Podcast
No Small Endeavor with Lee C. Camp
Hosted by Tokens Media · EN
What does it really mean to live a good life—in our politics, our faith, our work, and our relationships?
On No Small Endeavor with Lee C. Camp, we explore the ideas, practices, and public debates that shape human flourishing today. Each week you’ll hear thought-provoking conversations with bestselling authors, philosophers, neuroscientists, psychologists, theologians, artists, and political leaders—people wrestling with the biggest questions of meaning and purpose in our time.
Together we ask:
How can religion be a force for healing instead of division?
What does neuroscience reveal about happiness, habits, and productivity?
Where do politics and justice meet the pursuit of the common good?
How do truth, beauty, and goodness help us live well—personally and collectively?
If you care about faith, politics, social justice, science, or the search for meaning, you’ll find courageous, practical conversations here. Because pursuing a meaningful life is no small endeavor—and we’re with you on the road.
Learn more at nosmallendeavor.com.
65episodes
Episodes
Newest firstAll episodes
The Subtext: More Money, More Problems?
5d ago00:48:02Tap to summarizeElon Musk became the world’s first trillionaire! If that doesn’t make you want to talk about money, nothing will. The world just got its first trillionaire in Elon Musk. While Lee and Savannah aren’t trillionaires, they’ve got their own stories to tell about money. This episode is an open conversation about what we’ve learned about money, what we’d do differently, and how Christians can think about money better. Things we mentioned in this episode: Anne-Laure Le Cunff (tiny experiments) on No Small Endeavor Unconditional on Apple TV Daniel and Kelly's Extraordinary Universe podcast Poverty, by America by Matthew Desmond 40% OFF SCANDALOUS WITNESS: Use code WITNESS40. Code is good for 40% off the paperback of Scandalous Witness. Only valid when ordering on Eerdmans.com, only valid for USA shipping addresses. Code is good until end of 2026. Follow The Subtext: Instagram | Threads | X | YouTube | TikTok Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter | Lee's Newsletter Follow Savannah: Instagram | Substack Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
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270: Curtis Chang: The Real Thing Driving American Politics
1w ago00:50:44Tap to summarizeWhat if our institutions, even the broken ones, are worth saving? Curtis Chang doesn't think you can understand American politics right now unless you understand one thing, and it isn't what you'd expect. It isn't policy or party. It's fear: an anxiety about future loss that “both” sides are quietly managing, with liberals afraid of having religion imposed on their lives and conservatives afraid of losing a tradition they love. Chang, the founder of Good Faith and co-author of The After Party with David French and Russell Moore, has spent his life as a bridge person, ever since he arrived from Taiwan at age three. Here, he and Lee trace that fear all the way down to our institutions, which Curtis argues are not systems to build up or tear down, but people, and therefore worth repairing. Show Notes, Resources, and Transcript for abridged episode with Curtis Chang Thank you to our sponsors: Hiya: Receive 50% off your first order on any of their products. Visit hiyahealth.com/NSE! The Wonder Project: Subscriber support makes more great content like I Gotta Ask with Annie F. Downs possible. The Wonder Project subscription on Prime Video is available in the U.S. for $8.99/month or $89.99/year after a 7-day free trial. Visit IGottaAsk.com to learn more! Join NSE+ — our subscriber-only community — for ad-free listening, member-only bonus content, and early access to live show tickets. Your membership helps make No Small Endeavor sustainable. No Small Endeavor: An award-winning podcast that asks what it means to live a good life. Through conversations with leading thinkers across theology, philosophy, psychology, politics, and the social sciences, we explore human flourishing, meaning and purpose, faith and culture, science and religion, virtue and character, religion and spirituality, community, and the practices that help shape a good life grounded in truth, beauty, and goodness. Follow @nosmallendeavor Host Lee C. Camp: Lee has worked as a professor of theology & ethics for more than 25 years, teaching and writing on topics of faith & politics, inter-religious dialog, and human flourishing at the intersection of theology, moral philosophy, and social sciences. Follow @leeccamp Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
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269: Unabridged Interview: James Kimmel, Jr.
1w ago01:12:27Tap to summarizeThis is our unabridged interview with James Kimmel, Jr. There's a grievance that keeps coming back to you: in the shower, in traffic, at two in the morning. You replay it, win the argument again and settle the score again. It feels like justice, but it never quite satisfies. James Kimmel Jr. spent decades trying to understand that pull. At seventeen, he came within seconds of committing a mass shooting, then drove away and devoted his life to the question of why he had wanted it so badly. Now on the faculty of Yale's medical school, he makes a startling, evidence-backed claim: revenge is a literal addiction. A grievance activates the pain network in your brain, and your brain reaches for the dopamine hit of payback. It's why mass shooters are "grievance collectors," and why social media, in his words, has become a grievance transmission machine. But there's a second half to the story. Forgiveness, he argues, is a wonder drug we're already hardwired to take, one that stops the pain rather than masking it and asks nothing of the person who wronged you. Lee is invited to try it on the spot during the interview, and you can hear what happens. Listen as they discuss James’ new book, The Science of Revenge: Understanding the World's Deadliest Addiction - and How to Overcome It. Name the Grievance Revenge often begins with real pain, and recognizing that pain is the first step toward freedom. Understand Your Brain Kimmel explains how grievance activates the brain’s pain network and makes retaliation feel rewarding. Resist Revenge Culture From social media to entertainment, our culture often trains us to nurse grievances and seek payback. Forgive Without Excusing Forgiveness does not require pardon, reconciliation, or staying in unsafe relationships; it can be an internal act of healing. Practice Letting Go Imagining forgiveness, even briefly, can interrupt pain and open space for better choices. Heal the Common Good Kimmel suggests that forgiveness is not only personal medicine but a social good that can help communities flourish. Show Notes, Resources, and Transcript for abridged episode with James Kimmel, Jr. Thank you to our sponsors: Hiya: Receive 50% off your first order on any of their products. Visit hiyahealth.com/NSE! The Wonder Project: Subscriber support makes more great content like I Gotta Ask with Annie F. Downs possible. The Wonder Project subscription on Prime Video is available in the U.S. for $8.99/month or $89.99/year after a 7-day free trial. Visit IGottaAsk.com to learn more! Join NSE+ — our subscriber-only community — for ad-free listening, member-only bonus content, and early access to live show tickets. Your membership helps make No Small Endeavor sustainable. No Small Endeavor: An award-winning podcast that asks what it means to live a good life. Through conversations with leading thinkers across theology, philosophy, psychology, politics, and the social sciences, we explore human flourishing, meaning and purpose, faith and culture, science and religion, virtue and character, religion and spirituality, community, and the practices that help shape a good life grounded in truth, beauty, and goodness. Follow @nosmallendeavor Host Lee C. Camp: Lee has worked as a professor of theology & ethics for more than 25 years, teaching and writing on topics of faith & politics, inter-religious dialog, and human flourishing at the intersection of theology, moral philosophy, and social sciences. Follow @leeccamp Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
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Songwriter Thomm Jutz on Turning a Dark Inheritance Into Something Beautiful
2w ago00:18:17Tap to summarizeCan creativity transform the darkness of your past? Lee sits down with Grammy-nominated songwriter Thomm Jutz to discuss his grandfather's suicide, apparently after he was unable to come to terms with the fact that he'd been a Nazi, a friend lost to alcoholism, and Carl Jung's aid in his life, all while sharing songs he's written that helped heal his own inherited darkness. This episode is a preview of a longer conversation. The full discussion is available in the NSE+ community. 👉 Join NSE+ HERE Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
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The Subtext: Is Nate Bargatze Guilty by Association?
2w ago00:41:34Tap to summarizeWhat does it mean when a “clean” and “family friendly” comedian supports the UFC Freedom 250 fight, rubbing shoulders with unethical and greedy billionaires? This isn’t really about Nate Bargatze. It's about all of us and the selective moral lines we draw. This week on The Subtext, Lee and Savannah wrestle with questions of public witness, private relationships, power, and consistency, looking to Jesus' encounters with both the oppressed and the powerful. In a world where every public act seems to communicate something, how do we live with integrity while practicing a morality that refuses to leave anyone behind? Things we mentioned in this episode: Scandalous Witness by Lee C. Camp Who Is My Enemy? by Lee C. Camp Mere Discipleship by Lee C. Camp Missing Me by Ayana Lage Biological War: A Scenario by Annie Jacobsen (episode out on No Small Endeavor July 27th!) Savannah's Substack article: "The toothless, selective moralism of a Nate Bargatze Christianity" Musa al-Gharbi on No Small Endeavor Brother to a Dragonfly by Will Campbell The Cross and the Lynching Tree by James Cone Loretta Ross on No Small Endeavor 40% OFF SCANDALOUS WITNESS: Use code WITNESS40. Code is good for 40% off the paperback of Scandalous Witness. Only valid when ordering on Eerdmans.com, only valid for USA shipping addresses. Code is good until end of 2026. Follow The Subtext: Instagram | Threads | X | YouTube | TikTok Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter | Lee's Newsletter Follow Savannah: Instagram | Substack Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
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269: James Kimmel, Jr.: Your Brain on Revenge
2w ago00:51:02Tap to summarizeThere's a grievance that keeps coming back to you: in the shower, in traffic, at two in the morning. You replay it, win the argument again and settle the score again. It feels like justice, but it never quite satisfies. James Kimmel Jr. spent decades trying to understand that pull. At seventeen, he came within seconds of committing a mass shooting, then drove away and devoted his life to the question of why he had wanted it so badly. Now on the faculty of Yale's medical school, he makes a startling, evidence-backed claim: revenge is a literal addiction. A grievance activates the pain network in your brain, and your brain reaches for the dopamine hit of payback. It's why mass shooters are "grievance collectors," and why social media, in his words, has become a grievance transmission machine. But there's a second half to the story. Forgiveness, he argues, is a wonder drug we're already hardwired to take, one that stops the pain rather than masking it and asks nothing of the person who wronged you. Lee is invited to try it on the spot during the interview, and you can hear what happens. Listen as they discuss James’ new book, The Science of Revenge: Understanding the World's Deadliest Addiction - and How to Overcome It. Name the Grievance Revenge often begins with real pain, and recognizing that pain is the first step toward freedom. Understand Your Brain Kimmel explains how grievance activates the brain’s pain network and makes retaliation feel rewarding. Resist Revenge Culture From social media to entertainment, our culture often trains us to nurse grievances and seek payback. Forgive Without Excusing Forgiveness does not require pardon, reconciliation, or staying in unsafe relationships; it can be an internal act of healing. Practice Letting Go Imagining forgiveness, even briefly, can interrupt pain and open space for better choices. Heal the Common Good Kimmel suggests that forgiveness is not only personal medicine but a social good that can help communities flourish. Show Notes, Resources, and Transcript for abridged episode with James Kimmel, Jr. Thank you to our sponsors: Hiya: Receive 50% off your first order on any of their products. Visit hiyahealth.com/NSE! The Wonder Project: Subscriber support makes more great content like I Gotta Ask with Annie F. Downs possible. The Wonder Project subscription on Prime Video is available in the U.S. for $8.99/month or $89.99/year after a 7-day free trial. Visit IGottaAsk.com to learn more! Join NSE+ — our subscriber-only community — for ad-free listening, member-only bonus content, and early access to live show tickets. Your membership helps make No Small Endeavor sustainable. No Small Endeavor: An award-winning podcast that asks what it means to live a good life. Through conversations with leading thinkers across theology, philosophy, psychology, politics, and the social sciences, we explore human flourishing, meaning and purpose, faith and culture, science and religion, virtue and character, religion and spirituality, community, and the practices that help shape a good life grounded in truth, beauty, and goodness. Follow @nosmallendeavor Host Lee C. Camp: Lee has worked as a professor of theology & ethics for more than 25 years, teaching and writing on topics of faith & politics, inter-religious dialog, and human flourishing at the intersection of theology, moral philosophy, and social sciences. Follow @leeccamp Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
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268: Unabridged Interview: Lee C. Camp
2w ago01:10:47Tap to summarizeThis is our unabridged interview with Lee C. Camp. In a rare role reversal, No Small Endeavor host Lee C. Camp takes the guest seat as theologian and journalist Russell Moore interviews him about his book, releasing in paperback July 2nd, Scandalous Witness: A Little Political Manifesto for Christians. Rather than offering a defense of Christian power in America, Lee reckons honestly with the ways Christians have often been bad neighbors, especially when faith has been reduced to “values” extracted from the story of Jesus and used to control others. Together, Lee and Russell explore how Christian witness might still serve the common good through humility, prudence, and the imaginative power of art. In a divided and weary public life, this episode asks what it would mean for Christians, and all people seeking the good life, to trade domination for service, despair for action, and ideology for the patient work of human flourishing. Show Notes, Resources, and Transcript for abridged episode with Lee C. Camp Thank you to our sponsors: Hiya: Receive 50% off your first order on any of their products. Visit hiyahealth.com/NSE! The Wonder Project: Subscriber support makes more great content like I Gotta Ask with Annie F. Downs possible. The Wonder Project subscription on Prime Video is available in the U.S. for $8.99/month or $89.99/year after a 7-day free trial. Visit IGottaAsk.com to learn more! Join NSE+ — our subscriber-only community — for ad-free listening, member-only bonus content, and early access to live show tickets. Your membership helps make No Small Endeavor sustainable. No Small Endeavor: An award-winning podcast that asks what it means to live a good life. Through conversations with leading thinkers across theology, philosophy, psychology, politics, and the social sciences, we explore human flourishing, meaning and purpose, faith and culture, science and religion, virtue and character, religion and spirituality, community, and the practices that help shape a good life grounded in truth, beauty, and goodness. Follow @nosmallendeavor Host Lee C. Camp: Lee has worked as a professor of theology & ethics for more than 25 years, teaching and writing on topics of faith & politics, inter-religious dialog, and human flourishing at the intersection of theology, moral philosophy, and social sciences. Follow @leeccamp Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
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The Subtext: Scandalous Witness with Lee C. Camp
3w ago00:44:52Tap to summarizeThe paperback edition of Lee's book just dropped, and Savannah's got questions! Savannah and Lee are celebrating the paperback release of Scandalous Witness by working through the book’s big ideas: why Christianity is not a religion but a politic, liberalism, Romans 13, the dream of a Christian America, and, perhaps most important, why Lee can’t stand the word "countercultural.” Use code WITNESS40 for 40% off the paperback, and don't forget to enter the giveaway on Instagram. Things we mentioned in this episode: 40% OFF SCANDALOUS WITNESS: Use code WITNESS40. Code is good for 40% off the paperback of Scandalous Witness. Only valid when ordering on Eerdmans.com, only valid for USA shipping addresses. Code is good until end of 2026. ENTER TO WIN A FREE COPY: Follow @thesubtextshow and tag a friend to enter! Giveaway closes on Tuesday, July 7th, 2026 at 11:59pm CT. ORDER SCANDALOUS WITNESS: Amazon | Barnes & Nobel | Bookshop.org | Eerdmans Follow The Subtext: Instagram | Threads | X | YouTube | TikTok Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter | Lee's Newsletter Follow Savannah: Instagram | Substack Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
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268: Lee C. Camp: Christianity, Politics, and the Common Good
3w ago00:50:35Tap to summarizeIn a rare role reversal, No Small Endeavor host Lee C. Camp takes the guest seat as theologian and journalist Russell Moore interviews him about his book, releasing in paperback July 2nd, Scandalous Witness: A Little Political Manifesto for Christians. Rather than offering a defense of Christian power in America, Lee reckons honestly with the ways Christians have often been bad neighbors, especially when faith has been reduced to “values” extracted from the story of Jesus and used to control others. Together, Lee and Russell explore how Christian witness might still serve the common good through humility, prudence, and the imaginative power of art. In a divided and weary public life, this episode asks what it would mean for Christians, and all people seeking the good life, to trade domination for service, despair for action, and ideology for the patient work of human flourishing. Show Notes, Resources, and Transcript for abridged episode with Lee C. Camp Thank you to our sponsors: Hiya: Receive 50% off your first order on any of their products. Visit hiyahealth.com/NSE! The Wonder Project: Subscriber support makes more great content like I Gotta Ask with Annie F. Downs possible. The Wonder Project subscription on Prime Video is available in the U.S. for $8.99/month or $89.99/year after a 7-day free trial. Visit IGottaAsk.com to learn more! Join NSE+ — our subscriber-only community — for ad-free listening, member-only bonus content, and early access to live show tickets. Your membership helps make No Small Endeavor sustainable. No Small Endeavor: An award-winning podcast that asks what it means to live a good life. Through conversations with leading thinkers across theology, philosophy, psychology, politics, and the social sciences, we explore human flourishing, meaning and purpose, faith and culture, science and religion, virtue and character, religion and spirituality, community, and the practices that help shape a good life grounded in truth, beauty, and goodness. Follow @nosmallendeavor Host Lee C. Camp: Lee has worked as a professor of theology & ethics for more than 25 years, teaching and writing on topics of faith & politics, inter-religious dialog, and human flourishing at the intersection of theology, moral philosophy, and social sciences. Follow @leeccamp Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
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267: Unabridged Interview: Allison Russell
3w ago01:17:56Tap to summarizeThis is our unabridged interview with Allison Russell. How does someone turn a childhood marked by danger and loss into a life full of music, courage, and joy? Allison Russell’s life has been marked by trauma, survival, and a persistent return to beauty. After leaving an abusive home as a teenager and finding refuge in the streets and music of Montreal, she slowly discovered that art could become more than escape. It could become a way to tell the truth and stay alive. In this conversation, Russell reflects on the making of her breakthrough album Outside Child, the ancestral stories shaping her upcoming memoir, and the hard-won practices of forgiveness, motherhood, and community that help her keep choosing joy. Key ideas in this episode: Choose Joy Anyway Russell describes joy not as denial, but as a daily practice that can coexist with grief, trauma, and uncertainty. Transform Pain Through Art Music becomes a refuge, a release, and a way of metabolizing suffering into something that can help others heal. Recover Your Lineage Russell’s search for her biological father and Black family history reveals how ancestry can deepen identity, resilience, and belonging. Break Cycles of Harm Forgiveness, for Russell, is not excusing abuse but refusing to let vengeance determine the shape of her life. Practice Radical Belonging Her work in harm reduction and housing equality taught her that every person deserves safety, dignity, and loving kindness. Return to the Body Walking, running, yoga, nature, and music help Russell stay grounded while doing the difficult inner work of memoir and memory. Show Notes, Resources, and Transcript for abridged episode with Allison Russell Thank you to our sponsors: Hiya: Receive 50% off your first order on any of their products. Visit hiyahealth.com/NSE! The Wonder Project: Subscriber support makes more great content like I Gotta Ask with Annie F. Downs possible. The Wonder Project subscription on Prime Video is available in the U.S. for $8.99/month or $89.99/year after a 7-day free trial. Visit IGottaAsk.com to learn more! Join NSE+ — our subscriber-only community — for ad-free listening, member-only bonus content, and early access to live show tickets. Your membership helps make No Small Endeavor sustainable. No Small Endeavor: An award-winning podcast that asks what it means to live a good life. Through conversations with leading thinkers across theology, philosophy, psychology, politics, and the social sciences, we explore human flourishing, meaning and purpose, faith and culture, science and religion, virtue and character, religion and spirituality, community, and the practices that help shape a good life grounded in truth, beauty, and goodness. Follow @nosmallendeavor Host Lee C. Camp: Lee has worked as a professor of theology & ethics for more than 25 years, teaching and writing on topics of faith & politics, inter-religious dialog, and human flourishing at the intersection of theology, moral philosophy, and social sciences. Follow @leeccamp Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
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