← No Offseason: The Athletic Women's Basketball Show
No Offseason: The Athletic Women's Basketball Show
WNBA Award Predictions: Who Will Take Home the Honors? + Valkyries star Veronica Burton joins the pod!
01:01:06
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- [00:00]
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Ben Pickman
Bombas are so absurdly comfortable, you may.
- [00:06]
Sabrina Merchant
Throw out all your other clothes.
- [00:08]
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- [00:10]
Zena Caida
No, this is just how I talk.
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Sabrina Merchant
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- [01:36]
Zena Caida
Hello, everyone, and welcome to no offseason. I'm Zena Caida.
- [01:39]
Sabrina Merchant
I'm Sabrina Merchant.
- [01:41]
Ben Pickman
And I'm Ben Pickman.
- [01:44]
Zena Caida
And today on the show, be prepared to be stressed because that's how I feel right now. It is. Our award predictions as the 2025 WNBA regular season nears its end. I cannot believe it is literally the last week of the regular season. That means that the race for the league's top awards has intensified. And the questions are, will this be a year of repeats? What makes for a good defensive player of the year? Which player has most improved? Then Valkyries guard Veronica Burton is going to join me to discuss her surprise success story and their inaugural season of the Valkyries and the evolution of her game. But first, Sabrina, scale. It's back, y'.
- [02:28]
Sabrina Merchant
All.
- [02:28]
Zena Caida
It's here. We're here. Playoff standings are taking shape. Sabrina and I want us to take a look at this week's Sabrina scale. And we've got to have, like, a do no, no kind of sound because it's the last one of the year. Sabrina, I was really sad to Read that. So there wasn't a ton of movement in your final rankings this week, but tell us what stood out for you this weekend.
- [02:52]
Sabrina Merchant
I think the main thing that stood out was we've been talking for weeks about do the Liberty have the ability to flip the switch. Right. This is a team that won the title last year, is super talented on paper. Even though they lost Benija, Lainey Hamilton for the season, they bring in Natasha Cloud, bring in Emma Meesim in mid season, still have Stewie, Jonquil Jones, sab. When is this actually going to look like a team that could win the title? And we've just been waiting for a good month or so now. And the quotes coming out of the Liberty locker room are just increasingly like, this is not what we're supposed to look like. This is frustrating. This is disappointing. And so to see them sort of go through the motions of what looked like another road loss in Seattle, it would have been their sixth consecutive road loss to turn that around, actually. Show some fire, show some life. Admittedly, taking away a fourth quarter leave from the Seattle Storm is not that difficult to do these days.
- [03:40]
Zena Caida
Yeah, that's their thing.
- [03:41]
Sabrina Merchant
They like to do. It's their thing. Yeah. Eight losses when leading going into the fourth quarter, the most by a large margin in the wnba. But yeah, just to see them show some fight and like actually like show the bones of a team that can compete in the playoffs, I thought was the most interesting thing. Not necessarily enough to raise them that high in the Sabrina scale this week, but just something to keep an eye on, like as we go ahead into the playoffs because again, this is a team that is just uber, uber talented.
- [04:05]
Zena Caida
If there is anything that anyone learned from that game, closed mouths don't get fed. Shout out to Sandy Brondello and these challenges at the end of that game because there were some calls that I was like, no way, Sandy, sweetie, what are you doing?
- [04:21]
Sabrina Merchant
You're not gonna get that one extension.
- [04:24]
Zena Caida
There were some I like mouth dropped. I was like. And then Noelle Quinn. Closed mouths. Don't get fed. There was a play which very towards the end of the game, NECA going in, Stewie fouls her. She doesn't review it. And I'm like. And then the, you know, the montage of all the Sandy Brondello challenges happens and it was just like, well, thank you for keeping it interesting. But yeah, shout out to the New York Liberty being able to get that win on the road. I loved at the post game interview when the. I, I don't remember who the person was with Brianna Stewart, but saying, how does it feel to like break this five game losing streak? And Brianna Stewart's like, I didn't know.
- [05:04]
Sabrina Merchant
I had no idea we were on.
- [05:05]
Zena Caida
A five game losing streak. It's like, all right, well, that might be part of the issue, but I did appreciate the fact that they looked like they had some fight in them. But the other team that has, I mean, completely changed their whole trajectory has gotten up after a brutal beat down towards the mid summer Aces. The Las Vegas Aces. 14 wins straight now. Ben, 14. Okay. And we're talking about the fact that it's Asia Wilson making them look great, but there's other players that are stepping up. Ben, I'm going to let you get into a little bit of what you're liking out of the Aces because I know Sabrina, you talked a little bit about Jackie Young, but Ben, what are you saying?
- [05:46]
Ben Pickman
I mean, how do you not start with Asia Wilson here? And I know we're going to talk a lot about Asia Wilson on this podcast, but she's basically like putting up these 30 and 10 games and making them seem kind of normal at this point. Like I was talking to someone around the league on Monday and they basically told me that they've never seen a player have the kind of dominance over the course of a month and a half like Asia Wilson has had. And we have basically seen it since the 50 point blowout, the 50 plus point blowout that the Aces lost to the Minnesota Links. I think it was August 2nd was that day. And since then they've just rattled off 14 straight and shot up the standings from on the cusp of the playoffs to like, they're not going to be the title favorite, they're not going to be the 1 seed because of Minnesota. But like, find a team that is hotter, that is more dangerous than the Las Vegas Aces. You couldn't. And I've just gone back all season long. I remember talking to Becky Hammond when they were in New York for the first time and she was like, yes, we are not playing our best right now, but we want to be peaking when the season is, you know, nearing the postseason when games are starting to really matter for real. And I don't even think Becky Hammond though, could have imagined like them peaking the winner that they are right now, them playing the way that they are because historically, like, it would have been tough to imagine, but it's so impressive. And it all starts with, you know, number 22 for them.
- [07:02]
Zena Caida
Right? I mean, they're defining peaking right now and I love that Asia, you know, Asia Wilson is going to be doing Asia Wilson things, but there's also the growth around her because Kelsey Plum is now gone. There's more ball handling in the hands of a Jackie Young. Sabrina, you called this out, and I thought it was a really great observation. Jackie Young was a point guard. You know, this was that. That was her role, and she became someone that was coming off, you know, driving in from the wing and being able to create off ball. Because you had a Kelsey Plum. Now you talk about her usage rates going up. What are you noticing with Jackie Young's contributions to this unbelievable streak?
- [07:42]
Sabrina Merchant
What's interesting about Jackie Young is that she's such a perfectionist that the Aces have always gotten on her case about, like, not doing enough because she's trying not to make mistakes. You know, like, during that peak 2023 run where they won, you know, 34 out of 40 games, it was always like, well, Jackie never turns the ball over, but it also means that she kind of doesn't try all of the passes that we know she's capable of. And now you're just seeing a more emboldened Jackie Young where she's trying everything. And, like, there's been a number of times where she'll make a pass. And the Aces broadcast thinks like, oh, that's Chelsea Gray. And it's not, but it just looks like a Chelsea Gray pass. It's just Jackie Young. Right. We've talked about this on the podcast before, actually.
- [08:14]
Zena Caida
Right.
- [08:14]
Sabrina Merchant
But I think that's just more of an indication of, you know, she's a little bit freer. She's not as afraid of making mistakes, and she still doesn't really make that many mistakes. Right. Like, 10 of the last 12 games, two or fewer turnovers. In that same stretch, five or more assists 10 times. Right. So she's obviously handling a lot of playmaking load alongside Chelsea Gray because, again, like you mentioned, there's just a different role for her. Jewel Lloyd is not going to be that type of player that Kelsey Plum was. So I think it's cool that she's just gotten more comfortable with, you know, the ability to be potentially a little less disciplined, even though that is very much within the Jackie Young ethos, is to, like, make as few mistakes as possible. And it's another one of the reasons why we've seen the Aces go on this remarkable streak. They're the fifth team in WNBA history to win 14 games in a row. Their next game is against a Chicago sky, who I think it's going to be 15 in a row, let's be clear. So, yeah, you know, it's just, it's a really impressive streak to end the year on for sure.
- [09:01]
Zena Caida
Especially the way sky right now are trending. Definitely looks good for the Aces to continue this. Now you talk about the streak, but the streak has also, you know, positioned them incredibly well in that number two spot. The standings have been shaking, not necessarily towards the top. I think Vegas has been working their way towards that number two. Atlanta has been comfortably in that number three. It's the bottom. It's the bottom of the playoff standings specifically that have been interesting. So the Golden State Valkyries clinch. After Dallas tried very hard to play spoiler last week, they clinch their playoff spot. They haven't figured out exactly where they are in the standings just yet, but they're going to go in and have their opportunity to potentially play spoiler against Seattle on Tuesday. So what are you seeing in these playoff standings? Seattle, Los Angeles battling back and forth, guys, I chose Dallas and Los Angeles as my game to watch. And I will say quarter one through three, it was worth it. Quarter four was interesting, but I mean, Los Angeles continuously has these like unbelievable, kind of worrisome games. If you're a Los Angeles Sparks fan, it. It keeps things exciting, but it's like, man, you want them to have some consistency so they can find a way to get into the playoffs. What are you looking at with the playoffs standing, Sabrina?
- [10:24]
Sabrina Merchant
Well, I mean, there's very little at stake here because there's only one team, the Sparks, who can potentially get in the playoffs and it requires everything to go in their favor. They need to win their next two games against Phoenix and Las Vegas, who would be potentially going for their 16th win in a row, while Seattle also needs to lose to Golden State. So even though not everything is set, if I were a betting person, which I'm not, I think Seattle is the odds on favorites to be the eighth seed, which would put, you know, Indy, Indiana in seven, Golden State in six. New York is probably going to be five. There's a little bit of drama maybe at the two seed where Vegas and Atlanta are still tied. Vegas does have the tiebreaker though, and they have two games against Chicago and la. Atlanta has two games against Connecticut. You would imagine they would be favored in all of those. So Vegas is still the odds on favorite to be the 2 seed and have home court in a potential WNBA semifinals. But yeah, everything is kind of settling into place. There are things that could potentially move. Really the only thing to keep an eye on is if the Sparks can win Tuesday and Golden State can win Tuesday, then that gives a little intrigue on Thursday. But like can you imagine trying to clinch a playoff spot against a Las Vegas Aces team going for their 16th one in a row? Because I cannot.
- [11:27]
Zena Caida
I could not.
- [11:28]
Ben Pickman
That exactly is like why this path is so hard for the Sparks is because the two teams, as you said Sabrina, that they have to play, have a lot at stake still. Yes, they are in the playoffs, but there is definitely real seeding implications for Phoenix and Las Vegas. And so yeah, I think we kind of know the eight at this point. I don't want to poo poo your LA Sparks, but I think it might be a little bit too little too late.
- [11:50]
Sabrina Merchant
Yeah, if anything, Phoenix losing to Connecticut helped LA a little bit because they have a much harder path to two or three now and could be a little more inclined to rest on Tuesday. But again, the A's is on Thursday. That's, that's going to be a real.
- [12:03]
Zena Caida
Issue before we close this out. Is there any movement you expect from with who has home court advantage because of the four and fives? Do you see any potential movements happening there?
- [12:15]
Ben Pickman
I don't really think that New York is going to catch Phenix for four or five and I don't think we're going to see much passing on the 56 front either. I think the bigger question is second round home court, right? Does Atlanta or Las Vegas get the 2 or the 3? That very much is still in play, as Sabrina said. So that is I think the, the real series to look out for to see who would open the second round if it gets to IT between those two teams with home court and obviously then have the game five if the series extends.
- [12:41]
Zena Caida
Okay, all right. I was trying to prolong before I went into my very stressful phase of talking about these awards. It's not going to be easy this season. When we get back, we're going to dive in.
- [12:57]
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- [15:16]
Zena Caida
Alrighty. Well, without further ado, deep breath, let's get into our predictions. We're going to start with the big one, mvp, Most Valuable Player. Who do we think is going to win it this year? Sabrina, let's start with you. Who you got, girl?
- [15:36]
Sabrina Merchant
I mean, who do we think and who am I gonna vote for? Are very different questions at this point. Let's just put it out here. You know, I think about mvp. My my baseline is usually best player on best team and it has to be something specifically historic or groundbreaking or something that's gonna cause me to change that. And honestly, nothing really has happened to cause me to change that. So as of today, Monday, September 8th, I am going to be voting for an Apisa Collier for MVP for 2025.
- [16:03]
Zena Caida
Okay, so I know you know Ben, and you wrote an article in which you guys kind of broke all these things down. And I want to kind of ask you about some of the things that matter to you because everyone utilizes different statistics and different evaluations in this. And one of the things you called out was the fact that Nafeesa Collier is top five in usage rate as well as being top five in true shooting percentage. And I think usage rate is always a great indication of wow, this person puts in a Lot of work. Right. And they, in order for their team to be successful offensively, their usage, their. Their capacity to be a part of the movement of the ball on the floor is incredibly important for that success. But true shooting percentage is also important because it means that as you're being utilized, you're still able to make a lot of shots in different ways. Can you break down why you think it's particularly important for you to be top five in usage and top five in true shooting?
- [16:57]
Sabrina Merchant
I just think means you're super efficient on the court. Right. Like a lot of, as you mentioned, a lot of the offense is running through Nafisa Collier, whether that's like as a, you know, play finisher or creator, you know, what have you. Because Minnesota has a lot of movement on their offense and for her to finish as many plays as she does and do so at such an effective rate like nobody else in WNBA is doing that. Right. And I think just to lead on the MVP case for a second, I realize that the Aces are second in the WNBA and that the Links are first. And it seems like it's not that big of a gap between those two teams. You look at their net ratings and Minnesota is plus 12.4 and Vegas is plus 2.4. There is a cliff between these two teams. And for Fee to be leading the team that is that much better. I'm not of the belief that she has a better team constructed around her. You look at the Aces, they've got Jewel Lloyd, they've got Chelsea Gray, they've got Jack Young. This is a team full of Olympians, full of players who have enormous amounts of talent. The Lynx have been consistently dominant all season and Fee has been at the center of all of that is incredibly important to me when I'm considering this award.
- [17:56]
Zena Caida
Okay, well, let's switch over to Ben and see what your MVP pick is. And I got a question for you too, but I have a feeling I know which one you're going to choose.
- [18:06]
Ben Pickman
Yeah, I mean, I currently am leading Asia Wilson, who would be the first ever four time WNBA MVP if she is named this award come later this fall.
- [18:16]
Zena Caida
Now, Ben, when it comes to Asia Wilson, it's so interesting because the argument people make against Nafeesa Collier is actually one that Asia Wilson has had to battle almost her entire career, which is. Well, she's got all these people around her, right? She's got this squad around her that's making her better. And it's interesting that now that the argument's kind of flipped as if you know, Asia Wilson doesn't still have Olympians and all Stars around her, but it's her individual contribution to the games. I mean, 20 double doubles so far this season is insane, like unbelievable numbers. And as you mentioned, 30 and 10, as if it's a normal thing to provide to a basketball game. How are you making the case for Asia Wilson, particularly speaking to the people that might be fatigued by voting for Asia Wilson?
- [19:07]
Ben Pickman
Yeah, I mean one, I think she is the best player in the league. And that is not for nothing though. I think Nafeesa Kalia right now is the second best player in the league. I think for Asia, again, she leads the WNBA in points. She leads the WNBA in blocks. She leads the league in 20 point and 30 point double double. She said more again dominant performances than any other player in the league. That is what that tells me. She leads the league in win shares. If you look at it, the Las Vegas Aces need Asia Wilson to thrive more than any other player. And any other team needs their star player to thrive. She has a plus 25.6 on off net rating that is the best in the league of any player that plays significant minutes. It is significantly more than what Nafisa Collier's on off net rating is for the Minnesota Links. And we have seen that the Minnesota Links, yes, have still played pretty good basketball without Fee on the court. And I have a hard time believing that that is the same case for Asia Wilson and the Las Vegas Aces. So to me, you know, yes, I think this award was locked up at the start of August, you know, when these two teams met. When you have that 50 point game, I think Fee was the clear front runner. But it is hard to overlook the last, you know, 15 or so games and just how great Asia has been. And she was great before, but she has gone on, you know, a tear and then some. And Minnesota has played solid and Fee has been, you know, missed some time and then been solid in her return. But it is again hard to overlook that dominance that Asia has had. And we see it both in normal game situations and we see it in clutch game situations. The ACEs 13 and 2 in situations that are classified as clutch games. Asia has a 41 net rating. That means they would outscore opponents by more than 40 points per 100 possessions in that situation. The links meanwhile, 6 and 5 in clutch settings. And Collier has a plus 10.5 net rating in those moments. It just shows you how good Asia is when the game is hanging in the balance.
- [20:56]
Zena Caida
That's what seems to be the conversation between These two is one player is the best player on the best team. Now, yes, the Lynx went seven and three while Nafisa Collier was not. But as Sabrina says, she is still at the center of their exceedingly better success than any other team in the WNBA right now. But there's also this aspect of the best player on a team, period. As in, they're gonna need this player in order to be the dominant team that they are, and that's Asia Wilson. And it's like you can teeter and totter back and forth, et cetera, but my pick is gonna be Asia Wilson, and it's going to be based on what Ben mentioned in terms of the domina that the Las Vegas Aces achieve, mainly because Asia Wilson is available to me. That's what value lists out. As for me, when you look at the mvp, however, the voters are gonna look at it a lot of different ways. They're gonna look at the way Sabrina's looking at it, the way that Ben's looking at it. And then some people might be able to say, like, individual accolades, things that you're just doing, team or not, you're just doing things that no one's ever done. And that makes me think of, obviously, Alyssa Thomas. You guys get the chance as voters, you guys get the chance to vote top five for MVP outside of Asia, outside of Fee, which, let's just be real right now, between a lot of voters, it's interchangeable. One or two. Two or one. Who else is on your list? And how does Alyssa Thomas kind of feed into that conversation? Sabrina, I'll start with you.
- [22:29]
Sabrina Merchant
Yeah, I think Alyssa Thomas is a pretty good candidate for number three on this ballot. I think I had said that she was gonna be second when we had this discussion about a month ago. And obviously things have changed for the Las Vegas Aces, which have vaulted Wilson ahead of her in that category. But I think it, again, sort of comes down to how much is she contributing to the team being excellent. And I look at just the numbers that Asia has. Ben already mentioned the on offs and whatnot. And Alyssa Thomas has done great things in Phoenix, but not what Asia has done in Las Vegas. But I think third place is a perfectly invalid place to have her, especially coming into a new team, having to restructure their identity completely. It's a very tall task for any player. It's a much bigger lift than Nafeesa Khali or Asia Wilson, returning to supporting casts that are very similar to them. But, yeah, third place, Alyssa Thomas makes a lot of sense. Alicia Gray comes in fourth for me right now mostly just because I think I've been looking at Bree Jones on Atlanta. I'm like, she's also super valuable and it's hard for me to distinguish between those two. I think Gray has been tremendous, the most consistent player throughout the course of the season. So that's why I would have her fourth on my ballot. Fifth is an open question right now. I'm still deciding between a lot of names as we make this all W conversation, but I'm curious where Ben is right now.
- [23:37]
Ben Pickman
I mean, this is where we get like, my head is spinning. I could see so many different, like versions and ballots and I really don't know where to pick because as you said, Sabrina, it parlays into the all W conversation. And like any which way you slice it, there are going to be plenty of players and their respective teams and agencies and camps who are going to be unhappy with how the voting shakes out. Because you have players like both players on the Indiana Fever, Kelsey Mitchell and Aaliyah Boston, who have really strong cases for, you know, all W first team, all W second team. And if one of them didn't make either of them, I also wouldn't be shocked. Right? You have Kayla McBride, who's had an all WNBA quality year and again, as Sabrina said, on the best team all season long and also had to carry a lot of the weight when Fee was out. You have someone like Sabrina Yanescu from the New York Liberty, though she's also missed some time. You have someone like Brianna Stewart who, you know, has missed more than 10 games this year and probably won't make an all W team, though if you were ranking the 10 best players in the league, obviously she is on the list. Then you have Jackie Young, you have Neca, you have Paige Beckers, you have Veronica Burton. Like, I could keep throwing Bree Jones, I could keep throwing names in. I think I just rattled off like eight or nine names and you basically have six spots for, you know, filling out the final all W fifth player and then your all W second team. And maybe my long list is not long enough. I don't know if Sabrina or Xena, you have other names you want to toss in, but like, it just gives you an example of how hard of a decision this is. And it is one that I'm definitely going to spend kind of all week stewing over because I like every hour, every two hours, whenever I've sat down to, you know, watch games back to look at some stats, to ask people, I get different answers and I Have no feel for it right now. Like, I hate to be the person who's going to opt out of making a pick here, but I really have no feel after four for what five through 10 is going to look like for me. MVP ballot and then all W. Second team.
- [25:38]
Zena Caida
No, that's fair. I feel like a little Freudian slip happens. Stewing.
- [25:42]
Sabrina Merchant
Yeah, right. You heard Nancy.
- [25:47]
Zena Caida
But luckily, we're not choosing all WNBA teams just yet. But, yeah, it's going to be. It's going to be interesting to see how that those five shake out because we've had some unbelievable caliber performances coming across the country. And ultimately, though, I think we are pretty safe. It's between Asia and Fee. I'm Asia, Ben's Asia, Sabrina's Fee. We'll see what happens. I remember on July 25, I posted on Blue sky and I was like, are we good with the MVP conversation? Do we need to see any more? And then Asia did what Asia does. So we'll see what happens. Let's keep it going. One of these. I'm gonna. I feel like we're gonna roll right through. And I think it's coach of the year. I mean, I literally even failed a game with Sabrina the other day trying to convince myself I don't believe who the coach of the year is. Uh, we know last year, Minnesota Lynx head coach Cheryl Reeve. She received the award. She also holds the record for the most WNBA coach of the year awards ever, having won in 2011, 2016, 2020. Tabrina, I'm gonna start with you. Who is your pick for coach of the year?
- [26:53]
Sabrina Merchant
Yeah, we can roll right through this. It's Natalie Nakase. The level of difficulty for taking an expansion team to be good, let alone making the playoffs, let alone, like, in the mix for home court this late in the season, obviously they're not going to get there, but just an incredible job she's in with the Valkyries. Everybody is basically having the best season of their career in Golden State. Underneath Natalie, they have an identity. You know how they're going to play. They play hard. They built a culture that people want to be a part of that people are devastated when they get cut, you know, from. So I think just everything that she's been able to establish in Golden State is it was the hardest job in the WNBA coming into the season, and she has done a masterful job of it. So, yeah, I don't really think there's any conversation here. It's Natalie Nikase.
- [27:32]
Zena Caida
I'm with that, Ben.
- [27:34]
Ben Pickman
Yeah, I am now a Natalie Nikase voter, I think for a long time, I think Carlos Mesco, to me was. It was closer than I think a lot of people gave it credit for. Atlanta has jumped more than any other team in the league. You know, there are more than 13 wins depending on their result on Monday night from last year to this year. And we've seen someone like Alif Gray go from, you know, top 20 player in the league to, as we said, being a lock on an MVP ballot as the, you know, the third or fourth player, depending on what you want, and she'll make all w first team. And so credit to him and their staff for unlocking her. But yeah, everything Sabrina said applies here. I think this is Natalie Nakasi's award with golden state having comfortably made the playoffs here.
- [28:10]
Zena Caida
Yeah, I think it's an interesting conversation when it comes to what makes for a coach of the year, whether it's you do something like what Carl Smesko did, which is turning around a program, or you do something like Sidney Johnson is doing Washington tapping into the young talent that's available on his roster. You do what Natalie Nikase has done. And I mean, that's a new one, right? That's quite literally a new one for since 2008 to, you know, take on an expansion team. But I want to ask you guys this question because this actually happened. I was in a bar after a Valkyries game, met up with some friends, and someone asked me about Natalie Nikase winning coach of the year. And I was like, oh, yeah, absolutely. And they asked a really pointed question. They said, well, with these new teams coming about, right, Portland coming, Toronto coming, and of course, the three Cleveland, Detroit, Philadelphia, if Natalie Nikase wins. And I already have my answer, but I want to hear what you guys think. If Natalie Nikase wins coach of the year for Sabrina, as you put it, the masterful job that she has done, establishing a culture, establishing a winning culture as well an identity, a tough opponent to match up with night in, night out, if the next team comes in and makes the playoffs. Is that a new bar? Is that like the new standard that could warrant one of the new coaches from Portland or Toronto to get a coach of the year? Or was there more to it in what Natalie Nakase had to manage over the course of the season that even if Portland or Toronto make the playoffs next year, that doesn't necessarily mean they're going to get coach of the year?
- [29:47]
Sabrina Merchant
Well, I think Natalie did something that an expansion team has literally never done, right? An expansion team has never made the playoffs and If Portland or Toronto does it, it will not have been the first time because Golden State already did it. So that's part of it. I think it's also kind of a case by case situation. But I think, yeah, I think just the historic nature of what Golden State accomplished, being the first to do something, is never going to be possible for another expansion team.
- [30:08]
Zena Caida
Ben?
- [30:09]
Ben Pickman
Well, first of all, we can't have two coaches of the years and so we would have to pick from Portland or Toronto there. I don't want to be the math guy here, but I'm, I'm just saying.
- [30:19]
Zena Caida
If one or the other. Right, yeah.
- [30:20]
Ben Pickman
But I also think, like, yeah, she definitely has set the bar high and Golden State has definitely set the bar high. But I also think, like, you know, we're not just now going to hand out coach of the year for an expansion franchise. If you go 14 and 30 and have a competitive team, like I think a lot of people, Golden State, you know, she was in the conversation when they were still hovering around.500. I think for someone like me, like what has been so striking is what Sabrina said, how many players you're having career years and how comfortably they have now made the playoffs. Like, they're not just backing into the postseason because like they're under.500 and there were only six good teams in the league and someone had to claim those final two spots. Like they went out and got this playoff spot. They earned it. And I think that is really a credit to, to her and their staff.
- [31:06]
Zena Caida
I'm snapping, y'.
- [31:07]
Maya and Sim (Girls That Invest Podcast)
All.
- [31:07]
Zena Caida
I don't know if you can hear that, but I'm snapping.
- [31:09]
Veronica Burton
Boom.
- [31:10]
Zena Caida
Mic drop. All right, let's keep it rolling. Defensive player of the year, Ben, who's making a strong case for that?
- [31:15]
Ben Pickman
Well, a lot of players are making a very strong case, but I'm going to go with Alana Smith of the Minnesota Links, who is often one of the most underrated players in the wnba. I think has been for a few years now and I'm very interested then to see how this voting shakes out. But she built very much so on a all defensive second team year last season. That was a huge accomplishment for her and she has been in my mind, you know, the most consistent, the best defensive player in the league this year. She's an even better shot blocker this year, averaging nearly two block shots per game. She's steady in pick and roll when she's guarding, you know, both guards and big. She's a really, really good help side defender. She comes over and makes things really difficult. And that is one of the things that, when you ask people around the league, is a standout quality about how she is defensively. Minnesota has the league's best defense, and even with Nafisa Collier missing, you know, almost a quarter of the season during that stretch, even more was put on Atlanta Smith season and on her shoulders, rather. And we saw her, you know, thrive. And Minnesota time and again has her match up with the best bigs or these bigs that, you know, kind of can throw her around, and we see her fare incredibly well. So I think this is Alanna Smith. I think Asia Wilson's in this conversation. I think Fee is in this conversation. You want to go to a guard wing, someone like Gabby Williams from Seattle, I think very much deserves mention here. But to me, I'll go with lan. As of right now, with a, you know, a couple days left in the.
- [32:39]
Zena Caida
Regular season, I like this choice. I think a lot of people have been leaning on Lana Smith. She holds down the paint for the Lynx. She is the second layer of defense, the second line of help. She is someone that can also switch and have your back. If I'm a guard out on the perimeter, I feel good in a pick and roll situation with Alanna Smith as my partner. Sabrina, what do you think?
- [33:00]
Sabrina Merchant
Yeah, I think I'm sort of down to two players here, and a lot like mvp, it's a player on the Minnesota Lynx and Asia Wilson. So, you know, I look at what Alanna Smith is doing and, you know, we try to look at all these stats when we're making these decisions, and it's the weirdest thing with Atlanta Smith. Like, the Minnesota defense actually gets better when she's off the court, which I don't really understand. I watch the game and, like, she's clearly such an important part of what they are doing. Like, her rim protection, she's so physical. She just gets beat up all the time. Like, she puts her body on the line every single game, which was the point where, like, you're constantly worried that Jason's not gonna be able to get back up. But. But she's ozzy. That's what they do. So I think she's obviously an incredible part of what Minnesota is building as the league's best defense. Asia, though, like, I know I mentioned that, like, they have a lot of talent on the aces. They don't have a lot of defensive talent on the aces. Like, what she has to do as that back line is so difficult. Her stocks numbers are just off the charts, right? Like, the number of blocks and steals she's putting up. I mean, you know, we're watching the game against the Chicago sky last night and she has four steals, like four blocks and three steals in the first half. And it's just like, what are they even trying to go around her? What is happening? Just the defensive impact she makes in that respect. And you're looking at lineups where Chelsea Gray is the four for long stretches for Vegas, which is again, putting a lot on Asia Wilson's shoulders and she's able to take care of that. I think the only reason I would lean towards Lane is just because Minnesota's defense, again, is so much better as a whole than Las Vegas's. But this is another one where it's kind of coming down to the wire for me because individually, Asia Wilson is so phenomenal at protecting the rim and that is again, the most important area of real estate on the basketball court. So we'll see how that ends up shaking out. But I think both, both very good choices. I have a harder time just picking guards just because like of all of the difficulty associated with being a big in the WNBA and like having to be the backline for everybody. But Ben has a lot of good choices. I think it's going to come down to Lana. Rasha Wilson, though.
- [34:45]
Zena Caida
Yeah. It's funny, we're having the same type of conversation of does this person on the floor raise their defense, their team's defense, or versus the individual performance that this player is doing defensively. And man, I love. I do give her credit, but I'm also. I was so stuck on this, I had to look at the numbers. And Nafisa Collier, I mean her rebounding, her amount of defensive rebounds, the amount that she contributes in terms of defensive rebounds, percentage wise higher on the team than Atlanta. She's in above one steal a game, above one block a game, the lowest of the people. We're talking about defensive rating overall. And I'm like, oh, I don't know, you guys might know this. Has anyone ever won MVP and defensive of player of the year?
- [35:32]
Sabrina Merchant
Yeah, Asia Wilson.
- [35:34]
Zena Caida
That's right. Okay, that's what I thought it was. And I didn't want to be wrong here, but I feel like it's going to be Asia or Fee and someone's either going to double up or it's going to be split.
- [35:45]
Sabrina Merchant
I do wonder if a lot of voters are just going to think of splitting to give everybody some credit. No, it's part. Honestly, in the back of my head, I'm like, how can Asia Wilson have a season like this and not be recognized in some way or another, but, you know, it's all part of the package.
- [35:56]
Veronica Burton
Oof.
- [35:57]
Zena Caida
Yeah, Agreed. Okay, let's keep it moving. Let's keep it moving. Most improved, improved player. Sabrina, I'm going to start with my pick first and I'm going to throw it to you. We're actually going to be talking to this person shortly in this show, and it's Veronica Burton. We've seen the statistics, we've seen that she is categorically better in, you know, points per game, her defensive numbers, her ability. I mean, she's been pretty consistent in the free throw capacity, but just her leadership overall and what she's contributing out on the floor, like the numbers back it up, but also the feel test, the eye test back it up as well. When Kayla Thornton went down after All Star break, Veronica Burton stepped up to the plate and she started doing. I mean, she was doing what she was doing before Kayla went down, which is taking the ball into the paint, being able to shoot off the ball screens. She's been so much better at that this season, but particularly in the second half of the season when her usage rate went up and she had to have the ball in her hands a lot more. And so I am a huge, huge proponent of Veronica Burton for most improved, but there's also someone out east that I was like, I can't, I can't ignore this person. I want to see if you guys pick who I'm thinking about. So, Sabrina, I'm gonna throw it to you.
- [37:15]
Sabrina Merchant
Yes. You're seeing out east, and I feel like I'm probably gonna pick her teammate. Honestly, I think Veronica Burton has the best case for this award. Just going from fringe player who was unprotected in expansion draft, and she's, I think, making my second team all WNBA here, which is an enormous jump. I just did want to shout out Alicia Gray because I think she's made the jump from all star to superstar, and that is the most impressive improvement to me. She's gotten better at everything in her game, and it is so much harder to get better when you're already as good as she has been the last three seasons. So for her to just refine her shooting, get better at playmaking, she's a better defender, she's more efficient, she's taking better shots on the court. That, to me, is just so hard to make that specific jump. The thing is, like, Veronica Burton's also jumped to all wnba, so it's hard to say that it's not as impressive what Alicia Grayish has done. But I think I just wanted to make sure that she got a mention because I do think this is Veronica Burton's award to lose. But I'm very impressed with the improvement that Gray has made in Atlanta.
- [38:10]
Zena Caida
I agree. I almost thought about Alicia Gray. Talking about her in the most improved might be almost like a demotion from mvp. But I agree that she needs to be spoken in about in both of those categories. Ben, what are your thoughts?
- [38:24]
Ben Pickman
Yeah, I mean I think she certainly great us has a very good case for most improve. But I am like Euzena and gonna go for Veronica Burton here. And I'm not one of these voters who just looks at a player who suddenly has more opportunity and then as a result their numbers go up as most improved. Like I think it really is about how her game has developed. I mean one piece of information to sticks out to me and it's something that we see on the eye test too is that she went from having no presence as an isolation score last year to now somewhat routinely being able to get downhill stop and pop for mid range or get all the way to the basket. Like literally if you look at you know, synergies data, she had zero isolation baskets last season and now she, you know, she has a bunch and she's shooting, you know, not the best percentage. She's still shooting just 30% in those scenarios. But that is like a part of her game. She is totally developed. She went from being a just over 30% spot up shooter to now being a 40% spot up shooter. And that doesn't even get into you know, her improvement as a pick and roll player or as a floor general. And she still remains a very good defender. So for me it wasn't as simple as just look at her points, look at her rebounds, look at her assists. It's look at her game as a whole and what she is now doing. I mean I think people around the league like look, this is a player who was waived out of Dallas. You know, they cut her and Connecticut wasn't exactly like wasn't exactly using her a lot, right? And so she goes to this new situation and she is totally blossomed. Feeds back into the Natalie Nicase argument too. But yeah, Veronica Burton, my pick for mip.
- [39:55]
Zena Caida
Okay, you know what I was thinking sixth player of the year, not most improved. My sixth player of the year is out east. But there is one more western player for most improved as Ray Stevens. Like I feel like her contributions to la. Of course we knew Kelsey Plum coming in there would jump up the offense. Rekia Jackson coming back. She's been doing what she's supposed to be doing. And then Deirkre Hamby has been phenomenal. But Azrae Stevens becoming a knockdown, you know, stretch floor shooter being able to get to the line hitting her free throws. I've been giving her a little bit of love on this pod as an underrated player. And now I would say that she'd be a nice little addition to the most improved and last but not least, sixth player of the year. I think we're all on the same page because I already teased it. It's out east, it's out east, it's in Atlanta, it's in ATL mine. Nas Hillman, guys. What do you guys think?
- [40:51]
Sabrina Merchant
Yeah, a little love for Natisha Heideman, but it's Nas so good at being a six player that she graduated to a starter.
- [40:57]
Zena Caida
I know, literally, right? No, Nas Hillman, bravo. Doing every single thing that Atlanta needs, especially a team that's already dripping in depth. She has been able to, you know, mark her lane in terms of those deadly trail threes, but also obviously the defense, everything else that she provides as well. So we're on the same page there. Let's wrap this up and get into our conversation with Veronica. Don't go anywhere.
- [41:28]
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Sabrina Merchant
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Ben Pickman
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Ben Pickman
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Zena Caida
That's great news. High five everybody.
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Sabrina Merchant
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- [42:25]
Zena Caida
Excluding taxes and fees. Other restrictions apply.
- [42:27]
Sabrina Merchant
Hey, I'm Trisha Hershberger, gamer, streamer and Amazon Live host. I stream about tech gaming and the stuff I actually buy right here with my community. And Amazon Live makes it easy. Streaming Gameplay, scouting, new gear, chatting and shopping all at the same time. That's my kind of multitasking. And it all happens on Amazon Live. Shop on Amazon Live by searching Amazon Live in the Amazon shopping app and.
- [42:53]
Zena Caida
Follow your favorite creators today. Joining me now is Golden State Valkyries guard Veronica Burton. Veronica has been key to bringing the competitive mindset and defensive talent to the Valkyries. Veronica, welcome to no off season.
- [43:13]
Veronica Burton
Thank you. Thank you for having me.
- [43:15]
Zena Caida
I cannot imagine how you're feeling right now. We're talking to you one night after you made history. Now, I know around the Valkyries. Org you guys don't like to use expansion team. I get that. I get that. However, for the listeners, you guys are the first expansion team in league history to qualify for the playoffs in its inaugural season. Huge congrats. I got to talk to you on the court as the energy in Ballhalla was just consuming us both. Consuming your entire team. Can you just take us through what that night was like for you? Not just like the win, but coming into the game, going in the game, and then that culmination, what was that like?
- [43:54]
Veronica Burton
Yeah, it was definitely one. You know, obviously we were aware of kind of what was at stake. It wasn't necessarily super talked about. As players, we know what's at stake. We knew if we won, we clinch the playoffs and obviously how exciting that was. Our coaching staff just kind of reminded us that this is just any other game and to not really get too caught up in it. Coach Nat was even saying that this is the hardest game of the season just because we. We knew what.
- [44:20]
Zena Caida
What it was about.
- [44:21]
Veronica Burton
And obviously, Dallas, it's easy maybe looking at their record, to, you know, not take them as seriously as they should be taken because they are a very good team and a very competitive team. So I think from a mental approach, like, it was a something that we were aware of, something that we didn't want to get too caught up in, but also wanted it to motivate us. Motivate us and give us that energy. And so I think going into it, obviously we didn't have a great start. I think that we just came out a little flat, you know, for. For a team that's fighting for a playoff spot. We didn't set the tone as a starting group and we called a quick timeout and that laid into us rightfully so. And again, I just think throughout the first half, we weren't hitting shots that we usually hit, but we also were pretty lackadaisical on the defensive end. Communication. I think fatigue was A little bit of a factor, but that's where just relying on our whole team came in again. We got laid into at halftime, watched some film, got called out a little bit and. But I would say that second unit really is the, is the unit that propelled us, really got us back into that game. Kate's hit some huge shots. Carla was incredible. Mo's energy. So really just, it was a whole team effort and we were able to get it done.
- [45:30]
Zena Caida
Oh, okay. If you guys don't know Natalie Nikase likes to say that she MF's people. You can, you can guess what MF means. So every time we were saying we got laid into, I'm like, oh, I know she was MF in them. But what's, what's impressive is that you responded. You responded every time. This was a game of runs. You go down 0, 10 to start the game and then you go on your own 17 and six run and it was like that back and forth. This is what we've been saying about the WNBA all season long. You can't sleep on anybody at all, period. There's just so too much talent there. There's the particular contribution that you made towards the end, I mean, throughout the game, being the leader you've been throughout this season. You're one to put the team on your back, make a play, get into the paint, get a foul. That's what you do. But particularly at the end of the game, making free throws, you guys were up two. You made a crucial three point play. You're going to the line. Not even just in that play, but particularly as the seconds are getting counted and Dallas is trying to stop the clock, they're putting you on the line. What was going through your mind in that moment to stay focused and hit.
- [46:31]
Veronica Burton
Those shots, Just put them in. You know, I've taken those shots so many times. I've practiced them in empty gyms. You know, everyone practices free throws. I said, I definitely said a prayer before every single free throw that I took. Just trying to stay focused, stay present again. We were in a good position, so I think that was helpful too. You know, just extend the lead. That's what I knew we needed to do. We didn't want to foul on the other end, so we weren't really being aggressive and they were scoring pretty quickly. So just keeping it to a two possession game was the biggest thing that I wanted to do and I was able to do that well.
- [47:02]
Zena Caida
Shout out to those prayers. They looked out right always. They always right. And that's not just been you know, obviously in that moment, in that game. I'm sure you talk a little bit about your faith throughout your entire journey. Right. And your. Your basketball journey with your family. There is a wonderful article right now, guys, on the Athletic Marcus Thompson wrote, covering you, your family, and just like the background of your experience getting to this moment. And I want to go back to the beginning of it all, at least with the Valkyrie, this expansion draft process. I've heard you say in other interviews, you were in Australia and It was like 5am you got calls from your agent and you were selected by the Valkyries from The Connecticut Sun, December 6, 2024. What was your thought going into this new team, especially considering what you had been through leading up into that moment?
- [47:47]
Veronica Burton
You mentioned it. My faith. I do think this is where my faith came in again when I did get cut. I think being able to adapt and adjust to being on a brand new team and obviously that was a little bit different. Like, I came in late to Connecticut, but I'm not someone that's super good with change and super good with, you know, adjusting on the fly. And I think that was a moment that stretched me and challenged me. And so that was something that I really kind of had to get used to and adapt to. And so again, just faith, just trusting that I prayed a lot about it. I was able to have some awareness going into it that I wasn't protected. So I definitely knew it was a possibility. But then to have that kind of be a reality and me have really no control over it, that's where I just trusted in God, trusted in his plan for me and it was bigger than me. And so I was grateful too. What an amazing opportunity to be a part of something new and a coach that hand selected me. So I was excited.
- [48:37]
Zena Caida
Yeah, that is really special. And I don't know what it is about us younger children. I am also the youngest in my family. And change, change feels a little bit weird for us. I get that.
- [48:46]
Sabrina Merchant
I get that.
- [48:46]
Zena Caida
But it is really dope that you. I never even thought about that. Being hand selected by a team is really special and then being hand selected to a program that wants to set a standard as an expansion team, as a new team in the league. From your experience with the Valkyries so far, like, what's been important for new teams? The show we recently had was talking about how the Valkyries have been setting the blueprint really for these expansion teams that are coming out. Like, what would you say is like the most important for new teams to have in order to set players up for success with these new teams.
- [49:15]
Veronica Burton
Yeah, I've talked a little bit about just from top to bottom. I think the investment that was put into us as players, but also as staff, as the ENT organization, like, they went all in for us, from ticket sales to marketing. Like, everything was taken care of and everything was just set us up for success. So from that perspective, I think that was a huge thing. Like, we felt it, we felt like professionals from the moment we, we joined. And then from a player specific or coaching staff specific, I think the culture, like Coach Nat made it very clear from day one, like, she chose high IQ players and good character people. And that really did go a long way and it continues to. And just a lack of ego, I think in the of basketball can be huge. And we've relied on our chemistry and we've relied on everyone. And I just think that changes the game when you have a team that everyone feels confident and everyone feels like they can hit that big shot or make that next play, like, it's a game changer. And so I genuinely believe the culture is the biggest thing when it comes down to sports in general. And when you have a winning culture, it travels.
- [50:17]
Zena Caida
You know, it's so funny. I was talking to Kate Martin last night at the game, and I was teasing her because when we had pre season pressers with you guys, I had specifically asked. It was her tip. And I can't remember, there might have been a third person on the panel, but I was like, how are you guys gonna build chemistry as a new team? And I remember their instinct was, we don't need to hang out all the time to be besties, like, to be good at what we do. Right? We don't have to be best friends in order to be good at our jobs. And I was like, okay. But I vividly remember Ohema Nyanan, your gm, talking about, about how good people you guys are. Like, every single person they've selected has been really easy to work with. Like, has been really eager. And I was like, these girls about to be homies. And that's exactly what's happened. Like, you talk about the culture. You guys have really established a space that, you know, that's not always the case for every single WNBA team that you guys are as close as you are. So that is really, really special that you guys have that already established. I want to get into how maybe that culture, that investment, everything that you just laid out has helped you because, like, let's just be real. And I love that, you know Our girl Ari Chambers called us out in the off top interview like you did, put Northwestern on the map. We appreciate you for that. Okay. But there's also been a new evolution to your game. Right. As much as you were the defender, the person that you could put on a big time opponent in your roles in Dallas and Connecticut, now you're not just a defender, right. And you're not just a role player, you're a top scorer. You're, I like to call you in my own little words, backpack Burton. You know, you put the team on your back a few times. And so I do want to ask, like, this is a stark contrast from your previous experiences when you joined the Valkyries, did you see yourself being able to evolve in that way? And I would imagine you're a competitor, so maybe the answer is yes. But I want to get your thoughts on that.
- [52:15]
Veronica Burton
Yeah, it's definitely a two way thing. Like, I knew, I knew I had put in the work. Like, I knew what I was capable of. I had people that were closest to me. Obviously, you know, there's some bias there where the people closest to you are always gonna think you can, you can do it all. Yeah, literally. But I knew the time, like, I'll be in the gym. Like, I knew the work that I put into it. I knew the style of play and it would come out in bits and pieces, but there would always be, you know, a piece of me. I feel like not playing fully as me and not, you know, the confidence was lacking and the comfortability and just, I think that's where I took a leap this year too, is just I was able to play in Australia and I really do believe that helped my game tremendously, physically and mentally. I have been working with a mental performance coach and just kind of getting, getting that mental side of it down and still a long way to go in terms of that. And then I really do think just the buy in and the trust that my teammates and coaches have instilled in me, there's definitely been lapses this season. Even the very first game. Like, like I would say I started off that game just like I had started off other years. And I was really disappointed because I knew like this was this, it was a fresh start. Like, I wanted it to be different and. But Coach Nat pulled me in and she knew I was disappointed and she, like, it could have gone either way. You know, I was, I feel like I was expecting to not start the next game and instead she pulled me in and was like, you're fine. Like you're good this, like we're rocking with you. And she just instilled so much confidence in me. And even in the very next game, like, it just felt like a completely different freedom, a completely different confidence. And I was really grateful for that because I didn't know what to expect. And in years prior, you know, it had flipped. And I think I talk about getting cut and in Dallas or even in Connecticut not playing as much and like, rightfully so, I don't think I was playing in a way that, you know, deserved playing time or deserved to be on that roster all the time. So, yeah, there were snippets. And yeah, there's a beauty in letting people grow in this league because you're not always going to get it in the first couple years, but. But there comes down to some self accountability too. And I knew I needed to take a leap just to be in this league. I know what it's like to not be in it. So I couldn't afford to just come in timid again. And so I think that's where I took a big leap. But I had so many people, teammates and coaching staff in my corner helping me do so.
- [54:30]
Zena Caida
Even on your team, there are other players similar to you that may have been out of the league or maybe were at the end of benches on other teams. And the exciting part about your growth particularly is it's an example of all of this could change. And I want to ask, like, you talk about Nikase feeding into you and supporting you in that. How much do you think this evolution or how would you balance? Because I think it's both. But how would you balance it being a function of opportunity? Like, this is just the space that I now have to ball out versus, like, you discernibly, like, the things that you did in Australia to get better, the things that you did in the off season to get better.
- [55:04]
Veronica Burton
It's definitely both, you know, threes. Like, I needed to become a better shooter. I needed to change how people covered me in ball screens. And that was a big goal of mine. Like going over to Australia. There's incredible shooters over there. But even talking to my coach, Kennedy, who was my coach over there for Bendigo, before signing there, it was just like, look, I'm not just coming over to play. Like, I need to grow, I need to get better. I need to become more of an offensive threat. And he saw that in me and he watched so much film of me at Northwestern and knew what I was capable of and believed in me again. And that's what I need really is a coach that believes in me but is willing to challenge me too. And so 100%, like you can get an opportunity, but if you don't put in the work, like it doesn't really matter or it's just going to repeat itself. So I was a firm believer that if the opportunity came, like, I wasn't going to miss it and I wasn't going to let a lack of preparation be the factor that, that made me miss it. And so I definitely did everything in my power to grow in Australia and I was, it was great. Basketball was really physical. A lot of WNBA players are over there and there's a lot of like translation in the two. And so it was a perfect balance of playing five on five basketball, which I needed because I was getting limited minutes in the W, but also having the opportunity to continue to get like skill sessions in and get a lot of shots up and especially off ball screens and then put that into practice in game and build my confidence with that. And obviously winning a championship there just gives you more professional experience. And I think that carried over a lot. But again, opportunity is a big like, is. Yeah, it goes a long way. Way.
- [56:35]
Zena Caida
It's so funny because literally, Chris Klanis, head coach of the Dallas Wings pre game yesterday was asked, what are, you know, the three main keys. I guess he does this in every presser because one of their reporters asked in the crew and the first one was limit Burton off the ball screens. Okay, you got a rep now. Okay, you got a reputation. And on that I want to ask, like, did you ever think that you could be or would be in those all wow you conversations this season?
- [57:05]
Veronica Burton
It's funny you ask that again. I feel like I'm picking both. Like I knew deep down I don't think I would ever admit that I thought that. Like, if you ask me this, especially my rookie year, last two years, honestly, like, I don't think I would have ever said that out loud that I, that I thought I could be in that conversation, that I thought I could even be. And most improved, like, that's a goal, obviously. And I think in my silence, silent, silent gym days or silent when I'm writing down journaling my goals. Like, that's a me, myself and God type of conversation. But I think if I said it out loud, I, I didn't want people. Like, it sounded almost foolish the way I was playing at the time. So a little bit of both. Like I knew what I was capable of, but I wasn't showing it. So how, like, how can I even have that out there. But again, I was gonna work. Like that was. And like that was a possibility, like that was gonna happen. And that's what I did. And that's. I'm still like really f. Like I have so much farther to go. You know, like there's. I think it's easy to sit here right now after a great game and talk about how sweet it is. But there's so much more and so much more work that I need to do and grow in. And so I think if you ask me, no rookie year, like I was looking up imposter syndrome. I didn't think I belonged in the league. I didn't even know. Like, like, so I don't know. It's just, it's real. It's definitely, yeah. Godly, Godly work, godly opportunity. And I'm just going with it, honestly.
- [58:30]
Zena Caida
So how. How old are you, Veronica?
- [58:32]
Veronica Burton
I just turned 25. 25.
- [58:34]
Zena Caida
You're so deeply reflective and self aware. Like I don't like for you to be. I mean, I almost wanna warn you as a person that's older than you, like, difference between being self critical and also, you know, but it's so impressive to hear you talk about and the growth and be aware of like I could be better in X, Y and Z. And I think it could directly contributes to why you've been so successful and have taken advantage of this opportunity. I do think it's a balance of both. So, you know, even congrats to you on that for that growth shoot. A lot of folks listening know a lot about imposter syndrome that ain't got nothing to do with a basketball court. So I'm sure that is really exciting for them to hear that, you know, you can outgrow it, you can grow through it and that's a good thing. Okay, I gotta close it out with a few quick, fun questions. We just talked a little bit about the most approved and all wnba, et cetera. And I want to ask some awards that you would give out on your team. Okay. And you're excluding yourself. Okay. So during the season, looking at your team, who would you choose? And remember, you got to exclude yourself, but who would you choose as the mip, who would be the most improved player in your opinion on your team?
- [59:46]
Veronica Burton
Um, I would say I'm going to go. Jeanette, our rookie.
- [59:52]
Zena Caida
Yeah, I like that.
- [59:54]
Veronica Burton
I think from like her growth, obviously skill wise, she always had it, you saw it from the jump. But like her growth as a teammate, her growth as just like a listener and an energy giver and just like all of that. So as a whole, I would put Jah for sure.
- [60:14]
Zena Caida
Yeah. Her. Even her communication, like, she's just been so much more communicating now. We chose some mamas of the team. And I know Caitlin Chen, you know, looked at you, and Kate Martin is kind of like her mama. There are some folks that automatically put Mo Billings in that conversation. I'm gonna go the opposite. Who's the little sister of the team?
- [60:36]
Veronica Burton
I would say there's two of them, and it's gonna be Caitlin Chen and it's gonna be Karla Liet, like, easily. I think Karla is like the baby of the team. Everyone is protective of Karla, and she is one of a kind. She's so sweet, so precious. So gotta be Carla.
- [60:55]
Zena Caida
Yeah. Every time Karla hits the floor, I'm like, oh, I. I feel protective of Karla myself as well.
- [61:02]
Veronica Burton
Always giggling. Always. You never know what's going on. But for sure.
- [61:06]
Zena Caida
I love that. I love that.
- [61:07]
Veronica Burton
Okay.
- [61:08]
Zena Caida
And then your team MVP for this season so far and.
- [61:12]
Veronica Burton
Team mvp. I don't think I can just pick one person for our team mvp. I gotta go. All of us.
- [61:18]
Zena Caida
Coach Nat.
- [61:19]
Veronica Burton
I figured you're mvp. There's no one. That's the beaut. Beauty of our team, honestly.
- [61:24]
Zena Caida
Yeah, I was. I was like, I bet you she's gonna cheat this and say coach now.
- [61:28]
Veronica Burton
I'm definitely gonna cheat that one.
- [61:29]
Zena Caida
Yeah. No, that's fair. That's fair. Last question I have for you. You guys are going to the playoffs. If you were to win a championship, would you be the most accomplished Burton in your family?
- [61:42]
Veronica Burton
I like to think so. I mean, shoot, that's gotta help me out a little bit.
- [61:47]
Zena Caida
You got a lineage.
- [61:48]
Veronica Burton
I know my grandfather Ron might be up there. I'm not gonna lie.
- [61:52]
Zena Caida
Okay. Okay.
- [61:53]
Veronica Burton
So it would put me, like, on his tier. I think the rest of them, I'm not too worried about me and my mom. Maybe my mom, I still gotta fight with a little bit. But the rest of em.
- [62:02]
Zena Caida
Yeah. Jenny's pretty impressive. I ain't gonna lie.
- [62:06]
Sabrina Merchant
She is.
- [62:06]
Veronica Burton
She holds it down. She does.
- [62:07]
Ben Pickman
There you go.
- [62:08]
Zena Caida
Well, Veronica, I am so grateful for the conversation. I'm grateful for to be able to walk through your journey through the league so far. It's been so much fun watching your team. I know y' all block out all the noise, but just know so from your perspective. A lot of folks are talking, and everyone's really excited about what you guys are doing out here in the bay, so appreciate your Time. Thanks for joining me and good luck the rest of the way.
- [62:28]
Veronica Burton
Thank you. Thank you so much for having me on. I appreciate it.
- [62:31]
Zena Caida
Thank you so much to Veronica Burton making the time to talk to me. She's the coolest. Now, guys, I know that there is an award campaign happening and teams are doing their due diligence to ensure that voters know who's up for the opportunity. So, Sabrina, talk me through how teams are trying to convince you to vote for their players.
- [62:51]
Sabrina Merchant
Kudos to the Atlanta dream and the Phoenix Mercury. I think they're the tops on my list. Atlanta sent out these goggles for Ali Shagray. You can see them on the YouTube so everybody gets to have a pair. Phoenix Mercury also sent out this like little. I don't even know what to call it. It's like a 3D image thing where you can look at all of the stats of their players. It's really fun.
- [63:10]
Zena Caida
This is very 90s coded. Those little rocks.
- [63:12]
Sabrina Merchant
Yeah, very 90s coded. And Seattle, I just want to credit them. They gave out a bunch of these little crowns which made me think it was the Seattle vers rain, not the Seattle storm. But I like the intra city cross from oceans.
- [63:21]
Zena Caida
Oh, I like it. Okay. Ben, what did you get on your end?
- [63:25]
Ben Pickman
Yeah, I think the Washington mystics have really leaned into a gardening theme. They have a lot of these quick mystics in bloom, flower seeds, gloves, the whole.
- [63:36]
Sabrina Merchant
They're growing something in this.
- [63:38]
Ben Pickman
Yeah, they're growing something.
- [63:38]
Zena Caida
They're playing seeds, they're playing sea. I like it. Okay.
- [63:41]
Ben Pickman
Queen fee a little like orb basketball from the Minnesota links I think has been nice glass basketball paperweight item.
- [63:48]
Zena Caida
Okay.
- [63:49]
Ben Pickman
Underdogs has been the theme for the Connecticut sun. They gave away like a t shirt, some sia rivers dog bone cookie. And if I can go back to it, you know, we haven't received I guess everything we should say by Monday. The Dallas wings I believe gave out a matchbox card and some other racing.
- [64:05]
Sabrina Merchant
Related hot wheels from Dallas Wings.
- [64:07]
Ben Pickman
Hot wheels. M not matchbox hot wheels. And going back to Atlanta, we should give a shout out. They also for some have a special bet bedazzled basketball that one of their front office staffers I know did by hand. So Sid from the Atlanta dream I believe is the artist behind this for their awards campaigns. Atlanta really trying to make a sparkly splash of sorts in awards season.
- [64:29]
Zena Caida
Oh, and they are. That is gorgeous. Shout out to all the teams. Shout out to the efforts that everyone in the PR teams are making to ensure that their players are getting the love that they deserve. And for that, that is all we've got for you today. We'll be back on Friday with our playoff preview. So wherever you're listening, please follow our show. And if you're watching on YouTube, do your job. Subscribe, y'.
- [64:52]
Veronica Burton
All.
- [64:52]
Zena Caida
Make sure you tell your friends and your mama about us. I hear that moms love us. We're great.
- [64:57]
Sabrina Merchant
Okay. They love your moms, you know, that's for sure.
- [64:59]
Zena Caida
Yeah, no, my I. Yes, love it. My mom has apparently like there's been a lot of inquiries about my mom after the last show, me talking about my, my, my experiences with refs. But anyways, that means you have to go listen to that last show to understand what I'm talking about if you didn't already. But make sure you're giving us a rating, dropping a comment, making sure the universe can get this show to the right ears. That will help us. We want to hear from you guys as well. Head on over to our partner, the Yahoo Sports Hub for more content. Sports.yahoo.com womens-sports on behalf of the Athletic Ben Pickman, Sabrina Merchant, I'm Zena Keda thanking you for listening and we will see you next time. Time no Off Season is hosted by Zena Kada with Chantelle Jennings, Sabrina Merchant and Ben Pickman. It's produced by Tanika Burrell. Our executive producers are Andrea B. Scott and Cassius Fleming. Our theme music is by Marcus Bagala. Monica Compton is our video editor. Shannon Ryan is Managing Editor of Women's Basketball at the Athletic. Jessie Burton is our Head of audio and Tim McMaster is director of Audio operations.
- [66:21]
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- [67:07]
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Ben Pickman
Business up for the 5 year price lock guarantee and I can't stop high fiving people.
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Comcast Business Advertiser
That's perfectly natural when you sign up for gig speed, Internet and advanced security locked in at a great rate for five years.
- [67:21]
Zena Caida
Really, that's great news.
- [67:22]
Comcast Business Advertiser
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- [67:28]
Sabrina Merchant
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Zena Caida
Excluding taxes and fees.
- [67:36]
Sabrina Merchant
Other restrictions apply.
- [67:37]
Zena Caida
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