Why this Repeat of the Final Four Will Be Different

Summary

No Offseason: The Athletic Women’s Basketball Show
Episode: Why this Repeat of the Final Four Will Be Different
Date: March 31, 2026
Hosts: Zena Keita and Chantel Jennings

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Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into the 2026 Women’s NCAA Final Four, which, in a rare twist, repeats last year's field: UConn, UCLA, Texas, and South Carolina. Zena Keita and Chantel Jennings break down not just why these familiar teams are back, but how their journeys, rosters, and styles have grown—promising a very different set of matchups this time around. The hosts dissect each Elite Eight game, analyze key adjustments, highlight player developments, and preview the strategy chess matches ahead, all while keeping the discussion grounded in the personalities and narratives driving the sport.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Texas vs. Michigan: Experience Triumphs, Depth Shines

(02:18-15:25)

• Dominance starts early: Texas overwhelmed Michigan, 77-41, but early moments were briefly competitive.
• Game flow: “If you watched the first two plays of that game, you might have been like, oh, this is going to be competitive. And then all of a sudden, Texas made 11 of 12 field goal attempts to start the game. And it was just nearly... suffocating.” – Zena Kada (06:36)
• Michigan’s struggles: Hosts detail how Michigan’s inexperience led to 15 turnovers and only 23% shooting, missing their typical three-point output (2 of 15).
• Veteran guard play matters: “To have veteran guard play deep in March is so important. And Michigan has phenomenal guard play, but they’re sophomores.” – Chantel Jennings (07:41)
• Key moment: The discussion highlights an emotional scene as hometown senior Sarah Graves checks in and scores, with the whole arena (and teammate Madison Booker) celebrating her, demonstrating the team’s close-knit culture.
  • “Honestly, the best part of that is just how hype Madison Booker was for her, like on the sideline. No one was more excited in the arena than Madison Booker.” – Chantel Jennings (13:07)
• Texas’ depth: Even when star players struggled, the team had answers everywhere. “That’s how good this Texas team is and how they’ve reloaded in a way, even though they did lose three starters.” – Chantel Jennings (13:11)
• Leadership flip: Vic Schaefer, who called his team heartless weeks ago, now calls this their best basketball. The players, especially Rory Harmon, have stepped up as vocal and veteran leaders.

2. UCLA vs. Duke: Veterans Weather the Storm

(16:58-24:31)

• Scoreboard deception: UCLA’s 70-58 win over Duke looked comfortable, but the first half was fierce, with Duke forcing 12 turnovers and dominating the boards.
• Adjustment at halftime: “Third quarters as being such an important teams, because that is sort of the immediate response.” – Chantel Jennings (18:33)
• Lauren Betts’ dominance: Betts took control after halftime, sparking a 20-8 third quarter run.
• Angela Dugalic’s X-factor: Off the bench, Dugalic (15 pts, 30 min) provided steadiness and energy, allowing UCLA to right the ship midgame. “She feels like such an important piece of how this team got to the Final Four even though she hasn’t been a starter for them.” – Chantel Jennings (22:06)
• Veteran poise: “This is the key to what UCLA has in terms of advantages against pretty much everyone else in this tournament: veteranship.” – Zena Kada (23:18)
• Strategic preview: UCLA faces Texas next in a rematch of their only loss (from November); both teams have improved since, and the matchup of veteran guards—Kiki Rice vs. Rory Harmon—will be pivotal. “I picked UCLA to win because I do think there’s going to be a motivating factor of this is their one loss they had on the year.” – Chantel Jennings (24:31)

3. UConn vs. Notre Dame: Too Many Weapons

(31:44-41:10)

• Notre Dame’s defensive plan: ND effectively limited UConn superstars Sarah Strong and Azzi Fudd early, but UConn’s roster depth proved insurmountable.
• The role of depth: “What Notre Dame did really, really well…they really got into Sarah Strong so that she wasn’t able to do what she wanted to do. They really got into AZ Fudd…But that’s the problem with UConn is that they have so many different weapons.” – Chantel Jennings (32:34)
• Blanca Quinones’ emergence: Former pro in Italy, Quinones came up big, scoring 12 early points and relentlessly attacking. “It was Blanca Quinones that felt unstoppable, like she was getting into the paint. She might not know exactly where she's going, but she's gonna find a way.” – Zena Kada (36:07)
• Notre Dame’s lack of depth: Missing Olivia Miles, ND relied heavily on Hannah Hidalgo, who dazzled (202 steals on the season!), but couldn’t carry the offense alone.
• Fun player comparison: “Stephen Curry is very similar...when he's feeling it, he's gonna do the dances, he's gonna do the little gestures. And so that's what I love about Hannah's game…” – Zena Kada (41:10)

4. South Carolina vs. TCU: Whack-a-Mole Offense, Relentless Size

(43:03-46:21)

• SC’s depth of options: Multiple bench players and freshmen like Agat McKerr step up—“It was a whack a mole. At one point you’re like, okay, I got Makir. Holy crap. If you didn’t know Agat McKir, she let you know in this game.” – Zena Kada (43:04)
• TCU’s offensive limitation: With all offense funneled through just two (Marta Suarez, Olivia Miles), SC simply neutralized Suarez (9 pts) and ran away with it.
• Injury note: Miles suffered a late-game calf injury, but the game was out of reach.
• Threes from the bench: Tessa Johnson’s off-the-bench sharpshooting (three threes in a row) was a killer run.

5. Big Picture: Why This Final Four Will Be Different

(49:06-54:08)

• Coaching chess match: Both semifinals pit genius coaches with elite, multi-option rosters against each other.
• Better teams than last year: “All four of these teams are better. And the way that those Final Four games ended last year, neither one being very competitive in the second half—I do not see that happening.” – Chantel Jennings (51:56)
• Revenge and rematch: UCLA gets a chance at vengeance for their only loss, UConn and South Carolina replay last year’s title game (81-59 UConn) with Staley chasing redemption.
• Sophomore surge: “This sophomore class as a whole is just so good…I think on the right side of the bracket, you’ve got these veteran led teams…” – Chantel Jennings (53:27)

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Texas’ win over Michigan:
  “They shot 23% from the floor. 2 of 15 from 3…that's not gonna work.” – Zena Kada (09:51)
  “To have veteran guard play deep in March is so important.” – Chantel Jennings (07:41)

• On team culture:
  “Honestly, the best part of that is just how hype Madison Booker was for her, like on the sideline. No one was more excited in the arena than Madison Booker. Like, she's about to jump out of her seat for her friend. Those are the moments. That's really, really cool.” – Chantel Jennings (13:07–13:11)

• On UCLA’s resilience:
  “This is the key to what UCLA has in terms of advantages against pretty much everyone else in this tournament: veteranship. Folks that have been there before, people that can respond to the moment.” – Zena Kada (23:18)

• On Notre Dame’s Hannah Hidalgo:
  “She will rip your heart out from your chest and then hold it in front of you and be like, do you want this back? No, I’m gonna take it down the court and I’m gonna put it in the basket.” – Zena Kada (41:10)

• On the Final Four repeat:
  “...this is the best possible product of basketball that we're going to see on the floor. These matchups, how we're going to see these break down, the fact that all of these teams are somehow better…All four of these teams are better.” – Chantel Jennings (51:56)

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Key Matchup Previews and What to Watch

• Texas vs. UCLA: Can Texas’ defense again disrupt UCLA’s veterans? Will Jordan Lee rebound from a bad game? Watch Rory Harmon vs. Kiki Rice.
• South Carolina vs. UConn: Each side boasts weapons beyond their stars. Can SC’s size and bench hold up against UConn’s relentless multi-pronged attack? Look for coaching adjustments and in-game counters.

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Final Thoughts

Both hosts agree: while the names are familiar, the playing fields and stakes are utterly different this year. Veteran teams have grown, star sophomores have exploded, and the tactical firepower on display ensures that these will be nail-biting, dramatic games full of storylines for fans new and old alike.

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Next up:

• Final Four coverage from Phoenix
• WNBA expansion draft talk (Comets move from Connecticut to Houston!)
• McDonald’s All-American Game shout-out (Ari Chambers hosting; watch for future stars)

Don’t miss the livestreams and further analysis later in the week.

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Transcript

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[Zena Kada]

Hello everyone, and welcome to no Off Season presented by Sam's Club. I'm Zena Kada.

[Shantel Jennings]

And I'm Shantel Jennings.

[Zena Kada]

And today on the show, the Elite Eight is officially now the Final Four. UConn, UCLA, Texas, South Carolina. Yeah, it sounds familiar because it happened last year. Just different matchups. Of course, it's all chalk, baby. But yes, there, there's still a Lot to unpack, so let's dive right into it. Chantelle has a flight in four hours, folks. She is putting in the hard work for us. Burning the midnight oil. But Chantel, I want to break up these elite eight games down the left side and the right side of the bracket, joining up the teams who are going to end up meeting in the Final four. So first up, let's go with the right side, top to bottom, Texas versus Michigan. This game ended with Texas scoring 77 points, Michigan having 41. The Big Ten powerhouse Michigan going up against the Texas program that I would say is surging in the sec. They've been playing excellent basketball since they left the conference tournament. You looked at the way that the first quarter went and Chantel, you're immediately thinking, ooh, we are underestimating what Michigan's defense might do to Texas. They looked a little bit discombobulated. The ball bounced off Maddie a little bit. I mean, yeah, I'm definitely underestimating it there or under describing it because, I mean, the ball was bouncing off Madison Booker. The turnovers are all over the place. Like, Michigan looked like they could compete for a while early in this game. And then Kyla Oldacre started. There's a. There's one particular play where I think it was in the second quarter, it might have been Kyla Oldraker is standing at the three point line and the crowd is begging her to shoot. She is not being really guarded. And she ends up taking it inside or she gave it away, gets it back. She gave it to Rory Hartman. She gets it back on the move in the middle of the paint, puts up an and one and it kind of just burst open the offense and everything that was going for Texas, but there was way more than that. Chantel, what'd you see in the way this game unfolded?

[Shantel Jennings]

When you said discombobulated, I thought you meant Michigan. Like it was 9:22 after the first quarter.

[Zena Kada]

It was. I'm talking about the very first, like two minutes of the game. For like two seconds. You're like, oh, Texas looks right, look weird for a second. And then that went away very quickly in the first quarter.

[Shantel Jennings]

Yeah, I mean, it was Michigan. To me, it's sort of coming into this game, it struck me as like, Texas has been here. Yes, they lost three starters off that team last year that went to the Final Four. But like, this is a veteran team, this is an experienced team. Rory Hartman is going to like get everyone in line and Michigan is new money. Like, they haven't really been here yet when they were back in the elite eight in 2022, like, none of these players remember that moment. Like, that feels like such a different era. That was Nas Hillman senior year. They were with a group that was like, this is our last shot at this. We have to do it now. And right now it sort of feels like this is a very different vibe. Like, Michigan is building. And so you walked into this and it was like getting into that situation, if both teams were going to be a bit discombobulated, you obviously have to think that Texas is going to be the team that figures it out a bit more quickly, because it's like, they've been here. They know how to do this. They know how to reorient themselves in this situation. It was a home game for them, basically. I mean, it was like 95% Texas fans in that arena. And so honestly. And it just felt like Michigan was pressing. Like, every shot felt like they were aiming, not just shooting. And obviously, you know, credit to Texas is length and size and athleticism on the inside. Like, they did not make it easy. Nothing. Everything Michigan got was contested. And yeah, it was just Texas. I felt like, you know, the second quarter was pretty ugly, but really, it never really felt to me like, oh, Michigan is. Is gonna make a run here. Because it was just sort of like every time they even sort of started to make it interesting early on, like, Texas just put their foot down.

[Zena Kada]

Yeah, I was. I was waiting for you. I was setting it up that way, Chantelle, because I wanted you to tell me what happened, because then Texas went on to have a near perfect first quarter. If you watched the first two plays of that game, you might have been like, oh, this is going to be competitive. And then all of a sudden, Texas made 11 of 12 field goal attempts to start the game. And it was just nearly. It was suffocating. It was suffocating. Rory Harmon was excellent. Maddie Booker was excellent. But it was really, as you mentioned, the defense. Olivia Olson couldn't get her footing. It felt like Mila Holloway was. Couldn't get. Find a way through the trees. And the size and the physicality of the point of attack defense for Texas, it was just. They were pretty excellent. And then Michigan managed to kind of come back, find a little bit of opportunities offensively in that second quarter, but it was too late. It felt like. Now, Chatel, if I remember correctly, this was. Was this not your big upset?

[Shantel Jennings]

Well, let's. Let's, you know, Maya Culpa, this. Just from the start, my big upsets were Fairfield Over Notre Dame. That one did great. That killed my bracket early. And then Michigan over Texas. So, yeah, no, my, my upsets didn't really pan out very well for me. So no, I think this is Michigan over Texas was kind of one of those things where it's like, if it happens, I look brilliant. But nine times out of 10, I think Texas wins that game. Like, they're just the more veteran team. We've talked about it a million times on this podcast. To have veteran guard play deep in March is so important. And Michigan has phenomenal guard play, but they're sophomores. It's a lot of sophomores. Brooke Quarles, Daniels is a senior, but Rory Harmon, you know, it was one of those things. And in my head I was thinking, If Michigan hits 10 or 11 three pointers, which they've done this season, right, you know this. If you can pick up 30, 33 points from the three point line, and Texas is not a team that's going to do that, you can adjust for the fact that you don't have someone that can go one on one with Brea Cunningham, with Kyla Oldacre, right? You can, you can sort of fudge those margins a bit so that if you're picking up more points on the three point line, you're going to be okay. But that was obviously not the situation. Texas's defense was so, so good. Michigan couldn't hit any again. It just felt like everything was. They were just aiming everything. I was joking with Cameron while we were sitting sideline like Gino's gonna come back and start talking about these rims again. Because it felt like everything for Michigan was like hitting the rim in four, four places and then falling out. And so it was just, you know, I think this is assuming Michigan brings everyone back. This is something they build on and they look back at this as sort of that next step that the program took. Because this is the first Elite Eight Michigan has been to where it wasn't like, we're happy to be here. It was like we belong here and we're wanting to go to the Final Four. And that's the plan. They were just not the better team on the floor tonight.

[Zena Kada]

No, they shot 23% from the floor. 2 of 15 from 3, as you mentioned. You know, this is a team that can make 10, 11 threes a game and they're also a team that can come back, but it's really hard to do that when you got 15 turnovers and you just have to have more

[Shantel Jennings]

turnovers than field goals. So that's not gonna happen.

[Zena Kada]

That's not gonna work. But the good news for Michigan is Olivia Olson, Silas Swords and Mila Holloway are sophomores. And yes, they combined for nine and 40 from the fourth.

[Shantel Jennings]

Yikes.

[Zena Kada]

That wasn't great. However, they're going to learn and they're going to have this opportunity to be able to see what that feels like going into the game. But for Texas, what I love most about their, the way that they executed this game. Everyone was involved, right? Like, a lot of times you look at, we're going to talk about tcu, South Carolina and how that game ended up, but you look at their Sweet 16 game in TCU, and I remember a comment being made about that team of, oh, well, you know how easy it is. Now the game plan is against tcu. You shut down Olivia Miles, you shut down Martas Suarez. There's not much else there. Texas is obviously one of those teams just like these other four number one seeds or these other three number one seeds that you get the opportunity to get Madison Booker that easy short, you know, baseline jumper because there's off ball action happening with Jordan Lee, and you're so scared that Jordan Lee might come off a flare screen and, and shoot a three that, you know, Olivia Olson just lets Maddie go to the short corner because she's concerned about this off ball action. That is how they get their, their. Their big, their big scores open. And that is. That's very, that's gonna be very interesting to see just how much that's gonna be viable against ucla, but we'll talk about that in a little bit. Any last thoughts on just Texas and their overall dominance in this game? And particularly, I don't know if you saw the Sarah Graves coming in, hitting that snapshot at the end. Oh, I got emotional. Like, is that weird? Like Ryan Ruko talking about the last time you're going to see your kids play and Rebecca Lobo, I thought to myself, like, I wonder if my mom even knew the moment she realized that she was never going to see me play basketball again in a game. And seeing Sarah Graves hit that shot. Oh, it wasn't the Duke shot from the men's side, the UConn shot. Excuse me, against Duke. But it was pretty special in my heart.

[Shantel Jennings]

Yeah, it was. I mean, the whole arena got on their feet. Like 9,000 people are standing and cheering, and it's like, are they cheering because Sarah's coming in or because Rory's going out? I don't know.

[Zena Kada]

Right, right, right, right, right.

[Shantel Jennings]

It was like, hard to say exactly what is happening on tv.

[Zena Kada]

It was very clearly, it was for Sarah coming in and the opportunity for her to see.

[Shantel Jennings]

Yeah, I think. I think it was. She's from Fort Worth. Like, this is her hometown. And so there's all, um, maybe not 9,000 people there, but it sort of feels like she is America's personality hire. The Longhorns personality hire. At this point, everyone's sort of getting behind her in that way. And you know, instantly everyone just wanted. Everyone on the floor was like, trying to get her a bucket. And so that was, I agree, emotional. It's sort of those, like, heartwarming moments in college sports. And honestly, the. The best part of that is just like how hype Madison Booker was for her, like, on the sideline. No one was more excited in the arena than Madison Booker. Like, she's about to jump.

[Zena Kada]

She.

[Shantel Jennings]

Oh, my God, like, out of her seat.

[Zena Kada]

Yes.

[Shantel Jennings]

For. For her friend. Like, those are the moments. That's really, really cool. And I think you can get an idea of the personality of this team and the vibe of this team. I think just to go back to your point about the depth, like, I think that is one of the strengths of this Final Four grouping that maybe wasn't as true a year ago is that maybe each team has their main players, their top scores, but the depth from 1 through 6, 1 through 7, 1 through 8, is different. It's there in a way that maybe wasn't there as much last year for some teams or wasn't as prevalent for some teams. Like, Jordan Lee had a bad game against Michigan. She went to have 17. And afterwards Vic Schaefer was like, that's never happened before. I don't expect it to ever happen again. Like, she got it out of her system and we're good. And it's like you can have a player like Jordan Lee, who is such an integral part of that team, have a night like that where it's like, holy crap, how did she shoot that poorly? And they still win by that margin. And it's just sort of like that's. That's how good this Texas team is and how they've reloaded in a way, even though they did lose three starters, that. It's like one of your key players, your best 3 point threat can go oh of 8 from beyond the arc. And it's like, we're going to roll. We're going to win by 36. We're okay.

[Zena Kada]

I want to call out Roy Harmon's 13 assists because this is what she's been doing. All season long, incorporating her teammates and such justice. Carlton at one point, stands at the three point line, turns around, realizes nobody's guarding her, just puts the ball up, hits threes like that's the energy that was happening out out there. And also shout out to, you know, I'm big on bigs Kyla Oldacre and Bria Cunningham. That was awesome. I think the size overwhelmed Michigan just as much. This is kind of crazy. I was reading some quotes from Vic Schaefer and also some recaps around the Internet. Vic Schaefer had just talked about this team not having any heart just a few weeks ago when they lost against Vanderbilt. Now he's saying this is the best basketball that they've been playing. Thoughts on that?

[Shantel Jennings]

I mean, he talked about it in the post game that just, you know, the day after that, it was after the Vanderbilt loss, he called them out for not having heart, for not having toughness. And it was really Madison Booker that kind of pulled this team together. It was Rory Harmon's leadership of Madison Booker's voice and sort of how she stepped up for this team right now. And I think you're seeing that and it's everyone sort of holding one another accountable in a way. And it sounds so cliche and annoying and I get that. But it's like they really are sort of, you know, it is like committee leadership on that team. But Rory is 1,000% sort of this grizzled veteran leader who has seen everything and is Vic Schaefer on the floor for them because she has been there for five years and nothing faces her. And I think a lot of these teams that we're seeing in the Final Four, it's like the personality of the team is that of their best player. And, you know, I think the best player on this team is Madison Booker. And to that end, she is a pro. She is serious. She is great at basketball. She's also really goofy. And like, if you just like watch her during the game and on the sidelines, like, she's always the first one dancing. She's always like, she like made a face at Vic today during the game. Like, she is like chopping it up with him. And so I think there's this, like, lightness and a seriousness to this Texas team that really, they get from Madison that, yeah, it's. It's like a relaxed. Because they have been here before, 1,000%. It's really, really impressive.

[Zena Kada]

I love it. Okay, let's talk about the second game on the right side of the bracket and that is UCLA and Duke. I ain't gonna lie to you, Chantelle.

[Sam's Club Announcer]

That final score, 70 to 58 in

[Zena Kada]

UCLA's favor, that does not tell the story of this game. Okay? This was a game in which Duke made UCLA in the first half, from their defensive intensity look average. They made them turn the ball over. They, UCLA looked like they couldn't score inside. They UCLA looked like they couldn't rebound the ball defensively. I mean, Duke was on the boards heavy, and there were so many different players that were stepping up and making tough shots. But if you didn't know about Tyina Mayer from Duke, you now know about her, especially after what she was doing in the first half of this game. But UCLA gets forced into 12 turnovers in the first half, giving 16 points off those turnovers overall. That first half looked. Made UCLA look human. And then the second half reminded you, hold, hold, hold, hold, hold, hold, hold, hold, hold on. Y' all heard of Lauren Betts? Just in case you didn't know, there is a woman that is six, seven in the middle of the paint. And in the first half, Betts had eight points. And then the third quarter was hers entirely. What did you see that you loved about the turnaround for ucla?

[Shantel Jennings]

I mean, I think you look at third quarters as being such an important teams, because that is sort of the immediate response. That is. And again, all of these teams are very, very good. They are elite teams. But we've seen stretches from all of these teams in the Final Four where you're, like, biting your nails and you're like, I don't know how I feel about this team. Like, even Texas against Michigan, they went, like, six minutes without scoring in the second quarter.

[Zena Kada]

Yeah.

[Shantel Jennings]

And it was like, what is going on here? Same idea where you're looking at a team like UCLA that has six players who are potentially going to be drafted in the first round of the WNBA draft this year. And you're saying two of your point guards, Gabriella Hawke, is as a guard, wing, like, you guys should not be turning the ball over like this against anyone. And yet, as you said, I think they finished with 18 turnovers. They had 12 in the first half. Like, it was just not what you want to see. And that gets you wondering what's going on. Get back into halftime, regroup, figure out what's going on. Get everyone on the same page, come back out, remind yourselves how you got to this point, why you are so good. And yes, a big part of that is your 6, 7, center in the middle. Get her the ball and let her go to work. And so I think that the 20 to 9 third quarter was such a huge moment for them, or 20 to 8, excuse me, 28. Just reasserting that dominance and then that sort of gives you the cushion going into the fourth quarter, but cleaning up the turnovers, reasserting your dominance, getting the ball to Lauren and then locking down defensively, holding Duke, which is a very good offensive team. I think a lot of times we talk about Duke and we think about defensively Carol Lawson, but this is a good offensive team. We've seen them hit huge shots. For them to only score eight points in the third quarter at the same time that they're going in to halftime ready to sort of, you know, regroup themselves. For UCLA to come out lockdown defensively and hold them to eight points in the third quarter was also equally impressive.

[Zena Kada]

Huge they get. It was 13 to 4 in I believe that first four minutes and they had taken the lead at the end of the third quarter and there was about two minutes left in the third. And I remember writing down in my notes like I was watching this, it's like UCLA finally takes this lead. But is this now going to be like, is this going to be a back and forth. Does Duke have enough at this point? And at this point you're also seeing Toby Fournier starting to get in foul trouble. There was just a little bit of fatigue seemed to be setting in. I'm curious what you saw the adjustment for UCLA outside of throwing the ball into Lauren Betts, because that is always going to be the moniker while she is still playing with the UCLA jersey on. I saw Duke in the first half really hard in passing lanes and they were so in the jerseys of UCLA guards. And it was in that moment, you know, Sabrina and I talked about this in our livestream, how big the Duke guards are actually made. You saw it very vividly in the first half, just how their size actually balances out with the fact that Bets is huge inside. And that's great, but you can't get the ball inside if the person in front of you is making it incredibly difficult. What did you see outside of them not getting being able to get the ball in to Bets and then changing that in the second half. What were some other adjustments you saw from from ucla?

[Shantel Jennings]

Well, I think we just need to highlight Angela Dugalie chair. Like this is a player who again could be a first round draft pick who is coming off the bench for UCLA. They didn't go particularly deep. They went seven players deep, but she had 15 points for UCLA. And she is a player. I really, really like her game. 15 points in 30 minutes. Not great shooting from deep, which is a little rare for her, but she was 7 of 13. She got inside, she drew some fouls, six rebounds, four assists, two steals. Like she is a player that can just instant offense off the bench, instant size and length. And I think she brings that energy and to sort of know that you have that consistent force. And again, she's older, she's veteran, she's been there before, she is steady. This whole team is really, really steady. But you know, when there is sort of that uncertainty happening on the floor. Angela is a player that you can bring in who is just steady Eddie and like holds things together. She's not phased by anything she's played for at such a high level this season that, you know, I think she feels like such an important piece of how this team got to the Final Four even though she hasn't been a starter for them this season.

[Zena Kada]

It's. This is the key to what UCLA has in terms of advantages against pretty much everyone else in this tournament is veteranship. Folks that have been there before, people that can respond to the moment.

[Shantel Jennings]

Definitely the oldest team in this Final Four field.

[Zena Kada]

Exactly. The oldest team in this Final Four. You think about Charlize Ledger Walker, who also in that second half, I think settled down, ran that offense incredibly smoothly. She had game high six assists as well. You put Lauren Betts in, you put Angela Dugligen, you put Charlize Ledger Walker, Gabrielle Haka started going to the basket a little bit more in the second half like it was. It felt as if everyone remembered who they were in that second half. But now let's think about how this matches up with Texas because I'm going to tell you my technical upset. Even though, yes, these are number one, were seeds going up against each other, UCLA is technically a higher number one seed than Texas. I chose Texas over UCLA in my bracket. But I wanted, I want to get your perspective on how you think these two teams may match up.

[Shantel Jennings]

Yeah, well, we saw them play back in late November. Texas won 76, 65. That was a game where I guess similar to the Stu game, like Texas was able to turn UCLA over, which is going to be a huge key to this game as it is for every game. But like that Texas defense is really, really challenging. So they turned UCLA over 20 times. Charlie Sledger Walker had six of them. They only played six players in that game. So again, legs get a little bit tired and when you're Going against a Texas defense that, like, you know, I had my story tonight about Texas. I compared playing against Rory Harmon to basically like a human treadmill. Like, if she is guarding you just on a treadmill, like, yeah, she makes you work so hard, but every player does. Like, Texas's defense is just so, so tough and in your face. And so I think the fact that UCLA has already seen it this year, there's going to be less of a surprise. But I think both of these teams have gotten a lot better from that point until now. And so I, I picked UCLA to win because I do think there's going to be a motivating factor of this is their one loss they had on the year. The reason why UCLA probably did not get the number one overall seed is because of that loss in November. Like, it comes back to that. UConn was undefeated, had fewer quad one wins, but UCLA had that loss to Texas, and that's what it kept coming back to. And I don't think the observable component for Yukon trumps UCLA is scheduling if UCLA doesn't have that loss. And so I think there's going to be a little bit extra motivation. I think that that will kind of push them through a little bit. But also, like, I watched Texas tonight and they looked really damn good. Like, in person, they have great size, great speed at every position. They can guard you so well. They have options off the bench, and every player can kind of do something different. And again, I trust Vic when he says Jordan Lee isn't going to have another 2 for 17 night. Like, it doesn't matter that she was, oh, of eight in the elite Eight, like, Final Four. She could. She could be much, much better. And I think that's what everyone on her team expects. And also, again, how many times we have to talk about veteran guard play. Obviously there's a ton of veteran guards on UCLA's team. I think that's what's going to make this matchup so wonderful, is that you do have so much veteran guard play here. And I count Madison Booker in this, like, veteran ness. Even though, like, she's a young Jun in my mind. But she's still, you know, she has played so much that there's just so much experience on the floor. But like, the Kiki Rice, Rory Harmon matchup, like, it's going to be excellent.

[Zena Kada]

It's going to be crazy. I'm so excited for, like, how both of these teams are going to play chess against each other, particularly, you know, that the number one way to beat UCLA or to at least get a little bit of a leverage on them is when Lauren Betts is not on the floor. And the way that Rory Harmon, the way that Madison Booker comes off screens, whether she's pulling up in the mid range going into the basket, and also the size of Kyla Oldacre inside, these type of players, especially on the offensive glass, can end up getting more bets in a bit of trouble if she's having to fight them off. There's going to be a big, I think, task for the guards to be on the glass and be able to box out their guys before they're going down the other way on the basket. But as you mentioned about Jordan Lee. Yeah, I think we all feel pretty confident that someone that shoots almost 58% from the field is not going to go for age again in.

[Shantel Jennings]

She's got four blocks in that game against ucla. Like she is a defensive ace. Like she is so, so good. All of, I mean, Texas defensively is just a nightmare if you're playing against them. But, but she's really good defensively.

[Zena Kada]

Yeah. Oh my gosh. And then, you know, Harmon had 26 points in that matchup as well. And we typically talk about her assists. The fact that she was able to find her own offense in that matchup is huge. What my case for Texas, you deny bets early, get her into foul trouble and force other people to beat them and basically keep the game on the perimeter. You got an opportunity and if you get into the minds, the mindset, you know, gotta beat them psychologically, I think because of what happened last year, you know, what happened last year to UCLA in the Final Four, maybe try to get them in the, in the mindset, get out early, see if they can recover. I think Texas might have this because they don't have that pressure and they also already won a game. They know that they can do this. Okay, I know we've talked a lot. We gotta take a break here because

[Sam's Club Announcer]

we gotta talk about the other half of the bracket.

[Zena Kada]

When we come back,

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it's finally March and you know what that means. Bracket season, baby. Picture it. You're hosting the big tourney game, you've got your jersey, you're looking good, and now all you need is, well, everything else to host. No sweat though, because you're a Sam's Club member. In one trip, you say yes to grabbing everything you need and to getting it all for unbelievably low prices, plates, cups, tables, chairs, pizza, wings, snacks, sweets and the ultimate three pointer. A big screen tv.

[Zena Kada]

Heck, you could even get it delivered.

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[Zena Kada]

So even if you don't win your

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[Zena Kada]

Okay, Shantel, let's keep it moving. Other side of the bracket, there's already all these storylines, right? We end up on the right side of the bracket where UCLA gets this opportunity to avenge their one loss of the season against Texas. Well, guess who else gets to avenge a loss? And it's not necessarily one from the season. It's one from one championship ago, and that is South Carolina and UConn. But we got to talk a little bit about how they got there first. And there was a game between UConn and Notre Dame. And very similarly to the Duke UCLA game, you saw Notre Dame push UConn a little bit. I want to know what did Notre Dame expose early for UConn in terms of this is a game that's their team. That's gettable.

[Shantel Jennings]

Yeah, I mean, I think you say that they're gettable and it's like in theory, yes, right? In theory, yes, they are gettable. But what Notre Dame did really, really well, and they are a team that didn't have as much depth as the other teams that we've seen advance out of the elite eight, they really got into Sarah strong so that she wasn't able to do what she wanted to do. They really got into AZ fud so that she wasn't able to do what she wanted to do. But that's the problem with UConn is that they have so many different weapons and I think the role players and sort of the everyone who is at UConn what they do is so elite like Ashlyn Shade and KK Arnold maybe didn't have the most eye popping stat lines, but they're huge. Kaylee Heckle, you know, maybe not the most eye popping stat line but like when she comes in off the bench, what she's able to do for them and bring for to them defensively in her size and length, really important. And again you shut down AZ and Sarah early, which not exactly the first time we've seen that. It also happened in the Sweet 16 game that they were a little bit slower to start. Blanca Quinones, just this player who's been playing professionally in Italy for five years. You know what sort of a very Yukon thing to have that when your national player of the year and the best shooter in the country aren't at their best. You have a player who's been a professional for five years in Italy, you know, just happens to be able to score 12 first quarter points for you. And so I think it's. They have these weapons and because you can't guard Sarah one on one because AZ takes so much attention on the perimeter, your defense gets stretched in a way and they're focused on different, you know, areas of the floor that things just open up and UConn has enough playmakers and facilitators that they can make other things happen. So even though it wasn't necessarily falling for Ashlyn, even though it wasn't necessarily happening in the half quarter and transition for kk like those things can happen. Which is where I think this is going to happen. Be really, really interesting because you just have so many weapons for them and then you get into the third quarter or and Gino's like, why don't we bring Janet L. Alfie off the bench? She's six foot five. Like let's bring her in immediately. Gets like four rebounds second quarter, first quarter. I think they brought in Ali Zieble off the bench. She hit 10 three pointers for them earlier this season. Like she's someone that isn't necessarily number one on the scouting report for anyone when they're looking at UConn. But the moment she steps into the game, you need to respect her three point shot. And that stretches defenses even more. And so you have all of these players for UConn who are either elite, like AZ, like Sarah, like Blanca, or players who just really do their roles elitely. And so the way that all of this fits together is, you know, I mean, you've, you've. I'm sure you've had to game plan against teams like this before. It's not fun. It's not fun being on the other

[Zena Kada]

end of that because it's relentless. It's exhausting. It is defeating it can be demoralizing. And I feel like that's what happened, particularly in that third quarter because Notre Dame, even though they went down in the first quarter after, you know, UConn pretty much bounced back quickly from, I think it was Cassandra Prosper got the first bucket, then Vanessa De Jesus got a three. And so, you know, you. Notre Dame is rolling a little bit and it felt like the upset would be a, you know, could be alive, similar to what you felt even with Michigan in that first two minutes or two seconds, it felt like. Or Duke in that first half. And then UConn reminded themselves, yes, we are UConn. They get 11 of the next 13 points. They take an eight point lead in the first quarter. Then that second quarter happened. And what happened? Hannah Dalgo, she puts in some buckets and you're feeling excited again. But as you mentioned, it was Blanca Quinones that felt unstoppable, like she was getting into the paint. We've seen her all season long. It's kind of like she's the wild version of Sarah Strong right. She is just gonna go downhill. She's got such speed. She might not know exactly where she's going, but she's gonna find a way. She's got like a magnet for the basket and she's going to try and get down there and it's going to end up putting some folks in foul trouble because they don't really know what to expect. And I think that is a little bit of what you saw her being able to get to the line and be able to hit some shots there. But ultimately Notre Dame did not have enough offense. And it's so funny because Chantel, as I'm watching TCU play South Carolina, I. I'm literally sitting here thinking, man, imagine if Olivia Miles was still beside Hannah Hidalgo, if the attention wasn't so laser focused on Hidalgo. There wasn't enough from what you know, Notre Dame was doing. And whenever Hidalgo wasn't hitting her shots, it just everything blossomed for UConn while everything folded for Notre Dame.

[Shantel Jennings]

Yeah, and I think, you know, Notre Dame got to this point, so much of their defense generates their offense. Like Hannah Hidalgo is so fun to watch on the defensive end of the floor. And I think had they beaten Yukon, like that would have been such a moment for Hannah Hidalgo and for Notre Dame moving forward that I think it would have sort of been this, like, made for TV movie almost that would have carried over into next year in a way that, you know, I still think that could happen. I think people are going to travel to see Hannah had all go play next season potentially in a way that we've past with like Juju with Caitlyn. Like people are showing up to watch this show player play just because she. She creates so many problems for opponents. And it was like every time and Yukon got rattled, every time a player had the ball, it was like they were looking over their shoulder like, where is Hannah? Where is Hannah? Where is Hannah? She's just going to jump out of nowhere and take the ball from me. And it, like, it can be kind of demoralizing because I think passing lanes seem open and then surprise, they're not. And so I think they just needed a little bit more. And this is a team that only had three players coming off of last year's team. They graduated so many players, they lost so many players to the portal. The fact that they got to this point having added nine new players and Notre Dame is in sort of an interesting position and that because of how transfers work for them and academics and how courses transfer in and credits and all of that, that they really can only go after grad transfers. And so there's a benefit in that, in that you're getting these older, experienced players, but you're only getting them for one year. And so it's like this group that you have together for one year and you have that urgency and you have that sense, but there's less chemistry. And so I think that's really why we saw them peak towards the end of the year. But, you know, they just didn't have quite enough to get over that hump. And you wondered if they had one more score, one more ball handler. You know, Vanessa DeJesus moved into this point guard role so that Hannah could play off ball a bit more. But if you had someone who is, you know, a bit more prototypical in that position, maybe they could have had enough. Maybe if they had One more three point shooter. All of these maybes, right? That's. That's the game we play in March. But of course, no, I mean, like, at one point, you know, Hannah Hidalgo is just like watching Kaylee heckle dribble down the floor. And I was like, oh, my gosh, she's just gonna steal her lunch money and be gone. Like, it was just the way she stares.

[Zena Kada]

She's all over the place.

[Shantel Jennings]

Yeah, she just stares down opponents and you're like, well, it's over. Thanks for showing up.

[Zena Kada]

Right. And I want to give Hidalgo her credit because she put on a show for us. And I do appreciate the players that understand the moment of not only obviously they're playing basketball and they're super excited about it, but it's also the energy of, you know, I think the very first, it might have been an Anne one that Hannah gets in the game in the first quarter, she turns to the crowd and starts going and gets animated. And you're just like, that is what we come for. That is the drama that we want. And Hidalgo, she gave her all in this game. I mean, she ends up 22 points.

[Shantel Jennings]

I don't even know if it's like she's playing to the crowd, though. Like, I genuinely feel like she's in this bub of just like, intensity that it's like it just explodes out of

[Zena Kada]

her, you know, as someone that covers the warriors, the Golden State warriors in the Bay and watching Stephen Curry, where Stephen Curry is someone that is a maniac, right? Like, he is a. He's maniacal about the way that he likes to play basketball. And he is also very. Similarly, there's quite a few. I would say Sarah Strong is one. Hannah Dalgo is one, too. These Baby Face Assassins, these people that, you know, you look at them and you're kind of like, aw, Hannah, so sweet. And they will rip your heart out from your chest and then hold it in front of you and be like, do you want this back? No, I'm gonna take it down the court and I'm gonna put it in the basket. Like, that is. That's how Hannah plays in the same way. And so. But there's also this factor of, like, you're not necessarily playing to the crowd. I do not think that she's doing it for attention or anything like that, but it's part of her game and she knows not to hide that, not to reserve that. Right. And I think that's what I. And I think Stephen Curry is very similar to that, that when he's Feeling it. He's gonna do the dances, he's gonna do the little gestures. And so that's what I love about Hannah's game. And it's. I mean, I also wanna put this out here for what, you know, what it's worth. Set the ACC and Notre Dame record for points in a single season. Became the only player in NCAA history, men's or women's, to record over 200 steals in a season. She ends up with 202. Wild. Wild. Okay, let's talk about this other game that happened. Tcu, South Carolina, another game that I think very similarly. There just wasn't enough on one side of the game versus the other side. Just being stacked with talent. And you. You. It's just a. What is it? What's that game where you just, like, hit all the heads that are coming out?

[Shantel Jennings]

Oh, gosh.

[Zena Kada]

Whack a mole. It's a whack a mole. It's a whack a mole for when it comes to South Carolina, who can step up. And even in this game, it was a whack a mole. At one point, you're like, okay, I got makir. Holy crap. If you didn't know Agat McKir was she let you know in this game. And then it was like, oh, Tessa Johnson can't miss. Great. Like, it was. It was so many different ways in which, you know, of course, Joyce Edwards was ridiculous offensively and defensively. There were so many whack a mole type of players that popped up against tcu. What was TCU missing in this game that they ended up losing against South Carolina?

[Shantel Jennings]

Well, I think just more scoring options. Right. Like, we saw this in their Sweet 16 win over Virginia that Marta Suarez and Olivia Miles are such a vital part of this offense. They scored or assisted on every single bucket they had against Virginia. Like, that is wild. So you think about when you have players where it's. They are that important to what they do offensively, and I think other teams have that as well, but they have more than two. And I think there are other good players on that TCU roster, but it's like, if you can take one of them out of their element or, you know, bump one a little bit, and that's what happened. Marta Suarez had nine points against South Carolina. And you could look at that equation and, like, I don't want to distill it down too simply, but it's like, if you can. If you can keep one of those two players in single digits, you're going to give yourself a really Good shot to win. And I think that's what South Carolina did. Like. Olivia is going to get what she gets, but if you can hold Marta under 10, take those odds. And worked out well for South Carolina.

[Zena Kada]

It was a really easy game plan, especially with every single outlet in America talking about the fact that all of TCU's points that were scored in that Sweet 16 game were either scored or assisted on by Olivia Miles and Martis Suarez. So you're immediately thinking, oh, let's just take one or two of those out. And what's unfortunate that is in this game, you see Olivia Miles suffer a calf injury of some sort. I think she was cramping towards the end of the game, and she was still trying to get all the way to the basket. I mean, her foot speed was on display. But overall, I thought the thing that was so stark was how small the. How small South Carolina's guards looked against tcu, but still found. Found a way to get the ball inside. Like Raven, Johnson had to go and t' Ni Lassen had to go through trees to find opportunities, and they still made it happen. I thought that was particularly impressive for South Carolina. And then, of course, the bench just agat McCair freshman stepping up. Unbelievable plays. That one spin move was nasty. Um, and then, you know, Tessa Johnson had three threes in a row. And I don't know if. I don't know if it was her mom that they kept panning the camera to Chantel, but she had on the quintessential Kim Mulkey who can go Artessa T shirt on. And that's exactly what it felt like at the end of that game.

[Sam's Club Announcer]

It's finally March, and you know what that means. Bracket season, baby.

[Zena Kada]

Picture it.

[Sam's Club Announcer]

You're hosting the big tourney game, you've got your jersey, you're looking good, and now all you need is, well, everything else to host. No sweat, though, because you're a Sam's Club member. In one trip, you say yes to grabbing everything you need and to getting it all for unbelievably low prices. Plates, cups, tables, chairs, pizza, wings, snacks, sweets, and the ultimate three pointer. A big screen tv.

[Zena Kada]

Heck, you could even get it delivered.

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That's because the play that Sam's Club runs is called yes. And it means getting just what you need and enjoying the perks that come with membership, like express delivery, bonus points. So even if you don't win your bracket, you'll win best host. Join Sam's Club, the club of yes. And on eligible items, terms and fees apply. See samsclub.com yes, and for details

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[Zena Kada]

I'm just curious, you know, when you think about South Carolina going up against a team like TCU that didn't quite have early on, you could see that the physicality in the paint was a little bit bothersome for Medina okot, which is exactly what you would expect, especially after what you saw from them in the sweet 16. In terms of the paint points for South Carolina and their bigs, is there anything that we could have learned from the way that South Carolina ends up winning this game that against a team like UConn could be excused exposed? Pretty much.

[Shantel Jennings]

It's a good question. I mean, I think it's just the thing that stands out to me about this UConn South Carolina matchup is sort of what you hit on with Agat McCre coming off the bench, being able to score 18 points off the bench like this is going to be a chess match. Don Staley and Gino or know each other really, really well. These teams have played together. There is a lot of motivation here. UConn has won the last two games against South Carolina, so I think there's going to be extra motivation for South Carolina coming into this game. But I think the fact that it's like we have seen all of these players where it's like, you know, if someone is starting a little bit slower, go to someone else. Like that is the strength of this matchup for sure. Because it's like if you would have told me someone other than Joyce Edwards is going to have 18 points. I'd been like, Tessa Johnson?

[Zena Kada]

Yeah.

[Shantel Jennings]

No, yeah. Raven Johnson. No, like, oh, yeah, like, give me a few guesses. Like, how many guesses do you need? And I think you can say the same thing for UConn where you're going to say, like, who's going to have 20 points? And you say Sarah. No. Easy. No. Like, Blanca might be your third guess at this point because she's just done it so much recently. But like, if you threw the name Ali Zebel out there, like, I don't think anyone say, like, absolutely not. Cause it's like, oh, that's like six, three. She can hit that. Like, that's not out of the question of possibilities. And so I think what'll be really interesting here is there's going to have to be sort of plan A, B, C, D for both of these teams on the defensive matchups because there are so many weapons on either side of the ball that can stop you. And so it'll be interesting to see like, how they both decide to extend their defenses. I think in a way, if they're going to run three quarter court, full court pressure to sort of like get into each other to make sure that, you know, they have a harder time setting up or just takes them longer to set up, whatever it is. Like, this is going to be so fun, honestly. Like I. To just sort of take like a step back and look at this, like, big picture. I think there's going to be a lot of people that are like, oh, the same Final four as last year, but it's four number one seeds. And it's like, this is the best, like these two games, these four teams. Like, this is the best possible product of basketball that we're going to see on the floor. These matchups, how we're going to see these breakdown, the fact that all of these teams are somehow better. I'll even say that about UConn lost the number one pick in the WNBA draft last year. I think they're better this year than they were last year. Like, all four of these teams are better. And the way that those final four games ended last year, neither one being very competitive in the second half. Like, I do not see that happening. Playback this clip if that happens.

[Zena Kada]

But I love it. I love it. This is a perfect way to end this conversation. UConn is now 38 and oh, on the season, going to try to be, you know, continue to be undefeated. Um, South Carolina needs to avenge a 23 point loss from the championship from last year. Uh, remember that score was 81 to 59 in last year's game. Just think about Dawn Staley folding up her paper and saying very loudly expletives, um, as she's watching this game. And that frustration. And then looking, as we already talked about, UCLA, Texas, UCLA. UCLA's only loss this season was against Texas on a neutral court. They'll be on a neutral court again. They'll have the opportunity to take it back. Whereas Texas is rolling, and they got Maddie Booker averaging 24 points almost going into this. This title game or this Final Four game. The matchups are unreal, and I am so grateful that, Chantel, you stayed up as you await for your flight to break it down with us. This is a really great elite eight. All right, y', all, we're gonna just, you know, see what happens. But before we get out of here, last thoughts for you, Chantel, on either of these matchups or any of these teams, things that you're looking forward to when we start. And we'll be together at the Final Four on Friday.

[Shantel Jennings]

Yeah, I mean, I think if we. If we go back to this, I think the star power on the left side of the bracket, we've got these, like, super sophomores. Sarah Strong, Joyce Edwards. I'm so excited to see that. Like, this sophomore class as a whole is just so good. I got to see it, obviously, here with Texas. Jordan Lee, Justice Carlton, both sophomores. Olivia Olsen, Silas Sword, sophomore. So many good sophomores this year. And then I think on the right side of the bracket, you've got these veteran led teams where it's Rory Harmon against the super senior group of ucla. Like, it's just so much great basketball. It's going to be so much fun in Phoenix.

[Zena Kada]

Yay. All right, well, that's where we'll be this week. Thank you guys for listening, of course, tuning in, and for all of your questions and interaction throughout this tournament. It's been a lot of fun just seeing the fact that people are appreciating great basketball. So make sure you tune in. We've got a really great conversation coming up about the W, because remember, there's a team that's going to be moving from Connecticut to Houston. That's right. The Comets are in town. We got to talk about the expansion draft. We're going to hit it all later this week. Plus, of course, we've got more thoughts on the Final Four. And by the way, Tonight is the McDonald's All American game. Definitely check that out to see the next generation of talent. My girl Ari Chambers is going to be hosting that, so shout out to that and I've already mentioned, but we're all going to be in Arizona so we'll be coming to you with live streams. Lots of good stuff. We'll be hopefully well rested, so make sure you lock in and subscribe. Don't miss anything more details are in the show Notes on behalf of the Athletic and Chantelle Jennings, I'm Zena Keda thanking you for listening and we'll see you next time. No Off Season is hosted by Zena Kada with Chantelle Jennings, Sabrina Merchant and Laysha Clarendon. It's produced by Tanika Burrell. Our executive producer is Andrea B. Scott,

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[Zena Kada]

Our theme music is by Marcus Bagala.

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[Zena Kada]

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