Without Juju, Who’s the Face of Women’s College Basketball?

Summary

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Podcast Summary: No Offseason – The Athletic Women’s Basketball Show

Episode: Without Juju, Who’s the Face of Women’s College Basketball?
Date: October 31, 2025
Hosts: Zena Keita, Sabrina Merchant, Ben Pickman
Special Guest: Flau’jae Johnson (LSU Guard)

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Zena, Sabrina, and Ben tackle one of women's college basketball's pressing questions for the upcoming season: With Juju Watkins sidelined, who becomes the new face of women's college basketball? The team explores what it means to "carry the mantle" in college hoops, which players are poised to step up, and the shifting landscape that elevates individual stars. The episode includes a compelling interview with LSU’s Flau’jae Johnson, a star both on the court and in the NIL and music arenas.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. WNBA CBA Negotiations Update

Segment: 02:18–10:44

• Deal or No Deal: The WNBA and the players association have agreed to a 30-day extension on the collective bargaining agreement (CBA), moving the expiration to November 30.
  • “We have a deal. Sort of a kind of a deal.” – Ben Pickman (03:14)
• Why the Extension:
  • Allows continued league business: press conferences, player access to facilities, routine operations.
  • Demonstrates both sides’ good faith and desire to maintain the league’s current momentum.
  • Shorter than past extensions, indicating urgency due to critical offseason business—like the expansion draft and record free agency pool.
• Transparency:
  • Details on each side’s proposals remain scarce; journalists are actively seeking more specifics.
  • “This extension does allow certain league business to go through.” – Sabrina Merchant (04:10)
  • The extension is a positive signal, but negotiations remain tense; both sides want to avoid work stoppages.

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2. Unrivaled Women’s Pro League: Expansion & Star Signings

Segment: 10:44–15:40

• Coaching Updates:
  • Two new teams added: Breeze BC (Noelle Quinn as coach) and Hive BC (Rena Wakama as coach) join the league following successful inaugural season metrics.
  • Notable new coaches include Noelle Quinn, Rena Wakama, Reneka Hodges, and Zach O'Brien.
• Player Pool Grows:
  • Final three players added: Aari McDonald, Bec Allen, and Dominique Malonga (No. 2 pick, 2025 WNBA Draft).
  • Malonga’s injury recovery and contract situation in Turkey noted.
• League Improvements:
  • Enhanced health and performance infrastructure for players: each team gets dedicated trainers, performance coaches, and a larger practice space.
  • Back-to-back games eliminated to prioritize rest.
  • Commitment to player experience as league ambitions grow.

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3. Women’s Basketball Stars Crossing into Entertainment

Segment: 15:40–24:12

• Paige Bueckers Starring in a Movie:
  • Set to star in “Jess and Pearl,” an Apple Original, paralleling other recent athlete entertainment crossovers (Kelsey Plum, Angel Reese).
  • Discussion on athletes' ability to transition to acting—mixed track records, but excitement for Bueckers’ involvement and executive producer credit.
  • “I need Paige Beckers to make sure she’s got the best acting coach.” – Zena Keita (16:38)
• Impact:
  • Athletes now more visible in mainstream entertainment due to NIL (Name Image Likeness) and brand-building opportunities.

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4. Who’s the Face of Women’s College Basketball Now?

Segment: 24:12–53:00

a) Why the Obsession with a “Face” of the Sport?

• Historically, women’s college basketball was defined by iconic coaches (Pat Summitt, Geno Auriemma, Tara VanDerveer), not players.
• NIL’s advent has shifted the spotlight to players, allowing them to become marketable celebrities.
• “Coaches were synonymous with the program... now we’ve transitioned into—oh, players can be the faces of college basketball too.” – Sabrina Merchant (25:27)
• Players' longer tenures and stronger brands compared to men's side, where “one-and-done” is common.

b) What Makes Someone ‘The Face’?

• Must be elite: Star on a top team, producing and winning big games; needs high-level exposure deep into tournaments.

• Must embrace spotlight: Willingness to cross over into pop culture and media—brand deals, fashion weeks, commercials, social media.

• Visibility varies by generation: Older fans may value multi-positional bigs; Gen Z fixates on social media-savvy guards/forwards.

• Social & Media Impact: TV deals, virality, and curated personal branding critically shape status.

• “You kind of have to want to be the face of a sport to be the face of a sport.” – Ben Pickman (31:51)

• “It’s a tough conversation to wiggle your way into. Maybe we just have a year with no single face.” – Sabrina Merchant (37:12)

c) Front-Runners & Key Names

• Flau’jae Johnson (LSU): Poised as a frontrunner: All-American, national champion, rapper, major NIL presence, and massive social following (+2 million on Instagram).

  • “She is almost untouchable right now... she feels like she’s everywhere and also is, like, owning it casually.” – Zena Keita (38:58)

• Azzi Fudd (UConn):

  • Stamped early by Kobe Bryant and Steph Curry; increased profile after overcoming injury; seen as “America’s sweetheart,” especially with public personal stories.

• Other Contenders:

  • Sarah Strong (UConn): Considered likely the best player, but “not the most media-friendly.”
  • Olivia Miles (TCU): Now the central figure in her team post-transfer; unique play style garners attention.
  • Lauren Betts (UCLA), Hannah Hidalgo (Notre Dame), and rising freshmen like Aaliyah Chavez (Oklahoma) and Jazzy Davidson (USC).

• “It starts with being excellent at their jobs... but this year, maybe there’s no single face. Maybe it’s a battle for the crown.” – Sabrina Merchant (37:12)

d) The Changing Nature of Stardom

• The “face” may shift throughout the season, depending on tournament heroics, viral moments, or media narratives.
• Sometimes, a “face” may not even be the best player, just the most visible and relatable.

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On NIL & Changing Visibility:

  • “Players can be the faces of college basketball too, because they are marketable and accessible and visible in a way that they just weren’t able to be before NIL.”
    – Sabrina Merchant (25:27)

• Flau’jae Johnson’s Perspective:

  • “I know I have that responsibility, but I kind of just want my game to speak for itself.” (58:28)
  • On staying with LSU: “I’m loyal to the soil.” (55:50)
  • On balancing basketball and music:
    “In this generation... we let our phones use us when we should be using our phones to get to where we really want to go.” (62:47)
  • On Kim Mulkey:
    “She doesn’t care about what people think... she demands excellence.” (65:44)

• Generational Shifts:

  • “We engage with them in a different way. I think that also influences the face of the league conversation—who has a better social media following versus who has better positioning in these culturally relevant moments.”
    – Zena Keita (34:46)

• On Teamwork, Leadership, and Legacy:

  • “I have to be an active leader, lead by example, so they know what to do and do the right things on and off the court.”
    – Flau’jae Johnson (56:55)

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Special Segment: Interview with Flau’jae Johnson (LSU Guard)

(54:33–68:06)

Flau’jae discusses:

• How partnering with Team Galaxy (Samsung) aids her in managing athletics, music, and academics using tech for organization and recovery.
• Pride in completing four years at LSU with Coach Kim Mulkey (“loyal to the soil”).
• Leadership duties as a senior on a team with eight new players and the pressure to be more vocal.
• Taking inspiration from older players on self-care and setting an example for newcomers ("the freshmen call me grandma").
• Embracing her multifaceted platform: “Being a rapper, being an athlete, being one of the leaders in NIL, I really just want my game to speak for itself... there’s no pressure though.”
• Evolving as an artist and person; music as “release and therapy.”
• Giving back via the KL Foundation, inspired by family losses to cancer; stressed the importance of advocacy and helping the next generation.
• “Music is really my release and my therapy for everything that comes with basketball and the fame and everything else.” (64:34)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Topic | Timestamp | |--------------------------------------------------------|---------------| | WNBA CBA Extension and Implications | 02:18–10:44 | | Unrivaled League Expansion & Player/Coach Announcements| 10:44–15:40 | | Basketball Stars in Entertainment | 15:40–24:12 | | The “Face” of Women’s College Basketball Debate | 24:12–53:00 | | Flau’jae Johnson Interview (LSU Guard) | 54:33–68:06 |

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Conclusion: Who is the Face?

• The hosts argue there is no clear, undisputed “face” this year, unlike in previous seasons. Flau’jae Johnson and Azzi Fudd are positioned as co-front-runners—one for cultural splash and consistency, the other for mainstream, crossover, and narrative intrigue.
• The shifting criteria of “the face”—top performance and media savviness—reflect the changing landscape for college athletes, especially in the NIL era.
• The landscape is ripe for a surprise candidate to emerge, possibly via a breakout freshman or a dominant postseason run.

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Final Thoughts & Call for Listener Feedback

• The hosts invite listeners to chime in: Who do you think is the new face of women’s college basketball?
• Next episodes will dive deeper into on-court analysis and more off-court cultural conversations.

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This summary captures the episode’s in-depth breakdown of the college basketball stardom debate, the evolving visibility of athletes, and direct insights from one of the sport’s ascendant stars, Flau’jae Johnson.

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Transcript

[Zena Keda]

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[Zena Keda]

Hello, everyone, and welcome to no off season presented by ebay. I'm Zena Keda.

[Sabrina Merchant]

I'm Sabrina Merchant.

[Ben Pickman]

And I'm Ben Pickman.

[Zena Keda]

And today on the show, college women's basketball is just around the corner. And we've got one big question. With Juju Watkins out for the year, who's going to take her spot for the face of college hoops? We're going to break that down and what it takes to wear that title. And the players who are ready to step up and take the spotlight. And later, we'll be joined by someone that might Fit that description pretty well. All American, national champion, FIFA gold medalist, LSU guard, Flaw J. Johnson. But first, you know, we gotta take care of this business. Right now it's our recurring segment, Deal or no Deal. And as of right now, there is still no deal. But Ben, our personal private eye detective, helped break some news recently. Ben, what's happening in terms of the negotiations between the WNBA and the players?

[Ben Pickman]

Yeah, I would say, Zeno, we have a deal. Sort of a sort of kind of deal. Because sources with knowledge of the negotiations told both me and Sabrina that on Thursday night the WNBPA, the players association, did agree two terms with the WNBA on a 30 day extension on the current collective bargaining agreement. Basically having the current deal expiration date pushed back 30 days until November 30th. Now we had reported earlier this week that the league had offered the players union the extension. The two sides had continued to meet in person on Wednesday and Thursday at both the league offices and the players union offices. And then that all culminates in the PA accepting that offer to push the window back.

[Zena Keda]

Okay, so not a new deal, just the same deal, same deal, push forward. Okay. Had they not extended this, what would have happened?

[Sabrina Merchant]

So a few things could have happened had there been no extension. We could have had either a period of what's called status quo where there is no collective bargaining agreement, but the working conditions essentially remain the same in that players can still go into facilities, they can still have contact with the organizations, they can still get medical treatment and whatnot from their team providers. But there could have also been within that period of status quo. At either, at any moment, the player side could trigger a strike or the league side could trigger a lockout. Status quo doesn't really ensure anything. It just says for the time being things are the same. Or you know, we could have had immediately the league triggering a lockout or the players striking. But I think it's worth pointing out that like, even if we don't have a deal yet, this extension does allow certain league business to go through. Like I'm just looking through my email and I have three emails about coaches introductory press conferences next week. Right. And like if you have those coaches introductory press conferences, the players can't even be there if there's a lockout or strike. Right. So these are just like very regular league business that can happen now because there's an extension because the collective bargaining agreement remains in place for these 30 days while they're negotiating. These other things can still happen for.

[Ben Pickman]

The wnba and we should say like all along like we have said, the extension is really a public signaling of good faith and the intentions and directions of where these talks are going. Right. As Sabrina said, nothing really materially changes, but it does seem to suggest that at least some progress was made in recent days. Right. Even as of Tuesday night, we had still heard that the players union was still weighing whether to accept the extension offer or not. And now of course we know that they did earlier this week just as a sign of where things were, you know. So we reported that the league had to meet virtually with team front office personnel to discuss the logistics of a possible work stoppage. Right. And that call was made not for the expectation that there would be a stoppage, but just out of due diligence. Right. That this in theory could happen, there could be a lockout or a strike, you know, within the next few days. And so we need to plan and prepare accordingly. And so they did the back and forth this week. We saw a number of back and forth from the league and the Players Association. We know via league spokesperson or we were told that the WNBPA responded to a league proposal on Monday. We then reported on Thursday night that the WNBA responded with a counter proposal to that WNBPA proposal on Wednesday morning. Right. So that's a quick turnaround when you're thinking about one side issuing a counter proposal. But that also speaks to a desire to try and make progress on this agreement. So that is again also where we're at. We should say too, extensions not uncommon in collective bargaining. There is some historical precedent for this as well that the league's previous CBA, when it expired in 2019, the two sides agreed to a 60 day extension and then another two week extension before that. Now current agreement was finalized in Jan. 2020.

[Sabrina Merchant]

I think the timing of those extensions is interesting for this particular offseason because as you mentioned, Ben, it was a 60 day extension back in 2019 and only a 30 day extension this time around. And I wonder if that speaks to all of the business that has to get done this offseason that didn't have to get done back in 2019. You think about the expansion drafts in addition to again as we've pointed out, every veteran but two being free agents this upcoming off season. So there is a lot of work that needs to get done even once the CBA is finalized. So I Wonder if this 30 day extension versus a 60 day extension last time is a signal that hey, like we need to continue to make progress at a quicker rate than has historically been done before.

[Zena Keda]

Well, speaking of the progress. I think one of the things that is also kind of lingering out there is we heard what the WNBA had offered the union and the players, but we never heard what was in that counter proposal. Did you guys have a chance to get any information regarding that? Is there a chance that we'll ever learn at this point where they are at in these conversations?

[Ben Pickman]

Yeah, I mean, it's definitely something we continue to ask about and try and learn about. And trust me, we're doing what we can to try and nail down specifics on these proposals. I would say we're light on a lot of the proposal details right now from. From both sides, frankly. But I do think it is a sign of at least some good faith progress on some measures that the union said, hey, we want to accept this extension offer and continue the current agreement because that is not something they contractually were under any obligation to do.

[Zena Keda]

Okay, so it looks like Halloween isn't going to be as scary as we thought it might be. But now it looks like our Thanksgivings are going to need a little bit more gratitude because this is just going to, you know, it's just a little bit kicked down the road. But as Sabrina was mentioning, there's a lot of business that's going to happen in the next few weeks in terms of these announcements and players being able to at least meet potential coaches that they could be playing for. Again, we have no idea where everything's gonna shake out, but this deal does look like the communication going back and forth is going to continue for the time being. Anything we should be on the lookout for as we get closer to that next deadline?

[Sabrina Merchant]

Well, I think this extension is a sign that at least things are progressing right. As Ben said, there was no obligation from the players union side or from the league side to offer the extension or accept the extension. So the fact that they are continuing this process for at least the next 30 days is a good indicator that, like, they expect to get to a deal. Right. Like when we had Aaron Drake on the show, she said, like, we believe October 31st is a real deadline. We are treating it like a real deadline. And now November 30th is that real deadline. So I think the shortened period of the extension gives me a little bit of hope. Like, you wouldn't ask for an extension if you didn't think that you could actually make progress within that window.

[Ben Pickman]

And I think I would just add, like, big picture. I think all along, you know, the two sides recognize that they want to continue the momentum of this moment in the wnba, that both sides, despite the animosity, despite the public barbs that have gone back and forth, do want to continue to play basketball. They don't want to miss games and, you know, adversely impact the players or the fans and any of the league stakeholders. Right. They want to get this deal done eventually. The question is, who has more leverage, who might have to make more concessions than the other side? How does this negotiation play out? We don't know the answers to any of those questions. And that is why, you know, it still has been a tense negotiation process and I'm sure it still will be, frankly, in the coming months because there is a lot to do and there's still a lot of ground to make up. But it is important to remember that both sides do actively, you know, they want to continue this moment and we should be reminded of that throughout this entire process.

[Zena Keda]

Well, I appreciate you, Ben, Sabrina, for being in the trenches, getting this information to us, keeping us up to date. This is going to be a recurring segment because there still technically is no new deal. It's just an extended deal for now. But let's shift on over to another women's basketball league that still has some new news to unleash amidst all of this drama. And I'm talking about Unrivaled. Of course. Now we got some coaching news coming out of the unrivaled league. Unrivaled ain't letting this drama in the WNBA keep them from stopping or locking out or doing any other things. Okay? They're keeping their business going and they crushed their inaugural season with higher than expected viewership and revenue. There's been so much success, it sparked an early expansion. Two new teams joining the league, Breeze BC and Hive bc. And amidst the drama of this other women's basketball league, Unrivaled is like, hey, we're going to be doing some things with these two new teams. Ben, break it down. What's going on with Unrivaled?

[Ben Pickman]

Yeah, there's a bunch of developments in Unrivaled that I think we should talk about. Cena, let's start with the coaching front. They announced are eight head coaches on Thursday afternoon for the upcoming season. Four of them are returners Teresa Weatherspoon, Nola Henry, D.J. sackman and Andrew Wade. And then they announced four other new head coaches to Unrivaled this year. Those coaches will be Noel Quinn, the former Seattle Storm head coach, Chicago sky assistant coach Reno Wakama, Connecticut sun assistant coach Reneka Hodges, and New York Liberty or recent New York Liberty assistant coach Zach o' Brien so those will be your four head coaches that are joining the league this year. Quinn will be the head coach of Breeze and Reno will be the head coach of Hive. The two new teams that are entering this year. Hodges will replace Adam Harrington of Phantom and Zach o' Brien will replace Phil Handy as the head coach of Miss. So those are your coaching updates for next year.

[Zena Keda]

Shout out to Rena. We were both Gardner flames back in North Carolina. Love the the small little group of 919 showing up on the big stage here. That is awesome. I love the fact that new coaches are getting opportunities. Noel Quinn showing back up into the space. You know, as a coach, this is going to be fun. I'm really excited to see, you know, who she ends up getting to coach in that space. But what else is happening because there's, there's more to it in terms of the players, right? The player pool that's been going on. Tell us a little bit more about that.

[Ben Pickman]

That is true. They also announced their final three players in the pool for this season. Those three players will be Arie McDonald, the Indiana Fever guard, veteran guard who is coming off of a foot injury but is expected to be healthy and back ready to go when the unrivaled season begins in January. Beck Allen, the veteran wing, another, you know, very professional player, professional shooter should definitely help on the wing and the headliner to this trio. Dominique Malanga, the number two pick in the 2025 WNBA Draft. She will be taking part in unrivaled this season. And yes, we talked about that. She had a wrist injury, a wrist surgery. But again she is also expected to be healthy and ready to go when that second season begins. That is a big news addition for the league in year two.

[Sabrina Merchant]

Well, Malanga being an unrivaled certainly brings some intrigue to the fact that she is no longer in her contract at Fenervahce, which I can see why the Turkish club was a little interested in her terminating that contract without what they consider to be just cause. So that's definitely something we're going to be looking into considering she is still going to be playing during this WNBA offseason.

[Ben Pickman]

Yeah, I think it certainly is a little interesting. It's certainly intriguing that she is joining the league in their second season. I will also say as it relates to their second season, there are some other developments from unrivaled or that we will see in unrivaled this year. And I did talk to Claire dewelius, their general manager of the league about this for a story on the site that, you know, they heard a lot of feedback from players as they prepare for the second season. Brandon Glasheen, Brandon talked about that on the podcast when he was on a couple weeks ago. Among them was trying to, you know, kind of continue to develop in their training staff and injury prevention and take health of considerations into players as a priority. So last year they had three trainers for the six teams. Now every team is going to have their own head trainer, their own training staff. Each team is going to have their own strength and performance coach. Each team is also going to have a player development coach for each of their clubs. They're even taking over another studio on the lot where they play. So the space, the literal space that they are going to have this year is growing significantly in size. They're going to add a practice court. As a result, the training room is going to more than double in size. And as we've talked about before as well, they're going to eliminate back to backs this year as a function of going four nights on the calendar. So a lot of expansion in the league more broadly. It's not just the two teams. It's not just adding four coaches. It's not just adding the three players I mentioned, but again, a continued investment in trying to improve the player experience as they begin their second season.

[Zena Keda]

They are building this out. I mean, talk about trying to set a standard. It's really impressive what they're doing. And I already know. I'm so excited to tune in more nights like already like they're finding more steps or more opportunities through a busy off season. And yeah, that dull period. If you guys are NBA fans listening to that dull period in January, February, up until all star, don't worry, Unrivaled's got you. Okay? You'll be good with a lot of great basketball, both college and of course professional for women's basketball. So let's get into from the court to the big screen because there's some new news coming out we've heard of. You know, Kelsey Plum was in Happy Gilmore 2. She also was like on a TV series. Municipal starter this year. Angel Reese in the Adris Elba led House of Dynamite. We know that there are stars budding off the court from these basketball players. But now it looks like it's Paige Becker's turn and she is taking her game off the court. She's being set to star in a new sports film called Jess and Pearl, an Apple original film. Now, the context of this film, Sabrina, I'm asking you to break it down for me, I mostly am just like in the time that you guys have spent covering Paige, maybe you have gone through a few tiktoks, you've gone through social media. I didn't know that Paige was an actress. I didn't know that this was a thing that was on the radar for Paige. So this is actually very new for me to kind of consider and try to put my mind around. I just really hope it doesn't end up being one of those situations where, you know, sometimes you get athletes in these movies and it's just like the monotone voice, it's like reading the lines and it's just like there's no intonation to it. I need Paige Beckers to make sure she's got the best acting coach. But did you guys see this coming? Like, what was in the tea leaves when it comes to Paige Beckers becoming potentially a movie star?

[Sabrina Merchant]

Well, I'm curious about the timeline of all this because, you know, on subject of unrivaled, Paige Beckers is obviously one of the players in season two of unrivaled. So it's not as if she has a ton of free time until that season starts in Miami in early January. So I unclear, you know, when this project is going to be taken off, like if she's going to film it start during this offseason if it's going to like bleed into the unrivaled season if it's going to start during next offseason. Lord knows I do think it's, you know, pretty par for the course with these athletes in their single LED futures that like, she's playing a character that probably is pretty similar to herself and that she, you know, develops a friendship with a player, you know, during their high school AAU days and sort of the business and the competition of basketball like threatens to turn that into a rivalry. And where does it go from there? I feel like I don't know which character she is probably jets, considering it's first in the name of the title. But it probably bears some similarities to Paige Becker's, you know, growing up, which I think is the right way for an athlete to break into, you know, movies because you just, you gotta go with what you know, right?

[Flaje Johnson]

Absolutely.

[Zena Keda]

Can't go outside your comfort zone too much, which I feel like I just commend all these players for going out their comfort zones. The commercialization of all of these athletes has been surreal to watch. And this is like, this isn't a low budget situation. I mean, like the producer of White Lotus is gonna be producing this. There's. You know, I love that Paige Beckers is also an executive producer behind this, being able to put her stamp on it from the storytelling. But, Ben, who do you think they should cast around Paige to kind of help?

[Ben Pickman]

I'm the wrong person to ask this question. Xena, this is not a Broadway lover. No, you start. But you started. You started to rattle off some of those other. Like, I've seen Happy Gilmore, too. I did see the Kelsey Plum cameo in that. Some of those other projects that you mentioned, I have not seen. Like, you know, I've seen some. I mean, I want to know from you, like, who are your favorite athlete turned actors? Who, like, who do you think are your best athlete turn actors? Are there specific basketball players who go into movies that you think this person did a great job? This person maybe did a not so great job. Like, you're. I think you're more of an expert on this than. Than me. Xena. Or you might have some more taste.

[Sabrina Merchant]

This is, as Zena's thinking, I want to throw in a couple. I thought LeBron James was very good in Trainwreck. Not as good in Space Jam 2, but I thought he was very.

[Zena Keda]

When you said LeBron, I was like, yeah, Space Jam is questionable, but okay. Yep.

[Sabrina Merchant]

And Hustle. Right. Juanja Hernan Gomez, I thought was in that movie. I realize I'm limited to basketball players here, but I think those two stand out as athletes who made the transition pretty well. You know, Anthony Edwards has said that he wants to star in a movie with, like, Timothee Chalamet. They want to do a remake of. What was the movie? He said some Denzel movie. But yeah, I think Anthony Edwards probably has the good. Not Training Day as well.

[Zena Keda]

Oh, maybe it was Training Day.

[Sabrina Merchant]

Yeah, I think it was Training Day.

[Zena Keda]

That's actually hilarious. So, okay. I was gonna say Anthony Edwards. There's a. Where was that Netflix movie Hustle.

[Ben Pickman]

Right?

[Zena Keda]

Yeah, Hustle, obviously. Yeah. So Hustle. I thought he was a great villain in that mo. I haven't seen, like, a lot of projects. I've seen clips. But Iman Shumpert is a really good actor. Also really great dancer, which we all found out on Dancing with the Stars. Pretty awesome. I'm trying to think of women's basketball players or stars that were, like, awesome. The only movie that comes to mind when I'm like, best basketball performances that were actually, like, pretty bad. But it was so bad. It was good. What was that Disney original movie with the twins that was based on a true Story double teamed for the new Gen Z listeners. You gotta go back and find it in the annals. Find it in the archives, okay? Cause when I tell you it's such a good bad movie, but it's so good. It's a great, great women's basketball movie. Okay, I clearly don't have any women's basketball players. We're gonna think about this, guys. Perfect opportunity for engagement. Drop in the comments like, let us know who are we forgetting that has transitioned perfectly from the basketball court to the movies. From the women's side particularly. Tell me if I'm alone here, no off season listeners, but shopping used to feel more fun before all the algorithm fed blah and the endless sea of dupes. But I have a confession. I found that fun feeling again on ebay. Because on ebay it's not just shopping, it's a full on fashion procedure. And when you find the thing that adrenaline hit is real, like when you score that rare Adidas collab that's lived on your mood board or the Dior saddlebag you ripped out of a magazine in 2007 and never got over. Or something like The Cecily Banson GT2160s that sold out in five seconds. Yeah, those. It's about the thrill of finding pieces that feel like me. And I want you to find pieces that feel like you. There's always more to discover. Ebay has millions of pre loved fines from hundreds of brands backed by ebay authenticity guarantee eBay things people love.

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[Zena Keda]

Well, let's keep this going because we know Paige Beckers was a face of the NCAA for a while. And that's gonna be our main conversation today. For the last several years, we feel like this preoccupation in all sports, really. But we've now seen in women's college basketball with identifying that one star, that one person that kind of represents this sport. We had Caitlin for a while, and then it was Caitlin and Angel, particularly when they were battling. And then there was Paige and then it was juju on hor. But we know with juju being sidelined this season, as she still heals from her torn ACL from last year, there's a question, who is going to walk into the spotlight and claim the mantle as the face of women's college basketball? So we're going to dig into that question, but y' all know, we always got to set it up, got to give some context. Okay. And so I think the first question we want to ask ourselves is like, why is there a need for this? And particularly, we know we've seen it in the pro leagues, we've seen it in the male leagues, but it doesn't seem like it's been needing to be a player in women's college basketball for so long until, like, in more recent years. So, Sabrina, I'm gonna start with you. Like, what are your thoughts on, like, this new found, like, focus on trying to find a face of women's college basketball. Like, where does that come from? Where do you see the shift in this?

[Sabrina Merchant]

Well, I think for so long, college programs have more so been defined by their head coaches, not so much the individual players because you do have regular turnover, right? Even before transferring. You know, you only get a player for four years tops, right. Whereas a college coach can be there for eons, really. Like, you think about the faces of women's college basketball, and that would have been Pat Summitt and Muffet McGraw and Gino Auriemma, you know, Tara Vanderveer. Right. Like coaches who defined eras of college basketball and were super successful and players wanted to play for them as much as they wanted to play for the program. Right? Like they were synonymous with the program and they were the ones who you marketed, right? Like, if UConn was playing Stanford, it was Gino versus Tara, you know, Geno versus Pat, Geno versus Muffin. A lot of Geno versus so clearly Geno figures prominently into this. And I think, you know, even though players are still transient, right? Like, you still have the maximum of four years because blessfully, we were done with the COVID years and you still have transferring. So it's not as if players are in one spot, you know, for the entire four seasons. But the institution of NIL, to me, has just made players a commodity in a way that they weren't before. And so you could see, like, coaches building a brand for themselves that players really couldn't just because they were limited by these rules of amateurism. Right. And now that we see players on commercials, you know, in movies, right. Like doing all of these things outside of basketball that make them celebrities of their own. Right. Like, I think this is sort of when we've transitioned into. Oh, like players can be the faces of college basketball too, because they are marketable and accessible and visible in a way that they just weren't able to be before nil. I think.

[Ben Pickman]

I think that's a really, really good point, Sabrina. And I think honestly, the question or the point about coaches being the faces of a program, that applies to a lot of different college sports, right? It's certainly something you think about in college football, say, when you have a Nick Saban being the face of Alabama, for instance. You know, it's just one example of a longtime head coach who achieves so much success. So often those longtime head coaches become the faces of programs. I think you hit the nail on the head with the NIL component as well. Just players becoming brands and more part of our lives and part of the ecosystem and the cultural zeitgeist than ever before. I do think what is so interesting, though, about women's college basketball and some of the faces that we have had in recent years is, you know, we've had superstar players before in the sport. Your Sabrina Unescu, your Brianna Stewart's, your Asia Wilson's, you know, in the Pre kind of 2020 era. But I think what is sort of interesting about some of the more recent, quote unquote, faces of the sport in women's college basketball is oftentimes they are the faces of college basketball more broadly, both like men's and women's. Like, I think the two things go hand in hand right now in this era where. In this era of men's college basketball, where there is so much turnover, where there are so many players who are one and done, where there seemingly is a lack of huge college stars who then transitioned to the NBA. You know, the Caitlin Clarks, the Juju Watkins, the Angel Reese's, the Alia Boston too. Like, those people have been in our lives in college for much longer. You know, they haven't transferred, they haven't bopped around from school to school. And that I think also leads to them becoming not only faces of the sport that they play, but faces of their universities, faces of the college basketball ecosystem more generally.

[Sabrina Merchant]

I think that's such an interesting point, especially like when you consider Paige, because you think about the last five years of UConn, like the men's team won two national titles more than the women's team won. And you'd be hard pressed to find any men's player on the UConn Huskies, even the two time national champions that is anywhere as close to as popular as Paige Baggers.

[Zena Keda]

No, not at all. Stefan Castle, Donovan Clegan, like, shout out to y' all being in the NBA, but like, you are not touching the numbers that Paige is doing in terms of just pure motion and commercialization. All of this is fascinating. And I'm thinking as you guys are talking from a basketball perspective of like recruitment. So when you were getting recruited, you didn't go because this player was there, you went because a coach was there and what they were known for in terms of like their success rate in developing talent, who were they able to attract to their school? And yes, you looked at Gino Oriemma because of the superstars that he was able to attract to UConn or Atara Van der Veer. If you were a post player, that was a goal, right? To be able to go play for a program like Stanford. And so it was always about the coaches. From the perspective of they've been associated with these brands for so long, but their style has also been associated with the brand of the basketball that you hope to play as a future baller in the ncaa. It was rarely like, oh, I want to go to this school, because Briana Stewart went there, because it was many, Brianna Stewart's, right? There were so many different and depending on what position you played, what player you were looking up to in terms of like where they went to school, and what you wanted to follow in the footsteps of. So it was always this legacy aspect of the school and the coach and what the program represented versus the individual players. Whereas nowadays people want to go to South Carolina because Asia Wilson went there. Right. People want to go to particular schools because there's legacies built by the players. And I think there's also this affinity for players who stay with a program for a long time. We see that on the pro level. Sue Bird with Seattle, Diana Taurasi with Phoenix. Like, there's so much respect for that. And so now we're looking at today's ncaa and there are some players that have stayed with their programs for a long time, some players that have switched around, but there's a lot of players that want to be in that position of face of the league. So what do you think are some of the factors that go into a player being elevated to that status?

[Sabrina Merchant]

I think they have to be really good. First of all, I feel like I'm always the one who's like, win the numbers, period. Yeah. You want to be successful, right? Like, you've got to be a player who produces. You have to be a player who is on a winning program. You know, for better or worse, a player who's scoring, like leading the nation in scoring on a team that doesn't get out of the first weekend of the tournament is not going to be the face of college basketball. Which is why kudos to Niall Assin forgetting on South Carolina and you know, potentially putting yourself in this discussion. But I think, I think production, being on a winning team, advancing far in the tournament, all of those things are sort of prerequisites for making yourself a face of college basketball.

[Ben Pickman]

I mean, I think too, you kind of have to want to be the face of a sport, to be the face of a sport that it's not just about how good or how talented you are. It is how you embrace the spotlight with which you are afforded. Right. And how you cross over as a result into other spaces that transcend the sport that you play. Right. I think in the context of women's college basketball right now, so many of the. The faces of the sport or who have been, they have teams around them. We see them do a lot of brand appearances. We see them in commercials. We see them, you know, New York City Fashion Week, sitting courtside at WNBA games, at other high profile events. Like, I think having that cultural crossover is really, really important for that player, whoever it is or whoever it has been before.

[Zena Keda]

Yeah. Being positioned right, whether it's by your team, by yourself. Like, that feels like it's really important. It's interesting when you look at what the general zeitgeist of NCAA basketball would say is the face of the league. I really think it depends on who you're asking. Like in conversations with other millennial watchers of NCAA basketball, folks that have played and have left or are just now fans of the sport because it has blown up, a lot of folks have more of an affinity towards bigs. If you ask people who's the face of the WNBA right now, a lot of them will probably say a power forward or some big right. Asia Wilson, Afisa Collier, et cetera. In that millennial older generation, I don't know if that's because of the style of the game. We appreciate someone that can do a little bit of everything versus a lot of the gen zers. If you ask them who are the faces of the wnba, for example, they'll go with a guard, they'll go with the Caitlin Clark, they'll go with the Paige Beckers. And that same thing applies to the ncaa. Like I would say Sarah Strong is a growing face of the league, and I want someone like a Joyce Edwards to be able to pop up as a face of the league. But Lauren Betts in that conversation, right? I'm like, I have an affinity towards these bigs. However, high schoolers are like, no, give me Az Fudd, give me juju, give me any of these point guards, these guards that are playmakers versus just, you know, the bigs and such. So I feel like there's also an aspect of like, what do we value in terms of the style of the game that they play? Whoever the potential face is. But I don't know. It's interesting how that breaks down too, from a generational perspective. We might not be seeing these players in the same capacity. Some of these younger guys, our younger fans, are seeing them on TikTok and social media, and they're completely enthralled by them from that perspective versus us. We're seeing them on commercials, we're seeing Forbes articles being written about them, we're seeing them in these photo shoots with particular talkings.

[Sabrina Merchant]

But it's very accurate.

[Zena Keda]

But it's true. But it's so true, right? We completely. We engage with them in a different way. And I think that also influences the face of the league conversation. Who has a better social media following versus who has better positioning in these particularly cultural relevant moments. How would you guys say? TV deals, TV exposure, social media? Like, how does that play into this conversation, too.

[Ben Pickman]

I mean, I think it plays a big role. But the thing I keep coming back to that I think is so interesting is just how good of a player. Like, I appreciate that Sabrina threw out at the very beginning that you need to be a good player. But I think what is so, like, what sometimes is fascinating to me about face of the league conversations is there's a certain tier, a certain level you have to get to. But I don't think you have to be the best player to be the face of a sport. I think you need to have moments like high profile, high leverage moments, that you thrive in key situations so that the casual consumer recognizes your greatness. But I don't think you need to be the best player in a sport. Now, I know in recent memory you might say, well, Juju Watkins, Caitlin Clark, Aaliyah Boston, Paige Beckers, like those were the best players in the sport. But I think to me, that is, I mean, it's hard to say exception to the rule, because I just rattled those players off and they've been the best for the past couple years.

[Sabrina Merchant]

Proof of your concept?

[Ben Pickman]

Well, I mean, I think about it this year, like, this year, the two players that I think are the faces of women's college basketball, I don't think either of them are the best players in women's college basketball. Right. I think Az Fudd and Flage Johnson are the two players best positioned to be the faces of the sport this year. I think both of them are in the top 10 to 15 in terms of best players in women's college basketball this year. I think both of them are in the top 10, say in terms of WNBA draft picks going forward. But I think both of them, you know, we've seen them in moments. We've seen Flage in NCAA tournament games. We've seen Easy Fudd most recently be a most outstanding player in the Final Four. But what makes them faces of the sport is that they've had that crossover into other spaces. They've done that without being the very best player, but they've still also had great moments. So maybe it's this year is the exception to the rule that has been in the past. But that is, I think, what makes this year so interesting or a little bit different.

[Sabrina Merchant]

Yeah, I think the thing with this season is, you know, the. The best player. I think. I don't know if we all did, but we have come to some sort of consensus that Sarah Strong is going to be the best player in the country this season just based on what she did her freshman year and the potential UConn has going forward. And Sarah Strong, as Ben mentioned, to be the face of the sport, you gotta want it. And Sarah Strong is not the most media friendly. She's not the most loquacious, for lack of a better word, when it comes to talking. She doesn't exactly have a huge presence beyond the fact that she's just really freaking good at basketball. And I think that sort of prevents her from being marketable in the same way that Paige Beckers was before her at UConn. But that's kind of what makes this season, I think, doesn't even have a face, right? Because I think you have to be a top five player at the very least to be in this conversation. And if not of those are really, you know, claiming the mantle in the same way that a Paige or a juju or a Caitlyn did, then, like, do we just have a year where maybe it's just a lot of people contending for the crown and there is no single one face of college basketball? Or is someone going to emerge? Like, you know, two years ago, like, we had an idea that juju was gonna be very good, but we didn't know that she was gonna be that good. Right? And so, like, is someone who would surprise us in a sense and sort of, you know, come into this conversation that we haven't thought about. Because I kind of think, like, there's a really high bar for how good you have to be the face of a sport, right? Like, we talk about, you know, Caitlin Clark in the WNBA and like, maybe it fell early. First team all WNBA is a rookie, right? Like top five player, you know, And I think if you're a first team all American, that's sort of like where I set, you know, my bar of like, who could be a face of a sport. And I just think that, like, it's. It's a tough conversation to wiggle your way into. And maybe we're just at a point where, like, you know, television network is going to throw out some games and like, see what. What sticks, right? And we'll just see, like, who sort of resonates because it is a far more open field, I think, than it has been in years past.

[Zena Keda]

Yeah. I think what's so interesting about this, I don't know how many times we've said interesting today, actually. This is all very intriguing, but what I love about it is you guys have laid it out really beautifully. You've got to be really, really good. And you also have to want it And I think that that is kind of the reason why Sarah Strong, like, I'm gonna have to push a bit to the back regardless, because we barely get three words sometimes out of Sarah Strong in interviews. Like, you know, she's not that person that's looking to be positioned, at least not yet. And she's really just focused on the basketball. But, Ben, to your point, these moments, right, there's gotta be intrigue. We've been saying the word interesting. And intrigue. There's gotta be intrigue when they're on these big stages of, oh, I want to see what they're doing. And it's not just the basketball. It's just because you've also been seeing them in all these other circumstances, and you're just like, I wonder what's going on with Az Fudd. I wonder what's going on with Flaje Johnson. Let's see, you know, how are they balancing it? All right. I think that there's also this element of that, too. So let's talk about it. Because Flaw J. Johnson, to me, feels like the face. And that's because we have seen her team excel. We have seen her excel as a member of this team. And she is also almost untouchable right now when it comes to the numbers she's doing, whether it's the deals, whether it's the amount of verticals and lanes that she's in, she feels like she's everywhere and also is, like, owning it casually. She's very much. It was Paige and her for a while, right? We've kept seeing Paige and her pop up at every event together as college kids, and now she's here in this space by herself. And I feel like it feels pretty. It's pretty obvious that it's her. But then there's also AZ that's right there. I just literally read an article about AZ Fudd this morning about her learning how to do her hair and taking advantage of that through an internship that she had in college. I feel like she's creeping up there, too. What's it gonna take, I think, to be able to announce one of an Az or a Flaje as a face of the league over the other?

[Sabrina Merchant]

Well, I'll start with. I think you go back to the 2025 NCAA tournament, and the three athletes, I would say, who were the most prevalent on commercials, just visibility would have been Paige, Juju, and Flaje, period. Well, two of them are gone. So that just sort of links the vacuum for Flage Johnson. But in terms of just the you know, being the face of the sport, being the best player in the sport, or not necessarily the best, but among the best in the sport. Flage has never been the best player on her team. Right. Like you had Angel Reese, you had Anissa Morrow. And so this is a new situation for her where she's going to be called upon to do a lot more for lsu. We'll get to that with az too. She's obviously never been the best player on her team and I don't think she will be this year. But there is at least an opening for Faje. If LSU does well, a lot of the credit is going to go to her. And that program is popular. Kim Moki obviously draws a lot of attention. I think there is a chance there if she takes a step forward as a player to step into this space where she already has the popularity part, now she gets to mix in, oh, I'm actually going to be one of the best players in the game too. That mix, I think, is sort of unique to, you know, the rest of the players we're going to be talking about here.

[Ben Pickman]

And I think to me, Sabrina, the case for Easy is the cultural crossover that she has right now entering this season. It is all of the appearances, all of the magazine covers, all of the panels, all of that, all of whatever that encompasses that she has done over really the last year, last year and a half that I think really adds to her case as being one of the. The voices of the sport is kind of the, in some respects, like, you know, the elder states person of the sport, like through no fault of her own, often because of injury. She's been around women's college basketball too, for a very long time, developing into this household name. And yes, she might not be the best player in the sport, she might not be the best player on her own team, but I do think she has that kind of household cachet, that household name recognition that, you know, a lot of other people don't necessarily. I mean, we saw it Thursday morning. The latest example, her being on the COVID of Slam magazine, doing another photo shoot for another magazine cover is just another example of the kind of cultural reach that she has. Now, look, I can't really mount a strong case too, though, against Flage Johnson here. I mean, she has three times as many influen Instagram followers as Az Fudd. We've seen her do rap songs with Lil Wayne. We've seen her do, I mean, Sabrina, you and I have seen her work the All Star game twice, party circuit twice, and just Know that, like, in the women's basketball space, getting flashy Johnson to an event is a really big deal for a lot of brands, a lot of partners who are putting on events. So, like, I don't really. And maybe it sounds like a comment, I don't really have a good pushback, maybe Xena does for why she isn't necessarily the face in terms of Flage too.

[Zena Keda]

Yeah, okay, but.

[Ben Pickman]

But I don't think there is a clear emergence between one of the two of them either. And I think, honestly, that's the thing that, you know, I'm just watching for this year to see. Does one of them really emerge as the central figure throughout this season? That's a big question that we have.

[Zena Keda]

Entering the air, and it's a great question, and I will say so. There's so many things that are popping in my head for the both of them. So for Flage, there's two things that play into her emergence to me as a face of the league. Number one are the numbers, right? It's the sheer consistency with which we're seeing her. It's the fact that she has 2 million Instagram followers versus anyone else being a million or less in her space of the ncaa. It is the cultural crossover, as you mentioned, and it's again, it's the swagger with which she, you know, moves. She's on these big platforms like bet, like these All Star Games and being able to perform. I remember, I think she performed for like, Amazon prime at one point. Like, was the main performer that they. They chose. Like, it was like, whoa. These are big moments that Flage Johnson is a part of. Where Az Fudd gets an opportunity for me, are two ways. AZ was one of the first players to be stamped by two, like, very big basketball players in the world of basketball. Kobe Bryant was her mentor and someone she trained with. And then also Steph Curry, right? There was that association with him as well. And so there's always been from the start of Azy's career, like, oh, she's stamped by some of the best basketball players to ever do it. And then she got hurt and it kind of gave a lull in her kind of growth as the face of the league. While the names of like, a Flaje Johnson were being consistently grown and being discussed. So there was a little bit of a lull. Now you get the opportunity. You look at Flaudja and Azy, in the last year, there's been this emergence of az, in my opinion, as like, America's sweetheart. She's cute she's sweet. You know, the friendship that we now know is a relationship with Paige Becker. She endeared herself into the American populace from that perspective and in a way that flaujay did not. She didn't have that kind of dynamic with anyone on her team that people were like, really cheering on and being behind. Like, there's an aspect of like, I know that Flaw J Johnson is dating someone that plays for lsu. I don't know who that is, but, like, there's a level of like, we know AZ's personal life as much as we know her basketball life and her commercial life. That's not the same way that we know Flaw J's commercial life and we know her basketball life. And I think that has kind of leveled up AZ in a way. I'm moving the mic as I'm doing this, but has leveled up AZ to catch up with Flage in a way because we feel like we kind of know her on a personal level.

[Sabrina Merchant]

Yeah, I think there's a lot of other players, you know, who could find themselves in this conversation just because, like Ben, I think we can make good cases like you did for AZ and Flagey, but I don't think they're like, airtight in the way that they were with Juju and Paige and Caitlyn before her, you know, so you think about if somebody is just like truly excellent and just the kind of player you have to turn on and watch every single game, like Sarah Strong it if Lauren Betts enters that conversation, if Hannah Hidalgo has another season where she's just an absolute menace on both ends of the court. If there are people who become appointment viewing on television, I think that helps them sort of transcend whatever marketability or other personality questions they might have. Because I do think first and foremost this is a basketball conversation. I just think about all the faces of sport and it really just starts with them being excellent at their jobs. And again, this is college basketball, not actually a job, but whatever. So I think that there are a lot of other players who could find themselves like, you know, in this discussion just because, like, as much as I believe in, like the potential of AZ and Flagey, DB household names, they just haven't risen to the same level as the players before them that we've talked about in the last five years.

[Zena Keda]

Where does Olivia Miles fall in this?

[Ben Pickman]

I think that's a great question because I was going to bring her up because to me she seems like another player who seemingly is now in an opportunity, like a place school wise, where she can take another level in recognition in just widespread fame renown across the sport, because, look, Olivia Miles might have been, you know, the number three pick in the WNBA draft last year. She goes back to school, she says, I want to get healthier. I want to continue to, you know, develop the mental side of my game. I want to feel like I am 100% physically, mentally having. Coming on off an ACL injury of her own not that long ago. And so she transfers from Notre Dame to tcu, where really, the orbit, like she is the sun and all the planets really revolve around her in this analogy. Right. Like, she is at the center of everything that they do. She is going to make that program like they're going to shine as bright as she does. And so we know Olivia Miles, like, there's no Hannah Doggo in this situation. Like, there's no. Who's going to play first fiddle, who's going to play second fiddle. Like, it is just. Just Olivia Miles in TCU leading the way, much like Haley Van lifted a year ago. And so, you know, I think she is also knocking at that door as being one of the. The faces of the sport. I mean, you know me, like, I. I'm a big fan of players who wear glasses and, and goggles. And so the Olivia Miles goggles, like, you know, I think that that is another factor that kind of separates her from Pierce just in terms of look and style and her game. It might not be as kind of fast twitch as some other players, but I do think there's something that, like, I certainly appreciate that. Yeah, yeah, it is flashy, but she also kind of plays at her own pace. Like she plays at her own, like, rhythm, too. That I think separates her game in a really interesting and. And way that draws a lot of people in. So she. She could certainly emerge. Yeah.

[Zena Keda]

Yeah. People think Olivia Miles plays like a. Like an ABA former basketball player. Like old basketball, very Magic Johnson back in the day vibes.

[Ben Pickman]

Yeah. And. And that is why I think, like, she is another player very much could be in this conversation, and if she has a breakout year, too, it wouldn't be totally surprising. And we talked about it last week, if she was the number one pick in the draft next year, and if she's the best player in the country and people already know her name, she could very well end up being, you know, the face of the sport by. By season's end.

[Sabrina Merchant]

And maybe it's the freshman who emerges, you know, sort of like what Juju did a couple years ago. You think about Aaliyah Chavez and this opportunity that she has to play a really fast run and gun type of basketball at Oklahoma with a team that's already pretty successful with her coming in. You know, they made a sweet 16 last year. They've got a lot of returning veterans. She can make a lot of highlights. She can, you know, play a very aesthetically pleasing brand of basketball. You've got Jazzy Davidson at usc, who will just have run of the show, really, with the Trojans.

[Zena Keda]

Yep.

[Sabrina Merchant]

Honestly, I think names matter here. Like, Jazzy's a fun name and that'll just be good for, you know, just marketability purposes. And I think, you know, there's a blueprint of what juju Watkins did two years ago that she can very easily, you know, fall into. And like, the LA marketing machine is a real thing, just in the same way that the UConn marketing machine is a real thing. And that's why, you know, you can never discount AZ or Sarah.

[Zena Keda]

Yeah, that is exactly what I was going to say. And for the basketball heads, I am well aware that Magic Johnson did not play in the ABA era. I was just putting that together. I know people are gonna come for me, so just wanna clear that up. But yes, the name is a thing. The brand is a thing. And I think there is something that is beautiful about juju Watkins and Jazzy. Now Davidson at usc, Lovin basketball. Right. Like, there is something to that. And like the UConn juggernaut that has been there for so long, people know UConn and you can. And all the different chants that there are. You guys, you guys can correct me on that. But there's this element of the brand, of the school as well. That's why I think a lot of people were surprised that Leah Chavez chose Oklahoma versus another one of these big brands in terms of, like, being able to break out. But either way, these are just thoughts. These are just opinions. We want to hear what you guys are thinking. But before we do that, Sabrina, you actually sat down with one of the people that we have talked about in terms of this face the lead conversation. And. And I'm very excited to see and hear what she had to say. Tell me if I'm alone here. No off season listeners, but shopping used to feel more fun before all the algorithm fed blah and the endless sea of dupes. But I have a confession. I found that fun feeling again on ebay. It's not mindless scrolling. It is a fashion pursuit. And when you score that rare Adidas collab or the Dior saddlebag you've been manifesting. It's a rush. Ebay has millions of pre loved fines from hundreds of brands backed by the ebay authenticity guarantee. Ebay Things people love.

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[Unidentified Commercial Voice]

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[Jeff Bridges]

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[Zena Keda]

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[Sabrina Merchant]

Joining us on the no offseason podcast today is an all American national champion gold medalist Kim impersonator. And that's just her day job. Thank you so much for taking time to come on the show. Flaje Johnson.

[Flaje Johnson]

Thank you for having me.

[Zena Keda]

Thank you for having me.

[Sabrina Merchant]

Yeah. So Flaje, as one of the busiest athletes in college basketball, how does being part of Team Galaxy help you balance everything from sports, music, academics, everything happening?

[Flaje Johnson]

Yeah, being part of Team Galaxy really helps me navigate just because they give me all the tools that I need from like just my phone and being able to manage my calendars to my wearables. You know what I'm saying? My ring, My galaxy ring. It tracks my sleep, which is something that I check Every morning, like, as soon as I wake up, like, how did I sleep? Like, how much energy do I have, you know, going into the day? So just give me the. Just give me the information and the tools that I need in order to succeed off the court. For sure. Handling my business, my academic, academics, but also taking care of my body because, like, recovery is super big for me. Sleep is huge for athletes, and I've really been on a. Like, you know, as I've gotten older and, you know, from a freshman to a senior, like, taking care of my body has been, like, my main objective.

[Sabrina Merchant]

I mean, speaking of that, you're now a senior at lsu. This is your fourth season with the same program. You're kind of like a unicorn in college basketball, too. What does it mean to you to be ending your career at the same place that you started it with the same coach?

[Flaje Johnson]

It means a lot to me. I never really thought it would go any other way. You know what I'm saying? I always knew that I wanted to be with the same program. I'm loyal to the soil, so I'm thankful that Coach Moki took a chance on me, allowed me to do my music and play basketball at the same time. So I'm just grateful for her that I was able to chase both of my dreams here and do it all four years.

[Sabrina Merchant]

I mean, speaking of the program here at lsu, you guys have a pretty different team than the one you had last year. But still. Still you. Still Mikayla Williams, still Kim Mulkey, like, what is the expectation this season? Like, what do you think you guys are capable of with all the new pieces you have coming in?

[Flaje Johnson]

I think the main expectation is just always to play hard. Like, if you watch a Kim Mulkey team, you know, that's what they do. They play defense, they rebound, and they play hard. So I think that's the main expectation. I mean, we have eight new players, so just trying to get us to J quickly, and that's just, like, the norm going into the new transfer portal era. So just kind of being able to see how quick we can gel and just play hard.

[Sabrina Merchant]

How does it fall on you, as one of the leaders of this team, to help make sure that everybody gels?

[Flaje Johnson]

Yeah, it falls on me 100%, because I know the system, I know what we need to do, I know what needs to happen, and I know what Coach Mookie wants. So I have to be an active leader, lead by example, so they know what to do and do the right things on and off the court.

[Sabrina Merchant]

Coach has Also said that she wants to be more vocal, which kind of seems crazy to think about. Flagee Johnson needs to be more vocal, but what does that look like for you?

[Flaje Johnson]

Just demanding the best out of everybody, even when they don't want to. I think that's the main thing she's been trying to tell me, like, you have to speak up, you have to talk. You have to be a leader, even when you don't want to lead. And so I feel like that's the more vocal aspect she's talking about.

[Sabrina Merchant]

Are there any leaders who were really helpful for you when you were a freshman, who you can sort of lean on that experience, you know, now that you're in this position?

[Flaje Johnson]

No, I was literally talking about it yesterday. I was like, the new freshman. They call me grandma and. Because I'm old. That's what they say. And I used to call ladasia Williams grandma, you know, because she used to always be in the Normatec boots and in the cold tub and icing. And I'm like, bro, I don't gotta do that, you know? So now I look back and I'm like, wow. Like, you know, she really showed me, you know, what it is like to take care of your body. And, you know, she was really a big inspiration for me, just on and off the court. She was my roommate, of course, but just taking care of my body and recovery, like, she showed me a lot.

[Sabrina Merchant]

You know, it kind of seems like you're one of the faces of college basketball this year. You were obviously part of full court press last season. Now, you know, you're one of the most popular returning players, one of the most successful returning players. Do you think about that, you know, like, sort of taking on the mantle as one of the biggest players in the ncaa, or do you not really see it that way?

[Flaje Johnson]

I know I have that responsibility, but I kind of just want my game to speak for itself with everything that I do. And, you know, being a rapper, being an athlete, being one of the leaders in nil, I really just want my game to speak for itself. I want my game to show. I want my numbers to keep getting better every year. Y' all have seen my numbers have better, better, better every year. I just want to continue to do that. And it's just. It comes with the territory. There's no pressure, though.

[Sabrina Merchant]

Is there any particular skill that you want to improve on coming into this senior season or just general on the board.

[Flaje Johnson]

Be a better rebounder, a better defender, more assists in my playmaking ability, showing people that I can do that. But yeah, that's pretty much it. Just bringing that energy. Just bringing that energy. I gotta make sure my energy is right every day.

[Sabrina Merchant]

Well, speaking of all of the things that you have on your plate, you also joined the future is unrivaled this off season. Just what went into that decision, Wanting to be a part of Unrivaled even in a bigger capacity than you already were.

[Flaje Johnson]

Yeah, I already have equity in it, so I kind of did an nil deal with them and kind of got involved on the business side. I feel like now it's kind of my responsibility to do everything I can to make sure that, you know, Unrivaled is thriving and well. But it's also so cool that Samsung was a sponsor for the event, like the main sponsor for the event. And I got to work out, I got to use the Samsung wearables, but then also track, you know what I'm saying, how my body felt after the workouts and how much sleep I got and just really just being around all the players and we all had a good time and I feel like it was a dope experience for me. I'm thankful I got to be a part of that with Unrival but also Samsung because they both my partners.

[Sabrina Merchant]

So it was beautiful considering that you get to track everything. Like while you're doing your workouts at LSU and while you were doing your workouts at Unrivaled. Like, how does three on three affect your body versus five on five.

[Flaje Johnson]

Man, three on three is different. It's a lot more pace. It's more up and down. It's more down and back. So you don't get a lot of rest time on defense. Like you gotta. I don't get the chill on help side. So if I look, look at, like if I look on my energy score and I look at my steps right, I'll take almost the same amount of steps that I would in a practice on like a 3v3 court in a 5v5 practice. So that goes to show you. And it won't even be the same amount of time, but it's just so much back and forth. Like you have to be in great shape to play through V3.

[Sabrina Merchant]

What was that experience like? You know, getting to be with so many of the great college players in the country all in one place for that future is Unrivaled Camp.

[Flaje Johnson]

It was dope. But my, my, my most memorable part was being with Coach T. Spoon and it's just like her energy was like, wow, like you're crazy. I like that, like, you know what I'm saying? Like, her energy was so contagious, and all she wanted was for us to play hard and for us to play defense and for us to talk and communicate. So I feel like that gotta gave me a little bit of glimpse of what, like the NBA WNBA life kind of looks like. And, you know, she. She's played in the league, and just her expertise and her energy showed me like, okay, this is the vibe I gotta have.

[Sabrina Merchant]

I mean, that sounds a lot like coach Kim Moke, right? What you described.

[Flaje Johnson]

Yeah, for sure, for sure.

[Sabrina Merchant]

Yeah. And I think Angel Reese said a similar thing. Right. Like, playing for Kim and playing for Spoon was pretty similar. Right. They're just birds of the same feather. So just, you know, moving on to the other part of Johnson, the rapping part. I got to see you perform at All Star. I think for the second straight season. Just how. How is the music career coming along? Like, when. When are we expecting the next album?

[Flaje Johnson]

I'm about to drop an EP in November, like right after my birthday. I'm probably gonna announce it it. So I'm super excited about that. I've been doing, like, remixes of, like, all the biggest songs that have dropped, and those have been massing, like, millions of views on social media, on my social media and stuff like that and been causing an uproar. So I'm, you know, just keep trying to be consistent. Obviously I'm really focused on this season. Basketball is the main thing, but, you know, I'm going to continue to drop my music and promote it.

[Sabrina Merchant]

How do you, like, manage to spend time for both during the college season? Like, what do you have to, like, set a certain time of, like, this is when I focus on being in the studio. This is when I'm writing. This is when I'm in, you know, practice or film. Like, do you schedule it out?

[Zena Keda]

That.

[Sabrina Merchant]

Or it just sort of happens. Like, this is when I have a break and, you know, sort of happens.

[Flaje Johnson]

Nah.

[Sabrina Merchant]

Okay.

[Flaje Johnson]

Everything when you're doing something at a high level is always intentional. And I would just say, like, I'm just always on my phone, like, this S25 edge right here. Keep me on point. Like, I. I use my AI Gemini and I'm like, okay, this is all I have to do for the day. Can you put my task in order? Can you make sure you give me an alarm 30 minutes before, you know what I'm saying? So I got to keep myself, you know what I'm saying? I got to keep myself on point, and I have to Be intentional about that, because if you just let things go, it falls through the cracks, and I don't really have time for that if I want to be efficient, you know what I'm saying? If I want to get the most out of my opportunity. So I just use my tools. Like, I feel like in this generation, a lot of people like that we let our phones use us when we should be using our phones to, you know what I'm saying, get to where we really want to go. So that's definitely what I do.

[Sabrina Merchant]

How do you feel like your musical style has evolved ever. Ever since. I mean, like, I was watching videos of you on America's Got Talent. So, like, how do you feel like you're a different rapper? You feel like you're sort of the same since you started?

[Flaje Johnson]

I'm same and different. I feel like I'm older now, so I have more experience and more to talk about. Especially just like, living life, being around people, you know, just reading more books, understanding more knowledge, you know, becoming more music savvy. So, you know, it's kind of just. I would just say more so just intentional about what I want to learn, what I want to do, you know what I'm saying? So I think I've become a better artist. I think I become a better lyricist, though. And I'm still trying to find my sound, trying to find my tone, my way, what I want to say, how I want to say it. And I feel like music for me is going to be, like, ever evolving as I grow as a person, because it's really the way that I express myself.

[Sabrina Merchant]

Yeah, I mean, I thought it was so interesting that you talked about all of the things that you'd been through, even at age 14, and to have that perspective, what, eight years ago, and to now have so much more experience to draw. And I'm sure that just informs your music in so many different ways.

[Flaje Johnson]

I just have to tell my story. I'm an artist, and it subconsciously is there. And then it's like once I rap about it, I kind of just let it go, you know what I'm saying, when I speak on anything. So it's kind of a good release to have. Like, you know, some people will say, like, she's trying to do this, but it's like, no, like, music is really my release and my therapy for everything that comes with basketball and with the fame and with the everything else.

[Sabrina Merchant]

You know, it's funny, people say that basketball could be their therapy, too. Is that not the case for you or.

[Flaje Johnson]

Well, it is, but it's like, like I feel like it's like a, like an inhale and then like an exhale. So like when I'm on the court, like this is like my, my inhale, you know what I'm saying? And then when I get overwhelmed, I'm able to exhale with the music. So it's kind of like that meditative state where like when you inhale like you, you take everything in and like you have to release. So music is like my release.

[Sabrina Merchant]

Got it. We talked about this earlier. This is year four with Kim Mulkey. Obviously talk about the faces of college basketball. She, she is one of them. A have a lot of opinions on Kimoki. What, what's something that you appreciate about her that a lot of people don't get to see, you know, from the outside.

[Flaje Johnson]

Just like she doesn't care about what people think about her because she know who she is as a person and her day to day life and how she approaches every day. I feel like that's the, that's the main thing that I like about Kim Moki that I really love Byron, how she approaches every day, every day she demands excellence. And I feel like that's something that she's taught me in my mindset. Like every day you gotta go get it.

[Sabrina Merchant]

So.

[Flaje Johnson]

So I feel like that's one of the main things I learned and that I'm thankful that I was able to learn from her.

[Sabrina Merchant]

One more thing I wanted to ask you about. Coach Bob Starkey had mentioned that you do some work for the KL Foundation. How did you get involved with that? What sort of inspired you to want to be a part of that?

[Flaje Johnson]

My grandmother and my cousin both died from cancer. And it wasn't breast cancer, but it was cancer. And KL fights cancer. All cancers in women, not just breast cancer. I think that's the biggest misconception that people, that people think about the KI foundation. But that was really what it was. In my freshman year, Coach Bob was doing like, you know, however many students come, I'm going to donate this amount, right? And I was like, okay, well I'mma match it then, like, you know what I'm saying? And it end up being a thousand. So I sent $1,000 and then the next, the next year, you know what I'm saying? We did it again. And then I became a servant leader the year after. And so, and now we. I've done a lot like my give back. People don't know I did a give back in the city of Savannah and We were able to give school supplies, shoes, headphones to kids to over 2,500 kids. You know what I'm saying? And 2500 families were there at the end Mark arena in my hometown of Savannah, Georgia. And we was able to write a check to the hospital for $50,000, you know what I'm saying? And. And. And so it. Like, It. It's just like a beautiful thing that.

[Sabrina Merchant]

That.

[Flaje Johnson]

That really grew into. Because that was just something that I was just doing out of the. Out of the love, and it really turned into a partnership, and we have bigger things coming, so something I'm really passionate about. I am a woman, and I know this can't. This cancer in particular affects us, so just want to, you know, just want to push the information, make sure women out there go get checked, and just. I just want to help people. That's it.

[Sabrina Merchant]

I mean, it seems like that's been a part of your music and the platform that you've had ever since you were a teenager. Right. Just. Just want to help people. Right. Well, thank you so much for taking the time to, you know, help us out on the show here. Appreciate you.

[Flaje Johnson]

Good luck.

[Sabrina Merchant]

Good luck next week with the start of the college basketball season, and we'll be following along with everything you're doing on and off the court.

[Flaje Johnson]

Thank you for having me.

[Zena Keda]

Okay. All right, Sabrina. There was a million brands. I feel like that Fajee Johnson is, like, involved in, et cetera. Like, what was that conversation like for you? Just being able to talk to her and how poised she was as a college kid representing all these brands.

[Sabrina Merchant]

I mean, it's unsurprising that flage is that poised. Like, I prepped for that interview by watching her America's got talent audition, you know, back when she was 14 years old, and she just has an incredible command and presence. So the fact that she can handle an interview with me is not surprising at all.

[Ben Pickman]

I get nervous talking to you, Sabrina.

[Sabrina Merchant]

I mean, I'm no Simon Cowell, I'll tell you that.

[Zena Keda]

Fair. Yeah. No, Flaje's been very much in control of her voice, her brand, herself for a very long time, and it's just gonna keep growing. So very excited to see what she does out on the court and also, also off the court. My main thing is if we find a way for her to play a game and then also somehow perform at halftime. We have reached new levels here. We have reached new levels. All right, guys, that is all we've got for you today. Reminders, if you've got questions about the CBA or college hoops, please send them our way. We've got a mailbag coming up. Drop us the line on our socials or on our email. No offseasonathletic.com check out the show notes. We got more info there. And wherever you're listening, follow our show. Of course we talked a little bit of, you know, philosophically today, but we got more X's and O's and more of all of this, these cultural conversations as well coming up. As we enter into the quote unquote no off season, but really off season for wnba, the NCAA unrivaled coming up. We got all of it here and we're going to be talking about it, so make sure you're subscribed so you don't miss any of it and head on over to our partner at the Yahoo Sports Hub for more content. That's sports.yahoo.womens sports on behalf of the Athletic Flaje Johnson, Sabrina Merchant, Ben Pickman, I'm Zena Ka thanking you for listening and we'll see you guys next time. No Off Season is hosted by Zena Keda with Chantelle Jennings, Sabrina Merchant and Ben Pickman. It's produced by Tanika Burrell. Our executive producers are Andrea B. Scott and Cassius Fleming. Our theme music is by Marcus Bagala. Monica Compton is our video editor. Shannon Ryan is managing editor of women's basketball at the Athletic. Jessie Burton is our head of audio and Tim McMaster is director of audio operations.

[Flaje Johnson]

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[Zena Keda]

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Jeff Bridges why are you still living above our garage?

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