← No Offseason: The Athletic Women's Basketball Show
No Offseason: The Athletic Women's Basketball Show
WNBA Draft Reaction: What Were the Biggest Surprises, Steals and Memorable Moments?
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- [00:00]
Zena Kaeda
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- [01:33]
Sabrina Merchant
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- [03:35]
Ben Pickman
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E
There to watch them.
- [03:56]
Ben Pickman
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- [05:08]
E
For the Athletic. I'm Zena Kaeda and this is the Athletic Women's Basketball show, our reaction pod to the WNBA Draft. Welcome to a special edition of the Athletic Women's Basketball Show. It is right after the draft. I'm Zena Kada, joined by basketball writers at the athletics, Sabrina Merchant and Ben Pickman to talk about the 2024 WN NBA Draft. I'm pumped because one Ben Pickman was actually there. So he's going to give us a little bit of insight into what he saw, what he heard, what was going on around the atmosphere. And then, of course, the draft happened. This rookie class, so highly anticipated, and now they have found their next potential homes. And of course, we'll talk about what that means. All right, let's get right into into it. Ben, you were at the draft. This was a new layout this year. There were fans for the first time. And with the introduction of fans went away the historic tweets from the crowd that you would see on the broadcast. So some of us at home were missing that, but it felt like the love was in the building. What was it like for you to be there?
- [06:35]
F
Well, it was a pretty enthusiastic and energized scene in the building from the moment that fans started to walk in, through all the being made till the very end of the night, where people, you know, the agents and other people with the league and just other people who had credentials and were around were just hanging out in the lobby and waiting to go home. The energy was still there. And I should say I live around 10 or 15 minutes from the arena. I'm still just getting back from BAM from the site of the WNBA draft. So I'm still on a little bit of a high from being there myself. I mean, it was in a theater, a really old theater in Brooklyn, just to set the stage, which was a new location. In past years, it had been in more of like a studio space in the lower Manhattan. And so this definitely had, like a theater feel to it. People were in seats the way you would if you were seeing a Broadway show. And people stood up out of their seats as players names were called and wooed and cheered. There was certainly a huge ovation for Caitlin Clark. A lot of fans wearing Iowa jerseys or Iowa T shirts, rather, in attendance, kind of showed her a ton of support. But they showed a lot of love for a lot of players. I think one of the things that was really interesting for me is at a certain point of time, you know, this is a little behind the scenes. I went upstairs to go watch the press conferences and eventually write a story on the site that is should be posted as people are listening to this now. And so I heard a lot of background noise just from people in the actual theater themselves on the fourth floor up. Just the cheers for Nica Mule in the second round for Deja Fair when she heard her name called For Charisma Osborne when she heard her name called by the Phoenix Mercury. Like, it was kind of cool to hear the energy still kind of radiating up through a back entrance and all these stairwells in the theater. You know, as these selections were being made, it made for a really kind of cool environment. I was glad that it seemed like people were able to gather at their tables, players, families, that kind of thing, and watch the draft itself. But, yeah, Bam was. Bam was good. A ton of people on the red carpet. The orange carpet, rather. I think that's my opening scene. Setter, take Xena and Sabrina. How does all that sound?
- [08:30]
E
That looks and sounds perfect. I can see it now. And the location was the Brooklyn Academy of Music. And it was cool that they were actually able to have tables and still the audience in the back. And they were absolutely loud, particularly the New York Liberty fans, which makes sense since this is their home. But the orange carpet, I'm happy you brought it up. There was a perfect tweet from Sidney Colson that said that she was emotional at the fact that the. The. The new draft picks don't have to dress business casual to the WNBA draft. Devereaux Peters kind of, you know, seconded that emotion, saying, you know, we didn't opt to look like that in past drafts. All right. And this was the most evolved in terms of fits. Dressed to success. But, like, these girls cleared the orange carpet. I was so impressed with all the looks. It was so involved. And I understand, Ben, you had to talk a little bit to Caitlyn. You know, she was in Prada, apparently, the first time that Prada has ever dressed anyone for the NBA or WNBA draft. She's had a crazy week leading up to tonight. Of course, that Saturday Night Live appearance, that was hilarious, putting Michael Che to shame. Tell me a little bit about what you learned about the setup to that.
- [09:53]
F
Yeah, I will. But let me first say. I mean, the orange carpet, I think we should give that another moment, Xena, if that is okay. We will.
- [09:59]
E
Don't you worry. I just want to know how that got set up.
- [10:02]
F
I.
- [10:02]
E
Because I'm very curious, actually. I was very impressed that someone just coming out of college found a way to have a whole team to set up a Saturday Night Live appearance in the week that she's getting ready to get drafted.
- [10:14]
F
Then I'm happy to oblige. So conversations about that began a few weeks ago between, you know, members of Caitlin Clark's agency and the folks at snl. But Caitlin Clark really had only just a limited time window to make that cameo even possible. She had been traveling like crazy since in the last eight days, or eight, nine days rather, with this coming out on Tuesday morning. Think about this. She played in that national championship game on April 7 against South Carolina. The next day they flew back to campus in Iowa City. She then drove back home. By Wednesday, though, she was back on campus, celebrating with her team the success of their season in front of all their fans. By Friday, then, she was out in Los Angeles for the Wooden Award ceremony. The following morning, she boarded a flight to New York. She landed at around 5pm Eastern time, went straight to 30 Rockefeller Plaza, where SNL is shot, and basically jumped right into SNL mode. She had just a dry run, a dress rehearsal, and then she slid in next to Colin, next to Colin Jost and Michael Che, and delivered her four minutes of zingers. I think. You know, I asked Caitlin Clark about this on the carpet, actually, even for herself, who, you know, she's one of the biggest stars across all of sports and, you know, one of the biggest emerging stars in our culture right now. Meeting Lorne Michaels and Ryan Gosling, she said, was pretty awesome. She described them as two of the most influential people in the world. And she said in particular, standing next to Gosling, that you just kind of start freaking out a little bit. That was her quote. He's just amazing. One other fun tidbit from that Lauren Michaels was actually the person who suggested to Caitlin Clark that Kate Martin, Gabby Marshall and Jada Gyanfi join them for the goodbyes part of snl. It's kind of a really touching moment. And I guess Lauren maybe is a fan of the Iowa Hawkeyes, I guess. Who knows? I'll have to ask him for comment one of these days, but that is kind of the backstory of how all that came together. And you're right, part of a whirlwind moment. Sunday she had all these fittings, some interviews, some meetings with WNBPA and WNBA officials. By Monday morning, she's at the Empire State Building with the rest of the draft class experience. The Empire State Building. And suddenly by Monday night is the WNB draft. And the rest, as they say, is history.
- [12:23]
G
Well, the good thing for Caitlin is she didn't have to schedule any interviews with GMs and teams because it was pretty clear where she was going to go by the start of the draft.
- [12:31]
E
Just in case there was any doubt. She was good. She was good to go. That is insane and super cool. She also looked so fly, and I think she really started her outfits of the week on snl, that Nike jacket that she had on was super dope. I like, I don't know if it flew off the shelves. It probably did. It was super nice. And then she comes in into the draft with that all white and then shimmery like crop top underneath from Prada with the shades that are all. Everyone's already asking, where's the link to the shades? And it wasn't just her. Like all of them had a whirlwind getting here. You think about Camila Cardoso in that Olivia Pope red pantsuit looking fire as she came in for the draft. She just came from the South Carolina parade the day before. And then you see them, you know, one few hours before on the Empire State Building in their orange WNBA hoodies. All of them. And they came to the orange carpet looking like complete celebrities. Cameron Brink. A moment for the slit, folks. A moment for the LA slit. It fits so well that she is going to Los Angeles because my God, the fashion house has better be on speed dial. She looked insane and let's not be real, like her LA counterpart, rkia Jackson. Is this a first ever outfit change, y'all?
- [13:58]
G
I am unfamiliar with a player being on the carpet in a different outfit than at the actual traps.
- [14:03]
E
That is called main character energy. Folks, like literally came on the red carpet with a very unique suit in red, had the Detroit buff. If you don't know what that is, it's those see through sunglasses that she was rocking very much staying home to her Detroit culture and then switched it up in the room in a. I mean, shimmery. It was my favorite outfit. It gave me like a little bit of Aaliyah vibes without the black like sweatpants, if you know what I'm talking about. It's the shimmery gold like bralette that she had. But she had a suit. Oh, it was absolutely unreal. It has really elevated from Even what the 2014 draft class looked like. They looked like they were going to interview for their first jobs compared to the red carpet stunt that this class did.
- [14:53]
F
I've worked the orange carpet the past couple of years, which is a crazy thing for me to just say out of my mouth. But I've gone to the draft the past couple of years and I worked the carpet every single year asking hard hitting journalists some questions.
- [15:04]
E
I'm sure you do.
- [15:05]
F
Of course, most people that I have seen on the carpet in years, I think everyone across the board, they were a lot of people crammed in to a very small space, even in a new location. Seems like the orange carpet, you know, could use a little bit of an extension of some sort just to give some people some more space to breathe. Credit to some members of this draft class because they were on that carpet for like some 30 minutes, like 40 minutes for some people, like just fielding questions, you know, credit to all the members of this draft class for going through that, putting up with it. You know, some people like me, I'm a one question guy, if anything, maybe two on the orange carpet or just filming the fit. But some people are asking like really long sit down interviews. It is pretty crazy to witness, but it's a really celebratory scene, a really cool scene. And I do have to add, just for factual accuracy here, there was one other notable outfit change that happened actually on Monday night that belongs to Kathy Engelbert, the WNBA commissioner. She wore an outfit for the carpet and also on the podium or on the stage when she was announcing pics that was different than the outfit she wore when she conducted her press conference with media. I should note though, that was the same outfit that she wore earlier in the day at the Empire State Building. So make of that what you will, but I do have to throw that little wrinkle in there. As we relate to outfit changes and just factual accuracy here. Again, Only journalism number one 101 here at the Athletic.
- [16:29]
E
Thanks to Ben, we now know Kathy Engelbert is the one setting the bar. Look at her setting the standard here. Shout out to Rekia Jackson for following in those footsteps. No, they looked amazing. And I'd have to say, you know, Sabrina, you got to watch the draft from home. Similar to me, when you think about the way that these young women responded to the questions of Holly Row and just in general of how they've been responding to media questions all throughout this experience, I feel as if they are so much more polished or prepared than in previous years. As a person in the media that's been the person asking these questions. Would you feel the same?
- [17:07]
G
I mean, I think part of it is they're just on national TV more often, right? There are more opportunities for women's college basketball to be on national tv, which means they're being subject to all of these pre game and post game and sideline interviews A lot of the time that is Holly Row, because ESPN is a broadcast partner of the ncaa. So I think just familiarity with that experience, you know, shows when they're on a big stage like the WNBA draft and have to go through this again. And I think it's pretty cool, like they all seemed, I mean, obviously very emotional. I thought that was just lovely, how much it meant to all of them. I think Nico Mule really, really kind of got to me. Even the videos that teams posted of their players who got drafted in the second and third rounds, and just watching them from home, we don't need to get into all of that. But I just. I loved how on the one hand, they appreciated what a big moment it was, but were also prepared for the stage in terms of, like, the professionalism.
- [18:02]
E
Absolutely, absolutely. And, yes, my nose got pinched a few times throughout the draft. I mean, I think Camila Cardoso's story, I mean, we did a wonderful, I think, wonderful job of portraying the depth to which she sacrificed for her family to get here and succeed in this space. But I think the rest of the world cannot fathom being 15 years old, coming to a country, learning a new language, learning a new sport, and then getting to this stage, getting drafted. Number three. She definitely was the one that pulled at the heartstrings for me, but every single time I saw fingernails go to the nose, I was like, oh, is my nose pitched? I don't know what's going on here. I am being tugged emotionally. No, they were. They were really, really poised for what a big moment it was overall. So now let's actually get into the draft. Before we actually do that, I'll say this shout out to Charisma Osbourne. She's the only one I saw that thanked Holly Roh and hugged her. That was really sweet. I was like, you know, she covered you your entire college career, and then, you know, get that little moment with her. So I thought that was really sweet. Now let's get into the lottery picks. Of course, in case you were unsure about what the end of Indiana Fever were going to do, they didn't surprise anyone. Went ahead and chose Caitlin Clark at number one just to, like, kind of set the scene of, like, what Caitlin Clark is about to receive. So Caitlin Clark is going to make a salary of $76,535 as a WNBA employee. If you didn't notice that Jake from State Farm was also at the draft, and she was dressed in full Prada. Yeah. Her endorsement dollars are going to be just fine. But of course, what else comes with being the number one draft pick? All of this attention around her, and I thought she handled it pretty well. Ben, when her name was called out, what was the feeling in the room? Knowing that everyone kind of expected it, but it still was the number one draft pick.
- [20:03]
F
Yeah, I mean, A lot of people stood up and cheered. As I mentioned, there were a lot of Iowa fans there. And I think it was just, you know, kind of the realization and the actualization of everything kind of coming to fruition that, okay, now it's go time for Caitlin Clark. Like now she is officially a member of the Indiana Fever. Now Indiana can stop putting out those, we'll call them poorly masked tweets alluding to Caitlin Clark's imminent arrival. And now they can just put out, you know, tweets and posts with Caitlin Clark actually featured in them and with Aaliyah Boston in them that like, no more playing games. Like we can, we can cut all that out. And so, you know, I think it was relieved. Caitlin Clark herself actually admitted to being a little bit anxious, a little bit nervous moments before Kathy Engelberg voiced the most predictable news of Monday night, which was her going with the number one pick. But again, Caitlin Clark said like she couldn't imagine a more perfect fit, a better place for her to start her professional career, an organization that believed in women's basketball, believes in women's basketball and just wants to do it the right way. So she seems certainly excited to get to Indiana. She flies out on Tuesday and you know, we'll go from there.
- [21:04]
E
I love that her statement of like, what can she offer the team the most? And like the most important was her passing because everyone talks about her shooting, but I agree it's definitely her passing and she was just like talking about how fun it's going to be to play with Aaliyah Boston. So she wasn't really like, of course she was the moment for the WNBA draft, but there were some really big moments in the subsequent picks. And of course we got a Los Angeles native on the pod. Sabrina La Sparks got some big time picks in Cameron Brink and Rekia Jackson at the number two and the number four spot. I mean not only did they come to slay, they looked amazing. But when you think about someone that's already pro ready in Rekia Jackson and then you think about the defense that can fill a hole like Neko Guimike in Cameron Brink. Very exciting to see the two of them paired up potentially. But what were your thoughts on LA's picks?
- [22:02]
G
I mean, as a pure homer, I, I actually like raised my arms and like fist bumped when they picked Ricky Jackson because I was so worried about what was going to happen. I think it's exactly what they should have done in those spots. Cameron Brinks best defensive player in the draft and did so many great Things at Stanford. In addition to that, in addition to being national defensive player of the year. Right. Like she had an awesome assist rate, great free throw shooter, good score around the basket, just does so many things. And you think about her being your foundation defensively. And then you bring in Rekia Jackson who every WNBA GM we talked to is just like, she's going to be able to score right away at the WNBA level. And so you've got one end of the court covered, the other end of the court covered. And you just look at LA's roster and it's, it's pretty guard heavy in terms of what they brought in in the off season. They lost neca obviously to free agency. Azari Stevens is going to miss the first half of the season with injury that she suffered overseas. So it's really Tierca Hamby in the front court. And as durable as Derek Gampy is, mind you, this woman played 40 games last season after giving birth to her second child. It's nice to have some other players who can pick up the minutes. So I think this is just a great development spot for Cameron Brink and Rikia Jackson. They're gonna compliment each other really well and they're gonna have the time to learn as the Sparks tank and get Paige Beckers next year.
- [23:13]
F
Hey.
- [23:15]
E
Thank you for that foresight. I appreciate that. I love Rekia Jackson's in post draft press conference saying like, you know, if somebody gets by me, I'm just gonna let Cameron Brinks swat their shot. So it's a good game plan. Good game plan, Rekia. But I think the duo that, you know, everyone was talking about, Caitlyn and Caitlin Clark teaming up with Leah Boston, who interviewed her on the orange carpet, which I thought was super cool. And then now, you know, the Cam Brink, Rekia Jackson situation. La. But man, Chi Town threw us for a loop putting Camila Cardoso and her arch nemesis in the sec, Angel Reese, together at the number three and number seven spots respectively. Now, they were beautifully amicable when it happened and they were just excited about, you know, playing up against each other. But like Ben, a little context as to how they met up with each other in the sec. Just like, what's their history for our audience?
- [24:14]
F
Yeah, I mean, they played in a very intense SEC championship game. That might be an understatement. SEC tournament final just a few weeks back that ended up with, you know, you know, the skirmish that led to, you know, both benches kind of being cleared. But it certainly seemed like on Monday night, like any kind of past animosity intensity, any rivalry, you know, they flipped the page very quickly right on that. I mean, angel talked about in her press conference, just being teammates with Camila is going to be amazing. They said that they had talked earlier and obviously angel was really praiseworthy about like Camila, the amazing run, the amazing college career she had. It was a kind of a cool moment in the room. Camila Cardoza was basically in her press conference at the time that Angel Reese was being selected. And so it was like right as that pick came in, we were able to get Camila's reaction or just shortly after learning about it. And Camilla also was very, you know, kind and warm to her new teammate. Just kind of saying that she's a great player and she had a great line that nobody is going to out rebound them, nobody is going to going to get no rebounds on us, was her direct quote.
- [25:19]
E
She did not lie.
- [25:21]
F
Absolutely. That's exactly. It seems like what the Chicago sky are banking on, that, you know, that they've just achieved and built, you know, their front court around these two players who are going to eat up the glass and dominate both ends. And, you know, we'll see how what it means for angel kind of playing alongside true five like Camila Cardozo. I think the question is, can she step out and shoot it in a way that will force force to come out and guard her and will allow Teresa Weatherspoon to play both at the same time. But you know, it seems like Chicago had the night that it wanted to have, having traded up for number eight to number seven and it got the two bigs that it hopes to build around going forward. So we'll see how all that shakes out.
- [25:57]
E
And it was cool because Don Staley talked about the fact that Camilo Cardoso has a mid range game that she hasn't really unlocked or unleashed just yet. She definitely anticipates Theresa Weatherspoon being able to unlock that. Now, she did not call out Teresa Rutherspoon or the GM of the Chicago Sky. She was expecting Camilla to go number two, but that's okay. She's just fine where she's at. And I want to talk about where she's at because that's the thing that fires me up the most. And Sabrina, I'd love for you to kind of give a little bit of history about Teresa Weatherspoon as a player and like her demeanor as a player that could help kind of feed into the types of players that both Camilla and Angel can be on the W level.
- [26:39]
G
So Teresa Weatherspoon is The inaugural WNBA Defensive Player of the Year in the debut season in 1997 with New York Liberty and just epitomized that defensive ethos all throughout her career. I mean, I think the most famous T spin memory is probably that half court shot she hid in WMA finals to force a decisive game. But really it's. It's the defense that she made her name with. And then she has like coaching resume in the NBA for a little bit. This is her first job in the wnba, so she'll be a rookie head coach at the same time as Camila Cardoso and Angel Reese are rookies. But I think Andrea Carter put it the best, like just her vibe, her energy, like she's the kind of coach you want to run through a wall for. And I think, you know, Angel Reese talked about how great it was to be coached by a black woman. And Camila Cardoso has the experience of being coached by a Hall of Famer, a black woman in Dawn Staley. And for them to be able to relate to her and understand her, and we've seen how important that is for Angel Reese to have a coach who believes in her. I think that's the ideal development foundation for both of them.
- [27:36]
F
And it goes even deeper than that. I think there's kind of an unbelievable coincidence, and it's really not that much of a coincidence here about Angel Reese now being coached by Teresa Weatherspoon. And that is that T. Spoon went to Louisiana Tech and was the point guard there following Kim Mulkey's tenure there at Louisiana Tech. And actually Mulkey, you know, was an assistant coach, the lady texter staff when Teaspoon was still playing. And so there's a lot of familiarity there between Kim Mulkey, Teaspoon and now Angel Reese. There's kind of a nice lineage that has been formed. And Angel Reese said it in her press conference that, you know, talking to Teaspoon felt like talking like a mother to me was the phrase she used. And, you know, it is kind of fitting. And, you know that familiarity is important, right? That it seems like she's getting put into an environment where she will feel comfortable or already feels comfortable. And, you know, that certainly sets her up to have success long term.
- [28:27]
E
Oh, I love that. I did not know that at all. I just think that beyond that familiarity, that family that's set up, there's a familiarity in terms of being a fiery black woman that Teaspoon definitely had within her playing time and as an identity and even as a coach. And I'll still remember even as the New York Liberty were making their run, how many people were cheering for them to win the championship for Teaspoon. Right. People wanted them to win for her, and now it's. She's got an opportunity to do it for herself in Chicago. Okay, I'm excited. Chi town's about to get rowdy. It's gonna be fun out there. Okay, now let's talk about the team that was laying low after winning back to back championships and then just casually snuck into the draft, picked up three, six solid players and then snuck right back out. And that is the Las Vegas Aces. They picked up with Deja Fair, Elizabeth Kitley and Kate Martin, who was in the stands just cheering on Caitlin Clark and gets picked in the second round of the WNBA draft. Unreal. Unreal. I'm so like blown by the Aces getting what they wanted. So the Las Vegas Aces ended up getting deja Fair at 16, Kate Martin at 18, and Elizabeth Ketley at 24. I personally want to start with Elizabeth Ketley. I felt so bad that she had to go to the draft in her like, you know, her crutches and you know, while everyone gets to be all dressed up and she's like crutching around, it's like, oh, I know this is not what she envisioned for her draft night, but she kept a positive attitude about it. Gets to be a steal in the second round for the Las Vegas Aces and then she's going to be a draft and stash because she's hurt. And as she stashed, she gets to learn from the likes of a. Potentially learn from the likes of Asia, Candace Parker and the entirety of the Vegas team. Out of all three of these players, I like to ask both of you, which one do you think is the biggest deal in the second draft?
- [30:35]
G
I would say Elizabeth Keatley. I just think she has a very clear role in the wnba, even if it is a league that's becoming a little bit more pace and space and you don't necessarily need a back to the basket center. I think Elizabeth Keatley just has a lot of craft in her game. She plays pick and roll really well. She's got a good mid range, you know, game, she can move her feet better than you think on defense and she's just huge. So that helps in terms of defending the rim. Obviously they can't use her for a year, but it's not like the Aces can roster a ton of players, you know, who they draft this season. So it almost behooves them to wait out a year. Like maybe Candace Parker has retired by then and there's a roster spot that comes up for Kitley. I mean, she's a three time ACC player of the year, right? And she was available at the end of the second round. I just think it's very clear that she has a lot of talent and I don't know how much higher she would have gone, honestly, if she hadn't been injured. But I think this is just a fantastic position for her to end up in. You know, she's going to be able to be in like the best possible development situation in terms of the facilities that the Aces have. And just they can support her rehab probably better than almost anybody else in the wnba. They have players who have gone through this before. Like Kelsey Plumb missed a season with the torn Achilles. Chelsea Gray missed the start of her WNBA career with a knee injury. Just it's a lot of experience to learn from and I think it's just a perfect landing spot.
- [31:47]
E
It was cool to see that Chelsea Gray had reached out to Elizabeth Ketley before the draft. And you know, Sabrina and you and I were just talking right before we recorded, like Chelsea Gray didn't know that they were going to choose Elizabeth Kitley. Like that was done out of the goodness of her heart, knowing the experience and, you know, being able to be empathetic and sympathetic to the situation. Ben, what are your thoughts?
- [32:07]
F
Well, I have two ASUS thoughts. One, I think we should acknowledge the Shea Serrano tweet that Sabrina sent me mid draft. And I think it really sums up, you know, it's a good reminder. I'll say the tweet in a second for what draft night is because potential is so appealing and we can, you know, think about all these what ifs and players blossoming, but the goal of all this is to win a championship. And so what Chase Serrano did was genius, is he took a. He took a photo of Becky Hammond who was pointing at a notebook and he wrote with a fake caption. Okay, so I see right here that we still have Asia Wilson on the roster. So we're good to go. Great work, everyone. See you at the start of the season. And it's a great reminder for all of us in this podcast writing these stories that, you know, they have Asia Wilson, they have Chelsea Gray, Jackie Young, Kelsey Plum. The Aces are still the team to beat. We should acknowledge that right off the bat. I want to talk about Da Jafar, the NCAA third all time leading scorer. She obviously had a great college career. And you know, she kind of time and time again proved the doubter she had wrong, was relentless in her work ethic and really developed her game. She was, I think, the only prospect, and I don't have this one confirmed, this little note, but I think it's fair to say she actually got a workout in on Sunday night on the eve of the draft, getting more shots up, working on her game. Super impressive and, you know, just speaks to the work ethic that she has in going to the Aces and we'll see, you know, if she will end up making this team. It was also a full circle moment for Deja Fair, and she said that, you know, she was nominated for the Becky Hammond mid major award three years while she was at Buffalo. She did not win it at that time, but, you know, it kind of did bring things a little bit fuller circle that she'll be able to now learn under Becky Hammond, the Aces coach, at least during training camp. And we'll see, you know, if she makes this team and you know, what her WNBA career looks like. But certainly the Aces, plenty of worse places to learn from in that backcourt behind Gray and plum.
- [33:56]
E
I mean, five five, standing at five five and averaging 22 points, five rebounds a game, and unreal. And she was also, to me, the most thoughtful and poised in her responses with Holly. She. She seemed as if even, I'm sure there were so many emotions welling in her. She seemed the most composed in her interview and in the whole moment. And it reminded me of her younger players at Syracuse talking about how much they've learned from Deja Fair over the course of her time. And I felt like I could learn from her the way that she stood there in that moment. Now there was this person that was in the stands, Kate Martin. What the hell was that? I was so confused. Like, was she. Was. Was she invited? Like, someone's gotta explain it to me. I do not get it. What happened?
- [34:46]
G
So it's interesting. After the first round, Kathy Engelbert only announces the picks when the player is in attendance. So they invite 15 players to be in the green room. And because they were kind of internationals in the first round, you still had about, you know, four to five, I think maybe six players left after the first round. So she would come up, like when it was Nica Mule's time to get picked or, you know, when Celeste Taylor got picked. And then she comes up for that pick and you're thinking, oh, it's got to be Elizabeth Kately or Charisma Osborne. They're the only ones Left on the list. But then all the cameras are surrounding the Iowa row of, you know, Kate Martin, Gabby Marshall, Cheetah gyamphy, and Connor McCaffrey too. Right. Who had his seat in that Iowa row. And yeah, they just, they picked Kate Martin at number 18, which I think is just first of all, hilarious that Asia Wilson already is talking trash to her new potential teammate on Twitter about the South Carolina Iowa title game that Asia did not play in. So I feel like that's a little tough for Kate Martin.
- [35:36]
E
Right.
- [35:36]
G
But, you know, she's captain of the Iowa team for the last couple years, glue player, does everything you need. It's kind of the ideal role. If you're the Aces, you want to fill in because you have all of your star talent. Let's be clear, you don't need enough Kelsey Blomber, Jackie Young, or Asia Wilson. So if you can just have a player who amplifies them, fills in all the little gaps, makes a lot of sense if she ends up doing well in training camp.
- [35:58]
F
And one more small note connection there. The Aces signed Megan Gustafson, who was Iowa's all time leading score this past offseason. So you have a little bit of an Iowa, Iowa reunion with Kate Martin and Megan Gustafson now both in Las Vegas.
- [36:11]
E
Look at that. Wow. I was so. I was like, so confused as to what was happening. I'll tell you what, when she got called and she gets up and she starts hugging everybody on the row, I was like, now, Kate, listen, we weren't expecting you to get called right now. Don't take up all of this camera time going down the entire row in this hall. But no, it was really cool. There was a tweet I saw. I can't remember who said it, but I loved it because it was so true. It was like Kate Martin showed up because she's not a hater to support her teammate and got blessed. Learn the lesson, folks. Learned the lesson. And I was like, amen. Shout out to Kate. Also going to be trying out for the Aces. Shout out to them. Those are. Those are three solid picks. And when you think about the fact that the Aces eventually, eventually will have to re up, that's a, you know, that's a pretty solid group to look at. All right, Biggest steel surprises for you guys. I'll tell you mine. I'll just go ahead. Jalen Sherrod not being in any of the top three rounds, not being drafted. She got invited to a training camp to the Aces. That was very surprising to me.
- [37:19]
F
Ben, one of the fits that I really like. I don't know if it's a surprise necessarily, but Nika Mule, I thought, you know, is one of the players who stood out to me. She's in a spot with Seattle. You know, she could go in there and really make an impact. If she does, in fact, make that team, I think that could go down as one of the biggest deals. And she got a great ovation as her name was called out from Kathy Engelbert and she got a great ovation from the fans in attendance. Obviously, you know, her stock really rose throughout the NCAA tournament and she played some great defense. And you know, that is another team like Jewel Lloyd, you know, Skylar Diggins, Smith, like, if she's gonna be hound them in practice. Nico Mule, if nothing else during training camp and you know, she is set up to learn a lot. And potentially again, Noel Quinn, a guard herself. Nico Mule set up there to learn a lot and could be a really, really good spot for her. So I think that is a steal and a really good fit. And Seattle, I think overall did pretty well considering where they were drafting from all night long.
- [38:13]
G
Yeah, the UConn point guards work out pretty well for Seattle.
- [38:17]
E
I was just going to say if, if for anything, I want Nica Mule to make that team so that she can be the next subert. I mean, it's just too good. It's too good. Number 10 from UConn. Like the storyline is there, folks. Make it happen. It just would be too beautiful. Sabrina, biggest steal surprise for you.
- [38:34]
G
I will say that the Mystics drafting a Belgian player in the third round was just. Was just perfect given their affinity for Belgian players in the past. Emma Messman, obviously, Kim Messdog has spent some time in Washington, so that was. That was fun to see, I thought, you know, like Ben alluded to, I thought Nica Mule was just an excellent pick at that point. But I really have my eyes on Phoenix's draft because they only had two third round picks. But this is a team that has six players under protected veteran contracts and then all training camp deals. So there is a lot of room to potentially make the roster if you're in Phoenix. And yeah, you know, these are players who were available in the third round, but the Mercury rostered Caddy Sissoko last year and she was drafted in the third round. So it's not like they're not amenable to drafting players who are available at that spot because charisma Osborne, she was mocked in the first round of a lot of drafts. I say that as someone who did mock her in the first round of my draft, like she fifth year senior is going to come in physically ready to go, you know, has some familiarity with, with the Phoenix Mercury staff. Obviously they drafted Jaz Shelley, who is of Australian descent. They just added a Australian national to their front office staff. So I think just looking at Charisma Osborne and Jazz Shelley, yeah, maybe this is lower than they were hoping to be drafted. But a lot of this is just about opportunity and there are six givens on Phoenix and really nothing else beyond that. So it's a pretty cool place to find yourself compared to like let's say Dallas, where even if you're drafted in the second round, it's going to a lot harder to make that final 12 or final 11 than it will be in Phoenix.
- [39:57]
E
Okay, now on that point, making the final 12, what do you believe these rookies have to do in general? From what you know about what GMs are looking for, what coaches are assessing, what do rookies need to do in order to stand out and make it onto a roster?
- [40:16]
G
I mean, I think it kind of depends on each particular roster. Right. Like I'm looking at Chicago and I didn't really answer your question earlier, but one of the surprises I thought was Brenda Maxwell going at number 13. It was a lot higher than I thought she was going to go, but she's just an ace shooter. And what do you need when you have Camila Cardoso and Angel Reese in the front court? You need some shooting around that, right. So maybe that's, you know, a little bit higher than her draft stock would have suggested. But that fit makes so much sense around the direction of what they're, you know, going for. So it really depends on every particular front office. Like Chicago's going to need some spacing because they have these front court anchors. Other teams, if you're looking at a veteran team, maybe they just need to play really solid defense during training camp and show, like Ben said, that you can get into the grill of their best players and make them work harder in practice. Right. For another team, maybe they need someone who's going to rebound the ball. Well, like it. Every team goes into training camp. Every team comes into the season with a different set of skills that they're deficient on, you know, in any particular way. So I think it's just showing an impact in one particular thing really goes a long way in training camp.
- [41:14]
F
And you see a lot of teams drafting on Monday night based on what their roster looks like. I mean, think about the Dallas Wings, for instance, they take Carlote at number nine. You know, I don't think she's going to come over and play in the WNBA this year. I think she's already made clear, is that right, Sabrina? That she is not going to play in the W this year. And so that is a, you know, a long term play for the Dallas Wings. It's not something, you know, she won't be competing for a roster spot this year. I mean, I look at the Atlanta Dream, for instance, they took three international players. You know, that's something near and dear to my heart as a fan of international basketball. Congratulations to Fenaire on your back to back Euroleague women championships this weekend. Sabrina, I know we're watching that one very closely too. But the Atlanta Dream taken three international players, you know, it's hard to imagine all three are going to come over this year. And I should say also I picked three international players to go in the first round of the draft. That was my bold prediction and it came true.
- [42:09]
E
So there you go.
- [42:10]
G
My bold prediction went terribly.
- [42:14]
F
But you know, it's something to consider as you look at these draft picks like and especially at the second round, you know, there is kind of a harsh reality in the WNBA that a lot of these teams are going to only going to have 11 players on their roster on opening night. So it is really hard to make a team. One thing that should be noted is in an Olympic year like this, you know, there is opportunity potentially for more players to get in the system and then also carve out little hardship roles during the year depending on rust injuries. Obviously we're not wishing that upon anyone, but if they do happen, you know, being in a camp could be super valuable. So I think a lot of players we see picked tonight will actually play in the WNBA this year. The question is how many will make it on, you know, game one. I think that remains to be seen.
- [42:55]
E
Obviously as someone that covers the Warriors. I know that on the NBA side a lot of NBA teams do these like kind of evaluations, personality wise psychological evaluations, making sure that they're good people and teamwork. Is that something that you also see in the W?
- [43:11]
F
Absolutely. I mean, I think scouting is a holistic enterprise. And you, you know, one of the things you hear from some GMs, I think Lynn Dunn even came on this podcast and talked about it in terms of her own scouting approaches, how much she values like going to a practice and just seeing like what a player looks like in practice, how they interact with their teammates, not when the bright Lights are on. And, you know, I think that is something that is one of her beliefs, but she's not alone in, you know, that being important. And I think that is, you know, a little bit of a tell. The process with the WNBA and college is a little bit different, though, than the NBA draft in that you don't have this long run up from the end of the men's college basketball season into the draft in June. I mean, these players, as we've talked about whirlwind weeks for Caitlin Clark, eight days ago, she's playing in a championship game. Camila Cardoza is playing in a championship game. She's at a victory parade over the weekend, and suddenly she's, you know, onto the next thing, onto her next city giving a press conference about the future. So it is a very different timeline, but that doesn't mean that, you know, some of the same evaluative measures aren't also applied in the WNBA context.
- [44:08]
E
Okay, well, now the selections have been made, the training camp offers and contracts are out, and now it's time to get to maybe and the ramp up to the first preseason games. What, Sabrina, do those next steps look like?
- [44:27]
G
Well, a lot of it is just logistic. You know, as Ben was saying, Caitlyn flies to Indiana tomorrow. You have to set up, find a place to live. Right? Teams often provide summer housing for their players, but, you know, it's just a matter of, like, do you want to live there? You got to get all your stuff into the new city. You got to get a new car. Like, it's a whole situation to move, right? Nobody likes moving. And this has to be done within 13 weeks. And oftentimes it's across the country, right? Like Angel Reese is moving from Baton Rouge to Chicago, or Kia Jackson's moving from Knoxville to Los Angeles. Like, these are big changes that are happening. So a lot of it's just logistics. And then, you know, luckily they're still in shape, most of them, because they have been playing within the last couple weeks, because you get right into it, right? There's a couple weeks of training camp, few preseason games, not a ton of time to make an impression. So it has to to come quick.
- [45:12]
E
Okay? So I appreciate you guys kind of breaking down what the next steps are. It seems insane. So shout out to those young women having to make that transition. But I know this is their dream, so that's awesome for them. And I'm really, really excited for every single one of the girls that were called tonight and them going to the next step before we Wrap up. I wanted to get your last thoughts on draft night because it was a crazy night. I'll say my. For me, there were three things that stood out that were really cool. Number one, I don't know if this has always happened, but I did love to see how much the NBA handles were supporting the draft. Whether it was the Indiana Pacers making a dedicated draft post to Caitlin Clark or just NBA on TNT and NBA TV in general and all these other outlets that are typically not focused on women's basketball putting their attention and amplifying the conversation. I thought that was cool. Two, Talking about amplification, that Indiana watch party was insane. It was insane. I don't know if I've ever seen an Indiana game that packed. It's gonna look like that this season, but that was pretty cool. And I guess all of this is about Indiana, but that little commercial that they created of the figurine, the Caitlin Clark figurine is so cool. I'm like, oh, shout out to Indiana. They got a little bit of budget, making some really cool content. I'm very excited for. For how much this season is gonna be elevated in terms of the support from people and outlets outside of the W Amplify, like, amplifying that conversation, the support of the fans within it. And then, of course, just like the glamorization of the players beyond just athletes. That's really cool. Sabrina.
- [46:48]
G
Just from watching on TV, I really enjoyed Paige Becker's energy, especially when the UConn players were drafted. Just full.
- [46:55]
E
Yes.
- [46:58]
G
Just full Amy Poehler, mean girls type things. It was very fun to watch her every time the camera turned to her. And then I don't know how it was in the building, but it was interesting to me that, like, as the broadcast was going, it clearly was being broadcast live in the theater as well. So everybody could hear what, like, Ryan and Rebecca. Andrea were saying. Andrea, like, jokingly poked fun at that when they were talking about Caitlyn. She's like. And she has to listen to us talk about her this whole time. But I thought it was very strange right before D'Asia Fair was picked and Rebecca Lobo was saying, you know, I talked to Becky Hammond prior to the draft and she said she would love to pick Deja Fair if she was available at 16. But she didn't think she would be, but it would be a great spot because she's another little guard. And I'm thinking, like, they must know that Vegas is drafting DJ Affair, because otherwise she is listening to them talk about this and it would Be supremely awkward if it didn't go this way.
- [47:47]
E
Oh, I never. I didn't even.
- [47:48]
G
But then it was also super anticlimactic when Kathy Engelberg got up there and said with the 16th fake, the Las Vegas Aces Select Deja Bear, because Rebecca had basically just made the announcement. So that was weird. Just one note from the trap broadcast.
- [48:02]
E
No, that is weird. We can focus on Paige Becker's giving. You're doing great, sweetie. Energy. That was great. That was great. Ben, you were there. Last notes.
- [48:12]
F
I was gonna close also with a Paige Becker's note, coincidentally, because I didn't see those television broadcast views. But I did have a unique vantage point for the first pick. Caitlin Clark. Basically, Paige Becker's an easy fud. And Caroline Ducharme, too. They waited about, we'll call it five, maybe eight minutes in the lead up to the first selection being made to be, you know, find their seats in the auditorium. It maybe someone was in their seats. That was a little bit unclear. And in that period of time, they had some fans coming up to them, asking for selfies, signing autographs, and they're just standing there kind of waiting to be ushered to their seat. In the end, Paige and Az sat about two rows in front of me at the very back of the theater as Caitlin Clark was being announced. And it was just hard not to think about this moment a year from now and how that could be. Paige Becker's potentially walking up on that stage, you know, going from the third to last row of the BAM Auditorium Theater to one of those early tables, walking up the stage right away, shaking Kathy's hand and being the number one pick in the 2025 WNBA Draft. I think it is certainly one thing that could happen if she has a really productive year in college like she did this year. I will not be moving up from the back of the theater into one of those tables and walking and shaking any commissioner's hand on draft night. But as we learned tonight, I think it's a safe bet that I will be back on the orange carpet next year. Xena. And I look forward to your analysis of that as well for when that moment does happen.
- [49:45]
E
Get those questions ready. I love it. I can't wait, Ben. Oh, I can't wait. I know. It's just gonna be absolutely ETV worthy. All right, folks, we gotta close this out. This was all of our reaction to the wnba. And by the way, if you're an Indiana fan and you're looking for. For a Caitlin Clark jersey, the Athletic just reported Caitlin Clark's Indiana jersey is sold out in almost every size except for small.
- [50:09]
G
So keep that in mind if you are a small.
- [50:12]
E
Yeah, there you go. If you're a small body, maybe you can fit into it. Yeah, unfortunate for you, but yes. This is the energy folks. This is the energy going to the wnba. You gotta get on board because man, everyone else is and the room is getting smaller and it's getting as cramped as that orange carpet was with Ben today. All right folks, we appreciate you listening once again. Make sure to subscribe to this pod wherever you get your pods so you stay up to date with us cuz it's W season. But on behalf of Ben, on behalf of Sabrina, appreciate you listening and tuning in and encourage you to keep listening, keep learning the game and keep loving the game cuz that's the only way we're going to keep growing it. All right till next time.
- [51:00]
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G
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F
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E
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F
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E
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F
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E
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Zena Kaeda
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F
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F
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