← No One is Coming to Save Us
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Lemonade.
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Are you looking for ways to make your everyday life happier, healthier, more productive, and more creative? I'm Gretchen Rubin, the number one bestselling author of the Happiness Project, bringing you fresh insights and practical solutions in the Happier with Gretchen Rubin podcast. My co host and happiness guinea pig is my sister, Elizabeth Craft. That's me, Elizabeth Craft, a TV writer and producer in Hollywood. Join us as we explore ideas and hacks about cultivating happiness and good habits. Check out Happier with Gretchen Rubin from Lemonada Media. Hi, this is Gloria Rivera, host of the podcast Good Things. I'm excited to share episode six of Thrive, a new six part series made in partnership with the Annie E. Casey foundation about what young people need to succeed in today's world. You can listen to the full series in this feed or by following Good Things in your favorite podcast app. When we think of basic needs, most of us think about things like food, housing and clean water, right? Well, there's another basic need that is just as important, one we don't talk about enough in this country. Childcare. For young parents, it is the foundation they need to make everything else possible. Earning a degree, working a job, and planning for the future. This episode is all about basic needs as part of the Annie E. Casey Foundation's six part series highlighting the five pillars that shape the path to adulthood. Today I'm talking with Bella Agee, a 21 year old college student, worker and mom. I'm also joined by Quinique Filard, Senior associate family and Youth financial at the Annie E. Casey Foundation. Together, they're going to help us understand what it really takes to be a student and a parent at the same time and why investing in childcare as a basic need benefits all of us. Quinique and Bella.
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A
Hi.
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B
Welcome to the show. We're so glad to have you with us.
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C
Thank you so much for having me. It's nice to meet you.
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A
Thanks for having us, Gloria. I'm really excited about this conversation today.
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B
I am too. I'm hoping to learn a lot. And what I want to start with is you, Bella. The most important question of this episode, and that is how is Ellie? How old is she now? About eight months.
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C
Ellie is good. Yes, she is. Eight months.
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B
Yeah. And what is she doing in eight months that she hasn't done before?
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C
Everything. She is crawling, climbing on everything. If you're familiar with 8 months old, they want to do everything all at once. Right?
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B
So is she scooting? Is she holding herself up and kind of scooting along? Oh, yes, yes, nodding. Well, get Ready for the walking. That is a game changer as well. But that's great to hear. She's doing so well. I'm gonna go to you now, Quinique, because this episode is about basic needs. And even though this is a very obvious question, I think it's one that's always worth asking. Tell us why childcare is a basic need.
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A
Yeah, that's a really good question. When we think about basic needs, you know, what we're really talking about are the resources that individuals and families need to survive. I think it's easy for us to think about things such having a roof over your head or food on your table or access to health care. In this country, the primary way that we secure those basic needs is through income. And that requires that parents either work to secure a paycheck or that they're enrolled in higher education, pursuing a degree or credential that will lead to a better job. For those parents. They need to know that their children, particularly those who are under the age of six, are in a healthy and safe environment. And so child care becomes a core need for them in order to participate in the workforce for education. Right. None of us can show up on this call without the acknowledge that your child is in a safe, nurturing environment, that if you can't provide it, then somebody else is there to provide that environment for them. And so when we think about child care, it's not a luxury. It is something that parents need in order to go out every day and earn an income or to pursue education in order to pursue a better job for their families.
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B
Right. You know, you said something interesting, which was, somebody else is there for a lot of people to make it all work. And we'll get back to that. First, Bella, I want you to take me back to your studying in Ireland. You're 20 years old. You find out that you're pregnant. And I'm curious who the first person you told was.
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C
Actually, no one's ever asked me that, but it was actually my brother. He was very shocked. Me and my brother had actually just lost our dad that same week, so we were both in a very emotional state. And I feel like I went to him because he kind of understood me more of where I was coming from. I didn't want to tell my entire family at that moment because everyone was so emotional over such major loss. But it's odd because I don't think I've ever really connected with my brother like that. So it was really great that I had told him first.
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B
So, Bella, you tell Your brother. You just lost your father. That sounds. Well, words fail me. That sounds like an incredibly difficult chapter for you. After the initial surprise, you know, shock wore off. Did you feel supported by him and other members of your family?
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C
Yes, and I was really amazed by the support that did come in. Even people that I hadn't really talked to a lot in my childhood, I was amazed to learn their stories and kind of similar situations from being a single mother and being at this age where you're still trying to navigate school, work, it was really amazing.
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B
So, Bella, you make a decision to come back to the U.S. can you tell us why you felt like that was the best choice for you at the time and where home is now for you?
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C
Yeah. So, in short, I decided to move back home because that's where my family support is.
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B
You knew you'd have your mom, your grandmother. There would be people around you, There would be a community. So now you're back and you're living where?
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C
I'm living in Columbia, Maryland. So my mother and my grandparents were directly around me, within 10 minutes of me as well.
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B
So let's get to childcare. Pretty soon after you realize I gotta find childcare for Ellie, what was that process like for you?
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C
Yeah, so I really started thinking about childcare even while I was pregnant, even whenever it came down to what jobs do I need to have to even hold down childcare for my daughter. I started looking around at a lot of places that were in my area. One of the facilities I actually went to had a discounted price of $500 a week, which I do not have. That equals up to about over $20,000 a year just on child care alone.
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B
So, Quenni, can you put into context for us here we have Bella, who's so wonderful and generous in sharing her story with us today. Can you put into context what childcare typically costs for infants and help us understand why it is that in this country, it is so expensive? So run us through what it looks like in this country for childcare. Anyone under the age of six, because really, people have children and we say, you know, wonderful, good for you. We'll see you in kindergarten.
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A
That is essentially how we treat childcare right now. We have places for kids who are K12, are older. Right. That's the K12 system. But for younger children, those in the age of five, the cost of providing that care is really on the shoulders of the parent. The average cost, I would say, is around 11,000 a year. I live in D.C. where the costs are running up closer to 20,000. When you think about the cost of college at a public institution, you're getting pretty close to those costs. If you have more than two children who require childcare, that is more than your rent or your mortgage. And so the costs are really high. And then when you think about the family makeup. Right. Are we talking about a two parent household where you have multiple incomes, or are you talking about a single parent? When we talk about a single parent, it tends to eat up more of their household budget. So they have little space for either of those basic needs that they have to cover.
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B
Yeah, I mean, it's an impossibility. You know, we hear so much about how those early spots are so hard to secure. So, Bella, when did you hear about the Children's Learning center? And were you sort of juggling, okay, I want to get back into school. I also need a job. When did the Children's Learning center appear on your radar?
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C
I had heard of the Children's Learning center from my time as a student here at Howard Community College. And during the process of trying to find jobs, I had gotten my job here at Howard Community College. And one of my colleagues was talking about how the Children's Learning center has expanded to below two years, which I automatically was like, yes, let me get my daughter into that. And then it was just a matter of applying and getting my daughter into it.
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B
Now you have the job, you're also studying, and she has childcare. What did it feel like for all those things to come together?
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C
It felt amazing. It felt like it was all coming into play.
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B
Like you were saying, was Ellie hitting her milestones after spending time at the Children's Learning center in a way she hadn't been before?
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C
Oh, 100%. She was actually starting to exceed her milestones. So she was already standing by like five months, which is apparently very, very early. And I think it was within about two months of her being at the Children's Learning Center. She was already crawling.
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B
Wow. Well, you can have some bragging rights to that. Quanique, back to you. There's been so much research about what quality child care actually does for a child's development. And we just heard from Bella that Ellie is really hitting those milestones. And can you talk about the importance of that, especially in those early, early years?
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A
One, I can just imagine your daughter just walking around and how much joy and pride that would give you, as well as to pick her up from the childcare center and to be able to interact with the educators. Right. Her teach to share that joy. We know a lot from baby brain development about how important those first five years of life are. A lot of the long standing evidence tells us that within those first years, especially those first three years, a baby is forming a million neurons per second. That's when they're developing their skills for language, for learning and social development. But it's also important to remember that they're not doing this in isolation. It's being really shaped by the relationship that they hold. Relationships with their parents, with their teachers, the other adults in their lives who are interacting with them daily by talking to them, by playing with them, just those everyday moments. That's really what's contributing to the wiring of their brains. And so when we think about where that development happens as well, you know, we're seeing that it happens when Ellie is at home with Bella. It happens when she's at school with her teachers. It happens if she's interacting with her grandparents. With any adult. What they're doing is they're providing that stability, healthy relationships, good interactions. That's helping set her up for her longtime well being that will allow her to be a functioning adult in society.
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B
We're going to take a quick break, but we will be right back with more on good things. Bella, tell me what it means to be a parent and a student at the same time. Time. And I'm curious to know what your typical day looks like, balancing all of that studying, working and being a mom.
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C
I will say it is challenging, but it is always something different. My day starts early and it ends late. I'm up with my baby at the crack of dawn getting her ready to go to the children's learning center and then I'm off to work. Even after I pick her up, I'm still engaging in playtime before I do any of my homework.
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B
And when do you do your homework? And I know what that's like to have a child that young. It feels like bedtime for the baby can't come soon enough.
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C
That is so true. So typically in between her nap times or in the evenings or weekends is when I do my homework.
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B
Quinni, you know, we often hear that parenting students like Bella are described as non traditional, which I have some issues with that wording because it just, I don't know. To me it carries a little bit of judgment in it. Like what's so great about being traditional? It does seem like that framing is changing. How would you describe student parents as a group today?
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A
Well, I thank you just for acknowledging that. How the terminology itself doesn't match up with the reality of today's. College students, if I had to describe who are student parents today. They're a part of this current generation of today's college students. They are the new norm, right? Think about who that traditional college student is, what image we hold. We do tend to think about more of that 18 to 22 year old, right? Who's going to live on campus, who's fully supported by their families, their only job is to study and make good grades. We also tend to think more about students who are going to four year institutions. But the reality is that that is no longer the norm and it hasn't been for the longest time that we're seeing a more divers, diverse cohort of students. We're seeing that today's students that they're juggling a lot more high. Percentages are working about 40%. We're seeing that one in five of all undergraduates are raising children while in school. We're seeing that more students are low income, more students are first generation and many are under some real financial strain. We started by talking about childcare as a basic needs, right? When we think about basic needs and security, we're seeing that 59% of today's students face some type of basic needs and security. I think it's also important to think about where those students attend school. We're seeing that more than half of today's students are enrolled in community colleges or minority serving institutions. They're going to schools that are closer to their homes, right? Because they're more affordable, they have open access admissions. So the idea of what is the model of higher education and who are today's students is evolved to be much more diverse than previous generations.
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B
I'm so struck by one of those Data points that 59% of parent students are facing a financial hardship, right? That is a huge percentage. And we're talking about housing insecurity, food insecurity, far less of a financial cushion. Can you tell me a little bit more about the data that shows that and what is it specifically that makes parent students especially vulnerable compared to their non parenting peers?
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A
I think I might start by saying that when again, when we look at who today's students are, many are facing challenges in attending and completing higher education. When we lean into student parents, I think there are a few factors that make it especially challenging for them. Bella started by describing everything that she's balancing, right? Work, education and school and parenting. That's what we're calling time poverty, right? Not enough time to do everything that you need to do within 24 hours. They are Just balancing a lot while trying to make good grades. Right. But then we see some other hardships that start to show up. They are supporting families and they do have that responsibility and something that they take to heart around needing to earn an income and provide for their children. And so that does require that they work. Right. We also see that relates to that there's financial insecurity we're seeing that many student parents cannot cover a $500 unexpected emergency. What happens if their car breaks down? How are they going to give a child to child care, make it to work, and then to school? So it's kind of all of these compounding factors that show up when we look at student parents. And don't forget the cost of childcare being a very high factor on their household budgets. And so when you just take all of these compounding factors and that their core respons is to be a parent is to raise a child, the pressure is just intense there. And so we see that they enroll in school and they're trying to make it all work. But when you take into consideration their basic needs and security, as well as the fact that maybe their school is not as supportive as it could be, it makes everything just that much harder.
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C
Right.
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B
I can't imagine. I mean, Bella, what are the ways that meeting your basic needs as a young mom made it possible for you to return to school?
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C
Yeah, it took a lot of courage and support. Honestly, I'm very blessed to have my support system. That is something I'm very, very grateful for. And that really helped empower me to even consider going back to school. There was a period where I was like, why would I even consider going back to school? I'm going to end up in debt anyway. But really, it's just that courage to make me go out and do it made me see the bigger picture.
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B
Yes. A support system behind you. How is school going for you? I know you're doing some of it remotely. Where are you enrolled now? And how are there ways that you see every day that it's working well for you as a parent? And what about it is challenging?
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C
So I'm currently enrolled in Arizona State University. I actually really like the remote. The remote part about it. It's really helping with the flexibility of balancing work and being a mom at the same time. And it's going pretty good so far. I'm still on track to graduate with my bachelor's next year.
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B
What are you studying?
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C
I'm in their criminology and criminal justice program.
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B
You are? Wow.
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A
Wow.
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B
That is so great. So Quinnique data shows that for a single mom with a degree, for example, which Bella is soon to receive, that they will earn hundreds of thousands of dollars more over her lifetime than that woman would with just a high school diploma. And that really stayed with me, that fact. So clearly, that shows us all, and we've heard this, that investing in parenting students makes a massive difference in their lives. So as you look at the landscape now, what do you see that schools could do even better to support them?
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A
I think there's a lot that institutions can do to support student parents. I start by saying that the most consistent things that we hear from student parents is just that they feel invisible on campus. And in our work, when we work with institutions, kind of the starting place, the starting question is, do you know who your student parents are and what are the challenges that they face? And that usually takes a lot of effort to get that information right. We have those numbers of who student parents are at the national level, but we don't have it on campus, by campus. And so schools have to invest a lot to identify who are student parents. So they're having to do things like survey students to identify who are student parents or host focus groups with student parents to understand what are the challenges they face and how do we better support you. Once schools understand that population, it's then engaging them to help design the solutions that's going to work for them. This will look different on every campus, but it really is, I would say, important that you engage those student parents directly so you can develop those solutions. We're seeing that schools are adopting a few different practices on how do you support student parents. The first is just offering navigation support as well as thinking about financial supports. That could look like designating a student parent liaison to help them think about how do you manage your different responsibilities and how do you navigate the higher education system. It can also include things like helping them figure out how do you include your child care costs and your cost of attendance and your financial aid package. We're also seeing that schools can develop partnerships with local nonprofits to help address some of those basic needs and security Housing as an example. When you talk about a community college especially, they don't always have on campus housing. So working with a nonprofit can help them think about how do we address this need. Bella mentioned how flexible arrangements can help her stay involved. We're seeing that things such as online learning can make a difference as well. As we saw that California passed legislation that gives student parents priority registration, which means that they. They get to make sure that their classes fit in with their other responsibilities and that can make a big difference. And I think more than anything, we're seeing that institutions are becoming more family friendly campuses. Something as simple as making sure that there are parking spots for parents with children or thinking about how do we make sure that we provide them with space where they can bring their children to campus and study and the child can be there as well, reading a book or playing a game. These are small things, but there are things that make a big difference.
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B
They absolutely make a huge difference. In Quanique, I just love how granular you went from things like a parking spot to priority registration. Early on you said that some of what you hear is that parent students can feel invisible on campus and that they need to be engaged in finding the solutions. Quenni, can you tell us why it is so important that those parent student voices are included in conversations about what their lived experience in real time is like and what they would like to see going forward?
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A
So leadership faculty and staff on college campuses, they're well intentioned, right? They're deeply committed to serving their students. They're also bringing in their own experiences, like what was it like for them when they went through college? Right. We only hold our own experiences when we think about how to design policy. And so I don't want to dismiss that because they are well intentioned. But what we see in our work is that when systems try to redesign programs for other populations, they're relying a lot on assumptions. What do we think we know about what this population needs and want?
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C
Months.
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A
It's not until they directly engage that population, in this case student parents, where they can truly understand what the challenges are and what would support them. I would offer that. I've been in conversations where a light bulb goes off where a student parent names something and then names a solution and they stun the entire audience. Right? No one else thought about this as an example. Connecting to resources. Many college campuses will say that we have resources available to support parenting students. When we hear from parenting students, they didn't know about these, right. They were not widely available and the school might say, well, they were online on the website. And the student parent might respond and say, well, this is how we receive information. Could you put this on the syllabus for this class? Could you put this on social media?
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C
Right.
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A
It's those innovative solutions that will result in solutions that actually meet the need and that will be taken up. It is a to figure out how do you work with student parents, how do you Engage them and listen to them and to lean into their leadership and their expertise to design solutions that will lead to outcomes that make a big difference.
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B
I love that phrasing, lean into their leadership. Because when I think about students like Bella, I'm struck by everything that she's juggling. And I wish that all students could see that. Right. That they could acknowledge that, that they could recognize what a high degree of. Of time management, all the things that go into making that work. You know, we've talked about the fact that there's a sizable portion of students who are actually parents, and yet that can still feel isolating. So I'm curious what schools can do to shift that, to normalize that reality.
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A
Again, there are very small things that schools can do. For example, are they showing student parents in their brochures? Right. If you're a student and you walk on campus, how do you know that this campus is welcoming of your identity as a student parent? Are they showing adults with children? Right. So that's one thing of making them feel welcome. We're also seeing that schools are supporting peer groups for student parents for them to come together and just have conversations, share resources, talk about their experiences. We're seeing that some colleges are starting advisory groups for student parents doing things such as designating that liaison of, if you're a student parent, here's someone you can talk with to help help you navigate. And then it gets down to the. What services and supports are they offering? Howard Community College has this on campus childcare center that makes a big difference. It says that we hear you and we're offering this support. We're seeing that schools are leaning into things such as offering food pantries. Right. So it's hearing and then helping to identify both those light lift solutions, but also those solutions that will get to some of your deeper basic needs.
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C
Right.
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B
All the solutions matter. And Bella, I just can't imagine what it would have been like to see a brochure and see a student, you know, holding the hand of a toddler in that brochure. That kind of image projects a message of welcome and invitation to be a part of that community. What do you wish people understood about what it actually takes to be a student and a parent at the same time?
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C
Oh, that's such a tough question. But the most important part about what I wish people would know about parenting students is what it means to actually balance all those roles. It's not, oh, you do work and let me do school another time. It's, you have to find a perfect balance of all three things, being a mom, in my instance, working and going to school.
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B
Okay, sit tight everyone. We're going to take one more quick break.
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A
Break.
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B
And we'll be right back with more good things. Quinnique, I think it's easy to see how childcare can support individuals like Bella, you know, those who are in school and parenting at the same time. But you've also spoken before about how it's a public good. We all benefit when parents have access to care. Can you, can you talk about how providing that kind of support in any way, shape or form really benefits all of us?
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A
So childcare is what makes it possible for parents to participate in the workforce. When we think about businesses and their ability to get workers, a parent cannot enter or remain in the workforce if they don't have that childcare. And actually what we see in a lot of data is that a lot of parents, especially women, they stop out and when a employer business loses that parent, then they're having to recruit and pay calls to identify a new worker. Right? When we provide childcare, what we're ensuring is that that economy has the workers, has the finances right to be productive, to be robust. And so childcare, when we think about it, it really is, I like the term of it's the workforce behind the workforce, right? It is what allows us to make sure that all the other parts of keep moving. My child is in a healthy space, therefore I can go and I can contribute to society. And that child is also being invested in and being prepared to contribute in the future, right?
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B
That's such a good answer. And we have so much data that supports it, right? We have the data that shows not only are we helping someone join the workforce, that someone will contribute taxes to a better community. You know, the domino effect is really quite endless. How can people get involved? And if they're inspired by listening to this, what can they do?
- [29:46]
A
I think that I ask listeners to start by asking what role do they hold? Perhaps you're the CEO of a company, you're a manager, a professor, or someone just in a decision making role. And if you're in that role, I'd ask that you think about how parents show up in your environment. Do you know who your parents are? Do you know the challenges that they're facing? And then what are the policies that you guys have in place to support that parent? How do you think about childcare? Do you offer it directly? Do you provide subsidies? Or do you help them identify childcare? And not only that, but also make it a personal conversation how does providing child care contribute to your employee retention? How does it contribute to your student success rate, your productivity rate? Right. There's a business case for investing in childcare. And so do you understand that if you're a parent listening to this conversation, I remind you that your voice matters. That by you talking about the challenges that you face by connecting with other parents, you lean in and you make yourself seem feel you get the support you need, but also you're prepared to advocate and engage other decision makers in the conversation and help them understand how they can lean in into this conversation more. Also, if you're not a parent, this also matters to you. We will all be caregivers at some point, whether that's your own child, whether you're going to care for a parent, or you're just going to need caregiving yourself. Right. And so when we talk about making these environments family friendly for student parents, we're really also talking about how do we make it so that work environments, that education environments, think about who we are as individuals and what supports we need. And so when we make it work for student parents, we're making it work for everyone else and we're all going to need this.
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B
I love that when we make it work for student parents, we're making it work for all of this and we need it. Bella, to wrap up, I'm curious what's next for you? You're working, you're getting your education, you're caring for Ellie. What do you hope the future looks like from where you are right now?
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C
Well, things are definitely looking up. I'm still on track to graduate next year, which is very exciting for me. I'm excited for all the opportunities that will come for me and my daughter and. And she's still doing great in the Children's Learning Center.
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B
That's so wonderful. That gives me great confidence that, Bella, you're on to just absolutely fabulous things and so is Ellie. So I'm cheering from here for the work that Annie Casey foundation does and for all the student parents out there. Thank you both so much.
- [32:23]
C
Thank you so much.
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A
Thank you. Gloria and Bella, it was such a pleasure to meet you and hear more about your story.
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B
This episode was made possible with support from the Annie E. Casey foundation. Learn more@aecf.org views expressed in this episode are solely those of the participants. I'm your host, Gloria Rivera. This episode was produced by Hannah Boomersheim, mixing in sound design by Bobby Woody. Jackie Danziger is our SVP of content production support from Maggie Croucher, executive producers are Stephanie Whittles Wax and Jessica Cordova Kramer Helen help others find our show by leaving us a rating and writing a review. Follow Good Things wherever you get your podcasts and listen ad free on Amazon Music with your prime membership. Thanks so much for listening. We'll see you next week.