← No Offseason: The Athletic Women's Basketball Show
No Offseason: The Athletic Women's Basketball Show
WNBA Draft lottery reaction and major conference previews
00:44:18
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- [00:01]
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- [01:44]
Zena Kaeda
There to watch them.
- [01:44]
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- [02:52]
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- [04:58]
Zena Kaeda
I'm Zena Kaeda and this is the Athletic Women's Basketball show presented by Michelob Ultra. Welcome back to the Athletic Women's Basketball show presented by Michelob Ultra. Or if you're joining us for the first time, welcome in. We are very happy to have you. Make sure that you hit that subscribe button. Wherever you get your podcast. Want to do some quick housekeeping? Always, always encouraging you to be informed and subscribed so you don't miss any of this NCAA action. But today we're taking a quick, quick detour and going back to the wnba, because if you missed it this past weekend, the WNBA draft lottery happened, and the fate of some WNBA teams in 2024 has been written into the walls. And I think a lot of fan bases are excited. Joining me to talk about that, we got Sabrina Merchant, one of our writers covering WNBA and ncaa. She's gonna break it down for us, explain what's going on and what some teams have to look forward to. Sabrina, looks like you did your thing and you helped out by getting Lynn Dunn on the pod last week, and they ended up with the number one pick in the draft lottery. How excited do you think Lynn Dunn is right now?
- [06:29]
Sabrina Merchant
I mean, if you were watching the ESPN broadcast, you saw her basically fall back in her chair as I believe it was announced that the Sparks had the second pick, you know, meaning that Indiana had number one. And I was genuinely concerned for the woman that she was gonna fall all the way down.
- [06:43]
Zena Kaeda
But yes. And if you haven't seen it, it's all over the Internet. Definitely go check out. People have definitely already out of it. Appropriately, very appropriately. But yes, it did look like Lynn Dunn had won the lottery, quite literally in terms of money, but she won the draft lottery, got the number one pick, who is supposed to be Caitlin Clark. And what was interesting was once you saw the Twitterverse going and, you know, the fan bases and everyone talking, it was funny because Erica Wheeler was already talking to Caitlin Clark. There was a lot of chatter in between. But let's break down the rest. So number one went to Indiana. Number two went to the Sparks. As you just mention, Phoenix got number three, and then Seattle got number four. So, thinking Caitlin Clark goes to Indiana, thoughts on how the rest of the 2024 class breaks out? And remember, big star power in this class.
- [07:36]
Sabrina Merchant
It's actually really important that Indiana got number one, because I think this is the only team where we can be reasonably certain that Caitlin Clark is actually going to declare and come into the wnba. Because we've talked about this before, all of the current college seniors who started their careers in 20, 20, 21 have that additional Covid bonus year that they can use if they choose. And there's still a lot of talk if Caitlin decides to stay a fifth year at Iowa, if a lot of the players in this draft decide to stay a fifth year at their respective schools. But I think somebody like Caitlin, who is born and bred in Iowa, wanted to stay close to home for school, likes the idea of playing in the Midwest for Indiana. It doesn't have to go too far from home. I think we can be, like I said, reasonably certain that she will actually declare for the draft now that this is her destination. And I think that makes it easier for everybody else in the lottery and all the way down to pick number 12 to say, okay, well, we know Caitlin's number one. We don't have to worry about Indiana doing anything else now. We can pick from the best of the other options. And that was definitely the vibe in LA at their draft party of, okay, like, would we have wanted Caitlin's shirt? But even if we had gotten the number one pick, we don't know if she would have want to come to la. Like, that's a very big change for Caitlin Clark to come to Los Angeles. So I think very big. It's. It's good for the W, really, that Indiana won this because I think it makes it the most likely that Caitlin Clark will come to the league. And that's the biggest win for the WNBA that you get a player with that star power, like you said, Lynn, winning the lottery. Maybe it isn't immediate cash coming into her pocket, but it's definitely a big influx of potential revenue down the line for the Indiana Fever organization for sure.
- [09:13]
Zena Kaeda
And I think Indiana is one of the teams that has done a really great job of marketing their players. You think about Aaliyah, Boston and just getting in touch with the South Carolina fan base and then the marketing in that way. Talk to me a little bit about the other players that you're talking about that may have that bonus year where. Or they have that bonus year. So they might come in, they might not. I'm thinking of a particular Cameron Brink at Stanford. You think about Angel Reese. Where do you think they could potentially fall?
- [09:38]
Sabrina Merchant
Yeah, I think Paige and Cameron Brink are pretty much. You don't actually say Paige Baggers, now that I think about it, but I think Paige Baggers. Yeah. And Cameron Franco, she included, are the second and third best players in this draft. Pretty clearly, whether they go, you know, two, three or three, two. It's. We'll figure that out. Both of them could stay another year in college. Paige could actually stay an additional two years in college because she has that medical redshirt year from last season when she missed with torn acl. So still a lot of uncertainty, even once we get beyond Caitlin Clark. We're going to be thinking about who's available for this draft basically up until 48 hours right after the Final Four because that's how long these players have to declare. So if you think it's annoying just to have to wait for these players, imagine the jobs of these WMBA GMs to have to have all of these contingency plans in place up until, you know, six days before draft time. But as it stands right now, I think, you know, there's some, I don't know, something like very perfect about a Yukon guard like Paige Becker is going to Phoenix and replacing Diana Tarazi, you know, one after the other. There's something very poetic about Cameron Brink, a Stanford front court product joining Naco Gumaque in California. You know, born and raised on the west coast too. So I like both of those fits. I didn't actually project either of those in my mock draft that's currently live on the Athletic. I flipped the order because, you know, you look at the Sparks and the way that they've played since Chelsea Gray left in free agency in 2021, they just haven't had a good enough playmaker at the one, you know, who can score and create for others. And that's Paige Beckers, right? Like she doesn't technically play point guard at Connecticut. That job falls to Nika Mule right now. But she is the lead ball handler. She's the one who makes things happen in the half court. And I think LA is just dying for that player. And then like I said, she and Cam are two and three in whatever order you decide. So if Paige goes two, then that means Cam goes three. And Phoenix just needs pretty much any kind of talent because Diana has one year left on her contract already on the other side of 40. Basically everybody else of consequence on that roster is a free agent. So you just need the most talented player possible. And I think that's Cameron Brink. So that's how I would see picks two and three shaping out again if they choose to go pro. And then at 4, this is where the fun part happens in the draft. I know a lot of people have Camila Cardoso in that spot. I've personally been partial to Rekia Jackson just because I like people who get buckets. And that's what Rekia Jackson does.
- [11:57]
Zena Kaeda
She definitely does that, right?
- [11:59]
Sabrina Merchant
One player who actually cannot come back to college is Rekiya Jackson because she is in her fifth year though she's only played two games thus far for Tennessee. So I'm knocking on wood that this doesn't end up being a medical redshirt year for her and that she comes back soon. But, yeah, that's what I have at number four right now. Just because Seattle was one of the worst offenses I've ever seen in WNBA history this past year, and that's with the leading scorer in the league, Jewel Lloyd. Just all of the defensive attention that she had to face, being the only person who could create meaningful shots for herself. You put somebody like Rekia Jackson, who, again, whether she's playing an SEC opponent, whether she's playing a Team USA squad, an exhibition.
- [12:35]
Zena Kaeda
I was just gonna say she gets score against Team usa. Right, exactly. And that is a, I think, a burden reliever for Jewel Lloyd, as you mentioned, that continues to get all that attention and then also has to be the offense if she's not on. They're not as efficient and they're quite young as well. So I think that'll be interesting. I do think Jewel might need some size, allow her to open up some pick and roll options and things of that sort. But I like the way you just broke that down. But it's gonna. It's gonna be very interesting to see who declares because, you know, this whole conversation that Carolyn Peck actually addressed yesterday when she was giving her remarks about this whole, you know, stay in college, make some money, or go to the league and make some money. It's different types of money. But let's just make it clear here at the Athletic, the money is there regardless. Okay. Regardless if you graduate or if you don't. The money is there regardless, and you get a salary in the league. So we are on that same wavelength with Carolyn Peck and everyone else that has been talking about the difference between nil and making it to the W. Okay, well, I appreciate you breaking that down, Sabrina. Is there anyone that you're seeing right now potentially make a jump into the top five for draft picks?
- [13:57]
Sabrina Merchant
That's a good question. Hmm. Who do I think could be a riser? You know, I didn't actually even have her in my first round just because there's so much talent, you know, in the country right now. But every time I watch ucla, I am more impressed with what Charisma Osbourne is doing this season. And I don't know if top five is necessarily there, but that 6, 7, 8 range, I see no reason why she couldn't get to that point. She just. Her shot looks so much better than last year and she does a little bit of everything on the basketball court. So, yeah, that's somebody who I would expect to, you know, bump up a little bit, especially as the Bruins keep just absolutely crushing during this season.
- [14:37]
Zena Kaeda
Literally obliterating. And I think it's cool. Cause Charisma Osbourne was someone that could have went to the league, came back and is giving herself an opportunity to, you know, improve, prove her skills even more. And with a team that's super balanced and super talented. So she's in a really great position, I think, to be able to raise her stock. So that's cool. Well, thank you for entertaining me on that one. I know I kind of threw that one out there out of nowhere. But I do want to make sure we leave some time to talk conference play and obviously get back to the ncaa, because that is still hot and heavy and going. And we're going to do a little bit of predictions looking into the future for today's show. Sabrina, I'd love for you to stay on, but I also have Chantelle Jennings joining us. And we are going to be talking about, out of the teams we've seen so far, this is pre conference play, people. But pre conference play, who are the major contenders out of the major conferences in D1 women's basketball. And I want to, you know, go through, let's say, the top six conferences and get your ideas. I'm going to keep my comments short just so you guys can go back and forth. I absolutely love chantelle did the 25, our poll, the athletic poll this week. And I absolutely love that she said, hey, if you don't agree with me, Sabrina will be back next week. Okay? So don't you worry. But I loved your breakdown, too. Don't you worry, Chantelle. I just. I love all of our perspectives. So let's get this going. Let's start talking about who could be potential final four contenders from all of the conferences. Being that I'm on the west coast, Sabrina's on the west coast, and Chantel, you're also visiting the west coast. Let's start with the west coast with the pack 12. All right, Shantel, since you just joined, let's start off with you looking at the contenders that could potentially be in the Final Four. What are your thoughts?
- [16:32]
Chantel Jennings
Well, the Pac 12 is just so fun because I think, you know, in terms of looking at this conference, it's, you know, sort of we've talked a lot about the swan song, and this is, you know, the last year of this iteration of this conference. And I think it's going to kind of go out as it is been. There's going to be A lot of teams that have, like, seven losses, like, no one's going to run the table. These coaches know each other so well. And so it's just going to. They're going to cannibalize the conference in a way. And so you're going to have a ton of these teams that are just really prepared for the tournament because of what the conference does. And so I like the Pac 12 because I think out of any of these, like, top six conferences that we're talking about, there's probably the most Final Four contenders at this point. What we've seen thus far, and I think within that grouping, I put ucla, usc, Utah and Stanford. I don't think to this point, I've seen any other conference in the country that has four teams that I think could make it to the Final Four.
- [17:27]
Sabrina Merchant
I think you're right that this is the deepest conference in terms of contenders. And, I mean, we didn't even mention Colorado yet. And they were the ones who started off this season with a bang with, you know, their win over LSU on opening night. So I legitimately would not be surprised if any of those five teams made it to the Final Four. And I think I can get to maybe three on other conferences. So the depth of the Pac12 is definitely special this year.
- [17:48]
Zena Kaeda
I want to ask you guys with regards to adding Utah in that mix. Of course, Alyssa Peeley is a force to be reckoned with, but one of the things that I'm curious about is the ability to have that go through teams that are stacked, right? Alyssa Peeley is the focal point of that Utah team. Can you make it through a tournament when Alyssa Peeley is your number one option offensively, defensively? All of the above. If she goes out in foul trouble, you know, I don't know if the seasoned stack teams will not be able to take advantage of that for, you know, with Utah not having her in.
- [18:33]
Chantel Jennings
I think that's a really fair question. That's a really interesting question, too, because, you know, you kind of look across other teams, and I'm thinking of, like, a UConn right now that has really shortened its bench of late. And you can kind of point to teams where, you know, Yukon, despite whatever problems they have, you sort of, at this point believe that maybe they'll pull it together and make a Final Four run, even if they're only running six deep and two of those players are freshmen. But, like, if they don't have Paige, is that the same story? If they don't have Aaliyah, is that the same Story. You know, Paige is, like, playing the four this weekend, which is an interesting conundrum for the Huskies. But I think with Alyssa, and, you know, Sabrina loves the way Lynn Roberts draws up offensive basketball. There's just layups or three pointers, and there's nothing in between. It's a very unique offensive standpoint. But I think what makes, like, Alyssa is just a tough guard, and if she gets into foul trouble, that is one thing. But they're just like Don Staley said it really well on Sunday, like, once she gets into your body, it's over. Like it's a bucket. You know, she can step back and take a three, or she has this sort of, you know, physicality and finesse combination that we really haven't seen very much at the women's college game. Her footwork is just beautiful. She can get to the basket. She can move through people. And so outside of getting her into foul trouble, you know, I. I don't really know. We'll have to see, I guess, what Pac12 teams do to slow her down and what they come up with. But, you know, they definitely have their focal point, which is hampered by the fact that they, like other teams, have lost starters to starters to injuries this season, and so. But Alyssa Peely seems to do just fine shouldering that offensive load for them.
- [20:18]
Zena Kaeda
Yeah, I was asked the question, you know, after seeing Utah versus South Carolina over the weekend, South Carolina having 21 turnovers, but yet still being able to do enough to cancel out the negative impact of those turnovers because they were so well balanced in comparison to, you know, a Utah that had Alyssa Pele with early foul trouble but still dropped 37 points or something crazy like that. 30 plus points and seeing, okay, this might be the weak point here, but we'll see what happens in conference play. I want to continue the conversation to the Big Ten to think about another team that has a focal point player.
- [20:56]
Chantel Jennings
Right. What team can you possibly be talking about? Xena?
- [20:58]
Zena Kaeda
Who could this potentially be? I have no idea. No, of course, there is a person called Caitlin Clark whose entire offense, it seems like runs on her. So, Sabrina, let's talk about the Big Ten and thinking about the teams that could end up in the Final Four. Yeah, yeah. There's a team called Iowa. They've done it before. There's another few teams that we've also, you know, highlighted on the show, but I'd love to get your thoughts on the Big Ten.
- [21:22]
Sabrina Merchant
Yeah, I mean, we. We've talked a lot about Iowa, and I don't need to Belabor the point. When you have someone like Caitlin Clark, just a one woman wrecking crew. I, I don't think you can put a ceiling on what Iowa's cap. I also not necessarily sure you can put a floor on what Iowa is capable of because there's a lot riding on Caitlin Clark and if the other players just aren't able to hit shots that day, it can look, you know, not super pretty. But you know, we know what Clark can do and still haven't really seen a defense that can stop her. It's just a matter of whether the supporting players come to play that day. Like I said earlier, you know, I think most conferences have at best three potential Final Four contenders and that's pretty much the case here in the Big Ten. Ohio State would have to be the number two choice on this list. Not necessarily like a lesser choice in Iowa, but just a second team from the Big Ten that could make the Final Four just because they have so much depth and a system that really like they can just change the moment of a game so quickly with that press. You saw what they did to Indiana in last year's Big Ten tournament and the way they were able to create runs during last year's NCAA tournament, the way they made UConn look like no one had ever learned how to dribble the ball in last year's Sweet 16 game. I just think their unique style makes it very challenging to prepare for, especially on, you know, short rest, which happens a lot in the tournament. And you know, they have just super capable guards in J.C. shelton and Taylor theory. Maybe Madison Green comes back. Celeste Taylor's been such a good fit. Hard to discount what Ohio State has done this year. I mean, they only have one loss and that was to a team that we put on this potential Final Four list in usc. So that would be the, the main, I think Big Ten title contender that I'd have on my list and also a potential Final Four contender.
- [23:04]
Zena Kaeda
Chantel, thoughts on that?
- [23:06]
Chantel Jennings
Yeah, I think Sabrina's probably higher on Indiana than I've been on Indiana this season. I don't know if recent we, I guess we haven't talked about Indiana on the last four days. Sabrina. Not like we talk about all 300 teams every day. But I know that you know Hoosiers pretty well right now. I would say I'm leaning Almost more towards 2 than 3 for the big Ten simply because I haven't seen it from Indiana. I don't, I couldn't tell you like what their best win is at this point. And I think the other thing to note here is like, with Final Four runs, like there's an element of magic that we kind of can't account for. And Sabrina just hit on it in terms of so much of the tournament is also being able to either prepare for other teams on a short turnaround or being able to have something that's really unique that other teams haven't seen. So a team like Florida, Gulf coast or Utah that sort of plays this really unique system. I've talked a lot with coaches who sort of say, like, it's really tough. If you haven't seen Florida, Gulf coast or a team like that in the regular season, suddenly you've got, if you're talking about like the first to second round, you've got 24, 36 hours to prepare your team for something they've never seen. And so just because a team like Utah, we keep coming back to them, but just again, because their shot selection is so unique, you know, just because, you know, they might lose six games in Pac12 play doesn't mean that they're sort of less equipped to have a really deep Final Four run or a really deep March run than a team out of the Big Ten with two losses or three losses. And then you also kind of dive into other, you know, the familiarity between coaches and all of that. But I'd say in the Big Ten right now I'm leaning almost towards two teams with. When you just look at talent and taking out the sort of magic element, you know, if Mackenzie Holmes suddenly starts like triple double left and right, I don't know what that would look like. But if she does it, you know, like we wouldn't have picked Iowa necessarily at this point last year as, as the Final Four team despite knowing how good Caitlin was or even lsu. Right. Like, there's just sort of this level of, of catching March magic that you get.
- [25:15]
Zena Kaeda
I love that element of, and calling that out because there is a level of March magic to it. There is an elevated level of play or just bonding together and really getting excited about what you're capable of doing. And it's funny that you mentioned the Florida Gulf coast of the world, because I think about that when I think about Princeton and I think about Gonzaga and I think about the way that they play and they get like almost inspirational play right when they come up against these big time competitors and really show up, but also execute the hell out of their, their offenses and, and play really hard defense and that helps them be a bigger competitor than you would imagine them to Be. So it's a very good point. That's. That's not part of, like, the game plan, but it's a very particular element to help you get to a Final Four. Now let's take it to my neck of the woods, my hometown neck of the woods. And that is the acc. I love this conference. I absolutely adore how packed it is. I was one of the people that just talked to Corey Close on the pod. I have a former teammate whose sister Brooke Wykoff is the coach at fsu. And I was torn between that game of, like, who am I cheering for? Who am I going for? I was just happy that it was a good game between the two. But NC State has been fun. Of course, Sabrina, I know you have an affinity towards them and just the way that they've played, the way that they've shown up, their guard play, et cetera, North Carolina. I mean, I never, ever thought as a Yale grad I would be, you know, rooting for a former Princeton coach that just tore us up my entire college career. But killing it. Carolina's killing it as well. I'll give him that. That credit for sure. But I actually think, you know, you guys talked about the pack 12 being tough. I think the ACC is in the same boat. So, Chantel, starting off with you, thoughts on who could make it to the Final Four in the acc?
- [27:13]
Chantel Jennings
Well, before we get to that, I just really want to have Courtney Banghart on the pod so you and she can, like, walk down Ivy League memory lane. Do you think she still has, like, scouting reports on you?
- [27:26]
Zena Kaeda
Absolutely not. I was not a factor. She was like, no, we were just not a factor for them. Like, they were so good and so stacked and so athletic and just constantly just like, okay, like, you know, we're going to be playing the Ivy League this year, and that's not our goal. Our goal is the tournament. And they kept making it to the tournament, so, you know, shout out to them. But, yeah, I don't ever want to think about those Princeton, Yale games ever.
- [27:53]
Chantel Jennings
Sorry to bring back those bad memories.
- [27:55]
Zena Kaeda
It's okay. It's okay. I've gone through years of therapy. Let's continue.
- [27:59]
Chantel Jennings
So anyways, the acc, this is a conference that almost with the Final Four, I would have to think it's going to be more matchup driven than anything. I don't know necessarily look at this conference and say, like, oh, my gosh, there is. I really like NC State, but it's like, I don't look at them and say, like, there's this dominant team. Like I look at UCLA and I'm like, God, whoever they play like outside of, you know, like Stanford or South Carolina, like how are you going to compete with bets? Like, I think there's sort of this element of like if you come into the 6, 7 wrecking crew that sort of exists at these specific schools. You don't necessarily have that in the acc, but I think this is a really deep conference as well. I don't know how many of them are sort of prepared for a Final Four run, but I do like NC State. You know, Virginia Tech was there last year, Louisville. I'm sure Sabrina will talk all about Jeff Walls and sort of the magic. I mean we've, we've seen him sort of put together Final Four runs with less than what he has on his roster now potentially. Notre Dame probably depends on whether or not Olivia Miles makes a return this season and Kylie Watson if she can sort of secure the middle a bit better for them. And I was really impressed with Florida State over the weekend. You know, they, they lost, but I think they have, you know, I'm a really, especially in non conference play, I'm a really big believer in good losses and I think Florida State has a few of those on their schedule at this point that you know, if we're sitting here in April and they've made a run because Tenia lots and has sort of done something incredible in March, you look back at these games and you say, well, those were learning moments for this team. And so if I had to bet on a conference that has more Final Four contenders in it, I would say the Pac 12 just because I think those are teams that to me feel more Final four ready or sort of prepared for that run than the acc. But I do think there are several teams out of the ACC that if they catch more of that magic, perhaps it, you know, it falls in their favor for sure.
- [30:00]
Zena Kaeda
And I, before I get to you, Sabrina, I do want to say I agree with you in the sense, I think that you make a great point of like the difference between having teams that solidly off of their talent and their ability to score at ease, defend hard, you know, all of the above. The PAC12 is more, I don't know, just has more, more teams within that list. But, but in the sense of trying to see which teams would make it out of the acc. I mean out of the ACC to the Final Four. I feel like that list of toss up is longer. That's what I mean by that. But you make a great point in that there aren't any heavy hitters. I mean, you look at that Louisville, Kentucky game over the weekend and you know, being up one point on Kentucky at half, they were able to pull it out. But, you know, that level of play isn't quite what you would see out of the PAC12 kind of dominant powerhouses that we've been talking about. However, there's been a lot of close games. Now, Sabrina, thoughts on the acc?
- [30:59]
Sabrina Merchant
I think you guys kind of hit the nail on the head there where the ACC feels like it has a lot more sweet 16 types, but I don't know how many of those are going to make their way all the way to the Final Four. Like, I wouldn't be surprised if this was the conference that was best represented in the second weekend and then was completely absent by the time we get to Cleveland. But it is kind of hard to distinguish. We did mention NC State. I thought Xena kind of hinted at it when she said this conference was packed. Um, this is the team to watch. Uh, Zoe Brooks had a triple double this weekend, stepping in for Sinai Rivers in the starting lineup. And to me, when I look at teams that can make a deep run in March, I am naturally biased towards really good guard play. I think if you have a guard who can control the game, dictate the tempo, dictate the flow, it's just easier for them to make an impact in this setting than it is for a big. And even, even with LSU winning last year, I don't think that happens without Alexis Morris just having an incredible run through all of March and April. So I look at a team like NC State that has Saniyah Rivers, it has Zoe Brooks, that has Isaiah James, and that's what gives me hope for them to make it through, you know, a couple weekends in March. Even someone that Chantel didn't mention yet. Miami, who's still undefeated, they've got Cheyenne Day Wilson, pretty good veteran point guard, who's running the show for them right now. Virginia Tech, obviously, with Georgia Amore. That's kind of why I'm less excited about Louisville, just because I don't know who is running the show all the time there. But again, never, never bet against Jeff Waltz, especially to get to the Elite Eight. And that's why Florida State, like Chantel said, with all their good losses, you can never really count them out because t'ni Latson is always a force, can always call her number. And that's what makes me excited about watching these teams, however far they end up getting.
- [32:43]
Chantel Jennings
In March, I Think you bring up an interesting point, though, Sabrina. I think I'm with you. Generally, that guard play, that poised tempo, dictating floor general, that is sort of traditionally who we look toward for that March moment. But this year, given the dominant six, seven players that we have dispersed across the country, like if South Carolina, Stanford and UCLA all end up in different regions, you know, and each of those players, you have a Kiki Erioff and you have an Ashlyn Watkins and a Chloe Kits, you know, UCLA just like sort of group rebounds around Lauren really well. Like, how do you get through one of those teams into the Final Four without that dominant, like, no matter how good your point guard is, sort of how. How do you get by them? In a way, I sort of think, and I almost wonder if this year feels a little bit different when we look at those brackets.
- [33:42]
Sabrina Merchant
I mean, a lot of it is just who's hitting shots on any given day, right? Like what we saw with LSU in the title game, right. They hit an obscene number of threes and that's why we've been talking about them for the last seven months, because they went on a heater at the very perfect time. Obviously, there's complementary skills to all of it. It's just, you know, you look at a team like Utah and Alyssa Peeley doesn't run the offense, right? So a team could theoretically scheme to just get the ball out of her hands because like Don Staley said, once she gets into your chest, it's over. But when you're running the offense, it's so much harder to deny. Right. Like Caitlin Clark, the ball just doesn't come out of her hands. Right.
- [34:13]
Zena Kaeda
I absolutely think that you need playmakers and whether they're in your starting lineup or not. I mean, you just mentioned that LSU, Jasmine Carson, 22 points off the bench, she had only scored in one game before the LSU, like, you know, the game of her life, as she liked to say. So, yeah, it is hard to be able to make it through those, like, powerhouse, stacked, rounded out teams unless you have that one guard, that or that one post or whomever, that one player that comes up and just like, shows up and has the game of their lives. Tanai Latson is someone I feel like could have a game of her life almost every game, but out of Florida State. But yeah, it'll be interesting to see what, you know, what each roster boasts in terms of people that just show up. Let's take it down to people that show up as a team and have been doing that throughout this year. And we've been able to see it. The sec, of course, South Carolina, We've been talking about them on this pod. We've been talking about this all over the athletic. They, I think are the most well rounded team and the most obvious to come to the Final Four. And then also obviously lsu. Is there anyone else in that Southeastern Conference that you guys are thinking about to come out to go to the Final Four?
- [35:31]
Chantel Jennings
I don't know. I think, you know, we got to say something sort of wild on the pod every now and then. This can be what, Tanika? Like clips we put out there for the engagement. Okay. How crazy am I, Sabrina, to say if Arkansas goes absolutely bananas from the three point line? I mean, this is a team that takes 31 threes a game. Like, this is a coach who's been to the Final Four before. He knows how to get a team there. They've got a fantastic score in Talia Scott, sort of similar to an Iowa where it's like, if they're just burning you from beyond the arc, how do you keep up with them? I mean, obviously the other end would be a question, but like, you know, if they suddenly start hitting and I'm not saying this is probable, Xena. I'm just saying it's possible if they hit, you know, 50%, like, that's a ton of points.
- [36:23]
Zena Kaeda
It really is. I find this so interesting that you're saying this the day after they helped UAPB make history as a predominantly black institution, or HBCU beat them 74. 70.
- [36:39]
Chantel Jennings
But I'm not saying it. So beat Florida, guys.
- [36:42]
Zena Kaeda
I'm not saying it's true. I just, it was just funny. It was like when you said Arkansas, I was like, wait, did I just read the UAPB made history?
- [36:50]
Chantel Jennings
I mean, when we're talking about teams with high ceilings and low floors, like, let's put Arkansas in that box as well. Like, yeah, 100%. But if we're gonna, like, I don't know, if you got 10 bucks, you want to put your money somewhere and be like, what the hell?
- [37:04]
Zena Kaeda
Like, why not 50%?
- [37:06]
Chantel Jennings
I mean, maybe I look like a huge dummy right now, but like, if we've got to pick someone outside of like, the absolutely normal sane conversation to make a Final Four run, why not?
- [37:19]
Sabrina Merchant
What's funny is I was 100% sure you were going to say Texas A and M. And then Arkansas came out and it was just, what, should we.
- [37:26]
Chantel Jennings
Delete this from the pod? Am I just, like, losing all of my credibility at this point?
- [37:30]
Zena Kaeda
I wouldn't say that they did beat a very good. And at that, at the time. Ranked. Still ranked, but, you know, Florida State. Right. So they, they have the ability to play with the big dogs, and they've just had some interesting. They've had an interesting season so far.
- [37:47]
Chantel Jennings
Yeah. And I think that's where it's like, again, this is not a team that I like. I am not going to put them on my bracket. If they, if they get into the tournament, like, you know, again, we could see some low lows from the Razorbacks, but, like, if they get into the tournament, if they're, like, hitting like crazy and this is. Again, there's a lot of ifs. The ball has to, you know, bounce their way in several instances. I'm just couching this really hard at this point because I'm looking.
- [38:16]
Zena Kaeda
No, no, no. I want to say this to support this, and then we got to move on, but to support this. When Arkansas played Louisiana Tech, that game was 100 points to 60. Arkansas did hit 60% from three. So it's not impossible. Okay, it's not impossible.
- [38:35]
Chantel Jennings
So, you know, saying there's a chance.
- [38:37]
Zena Kaeda
If you got your $10, you might have something. You just. You never know. There might be something.
- [38:41]
Chantel Jennings
I don't bet, I mean, beyond, like, the ethical part, but, like, I don't bet on anything. But, like, this is why. This is why. Because I would just. I. I don't go to casinos because I'd be like, I'd pick the thing that everyone's like, no, don't do that. Don't do that.
- [38:55]
Zena Kaeda
I don't think you're completely out of it. I mean, excuse me. It wasn't 60%, it was 50%. So exactly what you're saying, they shot 14 of 28 from three. I'm just saying $10 ain't terrible. You know, you might be saving it for something else, but save it for Arkansas. There you go, Chantel. We believe in you, girl.
- [39:11]
Chantel Jennings
Save it for Arkansas. Put it on a shirt.
- [39:16]
Zena Kaeda
All right, let's move on to the Big 12, because this one's a fun one. We just mentioned, you know, Texas A and M, but let's talk about their Texas counterpart that's in the Big 12. There's Texas, there's Baylor, then there's some others within the Big 12. Sabrina, going back to you, who do you think can make it out?
- [39:33]
Sabrina Merchant
We still have six undefeated teams in the Big 12. It's pretty exciting. Six undefeated teams.
- [39:38]
Zena Kaeda
Crazy.
- [39:39]
Sabrina Merchant
West Virginia had one of my favorite games this season when they beat Penn.
- [39:41]
Zena Kaeda
State last week made us sound good because we had just given them a spotlight.
- [39:44]
Sabrina Merchant
So we had just given him a spotlight. I can't wait till TCU plays somebody real, you know, really excited to see when Sedona Prince gets to play someone who can actually look her eye to eye, which has not happened yet against non conference schedule. No, I think it's still Texas and Baylor though. As much as I'm enjoying the unbeaten streaks for these teams who have, you know, padded the November slate, I've been very excited what we saw out of Texas and Baylor. Every game I watch Utah play, I'm more impressed that Baylor managed to beat that team even if Alyssa Peeley wasn't foul trouble in the first half. And then Texas, I mean, I mean, it's just so painful to try to score against that defense. Like, I'm about as high on Paige Beckers as anyone I can think of in the country. And Rory Harmon just took her out of the game when UConn played Texas a couple weeks back. So I don't think there's anybody beyond those two. But those are two very good choices.
- [40:36]
Zena Kaeda
And they did it early, too. That was what was so impressive about that Texas defense, is that they shut them down and made it hard for her early. So they were just kind of scrambling towards the end of the game to still try and find opportunities. I do give, you know, UConn's defense some credit for that, but shout out to Texas. Texas defense. And that's one thing too, that, you know, we've been talking about having that ma. That March Magic. One thing that can circumvent all of that and really push you and propel you forward is even if you don't have that March magic, even if you don't have that particular player that's going to go off or, you know, whatever points or, you know, if you have a team that's going to go 50% from 3 or not. Defense is like the thing that really saves you is just being able to shut down the right players to know your scouting report and making sure that the right players don't go off. Chantel, thoughts on the Big 12?
- [41:25]
Chantel Jennings
No, I. I'm pretty much in agreement with Sabrina and I refuse to say anything crazy from here on out. I will not be picking another team out of the Big 12.
- [41:34]
Zena Kaeda
I support.
- [41:34]
Chantel Jennings
I will stand with Sabrina and say, yep, that's true.
- [41:38]
Sabrina Merchant
I did not realize that Talia Scott was averaging 25 points a game. That's. That's impressive. We gotta keep mentioning her name among the Freshman class of guards that's just, you know, wrecking this season.
- [41:49]
Zena Kaeda
Yeah. Baller, like. Yeah, she's, she's, she's like playing like, like playground basketball. Like, just like, you know, she's tough. She goes to the basket hard. Do you know how tall she is?
- [42:05]
Sabrina Merchant
I think she's five, nine.
- [42:07]
Chantel Jennings
She's not huge.
- [42:08]
Zena Kaeda
Yeah, good for her. All right, let's keep it moving. Last but not least, going to the Big East. Thoughts on the Big East, Chantel, starting with you.
- [42:19]
Chantel Jennings
You know, I think this is. Despite the short bench, despite the injury issues, probably UCNNs to lose. And in terms of teams coming out of this conference to the Final Four, I'd probably still say this is a one team conference. I think Marquette has kind of this nice three headed scoring load with hair Carlin and King right now, but I just don't. Yeah. And listen, I also think that for UConn to make the Final Four when we're talking about that magic, like it's going to take a little bit of that too. Like they're going to have to get really big contributions from KK Arnold and Ashlyn Shade. I think in addition to Paige, Becker's Nika Mule is going to have to figure out the turnovers and sort of look more like herself last season than this season. But it's a long, it's a long season. It's only mid December, early December at this point. There's a lot of time to sort of turn things around. But we saw Ginoriemma kind of shorten his bench even more this weekend. And they're running with six basically at this point. And so they are also, you know, kind of skating on thin ice a little bit here in terms of just how fresh their legs will be. But going through the Big East Conference, you know, perhaps there will be more of an opportunity against some of those teams to, to get a little more rest for Paige and company. But I, I think this is probably a one conference or one team conference.
- [43:51]
Zena Kaeda
Sabrina?
- [43:52]
Sabrina Merchant
Yeah, I'm not even sure it's a one team conference. I'm just not super thrilled with what Ugon has depth wise. I mean, I worry about their bigs more than anything. Didn't Gino say that Ayanna Patterson could be out for the rest of the season?
- [44:03]
Chantel Jennings
And yeah, I was gonna say. Did you use the word, did you pluralize bigs? Because I think it's right now, it's singular. It's just, I worry about their biggest.
- [44:10]
Sabrina Merchant
Just Aaliyah Edwards.
- [44:11]
Chantel Jennings
I just worry about Aaliyah Edwards.
- [44:13]
Sabrina Merchant
Tremendous, tremendous durability from Aaliyah Edwards, but nothing else around her. It seems like Dino's already lost faith in Ice Brady. You know, coming off of that injury last year, I wish I had more faith in Yukon, but I don't. And we've already talked about a lot of really good teams.
- [44:29]
Zena Kaeda
You know, I want to ask you guys this question because when I think about Yukon and their ability to, you know, try and rally around these players that they have remaining that aren't injured and, but also are talented players, I don't know any NCAA team in recent history that has been able to make that deep run with that little of players. But we did just come off a WNBA season where a WNBA team was able to do that. Right. So it's not impossible in all levels of the sport. But I was curious if you guys could think of any teams that you guys remember being shorthanded and still being able to make a significant run.
- [45:06]
Sabrina Merchant
I think about Notre Dame in 2018, where they had three to four players out on season ending injuries. Basically had their five starters and I want to say one player off the bench when they won that title. But even then, you think about all of the magic that went into that run with obviously Arike hitting those two ridiculous shots to end the final four in the national title game. Tough pattern to replicate. And they had five first round draft picks, or not five first round, but five WNBA draft picks on that team, all of whom, you know, made the WNBA and are still in the league five years later. So it's not like they were lacking for talent and the players who were able to get on the floor. You obviously talk about that Aces team that just got it done. Yeah, if you had three Paige Beckers, maybe I'd feel better about UConn going forward. But they have the one potential number one traffic, not three of them facts.
- [45:54]
Zena Kaeda
That's very true. That's very true. Yeah, that. That ASUS team was stacked regardless. Okay. All right. Chantel, anyone come to mind for you?
- [46:01]
Chantel Jennings
No, I think the, you know, we've seen teams that like rely heavily, I would say on six, but I think UConn is kind of past the point of even saying rely heavily. Maybe the Big east changes our tunes in terms of like Kaden Samuels and Ice Brady getting more minutes and if they can extend to eight. But to be in early December and kind of cut your rotation to six feels pretty significant at this point.
- [46:26]
Zena Kaeda
All right. Well, it is very early, as we mentioned, and conference play hasn't even started yet. And I think a lot of these teams are about to be weeded out, exposed, solidified, concretized as whatever it is that they are, whether they're the wrecking houses, these big time power teams that are going to come through and make it hard for anyone that faces up against them or maybe some teams are smoking mirrors and they're actually a little bit more easily defeated than we anticipate and what their non conference schedule has shown. So very big, big January coming up for a lot of these teams where we're really going to be able to get to see what they look like going up against each other, going up against legitimate competition. I think about what you just mentioned, Sabrina, TCU, they get to play Baylor January 3rd. That's going to be a game where Sedona Prince is finally going to get what she needs to be able to prove that she can play in the league. And that sort of play is where, that's why conference play is so exciting. Very, very much looking forward that to that. But thank you guys. I appreciate you guys playing the game, predicting giving us some good takes. Chantelle, keep them coming, girl. Keep them coming. And keep wrapping up the $10. Put them in the back for us. You just, I, I actually, I appreciate that and I like when stats back it up. You never know. You never know.
- [47:51]
Chantel Jennings
We can save this clip. I'm either going to look like prophetic come march or like people are gonna be like, what? Fire her immediately.
- [47:59]
Sabrina Merchant
I would 100% wear a shirt that said save it for Arkansas.
- [48:04]
Chantel Jennings
The athletic women's basketball pod. $10. Save it for Arkansas.
- [48:09]
Zena Kaeda
Save it for Arkansas.
- [48:10]
Chantel Jennings
We gotta get Mike Neighbors on the podcast. He would be an excellent podcast guest.
- [48:16]
Zena Kaeda
Okay. All right, I'm with that. I know for anyone who wants to talk women's basketball to come join us on this show, but for today I am appreciative. Thank you, Chantel. Thank you, Sabrina for breaking it down, making some predictions. Guys, leave the comments. Who do you think may make it out to the Final four? Is there anyone that we missed that we're not thinking of? Definitely keep us posted and also make sure to subscribe. Don't miss us. We're going to be here all season long and we're going to keep you posted on what's going on in the WNBA off season. Shout out to the draft lottery. I know the Fever are very excited but now it's going to be very interesting to see what I was fan base and South Carolina's fan base looks like. Like trying to get along. Love that. All righty. That's all for today, folks. For the Athletic, I'm Zena Kada encouraging you to keep listening, keep learning and keep loving the game because that's the only way that we're going to continue to grow it. All right, folks, until next time.
- [49:15]
Sabrina Merchant
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Sabrina Merchant
Acast powers the world's best podcasts. Here's the show that we recommend.
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Zena Kaeda
Remember blowing into a video game cartridge.
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Sabrina Merchant
How about Saturday morning cartoons?
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Sabrina Merchant
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Zena Kaeda
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Zena Kaeda
Are we old?
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Chantel Jennings
Com.