← No Offseason: The Athletic Women's Basketball Show
No Offseason: The Athletic Women's Basketball Show
WNBA Playoffs Recap, Previews And Predictions
00:45:51
Loading summary
Transcript86 lines
- [00:00]
Zena Keda
When I started podcasting, it felt like I had to figure everything out myself. Booking guests, figuring out rundowns, editing the show and publishing it. It seemed like the list of to do's got bigger and bigger and when you're starting off with something new, it seems like that just happens. Finding the right tool that not only helps you out, but simplifies everything can be such a game changer. And for millions of businesses, that tool is Shopify. Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world and 10% of all e commerce in the US from household name like Mattel and Gymshark to brands just getting started. Get started with your own design studio. With hundreds of ready to use templates, Shopify helps you build a beautiful online store to match your brand style, accelerate your content creation. Shopify is packed with helpful AI tools that write product descriptions, page headlines and even enhance your product photography. Get the word out like you have a marketing team behind you. Easily create email and social media campaigns wherever your customers are scrolling or strolling. And best yet, Shopify is your commerce expert with world class expertise in everything from managing inventory to international shipping to processing returns and beyond. If you're ready to sell, you're ready for Shopify. Turn your big business idea into a With Shopify on your side, sign up for your $1 per month trial and start selling today at shopify.com TheAthletic go to shopify.com TheAThletic shopify.com TheAthLetic.
- [01:33]
Sabrina Merchant
Love looks different for everyone, especially when it comes to all the ways you treat and celebrate yourself. I'm a big hammock head. Sunshine a hammock, A paperback western. That's my kind of everyday indulgence. And you can gift yourself the everyday indulgence of extraordinary hydration with Liquid IV powered by Liv Hydro Science. Visit LiquidIV.com to fall in love with flavors like the zesty new hydration multiplier Sugar free Raspberry Lemonade and use code no dunks to save 20% off your first order. Liquid IV is easy and convenient. You just tear, pour and enjoy. It's my go to when I'm getting a pump in or handing out buckets, but it's great for staying hydrated during long days, enjoying the outdoors or any other time you need some hydration in your body. Liquid IV offers so many true to fruit flavors, whether they be hydration multipliers like acai berry, lemon, lime and pina colada or sugar free like Raspberry lemonade, White, peach and rainbow. Sherbet the flavors are always true to fruit. Break the mold and your own ritual. Just one stick and 16 ounces of water hydrates better than water alone because Liquid IV is is powered by LIV hydroscience, an optimized ratio of electrolytes, essential vitamins and clinically tested nutrients that turn ordinary water into extraordinary hydration. You're getting three times the electrolytes of the leading sports drink, plus eight essential vitamins and nutrients. And Liquid IV is always non gmo, vegan, gluten free, dairy free and soy free. So treat yourself to extraordinary hydration from Liquid IV. Get 20% off your first order at Liquid IV when you go to liquidib.com and use code no dunks at checkout. That's 20% off your first order with code nodunks@liquidiv.com Summer is almost here and.
- [03:35]
Ben Pickman
There'S no better place to go for outside furniture than Wayfair. Wayfair's huge selection of outdoor essentials will help you make your outdoor space more comfortable, functional and most importantly, more you. Get your outdoor space rated today so you can enjoy it all season long. When you have kids, they love to be outside, so you gotta be out.
- [03:56]
E
There to watch them.
- [03:56]
Ben Pickman
From Wayfair, you can have outdoor sofas, maybe a set of chairs, a gazebo, some umbrellas because it's really hot down here in the South. No matter the need, Wayfair's huge selection of home items makes it easy to find exactly what's right for you. There's something for every style and every home, no matter your space or budget. Wayfair makes it easy to tackle your summer home goals with endless inspiration for every space and budget, including the outdoors. Free and easy delivery even on the big stuff. No more huge delivery fees for patio furniture. Get big stuff like patio sets, gazebos, hot tubs, outdoor dining sets and more shipped free. Find all your outdoor must haves from seating to pool lounges to trampolines all in one convenient place. Shop a huge, huge selection of outdoor furniture online this summer. Get outside with wayfair. Head to wayfair.com right now. That's W A Y F A I R.com wayfair every style every home.
- [05:09]
E
For the Athletic I'm Zena Keda and this is the Athletic Women's Basketball show presented by Michelob Ultra. Welcome back everyone to the Athletic Women's Basketball Show. I've got Ben Pickman and Sabrina Merchant, national WNBA writers, joining me again today to talk about the WNBA playoffs. We've so far seen one series closeout between the Las Vegas Aces and the Chicago Sky. Another. Another series tie up, which I know some people were not expecting. But yes, tied up. We'll talk about that. The Connecticut sun versus the Minnesota Lynx. And then there's another series that is going to play again at the time that we're recording this tomorrow night on Tuesday night. And that is the Dream and Wings and then as well as the Washington Mystics and the New York Liberty. I am excited because there has been a lot of exciting gameplay between these teams. Let's start off with the easy series. I guess you could say it wasn't easy to get it done, but the Las Vegas Aces definitely did what they needed to do in order to move on to the semifinals, beating the Chicago sky for the second time this time around, 92 to 70. This game wasn't as clean as everyone would have imagined it to be, other than for Asia Wilson. Asia Wilson did what she was supposed to do. She went MVP mode, 38 points, a career high for her. Three steals, three blocks were in the just the first quarter. She actually ended up with 16 rebounds, four blocks and three steals. Yeah, she was chilling. She was chilling all the way into the fourth quarter. We'll talk about that. But Sabrina, I want to ask you, what did you take away from this win? They decidedly, decidedly closed out this first round. Were you impressed with the Aces?
- [07:06]
F
I mean, I think the Aces did exactly what they needed to do, right? They won in two games, which is what you have to do as a top seed, and they won convincingly. I know that the margin got a little bit close in that end of the third, early fourth quarter with the Chicago sky, but that was just a function of Becky Hammond getting some of her bench players in. I don't think that was anything to really worry about when it comes to the Las Vegas Aces perspective, their stars look great. More importantly, their defense looked phenomenal. Like the Aces, they had the number one defense over the course of the regular season. But that did take some slippage once Candace Parker went out in July. And I think what they wanted to get back to more than anything was just that really solid defensive identity. They get to play out of their defense, create turnovers, score on the break. Nobody runs the floor better than Asia Wilson. Nobody passes better in transition than Chelsea Gray. Nobody hits a pull up three in transition better than Shaquille. So just to get back to that pace, that flow, even if their offense wasn't exactly cooking in the half court, they have Asia Wilson. They have the ability to get stops and turn up Their defense whenever they need to. I think that's what you wanted to see if you were looking for the Aces to eventually repeat. Obviously, two more series to go, but, yeah, I don't think there's really any cause for concern. I think this is. This is what a number one seed is supposed to look like, right? Two years of being the number one seed in the playoffs in this new format, they've played four games. They've won those four games by combined 103 points. So that's a margin of victory of at least 25 per game. I mean, that's. That's just excellence. That's like. That is what. What is supposed to happen.
- [08:33]
E
I. I think the thing that excites me the most about the Aces is that in the midst of them doing phenomenal work from a team perspective, playing amazing team defense, playing amazing team offense, passing the ball, fundamentals are on point. They're having fun. I mean, I love that one play. Chelsea Gray passing in transition. Asia Wilson getting that bucket and just getting pumped up in the middle of the half court, right? It's just like that's what you want to see. You want to see a team doing. And I think that that also gives them an edge. When you go out there and they just feel like they're not really playing playoff basketball. This is for them what the regular season looked like. It probably is what their practices look like. They just have fun out there, and they really, really click. When I look at this team and I look at the fact that they were winning decidedly up 20 points when Kelsey hit that shot, I'm wondering, why aren't these players resting, getting ready for Sunday's game? Because no matter who wins Tuesday night between Dallas and Atlanta, the Aces are playing on Sunday. Why aren't they resting them or Becky Hammond resting her star players or starters going into the fourth quarter?
- [09:38]
G
I think this was a conversation that, honestly, we had a lot last year during the playoffs, right, about their bench depth and, you know, their lack thereof. It turned out not to be a big deal last year in the playoffs and who knows about this year? And I think, you know, we certainly talk about on this show, like depth as it relates to the New York Liberty and how that might end up being a problem for the Las Vegas Aces. But in the first round, I think the thing that, you know, not just someone like Becky Hammond and the Aces have dealt with, but other teams, too, is just the gap between games kind of allows them to rest their, you know, rest in between games and not have to rest during the games themselves. Right. You know, Las Vegas, they handle their business as Sabrina. And you said, xena, they now don't have to play till Sunday. And so, you know, in the grand scheme of things, what is the difference between playing 36, 37 minutes or 35 minutes in that closeout game versus 28, 29, 30. Like, again, I'm not the one doing the work, so I don't really know the physical difference, obviously, but we've certainly seen during this year, like, you know, Becky Hammond has cut back on their minute totals fully, but she's even talked a lot about, like, how her team doesn't know how to punt games. Right. She said that at one point, like Kelsey Blum ted her and was like, I really don't actually know what punting a game means. Before the New York Liberty game, Becky Hammond said before they played the Liberty back in the end of August that, you know, she was thinking about resting her starters that game and they pushed back against that. And not that you would ever rest your starters more in a playoff game, but I think it's the kind of thing with the gap between games. They're just going to let their players ride. And this game wasn't that close. It was a closeout series. They have plenty of time to recover. They were at home in these first two games. They're going to open the next round at home, so there's not a travel concern. So it's just close the series out. You know, play them in a rhythm, play them as much as you need and, you know, live to rest a few days and recover in between. I think that's kind of the rest question. It will be interesting, though, down the road if some of those things changes when the schedule changes a little bit.
- [11:29]
E
Yeah, for sure. I want them to rest. I think about, you know, the fact that Asia Wilson was hurt in the or lightly hurt, I believe in the fourth quarter, there was like a hit to her face, hit her eye. Sabrina, do you know what happened with that injury? Is she okay?
- [11:43]
F
As far as I know, Asia Wilson is indestructible and will have no issues going forward in game one of the next series.
- [11:49]
E
There you go. All right. Well, that was that series closing up aces doing what they're supposed to do on the other side of the country. Connecticut sun did not do what they were supposed to do, and that was beat the Links in two. And now they have the very tough task of going into what inevitably will be a packed Target center in Minneapolis and having to face the Minnesota Links in A game three, the Minnesota Links did exactly what they needed to do. Nafisa Collier, Kayla McBride combined for 54 points. McBride playing 40 minutes. Nafeesa Collier playing 38 only because she had to take two minutes out because she hurt her lower back. As a person who struggles and suffers from lower back issues, Nafeesa, your queen. I don't know how you did it, but my God showed up, balled out, took care of business and forced a game three. Now before we get into the details of that game, I want to ask you all. I think it's such an interesting concept. Of course it's better than a one game and out, right? One game and out. I can't imagine if you're the number three seed in Connecticut sun and you've got one game to play against the Minnesota Links, a number six seed and that could be the end of your season depending on that outcome. So it is better to have three games. Sure. But to think that that third game is in the lower seeds home court, knowing how important WNBA fans are in terms of playing that sixth player. Ben, I'll start with you. This two one layout, two games at home and then if you force a game three, you have to go now to the lower seeds home. What are your thoughts on that?
- [13:31]
G
I think it's pretty complicated. I mean, I think the 111 is something that I think everyone would say is a better solution. You know, I just came from Liberty practice earlier on Monday. Sandy Brondella was asked about it and she said, yeah, like, yes, I like the one one one and I think a lot of people would too. But that's not my decision, not my call. I'm interested, you know, in a couple years when the CBA comes up and WNBA travel potentially changes a little bit. Does the playoff format also change with it? You know, if there's charter flights for every round or for every game, you know, is it easier or does the cost of an extra flight, an extra leg of travel for each of these teams, if it is becomes lesser then does the format go to 11 1? You know, I think that's an open question. I think that's something that, you know, I'm watching for. I do think, you know, the two one is certainly better in my mind than the single elimination playoff, you know, right. Playing 40 games or playing, you know, mid 30 games. I like the, the series is better than the single elimination. You know, there were some times I believe in earlier in the WNBA's history also they did a one two format and I think that would be super interesting nowadays. I think it would be really weird to see, like the Las Vegas Aces said, a, you know, win 30 some odd games and then have to go on the road to open the playoffs. Right now, of course, they would have the elimination game at their home, and I think they would take that over having to play it on the road. So I don't necessarily think that is a better solution, but I do think, you know, there is a heightened awareness that comes from the game ones, and some players have talked about that in recent days that, you know, you recognize if you're the home team, you have to handle your business in game one or else you really, you know, put your back up against the wall really, really quickly and. And it's a tough task to come back from. I don't know. Sabrina, what do you think on that?
- [15:19]
F
So I'm with you, Ben, that the 2:1 is definitely better than the single elimination. Because, you know, like Zena was alluding to, you get 34 or 36 games now, 40 games a season, and all of a sudden it's all undone because of one hot shooting night. You know, in a potential single elimination, like, that's really tough to have to deal with. I mean, you look at the links, like, the last time they were in the playoffs in 2021, they were the overall number three seed. They lost in single elimination, and voila, your entire season's work has gone up in flames because of one game. So I. I like the idea that you get a full series, you know, to at least show what you were capable of, you know, over the course of the regular season. I don't really have a problem with the elimination game being on the road side because, like, you still get the two home games and you get them first. And so if you do your job as the, you know, the favored team, there's. There's no issue, right? Like Las Vegas, they're sitting pretty. They just don't have to go anywhere for the next week. Right? Like, that's what you're supposed to do as a top team. And so I just, I don't. I'm not trying to say I don't have, like, sympathy for the Connecticut sun, but, like, the Connecticut sun had an opportunity to win games at Mohegan Sun. Like, you know, I don't know if any of you guys listen to Haley Jones's podcast sometimes I hoop. But she asks every player what the toughest place to play in the league is, and 90% of these players say Mohegan Sun, Connecticut, and so if Connecticut couldn't take care of their own home court advantage, like, I just, I'm not like shedding any tears for them. Like, they weren't able to take care of their responsibility. And so the only issue that I have is that I don't love the one one one, because even with Charter, like, it's just a lot to go back and forth. And when the WNBA has a more compressed postseason like it does during a World cup year, for example, like last year's postseason, the games were a lot more squished together. This year, the postseason is so spread out. So if you're going to have this much time between games, like a four day, three day gap between games, then I think a one one one makes a lot more sense because you do have the ability to go to another city and relocate. Like, it's, it's one thing when we're talking about Connecticut and Minnesota, like, if Connecticut were playing Seattle, I think we'd be having a different conversation, right? Like, that's an awful different travel situation because the WNBA doesn't sort by conferences. You're opening yourself up to that possibility every year. So I understand why, you know, the two one was instituted, and I get it. And like, because it gives the top seat, I really believe more of an advantage than a one one, one would. I don't know, I just think, like, win your games, you know, like, do.
- [17:37]
E
What you're supposed to do. I could tell Sabrina is going to be a tough coach if she's like, do your job. All right? People, they've set you up for success. Just do your job. And it's true that that's really what it feels like when you, when people talk about, well, you had one job to do and that was to win at home. And if you didn't do it, then that's on you, and now you have to go road. It does seem interesting. The concept of, you know, bringing more teams into the league will hopefully eliminate this. Bringing charter flights could hopefully eliminate this. But as for now, do your job, folks. Sabrina Merchant is telling you to do your job.
- [18:09]
G
The one other thing I think is interesting is we haven't actually seen like a higher seed fall yet, Right. I wonder if the discourse from players, from coaches changes or becomes more heightened. If, you know, if, and we won't see it this year, the Las Vegas Aces, if they would have lost somehow or if the Liberty lose the next two games, does the conversation change a little bit? Right. Last year when this was instituted, Chicago lost, I think, was it game one.
- [18:34]
F
They lost game one.
- [18:35]
G
I think it was game one against the New York Liberty. They cruised in game two, I think by 30 points or 28 points, something like that. And then they went to Barclays Center. And I remember I was there that night. The atmosphere was crazy. It was a really heightened crowd. Obviously, this Liberty team was really different. And I think Chicago won by like 18, 18 or 20 points. Like, they were the better team. They showed why they were the better team. They showed why they had a championship pedigree and had won the year before. Like, they handled their business. Same thing with Connecticut, right? They went to Dallas. That was a Dallas team. You know, Arique, she was dealing with an injury at the time. I think she was coming off the bench in that Game three. There was some conversation. Would she even play at all? But Connecticut, you know, handled their business. They won on the road despite dropping a game in Mohegan Sun. So, you know, by no means is returning back to Minnesota here. Does that mean the Lynx are going to win the series? Like, I still think, if you're asking, you know, and maybe we'll get here in a few minutes or maybe I'm jumping ahead, Zena. But like a prediction for Game three, I still think I would take the Connecticut sun. Even in Target center, their body of work shows that they have been the better team. Like, all year.
- [19:36]
E
You always perfectly transition us. So, yes, looking ahead a little bit, and my question was actually going to be more so looking at Game three, you think about what happened in Game one, Connecticut sun, talking about that body of work you just mentioned. Their body of work in game one was threes. Threes, very loudly. Threes, 53%. Remember, y'all, compared to the Lynx shooting 20%. Then you flip it to game two. They became more average. Not bad, but more average. Right. Dewana Bonner still did her thing. Alyssa Thomas still did her thing. But for the most part, the Connecticut sun did not show up offensively the way they did in Game one, whereas the Lynx did. Do we think in Game three, there's going to be a meeting in the middle of these two squads in the outlier type of games that they had in Game one versus Game two? Or do we think. No, Game two was a little bit more. Was a little bit more of a showing for the Minnesota links that we expect them to have on a normal basis? We're going to go probably back to what we expected to see, which was Game one type of result.
- [20:42]
G
I mean, I think Game one was a little bit more of an outlier. Even with Connecticut winning, I mean I just think them shooting, I think they had five players make more than a two or more three pointers and I don't think that's going to happen in game three. You know, that being said in, in game two, as you mentioned, Dwana Bonner, I think she was the only player who had multiple three pointers in that game. I think Beck Allen hit one, I think dejuana hit the other five or six. I want to say so I bet that game three looks a bit more like game two. But I still think Connecticut, you know, if they get a little bit more out of their supporting cast and teacher Heineman didn't score on offense. Tiffany Hayes I think had six points. Their bench after a really good Game one struggled, especially on the offensive end. You know, if they're able to slow down either fee or Kayla McBride, you know, I like Connecticut's chances. They don't even need to do both is and I think, you know, obviously they let both get loose in Game 2, but they don't need to do both. And so, you know, I would say if you're asking again me to make a prediction, I think game three becomes a close Connecticut win, not a 30 point win by any means. So I think it looks a little bit more like game two where these team teams, you know, hanging tight. But I still think Connecticut and with AT and what she's able to do right now, how well she's playing, you know, I still think they advance.
- [21:54]
E
I think there's another point too about when you mentioned disrupting Nafisa Collier or Kayla McBride. They don't have a point guard, right. They don't have a proper point guard. And that was very much on display in game one. They were very disrupted on offense. And game two, their assists were coming from Dorca Juha. Like you're seeing people, their center, their rookie center being the ones that's distributing the ball and creating for the links. I think that it's a matter of not only finding one of those two stars and shutting them down, but getting them to make mistakes on offense again where they can't even get their offense going. Sabrina, what are your predictions for game three?
- [22:31]
F
You know, it's interesting we talked about this series on our last episode and how I was more excited for the rest of it just based on how badly Minnesota had been eviscerated in game one because I thought they'd be able to come back, you know, more easily. You know, after having gone through that experience, I was so impressed by Sheryl Reeve's adjustments in game two, like the coach of the year is on the other side of that series. And I think Cheryl Reeve absolutely kicked her butt in game two. The fact that they, you know, ran more of their offense out of those post hubs, like you said, Dorka Juha is getting six assists. I thought just, you know, the relentless two player action between Nafeesa Collier and Kayla McBride, you can't leave McBride because she's shooting so well in this series. Alyssa Thomas refuses to leave Nafisa Collier, so that's leaving a lot of slips to the basket. I thought defensively they, they were so aggressively packing the paint in Game 1, which was leading to all of those wide open threes for Connecticut. They kind of just trusted Dorca and Nafisa to play their matchups one on one handle, Alyssa Thomas driving to the basket, one on one handle, all of those other guards coming into the paint and they were able to provide more pressure on the perimeter. Like you saw Alyssa Thomas, she finished 10 of 18. There were a lot of plays where she was going to the basket, asking for a foul call, wondering why she wasn't able to finish. Like, that was just a really good one on one interior defense for Minnesota. And I like that Cheryl Reeve trusted her bigs to do that. It was just a far more like, cohesive game plan for Minnesota. It made a lot more sense based on what Connecticut's strengths and weaknesses are. And obviously relying a lot on Kayla McBride shooting shit out of the ball, like relying on Nafiza Collier to play like that, even though she suffered that back injury during, what was it, the second or the third quarter, like, she looked like she had no lift whatsoever for about 10 minutes of this game. And then all of a sudden is getting key rebounds, like the number of offensive rebounds she got after she came back. I don't understand how she was doing that. It was really impressive. But yeah, I'm with Ben. Like, I still think Connecticut is favored, but I would not be remotely surprised if Minnesota took this game because the thing with the Lynx is I've been on this all year. Like, just as a Los Angeles Sparks fan, I've been very disappointed to see the Links so far ahead in the standings because their point differential was worse than the Indian favor this year. It was worse than the Los Angeles Sparks this year. The reason they're in this situation is because they won so many close games over the course of the regular season. And if we get to a situation where it's a five point game within the Last five minutes. I think I trust the Lynx better to execute even without a point guard because they have that one action they can go Back to with McBride and Collier. Over and over again, they have that shooting with Banham Carlton around them. I just really like the way that they handle themselves down the stretch of games. And so if Connecticut's going to win, I think it's going to have to be another blowout.
- [24:50]
E
Mm. Yeah. On that point that you mentioned about Nafeesa Collier, this was something I noticed, too. She led her team in offensive rebounds. That's crazy. With a back injury, folks, you make a wonderful point. They do seem more poised, and I don't know if that's the maturity that I see in McBride and Nafisa Collier, but they do seem more poised in these situations. And we're going to talk about that Coach of the year. But I do think Sheryl Reeves showed up. She saw where her team struggled in game one and was able to make the right adjustments. Let's get into some Tuesday game previews. First up, Atlanta Dream, Dallas Wings. All right, first game, Wings got down to the number of 20 points, folks. Okay, this is the team that is the higher seed. Yes, number four, number five, but still the higher seed. We're not expecting for Satsu, Sabley and crew to go down by 20. They came back, blew out that deficit, ended up beating the Atlanta Dream 94 to 82. If there was a sliver of hope for the Atlanta Dream, it was in this game. And they, they, they saw it go away. Satusable with 32 points or Ogwale with 24. Tara McCowan, 17 points on seven shots. Like, SIS was efficient. Okay, 14 rebounds as well. It was, it just doing amazing work. Especially when you think about the fact that one of the biggest storylines around Ta'ara McCown has been about getting her in shape and making sure that she can get up and down the floor and last the full game. She played majority of that game. I believe she played every single minute of that game. I mean, it was really, really impressive. Sabrina, my thoughts to you first. Do you think Atlanta just kissed their. Their opportunity to potentially win this series away with this loss?
- [26:44]
F
You know, it's interesting if you just look at the box score of this Atlanta, Dallas game and don't know anything about the game flow. Like, don't know that Atlanta went up by 20 points and blew it all by the end of the first half. Like, it looks like I thought it was going to look, you know, Dallas did really well on the offensive Glass they had 11 offensive rebounds. They turned the ball over more than I would have expected, but they got to the line a lot. You know, Atlanta obviously outshot them from three point range. Like all of the strengths and weaknesses that you would think would apply to each of these teams showed up. It just so happened that it was all at once for Atlanta and then all at once for Dallas later. We at least got that really fun third quarter was a little back and forth before Dallas blew it away in the fourth. But everything that, like, I thought Dallas would excel at being able to own the paint, forcing Atlanta into being a jump shooting team. Like, those things ended up happening. It's just that Atlanta made a lot of jump shots at the beginning, right? Like, Ryan Howard was unconscious at the start of the game, tying a WNBA playoff record for points in a quarter with 19. I'm not talking about like a rookie playoff record. No, just any player in WNBA history. That's the most points in a playoff quarter. I believe she tied former Atlanta dream star Angel McCaughrey with that number. But, like, this is what Atlanta can do. They can try to force the tempo, they can try to speed Dallas up. And then once Dallas realized, okay, we're just going to like, get back to our bread and butter of delivering the ball inside. We're going to make smarter passes to Tierra McCown and Tasha Howard. Tasha Howard, by the way, very, very weird game from Natasha Howard. Just the loudest highlights in the WNBA in both directions.
- [28:11]
E
But we'll focus on.
- [28:14]
F
I don't think anything really surprised me about the outcome. Like, I thought Dallas was a better team. I thought they were going to win this way. And it just so happened that they had to go down 20 points to make it happen. But I mean, I still think that there's a pathway for Atlanta to play more like they did in the first quarter. But they're seeing how hard it is to exert that control over the game for a full 40 minutes.
- [28:37]
E
I mean, a pathway would require ryan Howard making eight threes again, which she's capable of. But eight of 15 from beyond the arc again, scoring 19 and a quarter again, it seems, again, Ryan Howard is amazing. We already know that. We know that she is the star power down in Atlanta and she's capable of creating her own game, creating her own space, creating her own offense. But that's. I feel like it's a tall task to ask her to do the same or better in a game, too. Ben, what stood out to you in this game? From the wings, going down and Being able to fight back.
- [29:19]
G
Well, I just want to say, and this will parlay into my answer, I think Arike must have had the quietest 24 she maybe has ever had. I mean, Sabrina just talked about the Wings and all their successes. I don't think she mentioned their star guard at least one time in her response, and maybe that was intentional because she was throwing me an alley OOP for this response. But I also think it was indicative a little bit of, you know, the style Dallas is playing and what's up, like, why they've been so successful this year is, you know, Arique has been. She's been as good as advertised. She's been so important again, yet again, for another season to all their successes. She can create her own shot, obviously, like few others in the league. But, you know, what makes Dallas so unique is their bigs and, you know, their ability to just throw it to McAllen to. To use Natasha Howard to have Satu SABALI, you know, 32 points. You know, she continues, she might win most improved player of the year. We'll see when that voting comes out. But she continues this all star season and all W season that she's putting on. So, you know, that is one thing just that Arike can just create and we don't make much of it. I think it's honestly a good sign about where the Dallas Wings are that they have so much talent around her. The other thing that I want to make a note of, and she just deserves a special mention, is Odyssey Sims. You know, she played 19 minutes, 18 or 19 minutes off the bench in game one. It's just a. It's just interesting that Dallas, to me, entered the year as maybe the team with the most depth in the league or like the most intriguing bench in the whole league. They have so much young talent off their bench. Matty Segris, Veronica Burton, Allah Khuiri, Kalani Brown. Like, you could go down and down the roster of just high draft picks, you know, players with tons of pedigree coming out of college who are still trying to make a name for themselves in the W in that in the playoffs. Latricia Trammel, like, she turns to Odyssey Sims to be, you know, her most important reserve, at least in game one. And Odyssey Sims, you know, 31 years old. I think she played six or seven WNBA team. She began her career with the Tulsa Shock. So, you know, that's how long we're talking about, right? The Tulsa Shock, they were the Dallas. They were the Dallas Wings before the Dallas Wings were the Dallas Wings, like so it's just crazy to kind of map out her journey and that she's now playing, you know, significant playoff minutes or again she did in game one. You know, it's a great sign that, you know, she's a veteran who LT clearly trust to create, play reserve point guard minutes and just make sure the trains aren't falling off the tracks at any point and keeping them on the tracks because that was something obviously after their slow start that was super, super important for Dallas to do in that Game one.
- [31:49]
E
Well, I've already told you all, Satu Sablee ranks high in my book and I love that you pointed out Odyssey Sims because I do think that she's done a lot of hard work for Dallas and brings a level of veteranship to that team that adds to their poise and their ability to, to be effective. Excuse me, on the court. So looking into this game, looking into this, the fact that they're matching up again, Sabrina, I feel like I can guess what you think is going to happen for game two. I'm assuming you're thinking Wings are going to take it.
- [32:22]
F
Yeah, I mean you hinted at this. I just think their experience is really starting to shine. You know, you look at Atlanta's roster and this is Tanisha Wright's first postseason coaching. This is Ryan Howard's first time in the postseason, first time for Nas Hillman, Ari McDonald, you know, Cheyenne Parker doesn't have a ton of experience with Chicago. She left before, you know, they turned into that title team. And then you look at Dallas and like Natasha Howard is a three time champion. Right. And Odyssey Sim's been there, done that a few times. I realized like this is rike, I think her fourth trip to the postseason. Even if like they haven't had a ton of success. Like she's been in single elimination a couple times. Satu Sabali, her third trip to the postseason. Like there's just a little bit more to work with. They've gone through this feeling of having lost. You know, they went through a three game series last year, made it all the way to game three, you know, having to win a game on the opposing team's home court. So I just like their blend of like composure a little bit better than I do in Atlanta. Like Atlanta blew four double digit leads to lottery teams during the month of August this season. Like to see them blow a 20 point lead, yeah, it was like shocking in the moment, but, but it's not out of character entirely for what has happened with the dream this year. So I just trust the Wings more in this setting, and I think that's what we're going to see happen in game two.
- [33:36]
E
What about you, Ben?
- [33:36]
G
Well, it's just like, what else does Ryan Howard have to do, you know, like, what else has to change? Right? Like Sean Parker, if you're a Dream fan and you're scripting a win, she probably, you know, she probably needs to get, what, 20, 25 points on the inside and kind of out be the best big on the floor. And that's possible, right? CP she's had a great year. She made an All Star team. She really took a step up. But she needs to play like an All Star, and Ryan needs to do exactly what she did, I think, to give, you know, to have Atlanta have a chance or to. To come out victorious. Right? It's not even about a chance. When your backs are against the wall, they literally have to win. I just have a hard time seeing them slow down. The kind of rotating cycle that is Dallas is bigs. I wonder if Haley Jones checks in and, you know, she got a DMP in game one. You know, is she able to spell someone on the Dream in their lineup and just create some more pressure, a little bit of havoc. And however much she plays, eight minutes, ten minutes, if that. If she gets in a game, I don't know. Do I think that will be the difference? Probably not, but I just think, you know, a hard time with Ryan doing what she did. Like, Ryan's got to get 40, right? Like, she's got to get pretty much.
- [34:43]
E
Yeah.
- [34:44]
G
I don't know. I don't know if that's going to happen. Yeah.
- [34:46]
F
I think it's such a good point you made earlier about, like, Odyssey. Sam is bringing, like, keeping them on the tracks and like, you kind of saw the opposite with the Dream. Like, their most experienced player is Danielle Robinson, and you'd think that she would have that calming, veteran effect on them. And she made some questionable decisions throughout the course of that game. And so, like, I remember Danielle Robinson back in the 2020 playoffs with the Las Vegas Aces. You know, her taking over for Lindsey Allen at the point guard spot and like, really giving a lift to Las Vegas. It's crazy to think these are the things that was happening three years ago in the wnba, but Atlanta just needs, like, a veteran in the room, right? They need somebody to just settle them down. And I thought that was going to be Danielle Robinson, but it wasn't for them. And the fact that I have more confidence in Odyssey Sims than D Rob at this point is just not a great look for the dream.
- [35:28]
E
It's interesting. We're talking about Dallas and we're talking about Atlanta. I feel like Atlanta is old Dallas right in the way that we're gonna see Rein Howard be built around, right? They've got that extension going. They're gonna build around her, and we're gonna see some growth there. I feel the same thing happened with Arike, and they built around her, and you got some more veterans in the room and you got some more size around her. And I think that they have that. What do we call it, the super team that we've been saying all season, they've built around that to be able to have solid, solid presence at each position around them. And right now, I don't think Atlanta has that. They have Ryan, and that's about it. All right, let's keep going. We've got one more series to talk about. Washington Mystics versus the New York Liberty. This game was super, super exciting at the top of it, right? I thought it was going to be a much closer finish than where it ended. Game one ended 90 to 75. The liberty taking back home court advantage after they lost that last one in the regular season. You know, Natasha Cloud waving to the Liberty crowd is burned in my mind. And I'm sure it was for the New York Liberty as they knew what they had to do going into this Game one. What was fascinating was in the first half, Breonna Stewart just wasn't existent. She wasn't really a factor for the Liberty. She woke up. Elena Deldon on the other end wasn't a factor either. They were throwing double teams at her. She. But she found her way through assists. I always look at those two as in my mind as the comparables. And then you start thinking about the people around them and what everyone around them did. And New York Liberty reminded us, oh, yeah, we've got other people who can score, remember, But Naj Elaine, yeah, she can score. Remember John Cole Jones? She can score. And the Liberty showed up and closed out this game 90 to 75. Sabrina, what are your thoughts on what the Mystics need to do in order to make this game closer for game two and to ultimately take a win on the Liberty's home court?
- [37:42]
F
Maybe you put a body on Sabrina, like so many of her three pointers were just surprisingly wide open. I mean, I understand the Mystics are very confident in their defense. You know, they were one of, like, when their team is healthy, they're one of the better defensive teams in the wnba the way they were guarding, picking roles with Sabrina and like when she was coming off of screens, there was just not enough help on her for my taste. John Cole Jones set some good screens, I'll give you that. Like put two on the ball, like switch a little bit. Stop having your people go under on Sabrina UNESCO. I don't understand the logic of that. It was a weird set of decisions to be making against the most lethal three point shooter in the wnba. And she's been on this heater basically since she put up 37 points in the All Star three point shootout. Like this is just who Sabrina Nesco has been over the last two months. I understand, like scoring seven three pointers in a game seems like a big number. Ryan Howard showed. It's really not that big of a number. But this is what Sabrina is going to do if you give her the opportunity. So they have to stop giving her the opportunity.
- [38:42]
E
And I don't know why as I'm talking about the people around Brianna Stewart.
- [38:46]
F
Yeah.
- [38:46]
E
Sabrina was probably the first one I should have mentioned for sure.
- [38:49]
F
Again, I thought you were teeing me up like I did for Ben earlier.
- [38:51]
E
You know, there it is. Maybe that's what it was. That's what it was. Ben, what about you? When you looked at this game, it was close to start off with what were the things that the Mystics were doing well in the first half before things went a little south.
- [39:03]
G
I mean, I think they did a really good job defending Brianna Stewart the entire night, frankly, especially in the first half. But. But the entire night I think Stewie finished what, 3 of 16 from the field. And so I would ex. You know, I think this series comes down, it's like a pick your poison. Right. Like how. How Washington did a really good job containing Stewie. You know, Delladon played really good defense, really physical defense. And Stewie talked about how she got good looks but didn't knock him down. But I still think credit to Washington's defense for that. They didn't do as good of a job on Sabrina Unescu, you know, throughout the night as Sabrina talked about. So in game two, as we look forward, you know, if more eyeballs now go to Sabrina Unescu, then what happens with Stewie, right? Does she get more looks and it just becomes a pick your poison of. You just gotta hope that a number of things don't go right for the liberty at this point, frankly. You know, I think game one, you know, they talked a lot about on Monday at practice, just the pace of the game. Right. That like their amount of weapons and the pace that they play at really makes them dangerous that they are really hard to slow down for four quarters because they're just so dangerous on every single possession, especially when they run up and down the floor. And it's tough with Washington still being short handed. No Shakira Austin, at least in these first two games. We'll see what happens in game three, if there even is a Game three. But it's just tough to defend, right? I mean it's just that simple that New York has so many weapons on the floor that they can afford Stewie going 3 of 16. She talked about like on Monday at practice that sometimes when the ball doesn't go in, you just have to do the small stuff. And this is like an MVP talking about like doing the small stuff with like rebounding and screen setting, blocking shots, getting in the passing lanes. Like this may be the league MVP this year and when she is content just doing that and you're still able to win by double digits, like that is a sign that your team is super dangerous. And not that we needed any reminding about how dangerous the New York Liberty could be, but I think Game one was a good example and a good confidence booster for them that they didn't play their best by any means, but their weapons were on display. One thing I would add, and this just goes in the news and notes category for Game two. Just coming out of Monday's practice, Courtney Vandersloot she was not. She was receiving some medical treatment during the open portion of Monday's practice for the New York Liberty. Sandy Brondello said she tweaked a leg. So much so that Sandy didn't even know which leg she tweaked. She said Sandy said it was nothing too serious, that they were being smart getting Courtney some treatment. She downplayed it as any kind of big deal. She said Courtney's fine. We just want to make sure she's ready to go. But if nothing else, it's kind of worth adding to the bottom of a notebook or just monitoring. How does Courtney Vandersloot look? We don't know. We have no official designation on the injury report or anything like that. She may be a full go. Sandy Brown dollar certainly didn't seem too concerned at practice again. But you know, certainly if Courtney Vandersloot does not go or is limited or you know, re aggravates it, that's at least something to watch in Game two. And also going forward in this for.
- [42:03]
E
This Liberty Run 1000% Vander Slu is like the Energizer Bunny for them. She gives them that energy, pushes the pace for them. So I would 1000% be writing it down in my notebook to keep an eye on. I mean, I'm even keeping an eye on Asia Wilson's eye at this point. That's what we got to do when you're looking at these teams that seem indestructible. As you said, Sabrina. Okay, well, time for some predictions, folks. Mystics, Liberty. What do we think is going to happen in game two? Ben, you're up first.
- [42:36]
G
I mean, I think the Liberty will win again. To me, this feels like a big game for Stewie and honestly, I think another big game for jj. Like, I think she's again, underrated coming out of game one. What? She had 20 and 12 again, and it was just kind of the. The night she's had in the second half of the year. Another double double. Kind of under the radar, but still super important. Yeah, maybe they slow down sav a little bit more does Washington, but I still think New York will win probably in a very similar looking game where it's closed for a little while and then New York pulls away.
- [43:05]
E
What's so dangerous about New York is you can, you know, quiet Sabrina Yescu and then all of a sudden, bet Nigelaney has 19 and 8. Right. It's just like, it's kind of like Gophers, like the whack a mole. Like every time you want to, you know, quiet one player down, another one pops up on their bench. They're just so versatile in their ability to just stun you offensively.
- [43:26]
G
Except if they were all WNBA gophers, like, these are like the best gophers in the world. Like, not just. They're not like, they're not like little annoying pests popping out of the ground potentially. I don't know. Not to show any anti gopher bias here, but like, these are like the best animals in the kingdom kind of thing.
- [43:41]
E
Like, actually so. Right. So right. I want to put some respect on these gophers for sure. They're. They're a little bit different than the regular ones that you're seeing around. Thank you for clearing that up. Sabrina, what are your thoughts?
- [43:56]
F
I think the Liberty win comfortably, too. I'm glad Ben brought up Jonquil, though, because I think after her double double in game one, the Liberty are now 120 this season when JJ gets a double double. So it's a really good barometer for how that team is performing.
- [44:07]
E
Yeah. Yeah. What's so hard about this Two matchups. And when you look at the Dallas Wings and Atlanta Dream, right, we're talking about experience versus non experience. These two are very experienced. Not necessarily from a team perspective, not necessarily New York Liberty, but the people on the team, those that are making it up. You think about Jonquil Jones, Courtney Vandersloot, Brianna Stewart. These are playoff queens, right? They've done this before. And you could say the same thing for the Washington Mystics, particularly the Washington Mystics, not only as players, but as a team. This is basically the exact same team that has continuously made appearances in the playoffs. So I'm very, very excited for this one. This is the only one that I actually want to make a prediction for. And I personally think the Mystics take one. I think that the Mystics are going to wake up. I think that they did not play with a sense of urgency in game one. And now that it is win or go home, I think they're going to pick it up and win. They're capable. They've been in these positions before. They've seen the playoffs before. This is not a new team. And so, yeah, I also think that they're going to find some sort of an adjustment for the double team that was thrown at Elena Deldon. They're going to find more ways to get her open and allow her to be the magical Elena Delon that she is. Because after all, they are the Mystics folks. So that's my thoughts, but that's all the playoff thoughts and discussions and predictions for today. Thank you to Ben and Sabrina. I really do feel like I understand the game better. I watch the game better. I peep certain things that I probably wasn't looking for before every time I talk to you all and just understand a little bit more context around what I'm watching. So thank you. But don't go anywhere because I want you today to be a part of off the script. So end of season awards are officially rolling out. So far, four of the 12 that WNBA give out have already been announced. The peak performers which were Jewel Lloyd, Alyssa Thomas and Courtney Vandersloot. The executive of the year, Jonathan Kolb, GM of the New York Liberty, won that. Actually the first award or the first executive of the year that New York Liberty have won. No real surprise there. Jonathan Kolb put in some work this off season bringing all the superstars that he did to come play around Sabrina and Ionescu. And man, has it paid off. Whether they win or not, the Liberty have truly changed the landscape of the wnba. And so shout out to Jonathan Cole. But we are going to focus particularly on the two awards that Ben and Sabrina got a chance to vote on, and that is coach of the year and sixth player. Who did you vote for for coach of the year?
- [46:49]
F
As I said on the show, I think on our first episode, if the Aces finished first in offense and defense, I was going to vote for Becky Hammond. And I voted for Becky Hammond.
- [46:56]
E
Okay. And Ben, who did you vote for?
- [46:58]
G
I voted for Stephanie White.
- [47:00]
E
Oh, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. And Ben wins the coach of the year between the two of them. Stephanie White of the Connecticut Sun. Congratulations to her as the coach of the year. Ben, like, why did you vote for her?
- [47:13]
G
I just think it's some of again what we talked about a couple of weeks back, just implementing a new system at the start of the year and then having to revamp it even further when Bree Jones tore her Achilles right. Getting the most out of that roster. Connecticut, I think surprised a lot of people, myself included. And I think really was a credit to Steph White and her first year staff. You know, a lot of again, the coaches on her staff were also first year assistance in the wnba. I thought they did a really good job just keeping the franchise afloat. At deserves a lot of credit for that. But a huge credit goes to Seth White for. For bringing the most out of her players. Someone like Ty Harris and Shisha Heideman. All these players had really good years. Dijonay Carrington was in the running for sixth player of the year. You know, maybe should have won it in some people's eyes. Maybe we'll talk about that next in this future award. But credit to Steph White. That was why she. She got my vote.
- [48:04]
E
Yes, Stephanie White definitely made some lemonade out of lemons at the beginning of this year. I mean, let's just be real. Some of her lemons were solid mangoes and other nice fruits. When you get a brick wall.
- [48:15]
G
And Alyssa Thomas gonna say.
- [48:18]
E
I wouldn't say Alyssa Thomas the one upon her with some lemons. But yeah, she definitely made a great situation out of the fact of a terrible loss in. In Bree Jones not being able to suit up this year. All right, let's get to the next award that's gone out. Sixth player of the year. I'll switch it up. Ben, who did you vote for?
- [48:36]
G
I had Alicia Clark in the Las Vegas Aces.
- [48:39]
E
All right, and Sabrina, who for you?
- [48:41]
F
Alicia Clark.
- [48:42]
E
Woo y'all. Our experts are experts. They got it. Alicia Clark. Congratulations to her winning sixth player of the year. Now, Sabrina, you see Alicia Clark More often than other players. Why did you vote for her for sixth player of the year?
- [48:59]
F
You know, it was a weird field for six player of the year this year. Usually there's somebody who's coming off the bench, averaging double digit scoring, you know, making a microwave type impact. We didn't really have that around the league this year, at least players who were, you know, coming off the bench for the majority of their games. But Alicia Clark is just the best player who's coming off the bench. Like, she fills in every role the Las Vegas Aces need her to. She can score in the paint, she can hit threes. She literally anchors their defense when she's in the game. Like all of the players who, who have been part of Becky Hammond's system longer than Alicia Clark has, say that AC is the one who does the talking on the floor when she's in the game. I just think she adds so much to that team. Gives them an option to go small, you know, can play even in their bigger lineups. Just does a little bit of everything. The very best teammate that you could ask for. So it was a really easy choice for me. Alicia Clark.
- [49:44]
E
There you go. Well, congratulations to her. There are more awards to be given out, of course. The coveted mvp. We are waiting on that one. When is that one supposed to expect it to come out?
- [49:55]
G
September 26th, I think.
- [49:57]
E
September 26th. Okay. We're not counting down the days, of course. No, no, we are very excited for that one to come out. But there is much more to come, so make sure you guys tune in for our next episode. Not only this week, but then we've got more throughout the playoffs. We'll be covering everything that you need to know through all of these series matchups. Thank you to Sabrina and Ben for joining us and giving us your insight. Make sure to tune in. There are games Tuesday night. This is. That's tonight when you're hearing this, so make sure to tune in. Washington Mystics take on the New York Liberty first and then the Atlanta Dream versus the Dallas Wings. Right after all. Right, that's all for today. Thank you for listening. Make sure to follow and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. But. But until next time, please continue to keep learning, keep engaging, and keep loving the game. Thanks, all.
- [50:59]
Zena Keda
As we head into the playoffs, it's safe to assume there will be a few calls made by the refs that will be hard to accept. But you know what isn't hard to accept? Discovery. Believe it or not, Discover is accepted at 99% of places that take credit cards nationwide. You heard that right, 99%. So make a good call for your wallet and get Discover based on the February 2024 Nielsen report. Learn more at discover.com creditcard this podcast.
- [51:25]
G
Is brought to you by Aura. Imagine waking up to find your bank account drained, bills for loans you never took out, a warrant for your arrest. All because someone stole your identity. Hackers aren't waiting. Why are you? That's why we're thrilled to partner with Aura. Your personal data is a goldmine for hackers, and Aura helps lock it down. Aura monitors the dark Web, blocks data brokers from selling your information. Includes a VPN for private browsing and a password manager to secure your accounts before criminals break in. For a limited time, Aura is offering our listeners a 14 day free trial plus a dark web scan to check if your personal information has been leaked. All for free@aura.com safety that's aura.com safety to sign up and start protecting protecting yourself and your loved ones. That's a u r a.com safety terms apply. Check the site for details.
- [52:18]
F
Acast powers the world's best podcasts.
- [52:22]
E
Here's a show that we recommend.
- [52:25]
Zena Keda
Hey guys, we have an exciting announcement about our podcast.
- [52:29]
G
For the past seven years, the Holderness Family Podcast has been the most favorite thing we do.
- [52:33]
E
We love getting to talk to experts.
- [52:35]
Zena Keda
We love having meaningful conversations just the two of us, and we also love hearing from you.
- [52:39]
G
But the thing we love most is.
- [52:41]
Being a place where you can laugh.
- [52:43]
Sabrina Merchant
A lot has changed in the last.
- [52:44]
Zena Keda
Seven years and we feel very lucky.
- [52:46]
E
That our audience is growing older with us.
- [52:49]
G
So in the spirit of that, we are relaunching our podcast. We are excited to introduce Laugh Lines with Kim and Penn Holderness.
- [52:56]
Sabrina Merchant
The Laugh Lines podcast will be all.
- [52:58]
Zena Keda
About aging together better and also being.
- [53:01]
G
Able to laugh about getting older.
- [53:03]
Sabrina Merchant
We hope you'll join us.
- [53:04]
G
Search Laugh Lines with Kim and Pen Holderness New episodes every Tuesday.
- [53:10]
F
ACAST helps creators launch, grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast. Com.