Where do you think was the inflection point where this really began to be apparent?
- [27:06]
Sabrina Merchant
Well, I'm not sure. It's always been the case that power forwards have been the best position in the wnba. You look back at the Houston comics dynasty that let off the first four titles in WNBA history, and that was a team led by Cheryl Swoops and Cynthia Cooper, who were both guards, maybe Wings, and even the New York Liberty teams that they went up against, you've got Teespoon as one of the best players on those teams. It's not like the power forward has just number one. Like day one of WNBA history has been the position that everybody wanted. But then you look sort of like at the next decade, you've got like Lauren Jackson and Lisa Leslie winning MVPs. They're more centers. I think to me, I sort of identify when Candace Parker came into the league in 2008 as okay, she can kind of do everything and we need to find somebody to stop her. And I look sort of from that point on. And that to me is like when you start to see all those names you mentioned, right? The Elena Dale Dons, Nako Gumbuke, you know, you think about like Satu Sablee has been really good of late. She's sort of a power forward. Alyssa Thomas is one of the preeminent power forwards in this league. Jonquil Jones, even when she won mvp, that was the year she was playing next to Bree Jones, who was a nominal center. So you would consider JJ the power forward on that team. I think in the last, like in the Candace Parker era, I would say at the WNBA is where I've really noticed that power forwards have taken on an extra level of prominence. And maybe it's because you mentioned the NBA comparison. That role was sort of siloed. Like they turned into stretch fours or had very specific roles thrust upon them. Whereas Candace can do everything right. She's playmaking, she's a great defender, she can run the offense, she can do the traditional back to basket post up stuff. And when you look at power forwards in the W, they are not only the best position in the wnba, I think they're the most versatile position in the WNBA as well.
- [28:40]
Zena Kaida
I'm happy you brought that up. Because that's. I want to talk a little bit more about what power forwards have done most recently in this game in terms of changing it. Ben, you know, there's a lot of talk around point forwards, right? They're becoming basically the quarterbacks of these teams in the way that point guards are typically. What would you say are the biggest elements of the game that point forwards change, impact, offer to the game?
- [29:05]
Ben Pickman
It is that versatility. And for some of the really elite fours that Sabrina threw out, like, so much of the offense that teams run runs through that player, right? So they are potentially bringing the ball up. If not, they are, you know, making key decisions in terms of where the basketball goes. You know, are they passing off, you know, are they finding players, guards or other wings cutting to the basket? Are they stagger, screening away and then are they popping for threes? Are they, you know, rebounding and pushing in transition? Just the basketball ends up finding them in their hands and that versatility is on full display. What's really interesting, and I actually asked Nate Tibbets about this last week, you know, as Phoenix was getting ready to play New York, was to talk to those people, because Nate Tibbets comes from the NBA background. He had been an assistant with the Orlando Magic and the Portland Trailblazers. Their general manager is Nikki Ren. He had been with the Golden State warriors for an office before he ended up getting the Phoenix job. And what Nate said was that when Nate Nick kind of took over and they came in at around the same time when they came into the league, they were kind of told that you kind of need one of these elite fours, one of these really versatile fours, to have success in the wnba, because so many of the teams that have, you know, had great success over these past couple years have had that kind of position. What Phoenix did last year, though, if you look at their team, they were basically playing twos and threes as their fours. They were playing Sophie Cunningham up, they were playing back Allen. Like, they didn't have one of these versatile fours. And what Phoenix went out and did this past offseason is they acquired two of the, you know, six or seven elite forwards that we're talking about, right? And Satu Samli and Alyssa Thomas. So again, if you look at the case of the Phoenix Mercury, right, their lead guard right now might be Monika Kawamakani, and she's played pretty well of late. She played her best game of the season against the Liberty. But they very much are a team built around these, like, versatile unicorn, like fours. And that's again, as we're saying, like, that was very intentional in terms of how this roster was constructed. What else is kind of interesting about the state of the four in the wnba, especially when you look at the Mercury perspective and the kind of NBA WNBA influences right now in the W, like having these versatile do everything forwards is different than the NBA where like the lead ball handler seems to be the most important position that, that you can have. And it seems like in the W right now, it is still all about do you have this, this versatile four who can, you can run things through, who can guard anybody. That seems to still be kind of the position du jour.
- [31:27]
Zena Kaida
It's interesting. Becky Hammond, when asked about the NBA and what you need, she said, you need a guy. And that was really emphasis around being able to get a bucket. And I actually, I do believe that translates to the wnba. But it's not just you need a guy or a girl or however you want to put that, but you need someone that can only get a bucket, but you need also someone that can see the floor well and distribute and set up your place. Sabrina, I feel like this is so different than when I first learned about basketball. And we were like, all right, two posts down low, three guards on the inside, on the outside, guards, go screen down low for your bigs, are going to come back up. We're going to do something like it was just like this little, I don't want to call it a pyramid situation, but like it was three out, two in. And that is how it was always about back to the basket posts, players being able to make post moves. And now we're talking about the Mercury. I mean, Alyssa Thomas is bringing the ball up the floor. She is setting things up. It's so different than what it used to be.
- [32:30]
Sabrina Merchant
I mean, three out, two in is like generous. You think about all those guards who like, like to get their work done in the post too, right? Like, everybody wanted to start towards the basket and then work out. And you think about the way the WNBA is now. It's really hard to even play two bigs. You know, I look at the Atlanta Dream and they signed Bree Jones and Brittney Griner this offseason. And yet their most productive lineups include one of those centers with Nas Hillman. And even Bree Jones and Griner have seen, you know, their offenses shift where they're taking a lot more jumpers away from the basket than they have in previous seasons. You think about the other teams that survive with two bigs, it's because One of them can shoot threes, right? Like whether that's Atlanta Smith or Jonquil Jones or, you know, in my neck of the woods, Azarae Stevens has become a lot more of a prolific three point shooter. So it's really hard in this era where space is so important to have like two players who get the majority of their work done close to the basket. Like Ben mentioned this earlier on the pod, a lineup with four Olympians in Las Vegas plus Kia Stokes isn't even a positive lineup because Kia Stokes and Asia Wilson like to operate the same areas close to the basket. So, you know, you've seen those spacing principles, like translate where you've got to have like four out, one in. But that hasn't changed the fact that like the position of the power forward is still super important in terms of like, they're the ones who oftentimes run the offense or you know, bringing the ball up on trails and like most important defensive player. Like it's. To me, it seems so hard to even like build a roster without one of those. Because you think every night like, oh crap, like I gotta guard Neca, I gotta guard Derek, I gotta guard Asia. Like, who is supposed to do these things?
- [33:54]
Zena Kaida
Yeah, speaking of how hard it is to guard, defend, I mean, listen to Melissa Smith. There was a great TikTok from It's Seaway's World ESQ shout out to sis being a lawyer, probably with a clip of Dijonay Carrington and Melissa Smith on a beach, chilling, talking about not only how hard it is to guard this position, but also just how key they are within the scheme of the game. Listen here. So four is the best position in the W. Everything plays through the floor in the W. Every action is played through the trail. And that's the four player. And that's what I'll be trying to tell y' all folks, because you all be on my ass about dude defense, bro. But I'm guarding Asa Wilson, Rihanna Stewart, Alyssa Thomas, Nafisa Collier, Neca. Like, come on, fam. What y' all want me to do, bro? I'm trying. Now that is the best. Those are the best. The best players in the W right now are awesome. I swear to God. Like what the facts crazy too. That's a fact. All the best persons that we right now are for four players, they be going unfair and they don't get tired.
- [35:02]
Ben Pickman
Well, and that's why it's not a fluke, Xena, when you look at the Dallas Wings record where they are in the standings, right? Because if you look at their front court, like, let's just be real here. Like, their front court is in the bottom two or three overall. In the wnba, I mean, it's just like that just speaks to, to how important this position is overall. The other thing we started to see, trend wise, to Sabrina's point too, is we have started to see elite guards recognize the importance of being a really good screener. Right. That is something that, you know, I don't think you would have talked about five or ten years ago. Sabrina Nescu told me in training camp that one of the things she prioritized this off season was becoming a better screener where you can suddenly have these inverted pick and rolls where, you know, you have the big who is handling the basketball and the guard comes over to set a screen and then the guard, you know, maybe rolls or pops or, you know, gets out of there and clear space. But like, that is an action that we didn't see a lot of five or 10 years ago. Now, if you watch the New York Liberty, you know, we see a lot of guards screening for bigs and then letting the big decide, do they want to get downhill, do they want to dish? What is the big doing with the basketball? That is kind of an effect of, you know, it's a product of having such a versatile forward that, you know, New York and some of these other teams we've mentioned.
- [36:18]
Sabrina Merchant
Have you mentioned Phoenix too? Like, so many of their guards have to screen for Alyssa Thomas when she's the one running the action. Like when Sammy Wickham screens for her. That's what creates all those open three point. I mean, you think about the Aces and their success. Like there's that famous out of bounds play they run where Asia Wilson gets an open path at the basket. Kelsey Plum was the one making that scream to get her open. So it's definitely important for all these players to figure out how they fit around that star in the power forward.
- [36:41]
Zena Kaida
Yeah. Because it's not just the defensive conversation of how to guard them. It is a matter of what can I do to be relevant around this player and help her and help this team. And I think it really comes down to the space. I believe, Sabrina, you were just the one that mentioned, like, Kia Stokes and Asia Wilson have struggled in the sense that they, they occupy the same space. Right. And that's why Kia Stokes has to be able to space out to the corner and hit that outside shot to allow Asia Wilson to operate in space. So I'm looking and seeing, you know, 10 years ago, about 17 threes were put up as a league average per game. 17. You fast forward 10 years later right now, Ben, I believe we're at about 25 a game.
- [37:26]
Ben Pickman
Yeah, 124 per game.
- [37:29]
Zena Kaida
There you go. That's a significant jump in the amount of threes going up. And this position is included in that group that is taking that. Sabrina, you mentioned earlier that things changed around 08 when Candace Parker entered the league. What did she do, in your opinion, from what you saw in really instilling this role within the scheme of basketball.
- [37:53]
Sabrina Merchant
So, admittedly, my experience around this is fairly anecdotal because I obviously live in la, where Candace Parker started her WNBA career, and a lot of people I've spoken with about this have been in anticipation of Candace's jersey retirement. So her name just happens to be on people's minds. But I think, you know, Candace was the first sort of point forward of this mold, you know, who was able to bring the ball up and run the offense and like Ben said, you know, get the rebound, grab and go. And you couldn't take that role away from her because it was arguably the best part of her skill.
- [38:21]
Zena Kaida
Right.
- [38:21]
Sabrina Merchant
So if she could do that, then it sort of opens the floor for other people to want to. And I know Kurt Miller has often credited Candace for inspiring Alyssa Thomas to build her game the way she did. Right. She is the prototypical playmaking 4 in the WNBA now, now that Candace is retired. And I think just her ability to expand the possibilities of what we think a power forward can do and do at a high level just sort of inspires everyone to, one, want to be like Candace and develop those parts of those game. And then two, give coaches the permission to be like, hey, if somebody else can do it, then we can. Because leagues are copycat leagues. Right. If somebody else is doing it, other coaches are like, yeah, that's great. Let's do it too.
- [38:56]
Zena Kaida
Right?
- [38:56]
Sabrina Merchant
And that's great. Like, that's how these things happen. You know, everybody's stealing plays from everybody else. And if Candace was sort of opening the playbook, that just allowed everybody to follow in her path.
- [39:04]
Zena Kaida
Okay, I want to ask both of you this question because we've seen the difference between the power four in terms of power fours that are also threes or power fours that are also fives. And I'm a big proponent of small ball. I always think teams that can go small and still be successful are always going to be more dominant in a league because if their big man, big woman, whatever you want to call it, Gets in foul trouble. They can change and be versatile enough and be flexible enough to go small and still have an impact on the floor. I think that is, that is depth. That is true depth to me. So I want to ask you guys, like, which power forward going three, four or four, five do you think has had more of an impact in the WNBA as of late? Ben, I'll start with you.
- [39:52]
Ben Pickman
I mean, I think it's having some of these fours who can also play the five. So you can just play, you know, four wings or guards around the big. Because then you're suddenly playing like in the case of the aces that we're talking about here, Asia Wilson, who is your, you know, your most dominant player in the league, league is playing against, you know, with all these all stars plus a shooter. And it's just pick your poison about who do you guard. So if your best player is able to do that, it is such an advantage right now on four teams in the wnba. The other thing I would say though too, like we should mention Fee, I think a little bit more because one of the things she is proving too, like there is still room to be an effective player as a big around the basket and in the mid range, like one of the things that makes her so special is that in this era of pace and space, in this era where, you know, we're talking about the importance of A4 being able to slide up and be kind of your, your, you know, your biggest player on the floor, her mid range jumpers on offense, her post game is some of the most unguardable, you know, skill shot in the sport right now. And that is like, you know, a huge credit to her and it's one of the distinguishing factors in her game and in Minnesota's overall offense is that like she's such a unicorn because she can do that and that is such an advantage for what she can do and as a result what Minnesota can do.
- [41:07]
Sabrina Merchant
I was going to say, like Fee's emergence is kind of one of the reasons why I think the 34 is so important because V came into the league and people weren't sure if she was capable of being a 4 because she's a little bit smaller than your traditional power forward and her ability to have these wing skills, you know, while also guarding the position of the four and being so effective in that real estate right around the basket. Let's not forget that she's still shooting 42% on threes. Like this is a woman who can do everything. I think it's really like what allows you to play more wings and more players who can space the floor if you have that sort of combo forward who can toggle between both those positions. And I think Stewie is sort of like the progenitor of that position where she came into the league as a three. She wins her first two titles in Seattle next to two other bigs. Right. She's playing the small forward, and all of a sudden later in her career, she just evolves into a different position altogether. Right. And now is playing as next to one big in Jonquill Jones or whoever the center happens to be for New York in that particular configuration. But I think as the league just gets more and more skilled and you want to have more players with, like, more athleticism and more range and, you know, more ball skills on the court, it helps to have, like, those combo forwards who can play either of those, because I think it just gives you more versatility in terms of, like, you don't have to play a traditional center back to basket all the time, like two of those next to them, you know?
- [42:18]
Zena Kaida
Yeah. And I also think it's, you know, it's interesting because you can. This conversation could change based on, are we talking about offense or are we talking about defense? Right. Especially with the 3, 4. It's like being able to switch 1 through 4, switch 1 through 5, really, in this league. But that is becoming one of the reasons why the 34 might be, you know, more dominant on defense. But again, that 4, 5 position, as you mentioned, Ben, being able to just pick your poison of having shooters, ball handlers, spacers, anyone that is out there that can, you know, provide you some. Some sort of boon on offense or boost on offense is great. Okay, I want to ask you guys, before we get into the threat to this position or potential threat to this position, what do you think is the most efficient skill of a power four? Because as you guys were talking about fee, I'm immediately imagining that turnaround jumper. Oh, or the up and under move, right? And I also, as I think about that, I think about Asia Wilson's turnaround jumper, and I think about Brianna Stewart's turnaround jumper, and then I'm like, oh, but then the midi. And I'm thinking about Neko Guimike's ability to post up or step out for the midi, and I'm thinking about all of these players that had so much in their bag offensively at least, and then their blocking games, right? They're just ridiculous swatters. What is the most important skill, you think that a power Fourier had. Obviously this is opinion. So, Sabrina, what do you think?
- [43:38]
Sabrina Merchant
A lot of different potential options here. I still think this is a league where the best offenses tend to win championships. So if you were going to be one of the best offenses, you need to be efficient in the most important real estate on the court, and that is around the basketball. So I think a player who is able to effectively score, regardless of double teams, regardless of what defensive coverages are like, get their shots and score at a high rate in the restricted area, to me, that is the most important thing.
- [44:00]
Zena Kaida
Ooh, I like it. And that was big in the, in the finals, we saw that be a huge factor, scoring in the paint. Ben, what about you?
- [44:07]
Ben Pickman
I was just gonna say on the defensive end, I mean, I think the rim protection that, you know, having one of these forwards can provide is really important. But also what we have seen too is having the big be able to switch out and guard guards is especially important right now. And I think it is one of the things that when you look at Brianna Stewart is a little bit of a unicorn. Like she guarded Caitlin Clark throughout the entirety of the fourth quarter of their most recent game and was very, very effective. And so having a big who can really just run all over the court, they can switch based on position when it requires it, they can trap when they need to, they can soft edge, they can blitz. Like, they can play any number of different coverages and do it really well. Like, that is really, again, all we're talking about here is when you have an elite player who can do a lot of things, it's an amazing luxury. That's one of the other thesises. It's like, no duh in this conversation. Like, if you have one of these, you know, six, seven bigs who can do it all, like you're at an advantage. But like that holds true that having one of these players who can be so versatile on that end of the floor, we've seen it is such a luxury on the defensive end too. I know we've, we've talked a lot about offense and what they can bring, but, you know, that can't be overstated enough either.
- [45:17]
Zena Kaida
Yeah, I, I absolutely agree with the. I mean, both. That's why I asked you guys. You guys are so smart, seeing both sides of the ball. I really think that that ability to switch on defense is so important and not be a liability, not be exposed when you're out on the perimeter. I think that is so big. And again, I think a fee and just that stupidly long wingspan just Being a terror out on the perimeter just as much as she is in the post. Now, before we close this out, we've seen that the point guards, I think they got something to say about this. Um, of course, Caitlin Clark right now, I believe might still be second in MVP odds. We saw that. You know, she was in the top five last year in terms of final votes. Paige Becker's is looking good. Jackie Young has done phenomenal things, not only just in the wnba, but of course, we saw her impact in the Olympics. Like, we're seeing the guards have something to say and want to raise their hand and be like, yo, yo, yo. We might not be that tall, but we're still important. When you think about this role of the power forward, what would be, you would say, like, in terms of positions, the biggest threat, potential threat to the power forwards, dominating the MVP Conversation, I.
- [46:27]
Ben Pickman
Think it's about, you know, are we in this era where everything we just talked about is a product of who the specific players are, or is it a product of kind of how basketball is being played and, like, the positional landscape? Right. Like, you know, is what we talked about just now a product of Alyssa Thomas and Stewie and Asia and Fee being, you know, the best players in the league? Right. In 2013, all five members of the All WNBA First Team were forwards. The question is, going forward, will we have first teams where Caitlin Clark and Sabrina and Paige Beckers, you know, are three of the five members of the first team in five years, will it be Clark, Yanescu, Juju Watkins and Paige? Like, I'm, you know, I'm just throwing out scenarios and we don't have one of these kind of unicorn bigs in the sport. Like, you know, this was a question that, you know, I posted some people around the league and, you know, Carl Smesco, the coach of the Dream, an interesting test case because they've kind of relied on these double bigs a lot this year with two centers over having one of these, like, unicorn forwards. He basically was like, yeah, I think that's a realistic possibility that just like things will shift as the makeup of the WNBA shifts. Another interesting name to consider going forward is like Lauren Betts, for instance. She could be very well be the top pick in next year's draft. She is, at least as of now, a pretty traditional five. Right. We'll see how much she's going to step out and shoot threes this year alongside her sister, who is also like 6, 4, 6, 5, but, like, she's much more traditional as a 5. But what happens if she is one of the most dominant players in the league going forward? Like, I do think some of a lot of this, frankly, is a product of just who is in the league at this moment in time and what is their skill set overall.
- [48:17]
Sabrina Merchant
I mean, I think we have enough young, dominant power forwards to sustain for a little while here. Like Nafisa Collier was in the 2019 draft. Satusavily was in the 2020 draft. Another one of those combo three fours who's been exceptional. I think you look at the teams that have struggled to meet expectations this year. Part of it is the Aces because they don't have a second forward to compliment Asia Wilson. Part of it is the Indiana Fever because they are too small. They don't really have a power forward who's played particularly well this season. They're just sort of masquerading like Sophie Cunningham at that spot or, you know, because Natasha Howard hasn't performed up to her expectation. You know, I do look at the next generation of players coming in, but like Sarah Strong is in there, right? Like, she's going to be an excellent power forward when she gets to the wm. She already could be the best player in college basketball next season. Who knows? So I think just by virtue of having to build your teams to like, you cannot win a title without getting through Brianna Stewart, Nafeesa Khali or Asia Wilson. Right. So at a certain point, like, it's just you have to figure that out first and that inherently ends up making better power forwards to me. Like, I didn't even mention Kiki Irafen yet. Right. She's been awesome as a rookie, arguably, like definitely a top three rookie. You know, Xena's favorite, Ben's favorite, right? I don't even know at this point. Janelle Salon is a great power forward. I think about next year's draft AWA Fam. She's like kind of a center size, but also sort of plays like a power forward. Like there is a nice young crop of power forwards still coming through. And I think a lot of them grew up watching players like Candace and Stewie and Elena Deludon and wanting to model their games after them. So I think that pipeline could still.
- [49:38]
Zena Kaida
Continue and there's so many more you can see are developing their game right now to become better power forwards. I think of Ezzy McMagore as she's working to get her outside shot going. I'm looking at Angel Reese trying to become more of a distributor, a developer outside shot. So you're seeing people are adapting and you know, as you mentioned, it's a copycat league. People are seeing who's getting to the bag in terms of buckets, efficiency, getting wins, impacting the league in a dominant way. And it's the power forward position. So I don't know. Guards. I don't know you guys listening? You guys tell us what you think. Are the guards posing a threat to the power forward or the power forwards? Here to see.
- [50:19]
Sabrina Merchant
You can't see Xena's hands if she's just been doing the too small gesture the entire segment.
- [50:24]
Ben Pickman
I was gonna say Xena, can you. Can you just. As we wrap this, can you just describe your game for a second? We should just get our personal biases out on the table. You were a. What kind of thing?
- [50:33]
Zena Kaida
No, no, no, no. I mean I was a power forward. However, however. However. I do think there's something to be said about how, how much are we talking about juju Watkins being a six foot point guard, Right. Big shot or six, right? Exactly. I mean six, three if you roll and really count the bun. But like literally the height is a thing. Being a big guard and being a bigger person that can handle the ball is a big thing. And what does that sound like a power forward? All right, let's continue the conversation cause Sabrina has a game for us. This message is brought to you by Apple Card. Apply for Apple Card today and start earning up to 3% daily cash back on everyday purchases. And that daily cash can even grow automatically when you open a high yield savings account through Apple Card. What are you waiting for? Visit Apple Co CardCalculator today to see how much daily cash you can earn. Subject to credit approval. Savings available to Apple Card owners subject to eligibility. Savings in Apple Card by Goldman Sachs Bank USA member FDIC terms and more.
- [51:42]
Unknown
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- [52:07]
Ben Pickman
Which is why we're so excited to.
- [52:08]
Sabrina Merchant
Tell you about the new Lamellar gloss.
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- [52:38]
Zena Kaida
Welcome back. It's game time here now on the show latest Sabrina, you take the reins.
- [52:43]
Sabrina Merchant
All right, so after watching the Stanley cup finals and seeing Kia Nurse's brother Darnell Nurse, you know, play for so long, I was inspired to think about WNBA siblings. So this is. This is really easy, really straightforward. You guys are going to crush this. I have no doubts. So we'll. We'll start easy and then just build up from there. And I assume the guy you two are going to play together, right?
- [53:02]
Zena Kaida
Are these older siblings or like, current player?
- [53:07]
Sabrina Merchant
These are current players. All of these questions are about current W players and their siblings.
- [53:11]
Zena Kaida
I was like, are you talking to Paris twins? Okay, sorry, go ahead.
- [53:14]
Ben Pickman
Okay.
- [53:16]
Sabrina Merchant
Okay, so first thing, super easy. Who are the three pairs of siblings currently on WNBA rosters?
- [53:22]
Zena Kaida
Katie Lou, Carly Lou. Right.
- [53:25]
Sabrina Merchant
Not Carly Lou, but Carly.
- [53:26]
Ben Pickman
Yeah, just Carly.
- [53:27]
Zena Kaida
Oh, Carly. I call this. I always say that in my mind. Yes. Katie Lou and Carly. Uh huh.
- [53:34]
Ben Pickman
The Savolisatu.
- [53:37]
Zena Kaida
Yeah.
- [53:37]
Ben Pickman
And who is the third pair? Who are we forgetting?
- [53:41]
Zena Kaida
Not the holes. Not.
- [53:44]
Ben Pickman
Not the Akuma ks.
- [53:45]
Zena Kaida
Not the Akwimikes.
- [53:48]
Ben Pickman
Not the Joneses. Who are we blanking on? Oh. Oh, the west belts.
- [53:55]
Sabrina Merchant
The west belts.
- [53:56]
Zena Kaida
Oh, my God. Yes. Catherine and Maddie. Yes. Yes. The West Belt.
- [54:00]
Sabrina Merchant
See, I thought the Samuelsons would be a little bit harder because Katie Lou's a little out of sight, out of mind. But very nicely done. Okay.
- [54:05]
Zena Kaida
Hey, Katie was hitting her free throws the other day. Okay, sorry. Go ahead.
- [54:08]
Sabrina Merchant
All right. Okay, so this WNBA player and her sibling both played at the same college, and they both led their conference in steals. Twice.
- [54:17]
Ben Pickman
They played at the same college and they led their conference in steals. This is a wnba.
- [54:24]
Sabrina Merchant
Current WNBA player and her sibling. Yeah.
- [54:27]
Ben Pickman
Who could play in the NBA.
- [54:28]
Sabrina Merchant
Could play in the NBA. Yeah.
- [54:31]
Zena Kaida
Ooh, interesting. McConnells.
- [54:33]
Sabrina Merchant
It is the McConnells. Very nice.
- [54:35]
Zena Kaida
Yeah.
- [54:37]
Unknown
Yay.
- [54:37]
Zena Kaida
I love it. Oh, my God, I love the interview. If you haven't seen the McConnell dad interview, after the Indiana Pacers won Game 6. Go. Look at that. It's just.
- [54:48]
Sabrina Merchant
We should just go out. The McConnells are TJ from the Indiana Pacers and Megan from the Phoenix Mercury, who's only gotten to play one game, unfortunately, because she suffered an injury right away. Their dad's sister, also a WNBA head coach back in the day, Susan McConnell. Serio. So a lot of basketball blood in the McConnell family. But yeah, like Zena said, I Cannot remember. I cannot recommend the Interview with Tim McConnell Enough. It's great.
- [55:09]
Zena Kaida
It's so.
- [55:09]
Ben Pickman
Or just. Or just anything TJ McConnell related. Just put the tape off for seven and you'll learn a lot.
- [55:16]
Sabrina Merchant
All right. These siblings. So current WNBA player, current NBA player, were the first to play their W and NBA games in the same city at the same time. Time.
- [55:27]
Ben Pickman
This has to be the coffees. The coffees is my guess.
- [55:31]
Zena Kaida
Coffees.
- [55:31]
Sabrina Merchant
Yeah.
- [55:32]
Ben Pickman
Amir and Amir for the Los Angeles Clippers and Nia for the Sparks. I knew they were somewhere. They were gonna be somewhere in this exercise with Sabrina being LA based and. Yeah, of course. And this is them.
- [55:44]
Zena Kaida
All right, that's very cool.
- [55:46]
Sabrina Merchant
Okay, we've got another set of siblings played for the same college. Both led their conference in blocks.
- [55:52]
Ben Pickman
Same college and Boost led the conference in blocks.
- [55:55]
Sabrina Merchant
Blocks.
- [55:56]
Zena Kaida
Are these the Sobies? No.
- [56:01]
Ben Pickman
Did they play for the college at the same time?
- [56:03]
Sabrina Merchant
No, no, never. Conference in blocks. I don't think.
- [56:08]
Zena Kaida
Okay. Yeah. Okay.
- [56:09]
Ben Pickman
Do they play for the same time? No, different time.
- [56:13]
Sabrina Merchant
Not at the same time.
- [56:14]
Ben Pickman
Could. So this could be. Could. Could maybe be the Aguma case. I'm also sorry.
- [56:21]
Sabrina Merchant
I meant to say a male sibling. My apologies. Not the case. Oh, okay.
- [56:26]
Zena Kaida
Okay.
- [56:26]
Ben Pickman
O. Um, could this be the McGee siblings? I don't think they played at the same college.
- [56:33]
Sabrina Merchant
Oh, Imani, I am talking about WNBA players. There is no current McGee in the WNBA.
- [56:39]
Zena Kaida
That's true. Or in the NBA.
- [56:43]
Sabrina Merchant
Also true.
- [56:43]
Zena Kaida
Okay, Right. No. Shades of Javail.
- [56:47]
Sabrina Merchant
Forgot he was not in the league anymore.
- [56:49]
Zena Kaida
Right. Let's see. Ooh, this is tough.
- [56:53]
Ben Pickman
Led your conference in blocks.
- [56:56]
Zena Kaida
I. Yeah, Yeah, I think you got us.
- [57:00]
Sabrina Merchant
All right, well, this is the college that I went to. It is Elizabeth Williams and Mark Williams.
- [57:05]
Zena Kaida
Oh, of course. Yes.
- [57:10]
Sabrina Merchant
Part of a famous veto trade earlier this year, right?
- [57:14]
Zena Kaida
Oh, my gosh, yes. If you are an LA Lakers fan, Patuk University's finest. Dude, literally, there's LA Lakers and LA Clippers and LA all over this. Yes. Okay.
- [57:22]
Sabrina Merchant
We started with the McConnells. All right.
- [57:25]
Zena Kaida
Fair, fair, fair, fair, fair. What a fun game. Thank you, Sabrina. And I think that's gonna be all for today. As you all know, we drop twice a week, so join us back here on Friday. We'll have more of the best content around the wnba, keeping you up to date with everything that's going on. As always, before we go, please, like, subscribe all of the things. If there is any homework, this is your homework. Also, go read. But definitely do this because we want to get this out to as many ears and eyes and everyone as possible. So please reach out to us. Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, our emails, our socials. We'd love to hear from you guys. And you know, be nice. Shout out to everyone that's nice, disagrees with us and are nice. Love what we like and are nice. We love that too of course. Head over to our partner, the Yahoo Sports Hub for more content. Sports.yahoo.com women sports on behalf of the Athletic Ben and Sabrina, I'm Zena Keda thanking you for listening. We will see you next time. No Off Season is hosted by Zena Kada with Chantelle Jennings, Sabrina Merchant and Ben Pickman. It's produced by Tanika Burrell. Our executive producers are are Andrea B. Scott and Cassius Fleming. Our theme music is by Marcus Bagala. Monica Compton is our video editor. Shannon Ryan is Managing Editor of Women's Basketball at the Athletic. Jesse Burton is our head of audio and Tim McMaster is director of Audio operations. How can you free your team from time consuming office tasks? Amazon Business empowers leaders to not only streamline purchasing, but better support their teams. Smart business buying tools enable buyers to find and purchase items fast so they can focus on strategy and growth. It's time to free up your teams and focus on your future. Learn more about the technology, insights and Support available@AmazonBusiness.com as we head into the.
- [59:29]
Unknown
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