← No Offseason: The Athletic Women's Basketball Show
No Offseason: The Athletic Women's Basketball Show
Will Project B Steal the WNBA's Biggest Stars?
00:52:09
Loading summary
Transcript177 lines
- [00:00]
Zena Kaeda
Tell me if I'm alone here. No off season listeners. But shopping used to feel more fun before all the algorithm fed blah and the endless sea of dupes. But I have a confession. I found that fun feeling again on ebay. It's not mindless scrolling. It is a fashion pursuit. And when you score that rare Adidas Collab or the Dior saddlebag you've been manifesting, it's a rush. Ebay has millions of pre loved finds from hundreds of brands backed by the ebay authenticity guarantee. Ebay Things people love if you love to travel, Capital One has a rewards credit card that's perfect for you. With the Capital One Venture X card, you earn unlimited double miles on everything you buy.
- [00:39]
Sabrina Merchant
Plus you get premium benefits at a.
- [00:41]
Zena Kaeda
Collection of luxury hotels when you book on Capital One Travel. And with Venture X, you get access to over 1,000 airport lounges worldwide. Open up a world of travel possibilities with a Capital One Venture X card. What's in your wallet?
- [00:56]
Sabrina Merchant
Terms apply.
- [00:57]
Zena Kaeda
Lounge access is subject to change.
- [00:58]
Sabrina Merchant
See capitalone.com for details.
- [01:00]
Zena Kaeda
Oh, hey.
- [01:01]
Sabrina Merchant
Welcome to gift wrapping.
- [01:02]
Zena Kaeda
Whoa.
- [01:02]
Ben Pickman
So we saw Donna.
- [01:03]
Zena Kaeda
Hey, can you wrap these, please?
- [01:05]
Ben Pickman
Wow. IPhone 17s.
- [01:06]
Sabrina Merchant
You splurged at T Mobile. You can get four iPhone 17s on them.
- [01:10]
Zena Kaeda
The new center stage front camera is.
- [01:12]
Sabrina Merchant
Amazing for group selfies.
- [01:13]
Zena Kaeda
It's the perfect gift for everyone.
- [01:14]
Ben Pickman
I'm the worst. I only got my mom a robe.
- [01:17]
Zena Kaeda
Well, it's better than socks.
- [01:18]
Ben Pickman
So I have to trade in my old phone, right?
- [01:21]
Zena Kaeda
No @t mobile.
- [01:22]
Sabrina Merchant
There's no trade ins needed when you switch.
- [01:24]
Zena Kaeda
Keep your old phone or give it as a gift.
- [01:26]
Ben Pickman
Incredible.
- [01:27]
Zena Kaeda
In fact, wrap up my old phone.
- [01:28]
Sabrina Merchant
Too for my aunt Rosa. Forget that. Aunt Liz will be jealous.
- [01:31]
Ben Pickman
Sounds like my family drama.
- [01:33]
Zena Kaeda
Oh, I got it. I'll give it to my abuela.
- [01:35]
Sabrina Merchant
I'll take reindeer paper with.
- [01:36]
Zena Kaeda
Hey, where are you going? To T Mobile. The holidays are better.
- [01:39]
Ben Pickman
AT T Mobile get four iPhone 17s on us. No trade in needed when you switch. Plus four lines for just 25 bucks a line. And now T Mobile is available in.
- [01:46]
Sabrina Merchant
US cellular stores.
- [01:49]
Ben Pickman
If we're eligible for.
- [01:50]
Sabrina Merchant
Ins on essentials for well qualified customers bought okay.
- [01:52]
Ben Pickman
Plus taxes, fees and $35 device connection chart credits ended balance due if you pay off earlier. Cancel contact US Finance Agreement 256GB $830 required.
- [01:59]
Zena Kaeda
Visit t mobile.com. Hello everyone and welcome to no off season presented by ebay. I'm Zena Kaeda.
- [02:20]
Sabrina Merchant
I'm Sabrina Mer.
- [02:21]
Ben Pickman
And I'm Ben Pickman.
- [02:23]
Zena Kaeda
And today on the show Project B Basketball League is heating up, adding two more top tier players to their league. Could Project B become the next go to spot for players outside the wnba? And just how attractive are their offers? We're here to break down everything we know while also exploring the potential of this emerging league. But first, WNBA wants to make sure they stay focal points right in this conversation around pro women's basketball. And there are some big news in the WNBA CBA negotiations. So it's time for our segment of Deal or no Deal. And as of right now, there's still no deal. So I might have hyped that up a little bit, but the league is proposing to raise the maximum player salary to over 1.1 million, which is a huge jump from what players currently earn. And Ben, you've been following this very closely. What more can you tell us about the latest proposal?
- [03:18]
Ben Pickman
Yeah, I mean, this was a proposal, according to people that I've talked with, that was actually sent before the initial 30 day extension was reached. So I think that is important to consider and think about when we think about the progress of these discussions, that the league sent a proposal in which they offered more than $1.1 million of max salary back on October 29, the day before that 30 day extension. And in part of that proposal, there was also a minimum salary of more than 220,000 DOL, an average player salary of more than $450, $460,000. All of those are substantial increases from what players currently make. The current player maximum salary is around $250,000. And so the two sides have continued to meet, you know, in the weeks since that proposal was sent. They continue to meet this week. I know they met on Wednesday, for instance, as the talks continue to progress with a November 30th extension deadline looming. It was October 31st, now it's November 30th. They're continuing to talk. And it's just been a busy period in the WNBA from a leadership standpoint, because last week, at the end of last week, team GMs and coaches were in town in New York City for a competition committee meetings. On Friday, league officials met with team presidents. And then Monday and Tuesday of this week, the league WNB officials inform the league's board of governors who were in town for board of Governor meetings about the details of the latest proposal and the state of the negotiations more broadly.
- [04:51]
Zena Kaeda
Now, Ben, I ain't gonna lie. When I heard 1.1 million, I was like, I was intrigued. I was interested. This is huge in terms of a jump, but there's still something around the revenue share, right? Salary was one portion of it, but it was the revenue share. It's the factor of being able to grow that 1.1 million potential dollar value alongside the growth of the league not being capped at that. So you said in your story that the players union has repeatedly proposed a salary framework tied to the WNBA business. Do we know anything about what that could look like and what they're looking for?
- [05:28]
Ben Pickman
Yeah, we don't exactly know the specifics of what the players have countered in various counter proposals to the league at this time. But I think what is so interesting here as we think about these negotiations generally is is there a number that the league can offer or that that salary number can get to in which players say the revenue sharing model? Like, we're willing to revise our proposal in a certain manner so that we might not get as much growth in the business in the next couple of years, but we'll take that kind of output, that overall big number in salary in the short term. That is kind of a tension point that I'm certainly watching for or that I'm monitoring for as these talks progress. I mean, you know, the league would say that there is some kind of revenue sharing system that they're also applying. We've talked about that at some length and maybe Sabrina can go into, you know, some of those specifics as well. But you know, again, like, the number is certainly buzzy, right? The 1.1 million. The fact that a player might now make seven figures annually is a buzzy number. The question is, you know, I don't think at this point that's going to resolve the differences or the core financial differences. I would not still expect an agreement, I guess, over the next 10 days either.
- [06:39]
Zena Kaeda
Sabrina, this is more a question of opinion, but we know that the last CBA was basically set up to have this moment. They knew going into the 2020 CBA negotiations that they were going to accept the things that helped them feel like humans as athletes, that helped their overall lived experience as athletes. And they accepted the situation knowing that this CBA was going to come and they were going to push really hard on it with what Ben just mentioned, the potential of the WNBA offering out a salary number that might make them go, you know, what might be worth walking this number in? And in a few years working on that, that revenue share structure and reworking that, what benefit would it be for the WNBA players to continue that patience, to continue a similar model of let's lock in here and then keep working on this in a few years or would they lose the momentum that they have right now with the WNBA growth that's happening?
- [07:38]
Sabrina Merchant
Well, I think there's definitely some consideration of this magnitude of a number, right? Seven figures for a maximum salary. Because you know, Ben mentioned that this proposal was offered before the extension was accepted, as we understand the timeline. Like the league offered the extension before this proposal came through. So they offered the extension, then this proposal came and then the union was like, okay, maybe we can take the extension. Right? So that timeline suggests that there is some interest at the very least in this type of proposal, right. With the magnitude of salary increase that it's proposing. Why I don't think that this is quite enough to get the job done is because if the WNBA is still proposing a revenue sharing system similar to what exists in the current cba, there's just so many other details that are of supreme importance in whether this is good enough. Right? Because in the current CBA, the salary cap goes up by 3% annually, but the revenue sharing system only kicks in if revenue increases by 20% annually. So you think about the gap in those numbers, right? Like players can technically participate in the growth of the business through revenue share, but they're participating in a much smaller business from their salary cap increase, right. Relative to the revenue share. So if it's a similar system, like is the cap going up by more, what is the cap in this case? Right, because maximum salaries by this number about 1 point are increasing by about 4x. But minimum salaries if they're, you know, 220 are not increasing by the same amount. Right? And if the salary cap is not increasing by the same amount, are we only benefiting the max players in the WNBA and like, are the veterans and the middle class players getting squeezed? Right, so there's just so many details here that affect how the entire WNBA player pool is experiencing this new salary increase. And so it's really hard to say if the WNBA players should take it because again, there's just so much we don't know about how everyone will benefit in this overall increase of money.
- [09:35]
Ben Pickman
And length of the deal is also another thing that like we, you know, were not aware of at this point. But that is to. To your kind of questions. You know, another interesting consideration here because in theory, you know, the, the players could agree to an agreement that allows them to opt out, you know, in three years, say. Right? Again, this is total hypothetical speculation, but there's nothing that would stop them from signing a seven year with a three year opt out. And Renegotiating and basically like continuing the talks that we're on. So to the question of like wanting to continue momentum, that is certainly a possible scenario where you take some more money up front, but basically if you're, you know, if the deal that they were going to sign, if the players could theoretically opt out in three years, then you're basically renegotiating again for the next couple years while still also making more money in the short term. Right. So that is definitely, you know, something that I could see being in play too. You know, I certainly couldn't see the league or the players rather locking themselves into a seven year deal without any opt outs and just with a more fixed salary number that might increase at, you know, 3% like it currently does.
- [10:44]
Zena Kaeda
For instance, I can imagine the players being able to lock into something now kind of literally looking at the NCAA rosters, the international rosters and being like, when does Ala Fam get here? When does Juju Watkins get here? When does, you know, these generational type talents that are going to continuously provide these big boons for the WNBA and will help with that dollar amounts and the investment and the growth that is going to allow them to go to the negotiation table with a little bit more like, hey, we still have this issue of not growing alongside the league and it's not slowing down anytime soon. Look at this new talent that has brought in additional dollars, additional visibility, additional sponsorship, et cetera. But Sabrina, you bring up a great point about how all of this is going to play out eventually. The sisterhood that got them to this point in the negotiation. How will it be tested? There's one thing that is also interesting when you talk about players at the top, players that are more veteran, players that are considered very important to players, to teams. Excuse me, break down this conversation and negotiations around the core system. Right? Players are saying that they might want to tweak it or maybe even get rid of it first. Sabrina, break down what coring is, what is the core system and why players are pushing for a change.
- [12:04]
Sabrina Merchant
Right? So the core is a designation that can be applied to any free agent for a team. Essentially the way it works is once you've extended a core qualifying offer to a player, they can only negotiate with you during free agency. And so they can't go out and talk to other teams unless you give them permission to do so. Which if you've applied the core to them, like, why would you do that? And extending that core qualifying offer means that you are agreeing to give them at least a one year Maximum salary. Now you can negotiate another deal, right? Like you can say we've tagged you with a core, but we can still do like a two year deal a little bit below the max, or a three year deal below the max, or you can even negotiate a sign and trade at this point, right? But the point is, is that even if the player is a free agent, by tagging them with the core now, you control their rights during free agency, even though they're technically already a free agent. So it's basically another way for teams to retain control of players beyond, you know, the four year rookie contract, beyond restricted free agency. And then this is like another provision to control their rights, you know, further beyond their careers. And what that does is like, you know, gives teams more investment into their players, right? Because you have control of them for about six years once you've drafted them, right, because you've got four years of rookie contract, one year of restricted free agency at least, and then the core. But it does make it a lot harder for players to move to destinations of their own choice because they can't go as free agents. They have to go and sign into raise, which, I mean, frankly, we've discovered that if you want to get traded onto the core, it can pretty much happen, right? Like Alyssa Thomas, Kelsey Plumb, Satou Sabali, like everybody who really wanted to move even though they were cored this offseason, managed to make that happen. But it does give teams just a little bit more control, I guess, over the players, which is why you can understand why players would not want to surrender that control to teams when they are trying to control their own careers.
- [13:51]
Ben Pickman
And it's especially interesting at this moment in the WNBA calendar because with two expansion teams coming along, how the core is or is not applied is very relevant, right? So last year the Golden State Valkyries, they could draft an unrestricted free agent if they so choose. They selected Monique Billings and they had the option to assign the core designation to her. Now they, I guess renegotiated a deal with Mo Billings. They did not give her the core designation, but she was an unrestricted free agent. But going forward, for instance, say Toronto, say Portland, they could take these high profile free agents and we, as we've discussed, so many veteran players are free agents and they could then assign the core designation to them and sign them basically to one year max contract. That's something, say that could happen with Ari Gumbawale, right? Should the Dallas Wings not protect her? Maybe Dallas chooses not to protect her. Maybe she becomes an available player. And then Toronto or Portland could say, yeah, we're going to take Arike at some point in the expansion draft and we're just going to give her the core. And now we'll have Arike on a max deal for at least one season. If you get rid of the core designation, well then, huh, maybe it becomes a little bit less appealing for Toronto or Portland to potentially draft a player like Arike, because you don't know then if you're going to be able to sign her or you know, you're going to at least be having to bid against other teams in the league to try and sign her. Right? So that's where in the team building context coming up, it's really, really interesting because if it doesn't, if it's not in this current agreement, or if it's applied in a different way, then maybe that impacts how some of these new expansion teams progress with their team building going forward.
- [15:32]
Zena Kaeda
There's so many questions around the roster building portion of next season because the CBA is still outstanding. And another aspect of it, when you talk about roster building, when you talk about players that have the opportunity to play in the states or overseas, there's this prioritization rule, a rule that's been around the WNBA for a while and it's suddenly back in the spotlight as salaries are set to rise. For those who aren't familiar, this rule requires players who compete in other leagues to report on time for WNBA training camp or they risk being suspended for the entire season. The poster child of this rule recently was Gabby Williams of the Seattle Storm playing overseas in France. She's called it out publicly, this prioritization rule, and we do feel like it's mainly because players want to be able to maximize their ability to make money, right? And they also want to honor the contracts that they've signed overseas. And a lot of the time those salaries overseas in other places are higher than what the WNBA offers. So, Ben 1.1 have me thinking about overseas a little bit differently. You know, just the buzzy number again, will the league stick to this rule if they're giving out higher dollars or is there still room for change around this?
- [16:49]
Ben Pickman
Yeah, so prioritization was really important for the owners to put in in the last CBA agreement, collective bargaining agreement, because they again wanted players to prioritize playing in the wnba. Players were frustrated or have voiced their frustrations. Players like Gabby Williams, but plenty of others basically saying, well, we'll prioritize you if you pay us. We should be prioritized, right? And so that is kind of the tension that is at hand now. It doesn't seem like the league is going to make players play exclusively in the wnba. You know, there's all these other options unrivaled Project B, as we'll talk about, other European leagues, as there have been traditionally. And what is so interesting about this kind of tension between prioritization, exclusivity, and money is it actually goes back to a kind of core tension at the WNBA's founding as it relates to the WNBA and the ABL, which was the other league that was prominent at the time, in the mid to late 90s when the WNBA was just getting going. Because, yeah, those leagues had different footprints, but the ABL actually had a rule that said at the start you couldn't play in other leagues. It was an exclusive league, that if you were going to sign with the abl, you were only going to play with the abl. And not surprisingly, initially for almost all of the players in the abl, they made more money or they had higher average salaries than players in the wnba. So with exclusivity in that league came higher salaries. Whereas in the wnba, you had players, with a few exceptions, generally making less money, but had the options to play in those European leagues or play in other leagues. And so that is very much attention that was present back, you know, in 1996, 97, 98. As you know, the league was getting going and the American women's basketball landscape was changing. It's something three decades later that very much is a tension right around, how much do you get paid? If we pay you more money, what does that mean for where else you can play? And that's something, again, like, we're seeing that conflict on full display in the cba and as it also relates to some of these winter basketball leagues as well.
- [18:47]
Zena Kaeda
I'm so curious how those winter basketball leagues might look at this in comparison to the other winter basketball leagues in terms of prioritizing, you know, the play in the off season per se. We've seen players, Kayla McBride, for example, playing in Europe in unrivaled and then going straight into the wnba. I mean, that's wear and tear on your body. And I imagine owners want to ensure that their players are in the best shape possible and not risking anything to come and play for their programs, especially if they're raising the amount of money they're paying them. Sabrina, what ideas are on the table to try and change this rule? Like, how could you go about making this work for the players and the.
- [19:27]
Sabrina Merchant
Owners Well, I mean, just to, you know, present the other side of the coin there. Like we've seen the Russian league get exclusivity with Diana Tarazzi by paying her not to play in the WNBA a year coming off of when the Phoenix and Mercury won a title. Right. They didn't even get to go back to back because Diana just sat out that season because, you know, Russia was I think like 10xing her salary to sit out, you know, the WNBA so that they could protect her body for their season. But like Ben said, you know, the WNBA isn't trying to propose any sort of exclusivity. Right. They understand that unrivaled exists Athletes Unlimited exists. Europe, Australia, Asia, all of these leagues, Project B exist. What they do want to do is make sure that when the players are in the WNBA that they're committed to playing in the WNBA. Like before 2020, we had situations where players would finish their European season, come back maybe four or five games into the WNBA season. You don't have training camp, you don't get to learn your new team. We've talked about the condensing of the schedule in the wnba. When are you going to practice and actually learn how to with your teammates? And so it's understandable that if you're, you know, in 2020, they basically doubled the maximum salary. If you're going to double the salaries, you want to make sure that your players are actually here actually participating in training camp, actually participating in the entire length of the regular season. And now if you're looking at a situation where now the salaries are going to 4x, right? It's like, well, yeah, you got to continue to actually play a full WNBA season to earn that full salary. Right. So I don't think it's a matter of trying to get them to stop playing in other leagues. It's a matter of just, you need to make sure that this league comes first. Right. And what's interesting is that as this has changed, you know, in the WNBA and players have become diligent about reporting on time or, you know, even switching to unrivaled. Like European leagues have lost out on a lot of the biggest stars who generally tended to come over there. Right. Like Nafisa Collier is not going over. Brianna Stewart's not going over. Right. They created unrivals that they wouldn't have to do that. And that, funny enough, like incentivizes Europeans to want to come to the wnba because when else are they going to play against the best competition in the world if not during WNBA seasons. And those leagues have actually mostly moved their calendar so that they don't conflict with the wnpa. Like, I think the French league still runs a little bit long, but most of the leagues are of the point where like you can play through the finals and still come back to the W and fulfill all terms of your contract. So this was actually an interesting example of the WNBA exerting some leverage internationally that I didn't realize it had. But it has forced other basketball calendars to align with the WNBA schedule. And like we're even seeing that with the FIBA World cup. Right. Like in 2030, they moved it so that it won't conflict with the WNBA season. So as the WNBA becomes more attractive to players and provides a better player experience and actually invests, you know, in the experience of its players, you can see it like actually have some strength, you know, to do things like, hey, we don't want you playing in other leagues at this time. We don't want you participating in international competitions at this time. And you can do that when you put the money behind where your mouth is.
- [22:13]
Zena Kaeda
Yeah, I would imagine with the NBA being the investor in the WNBA and being that big brother league, but I hate the way that that infantilizes the wnba. But either way, the NBA being involved with the WNBA and knowing the NBA's connections with FIBA, business connections, et cetera, I would imagine that probably had some impact on being able to push some of that leverage, you'd think.
- [22:40]
Sabrina Merchant
And yet NBA has not been able to control the FIBA calendar in the same way.
- [22:44]
Zena Kaeda
Exactly what I was gonna say. Exactly. So I'm just trying to figure out, I'm like, is Cathy making secret trips to Europe that, you know, we don't know about? But either way, it's a good thing for the WNBA to be able to have kind of like the diamond in for them from a business perspective. Right. The Diamond League, in which people want to support their timeline and feed in talent into that league. But this globalization of the game is gonna make this more interesting. And that's why we gotta talk about Project B. They're back in the news this week with two huge signings. So we're going to dive into all the details just in a bit. Tell me if I'm alone here, no off season listeners, but shopping used to feel more fun before all the algorithm fed blah and the endless sea of dupes. But I have a confession. I found that fun feeling again on ebay. It's not mindless scrolling. It is a fashion pursuit. And when you score that rare Adidas Collab or the Dior saddlebag you've been manifesting. It's a rush. Ebay has millions of pre loved fines from hundreds of brands backed by the ebay authenticity guarantee. Ebay things people love.
- [23:54]
Sabrina Merchant
Banking with Capital One helps you keep.
- [23:56]
Ben Pickman
More money in your wallet with no fees or minimums on checking accounts and no overdraft fees.
- [24:02]
Sabrina Merchant
Just ask the Capital One bank guy. It's pretty much all he talks about.
- [24:06]
Zena Kaeda
In a good way.
- [24:07]
Sabrina Merchant
He'd also tell you that this podcast is his favorite podcast too.
- [24:11]
Ben Pickman
Ah, really?
- [24:12]
Sabrina Merchant
Thanks.
- [24:12]
Ben Pickman
Capital One bank guy.
- [24:13]
Sabrina Merchant
What's in your wallet? Term supply. See capitalone.com bank capital1na member FDIC hi, I'm Darina, co founder of Quo. You might know us as OpenPhone. My dad is a business owner and growing up he always kept his ringtone super loud so he'd never miss a customer call. That stuck with me.
- [24:34]
Zena Kaeda
When we started quo, our mission was.
- [24:36]
Sabrina Merchant
To help businesses not just stay in touch with, but make every customer feel valued no matter when they might call. Quo gives your team business phone numbers to call and text on your phone or computer.
- [24:48]
Zena Kaeda
Your calls, messages and contacts live in.
- [24:51]
Sabrina Merchant
One workspace so your team can stay fully aligned and reply faster. And with our AI agent answering 24.
- [24:58]
Zena Kaeda
Seven, you'll really never miss a customer.
- [25:01]
Sabrina Merchant
Over 90,000 businesses use quo. Get 20% off@quo.com tech. That's, that's quo.com tech and we can port your existing numbers over for free. Quo. No missed calls, no missed customers.
- [25:23]
Zena Kaeda
Okay, guys, so Project B Basketball league announced this week that Jonquill Jones and Jewel Lloyd are its new assignees. They're not, they're not going for the low bars here, guys. These are some big, big names. And they're joining Elite stars Nico Guima K and Alyssa Thomas, top tier players. Their signings send a big message about what this league is really aiming to do, who they're trying to have, the type of branding and marquee names they're trying to, you know, put on display. And I've heard a conversation with Alayna Beard that's leading Project B alongside Sarah Spain. Great podcast, good game. If you haven't listened to it, definitely check it out. And they discussed a little bit about this league. I ain't gonna lie. It's a little vague, it's a little opaque. But Alayna Beard is doing her job as a leader to share what she can and let us know that there's more information coming. So based on what we know now, Sabrina, I'll let You start here. What is being offered to the players who sign with Project B? And why are some of the biggest names in women's basketball choosing to join?
- [26:34]
Sabrina Merchant
Right, so just to set the stage about what Project B is because I think not a lot of people even know the setup of this league.
- [26:41]
Zena Kaeda
Sure, yeah.
- [26:41]
Sabrina Merchant
It's going to be six teams of 11 players each. They're going to debut in the fall of 2026. So not this current off season, but the next off season for the wnba. I should say no off season always. But they're going to have these two week tournaments across the world where all the teams participate in the tournament and they collect points by winning these tournaments. And then at the end of the season you have like a total champion based on how many points have accumulated over the course of these two week tournaments. And Elena Beard on the podcast said that they've already signed players from four to five continents, which I thought was an interesting thing to not be able to share. Exactly. But four to five continents have signed along with project.
- [27:19]
Ben Pickman
Anyone from Antarctica? Anyone from Antarctica, you think or not?
- [27:21]
Sabrina Merchant
Is that one of the four or five continents? Who knows? But yeah, the idea is that they said that their average salaries exceed any other women's professional basketball league in the world. We've heard numbers of up to $2 million for individual players for one season of participation. And they get equity within the league, which is something that we saw pioneered by Unrivaled where the initial class of players got equity in that startup. And we're seeing a similar thing offered by Project B. But again, Wars Unrivaled was hoping to keep people domestically. This is again a worldwide global basketball league. Elena Beard kept mentioning the comparisons to Formula One, which is obviously very global sport. And so they will be playing across the world during their off seasons and you know, potentially bringing in the money and equity that makes that worthwhile for their purposes.
- [28:11]
Zena Kaeda
What I'm fascinated by is what I love that Alaina Beard mentioned that in each of these cities that they're going to, you know, be a part of or play have their tournaments in, they're doing long term investing, that this is not going to be a one stop shop type of experience. That city is going to have a connection to Project B throughout the year, until the season or until the competition returns to their city. I am very curious as to how that is going to be executed in terms of year round potential activation or engagement with the city. But it was all about the player. Right. Sarah Spain asked a really great question about how do you get someone to root for these teams when there's not necessarily a hometown that they're coming from. You're talking about players from four to five continents. So there's not necessarily an allegiance from patriotism in a certain way for rooting for certain players, especially if the teams are as mixed as we believe they're going to be. And Alaina Beard made this mention of. It's incredibly individualistic. It's really about the player, the name on the back of the jersey. She referenced the Luka Doncic trade in the NBA and how the sales dropped for his jersey and the engagement dropped for the Dallas Mavericks when he was traded to Los Angeles Lakers. And talking about this generation of, you know, Gen Z being really about highlights and streaming and about the individual. And it makes me think of when you look at the wnba, there is a bit of mix of hometown lovers, right? They love their hometown team. But if you're a new WNBA fan, a lot of folks jumped on the Caitlin Clark bandwagon. A lot of folks are on the Angel Reese bandwagon or the Asia Wilson bandwagon. Ben, with everything that we've learned with Project B and knowing that it is individual focused, is this an opportunity that could draw in stars like Asia Wilson, like Caitlin Clark, that could have an opportunity to make this money and play with knowing that their brand could be the thing pushing this league forward?
- [30:09]
Ben Pickman
Well, I mean, it's going to draw on stars if they pay them enough. I mean, I think that's the thing that is drawing people in here. Right. It's not about, you know, yeah, I guess you can argue that it is increasing people's global brands, but you certainly have seen in the NIL era and I think we can talk about NIL and how that impacts unrivaled versus this project. I guess no pun intended. That's even a pun. But like they're totally different, you know, if they pay them enough money. I think we're going to see some people go and certainly think about the commonalities between the first group of four players that have been announced. They're all over 30 players who did not come up in the nil era. Right. These are not players that benefited from their name, image and likeness in college. They're not players that benefited from, you know, significant salary increases during their WNBA tenures. These are all veteran players, big name players in the W. But we haven't yet seen a young player publicly commit to this league. And among some of the players that have committed, you know, we'll highlight John Qual Jones and Alyssa Thomas as two of them. Those are players who, again, no judgments here, have gone to Russia, China, Turkey, some of the highest profile clubs and highest paying clubs in each of those respective countries throughout their careers. They're players who have prioritized getting paid. That's their prerogative. Those are decisions that they have made and that seems to be another decision that they have made in electing to play with this league going forward. So that's number one. Number two, you know, we don't know really what, how this league is being funded. We're not exactly sure also what the business model is. Right. So when you compare what Project B's business model is to other leagues in America, think about from that individualistic perspective, media rights. Right? The WNBA has a, what's going to be a, you know, 11 year, $2.2 billion media rights deal going to an effect next year. Media rights are the foundation of the league's business. You can say it's individualistic and people tune in to watch their favorite player, but the key is that they tune in. What we don't know is, okay, like what is Project B's business model and how does media rights play into it? Are they going to broadcast games here in America? Is it going to be an international contract with someone like Dazn? Again, totally a hypothetical, but as like a leading TV or media rights provider internationally, like, it's important for them to say they're going to be highlights focused and clips focused because I sure wonder how many people are going to get up at 4 o' clock in the morning and watch, you know, unnamed teams with players that they might not all know. You know, that seems like a problem to me if I'm trying to create a business that is marketed to American fans. And so I think it is reasonable to then say we're going to focus on individual highlights and clips. But I also don't know what other choice they then have to make.
- [32:47]
Sabrina Merchant
Yeah, you mentioned Alyssa Thomas and John Coyle Jones having played in China and Russia throughout their careers. Neca Ogumuke also has played in China and Russia throughout her career. And what's interesting is that I remember when Team USA had their barnstorming tour ahead of the 2020 Tokyo Olympics and NEC. Like this was a great opportunity for her because she's played overseas her entire career and like her body was wearing down and she wanted to not have to do that every off season. And I find it so fascinating that as the WNBA season becomes longer and more onerous and players have complained about the schedule and the cadence and the wear on their bodies. They're still pursuing more full off season opportunities, you know, that will continue the wear and tear on their bodies at advanced stages. Right. Like, I'm not going to call like Neca geriatric or anything, but like, she is in the latter stages of her WNBA career and she and Jon Kwell and Jewel and Alyssa Thomas are all again in the latter halves of their careers and choosing to willingly add more wear and tear onto their bodies. And so what that says to me is one, they don't think that the WNBA is going to come through financially the way that it hopes. Two, for AT and Jewel, who have both played unrivaled, that wasn't the off season experience that they were hoping for. Maybe it's a 3x3 versus 5 on 5 situation or unrivaled was more physically taxing than they hoped it would be. But I do think it's interesting that, like, as these players are in situations where you would imagine that they want to scale back and, you know, spend more time focusing on their WME careers, they're adding more and more basketball to their plates. Like, they're adding global international travel and like playing in places.
- [34:17]
Zena Kaeda
That's what I was going to say.
- [34:18]
Sabrina Merchant
Across the world. Like, this cannot be easy for them to handle physically. And yet the money must be something like, too hard to say no to if this is a, you know, a style of play, a competition that they're willing to align themselves with because again, like, they're at the phases of their career where, like, this is not Nafisa Collier, who's still on the, you know, the younger side of 30 or, you know, some of the other players that we've seen join Unrivaled, which again, is not their full off season. Like the calendar for Project B is supposed to run from November to April. Like, that's your entire WNBA off season. Right.
- [34:49]
Zena Kaeda
Right.
- [34:49]
Sabrina Merchant
So I just, I think it's interesting that like so much of the conversation around the WNBA over the last five years has been, we want to get to a point where the WNBA can be our only job. And either they don't have the confidence that the WNBA can do that, or they're just like basketball junkies that want to keep playing all year. But it's just interesting, like, considering all of the conversation that has been around how difficult the WNBA season is, that we're just continuing to add more and more games to their buckets.
- [35:15]
Zena Kaeda
I feel like the international travel was the part that made me go this feels like aggressive, especially at this stage in those particular players careers. But the way I looked at it was they're also getting equity in this league and so are they looking at like this is going to be. I'm just going to go hard in the paint for one year, set this thing up, make sure that it has the brand equity that will allow me to reap the rewards of investing in it and being a part of it. And then I got it. I don't have to do this anymore. Right? Set it up, make it so that folks around the world are bought in or interested in it and then I can just sit back and enjoy my portion of the equity. I also was thinking about, you know, the way that Alaina Beard described at least the payment model. They said that they were very aligned with what tech businesses do, which makes sense. The main backers and founders of this is Jeffrey Prentice and Grady Burnett. Jeff Prentice was the co founder of Skype. Grady Burnett was at Meta chief salesperson that like grew their business exfold. But I still don't know what that means. And I think that that is the part that is everyone has issue with is there's just a lot of opacity. Like we just don't know quite know what's happening with where the money is coming from, how the money is going to be distributed. And it's also important to note that Project B, if you're just learning about this, it is not just a women's league. This is not just a women's five by five league that's happening from November to April. It's supposed to be a co ed situation, not the teams but in the sense that you will be able to see men's basketball and women's basketball. Now we don't know much about how those two are going to be, how they're going to juxtapose each other, how much backing is going to happen with the women versus the men? Is that 2 million that's been rumored similar to what the men are talking about. But I don't feel great when we're talking about this is individualistic based because we know the men value themselves at a much higher rate than the women that potentially could be in this league.
- [37:21]
Ben Pickman
Yeah, I mean I think there's a few really interesting things there and I'll throw a bunch of stuff out off of that and feel free to hit whatever you want. Let's do it. Number one, I think we should say you mentioned some of the investors that one of the league's future partners, Salah is owned by Saudi Arabia's sovereign wealth fund. You know, there's definitely, when you think about opacity, some questions about how exactly is this league getting the funds to pay players significant amounts of money? I think, you know, in conversations with some people it raises a possible comparison again to live golf where you have a number of really high profile players. John Rahm, Bryson DeChambeau, Dustin Johnson, some of the best players over the last, you know, 10 or 15 years on the PGA Tour, Phil Mickelson. And then you know, further down that league's roster, a lot of golfers that the lay fan may not have heard of. So you know, think about a 66 player league in what Project B says it is going to be. It's definitely got some big namers. But if you mentioned signing players from four or five different continents, when you think about unrivaled, saying that they have, you know, around 30 players signed to multi year deals, the question is where is Project B going to sign 66 players from that, you know, like who's going to make up those rosters? That's I guess question A to your point, Xena, about the dynamic between the men's league and the women's league. What else is so interesting here is, you know, look where they've started to announce players and have these rollouts on the women's side because theoretically, as you seemingly are alluding, it's probably easier to get high profile women's players to commit because they haven't been paid as much historically. Right. And so if you just throw them.
- [38:59]
Sabrina Merchant
During the NBA season, right, you throw.
- [39:02]
Ben Pickman
Them a lot of money, like you can get them to commit. And you recognize that. Think about like business people, a potential like void, a void in the market, an area for you to swoop in and carve out some space. And they seemingly are trying to do that by paying players a lot of money. Whereas Sabrina so astutely points out you both have the conflict with the NBA schedule. And also guess what, if you're an NBA player who's making $50 million a year, like or $70 million a year or maybe even $12 million a year, maybe you're less likely or less entitled heist by playing in this league. And the NBA also has this whole other thing with NBA Europe that is going on and a new league that they're trying to start as a spin off or you know, something else in, in relation to the Euro League, we don't need to get into that rabbit hole either on this episode. But like, yeah, like Are they basically choosing to focus on the women's side right now too, because it's easier to. Or like it's more advantageous to. Or they can make more of an imprint right off the bat from a business standpoint, not necessarily because they believe in women's sports versus men's sports, I would say.
- [40:13]
Zena Kaeda
Right, right, right, right. There's some positives here. Let's throw out some positives. Okay. One for me, I personally am excited about the prospect of getting to see international players that I don't know enough about alongside these American players. Like, we have to tune in on various websites to be able to see European basketball right now or, you know, these other leagues that are happening and it's not. It's a lot easier than it's been in the past. But if you're not falling for the entire season, like, the names might fall through the cracks if you've got this, like, high powered, high energy, like, dazzle around two weeks of the best players from around the world, like, there's something enticing about that. So I do think that that is cool that there is going to be this globalization of the names that we might miss outside of the American market. The idea that basketball like barnstorming on a very high level. Right. I think barnstorming always has this, like, negative connotation from, like, when it first started, where it's like these people that should not be taking them very seriously or, you know, it's just an easy, affordable way to go watch basketball that if you can't afford to go watch the premier leagues, this is an opportunity. Whether it was barnstorming in baseball or basketball, whatever name you, whatever sport you call this feels like it's going to be legitimate. It's going to have the right investment and resources around it to make it that F1 feel. Maybe not quite as much money, but still on that level. That seems cool. That seems awesome. Another product of basketball. I don't. I don't know if I'm. I don't know how I feel about that. I feel like there's a lot going on right now, but I'm just still trying to figure out, you know, if this is exactly what we need right now. But there's still so many questions. Sabrina on the pod Alayna Beard continuously promised Sarah Spain that that more information would come. More information will come. We'll break down the way they're paid. We'll break down, you know, more about the investment. We'll break down more about how you're gonna be able to watch games. Like all this stuff was price.
- [42:15]
Ben Pickman
Create a website that, like a functional website maybe.
- [42:18]
Zena Kaeda
Right, thank you. Right. Like we're finding this stuff out piecemeal through social media and news articles or newsers. I, I believe it, I believe it's coming. I just don't know if is this vagueness going to impact the draw of fans and maybe even other big stars to potentially join this league?
- [42:39]
Sabrina Merchant
I mean, I think what Ben said about their distribution is so important. Right. Like how people are able to consume this league is going to be a huge factor in what sort of fan base you're able to develop. Right. Like if you're only able to watch games at 4 o' clock in the morning, you know, depending on if they're playing in Singapore or you know, Eastern Europe or somewhere like that, that's gonna change the way you're able to market. Right. And personally, like, I don't love the idea of rooting for the name on the back of the jersey versus the front. It's like antithetical to every sports movie I've ever watched. You know, growing up, it's. And again, maybe this is not meant for a millennial. Maybe this is meant for Gen Z and Gen Alpha and like younger generations of fans, you know.
- [43:18]
Ben Pickman
But then Sabrina, you would have younger players. Like that's the thing. Like why?
- [43:22]
Zena Kaeda
Well, Elena did allude.
- [43:23]
Sabrina Merchant
But like you said, you don't need the nil players because they already have money.
- [43:27]
Ben Pickman
Right? Yeah, but there's the conflict. There's another conflict. Go back to what you were saying.
- [43:31]
Sabrina Merchant
Yeah, I don't mean to poo poo it, but I don't see the value in two week tournaments and then points get added up. It's not the way I've ever wanted to watch basketball. And I know every league that tries to come up with a radical new concept of how we're going to score things like Athletes Unlimited goes by the players. And I gotta tell you, it's hard for me to watch every week when the teams are changing and I don't know who's who and which teams have which players. Also the streaming is just harder. I think WNBA League Pass started carrying Athletes Unlimited, which is nice, but like Ben said, if Dazn picks up Project Beat, right. That's an expensive streaming service. Right. That's a lot of money I'm going to have to put into wanting to watch this league. And if I want to watch the best players in the world compete internationally, Euroleague is on YouTube. It is not that hard for me to consume So I just wonder, is there actually a void in the marketplace that they are trying to fill? You know, like, I think about unrivaled and it fulfilled a specific need of players staying home. They tried to make it a developmental opportunity for players. Right. Like, there were all these things that it hit that WNBA players weren't able to otherwise accomplish during their off seasons. I look at Project Bean, I'm like, aren't we just describing like higher salaried European offerings? You know, like, isn't this something that already exists for players? Like, what role are we trying to fill here other than, I don't know, just giving another potential league that can compete with the WNBA during CBA negotiations? Like, the timing of this is all just very interesting to me and I'm not even convinced.
- [45:00]
Ben Pickman
Like, you know, Xena, you mentioned the player experience component, like unrivaled. We think about it from a medical standpoint. Their director of, I think her title was Recovery and Performance was Susan Borcher. She is the top trainer. I mean, I guess maybe that's not her official title, but she's a longtime USA trainer at Team usa, right. She's someone who's worked with Taurasi and Stewart and the biggest names in women's basketball. They had multiple trainers on their staff last year, their medical staff who were WNBA team athletic trainers, head athletic trainers from multiple teams this year. I mean, they've talked about, again, we don't know the names of all the training staff, but I think it's safe to assume that some of those people will be back. And when they're looking at building out training staffs, each of those teams, as we previously have said at Unrivaled, will have one dedicated athletic trainer. I have to imagine those are people who either have worked in the wnba, are working in the wnba, or have worked at high level women's college basketball programs. And we know that they've poured a lot of resources into training and some of those people are then contacting or in regular contact with the American agents, WNBA teams, et cetera. Like, you know, I guess they're. If they have hypothetically an unlimited budget to pour into medical resources, yeah, they can, you know, provide a very high quality player experience at Project B. But like, are they going to poach the ex WNBA teams, you know, trainer and have them travel the world? Like, I don't really know. You know, that's another big difference on top of the travel.
- [46:30]
Zena Kaeda
So, yeah, even before you go into personnel, I'm thinking infrastructure, right? Like what are the gyms available what are the medical resources from an infrastructure perspective that's, that's. That are available in these cities that we still don't know. Right.
- [46:44]
Sabrina Merchant
Which cities it is probably on four to five continents.
- [46:47]
Zena Kaeda
Yeah, there we go. So we. There's still. There's. Even before you talk about who can you poach, what does the experience look like? This is why, if they are able to create something like the F1 experience, where it feels like this luxurious, amazing, once in a lifetime exclusive event that you want to be a part of that I can see why they're doing that. Right. Like WNBA games have just started to feel in that way where you're seeing these stars, a list celebrities sitting courtside, tuning in. We're just now seeing more and more since 1997, I would say, because everyone was at that first Sparks game. I mean, Tyra Banks was there, for goodness sake. Okay, as a millennial, that's a big deal. But since the first few seasons of the wnba, there hasn't been that same consistency until these more recent years where it's a thing to be at WNBA games. And I feel like that might be the main thing that I can imagine Project B providing in terms of a different women's basketball product, is this elevated, unique, exclusive event. Now, if they haven't already reached out to Netflix or whomever to create a series alongside this, that is the only other way that I can feel a connection to these teams and these players. Without folks, I have never watched a second of an F1 race live. Never. But the F1 series on Netflix eating it up. It's fascinating, right? It's fascinating to see these players, they're behind the scenes. What goes into their training, what goes into the cars, like it's all of that is what actually gets you tied into the sport. And I feel like this is. That's an opportunity. That is absolutely an opportunity for Project B. We'll see what happens because as we've just laid out, there's a lot we don't know, and apparently it's coming. And we will keep you guys up to date, of course, as we learn more. But yeah, would love to hear what you guys think about Project B. And I love the question that Sabrina raises. What is the void that they might be filling from your opinion. All right, guys, let's close this out. Tell me if I'm alone here. No off season listeners, but shopping used to feel more fun before all the algorithm fed blah and the endless sea of dupes. But I have a confession. I found that fun feeling again on eBay. Because on eBay, it's not just shopping. It's a full on fashion pursuit. And when you find the thing that adrenaline hit is real, like when you score that rare Adidas collab that's lived on your mood board. Or the Dior saddlebag you ripped out of a magazine in 2007 and never got over. Or something like The Cecily Banson GT2160s that sold out in five seconds. Yeah, those. It's about the thrill of finding pieces that feel like. Like me. And I want you to find pieces that feel like you. There's always more to discover. Ebay has millions of pre loved finds from hundreds of brands backed by ebay. Authenticity guarantee. EBay. Things people love. Ready to order?
- [49:57]
Sabrina Merchant
Yes. We're earning unlimited 3% cash back on dining and entertainment with a Capital One Saver Card. So let's just get one of everything. Everything.
- [50:05]
Zena Kaeda
Fire everything. The Capital One Saver card is at table 27 and they're earning unlimited 3% cash back. Yes, chef.
- [50:13]
Sabrina Merchant
This is so nice.
- [50:14]
Ben Pickman
Had a feeling you'd want 3% cash back on dessert.
- [50:17]
Zena Kaeda
Ooh, tiramisu. Earn unlimited 3% cash back on dining.
- [50:20]
Ben Pickman
And entertainment with the Capital One Saver Card. Capital One.
- [50:23]
Sabrina Merchant
What's in your wallet? Terms apply.
- [50:25]
Ben Pickman
See capitalone.com for details.
- [50:27]
Zena Kaeda
Oh, hey.
- [50:27]
Ben Pickman
Welcome to gift wrapping.
- [50:28]
Zena Kaeda
Whoa.
- [50:29]
Ben Pickman
So is Saldana.
- [50:30]
Zena Kaeda
Hey, can you wrap these, please?
- [50:32]
Ben Pickman
Wow. IPhone 17s.
- [50:33]
Sabrina Merchant
You splurged at T Mobile. You can get four iPhone 17s on them.
- [50:37]
Zena Kaeda
The new center stage front camera is.
- [50:38]
Sabrina Merchant
Amazing for group selfies.
- [50:40]
Zena Kaeda
It's the perfect gift for everyone.
- [50:41]
Ben Pickman
I'm the worst. I only got my mom a robe.
- [50:43]
Zena Kaeda
Well, it's better than socks.
- [50:45]
Ben Pickman
So I have to trade in my old phone, right?
- [50:47]
Zena Kaeda
No, AT T Mobile.
- [50:48]
Sabrina Merchant
There's no trade ins needed when you switch.
- [50:50]
Zena Kaeda
Keep your old phone or give it as a gift.
- [50:53]
Ben Pickman
Incredible.
- [50:54]
Zena Kaeda
In fact, wrap up my old phone.
- [50:55]
Sabrina Merchant
Too for my aunt Rosa. Forget that. Aunt Liz will be jealous.
- [50:58]
Ben Pickman
Sounds like my family drama.
- [51:00]
Zena Kaeda
Oh, I got it. I'll give it to my abuela.
- [51:01]
Sabrina Merchant
I'll take reindeer paper with.
- [51:03]
Zena Kaeda
Hey, where are you going? T Mobile.
- [51:05]
Ben Pickman
The holidays are better. AT T Mobile get four iPhone 17s on us. No trade in needed when you switch plus four lines for just 25 bucks a line. And now T Mobile is available in.
- [51:13]
Sabrina Merchant
US cellular stores with 24 monthly bill.
- [51:16]
Ben Pickman
Credits and 4 eligible board ins on.
- [51:17]
Sabrina Merchant
Essentials for well qualified customers bought okay.
- [51:19]
Ben Pickman
Plus taxes, fees and 35 device connection charge credits ended pounds due if you pay off earlier. Cancel contact US Finance Agreement 256 gigabytes, $830 required.
- [51:25]
Zena Kaeda
Visit t mobile.com. Okay, it is rookie week in the wnba. Yes, I know. It's also offseason in the wnba. Little confusing, I know, but that didn't stop the league from designating this week for the rookies. I told y', all, the WNBA wants to be priority number one at all times. Okay, so we wanted to dive into a fun question they pose on their social media account. Who wins a game to 21, 2024 rookie team, or the 2025 rookie team? So, Ben, Sabrina, I ain't gonna lie to you. I feel like it's an easy answer, but I wanna know what you guys think first. See if we're aligned. Ben, let's start with you.
- [52:15]
Ben Pickman
My first question, is this a pickup game and are we allowing transition take fou?
- [52:22]
Zena Kaeda
Good, good. Follow up from last week's episode. That's just a plug. You guys need to go listen to last week and find out what, what rule would Ben take away from basketball if he could? It's 21 and a half court. 21 and a half court. What do you think, Sabrina?
- [52:38]
Sabrina Merchant
I think that sounds about right.
- [52:39]
Zena Kaeda
Yeah, yeah, 21.
- [52:40]
Sabrina Merchant
I think a full court, honestly.
- [52:41]
Ben Pickman
No, you gotta play full court. Come on, it's five.
- [52:44]
Zena Kaeda
Oh, it's five on five. You're right. That's true. That's true. That's a lot. Okay. Yeah, 21 full court, no take files.
- [52:49]
Ben Pickman
Sounds good. Yes. Please tune into our episode earlier this week. This is an interesting question. I think I'm going to go with the 2025 team. I'm going to take the 2025 class here.
- [53:02]
Zena Kaeda
Okay. Sabrina, what about you? Wait, before you break down.
- [53:05]
Ben Pickman
Oh, okay.
- [53:06]
Zena Kaeda
Before you break it down, I just want to see. Sabrina, what do you think?
- [53:09]
Sabrina Merchant
This is really challenging because a lot of the 2024 rookies had off seasons in 2025. And I'm wondering, like, if I look at the rookie stats of 2024 versus the rookie stats of 2025, I'm taking the 2024 team, right? Because I think everybody goes through a sophomore slump. And I don't want to just compare, you know, the high of these rookies to what the sophomore seasons looked like. But I look at, like historic season from Caitlin Clark, historic season from Angel Reese, you know, Rekia Jackson, walking bucket Leo Fibich, defensive monster in the WNBA finals. You know, like, that's a pretty damn good rookie class. So at the risk of underrating what 2025, provided I think I'm going to go 2024, but, like, by an edge, you know, like, not a very large margin here. We're talking like 21, 18 kind of situation.
- [53:55]
Zena Kaeda
Okay. Yeah, I agree. I agree. Ben, break your pick for 2025 down.
- [53:59]
Ben Pickman
Yeah, I just like a lot of the versatility of the 2025 team right now. I like what Citron and Iria Fenn. I like the chemistry there with, like a wing, a versatile wing and a versatile big. And I know, you know, Angel, Reese and Camilla play together, but I like, you know, having the chemistry of two players who are a little bit more switchable than those two are. I like just the uber athleticism of Domalonga. You know, I think Phoebus, like, you know, if I'm the 2024 team, I'm having Phoebus guard Paige Beckers, like, just have her length, chase Paige around and, you know, I do think that's a disruptive matchup, especially because, again, Phoebus older rookie than a lot of the other names that are playing in this game, right? Yeah, I mean, I think it's close. It's hard for me, as Sabrina said, to get some of the 2024 rookie classes, second seasons out of my head. Like, I looked at a bunch of numbers and I looked at a bunch of, you know, their respective seasons and last season. Like, if you're saying which rookie class of these two classes was more impactful in the W last year, it's not even close that it was these five. Paige, Sony, Janelle, Kiki and Damalongo. Like, and maybe I'm just, it's a little recency bias, but I guess I'm going to lean that way. Recency bias on the table.
- [55:24]
Zena Kaeda
I appreciate both breakdowns. This was not an easy challenge here to be able to delineate overall, though, if I'm looking at both teams and their rookie performances, I don't know if the 2024 team's defense is enough for what we saw 2025 do, particularly when I'm thinking about Caitlin Clark on the perimeter and Camilla inside. But it would be a close game. Absolutely. It'll be a close game. Okay, before we go, here's what you need to set your screens to this weekend. First up, USC versus Notre Dame. Both of these teams needing to redeem themselves after some top 25 losses last week. They're matching up on Friday, November 21st, ESPN 6:00pm Eastern Time. Ben, what's the next game on the docket?
- [56:11]
Ben Pickman
I will be at that next game. That is Michigan against UConn. A top 10 game Friday night, I believe it's 8:00pm Eastern at the Mohegan Sun Casino in Uncasville, Connecticut on Fox Sports.
- [56:24]
Zena Kaeda
And Sabrina, last but not least, it's a battle out in Kentucky.
- [56:28]
Sabrina Merchant
Yep, I love that little Bluegrass State battle. Kentucky at Louisville. They play each other every year on the cw, the home of all of your ACC basketball this season, if you're looking for it, that that's Saturday at 2:00pm Eastern. But yeah, I just love a little intra state rivalry that they all play each other every season even though they're not in the same conference.
- [56:45]
Zena Kaeda
I love Kentucky.
- [56:46]
Ben Pickman
Louisville.
- [56:46]
Zena Kaeda
I went to, when I got recruited by Kentucky, I went to a Kentucky Louisville football game and Kentucky won a last second field goal. It was insane. I've never jumped so much and screamed so much for a team that I did not know really or have an affinity to pull out the names on.
- [57:03]
Sabrina Merchant
The back of the jerseys, you know?
- [57:05]
Zena Kaeda
I know, right? Yeah, it was fun. It was fun. All right. Well, those are the games you gotta be watching. We're gonna break some of those down when we come back next week and that's when you guys have to also come back. And the easiest way to do that is to make sure that you're subscribed to this pod wherever you're listening and Also subscribe on YouTube where you can see our lovely faces and our reactions to Ben's lovely quips and drop us a line on socials and on our email nooffseasontheathletic.com if you've got more questions about what's going on with the cba. More questions that we probably can't answ what we're going to try about Project B and of course, college hoops. Send them our way for our mailbag and if you haven't already, please fill out the listener survey. Definitely want to hear more of what you guys want to hear of and then head on over to our partner, the Yahoo. Sports hub for more content. Sports.yahoo.com Womens Sports on behalf of the Athletic, Sabrina Merchant, Ben Pickman, I'm Zena Kada. Thanking you for listening and we'll see you guys next time. No off season is hosted by Zena Cata with Chantelle Jennings, Sabrina Merchant and Ben Pickman. It's produced by Tanika Burrell, our executive producer, Andrea B. Scott. Our theme music is by Marcus Bagala. Monica Compton is our video editor. Shannon Ryan is managing editor of women's basketball at the Athletic. Jessie Burton is our head of audio and Tim McMaster is director of audio Operations Operations.
- [58:44]
Ben Pickman
Banking with Capital One helps you keep more money in your wallet with no.
- [58:48]
Sabrina Merchant
Fees or minimums on checking accounts and no overdraft fees. Just ask the Capital One Bank Guy. It's pretty much all he talks about.
- [58:56]
Zena Kaeda
In a good way.
- [58:56]
Sabrina Merchant
He'd also tell you that this podcast is his favorite podcast too.
- [59:00]
Ben Pickman
Ah, really?
- [59:01]
Sabrina Merchant
Thanks.
- [59:02]
Zena Kaeda
Capital One Bank Guy.
- [59:03]
Sabrina Merchant
What's in your wallet? Term supply see capitalone.com bank capital1na member.
- [59:09]
Ben Pickman
FDIC hi, this is Joe from Vanta.
- [59:12]
Zena Kaeda
In today's digital world, compliance regulations are.
- [59:15]
Ben Pickman
Changing constantly and earning customer trust has never mattered more.
- [59:19]
Zena Kaeda
Vanta helps companies get compliant fast and.
- [59:21]
Ben Pickman
Stay secure with the most advanced, advanced AI, automation and continuous monitoring out there. So whether you're a startup going for your first SoC2 or ISO 27001 or a growing enterprise managing vendor risk, Vanta makes it quick, easy and scalable.
- [59:35]
Zena Kaeda
And I'm not just saying that because I work here. Get started@vanta.com Change isn't coming. It's already here. Commerce is going digital and tax complexity is multiplying. Tax rules evolve, rates shift, data floods in.
- [59:52]
Ben Pickman
Vertex connects it all.
- [59:55]
Zena Kaeda
A global tax compliance platform powered by tax ready data and intelligent systems.
- [60:01]
Ben Pickman
Smarter Tech Continuous tax compliance built in confidence.
- [60:06]
Zena Kaeda
Learn more@vertexinc.com.