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E (3:43)

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F (4:57)

For.

E (4:57)

The Athletic I'm Zena Kaeda and this is the Athletic Women's Basketball Show. Welcome to the Athletic Women's Basketball show where we are here to talk all things women's hoops. Whether you're a die hard fan that eats, sleeps and breathes the game or you're a casual fan that saw Isaiah James go around her back and are looking for more disrespect. Don't worry, you're in the right place. Make sure you subscribe to this pod, wherever you get your pods to stay up to date with us. Also, subscribe to the Athletic because there's some amazing content on there that you don't want to miss that gives you the coverage that you need. I'm joined today by Ben Pickman and Sabrina Merchant. And I know some of you guys like, wait, we're talking college. What's going on here? Well, that's because we got to merge the two worlds of the college space and the WNBA space. And who better to do that than Ben and Sabrina? And today we're having a conversation about draft. Of course, a lot of you guys have been seeing the WNBA teams making a lot of moves in this free agency space, but surprisingly, a lot of them moving draft picks, which has us thinking, what's going on with this 2025 draft? Where are scouts thinking? What are they thinking about some of these players? And luckily for us at the Athletic, Sabrina and Ben did their homework last year in preparation for this season of where players could end up in terms of where they can end up in the draft, how they could be perceived, et cetera. But it's been a long college season already and March hasn't even happened yet. There's been a lot of shifts and we're going to talk about some of those players, where they're at, where they're standing in that conversation and what we can look forward to in March. So, Ben, Sabrina, let's jump right on in. Of course I'm a little biased. I'm a big girl, so I want to talk about the bigs first. And the first one is a big coming out of usc. This is Kiki Iria Fenn. Now, she's averaging some great numbers, 18.2 points per game, 8 rebounds per game, almost 2 assists and shoot 50% from the field. You talk to a scout, that sounds like draft numbers, high draft numbers. She's one of the sole bigs really, in this conversation. But I'm curious, Sabrina, when you look at your draft board last year or coming into this season, you had Kiki at number two in the draft. Let's start off there. Where do you think she stands today and what about her play has influenced where she stands?

F (7:32)

It's interesting because if we had done this two days ago, I probably would have had Kiki a little bit lower on my board just based on who I thought was going to draft her, but you know, that's confluence of college w all these things coming together. The Chicago sky just made a trade to send the number three pick to the Washington Mystics in exchange for Ariel Atkins. Now the Chicago sky at number three probably not going to be taking another young big when they already have Angel Reese and Camilla Cardoso. But you look at the Washington Mystics and yeah, they have Aaliyah Edwards and Shakira Austin, but they're not really trying to make the playoffs this year, I don't think. So we're not as interested in making a coherent roster for the time being. So you can afford to take a longer term outlook and take a Kiki area fan even if you don't know how she's going to immediately fit in with your front court. So I think number three is probably the ceiling here for Kiki. You know, Olivia Miles has just kind of jumped her. We'll talk about her later. But I think she is the best domestic front court prospect in this class, you know. Well, we're not going to be talking about internationals today because this is more of a instability tournament focus here. But you know, you look at an offense where she is not really asked to create as much, you know, a lot of the burden falls to Juju Watkins plays are not necessarily being run for Kiki Yuri fan as often, but she's a great cutter, she's a great offensive rebounder, she makes points happen just with her effort and her energy and her insane athleticism. So I think you look at somebody who doesn't need a role carved out for her and is still able to be productive. Like that's the kind of player teams want to take a chance on. And you've seen her able to scale up, you know, in that game against Iowa State last year in the tournament. Right. She drops 40 in that second round when Cameron bring fouls out. So I think there's obviously not a lot of upside for Kiki because you know, she's only been a full time starter for two years. Still a lot left to explore. But you know that she can produce even if she's not your focal point on offense. And she's, you know, proven a lot in an excellent USC defense in terms of her ability to switch out onto the perimeter. And I wouldn't say she's like a five defensively but defending forwards and you know, getting out of the perimeter in a pinch, I think she's capable of doing all those things. So I like her a lot at that number three spot I would be surprised if Washington didn't take her just because of all of the Mystics draft picks in that top of the first round. But Ben, I guess you could sort of add on to that, I guess like where you think she makes sense in a WNBA context.

F (9:46)

Yeah, I mean, look, we're not talking about the international prospects here. We're not going to go at least in depth on them individually. We'll save that for a show closer to the WNBA draft. I'll say big picture though, like I would be surprised if she went number three. I think Dominique Malanga, the 19 year old French center could be a potential, potential franchise centerpiece and could be the best player in this draft overall. And so I would be pretty surprised if Washington didn't go with Malanga at number three.

F (10:14)

Well then Kiki at number four.

F (10:15)

Right, right. I mean, but I do think like with three, four or six, you have a number of different places she can land. And I think the case you made for Washington makes a lot of sense. You know, going back a year ago at this time, there was a lot, you know, Kiki was one of the big risers right. Throughout all of last season and became one of the, you know, biggest stars in women's college basketball. And when we talked to GMs heading into last year's WNBA draft, a lot of them were kind of curious about how she was going to look without Cameron Brink beside her. Of course, what ended up happening is she ends up transferring to USC and we end up seeing like, no, not how she performs at Stanford, but with another program where again, she is not the leading scorer, the leading playmaker. I do still think some of the questions that executives had last year still persist. And the big one for me is perimeter offense. Right. In this era in the wnba when you often see so many bigs stepping out on the perimeter and really like utilizing jumpers and spacing the floor, she does not or has not historically demonstrated that ability. Right. You look at her stats at USC this year I think she averages less than half a three pointer per game. Overall. She's, you know, last year I think she actually was a better jump shooter from the field than she is this year. I think last year she shot closer to 50%. This year she's around 32, 33% on jumpers. And even when she is unguarded, according to some, some data I was looking at from Synergy Sports, like she's just okay. Right. So that is definitely one of the questions I think people have on offense about how she's going to perform. Nevertheless, with all that being said, she has shown, you know, such a skill set and the energy and kind of what she brings to a team that like yeah, she's still going to be a first round pick and probably a middle to, if not higher first round pick. But you know, I do think she is definitely one of the players who last year or entering this year, even people are just penciled into number two. And I think that has certainly been one of the changes as we entered the last week of the college regular season.

E (12:15)

Yeah, her inability to space the floor has been something that has been a topic of mine as well. But I think that when you think about Kiki Iri fan story of just how much she's developed her game in such a short period of time, I think scouts probably get really excited about being able to work with her and thinking about some of the moldable players. You want a big that's already got footwork inside, that can be molded to be able to shoot outside, that feels as if that's Kiki's kind of essence as a player willing to learn, et cetera. I want to keep the conversation moving though and I want to start talking about school pairings. One of them I referenced in our open North Carolina State and particularly Saniya Rivers and Isaiah James. Now Sabrina, you only had Saniyah Rivers on your initial draft list to open up the NCAA season, but now, I mean Isaiah James has made a name for herself in the league. Not only I said in the league, clearly working too many jobs y'all in the association, just not only being able to be a prolific scorer, just being creative, also having some little bit picking up her defense I would say. But overall, particularly just being nose down to the basket type of score that can get there creatively and acrobatically. What made you now want to put her in this conversation and where would you put her in this very guard heavy class when it comes to a and then we can turn to Saniyah Rivers.

F (13:42)

Yeah, I think Isaiah James had such a nice finish to the season last year with NC State when they went on their run to, you know, get to the ACC title game and ultimately make the Final Four. But it wasn't, you know, a year long success story I would say like she wasn't dominating the game in the same way that she has this year where I think there's been one game all season where she hasn't scored in double digits. She's been just incredibly consistent. Like you mentioned, downhill attacker. The three point percentage has gone up a little bit to 33%. So, you know, there's. There's still hope there. Right. Like, I'm sure WNBA scouts would like it to be a little bit higher. But, you know, there's something to work with there. And I think just her ability to score from, like, whether she's creating, whether she's off the ball, you know, whether it's in transition, you know, she's often the recipient of those outlet passes from Sinai Rivers on the break. She just has a lot of different ways to get to the basket. And, you know, the more I talk to people about Isaiah James, it seems like she's sort of on that first round bubble now when, you know, I made a list of like 20 some prospects last year, I did not have her on it. I think she's. She's in the top 12, at least top 15, you know, and you think about the game that she just had against NC State, like Magic Johnson's tweeting about Isaiah James after that game. Like, Sparks are at number nine. James. Yeah. Against Notre Dame. Right. She. Sparks are picking at number nine. She makes a lot of sense in a Lynn Roberts offense, honestly. So there is some traction, I would say, for Isaiah James at the end of the first round, whether that's to la, whether that's somewhere else. But I do believe just her consistent scoring, like you said, she's a decent size for two guards. She can handle herself defensively. Like, that's not obviously her best skill, but she doesn't. She's not like a, like a traffic. Yeah, she's not picked on.

E (15:14)

Right. Exactly.

F (15:15)

Exactly.

E (15:15)

Exactly.

F (15:16)

So I think just, you know, all of the highlights, the, the little flair, I think, although it's part of it. Right. Like, you want somebody who is confident in themselves and able to perform in big games too.

F (15:24)

And.

F (15:24)

Right. We've seen that with Isaiah James time and again. When NC State is on national television in a big environment, she shows up. And I think that's going to resonate a lot with WNBA front offices.

E (15:33)

Now. Ziya James right now averaging 17.8 points, just under five rebounds, three assists. Like, as you mentioned, Sabrina Creator, just as much as she can score herself. I'm so happy that you brought up Lynn Roberts thinking of la, like, that's what I want to turn to you, Ben. When you think about someone that can create and particularly like rookies coming in. Yes. Last year, of course, we saw Caitlin Clark be a rookie coming in and create and be a focal point in an offense. I don't know if Isaiah James is going to be that for a WNBA team. But when you think about where she could be used coming off the bench, being able to keep an offense going, keep pace going, coming off the bench, what comes to mind for Isaiah James for you?

F (16:12)

I like the comparison here because you have someone who Isaiah James, what she's five'eight five'nine I want to say. And that is the same height as Kelsey Plum and you know, both left handed players as well. Right. Like those are two similarities and I know they're just two in a batch of many, a group of many.

F (16:29)

But James went to the dog last year.

F (16:32)

Oh, there you go. And Sabrina was there and saw him working out like that is the kind of mentor, mentee relationship. When you think about, you know, drafting a high potential rookie that you could definitely see, you know, L A investing in, you know, I think overall these NC State guards are so interesting because, you know, they're so dynamic and they're still slept on, I think because of just where they play. And if we remember back to last year's tournament as NC State kind of marched to the Final Four, like Saniyah Rivers was really one of the big risers. She was a threat that whole tournament, right. And there were so many stories and conversations about her. This, you know, former South Carolina recruit goes there, transfer to NC State again, this program that is very unheralded but has had a lot of success in recent years. She scored in double digits, if you remember, in all of those NCAA tournament games, except for in the semifinal against South Carolina where she struggled. And when she struggled, people kind of knew, like, it's not going to be, you know, NC State's night though, I guess against South Carolina last year, nobody had a good night, all things considered. But if we transition, you know, to Sinai Rivers, like she's to me one of the most fascinating prospects in this draft because last year so many WNB executives were so high on her, just physically, right. She has just the size of a pro prospect. She looks like a pro out on the floor and she can get downhill and finish her on the basket so well. Is a really good defender still though, like as a shooter when you're thinking about guards like that is still definitely one of the questions. She's still just an average shooter and so, you know, you wonder year over year she hasn't taken the leap there. I still think the physical tools are the kind of physical makeup that that's going to get her drafted. But you know, she could be due for another surge of draft boards if she replicates the success of last year's tournament this March as well.

E (18:19)

In a conversation I was talking about some of these NCAA players last year I was talking to a scout in the W that mentioned to me Saniya Rivers cuts in her arms. That. That meaning or that just being able to physically see her ability to get in the, in the gym and when I mean the gym, I mean like actually putting up weight and physically preparing herself for the next level. And you've seen this in her growth year over year. When I think about Sinai Rivers, I think passing, I just think of her being this amazing cornerback on defense and just being able to get in fasting lanes and then going the other way with transition points. I think that's a big asset to have from a WNBA perspective. Sabrina, like how much even though she's only averaging about 12 points, six rebounds, she is averaging 3.4 assists. That's huge. How much do you think that that aspect of her just being physically ready and also being incredibly active on the defensive end and pushing pace for a team can help her move up in the draft?

F (19:22)

Yeah, Saniya Rivers is so interesting to me because she has just this like vast disparity in her skills. Right. Like her shooting is nowhere near where you would want it to be. Honestly for a WNBA point guard especially. You know, we're talking about a big. You could shoot the way Sinai river says, it's not a problem, but she's going to be a lead guard. But her passing phenomenal. Like the way she throws those touchdown passes, those outlets even just in the half court, how she finds cutters, it really to me is like a pro level skill already. The way that she can find people with her playmaking ability and her defense. I mean like we had this conversation earlier in the year when they played tcu. Like the only players who could guard Haley Van Lith, Sedona Prince pick and roll were just two. Sanai Rivers, right. Like that's the kind of defender we're talking about. And I do think that we've seen that time and again over the course of the season. Like the way that she is deployed as a help defender, her ability to, you know, guard smaller guards, wings. I would love to see what she could do on Juju Watkins for example if that ever comes up in a tournament situation. But I think those two things part of her game. She's just such an outstanding defender, such an outstanding passer that you have two things that you could say like, oh, she can do that already at a WNBA level and maybe that Gives you time to build in the offense, right. Like it's going to take some time obviously. And she and Isaiah James have a similar situation where like Kiki Areafen, they were only really starters by their junior year. So we're still seeing like the early parts of their developmental curve, right. Because they haven't been consistent contributors for that long in their college careers. So you almost like are willing to give them a little bit more benefit of the doubt because it hasn't been four years of the same thing, it's only been two. But I do think that maybe she's not at the top of the guard group because like there are guards who have more offensive capabilities as scorers. But I would find it really hard not to put Saniyah Rivers like in the top eight at least just because physically I don't think there is a more ready guard for the WNBA than her.

F (21:04)

And sometimes like all you need is one or two pro level skills to have a team take a chance on you, right? Like, and whether that is the physical traits, whether that's the passing in the case of Sinai Rivers, whether that is in the case of others in the past, like you're just an elite three point shooter, like sometimes that alone is enough to get a player drafted, right? And especially like if you're picking, you know, bottom of the first round, second round, we know how volatile maybe, you know, these selections can be and how few players really do make a WNBA opening night roster coming out of training camp. We know how hard it is, right? We write about it year after year when you see these big name college stars who don't end up making WNBA teams and sometimes in the case of players who do, it is because they excel at one thing or two things or three things that, you know, allow a team to say, we're going to keep you around. Right? And so, you know, that is the kind of bet that we often see franchises make. And so, you know, a team might be willing to invest in a pick like Rivers who, you know, has some deficiencies. We talk about the shooting. Sabrina mentioned it too, like, but has so many other high points that they think, okay, we can, you know, at least we know we have something great and we can try and bring more great out of her in ways that she might struggle so far.

E (22:19)

Yeah, no, the funny thing about Saniya Rivers, to me she's, I mean, nothing like this player. But the comparison of the concept of being pro level ready just makes me think of how much people said that about Rekia Jackson, right? Everyone was like, oh, Rakia could go sore in the WNBA right now. I feel like that about the defense of Sinai Rivers. Like Sinai Rivers could go in the WNBA right now and be put on a high level score and handle that and could handle, I'm not going to say one through five, but could handle some serious assignments on the other side of the ball. Okay, let's, let's flip it to another pair of guards in Notre Dame. Interestingly enough, NC State's guards just beat Notre Dame's guards over the weekend. This was not done on purpose for that reason. But I do want to talk because Olivia Miles is gonna be one of those guards that's probably gonna go higher than anyone anticipated. Mainly because no one had seen her. Everyone was just kind of speculating on how good she could be. And now everything that everyone has said about her has come to fruition. We mentioned before talking about Isaiah James Flair. When I think about Olivia Miles, I absolutely think of Flair. And then of course, alongside her, Sonia Citron. Like, she gives me Nica Mule vibes. She gives me solid. I can count on you, put you in any situation. You're going to figure it out, you're going to make the right read, you're going to be solid. And I feel like that is an asset to a lot of WNBA teams. So let's start first to with Olivia Miles, because I, I'm not sure. Let's see. I know you've got in your, your preview of the season, Sabrina, you had Sony Citrone at number three. That's pretty high.

F (23:52)

I still feel good about that.

E (23:53)

Okay, okay, okay. We're gonna go into that a little bit. Uh, and then you've got Olivia Miles at number eight. You know what, I'm going to shift Sabrina, not you first because you feel good about that. Okay, I want to go to Ben first on this. Sonya Sachona, number three is pretty high for that, for that preview. Based on how Sonya has played this season and continued to be that consistent senior for Notre Dame and also taking it on some serious defensive assignments. Ben, what are your thoughts on where Sabrina put Sonya? And you know, has she earned that position to this day?

F (24:28)

I mean, we're having this conversation what, the day after she scores 23 points and has seven rebounds against NC State. And it's, you know, one of the craziest shots of the season. And I think she scored in double digits in each of her last five. Like we're having this conversation when Sonia Citron is playing some of the best basketball she has played all year. And she certainly is one of these players who Hannah Dolgo has occupied a ton of attention and for good reason could be a first team all American this year. Olivia Miles, the same. And so Citron is just kind of slept on, right? And it's like almost thrown into some of these conversations. But, you know, she projects to be, again, like, I think a mid first to high, first round pick just because she has very desirable size for, you know, guards and wings for the two. She's clearly a good teammate. She clearly plays her role really well. You don't hear a bad word about her out of Notre Dame, and she can certainly produce. Like, do I think she'll go number three? Like, again, I've made the case as to why I think it'll be Dominique list conversations for number three. You know, I can't avoid the international. The international plugs throughout any of these shows if you know that. And that will be something. Again, commonplace for me. And the brand is strong here, but, like, she very well could be, you know, four or five or six here, and she will fit well in whatever situation she goes into. So, you know, she might go a little bit lower than where Sabrina had her on the big board, but that's not a reflection of how she's performed. I think it's just a reflection of, like, some other players and maybe how the draft will shake out. Still a highly touted prospect and I think projects to be a really good pro, too.

E (26:02)

All right, well, then, Sabrina, let's toss it to Olivia real quick then, who's been alongside her. I mean, that's what's so scary about Notre Dame is the fact that they have a Hannah Hidalgo and an Olivia Miles and a Sonya Sachon. Like, it is a. I just think thinking of, is it the All State commercial, which. Which car company are they with or car insurance company?

F (26:20)

I think it's All State. Yeah, it's All State. The guy celebrates early and correct.

E (26:24)

And I got the whole lineup and I'm like, mike, they're scary. Notre Dame, they're doing it this year and it's due to the presence of an Olivia Miles who has come back this season and just been exactly what you thought she'd be. She is an amazing creator in transition. She's got great size. She can definitely get up there, rebound, get the break going. From that perspective, she sees the floor in, like, old. Like I. The way I. When I watch Olivia, it's the goggles. It's like when I watch Olivia Miles, I just think of, like, old NBA classic games. Like the way that she like has this kind of way of toying with the ball and almost making fun of the defense and what she sees and what she is able to pull out of the offense. But is that going to be enough in this guard heavy class for Olivia Miles to still go first round?

F (27:19)

So I think that old school comparison of the way that she, you know, plays with the ball, the way she runs the court is so spot on. One thing that is very new school about Olivia Miles is that if you go under on a screen on her, she's going to pop a three pointer right in your face. Over.

E (27:32)

No, I know.

F (27:34)

This is why Olivia Miles is the biggest riser on my board is because she came back from her ACL injury with not just a good three point jump shot, a excellent three point jump shot. It's not just a catch and shoot. She's pulling up, she's coming off staggers like they're running actions to get Olivia Miles three pointers which is something you couldn't have dreamed of in her previous seasons at Notre Dame when she was at best like a 22% 3 point shooter and 27% her freshman year. So, you know, she was excellent getting to the basket, excellent as a playmaker. You know, you mentioned the good size for a guard but. But adding that third level to her scoring is really just what vaulted her up to I think, you know, at least the second best guard in this draft class. I would be stunned if she didn't go number two. And you know, she's the kind of player where I almost wonder like if we need to see more tape on her. Right. Like could she do anything in the tournament to make her stock go higher because like she just needs to keep this three point percentage as pristine as possible. Right?

E (28:27)

Yeah. It is really, it's cool to see her kind of open everything up. And now I'm sure the scouts are kind of looking at her rather than being an on. I mean she's going to be a point guard in the wnba. Absolutely. But being able to see her as a more dynamic point guard and not necessarily having to be a, not necessarily a foil, but someone that's like an accessory to a scorer. She's the scorer herself as well. Ben, thoughts on Olivia Miles and where she's at in the draft for you?

F (28:53)

Yeah, I mean one of the things that some GMs told me and Sabrina last spring, there were two things that they were mostly curious about. One that Sabrina touched on was her outside shooting. Like we literally had someone tell us the biggest thing that they're wondering about if she can do is her outside shooting and that she can do pretty much everything else. That was a direct quote from one of the executives we talked to. And as Sabrina mapped out, like she went from, you know, a 23% three point shooter to now shooting like in the 40s, right? Like that is improvement, that is progression, that answers that, like check. The other thing people wondered was just how was she going to look coming off the injury playing as a Hannah Hidalgo. And I do think, you know, part of the surges, she's looked so good playing next to a high level player. And so suddenly you're entering the WNBA where you go and everyone next to you is a professional player, right? Another high level player. And so being able to prove and show that like you don't need the ball on every possession, that you do know how to fit in, that you can still create next to other great players, like that is something that I think will serve her really well in this draft process. It certainly served her well at Notre Dame and it will also serve her really well when she transitions to the pro game. So, yeah, I think Olivia Miles overall might be the biggest riser from last year to this year for the reasons we outline. I think, you know, there were all these questions to help the shooting, how she was going to fit. I think she's answered all of them and put herself in a position to, as Sabrina said, I think, you know, established herself entering, you know, this final week of the regular season, the NCAA tournament, as the second best prospect on pretty much everyone's big board, both publicly and I would bet privately too.

F (30:22)

I mean, think about all the great Irish guards that she could be playing with in the pros, right? Like Skylar Dean Smith, Ariga Goombawale, like good fits for her all around in the top of the lottery.

E (30:32)

Oh, at the top of lottery, yes, exactly.

F (30:34)

We, you know, we asked on our conversation with Olivia and Maddie Westfeld a couple weeks ago, like, I think I asked the question, comparing it to unrivaled, that we saw Arique and Jackie Young and Marina Mabry tweeting about how they watched like Notre Dame play Stanford on tv and they were all together gathered in one place, like basically having like a college reunion, reliving those days and like watching an old Notre Dame game. You can very easily imagine that in three years, four years time, while there's like Sonia and Olivia and Hannah Doggo when she enters the pros, like sitting back remembering the good old days, like telling stories of Notre Dame and showing up in their locker room when they play, like Miami in the ACC. Like, you can see, like, that is 2.0 version of that other trio I just mentioned too.

E (31:17)

Oh, that Notre Dame pipeline is strong. It's strong to the WNBA. And like Olivia Miles, just under 17.6 rebounds, six assists is wild. My thing for her on the point of the three point shooting, her career three point shot is a 32%. Her. She didn't break 23% until this season. Okay, literally 42% from three this year. That is insane. That is what's even bringing her number up over 30. Like, that's crazy how much of a boon that is to her game overall. Um, and then Sonia Citrone alongside her. And this is probably one of the reasons that she slept on, like, averages 14 points, almost six rebounds, three assists. But when you have a Hannah Hidalgo and Olivia Miles beside you, you're kind of like the third option in terms of where do we get brain capacity to, you know, have attention to. I like it for. I like that for you, Sonia. Let them sleep on you. Let them sleep on you. You make them wake up in the W. Okay, before we get to the next group of folks that we want to talk about, you guys kind of hit on in terms of like, what Olivia Miles needs to do in the tournament. Just keep it moving, keep it going. Sonia Citron has been playing incredibly well in her last few games. But looking at Isaiah, James, Sinai, Rivers, Kiki, what are some of the things that they should be looking forward to doing to impress scouts right before the WNBA draft as March approaches?

F (32:40)

I mean, for me it is if Rivers is a improved three point shooter or an improved shooter in general. Like, I think that is the kind of run that if she makes high shots against high level opponents for, you know, conference tournament into the NCAA tournament, that's the kind of run that I think like, puts you in a really good position to move up in your draft stock. She's one player I certainly have circled as potential risers from, you know, now to the draft in mid April.

E (33:04)

Good call. What about you, Sabrina?

F (33:06)

With Kiki Iriafan, I would say she's probably still like, you know, the best domestic big in this class, but just she has kind of like faded into the background, I would say, of the Juju Watkins show at usc. And a lot of her scoring has tended to come in bunches. You know, like she'll have a big quarter against, you know, Michigan or Ohio State and sort of you wonder where she was for other parts of that game, I think just more consistent stretches for her would go a long way in terms of just like raising her potential upside.

E (33:35)

Yeah. And a lot of her scoring comes off o boards, too. Being able to maybe create on her own and find her way within the offense would be a really great aspect for her game. Okay, let's keep the conversation going. I want to talk point guards because right now, you know, Paige Becker's. We're going to predict. I'm still predicting number one. Is that fair for you and Ben, Sabrina? You guys still think I'm number one?

F (34:00)

I mean, assuming she comes out. Yeah, sure.

E (34:02)

Assuming she comes out. Exactly. Assuming she comes out. Still thinking number one. But now let's think about. There's some other. There's. There's a lot of guards in this conversation, but in terms of point guards, folks with the ball in their hands a lot at their respective schools. Two people that are in this conversation that come to mind. Georgia Amore and Tahina Powpow. Now let's take Georgia Amore first at Kentucky, leaves Virginia Tech and brings the same, same level of scoring, same level of creation, same level of everything that she had at Virginia Tech. She has brought it to Kentucky. She also lucked out and got Elizabeth Kitley 2.0 in Clara Strack, and she also has the same coach in Kenny Brooks. Like, it's just like, all right, cool. Georgia Amore's got everything cooking for her at Kentucky, but now it's a matter of can that same level of cooking happen on the WNBA level, especially at her size, et cetera? Sabrina, I'm gonna start with you. When you look at where you had Georgia Amor in the conversation last year, which, let me just check, make sure I got my numbers right, you had her still in the first round at number four. When you think about the guard play that's elevated this year, does Georgia still warrant that position?

F (35:13)

Yeah, I think it's not so much Georgia's play that's going to change things for her. It's just her size. You just see the limitations of it, especially in the sec, which is a bigger, more physical conference than the ACC was. You know, she's going up against, like, Jordan Lee is guarding her when she plays Texas. And, you know, that was a bit of a struggle. And then you've got like, Cheyenne Day Wilson, who's a bigger point guard, who is guarding her when LSU played Kentucky just on Sunday. And, you know, she hasn't even gotten to South Carolina yet. But like, Ole Miss was really was a tough one for her. Kennedy Todd Williams got the primary assignment for a long stretch of that game, which, like, that's a big wing who is giving Georgia some difficulty. So I think, you know, just you become more aware of the fact that Georgia is 5, 5, 5, 6 when she plays against SEC opponents. And for all of the gifts that she has, like, she had that hang in the air, a little reverse thing that made an iconic Kim Mulkey face in their game against LSU the other day. But, you know, at the next level, it's just how, how comfortable is she going to be against opponents who are bigger, who are stronger, and who can continuously give her, like, SEC type defenses every night out? That's still the concern with me for Georgia. Like, I still think she's as talented as productive. Like, that's the kind of leader person you want in the locker room, honestly, the kind of person who can sell tickets, frankly, if you're Georgia Amore. So she's got like all of the intangibles. You'd want to be like, a good lead guard for you. But I just can't get past the fact that, like, you know, I think about the Crystal Dangerfields of the world and like, just five, six seems to be a pretty tough task to overcome in the wnba. So, you know, if she could, like, play in lifts, like, yeah, I feel great about her at number four, but as it stands, like, I think, you know, we might see her in a later first round situation just because we're starting to see on a regular basis what it looks like when she plays against WNBA caliber athletes.

E (36:58)

Okay. All right. I'm thinking about Jordan Canada, right.

F (37:03)

Who is a defensive dynamo, though, and still like 5, 8ish, right.

E (37:07)

So she's 5, 6.

F (37:09)

I don't think she is.

E (37:10)

I mean, that's what they did. Yeah.

F (37:12)

But anyway, maybe.

E (37:12)

Yeah, but okay, you're right. You're right. Where Georgia Amore is focused on offense, Jordan Cannon absolutely brought out the defensive aspect. Now, I struggle because I'm trying to think, Ben, of any team that could really use a player like Georgia Amore right now. What comes to mind for you?

F (37:34)

Well, I think one of the sentiments we heard from a lot of people last year is that, like, maybe at worst, she is a really good backup point guard. And what we heard from a lot of executives was like, pretty much every team can use, like, a pretty reliable young backup point guard that they can develop. Right. That, like, she's gonna, you know, she could potentially play a big role on, you know, one of these teams that is a little bit thinner at the guard position. But towards the end of the first round, like, you could slot her in. And we know that, you know, I think there is a belief that she can thrive still against bigger players, even in a smaller role, at least run a team effectively and successfully. And she has proven to do that at Virginia Tech and Kentucky. And so, look, I do think, like, the same questions that existed last year at this time or in April, I guess, exist today, right? As we enter this tournament. Like Georgia Amore, I think I don't know how much she stands to benefit from, like, an exciting close to the season. She might be one of the most exciting players to watch in this NCAA tournament. Like, if you're saying, okay, who are the players you're most excited to see or, like, who fans might gravitate towards, she might be on that short list of three, five, seven players that, like, people should be watching. But I don't know how much her draft stock stands because to improve, because, you know, the limitations, again, size being the number one thing, like, that existed back then a year ago. And I think it's why so many evaluators were a little bit surprised that she elected to transfer and go from Virginia Tech to Kentucky and not just go to the draft. And it exists again today. So, you know, those questions exist. Size, the physicality. Still a question. She has had success in the sec, we should say. Like, I think she scored in single digits just once all season. I think she's averaged, like, she's recorded fewer than five assists, like, three or four times overall this year. Like, she's been really good. At worst, I think, you know, backup point guard, potentially a starter on another team, but certainly a player that everyone is excited to watch. And Sabrina put it right, like, people are just excited to have her or enjoy being around her in the locker room. And so I think she'll fit in wherever she goes.

E (39:34)

We interviewed her last year, and she was hilarious. Um, if you guys ever want to go into the archives, go listen to that. But, you know, Ben, you make a really great point. When you look at the fact that Georgia Amore in the sec, where there's a lot of attention on her, she's been able to shift her game to become even more of a creator than she was at Virginia Tech. And in. In her first years at Virginia Tech, like, she's averaging seven assists this season, the highest that she's had her entire career. And she started her career at about four and a half. And so consistently, every single year, she's just made that improvement in being able to find different ways to impact the game offensively. And heck, when you need a little bit of a break for your point guard, you need somebody that can still be a floor general and keep things in order. Definitely very beneficial. That makes me think of someone else that we were just talking about. Tahina Powpow. When you think about the trust that Don Staley has and Tahina Powpow to keep things in order on the floor, that is Tahina Pow Powell. That is a floor general. That is who. That's a girl with poise. She has such a calm essence to her that makes you feel like if South Carolina is down, they will find a way back up. It's an extension of Don Staley out on the court and I think that that is a huge asset that, you know, scouts and GMs are probably looking at and wanting to add into their mix. Sabrina, let's talk about Tahina Powpow. You had her at number nine in that pre season draft. Overlook where you're thinking for Tahina Powpow with the season that she has had this year.

F (41:06)

Yeah, I think Powpow stock actually might have come down a little bit since last year just because she was an absolute fireball from three point range during her first season in South Carolina. You know, she makes 47% of her threes, which leads the nation and just an insane number. Right. Like you think about what differentiated South Carolina last year. It was you can't play zone on them, you can't like go under on them because there's Pow pow, there's Tessa Johnson. And now, you know, this season she's back at like 39% which is a very, very good number. It's just not like a five alarm fire number. Right. And when you're Tahina Pow Pow who's you know, five, nine, like not exactly the. Like she doesn't have like the biggest frame for a two guard. You know, she's kind of a combo one, two. But you kind of need some super like overwhelming skill. And that was her shooting last year and it just hasn't been the same, you know, like asset for her this year. Her free throw shooting's down a little bit this year too. What has, you know, improved is she's developed that floater, been really effective at getting into the lane and scoring in the paint when people try to close out on her at the three point line. So that's something I just think about like the history of South Carolina guards, especially in the Don Staley era and the wnba. And you Know, you think about like a Sinaiya Fagan, and yeah, it took her four years to come on at South Carolina and she only really have one year of tape. But, like, you look at all the other bigs from South Carolina who just make it work in the wnba, right? And there's like a level of extra grace afforded to them because she's from the same pipeline, she's had the same instruction. You know, like, you believe that she can figure it out. And then you look at the guards and it's like, who are we pointing to? That, like, really provides the template for what Tahina Powpow can be in. Like, maybe that's Ty Harris. I don't know. Like, that's. She's become a really good three point shooter, solid defender, you know, like a kind of guard you were happy to have in your rotation, but otherwise, like Ziah Cook, you know, Sparks cut her this offseason. She's on a training camp deal with Seattle. Like, Tiffany Mitchell never really turned into the type of offensive player they wanted her to be. It's not as fruitful of a lineage of South Carolina. Right. Like, yeah, so I think that's kind of going to work against her just because, like, you can't necessarily give as much benefit of the doubt. And I'm just not sure, like, whether she's a one or a two. Right. Like, kind of goes back and forth at South Carolina. Like, for me, if I'm drafting, you know, a lead guard type player, a scoring guard type player, I want to know that they have the ability to, like, absolutely dominate the offense for stretches at a time. And maybe it's a function of just how South Carolina plays. That Pow Pow doesn't really get the opportunity to do that. Right. Like, that hasn't really come for her this season in the same way that it did last year. So I think, you know, there's enough good tape on Pow Pow that, like, you can be. Look at her first season at South Carolina. Like, that's the type of player that we're looking to get. It's just there's enough other tape on Pow Pow that it's like, all right, well, maybe she's not the ace shooter, like ace creator that we're hoping to get. So I kind of see her falling out of the first round right now, but I wouldn't be surprised if somebody took a chance on her because like you said, adult in the room in South Carolina, she's a national champion. There's a lot of good things you can point to. It's just this is such a deep guard class that you're splitting hairs here. There's just so many good players to choose from and I'm not sure Powpow is like done enough to separate herself at this point this season.

E (44:07)

Yeah, I don't know if we've done enough discussion around South Carolina guards being really great system guards. They work really well within the South Carolina system. And how well does that translate to the WNBA versus their post players in terms of them being able to stand out and be efficient in any sort of system. Ben, what are your thoughts on that?

F (44:26)

Well, I mean I would just say I don't think Alicia Gray is going to take the slander.

E (44:31)

Oh, you right, you're right.

F (44:31)

She's a wing, she's not a guard.

F (44:33)

Yeah, I mean she is a guard, let's be clear. I mean she's a transfer, she's a wing, she's a transfer, the one twos, she's a transfer. I'll accept that in the pushback of the argument here. But she's a different player than Tahina Papo. So I think Sabrina's point still stands. I mean I do think like look, the three point shooting again going back to like skills that you can do like that alone is going to make get her drafted in the wnba. And I do see like you know, last year if you think about the top of the second round, Chicago took Brenna Maxwell from Gonzaga who was one of the best three point shooters in the nation a bunch of years during her college career. Like she's a, she was a bigger guard or is a bigger guard than Tahina Powhow. But like you could certainly see a team early in the second round saying like let's take Tahina Pow Powell. Let's bet that she is closer to her three point shooter of 23, 24 than she is of 24, 25. And like we know she's going to be, you know, solid a pro, well coached, not phased by the physicality of their professional game. That was definitely feedback we heard on her heading into last year's draft and we'll see how it goes. Like if she then makes a team or if she doesn't, I think we'll have a lot to do with where she ends up. But I think the three point shooting alone and just like, you know, not being phased, going up against, you know, professionals that will certainly get her drafted. And I like where Sabrina is pegging her and defers kind of early second round in this upcoming draft.

F (45:55)

I agree that Having that one bankable three point shooting skill is something that gets players drafted. It is not something that lets players stick in the league though. This is not.

F (46:03)

That's correct. That's true.

F (46:04)

This is not a league that likes specialists like you think about Taylor Robertson, you know, all time three point scoring, three point shooting leader in NCAA history, did not stick on a WNB roster. Taylor Mike Sell, you know, just an absolute bomber, great three point shooter, hasn't found a way to stick in the wnba. So you know, this is something that's sort of come up like when you have a limited roster with 12 spots versus like 15 in the NBA which you know, adds up to like 18 with all the two way guys. You can't afford to have people who can't do more than one thing, right? So as much as it is great to have one standout skill, I don't think that's going to be quite enough to get Tina Papa to stick on WNBA roster. Maybe it's different now with expansion, but you know what I'd want to see from her in the tournament is like can she have like a really good playmaking game? Is there you know, an opportunity for her to just pop as like a multi level scorer as opposed to just making some jump shots in a game, you know, and we again we saw some of that last year, like the UConn game during the regular season stands out to me. She had some good tournament games, but I think just a reminder of that, like South Carolina's in a bit of a lull, right? You know, it hasn't been like epic South Carolina season, but if she can have just putting on like the variety of skills, like putting those to display in the NCAA tournament, I think would help her in terms of just getting a good impression on WNBA executives minds heading into the draft.

E (47:18)

I feel as if Tahina Powpow, her second asset is just how poised she is. And the reason why I think about that, I think about a Kate Martin getting drafted and when you think about assessing her talent, maybe you guys can correct me here, but like when you assess her talent alongside of Caitlin Clark, she had size to her that I think Tahina Pow Pow does not have. And I think that that's one thing, but there was a feistiness to her and a firepower about her that I think Tahina Pow Powder has in a, in a poised manner. And I think maybe GMs appreciate that. Like how much do GMs actually put that personality aspect in the way that they assess talent?

F (47:53)

I think they certainly consider it a fair amount. And if you look at someone like Kate Martin, like, I think fit, right, like, that is where Kate Martin might not be the most skilled player. But you know, you're getting a player who is a star in their role and is very comfortable starring in whatever role you throw out. Like, yeah, that is how she stuck with the Las Vegas Aces last year. It wasn't because she's the best creator or the best rebounder or the best three point shooter. It is because she's very good at a lot of things and very much willing to play that role. And now suddenly, like a year later, you know, I think we're gonna see a different Kate Martin in this WNBA regular season. She's going to be asked to do a lot more. But if you talk to anyone at unrivaled, like, she has been one of the players that so many people have been most impressed by and she's playing with a ton more confidence, just creating and having to create her own shot in that environment, having to defend one on one, the best players in the world in that environment. So, you know, she is someone like fit, really, really important. I think the same thing certainly true with, with Pow Pow, as we've talked about.

E (48:50)

Okay. All right. Well, before we get to my other guard that has a relationship or connection to Paige Becker's thoughts on, you know, Georgia Amore is going to show out in the tournament. She's going to show out anywhere she is. It's going to be a fun show to watch. It sounds like Tahina Pow Powell needs to be shooting like crazy in the tournament to help her draft. But is there, you know, is it also putting on like a defensive showcase? Like, what are some of the other things that these two can do and being able to up their draft stock?

F (49:18)

I mean, with Georgia, I think there's just so much tape on her and like, we kind of know what kind of player she is. And I'm not certain that anything is really going to affect her draft stock unless she like, leads Kentucky to a Final Four, you know, or grows four inches right in the process. She's probably beaten some good, you know, physical teams on the way. Right. So I doubt that Amor is really, you know, looking at this next month as like a rising falling situation. GMs know who she is. I think it's similar with Pow Pow. You know, another good tournament run would help that argument that like, she is poised, she does know how to handle herself in these situations. I think that's what helped with Kate Martin was two straight runs to the national title game, right. Where she's the person who can't play off the floor. So I think just more winning with pow pow, you know, more showing different parts for bag, right? Like can she be like a pull up threat and get to the basket and do a little bit of playmaking, right? Like, you just got to make sure she's diversified, right. I think that's what's going to help with pow pow. And, and like what Ben said, a lot of it is just fit, right? If it's a situation where, you know, I think about former South Carolina player Victoria Saxton, right? Like she lasted two years in Indiana because, you know, they didn't necessarily need the roster spot there for another player, but they loved her personality in the locker room, they loved her work ethic and, you know, they trusted that she was somebody who could help Leah Boston practice. Right. So it's all part of the package. Like you never know what a particular front office is going to want in their roster spot. And so much of it is like not whether you're drafted 10th or 14th, it's whether you're drafted to the right team or the wrong team.

E (50:45)

Okay. All right. Now I actually think I'm going to leave this last guard for our last conversation. I'm going to switch the conversation real quickly to forwards because again, this is a guard heavy draft. But there are a few forwards that are available for a conversation in Cheyenne Sellers, Aisha Koulibaly, Aoka Lee, which really is a center, but you never know in the W she could be definitely a forward and Madison Scott and I particularly, I'm putting all these folks together and you know, Madison Scott maybe shouldn't be in this conversation, but I think about people that have been injured and I've been having and have had to either fight back to the court like a Cheyenne Sellard or are completely injured in this year and now have to use their current NCAA tape as the evidence to where they should sit in the draft. And I'm looking at all four of these players. Aoka Lee has had an up and down, up and down career, but thinking about domestic bigs, she's got size, you can't deny. She's got footwork and a presence out on the court that you can't deny. Where do we think that Aoka Lee will find herself when the draft starts? Ben, I'll start with you.

F (51:57)

I think it is a very good question because of health and because of just the traditional 5 player in the WNBA. That role seems to Be going away much like it did, you know, within the last five or 10 years in the NBA too. Right. And so she very much has shown that she can produce in college when she's on the floor, but she has obviously dealt with a bunch of knee injuries throughout her college career. And she does not, you know, she does not shoot three pointers at all, is not a threat from the perimeter. And so I think that really does limit the kind of ceiling that you can have on a player. She is definitely the kind of player I would still expect her to get drafted. You know, I think that is the safest bet in this conversation. But if you told me she went end of first round, I guess I wouldn't be totally shocked. If you told me second round, like, I think that's super fair. If you told me she slipped even further, like, I can see the case there as well. I think she's a really, really good college player. Someone that like, again, the physicality, like people really like, like we had a comparison, I remember last year to Tierra McCown. Some people were saying, right, And Tierra obviously was a top five pick in the WNBA draft, you know, not that long ago. But I do think the game has changed and the health concerns as well loom pretty large. We obviously don't have her medical, don't know her medical history and don't know how a team is evaluating that. But I think that's where you get the variance with Lee. She can kind of go anywhere. And I know that's a little bit of a cop out, but I, but I do think it's the truth.

E (53:16)

Sabrina, you had her number five in your draft preview and your thoughts around her game being similar to Camila Cardoso, who also doesn't shoot threes unless you're talking about that conference final against Tennessee. Then she shoots threes and she shoots bank threes at that. But anywho, doesn't shoot threes. But still great presence in Chicago, getting on the glass, also being able to distribute. Now in Camila Cardoso, can you see the same thing for Aoka Lee?

F (53:45)

Yeah, my questions with Aoka are not really so much about her style of play. I do think that even though she is a 6 foot 6 center who doesn't necessarily have shooting range, she is mobile enough, she is a good passing hub and she just commands so much attention that, you know, allows the rest of the Kansas State offense to function that I could see her fitting in the W. For me it's just all health, right. Like she's missed full Seasons, I think with leg injuries. She is currently out with foot injury. Sorry, not full seasons, but she has missed one full season with a, you know, leg injury. She's currently missing with a foot injury. I think just the uncertainty about her knocks her out of the first round for me. Definitely. I could probably see her as a late second, someone to take a flyer on, you know, you get her in your system and see if you can rehab her and get her to a point where she can stay on the court. But I just can't see her being a first round pick with the uncertainty about her health. I mean, I feel the same way about like Sedona Prince, who has frankly a lot more questions about her personally, which we don't necessarily need to get into now. But Maddie West Belt kind of falls into this lane for me too where there's concerns about her physically because, you know, she missed this first part of the season. You mentioned Aisha Koulibaly who's out with the torn acl. I want to say for the rest of the year it's not that and.

E (54:53)

Thank you for clearing that up for me.

F (54:54)

Sorry.

E (54:55)

Yeah, I, I said, I said Cheyenne Sellers. I meant to say Maddie West Belt. Cheyenne Sellers is a guard, not a forward. But yes, continue. Sorry about that.

F (55:03)

Yeah, it's not necessarily that like teams aren't willing to take chances on players who are hurt, you know, and see what can happen. Like we just saw the Aces draft with Kitley last year. Seattle drafted Mackenzie Holmes. You can wait a year and see what happens like after they get some pro level rehab in them. But when you're talking about first round picks, I just can't see any of these people getting in that range because first round picks are so valuable that to not have that certainty, it's just really difficult.

F (55:27)

And also if you think about, you know, I would argue smart general manager, smart front office work, you know, this is where we have to factor some of the international prospects and put them back in the conversation because like, you know, someone like a ukulele, she's 24 years old. Right. So you're kind of weighing. Do we take a question, a player with some questions on the medical side in Ayoko, who's 24 and we think we kind of know what her game is or do we take, you know, a 19 year old international prospect who's been playing pro for a year or two or three who like might have the physical tools but might be a little bit more raw? Right. Like which player do we want to develop? And I would argue that like, you know, you can maybe find some more diamonds in the rough, so to speak, in drafting some of those foreign players, potentially stashing them as well, you know, brings in a whole conversation about roster size. But like, you can stash that kind of player, you can hope they develop overseas and you bring them over when they're 20, 21, 22 years old. They would still be in college if they were in the U.S. but now, like we have a even more pro ready player who's been in, you know, in the pro ranks and we think we can throw into the fire. So, you know, that is where like, you know, these teams are weighing what to do with some of those players you listed, Xena, and trying to think, okay, how do we weigh that against, you know, some international players who might be unproven in North America, might not have the same kind of PR behind them, but might be high upside, you know, higher upsides by comparison.

E (56:43)

Now, Sabrina, you mentioned that, you know, some of these teams do take chances on folks that had health issues, of course. Aoka Lee, Aisha Kubali, these are the type of names that come to mind. The biggest question mark though, is the last person I want to talk about, and that's AZ Fudd. Another player that has had ups and downs in her career, has not really been able to really unleash the full capacity, I think of her game because of these absences, long absences from the court. But now she's back and she's looking really, really good. Now we don't know if she'll come out this year, but you had her at number 10 in your preview thoughts on where and if she's merited being able to stay in the first round with the play that she's had and what she should do in the NCAA tournament if she hasn't to stay there or rise.

F (57:26)

Yeah, I mean, Az, you know, comes in at number 10 a lot like Olivia Miles because she missed the previous season. Almost all of it was a torn acl and we just didn't have the tape on her, what she was going to look like coming that injury. And AZ has a longer history, as you mentioned, with injuries. You know, I got to talk with her and Paige at the start of the season and they said they hadn't been healthy together since like high school on usa. So this was the first time. Right. And we're seeing what a healthy AZ flood looks like. Right. We saw that with her putting up the career high of 34 points against St. John's and then following that up with 28 points in that massive beat down of South Carolina. You know, just what she's able to do with her jumper. She's got an excellent drive game. She's, you know, I think an underrated defender. Just with her size at her position, just a really big guard, big physical guard. And frankly, I have never seen, seen a more perfect jump shot in the college king of the NC FUDs. Like, it's just beautiful. Technically it looks perfect.

E (58:13)

Correct.

F (58:13)

So I think if she decides to come out and I'm, you know, I just have no idea at this point if she will. Like, she's barely played a full season of college basketball. Maybe this is an experience that she wants to have before she goes pro, maybe it's not, but if she goes pro, she'll be a first rounder. Like I have no doubt in my mind about that. Just the combination of her physical tools, her pedigree, you know, having gone to UConn and the upside that we've seen, right, it's not just this year. Even like two years ago when Paige was injured, she had these back to back games against Texas and NC State where she was just absolutely on fire. And those are really good Texas and NC State teams. So, you know, you've seen her come to play in really big games when her body is ready. And I think it's the kind of thing where, you know, if we get her in our system, right, like if we trust our medical staff to do right with az, then a lot of teams are going to have really high interest in her because like, this is still a really highly rated prospect who's shown what she's capable of. And I think if she has a fully healthy season, right, like if she has a couple big tournament games, then the medicals are not gonna be enough to turn people off.

E (59:10)

Yeah, agreed here. Averaging 13 points. I would like to see her rebound better. Only two rebounds a game on average at 5:11, I'm like, you can get in the paint, come on, get a little bit more, few more boards. But yeah, it's absolutely phenomenal to just see her coming into her offensive game and offensive bag, knowing that she trains with the likes of Steph Curry in the offseason. Like, this is the pedigree of where she already had a great shot and this is how she's just improving her game. She's been a professional since she was like 16. And that I feel is a very important fact. Ben, when you think about AZ Fudd and how she can fit into the wnba, what Sticks out to you.

F (59:47)

I mean, if she stays healthy, she can very much become a starting and high level caliber WNBA player for all the reasons that Sabrina just mentioned. And to me, like, she is the player that I think think stance to potentially rise the most over the end of these conference tournaments and into the NCAA tournament. Just because if she can put together, you know, four, five, six really, really high level games, like, you know, I think that combined with the South Carolina performance that Sabrina mentioned, coupled with some of the other performances Sabrina mentioned, like that alone is going to get her drafted. You know, I think could be mid first round, right. Like, if not higher, like she. People want to be enamored by easy foot. I think that is like kind of the common refrain here. Right. And like, I'm not the only one who's like watching Severance right now. But I would like to think that like, you know, in theory I've been thinking about like if you were a severed basketball gm just like, who could only watch like the same thing at work. Like you're hoping you're just playing that South Carolina tape inside Lumen over and over and over, over again. And you're forgetting about all the other things that happen on the outside and all the other games. You just play that on repeat. If you just see that tape, she's going number one, she's going number two, she's going number three. Right. Like she's that good. She's been that prolific. And so, you know, it's hard to obviously separate, you know, what's happening in those games versus the other context. But like, that's the kind of talent, the kind of pedigree she has. And that's why I think she stands to really, you know, fly out draft boards if she plays really, really well during their stretch run here.

E (61:16)

Man, this entire conversation is just reminding me that March is about to be crazy. Like all this talent just stock full. We have been spoiled year after year, especially in these recent years of just like amazing talent that we all have visibility to. And we got more visibility because we're able to see them play across more channels and just being able to capture wow, guard play, elevated bigs. I mean everything is just more advanced overall and it's going to be a big tournament and the WNBA unrivaled, all these pro spaces, people are trying to get to these spaces even more than they were, let's say five, 10 years ago. So again, people are competing to get there. Ben, Sabrina, as always, thank you for breaking the game down for us, breaking down this draft we're obviously going to talk more about the draft as we get closer to the time, but March is coming first and so we got to continue this conference play. Get going. March is literally around the corner, which is so scary. These conference tournaments happening first and then March Madness. All right, appreciate all of you tuning in today. Again, hit that subscribe button on our show. Leave us comments if you have any topics and make sure you go check out that Yahoo Sports Women's sports hub. We've got that@sports.yahoo.com womens-sports it's not just basketball, it's all women's sports coverage. Make sure you check that out. On behalf of Ben, on behalf of Sabrina, I'm Zena Kada thanking you for your ear and encouraging you. Keep watching, keep listening, keep learning and keep loving the game because that's the only way we're going to keep growing until next time.

Ben Pickman (63:02)

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We will make fun of pop culture news.

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