← No Offseason: The Athletic Women's Basketball Show
No Offseason: The Athletic Women's Basketball Show
WNBA Contenders: Are We Destined for an Aces-Liberty Final?
01:07:34
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D
We're already being faced with the question of like can New York stay healthy for an entire season? And what does that look like? I think that's kind of where Sawtu comes into play of like New York needing the depth to like if they lose one of their big maybe they need a big four because one of their big three inevitably always goes down. And then you're able to plug in. You still have a big three and you're not putting so much pressure on JJ or Stewie to have to be that. Because what Stewie and JJ do for New York is they give them that ability to put the three players but Sabrina, Stewie and JJ in Horn's actions and then you're like, pick your poison.
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B
Hello everyone and welcome to no off season. I'm Zena Kada.
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D
I'm Laysha Clarendon.
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E
And I'm Sabrina Merchant.
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B
And today on the show, we're Diving into a topic that's going to define a lot of this upcoming season. Who are the real contenders in the wnba? You got a handful of teams that look the part on paper, but when you really start breaking it down, rosters, fit, identity, health, there's a lot to unpack about who's actually built to win. And as we've been doing these last few, you know, shows, we got some questions, some big ones. But first, y'.
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D
All.
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B
Hey, it's been a while. Okay.
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D
Welcome back. Welcome back.
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B
Thank you so much. I have had so much fun listening to the Marvel universe or no off season universe. New pairings along the show. It's been a lot of fun. You guys come covered a great big ton of questions and topics across, you know, this interesting preseason. The basketball's been interesting, but the moves have been more, you know, fascinating. And I'm just grateful that you guys have kept me up to date. And if you haven't caught up to those shows, definitely go listen to them. Some information, like, you know, there's been some signings that have maybe made some of that information a little bit old, but trust me, the vibes are great. They'll never get old. And I've really, really appreciated the shows. Leigh, Sabrina, how are y' all doing?
- [03:29]
E
I feel like we all took some time off, right? Like Xena, you had your debrief. I got to, you know, meet a new family member. I was off for about a week.
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B
Yeah.
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E
Laysha, you were celebrating a birthday, right?
- [03:39]
D
Yes, I was out. I was on the water. I was chilling. After I got thrown in, it was like my starting point guard left. They're like, z nazelle, host the show. I was like, what do you mean? I was like, who's hosting today at the Prep Call? They're like, you. The night before, I was like, you
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B
did a great job.
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E
Great job.
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B
Yeah. And I, you know, shout out to Annie Costable. Cause she jumped right in.
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E
Literally.
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B
She got rebooted.
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E
None of us do three shows a week.
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B
Crazy. Exactly. So shout out to Annie. She had the takes. She had the thoughts. It was great. I'm hoping that everyone's enjoying our new little new family that's developing here. But before we get into the title contenders, part of our new family is something written as well. The new off season newsletter. Okay. It's live. I know. I've been telling y' all it's coming. It's officially live. All the great women's hoops coverage and news you can expect from the athletic is packaged up beautifully for your Inbox every Tuesday. So make sure you go check out the show notes. Cause there's more information about that there. Now let's talk about some news around the association. Specifically a couple of notable roster cuts. First up, Golden State. Y', all. I came back literally this morning with neck spasms and back spasms. Okay. If you know, I got back, I have. I have notorious spinal issues, but I really feel like the WNBA was trying me. Okay. They were like, xena's out. Oh, bet. We gonna just do some stuff that's just gonna stress her out while she'. While she's trying to figure out what is going on. Golden State started up when they waived Marta Suarez. We got some thoughts on that. Of course, that name should sound familiar. If you guys remember our show where we did around the draft. She was just traded on draft night from the Seattle Storm in exchange for flaujay Johnson. Sabrina, I'mma start with you. Would love to get your insights on this. How surprising is it that they moved on from Marta Suarez this quickly after such a big trade?
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E
Yeah, I mean, if you remove it from the trade. Right. The idea that a 16th pick doesn't make the final roster, especially a roster like Golden State that had so much continuity from a year before, it's really hard to make the final 12 in WWA, even when it is 12 versus 11. And you know, you've got Gabby Williams coming in, Kia Stokes coming in. Like just a good number of veterans already on Golden State. It was, you know, going to be an uphill battle for anybody drafted to make that team. So I think, you know, independently of the context of the trade, am I surprised that Martin Suarez is not on the final 12? Not entirely. You know, wish her all the best. Like trying to find another spot in the wnba. Just because you get cut once doesn't mean, like, that's over for you. Like things keep happening. Right. Like you just keep working at it. But when you trade your number 8 pick for Martasaurus in another second rounder, let's be clear. But. And then don't have the room to keep her. That's where I'm a little surprised. Right? Like just. There's a little bit of asset management here. You know, usually somebody who gets selected number eight should be a part of your future. And to turn that into a player who doesn't end up making the roster, to be clear, like, she could clear waivers, join the team. Isn't one of those developmental spots, like, we don't know if that's happened yet, but it is a little Surprising that like this is the results of having the number eighth pick in the draft. And it's again, like everything in the draft was so weird. Like the way it happened, the way Ohema explained it. And this just makes it all feel weirder, right? That they made this decision knowing that like, hey, we might not even have room for somebody to make our final roster. Like, why didn't you take a stash pick at that spot? You know, like, why? I don't know. I feel badly for Marta. I continue to have questions about all of that draft day decision making. But, you know, kudos to Blaje for apparently found a good spot in Seattle.
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D
So. Yeah, that's the point that I was going to say.
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B
I was gonna say, what are your thoughts?
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D
Cause that could have easily been flage. Like you weren't. The Valkyries essentially had open tryout spots because they had four or five players still overseas. So it was like, hey, welcome. You get to tryout. It is kind of weird that you use the number 8 pick as a tryout spot because there's more roster spots, there's more developmental spots. I think that's the overall. Kind of hard to fathom that a number eight pick in the first round of the draft could essentially just be trying to out for not a real spot. We talked about this on a few episodes back of like, are there real waster spots available or are you just kind of there? It's always a tryout when you're in camp, right? Cause you can be brought back, someone else can see you. You get to be a part of a culture. But that would have could have been flage because the Valkyries just did not have space. But anytime you're welcomed into a camp, it's an opportunity and that's what you want in this league. Any opportunity, you get to step into a camp to show what you can do, to have live tape to show your overseas teams to show another team when they pick you up is a win. So I'm hopefully for Marta, I think the question is always for her game is like defensively, is she quick enough? Can she guard in this league? Can she switch out and guard threes, twos? If she had to switch on a point guard laterally, can she keep someone in front of her? I think that's the question. I think her strength down low, I've been impressed with watching her, but I have questions about her defensively and I think shooting a three, she'll be fine and solid. And a player like that who can knock down, who can play Three, four is always going to be an asset in this league, so I do hope she gets picked up.
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B
Yeah, I think it is worth remembering that Golden State, even in their expansion draft year, has always felt like they've had this level of flexibility. Oheman Yanen made it very clear, especially when it came to the draft last year when she picked, you stay ustute. And everyone was like, who? What? That's your first pick of Golden State history, and you're doing this with your top 10 pick, a lottery pick in that regard, and you're picking a player that most people in the Bay have never heard of. And Ohima's response is like, y', all, we really did our homework hard during the expansion draft. That was our team. That was our main thing. So anything else we were adding on was just like a bonus at that point. And it's also important to remember that when Caitlin Chen came back onto the Golden State Valkyries in the midst of, you know, players going overseas last year for Euroball or Euroleague.
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E
Excuse me, Eurobasket.
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B
The Eurobasket. Thank you for Eurobasket. Caitlin Chen told people that. Natalie Nakase told her, just wait, we're gonna bring you back, right? And so exactly what you guys are kind of, you know, poking on is this is just wait.
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D
These.
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B
Whether it's a developmental role that potentially could be offered to Marta. There's possibilities throughout the season, as Sabrina mentioned, you now get an opportunity to be in camp or. Excuse me, Alaysia, you mentioned, you know, you get the opportunity to be in camp, get to be seen, get to have an impression made that when the time comes, perhaps you're going to be brought back. Stay ready. Chloe Bibby, right? Stay ready. Clayton Chen. These. These type of things have happened. I don't want to just talk about the Valkyries because we've seen a lot of cuts happen as of late, or wavings at least, that you're like, hmm, that's interesting. Folks. Just remember, you can't become a developmental player until you clear. You have to be waived, and then you have to clear waivers, and then you can be brought back in that regard. So be, you know, be mindful of that and then also be mindful of the fact that folks come back, injuries happen, these rosters are short, and so there's. It doesn't necessarily mean that it's completely over for a player. Now, let's keep it going with Seattle on our mind for a little bit. They also waived their first round pick, Tyina Mayer, who was selected 14th overall. Now, remember, that pick was interesting because it was one of the bigger surprises on draft night. And that makes this move, again, more interesting in that regard to Sabrina. I love the way that you started all of this with remove the context of, you know, the swap for flaujay and you know, the way that it was explained, et cetera. That pick with Marta Suarez is a little, feels a little bit more sticky and complex in comparison to this one. Tynemere getting selected 14th overall, they end up getting flauge. I'm curious of how you think the storm may have evaluated Tynen Mayor and camp.
- [11:46]
E
Yeah, I mean, I think Leysha can actually probably speak better to what Tyena looked like in camp. Having been around Seattle more than I have. But just independently of that, like, again, we're, we've been used to seeing late first round picks cut in the WNBA and now the first round is longer. Right. So a 14th pick getting cut, that used to be a second round pick as recently as last season. Right. And no one would bat an eye at a second round pick getting cut before the start of the season. So I think just the way we think about, you know, who is like guaranteed to make a team and who like still has to fight is just a little bit. We have to reevaluate a little bit just based on how long the draft is. You know, even with the rosters being a little bigger, like just because they get cut, maybe they come back for a developmental spot. I do think Tyena Mayor, like, I wonder if she was part of the plan before they knew Flage was on the team and like, if that cut into like her, you know, way of making the roster at all. Because, like, now that you have another guard, and I'm not saying they play the exact same position, but like they're both backcourt players. Right? So I don't think again, like, this is the last we're going to see tiny mare. But I will just say one thing, like, I find it so fascinating on the WNBA side. Like you see this on the NBA side. Well, there'll be these like NCAA tournament risers, you know, and it's like a guy who didn't play very well for the first part of his season, but then has a really good march. And I've always understood it on the men's side because, like, you're drafting freshmen, right? Like you're drafting very young players. I find it fascinating that we still have this on the women's side because you have four years of tape on these players. So like, how are we still getting these tournament risers? Why are we letting one month or two months over rule four years of tape. And not to say that tightening wasn't great throughout her college career, but she experienced a significant uptick at the end of her senior season. And I'm always fascinated how much are GMs evaluating this versus everything that happened before it. So just something I always have my eye on because I think we're seeing it more and more in another player that we're going to talk about a little bit later too, that had a March bump in their draft stock.
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B
Lei, you saw it firsthand.
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D
I feel like it's the human psychology too. Either way, men's side, women's side, that's people are biased, right? The person who's front of mind with like you're saying to Mayor, she had a great college career, but also she crushed it in the tournament. I think watching her live, when I look at I don't think she beat out Jade Melbourne or Natisha Heideman. I think that's the problem. Had one of them not been on the squad. Maybe she's got that other backup point guard opportunity to develop, but they've already got to solid. Also tiny. I'm calling them like the little the mini group. Like there's three little point guards on that team. And yeah, watching their game, I think she just didn't beat them out at the end of the day. Like she's not better than Jade or Natisha. So it's just a tough break. Maybe there's room in that developmental spot like we talked about in coming back. I think it's hard for fans too to see the cuts. To your point, Sabrina, the first round's longer, but also the CBA was so amazing. We have more roster spots. Like it's one more roster spot. It was kind of like half because
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E
a lot of teams were already carrying 12.
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D
Right. And it's two developmental spots which we haven't aren't solidified yet. So it's like, wait, wait, wait. I thought I wasn't going to have to see my favorite player get cut anymore. Like, it's that vibes and we're still being faced with the reality of like, yeah, this cutthroat is to make a roster is not easy. So yeah, I like Mar a lot though. I just think I thought it was really good for her to be in camp with Heideman and Melbourne because there's such good comps in terms of like size. You're not like you're playing against a cloud or Chelsea, someone else who you're just like, mm, they can't compete. It's like she's. She got to be measured up against her equals. Like, these are typically backup point guards who could be on a solid team. Can they lead teams? I don't know. That's the question for Seattle. But she got a really good measuring stick with the players around her in camp.
- [15:24]
B
It's almost like you read my mind, Lei, because the very next person I want to talk about is the fact that Natasha Cloud got signed, which is great news, especially for a lot of folks that were wondering, you know, what's going on. This is a really great player, especially defensively, a really strong point guard. And the Chicago sky ends up picking up Natasha Cloud. And what does that lead to? The dismissal or the waiving at least of a notable first rounder from last year's draft, Haley Van Lith. This is where the conversation we started with about, you know, developmental player opportunities and people getting waived, and you're like, what's going on? This is where this is gonna come into question because Hailey Benlith gets waived. And according to sources close to the team, it was related to style of play. That was reported by Kendra Andrews. I'm not sure if we also share that on the Athletic, but Kendra Andrews, espn shared that style of play is interesting because that is not necessarily. We're waving you because we're gonna develop you more if you don't play the style that is expected in Chicago. What are you gonna do with that? Not sure. But Chicago Sky Wave Haley Van Lith, they bring in Natasha Clough Lay. I'm gonna start with you. Cause this is a point guard conversation.
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D
I know. I'm like. I'm like, how many point guards they have?
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B
This is a point guard conversation.
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E
So I feel like you're their demographic to sign too. If you wanted to get another spot.
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B
I was gonna say, you know, I know the veteran checks are happening, however these contracts are right.
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D
You're like, I haven't got the check yet. So you haven't got.
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B
Now, for the sake of no off season. For the sake of no off season, we'd be like, hey, you know, just stay retired, you know, but just in
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D
case, you gotta exercise that team option. Yeah. See where I'm at in my comments.
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B
Okay, so give us some thoughts, Lei. Of what? Your whole thoughts on Hailey Vanleth not only being waived, but then also the signing of Natasha Cloud. What does this mean for the identity? I know you're big on identity.
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D
Oh, God. I mean, my first thought was like, they're really all in on the personality. So I love this for Chicago. Like they're like big, bold. They. Yeah, I don't know if they'll lead the league in text. Like they're giving a clear identity. They should. Right. Lean into it. Like, I'm all for being that demonstrative kind of player. So I had to be like, I had to write out like, wait, Skyler Sloot, dijonay Cloud. I was like, double check Rekiya. Making sure I didn't miss anybody. Elizabeth Williams and Rachel Banham will balance. You know, they'll bring the temperature down. They've got Camilla, she's not quiet in her own right. So their identity is clear and I love that. I like that they're. We were just talking about Atlanta a little bit ago of like, no matter who Atlanta's coaches, like, they seem to have this like gritty style of play if you're going to be in Atlanta. So I like that Chicago, even though they got rid of angel, like, it's clear that that wasn't necessarily why. It wasn't because they didn't like her style of play and that kind of like dog beast mode player who's also not afraid to be chirpy. That's a clear for me is like they're gonna talk.
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E
There's some chirping happening.
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B
Absolutely. Yeah.
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D
For style of play. I always thought Haley Van Liff was tough because she's like a scorer but a point guard. And you fall in these weird categories where like, are you really a point guard or are you just a scorer who's small and therefore what other position do you play? Because you can't really be a two in this league at your height. And if you're a two, you also have to be able to play defense. So these are, well, questions we have to ask big picture wise. So I don't necessarily think if you looked at Natasha Cloud or Haley Van Lith, it's a no brainer in terms of like their current style of play in the roster they're trying to put together. I think it does beg the question about development. Chicago's saying like they're telling us they're expecting to win sooner than later with the roster they're putting together. And so yeah, I don't. It doesn't sound like it was a personal thing or that it was just like, yeah, she doesn't really fit. And so hopefully she lands somewhere where I think her decision making question is always a thing for me as a point guard. It's like, can you play? And it's the hardest position to play. And so if you're not a true point guard, it's like you're just having to figure out how, even if you've done it in college, you've had the ball in your hands a lot. But are you actually a point guard?
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B
And let's just talk about who the actual Courtney Vandersloot, Skyler Diggins, and now Natasha Clout. That's tough.
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D
That's a lot to compete with.
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B
Sabrina. That's incredibly difficult to try and, you know, beat out. And so I get it from a Haley Van Lith perspective, but now I'm trying to figure out the style of play aspect. Thinking of those being your three point guards. When you think about the style of play that Chicago's trying to achieve or is trying to, you know, formulate with these guards at hand, what is the style of play that comes to mind for you?
- [20:19]
E
Well, my question is, like, how did you not know that she wasn't your style of play like a month ago when you traded away a pick and swapped another pick to get out of the expansion draft so you could keep her on your team? What are we doing? How did you not know then that she wasn't Tyler Marsh's style of play? Again, I hate to keep asking that
- [20:42]
B
question even part of this last year. Yeah, right. Like Tyler Marsh had Hailey Benlif last year. Right. And you there, we could have. We, we saw no indication that this was the route they were going. And what you just laid out only continued that like, oh, they're buying in to Haley Van Lip. And so that's why it's. That also was a little curious in that regard, but. Sorry, continue.
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E
What else are you saying? That's why, like, I, I'm not sure I necessarily buy the style of play being the reason why Haley is not on the team. It's like, oh, we had an opportunity to sign Natasha Cloud. We're trying to win games this year. Yeah, we think Natasha Cloud is better than Hayley Vanleth is now, which I. Let's just put that cleanly. Natasha Cloud is better than Haley Van Lith is now, and she might be better than Haley Van Lith ever will be, honestly. So if you're trying to win games in 2026 because you do not control the rights to your first round pick in 2027, like, you're going to be better in the present, you're probably better in the immediate future too, with Natasha Cloud on your team versus hvl. Like, you're going to be better defensively. She knows how to organize an offense. So I get it. Like it's, it's an upgrade at the position. I don't need to be sold on. Like, oh, we separated because she didn't fit our style of play. Like, you want to win games, she's better for you for winning games. That's fine.
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D
Rather than just come out and say that, yeah, yeah, it's fine, we're better now.
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B
The comment was very curious.
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D
This is one of those side effects too where like a player catches a stray because Cloud was available. This is like that. Like she might not have done anything wrong. Right? She was developing. Hayley Vanleth works really hard from everything I know in the off season, puts in the time, like. But then it's like, ah, sorry, Natasha. Cloud was available and we have the opportunity to take her. How do we not take her at this with trying to win now?
- [22:20]
B
So like, listen, the style of play is win now, right? That's the style of play. Let's win this year. Okay. On the other side of this break, y', all, we are going to go into who we think the teams will be fighting for the top spots in the W. Don't go anywhere.
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D
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- [24:01]
B
Alrighty welcome back, y'.
- [24:03]
D
All.
- [24:03]
B
I am so excited because y' all decided for me to save the group of teams that we're talking about today. The teams that are gonna win, the teams that are gonna be in the running to win the whole thing. And that, I feel like is a lot easier than talking about some of the teams that are trying to figure out their identity, trying to figure out their build, their roster construction. They're kind of in the middle. They're teetering and tottering. The people that are like, are they gonna be tanking? Like, also love that conversation of Annie was like, if I. I don't know Cheryl, but I know, but I know they ain't taken. I love it. That ego. Yes. I love it. So this is interesting because it's been a while since we've done something like this. We're bringing back the Sabrina scale, y'. All.
- [24:47]
D
Woo.
- [24:47]
B
It's here. I don't know if we have a little music for it, but it is here. We typically reserve this for the college space, but, hey, let's do it. Why not? I might say that every single week, but it's really true. Sabrina scale is, like, my favorite. It's your top. It's your power rankings. Okay, we're back. It's coming out. Every Monday will be coming out, and this week, your preseason rankings landed. And the teams we're going to be talking about today are the ones that happen to be in the top five. So Sabrina, lay them out for us, please.
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E
Yeah. So number one with Bullet. I hope there's not too much surprise here is Las Vegas. Then we've got New York, Atlanta, Indiana and Dallas.
- [25:29]
D
Mm.
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B
Okay, so let's go ahead and just start up at the top. Okay. The Las Vegas Aces, reigning champions, most dominant team right now in the league. One of the most, at least. When you start looking a little bit deeper, though, it feels like a little deja vu. There's a little. There's some questions last year before they got to where they are, and there's some still interesting questions this year. Will they be as dominant as everyone thinks? And related to that, can they get to a faster start this season than they did last season? Because the questions were loud last year and it took Minnesota giving a Molly whopping the Aces before some of those questions got loudly answered and handled. So let's dig into it. Where do we think they're going to start in terms of their dominance? Are we going to see a rolling, you know, 100 start? Like, what's it going to start, like for The Aces, well, I would expect
- [26:31]
E
them to look a lot more like the second half of the season than the first. And, you know, the Molly Wappin was a big part of their, you know, eventual ascension, but it was also the trade for Nalissa Smith. Right. That just solidified the front court in a way that wasn't working with, you know, Megan Gustafson and Kia Stokes starting next to Asia and Alyssa Smith next to her, just makes so much more sense. And having an actual off season in that system, you know, like all of the success that came at the end of last year, I can only imagine that that pairing is going to get even stronger. You've got Bree Turner, who I think is a really interesting, like, defensive big and can do a lot of things like switchable and like Indiana used her in a lot of cool ways last year defensively during their postseason run. I like the addition of Kennedy Carter, just sort of filling in for what Dana Evans was able to give them while she's recovering from her off season injury. Fascinated by Janiah Barker. I don't know how much she's actually going to contribute, but, like, I think if you're going to learn how to be a WNBA player, doing it from Asia Wilson seems like the possible situation for her. So, yeah, you bring back basically the whole band that scored all of your points during the Finals and you have all of these interesting potential depth pieces to help you during the regular season. So I don't really see this as a team that's going to like, challenge the Houston Comets win record because I don't know that they're deep enough to like, bring it for 44 games during the regular season. But when it comes to the postseason, like, I don't have a lot of questions about what this team can accomplish.
- [27:50]
B
Yeah, right. The postseason is never a question lay. And I'm thinking about the start of a season, thinking about what it takes for a team to start strong. It does feel like the Aces are set up for the continuity that they have with their roster and the new pieces that Sabrina just laid out for them to just come out guns blazing. But what does it really take? Like, you would know more than we would.
- [28:16]
D
I mean, I'm laughing at the Minnesota whopping. I don't know if they have to pull that film up again. I don't think Becky's like, showing you at the start of the season, they know they need to start better. Like, that was atrocious. The bar was. Yeah, it was. We were all just a little shocked. Like, what happened to them. So I think they will. I don't think it's a matter of like that terrible of a start having last year. I think it was honestly, as a player embarrassing at times because they had that much talent. Like, you know, Asia looking left to right, like, and now that you get paid more money too, this is another conversation of like, you're getting paid to show up every single night. Like real dollars, not them little. Okay. You're thinking about going overseas and making your real money. You're getting the coins now. Yeah. I think Bree Turner is an interesting player that I like. I was writing down notes about her and is she like a Kia Stokes upgrade in terms of like, she'll come off the bench, she fits better. She's going to do all the little things still. You're going to get all that defense from her. I really like Step Talbot too. I think I like that the Aces actually got a little bit of depth because we talked about how fortunate they have been to stay healthy over the last years and win because it's really hard to do that. You're one injury away from, you know, being out of the playoffs. I think the interesting thing I want to get into is, like, are they good without Asia Wilson? You know, knock on wood. All the health, everybody, all the blessings, God, like, cover everybody. But they're a team that, like, you take Asia Wilson off this team and like, I was looking at her usage rate and she's got the highest usage rate in the league. So this team is Asia Wilson, you know, don't have a runny nose, don't have a sick couple. Like, you know, I don't know what is the in the future of her, you know, family building plan. All that good stuff of like, if Asia Wilson decides she wants to take a break, like, we're kind of double taking at the Aces. They still have a ton of talent. Jackie's usage rate is up there too. I think it's 24% high in the league. But like, you look at some other teams like Indiana who lost Caitlin and still were able to do what they did last year, I have the question of, like, could. Could Las Vegas do what Indiana did last year without Asia Wilson? Like, are there other players? I think the start of their season last year too, like, they were figuring out how to play with Plum, right? Their roster had took a big shakeup and they had that three guard lineup with Plum, Jackie and Chelsea that they just was very unfair for many years and had to figure out how to work without that. And yeah, I think they'll be better. But I'd be curious what you guys think about Asia Wilson, you know, taking some time off or not being with the squad. What. What do the Aces actually look like?
- [30:56]
E
I don't think they even consider it. Yeah, I think it's just we have Asia. We're going to build a team around Asia because Asia is the best player in the world. And, you know, maybe it's a less resilient formula than other teams, but as long as you've Asia works out pretty well.
- [31:08]
B
Yeah, no, this is a really good point about what this team looks like and what they're capable of. You talked about the Indiana Fever doing it without Caitlin Clark. Of course. We saw that go into the playoffs. I'm thinking about even during the regular season, what Lynx did without Napisa Collier last year. They were able to hold it down. And that is. This is a thing that we haven't seen the Aces prove just yet, is that they have a system and an identity that exists whether or not their superstar is on the floor and what that looks like and how that plays out. Now they have some new players that I'm looking at. Kennedy Carter's like, she's not disrespecting and saying, asia who? But Kennedy Carter's like, I could do this. Right. We saw the way that she scored when she was at Chicago two years ago. This. I feel like this is an opportunity for her to really show up and show out in the case that they didn't have her. But it's hard to speculate because they have Asia, and it's a completely different situation when they do. Um, but thinking about Kennedy Carter coming onto this team and being a new opportunity or a new outlet, a new way for the Aces show up on the floor, this is kind of fun to think about. Like, I'm. I'm excited about what that duo, her and Chelsea be out on the floor. Her or Jackie be out on the floor. These are people you have to guard. Like, this is going to be a really tough decision to make if you're looking at this backcourt, offensively especially. But what could happen with. With Kennedy, Carter, and also this being her return to the wnba.
- [32:40]
E
No, no. I mean, I like Kennedy kind of filling in for some of those non Asian minutes, you know, because she's not a shooter or like a spacer. Right. You know, like Dana Evans, I think is such a nice compliment to Asia because she can stretch the floor, whereas Kennedy is, like, the best guard at scoring in the paint in W. Like, honestly, in 2024, I think she was. So I, I like her filling in those minutes. Like just having like an offensive hub, you know, that you can go to in like in lieu of Asia. Right?
- [33:06]
B
Yep.
- [33:07]
E
I do wonder how she fits into like more of the Aces system. Because Becky is going to stretch her out. Right? Like, Becky's not going to just let her not shoot. That's just not what happens in Las Vegas. Like, even Kia Stokes was taken threes by the end of that term. So I am interested to see what kind of development happens there because she is so talented, she's so skilled, but she's been allowed to play one way for basically her entire basketball career. And I wonder what else she has in her bag that Becky Hammond can get out of her.
- [33:34]
B
It's worth saying Kennedy Carter's three point percentage. 29% in that year in Chicago. 26%.
- [33:43]
E
Pretty low volume too.
- [33:44]
B
Yeah, very low volume. She barely took a three per game. She took under half a three when she was in the league back in 2022. This is not a three point shooting person. This is not someone.
- [33:57]
D
She's smart. She knows what her game is.
- [33:59]
B
She's not out there talking about this is her game. Exact. Almost 49% from the two in 2024. And you're absolutely right. I think just her capacity to isolate ISO score is unreal. But Leija, is that. Oh, go ahead. Yeah.
- [34:17]
D
I'm curious if you see them. Like the Aces love to run their guard to guard stuff or the ghosting. Because we, we. I don't want to keep hyper fixating on Asia not being in it, but I think who else is in the pick and roll? Like who? You. You can put Brianna Turner in it, you can put Nalissa Smith in it. But like Asia draws so much attention, therefore the guards have the space to do what they do. So. But I'm wondering with Kennedy Carter, like, yeah. Do they run more guard to guard action or like we saw them run that. God damn. I see how my frustration in guarding is like that. All that flip action stuff that they run. We're like in Kennedy even getting like a guard to switch onto Kennedy and then she can take them off the dribble. Like, you don't always have to put a post and a guard in the pick and roll. We've seen much more. We've seen that trend change in the WNBA a lot. Minnesota runs ghost action or guard to guard action and they'll literally slip out of it, which is a ghost. So I'm curious to see like how deep Becky's going to get in her bag one with managing rotations because she's had an extremely short bench for so much of her time. So how does she manage rotations now that she has a bit more depth? Where does Steph Talbot fit in all of this? We've seen her be a player that was good in Seattle, didn't stick with the Valkyries last year. Good 3 point shooter, can play the 3 4. How does she manage the like confidence wise and building up some of these players who haven't stuck on her roster. Really, that's something I think we haven't had to see a ton from Becky because she's just had really good talent and she's won championships. But I'm curious to see the depths of her getting into her larger coaching bag and what that can look like and then how she utilizes Kennedy knowing she's not a volume three point shooter. Are we going to see her develop that three point shot or are we just going to be like, yo, there's a Kennedy rule. Let Kennedy do what Kennedy does. Like we'll put her in specific situations. I'm really fascinated to watch.
- [36:01]
B
Yeah. One, I'll say this, Becky gonna call Teresa. She's gonna call up Teresa Weatherspoon and be like, what worked? What didn't work would you like? Et cetera. You, you can imagine she's gonna utilize her network in that regard. But two, as you mentioned, the guard to guard like this is. That's what I'm imagining with Kennedy. Someone like Kennedy Carter, you can hunt matchups really well. You can utilize those actions, as you mentioned, to figure out who do you want in front of Kennedy that is not gonna have the lateral quickness to be able to stop her on. So this is going to be a great opportunity to just see how she plays alongside those better guards. Because that's something that if you were. If you've been watching more recently and you're like, oh, I only know Kennedy from this one time or her one year with Chicago. She didn't have a ton of really great guards around her. Interestingly enough, Dana was there with her. But she's replacing Dana in this opportunity now. It's going to be alongside someone that if she's flaring off and she can curl off that flare, she can go. And it's Jackie at the top of the key, you know, she could pop back to. I mean these are. There's so many opportunities for them to just be able to hunt matchups in that way. So that's gonna be really exciting.
- [37:08]
D
To watch her and for her to be a part of a great system, too. We talked. That's something I talk about a ton. Like, being really. Not that she wasn't well coached in Chicago. I think T. Spoon, it seemed like she really got to Kennedy and her players in terms of, like, pouring into them, but being a part of a consistent team that's had cohesiveness, that's got really good guards who've been together. Like, she's gonna be in the best possible. Like, if Kennedy Carter can't succeed in this situation, I will be so sad because she's got everything around her. I hope that it's just everything that she's needed. Right. The coaching she's got, the veteran guard, she's got a good system, great leaders with Asia, that this is like a player who's got multiple chances, who has so much talent but can finally get. We can finally see. Right. The true nature of and, like, what her ceiling really is when she's in a good situation. Because that stuff matters.
- [38:01]
B
Yeah, I agree with you. I'm with Sabrina. I think she was the best scoring guard back in 2024. So we'll see what she's able to add to the Vegas Aces this year. Okay, let's move on to the New York Liberty. Obviously, before the Aces regained that title in 2025, it was new York that took them off the throne back in 2024, and last year, they didn't make it past the semis. They move on from head coach Sandy Brondello, who is now with the Toronto Tempo. They keep their big three, Brianna Stewart, Jonquil Jones, Sabrina Nescu, and they add Satu Sablee, while they also said goodbye to her sister Niara, who is now in Toronto with Sandy as well. But this is big. Okay. One, we talk about the Aces and their biggest aspect. And also the links are like this, too, that continuity. This is something that has been so valuable for these big teams. Well, New York has been incredibly continuous and having those Big Three. But then you add in someone like Satusable, who. We finally got to see glimpses of her health last year towards the end of the season in Phoenix. We know she is called the unicorn for a reason, defensively and even offensively, like, she's going to be a boon to this team. But. But I'm curious in what side of the ball is going to be the biggest boon. What do we see in Satus Abli joining the Liberty? How does this raise their ceiling? Sabrina, I'll start with you.
- [39:35]
E
Yeah, I mean, I think what's important to note with the Liberty is when they had their preferred starting lineup intact last year with, you know, Cloud Feebicz and those Big Three, they were incredible, like, just so dominant. And it was really health that limited them from being better during the regular season. You know, put them on the road in the first round of the playoffs. And, you know, even Stewie suffers that injury during the first round of the playoffs, right? So I don't know that, like, they necessarily had so much ground they needed to cover during the off season as much as, like, they just needed to be healthier. And unfortunately, we've already gotten the news that Sabrina Nescu is out for the first two weeks of the season because of an ankle that she rolled during preseason game. So that depth is going to get tested right away. And, like, that's where it's interesting how SATU fits in here because, you know, she's got the nickname the Unicorn. She does so many different things, right? And on the New York roster, it's like, well, what do they need her to do? Because Jonquill is like, the rim protector, right? Stewie is already like the glue. I do everything. I'm. I can bring the ball up. I can score in, like, late clock situations. I can initiate offense. What's the spacing gonna look like? You know, I like, is it gonna be point Stewie and, like, SATU just fills in, like, the power forward role while Sabrina's out? Like, you could just do so many interesting things with her because she has a lot of varied skills. I just wonder. It's a lot to ask of a first year head coach to manage this level of talent. Obviously, it's easier than not having talent, but I also think it's a lot to manage all of this at once. And to already have your rotation in flux at the start of the season has got to be even more confusing. So I really do wonder, were they planning on starting Satu at the 3 and Leo at the 2, or is Panijah at the 2 or is Sarah? Like, are they just gonna go, like, super big now with Sabrina out for the first two weeks, like Leo Banijah and SATU as your perimeter? Like, that could be fun, but then, like, it's really points to it at that point. So I. I really think SATU allows them to try all sorts of things. And I hope Chris DiMarco is just as creative as possible because, like, I. I know that Stewie can do basically anything. Like, I know SATU is like, called the Unicorn for a reason. So, like, let's let's try some out, you know, like, let's have some fun here.
- [41:41]
B
That's the crazy. That's the thing. The thing is, like, you bring in somebody like Chris DiMarco and the whole concept around him was he's worked with Stephen Curry, Sabrina Unes. Sabrina Unescu is New York's Stephen Curry. And he is the most perfect and perfectly aligned coach to be able to find the most success out of this roster. With Sabrina being the primary ball handler, that goes away.
- [42:09]
D
And that's partly why. Is that partly why you don't re sign Cloud. Right. We don't need to have a point guard like that. We have Sabrina.
- [42:16]
E
Right.
- [42:16]
B
And then you don't. And then you don't. And so, Leysha, like, I'm looking at this, I'm sure you've experienced, you know, these types of ups and downs. But what I am particularly curious about when it comes to SATU is SATU has been the big. When you say big three, she has been a part of a big three where she's wherever she's at, right. That she has always been in the role in Dallas and in Phoenix. I'm a part of the big three now. She's coming to a team. She's not part of a big three, but one of the big three is down. And Sabrina, you know, you're hit on the questions I have, like, what do you do with her? How does she fit into this? What do you think she does? And with that, what does failure look like for New York? Is the question of finding a way to integrate something like someone like SA2, is that the goal or are we focusing on, you know, for this season? Is that the goal or is we focusing on. Listen, we're in win now mode. It doesn't matter SATU whether you play it or not. We're not thinking about that. We need to find a way to just succeed. Even if it includes SATU not actually being utilized as much as she probably has on previous teams.
- [43:28]
D
Right. I mean, well, her usage rate was like 28% at Phoenix. It was pretty high. So, like, I think when you're coming to a team, if I'm SATU and I'm coming to a squad and I look at Sabrina, there's Stewie, there's jj, I know, like, my usage is probably not going to be that high. You know, there's only one ball to go around. And when you look at those people on the roster, I think they understand that in terms of, like, wanting to win, it's different than Vegas in that way of like, system wise, they want have their floor spacing. They want to be able to plug a different person into that. You sometimes Stewie's coming off the horns and then you're like, wait, what do we do? We know what to do when a point guard's coming off a horn. So now Stewie's in it and Stewie's the ball handler. Like, I remember that when Jordan Canada would have to switch under her when I was on LA and it was like, we're switching horns, three players switching, but Stewie's the ball head. Like, it's almost like you're like, wait, wait, wait. What do we do?
- [44:16]
B
Like, just a glitch mentally. Yes.
- [44:18]
D
Yeah, this is different. And then Stewie was able to go buy Jordan Canada. Like, this is Brianna Stewart going by one of the best, like two time first team WNBA defensive players in the league. But she's got the size and the quickness and the ball handling to do it. So I think satu. It's figuring out success for one for New York. I think we always have to ask the question of health, which is so unfortunate that Sabrina has gone down. Because when this is a healthy team, I think it's finals or bust to me. Because if you have this roster and you look across, I don't know that you have to win a title. Because getting there is really like, winning an actual championship is really tough. But getting to the finals, you give yourself a shot. You're in a series like you give it. It's a new season, right? But we're already being faced with the question of, like, can New York stay healthy for an entire season? And what does that look like? I think that's kind of where sawtooth comes into play of like, New York needing the depth to like, if they lose one of their big. Maybe they need a big four, because one of their big three inevitably always goes down. And then you're able to plug in, you still have a big three. You're not putting so much pressure on JJ or Stewie to have to be that. Because what Stewie and JJ do for New York is they give them that ability to put the three players but Sabrina, Stewie and JJ in Horn's actions. And then you're like, pick your poison. You're gonna switch great. We're gonna take you down low. You're not gonna switch great. Sabrina will make the right choice. You switch. JJ's coming off of a flare. You went over it. You switch the flare. Stewie slipped to the basket and There's Marina Johannes in the corner and there's Benija Laney in the right corner. And you missed the shot.
- [45:53]
B
Great.
- [45:53]
D
But Nigel got the rebound. Like, you can't just take your pick.
- [45:57]
B
Stress, y'.
- [45:58]
D
All. Stress.
- [45:59]
B
Right.
- [45:59]
D
The team is so good and they're so fun to watch. And so I think depth is actually one of the most important things because their history with injuries, and I think that's where SATU can plug a lot of holes for them. But to Sabrina's point, also figuring out what to do with too many pieces can be a problem, too. So how to does DeMarco manage having this many good pieces around him? And we're going to see pretty quickly how he manages losing his all star starting point guard for a couple of weeks. That'll give us like, a taste, a glimpse into like, what. How deep can he get in his bag this early in the season?
- [46:32]
B
Yeah, we'll see. I mean, not only will these new coaches be tested, rookies lay just laid out the plan. Be prepared on defense. Be alert and help defense. Okay. And get on those O boards. Okay. Now, so I want to move on to the. Actually, who do I want to go up to?
- [46:53]
D
Oh, me and Serena are ready to duke it out.
- [46:57]
B
I know. Let's go to Atlanta. Let's go to Atlanta because this is a.
- [47:01]
E
These.
- [47:01]
B
These next two are. Are questionable. Atlanta was a title contender last year and they've added some pieces, a very big piece, and especially in Angel Reese. And I think that this is. We saw this team get close and we saw them build an identity. We saw them have one of the best offenses in the WNBA last year, and we're already seeing in the preseason things are looking pretty good when you got Reinhardt and Alicia Gray on the outside of Angel Reese on the interior. So let's think about Atlanta. Sabrina, what are your thoughts? Where are you guys? Where are you at with Atlanta coming in after what they did last year and moving forward, pushing through to a title contention spot?
- [47:51]
E
Yeah, I think Atlanta pretty well figured out the regular season last year. You know, they had a system that high efficiency. You know, they rebound the ball well. They don't turn the ball over much. Like just do a lot of little things that are going to let you win games during the regular season. And I think they found during the playoffs, you know, they lost in the first round to Indiana. They weren't quite tough enough. And you bring in Angel Reese, who admittedly has not played in the playoffs yet, but her identity as a player just exudes a lot of toughness, and I think that just helps change the vibe of the team, the energy of the team, because I don't think they needed to overcorrect. Right. Yeah, it sucks to lose in the first round, but you were still tied for the second most WINS in the WNBA last year. You won 30 games. You're bringing back Ryan Howard in her prime, Ali Shagrae in her prime, Bree Jones. And, like, I just think there's so much talent on this team already, and I love the continuity. I love that they have the same coach. They know exactly what they're running. And, yeah, bringing Angel Reese is a big change, but I don't think it materially changes how they want to play. So I like that they have a pattern of success that they can, like, fall back on in the regular season and that they can just figure out, like, okay, we can be a little bit more intentional about thinking about what matchups are going to look like in the playoffs. And, you know, their rotation got pretty small towards the end of the season, so, like, maybe figuring out who we can trust down the stretch. Like, I think Karl can experiment a little bit more during the regular season knowing that, like, okay, we have a baseline for what success looks like for this team now. We can be a little bit more, like I said, intentional about how to figure this out in the postseason.
- [49:21]
B
Agreed. Agreed. Leigh, you know that Atlanta was right on the cusp and. And everything that they did during the regular season felt as if they had been doing it for years. Felt as if this has just been who they are. Any chances that this could be enough to be able to beat teams like the Aces and New York, who also feel like this is who they've been and they have actually had that Runway and that longevity be proven. Has Atlanta proven enough for you to be able to see them, you know, getting past those type of teams?
- [49:58]
D
Oh, yeah. I kind of compare them. I like the New York comparison to, like, they need a Benija Laney. They need, like, a Kayla Thornton. You can't win without that enforcer. That person who's just, like, nasty and gritty and tough and is gonna find a way to get it done. You need that. And that person is like, whenever someone's getting punked on the court, like, you know, like, your squad's never gonna get punked because that person was on the team. Like, that was me on the squad's like, no, we gonna fight before one of us gets, like, thrown on the floor. Like, I don what we got to do.
- [50:27]
B
Right?
- [50:28]
D
So you need that kind of banana of that person. And I do think that's where getting that angel Reese because like Alisha will get into it. Ryan's like, you know, Ryan just be. They're really nice playing at her pace. Yeah. Like, Bree Jones is so sweet. I love her. Like. But Jordan's like tough. But like they didn't have that. Just like, no. We are going to fight before we lose. Like you need that. Like hell to the no. And so you look at Indiana, what Odyssey did for them last year. We'll get into Indiana. But that difference of that kind of person who's just like, we might just have to squabble. And you know what? We might have to take the fine because we're gonna. We're not gonna leave this court.
- [51:08]
B
Guess what? And we can afford it too.
- [51:10]
D
That's such a right. Did the fines go up too?
- [51:12]
E
I assume the fines have gone up. I'm very interested to see what it looks like now.
- [51:15]
D
Yeah, I need the fines to stay lower. That should be like some form of reparations for our league.
- [51:21]
B
Yes, yes, Agreed on that. That's hilarious.
- [51:25]
D
Terry Jackson call in so just at least one season.
- [51:29]
B
Yeah.
- [51:30]
D
But my big question for Atlanta is do they have the point guards who can lead a team to win a championship? That's my like number one question. When I look at Jordan Cannon. Right. Two time champion. We know she did it with Seattle twice behind Sue Bird was they had one of the best benches in the league and that's why they were so good. They had so much depth. Two time all defensive, first WNBA team. I mean her motor is insane. She plays both sides of the ball, takes pretty good care of the basketball. But for me it's maybe timely decisions. It's like her ability. Can she lead a team to a title? And that's a question I think we're seeing like we're asking the question a lot this season of like, can players step into new roles? And I think this is one. Some are stepping into starting roles for the first time. And my question is, can Jordan Canada step into this starting role on a championship winning team?
- [52:23]
B
Right.
- [52:23]
D
Can she be poised? Right. Cause she's done it as a backup and she's been phenomenal. But it's different to do it as a backup, to do it as like the main person who has to stay poised, who has to have the decision making, who has to huddle the group, who has to manage the referees. The one of your player Ali Shagray getting frustrated because she's not getting her foul calls. You've got to manage time, score high pressure situations. You've got to know when it's your time to shoot the ball or take that three or when it's your time to get the ball where it needs to go. Just all of these things are like they're a next level jump and I think that's an opportunity for Jordan in her growth and her career. Like can she potentially become a three time WNBA champion twice under one of the greatest to ever do it and then once where she gets the chance to finally show she has that ability to jump to the next level and
- [53:09]
B
she's gotta be a veteran as well. To Tahina pow pow. And be that person that's getting the next generation on board as well. Yeah, I like this idea as a way to transition to Dallas because Dallas is a up and coming type of team, but they have veterans as well that we. I think the questions are there of will you be enough? Will you have enough to be able to be in that contentious space? And Sabrina, all the focus of course is, you know, Paige backers. We know last year didn't work out the way that it was supposed to, but I don't think anyone had expectations for last year to work out that way. Right. Like, I don't think anyone was looking at Dallas like you need to win now. This was very much, interestingly enough, the same situation happened on the men's side. Cooper Flagg in Dallas and Paige Baker's in Dallas. Like it was just supposed to be y' all do yalls thing get rookie of the year and then we'll see what happens, you know, a year from now. So it's a year from now. They did not move on Farike Ogubuwale and and we're seeing that pairing get back up on the floor together and folks are excited about that. You add in Az Fudd, you add in bigs from championship teams. Right. Or championship contending teams. Is it enough? Sabrina, don't do that. You know, they were almost there.
- [54:28]
E
They were real close. Real close.
- [54:30]
B
Yeah, real close. Real close. Right? Is that gonna be enough for Dallas to be able to change their trajectory from cute to championship?
- [54:41]
E
I mean they have so much veteran talent in a way that they just did not last year. Like it is very important to have, you know, not even just like the ones who are going to start like Alicia Clark and Josh Shepard coming off the bench. In addition to what Atlanta Shepherd, Atlanta, sorry, Atlanta Smith is going to bring, you know, as both of them together.
- [54:56]
B
Both of them together. Atlanta Shepard, Atlanta Shepard Right.
- [55:00]
E
I love the addition of Odyssey Sims. You know, letting Paige play off the ball. Just a good veteran, has been deep in post season, still really wants to win. But I really think this comes down to, like we talked about, you know, everything in Vegas runs through Asia. Paige, like, I hate to read too much into preseason because it's not real basketball. She looks incredible. She looks absolutely incredible coming off of unrivaled. Coming off USA Basketball like, she is stronger. She looks just more comfortable doing everything she wants to do. And she already looked so comfortable last season. I think she just hasn't had probably a lot of years in her life where she hasn't been competing, you know, for post seasons or tournaments or championships and, like, to end that season and, like, still have to watch other people play basketball and, like, try to win something while you're just sitting there. Had to be very, very weird for her. I can't imagine that's gonna happen a lot more often for Paige records.
- [55:52]
B
I know she's like, this is weird. Let me get back to this winning thing. And I got somebody beside me that won with me before, and folks that have been in that winning category on other teams, we know how to do this. Let's. Let's get it going. I imagine that's gonna happen. Um, Lay, you know, thinking about when you look at this team, do you. What are your thoughts on what your boy Kurt has put together?
- [56:18]
D
Kurt, he did a good job. He's a great gm. Um, I mean, I just. What Paige has done without, like, as you were talking, Sabrina, I was, like, flashing back to that team last year and watching them, especially here at Gold of, like, I was so impressed with how poised Paige was. Like, I. I didn't know she. I knew she was good. But then, like, you never. Till you really get to see it. Like, she does not get sped up very often. Like, she's got that. Like, how does she already look? As poised as sue did in her prom as a rookie? Like, I'm like, she gets down.
- [56:51]
B
Diana Taurasi told us this. Diana Taurasi said that on this podcast, she thinks that Paige Becker's gonna be one of the best basketball players the WNBA has ever seen. And it's because she is mature beyond her years. And it's not maturity just who she is. It's the maturity on the floor. It feels like Paige has seen everything. Every coverage, every opportunity. Yeah, she's seen it all, and she's fine with it.
- [57:13]
D
Usually, like, the double team will bother you. The heads. You're like, oh, that's something to work on. I'm like, did she just handle the wow. Like, oh, they're switching. I'm like watching all the coverages and she just knows how to protect the ball. She's tall. I think her length helps her arms. She knows how to pass over. She knows how to be double teamed and escape out of a double team. She knows how to read the slip and like, if that was little bounce pass through it. Like, that part has just had me with my mouth, like, open. Like, oh, she's like a star in every right. Because that's that, like, idea I was saying earlier in the show of like, scorers who play the point guards versus point guards. Like, I'm like, oh, Paige is a point guard. Like, she, she's like the best of both. Like, she has all of the subird, like, poise and calmness and like, that I need to check out her zodiac because I'm like, is she an earth sign? Like, what does she have about her? She has that like, like groundedness that a good leader needs where everyone can look to you and you're just like, we're good. Like, you don't even always have to say something, but you just look to Diana like, I remember playing with D at USA Basketball and it's like, oh, we're going to win because we have Diana. And you just look at Diana, you're like, oh, yeah, we're good. I don't know. I don't know what's happening. The score doesn't matter. Like, you look to that person. And that's what Paige has. And having been around Diana and Sue and then seeing Paige, I'm like, oh, and she has it at such a young age. And then now the exciting part is she has pieces around her like, holy, oh my God. Like, she has bigs who can score at the rim, who know how to pass and playmake and screen, who know how to defend. She's got another shooter in az. She's got a leader in Alicia Clark who also can be that veteran that helps Paige not have to carry so much of the burden as a leader. I think that's the thing. Like we saw last year, she had to carry too much. And even with that, she was phenomenal. So, like, what does she look like when she doesn't carry all the leadership on her back? Has really get pieces to pass to can just pick teams apart with coverage is like, now we're thinking Dallas could. It's exciting. Like, you're not just kind of in surviving the mode Figuring the season out, you can be more proactive and like, how do we actually go out there and win some games and like, potentially be in this contender conversation, which is night and day from where they were last year. It's like, oh, I'm pumped.
- [59:22]
B
Beyond that amazing breakdown, it is important to note that Paige is a Libra. And I think that makes a lot of sense because I love a Libra. I love a Libra. They're very balanced. They're great communicators. Okay, let's keep it moving. Closing out with Indiana Fever. Last season there was a very we will survive. And I mean when we will survive, we will survive the apocalypse. These folks went through every injury you could possibly imagine, it feels like, and they just found a way to keep it going. Caitlyn went down, More players went down. It felt like there was more players on their bench in street clothes sometimes than there were actually in, you know, suited up. But Caitlin's back, and the question is now this team was this close to taking out the aces, right? Like, real close. Real close. Okay. And they've got their health, they've got their folks back. Are they ready to establish a version and identity of themselves that is in a contending form that's not injury related? Of course, health matters. We know that. As Laysha said, cover the mind all. Cover them all. But thinking about this, Lei, is this enough for them to get out of the underdog storyline and to come into the top dog storyline?
- [60:36]
D
Ooh, I want Sabrina to start with her because I don't want to take her take on. On defense. I want her to jump in on. On her initial.
- [60:43]
E
Was I mentioning to Alicia earlier, like, have the fever heard of perimeter defense? Do they know what it is?
- [60:49]
D
That's the big question mark. Oh, okay.
- [60:52]
B
Okay. All right.
- [60:53]
E
Raven Johnson, who I understand is coming off the bench.
- [60:56]
D
Yes, yes. So it's like Caitlin starts, okay, put Raven in. We need some defense, like this back and forth thing. But go ahead, Serena.
- [61:04]
E
No, it's like you. You normally, you see a team that, like, made the semifinals a year ago. You think, okay, we can add a couple pieces. We add Ty Harris, you know, we add Monique Billings, Shatori Walker, Kimber. Right. Like, we're just going to take a couple incremental pieces, but the team that made the semifinals is not the team that's coming back. Right. Like, they had such a dramatically different way of going about things because they had to. Right. Like, they couldn't be an offensive first team without Caitlin, without, you know, the shooting of Sophie Cunningham. Without Harry MacDonald, like, they couldn't do so many things. And, like, I. It's just so weird that, like, you come back and your identity is dramatically different already. And I'm not saying that it's worse. It's just so different. Like, they're going to be able to do so many more things offensively with Caitlin Clark. Like, that's just a fact. Right. Like, she's going to open up so many things. It was so hard for them to score for stretches against Las Vegas. And that's not going to be the case when you have all of this offensive firepower. But you also had Odyssey Sims and Bri Turner and, like, Shay Petty just gutting it out, like, defending for their lives in these games. Aerial powers. Right. Like, and it's just. It's a very different team. So I just find it so fascinating that you have this squad that, like, theoretically coming back from a semifinal run, but also, like, I don't really think it's the same identity at all. And how does Steph White keep all of the wonderful things that existed about that team with all of this? Let's be clear, very talented personnel, but very different personnel.
- [62:26]
B
Right, Right. I mean, Lexi Hull is about the defensive identity that I think about for the team that wasn't hurt. Excuse me? Yeah, the team that wasn't hurt that started the season and then after that. You're absolutely right. I'm looking at this roster and I'm like, hmm, there's gonna be a lot of pressure on the new faces, like Raven Johnson and Ty Harris. But.
- [62:45]
D
And we, like, we talk about the Dogs and teams who wanna win. The Benijahs, the Kayla Thorntons, the Clouds. The name keep going down the list. And so, like, it's Raven Johnson and Lexi hall in terms of. And one of them is a rookie who's playing behind so defensively. Everyone you named about last year's squad was just, like, tough, and they just found a way. It's like, doesn't always. You. You looked at that Indiana team on paper, you're like, how are they ne. How are they exactly in the finals right now?
- [63:11]
E
Like, overtime of game five? How is this happening?
- [63:14]
B
Right. Yes. How are we screaming at the end of game five? Like, we're. We're looking at Kelsey Mitchell's boat body breaking down. Like, make it through. Like, let's see what happens.
- [63:26]
D
And, like, Kelsey Mitchell's so tough and so talented offensively, but I don't think about her as that defensive dog stopper. Right. It's like that difference. It's a different category when you get to that next level. Player who's just like, I don't know, we gonna win. I'm gonna find a way because we're gonna get a stop.
- [63:42]
B
They, they were very much like zombies. Like, we're gonna make it through. Like, no matter what's available to us, body wise, we're gonna make it. And Aaliyah Boston fouled out in that game. I mean, there was. That game was insane. So there's a lot there for the Indiana Fever to build on. I like this group, though, of contenders. I like the fact that we've got some proven contenders and I like the fact that we've got some that have some new faces that could help them get to that point, that we're still having a little bit of question marks around, but it's all positive aspects. So this is really good. All right, folks, before we get out of here, we gotta dive into our mailbag, so stick around. Of course, the show goes long. When I come back.
- [64:23]
A
Hey, honey, it's mom. Did you know if we switch to Verizon, we can get four phones for $0, plus four lines for $25 a line? Call me back. Me again. That's just $100 a month for four lines on unlimited welcome plus four phones. No trade in needed. Call me. It's mom. America's best network. Verizon. That's the one we're talking about. I'll send you text.
- [64:44]
B
America's best network based on RootMetric's best
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D
overall mobile network performance.
- [64:47]
E
US second half 2025.
- [64:49]
B
Four new lines and unlimited welcome and autopay. See verizon.com for details.
- [64:53]
C
With no fees or minimums on checking accounts, it's no wonder the Capital One bank guy is so passionate about banking with Capital One. If he were here, he wouldn't just tell you about no fees or minimums. He'd also talk about how most Capital One cafes are open seven days a week to assist with your banking needs. Yep, even on weekends, it's pretty much all he talks about. In a good way. What's in your wallet? Terms apply. See capitalone.com bank capital1na member FDIC.
- [65:24]
B
Spring break isn't what it used to be. It's better this spring. Stay three nights and get a $50 Best Western gift card. Life's a trip. Make the most of it at best Western. Visit bestwestern.com for complete terms and conditions. Alrighty. So first, before we get officially into our real, real, real mail bag, I just want to shout out to I had some folks asking, did I leave the show? And I was like, this is. This is very sweet. I. I'm not there for like three, four shows. And they're like, is she gone forever? And I appreciate you, Leigh, like, you know, announcing that I was taking some rest. But I think it was Dana Tilson that said, are you leaving? No off season. I missed your takes and I thought that was very sweet. I am here and my takes are making the show run long. I hope you appreciate that, Dana. Alrighty, let's close it out with our last mailbag or a mailbag question that we got from our last round. Megan wrote in with a question about teams exercising a player's options. She said, I would love an explanation of what it means when a team exercises their option with a player. Now, I ain't gonna lie to you, Megan. I barely knew what this really meant last year. So completely fair question and how this all breaks down. Sabrina, explain this to me.
- [66:49]
E
Okay, so I think the most common occurrence of this happening is when a player is drafted and they sign a rookie contract. What that contract is is three years, and then the team has an option for the fourth. So basically the team can decide do we want to keep the player around for year four. And they have to make this decision to basically before their third season starts. So what you're seeing right now is a lot of players who were drafted in 2024, so they've played two years. Their teams are now deciding, okay, we're going to pick up your option and keep you around for year four of your contract. So, like, Cameron Brink just had her option picked up by the Los Angeles Sparks. Camila Cardoso had her option picked up by the Chicago Sky. Right. Some of them seem like very obvious decisions, like those two. Some of them are less obvious decisions, and a team could decline the option, and then, you know, the player becomes a free agent at the end of the season as opposed to sticking around with the. Their team.
- [67:35]
B
Yeah.
- [67:36]
E
So it's. Unfortunately, it is like a team option. Like, the player doesn't have a lot of agency here. Right. It's not a player option. It is a team option. So the team gets to decide whether they want to keep the player around or not. And that's. That's how I would characterize it.
- [67:49]
D
Explain where the matching comes into, though. Like when they match Shakira, Austin contract, Washington.
- [67:55]
E
Yeah. So once a player hits free agency, if they hit restricted free agency, which comes at the end of your rookie contract. So after those four years, you can sign a contract with another team, but your current team has the option to match the terms of that contract. So in this case, Shakira Austin signed three year deal with Toronto. Washington decided, no, we'd prefer to keep you. So we're just gonna sign you to that exact same contract. And now you're gonna be here in Washington for those three years unless they decide to do something else with her.
- [68:25]
B
It is important. This is why this was confusing for me, especially on the women's side, is because as Serena laid out, it sounds like a player's option would be. It's their. But this is the team making the decision to extend their rookie essentially into a normal, like, player on their roster. And the option for the team to match any offer that another, you know, another team may offer if the team, the player becomes a restricted free agent. So.
- [68:54]
D
So a player doesn't have an option until after getting off their rookie contract, potentially getting matched, and then they can finally have the option. That could be like seven years until a player can decide where they actually get to go or want to go.
- [69:06]
B
And quick question to close this out, Sabrina. I know there are team options and player options that can be then added past rookies into contracts. Is that a thing? I know that's on the, on the, on the NBA side. Is that a thing in the wnba?
- [69:21]
E
Essentially, like, what you have in the WNBA are like, protected and unprotected contracts. So, like, if. If you have an unprotected contract, then a team can just decide to cut you and then not pay out the rest of your, you know, deal. But I don't know that they're necessarily like team options and player options on veteran contracts as opposed to contracts.
- [69:39]
B
Okay, that's a difference. If you are a fan of both leagues and you're like, hold on, this is a thing I've heard on the men's side. What's going on over here? Great breakdown.
- [69:47]
E
To be fair, we don't have all the deals of the new CBA yet. So it's possible that this is in the new agreement, but as far as I know, not yet.
- [69:53]
D
We'll have them by All Star Break Indie.
- [69:55]
B
Yeah, right, Exactly. Still waiting on that. All right, y', all, that's gonna be it for today. Lay and I will be back on Thursday with more from the world of women's hoops. It's officially live, folks, so please go check out the new newest newsletter. Wow, that is a. That's a word jumble. I'm gonna start all of that over. I'm starting.
- [70:15]
E
Can you Say the name of the newsletter again. Cause I'm pretty sure at the start you said it's the new off season newsletter, but it's the no offseason newsletter.
- [70:22]
B
God. The new newest bloopers. Save these bloopers delivers. Until then. 3, 2, 1. Until then. Like I said at the top, the athletics newest newsletter. The it's called no off season, y'. All. I think I said at the top of the show, new off season. No, it's no off season. Even though new off season could be cute. We'll think about that.
- [70:44]
E
Anyways, we're the no offseason families, you know, Right?
- [70:47]
B
We're the no offseason family. Okay, that newsletter is live. Go sign up info is in the show notes. And please follow our show if you're watching on YouTube. Do your thing. Subscribe y'. All. Make sure you tell your friends and your fam to go check us out. And while you're at it, drop us a comment, a rating. Let us know. Hey, the show is really long. When Xena comes back. Do you like that? Are you okay with that? I hope that you are. I'm happy to be back, y'.
- [71:12]
A
All.
- [71:12]
B
I promise I'll be better on our next one. I just got too excited, you know, Got lay. Sabrina. We're talking WNBA this season is here, y'. All. That's why I'm excited. So on behalf of the Athletic and Lazia Clarendon and Sabrina Merchant, I'm Zena Keda thanking you for listening and we'll see you time. Next no off season is hosted by Zena Kaeda with Chantelle Jennings, Sabrina Merchant, Blasia Clarendon and Annie Costable. It's produced by Tanika Burrell. Our executive producer is Andrea B. Scott. Monica Compton is our video editor. Our theme music is by Marcus Bagala. Shannon Ryan is managing editor of women's basketball at the Athletic. Be sure to like and subscribe. We drop new episodes every Tuesday, Thursday and Friday.
- [71:52]
C
With no fees or minimums on checking accounts, it's no wonder the Capital One bank guy is so passionate about banking. With Capital One, if he were here, he wouldn't just tell you about no fees or minimums. He'd also talk about how most Capital One cafes are open seven days a week to assist with your banking needs. Yep, even on weekends, it's pretty much all he talks about. In a good way. What's in your wallet? Terms apply. See capitalone.combank, capital One NA Member, FDIC,
- [72:23]
A
shipping, billing, admin, payroll, marketing. You're managing all the things so why waste time sending important documents the old fashioned way? Mail and ship when you want how you want with stamps.com print postage on demand 24. 7 and schedule pickups from your office or home. Save up to 90% with automated rate shopping. That's why over 1 million small businesses trust stamps.com go to stamps.com and use code podcast to try stamps.com risk free for 60 days. Hey honey, it's mom. Did you know if we switch to Verizon we can get four phones for $0 plus four lines for $25 only line call me back me again that's just a hundred dollars a month for four lines on unlimited welcome plus four phones no trade in needed. Call me it's mom. America's best network Verizon. That's the one we're talking about.
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B
I'll send you text America's best network based on root metrics Best overall Mobile Network Performance US 2nd half 20254 new
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D
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B
See verizon.com for details.