← No Offseason: The Athletic Women's Basketball Show
No Offseason: The Athletic Women's Basketball Show
WNBA's new era + Washington Mystics GM Jamila Wideman interview
00:47:00
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- [00:00]
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- [01:33]
Ben Pickman
Summer is.
- [01:34]
Sabrina Merchant
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- [03:03]
Ben Pickman
Love.
- [03:04]
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- [05:18]
Zena Kato
Hello everyone and welcome to no off season presented by MassMutual. I'm Zena Cato.
- [05:23]
Sabrina Merchant
I'm Sabrina Merchant.
- [05:25]
Ben Pickman
And I'm Ben Pickman.
- [05:27]
Zena Kato
Today on the show we're calling it we are officially in a new era for the wnba. The big names of the past, Diana Taurasi, Sue Bird, Candace Parker, Elena Deldon. They've moved into retirement. They're still alive, folks. So I'm sorry we're being so dramatic. They're still here with us, just not on the WNBA court. And the young ones, Caitlyn, Paige, angel and more, they are taking over. So what does this all mean for the WNBA and the sport that we love? We're going to get into it. Plus, Ben is going to interview former Stanford and WNBA baller and current Washington Mystics GM Jamila Wideman to talk about this new era for the wnba. Also, what it's like being a first year GM and the inside story about how the draft unfolded for the Mystics, because I don't know if you noticed, but they cleaned house. It was great. All right, first up, now that the dust has settled on the WNBA draft, I want to talk about some observations that we made or maybe that we missed actually, on Monday night. So, both of you, what's one final lingering thought that's been on your mind since the draft?
- [06:37]
Sabrina Merchant
I think the viewership number really popped to me. I mean, I know we were expecting it not to quite hit what last year's 2024 draft hit with Caitlin Clark and all of momentum after the Iowa, South Carolina national title game, but for it to still, you know, reach 1.25 million viewers, I think it peaked at about 1.46 million viewers. Like, that is so much more than any other draft had been other than last year. So I realize we're tempering expectations after what happened in 2024, but to still see so much momentum after that tournament into this draft, into what I think is gonna be an awesome WMA season, was very, very cool.
- [07:13]
Zena Kato
That's a really good point. I think the draft has become a spectacle for the women's side, you know, and I say spectacle with all of the positive connotation to it because it's the style. Who's gonna show up, who's gonna surprise their teammates. Like, it is a whole scene out there where so in the past, people were showing up like they were going to a business interview, and it was a little dry. Okay. Little dry. So there's a lot more splash around it, and it's a lot more fun be. What's one thing that's lingering in your mind?
- [07:41]
Ben Pickman
You know, we talk a lot on Monday night about the fits that we really liked, and it seems like, you know, there were a lot of second.
- [07:49]
Zena Kato
And we're not talking about clothes, y'all. Not. No, no.
- [07:52]
Ben Pickman
I guess I should have made that clear. It was a good transition. I mean, we Also talked about the fits. We like those kind of it I was saying more player fits and a lot of those players were kind of second and third rounders even still. And I was just going back through like so rarely do we have second and third round picks make impacts. Right. Last year there were only two players taken after the first round who made an impact on their teams. There were about three in 2023. And that's usually the case like over the last five or six years. Like it's two or three players and I'm just interested like this year, you know, there might be four or five players taken after the first round who if they make their teams could have legitimate impacts. Right. Tahina Powpow is one. Shy sellers is Kosu in Minnesota. Team very rarely picks an international player, expects them to come over and then cuts them. Right. Like right away. Like that's a player I would expect to maybe get some run, you know. 9. Scott at the top of the second round could be fits like Olson we talked about she could be in a position to play just because of Washington's depth chart. Like we might have more players from the sec. Serena Sundell was another one. Second and third round picks this year come in and contribute just even as rotational players than we've had before. Maybe we don't. And I still am like looking at the draft with kind of rose colored glasses, so to speak. But it's also possible this is an outlier that we might, you know, just have more contributors from, from this class than some in some past years.
- [09:22]
Zena Kato
Oh yeah, no, absolutely. Sundell is the number one I think that I was thinking about. But Shy Sellers is a good one. So many more incredibly talented players, but also where they got drafted opens up a path for them to really make a impact and stick. And that's. You guys are going to hear us say that a lot and you're going to hear players talk about this a lot. The concept of sticking in the wnba, it is so hard to do. And meaning making a team and then staying with that team or maybe you don't make that team but you get picked up by another team and you actually stay. So oftentimes if Ben or Sabrina are saying like, yeah, she was in the W, didn't stick, that's what we're referring to. And there's a lot of great talent that might be able to stick. One thing that I say is still lingering in my mind is not necessarily at the draft, but because this WNBA season is so wild in all of the off season moves that happened. There isn't that same level, in my opinion. There wasn't that same level of like all the messages from the current players being like, come into our, you know, our program and our heritage of this. Like, you know, I think it feels different when I'm just curious to see if the Las Vegas Aces, like how Asia Wilson brought in Kate Martin into the heritage of the Las Vegas Aces. Is that going to run true for some of these veterans that are on brand new teams that are basically in the same position as some of these rookies of not having the same connection with some of these teams that you'd expect? And so it felt a little bit different of not seeing all the same messages of oh yeah, this vet reached out to me or this person that's been on the team for a long time reach out to me. And so it'll be fun to see how the, the rookies and also the new vets in these spaces, like, come together and create new versions of the teams we've known for so long. So that's, that's been lingering on my mind. But okay, I, I think we can put a nice little bow on that. Now let's turn our attention to this new era that is upon us. Like we talked about at the top. So many big players from the last couple decades. Bird, Taurasi, Park. I didn't even, I didn't do my baby hairs today, y'all. It's cause Candice Parker retired, but I'm, I'm, I'm gonna get them together. I will make her proud eventually. But anyways, there's a new crop of stars that is rising to take the mantle. Sabrina, for you, how does the retirement of some of these key players and the ascension of others, like, affect the style of play we might see in the W moving forward? We see on the NBA side, the number one thing we saw with a lot of the retirement of the older players is one, there's a lot more threes with the new players and a lot less bigs. Right? Proper true back to the basket bigs, but that's the men's side. What do you think this new era can bring in terms of the style of play on the women's side with these legends retiring?
- [12:27]
Sabrina Merchant
I mean, I think that's part of it. Obviously we've seen, we know, we've talked to a lot of WNBA teams who have said, you know, the league is moving away from a too big setup and you know, a lot of teams still like to play with two bigs, but more and more teams are playing with one big and spacing the floor around them like a 4:1 setup. You want people who are a little bit more versatile, a little bit more mobile because using more space on the court than we have in previous seasons. But I think just like this seems very obvious, but people retiring just makes the league a lot younger. You know, like, they're. The people who are retiring have been in the league for so very long, right? Like, super was in the league for 20 years. Tarazi, 20 years. Like Candace Barker and Sylvia Fowles came in the 2008 draft class. Like, and when you have, I don't want to say old, but like, when you have older players, veteran players, they tend to want older teammates with them, right? And so you see a lot of veteran players, you know, lasting longer in the locker rooms, even if they aren't superstars, so to speak. So I wonder, now that there are, you know, a younger crop of star players, are they going to still have the same reverence and same insistence on having like the, the veteran, you know, locker room presence, you know, that one player off the bench who knows how the league works, who can like, explain things to younger players? Because, you know, you mentioned the NBA comparison. I think we see like that, that sort of like, old head, you know, person who just like, can give a bunch of wisdom like that has sort of gone on the wayside in the NBA and it's still very much a part of the league in the wnba. So I'm wondering, like, as we lose the star veteran players, are we also going to lose the role player, veteran players?
- [14:02]
Zena Kato
Mm, that's a really great question, Ben. I wanna keep talking about this potential, this conversation around the younger players because I think all younger players appreciate that veteran that's in the locker room that can calm them down after a play. I'm thinking about like Heinz Allen and how huge she was from Minnesota even have it being. She's not even a really seasoned player, but she's just got a little bit more time under her belt that she can just bring a bit of. I've been here before, let's calm down, let's get our pacing right. Let's, you know, whatever it is, or just showing the younger kids, this is how I'm going to contribute to the game. This is all I can contribute to the game. And being helpful, like, you still need those type of role models in locker rooms to be able to show to younger players. Like, what type of players are we starting to see outside of these younger players in terms of the changes, not just the ages, but maybe where they're coming from included.
- [15:01]
Ben Pickman
Yeah, I mean, we have seen a lot of youth movement coming from the international ranks right now in the wnba. Right. If you look at the three players, just the foreign players who were taken in the top 10 alone, Sivka Yoshite and, you know, Dominique Malanga, like at the top, all Those players are 19 years old. Right. Last year, by comparison, the youngest players in the wnba, I want to say, was Jade Melbourne and Aaliyah Edwards, and both of them turned 22 during last year's WNBA season. Right. So already we're kind of injecting the league with potentially if all three of the foreign players I mentioned come over this year like 3 sub 20 year olds and in that way, like the WNBA will look a lot more like the NBA where so often you get players not only who are, you know, first year in college and then entering the pros, but also foreign players who are coming in right away. And you know, a big reason why teams are investing international talent is because these players are younger and they can get them in their systems or they can watch them develop and, you know, you know, help them acclimate to the pro game and they'll be on their second contract by the time they're 23 years old, which is sometimes when players who go to college enter the wnba. Like that's a totally different kind of financial commitment as well. And you can see why some international players view that, you know, as appealing too, because in theory they're playing, you know, abroad professionally in the winter and then they're going to come to the W, they'll play professionally, they'll make money, and then they'll get their second deal in this new CBA sooner than if they were a foreign player going to play at an American university. So it's just going to be really interesting. Like if this is a trend to watch going forward, and I suspect it will be again, it's not going to change in terms of domestic players, but the foreign players definitely will, I think this year and in future years continue to kind of, you know, bring some more youth into, into these locker rooms.
- [16:54]
Zena Kato
Now I'm interested in not only the youth aspect and the changing of the game. We remember just how physical those Olympics were. And we know the international game is just a little bit more elbows, a little bit more pinching under the basket. It's a little bit more physical overall. Do you think that that could be something, Sabrina, that we can just see the game evolving in the wnba where things are fast paced and really, really physical.
- [17:23]
Sabrina Merchant
Well, that kind of depends on the refereeing guidelines that the WNBA implements. And I think just based on how unrivaled went and the general reaction to how the Olympics are called and how FIBA games are called, WMA players like the way the game is officiated, relatively speaking. You know, maybe they do complain about individual calls. We're not going to say that they're completely happy with the state of officiating. But the overall points of emphasis, I think is how, you know, an American audience wants to watch basketball where, you know, contact does get called and like you do have to be a little bit more disciplined while you're defending. I just wanted to like go into that, that three point thing you were talking about a little bit before.
- [18:02]
Zena Kato
Sure.
- [18:03]
Sabrina Merchant
I think the three point boom has kind of been overstated in the WNBA. Like if you look at like 10 years ago, the average number of three point like attempts in the WNBA was 14.8. And this past year the lowest was Chicago sky, which was 14.9. But it's really kind of like leveled off over the last five years. Like in 2020 it was 21.2 was the average number of attempts per game and this past year was 22.8. So like, I don't know that we're really seeing a dramatic change in how the game is played recently. Like it's definitely changed pre pandemic, but I do wonder if more international flavor in the game is going to, you know, cause a different sort of stylistic change. Like again, I hate to keep referring to the men's side, but it's like the best comparison that we have. Like when you have so many international players coming, you know, from Europe, like all of the MVPs that have won in the last like few years. I do think that positionally the game sort of changed, like what we expect from positions has evolved in the NBA. And I think maybe that's sort of what I'd be looking for in the wnba, which has historically been such a post driven league. Like is this the time that, you know, maybe we see more ball dominant guards and like not running the offense through the post as often because you're getting these talented wings that are coming from overseas or I don't know, maybe Malanga changes nothing because she's exactly the type of player they've been dreaming of this whole time.
- [19:23]
Zena Kato
Yeah, Malonga's going to be interesting if you can find more versions of her. Go ahead, Ben.
- [19:27]
Ben Pickman
I was going to say Sabrina though. Do you Think that this year we also have a lot of new head coaches who are first year head coaches and two in particular come from, you know, three point heavy college systems, right? Carl Smesco in Atlanta and Lynn Roberts, Utah. Like those were two programs historically that took threes as much as any program in the country. I mean FGCU, where SMESCO came from, they were above 50% 3 point attempt rate. Like I mean every year that I can remember offhand. And Lynn Roberts, like her Utah team last year before she left, you know, again, top half of the country, they were top 10. I think they took around 29 threes per game in the two, I guess the 23, 24 season. Like I wonder too, in combined with the youth movement, do some of these new coaches, do they both change and you know, can they alter the three point numbers, the averages, the three point rate that you threw out and do they kind of more generally like change the style of play? Because we have seen too with like Nate Tibbets coming in, like Phoenix takes a lot of threes or wants to take a lot of threes, much like an NBA team would. So I don't know, like that's another kind of layer in the house. Style of play will be different, new era, new players coming in. Conversation that I wanted to just toss in there as well.
- [20:40]
Zena Kato
I'm always curious about when it, especially with new coaches, it's like adopting your system but also adapting to the personnel you have because if you don't have three point shooters, you can't apply a three point system. It won't work very well in your favor. But yeah, no, that's going to be really, really interesting. And you talked, Sabrina, a little bit about the audiences. And Ben, I want to turn that to you in terms of just like if you've got a new era of WNBA basketball, new stars. I just talked about the draft being a spectacle. You know, how does this translate for the business side of things?
- [21:12]
Ben Pickman
I mean the reality is that this new era of stars is kind of continuing to build on like the new era that kind of came in last year, right? These, these players, this crop of invitees led by Paige Beckers is the continuation of that. And we have started to see a lot of that in the ratings even from the draft on Monday night. And you guys talked about it, you know, earlier Sabrina was talking about the TV ratings like this was the second most watched WNBA draft ever. And yeah, it was a decline from last year's draft, but on the whole it's way up from 2023 and all the years before. And that's consistent with a lot of the NCAA tournament viewership. Right. The. The final between South Carolina and. And UConn this past year, I want to say, peaked at around nine and a half million viewers. It was twice as much when South Carolina. Twice as many viewers as when South Carolina and UConn played in the 2022 title game just a few years ago. And. Right. Those are data points that if we take kind of the Clark explosion out of the equation, that reflects, again, growth, continued interest from a business perspective. And there's so many layers to this new era. But one of the things I was kind of thinking about, and I wrote about this a little bit earlier this week, is like, these rookies as a whole are just so well prepared to transition because many of them are, frankly, pros in college. Right. Like, we literally just heard Olivia Miles last week when she was deciding to stay at tcu. She used the phrase, like, I want to be a pro without being a pro. And that has just stuck with me and I think will continue to stick with me because it's just a very clear way to, like, describe the student athlete experience or the athlete experience for someone still enrolled at a university in America. Right. Like, they're dealing with endorsement deals. Nil. They're doing photo shoots on their off days. They're doing interviews. They're getting paid. They have incredible facilities. Like, they're traveling across the country if you play in the Big Ten to compete in these athletic competitions, any conference. True.
- [23:09]
Zena Kato
Like, they're flying in private planes. Like, this is a real thing. Yeah.
- [23:12]
Ben Pickman
Right. And so you're just kind of well prepared if you're a Paige Beckers. But even if you're, you know, like, anyone really, like, who's coming from a Power 5 school to transition into the pro. So I think that's another error of this, like, new era, new, you know, rookie conversation, too.
- [23:30]
Zena Kato
Oh, yeah.
- [23:31]
Sabrina Merchant
And then you look at the wnba. They've done such a good job of professionalizing the experience of WNBA players when before you'd come out of college. And it sort of felt like a downgrade, you know, coming into the wnba. Now, you have teams that are investing in practice facilities and more amenities for their players. I think, like, you could probably count maybe like two or three teams that either don't have a facility or haven't announced a facility within the next year or so. They're playing in bigger arenas. You know, they're making sure that their players feel like professionals, you know, during this time that they are in the wnba. So that's another big part of the new era of the WNBA is that these athletes kind of feel more like stars and celebrities, right? They aren't afterthoughts after they leave college. And, you know, all of that's part of it. Like the celebrity, the spectacle, and, you know, the changing basketball, too.
- [24:15]
Zena Kato
That was one of the really cool things of hearing Tip Hayes at WNBA All Star. She did a live recording of A Touch More, and she was sitting beside Kate Martin. Tip Hayes, Kate Martin being on the Valkyries. And they're doing this interview in the Valkyries Performance center, the Rakuten Performance Center. And you're looking around and you're asking. And they were asking her about it and she's talking about how, like, it's crazy what her experience was like when she first entered the league and what was available to her versus this unbelievably decked out performance center. Just being available, like, in this, in any sense, like, that makes it for better basketball. You have that much more resources being allocated to these professionals. Like, you can show up and do your job without issue. I think that this is going to make for a better product on the floor when these pros are able to just focus on that. And it's part of why you get to see, you know, college right now, the power five schools doing so well because they are outfitted with a lot of the things they need to be able to put on a good product in college. And now it's going to be able to translate.
- [25:18]
Ben Pickman
And can I just say, like, and we're still just at kind of the early stages of this curve. I think that's kind of the expectation that so many people have. Right? Like, player experience is clearly going to be an important topic of conversation for the players as they negotiate this upcoming cba. And we have seen a lot of teams invest in it. And if you look at, you know, Dallas, we can use them just as the example. Like, they're moving into a bigger arena at the start of the 2026 season. They're going to have a new refurbished practice facility ahead of next season. Like, you know, their team president and CEO was pretty open with me about, like, this is transformative from a business standpoint. On day one, we saw something very similar in, you know, Indiana, and we're seeing it in Chicago. And, like, all these teams are starting to recognize exactly what you're just saying, Xena. And, you know, I think the expectation is that we might not see jumps the same way that there was a jump between 23 and 24 in terms of ratings and viewership and attendance. But on the whole, I think we're seeing a lot of teams that might not have even experienced as big of a leap last year continue to see, you know, increases and are projecting increases for this upcoming season and beyond.
- [26:30]
Zena Kato
I love this. It's a new era. There's new facilities, there's new money. There's everything to be had. And of course, there's new rookies. Stick around. Right after the break, Ben is going to have a conversation with Washington Mystics GM Jamila Wideman. They just got three first rounders. We'll see how they fare right after this.
- [26:53]
Ben Pickman
Welcome back to no off season. I am now joined by the general manager of the Washington Mystics, Jameela Weidman. Jameela, thank you for being here.
- [27:01]
Jamila Wideman
Thanks so much. Great to be here. Appreciate it, Ben.
- [27:03]
Ben Pickman
So to give our listeners a little bit of background on you, first, you were hired as the GM of the Mystics this past December. But basketball has long been integral to, you know, your life and your journey. You played at Stanford. You were the number three pick in the 1997 WNBA Draft, which was the first college draft for college players. You then went to law school, NYU Law school, used that degree as a lawyer to work with the Equal Justice Initiative. And I haven't done a full fact check on WNB gms, but I think you're the only one to have that in your bio. Went back to the basketball space, worked at the NBA for six years as the VP of player development. And I read this that, oh, like back in the day you also threw javelin in high school, is that right? I saw you were pretty good at that back in the day.
- [27:43]
Jamila Wideman
That is impressive research that you found that it is in fact true.
- [27:48]
Ben Pickman
I saw somewhere 114ft at at least one meet, which I think is pretty good. But I am admittedly no expert in this field.
- [27:55]
Jamila Wideman
I think I remember thinking it was a little bit further than that at the time. But you know how that goes.
- [28:00]
Ben Pickman
That is okay. Well, all that is quite the resume and it gets you to working for the Mystics in this new era in the sport and for the franchise. And obviously we're talking to you at the end of this busy draft week, but I wanted to start here and kind of lean on your various perspectives. A few years back I was reading something and you told NYU's alumni magazine where you went to law school that one of the common threads between your legal expertise and your work at the NBA was that you're interested in people. How does that philosophy kind of pertain to your new role? How do you kind of approach getting to know people and maybe getting to know potential draft prospects in a process in which you can't really actually talk to these players you're selecting until just a few weeks ago?
- [28:38]
Jamila Wideman
Yeah, it's a great question. I mean, when you're thinking about draft picks, in many ways, it's one of those moments where I think my belief that the game is really a translation of people is something I truly believe in practice. And so I think as you watch people play, as you see their demeanor on their court, as you see the kind of creativity of their game, as you see them interact with teammates, react to different moments in the game, moments of adversity, moments of celebration. And these days, because of the more increased coverage of players, you also get windows into who and how they are as they speak about themselves in interviews. And of course, through social media, you get a window into how a version of players, the one that they choose to create and share widely, gives you another kind of window. And so, for me, I think people are fascinating. I think it's incredible to be part of a game that is essentially a collection of personalities, a collection of experiences that come together and are expressed through how we pass the ball to one another, how we compete, how we dream and decide the kind of style of play that we want to play. And so if you're a witness and a watcher and a listener, it's a pretty cool place to be.
- [30:06]
Ben Pickman
Do you feel like that's kind of an approach that is, I don't know, unique to you or something you learned over time through your experience in the law and at the NBA. And does it compare to some of your colleagues? I don't know if you've had those conversations or NBA colleagues. Like, how did you kind of form that philosophy and that guiding approach?
- [30:26]
Jamila Wideman
Yeah, I mean, I think if I think about my experience as a player and maybe some of what that experience has driven me to bring into this role, I think there's probably a commonality between myself and maybe others in this role who have really been in the game, stood in the shoes as players, and I think that commonality probably does include an instinct that is about listening. I think when you're a player, it becomes one of your superpowers when you're asked to do things on the court, understanding from a coach what exactly they mean and where you're supposed to go. When you are a teammate, it's understanding and learning what your teammates like to do it is being able to communicate for yourself that same thing. And so the game is already incredibly reliant on relationships. And sometimes that's about a spoken language, and sometimes that's about the kind of connectivity that comes from spending time, that comes from sharing a vision, that comes through going through stuff with somebody else. And so I don't think I'm probably categorically unique. I think it's probably the opposite. It may be that some of those experiences I had as a player actually influenced the kind of lawyer that I was.
- [31:50]
Ben Pickman
That's super interesting. And going back, I guess, to your playing experience, do you remember your own draft night? Where you were, who you were with? I don't know what the. Was there a broadcast? How did you find out? Can you just paint the picture of what you remember from that moment for you back in 1997?
- [32:07]
Jamila Wideman
Yeah, actually, I'm quite proud that I can remember it, because in a few years, the answer to that question might be different, but it was an incredibly thrilling moment and could not be more different than what I have watched the last couple years in the drafts and certainly was different than being in the war room the other night. But. But my draft took place for me. I was on a cell phone. I was still in the middle of taking finals at Stanford when the draft happened, and so I was told to call into a conference line at the time, I think I had a flip phone, and my teammates had gathered at my coach's house, at Tara Vanderveer's house. And I called into the call, and I couldn't find any cell phone coverage anywhere in the house except for her coat closet. So I crawled into her coat closet. My teammates were out in the L room, and I literally, like, huddled in the dark among her coats and then heard that I was picked by the Los Angeles Sparks with the third pick. And I cracked open the closet door, and I told everybody, hey, I'm going to the LA Sparks. And I think at that point, like, the name of the team had only been shared probably a couple weeks before that, everyone was like, wait, the Sparks? Where is that? And so we all, of course, celebrated together. And in many ways, I think it's probably similar in. It's a surreal moment. It happens really quickly, and, you know, you're with people that you love and that support you, and that's what makes it incredibly special.
- [33:40]
Ben Pickman
I was just gonna say the other similarity, I guess, between you and Sonja Citron's experience is that you both went number three. That's about the other. Those might be the only two similarities between your two experiences on draft night, it seems.
- [33:51]
Jamila Wideman
Nailed it. I think I had my practice clothes on. There was no designer. No designer clothing for me, no orange carpet, which I relatively grateful for that.
- [34:02]
Ben Pickman
Amazing. I guess, to some of your selections, obviously, you have Sonia Citron at number three, Kikar Irafen and number four, and Georgia Amor at number six. You guys really kind of controlled the meat of the draft in the first round. When you think about that group, and I've heard you talk about it this week, kind of you. You want them to embody the identity of what you guys are building as a team. When you were making that selection or those selections, how much did you guys think about how that trio would mesh together and how much was it okay, if we go Sonja at number three, then, you know, is it Kiki or someone else at four? And if we take Kiki at four, then, you know, is it Georgia or someone else at six?
- [34:38]
Jamila Wideman
Yeah. No, it's a great question. I think the way we thought about it was if we did make our selections in a way that reflected some of our. Our core values and some of the fundamental pieces that we want to be true about any player that we draft, that their ability to mesh and their connectivity would actually end up being driven by that fact as much as literal connectivity that they might have had between one another before the draft and. Or the kind of connectivity that you might imagine. It looks really neat that there's a point guard, a wing, and a forward. That worked out really well. But I think what we were really interested in was making sure that we drafted really good people. I think we were really conscious that this group will have a unique imprint on this moment of the Mystics. We certainly wanted to pick a group that we thought could come in and complement I think, the amazing talent that we already have. And that's a particular quality to be able to come in and have a consciousness that, on the one hand, you're going to be asked to leave an imprint, and on the other hand, you're going to be asked to do that with a real consciousness that you are a contributor to something that in some ways already exists. And so I think for us, we really were looking for players that had a competitiveness about them. I think in Georgia, I think you see a kind of infectious joy and creativity in her game, and that sense of freedom, that sense of creativity very much embodies the kind of play that we want to pursue. I think in Sonya, her versatility is probably the dimension that I would name, that represents, I think, something that we hope will be true about lots of our Mystics players. I think her ability to have an impact on the game that, while seemingly quiet, is kind of that connective glue. She can kind of connect the dots. She can see what's needed and find a way to get in there. And her skills allow her to have an impact in that way. And I think in Kiki, we've just got an incredibly dynamic athleticism and just a motor, a real competitive motor. I think, you know, she has a range of skills that, you know, are obvious. Her adaptability, having moved from two offensive through two offensive systems in her collegiate career was apparent to us. And I think the tie that binds all of them is a real hunger to grow. I mean, to each of them, when we did have the chance to speak with them, they all expressed, on the one hand, a tremendous sense of confidence, and on the other hand, this sense that they're after something that's bigger than what they've already got. And that growth, that piece, that desire to develop, I think that really has tremendous synergy with how we're trying to grow as a franchise.
- [37:39]
Ben Pickman
Right. And how you're looking to kind of chart this next chapter that you and coach Sidney Johnson, who, who's also a first year head coach coming to the Mystics, are looking to build. Is there something you've learned about them in person this week? Just you met them for the first time. Is there one fact or one attribute that has just stuck with you as you've gotten to know them in person for the first time this week?
- [38:02]
Jamila Wideman
Yeah, it's really, really fun. You cannot predict the energy that a live human being carries when they walk into the room. As much as you think you can see, feel, hear through watching somebody play through, talking to them on Zoom. From the minute they got here, I would say one of the things that stuck out was their generosity with one another. They themselves sort of instantly connected. At our opening press conference, you could see them paying really close attention to what one another said. And also when somebody was sort of at the tail end or kind of struggling to answer a question, one of them would jump in and sort of take the ball and relieve the pressure in the moment. And watching them bond in that way was really, really fun and I think just injected a lot of excitement into all of us to get closer to the season, which is pretty close.
- [39:03]
Ben Pickman
It is certainly coming close. Training camps begin towards the end of this month. For all those that are listening, I guess at Your old job at the NBA, one of the things you were doing, and we talked about this years and years ago, is that you were responsible for the NBA programs that were designed to orient and educate rookies during their transition to the league. I guess. What do you plan on doing to help your rookies? And are there things that maybe you guys might be doing in Washington from your learned experience at your old job that you can now apply to this context?
- [39:33]
Jamila Wideman
I certainly hope to bring that experience along with me. I had an incredible team at the NBA and some incredibly creative and thoughtful people. So I will right now apologize to them for stealing many of their fantastic ideas that I can't really take credit for. But I think fundamentally, yes, we will be paying attention and really close attention to a number of transitions that will be happening for our team simultaneously in training camp. One of those transitions will be of our rookies and our draft picks making the leap to become professionals. Another of those transitions will of course be are returning veterans who are making the leap into a new squad and who are coming home from having played in various places this year. A couple of players overseas, a bunch of our players were in Miami at unrivaled. And so you've got this group coming from really, really different off season experiences that are going to come together and try to gel in a relatively short period of time. And so I think we'll be trying to pay attention and trying to program for each of our players out of respect for the particular kind of transition that they're trying to make. So we're looking forward to it. It's a big task. Last thing I'd say is our players are going to be partners in that process. So even though we have five draft picks coming in, they're five very different people. And so getting a sense of what each of them needs in their moment as they work to become professionals will be important. And as I said, our vets are going to be a big part of that as well.
- [41:12]
Ben Pickman
You know, I think it's clear from both even this conversation already and also just other conversations you've had in interviews, you've given just how you approach the, you know, holistic approach to the job and to thinking about people and athletes and not just what is going on on the court. I guess when you zoom out a little bit and you think about this current era of the WNBA and especially as a player, a former player, player who, you know, was there for literally year one, what do you kind of see your role as being in this moment, you know, in the Sport with all the growth and interest and, you know, the explosive period we're in.
- [41:46]
Jamila Wideman
Yeah, I, I'm. I feel incredibly grateful that I get to be a part of this league in this moment. And I think anyone who's touching this league in this moment probably has a sense that. But like many others, this is a special one. And having been there at the beginning, I think I feel a sense of pride to be watching, you know, our draft picks walk up to the stage and hold their jersey and be on the cusp of their dreams, I think has been just really moving and wonderful to watch and also grounding. Because anytime you're talking about a moment in the league, you're talking about the collective. And you're also just talking about the reality that there are a lot of individual people who are literally living out their dream in front of your eyes. And to me, what that means is carrying a consciousness, I think, of being a steward of the game. And I share that, I think, with a lot of players who were there at the beginning and a lot of players who were a part of this league back in 1997 and in the decades that followed who feel a sense of just responsibility to try to make sure that the eyes and the ears that are paying attention to our game now stay here. And that we both tell the stories of where we come from, but that we also find new ways to celebrate what is new talent. I mean, the level of basketball in this league now is absolutely tremendous. And it has grown and it is. Is different than when I played. And the young women who are playing are different than I was. And so finding ways to celebrate that growth is about celebrating new generations. And to me, the most exciting part of that is we don't know what's next. That's pretty fun. We don't know what's next because this new generation is going to leave their handprint overall.
- [43:53]
Ben Pickman
Right. And I guess building off that idea of kind of connectivity through generations. And I want to ask you a few more before we get you out of here. I read this essay that you wrote in 2001 when you had finished playing on a road trip that you took to the American South. I think it's a New York Times op ed called A Basketball Journey to the American South. And it's a really beautiful piece of writing. Honestly, I hope one day to write a personal op ed as touching and poignant with as many nice phrases as you have in that piece. So I will say that first, I guess, what did you learn about the sport of basketball? Kind of through that trip. And is there anything that that kind of sticks out with you all these years later that just informs about what you're now trying to do in terms of community and basketball and connectivity and a lot of these ideas mixing together?
- [44:41]
Jamila Wideman
Yeah. I took that trip through the south during the summer after my first year of law school. And so for me, it was my moment of transition out of the game and trying to find my feet somewhere else. And so I had spent a year in school fully focused on school, which is itself very strange, having been a student athlete for a long time. And I came out on the other side and I just, I missed the game tremendously. And so I decided to take this trip and just wanted to touch and sort of put myself back at the center of what the game looks like, feels like and sounds like. And for me, those memories were locked up in playground courts. It's how I grew up playing. It's how I learned the game. It's where my family history in the game was born. And that rhythm of the game that literally you hear in the sound of the ball hitting the ground, you hear in the sound of the net, whether that net is a cloth net or a chain link net, the hollow of having a backboard or not having a backboard. And so I took a trip to visit different courts and to learn how the game was living for people who just walked up with a basketball and some friends and wanted to play for a couple of hours. And so for me, it was almost like plugging back into the lifeblood of the game. And that, at the end of the day is about friendship. It's about sharing an unspoken love sometimes with strangers. And there's something incredibly powerful about that kind of union. And for me, that's what the game has always been about. And I think the WNBA in many ways has retained and held precious that kind of beating heart of the game. And I think that's part of what makes us very special.
- [46:41]
Ben Pickman
I guess just as we kind of then close it out on the topic of the beating heart that you're now kind of helping to oversee or steward, just assessing kind of the state of the franchise. And you touched on some of the qualities that you hope to that you've brought in in some of these players and that you hope to instill in years to come. Obviously Washington 14 and 26 last year, you guys haven't made it out of the first round since 2019. Just what does kind of success look like for you in the franchise in year one of this new era?
- [47:11]
Jamila Wideman
Yeah, I mean, I think what we're excited about is to build. I think we have some really great talent on our team. I think we're really conscious that. That we're probably not going to contend for a championship next year. But what we are going to do is put a game on the court that I think is really, really dynamic and fun, and we're going to be really, really competitive. I think if you come to watch us play, you're going to see the seeds of something that is really fun to be a part of. And I also think you're going to see us grow and get better every day, every game. And I think, you know, if. If watching our draft picks the other day come in is any indication, if watching some of our vets who have been working out and getting ready is any indication, you're going to come in and see just an incredibly talented group of women. And I think we are. Ultimately, we're interested in contending year over year. We're interested in creating a foundation that let us be contenders consistently, not a flash in the pan, not build a champion overnight model. I think we think that with the right culture and the right foundation, that the wins will become outcomes of that culture and of that foundation. It takes a tremendous amount of luck to win championships, and you can do a lot to influence that, but I think to say otherwise would lack a lot of humility. That it takes a lot of pieces to come together, and we don't hold all those pieces. We'll never hold all those pieces. So I think what we can do is make sure that when they do line up, that we're ready to take advantage of them and that we also be sure that when we do and when we win and when we start pulling championships, that when we do that, that that's a joyful moment. I've seen teams win without the joy, and it's not worth it. It's not worth the work, it's not worth the time. And so when we get there, we want to make sure that we've done it in a way that has invited the partnership of our players, has included the roots of the space that we're in here in D.C. there's folks on the ride along with us, and that when we're there, we can truly celebrate.
- [49:39]
Ben Pickman
I think it's kind of fitting to end with that and to think about the kind of journey that you've then had from picking up a cell phone in Tara Vandiver's CL to kind of planting a whole new batch of seeds with, you know, these rookies that you have coming in in this new era of the sport. So, Jamila Weidman, we appreciate you making some time and joining us on no off season.
- [49:59]
Jamila Wideman
Thanks a lot, Ben. Appreciate you.
- [50:08]
Zena Kato
Okay, thank you so much to Jamila and Ben for that wonderful conversation. That is going to be it for today. We will see you all on Tuesday to continue our preseason coverage of the WNBA and maybe touch a little bit on what's happening in the old NCAA transfer portal because yes, it is still lingering in our heads that kids are just floating out in the world right now. They're not, they're not enrolled, they're just floating. So we'll see what happens. If you're new here, hit that follow button wherever you're listening so you can stay up to date with us and please come find us on YouTube. Everyone's facial expressions are so much more entertaining in person. You definitely want to check them out. Leave a comment wherever you're listening. We read them and we'll do even better job to respond to them. So please continue to reach out and if you be so kind, go ahead and take those five stars out your pocket, lay them on the table, put them into the computer, phone, wherever you want to put us. Just give us a five star rating because we want to help new people find the show. And don't forget, as always, there's also more to read and watch over at our partner, the Yahoo. Sports Hustle. Check it out. Sports.yahoo.com women-sports how to slow it down? Don't want to mess it up. On behalf of the Athletic, I'm Zena Keda. Thanks for listening. We will see you next time. No off season is hosted by Zena Kada with Chantelle Jennings, Sabrina Merchant and Ben Pickman. It's produced by Tanika Perot. Our our executive producers are Andrea B. Scott and Cassius Fleming. Our theme music is by Marcus Begala. Brenna Haupt is our video editor. Shannon Ryan is managing editor of women's basketball at the Athletic. Jessie Burton is our head of audio and Tim McMaster is our director of audio operations.
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Ben Pickman
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Jamila Wideman
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