NO SUCH THING – “Can humans be cloned?” (Jan 28, 2026)

Podcast: NO SUCH THING
Hosts: Manny, Noah, Devin
Guest: Chelsea Boeber Smith (American Hysteria), Prof. Henry Greely (Stanford; bioethics/biolaw)
Theme: Investigating the fascination and science behind celebrity clone conspiracies and whether human cloning is actually possible.

Episode Overview

This episode delves into the enduring world of celebrity clone conspiracy theories—why people believe them, their cultural impact, and what’s actually possible with cloning. The hosts team up with Chelsea Boeber Smith of American Hysteria to unpack iconic clone rumors and conspiracy lore, and talk with Stanford bioethics professor Henry Greely to get a scientific reality check.

1. The Culture of Celebrity Clone Conspiracies

[00:55 – 06:18]

Common Celebrity Clone Theories

• Weight Loss & Behavior Changes = Clone?

  • Gucci Mane: Dramatic transformation post-prison led to allegations of cloning ([01:20]).
    • “He was in much better shape...people were like, wow, they cloned him while he was in there.” – Manny ([01:41])
  • Jamie Foxx and rapid recovery post-illness ([02:33]).
  • Melania Trump: Speculation she sent a body double to official events, a theory even “normal” people share ([03:22]).

• Classic Rumors

  • Avril Lavigne: Alleged replacement by a double named “Melissa.” ([04:45])
  • Taylor Swift: Claimed clone or twin of Anton LaVey’s daughter (Satanic Panic; uncanny resemblance in side-by-side photos) ([05:05]).

“There’s like a lot of body double/clone crossover.” – Chelsea ([05:06])

• Conspiracy Logic
  • Absence fuels rumors: “If you don’t see a public person in person for a bit, they think that’s when the cloning stuff is happening.” – Devin ([03:04])
  • Clone stories often blend with claims of body-doubles and secret societies (Illuminati, Freemasons, etc.).

2. Deep-Dive: The “Whistleblower” & Clone Conspiracy Lore

[06:32 – 20:52]

Donald Marshall: The Internet’s “Clone Whistleblower”

• Claims to be a clone “created by a secretive cult: Freemasons, Vril, Scientologists (aka the Illuminati)” ([07:10]).

• Alleges world leaders and celebrities gather at “cloning centers” to witness or participate in horrific acts ([08:17]).

  “Most of the G20 gather there to discuss worldly matters and watch gruesome things done...for sport.” – Donald (read by Devin, [08:17])

• Describes “two kinds” of cloning:

  1. Replication Cloning: New clone as a baby ([10:30])
  2. Duplication Cloning: Full-grown duplicate grown in a tank (“thick tank, fill full of water”) ([10:30])

• Claims to have been repeatedly memory-wiped and exploited for his musical skills in “cloning facilities” ([11:38]).

• Pop culture “evidence”:

  • Claims Britney Spears’ career and mood swings explained by different clones—her music video “Break the Ice” supposedly sends coded messages ([17:59]).

    “The music video...Britney Spears goes to a clone lab...and blows it up.” – Devin ([18:32])

  • Discusses conspiracy theorist joy in “hidden clues” left by the “masters” ([18:53]).

Social and Cultural Analysis

• Intersects with “simpler” Reptilian/Illuminati conspiracies; reminiscent of alien abductions, Satanic Panic, and MK Ultra mind control ([13:59], [21:04]).

• Example: Tila Tequila started with conspiracies and “pipeline[d] into literally becoming a Nazi.” ([22:43])

  “You can start with these kinds of silly things...and then eventually you’re like in a Nazi uniform taking a photo shoot. It can happen.” – Chelsea ([23:39])

• Even mundane celebrity memory lapses (e.g., Eminem forgetting a video) spark clone claims ([24:28]).

3. Expert Reality Check: The Science and Ethics

[28:16 – 45:45]

Interview with Prof. Henry Greely (Stanford)

Dolly the Sheep and Its Aftermath ([28:50])

• Dolly’s Importance: Proved mammals can be cloned ("single cell taken from the udder of a sheep" → exact copy) ([29:17]).
• Public Reaction: Global hysteria; triggered laws banning human cloning in many countries ([30:00]).
• Key Distinction:
  • Reproductive Cloning: Clone a full human
  • Research/Therapeutic Cloning: Clone embryos for stem cells ([30:00])

Early Human Cloning Attempts

• Several public figures, doctors, and cults claimed or attempted to clone humans:
  • Richard Seed: Physicist publicly announced intent ([32:09]).
  • Raelian cult: UFO-based religion—claimed to clone first human, “Eve,” in 2002 (never proven) ([33:22], [35:50]).

“A guy named Seed who wants to clone himself.” – Prof. Greely ([32:09]) “It was a flying saucer cult...the aliens wanted the things for us to do.” ([34:42])

• Pet Cloning:
  • Reputable scientists claim success in pets (dogs, cats); pet celebrities like Tom Brady have cloned deceased dogs ([37:26]).

    “Tom Brady...gave my family a second chance with a clone of our beloved dog.” (Brady statement, [37:40])

  • Ethical cost: Many animals lost in process (≈30 for 1 successful clone) ([38:19]).

Why Humans Aren’t Cloned

• Immense ethical and legal roadblocks; biggest reason is practical: high risk and “you might make a lot of really messed up people who won’t survive” ([43:01]).

  “...safety is a big, big, big question. And so far, everybody thinks it’s a deal killer.” – Prof. Greely ([44:23])

• Identical twins are technically natural clones; scientific cloning tries to artificially repeat this process ([39:44]).

• Consensus: No verified cloned humans exist; the technology is possible (in theory), but “the risk might not be worth it” ([43:19]).

  “There have been no grown human clones to debunk...All to say is, as far as we know.” – Noah ([45:45])

4. What Attracts Us to Clone Conspiracies?

[49:49 – 54:27]

• Psychological Appeal:

  • Cope for confusing celebrity behavior (like Kanye’s shifts): “He did a bunch of shit I didn’t think he would do...what’s an easy explanation? The evil clone.” – Chelsea ([50:16])
  • Offers simple answers for complex people/situations.
  • Distrust of institutions creates desire to believe in massive hidden power (“If you already don’t trust...easy to believe some nefarious stuff is going on.” – Manny, [51:36]).

• Desire for Order:

  • “It brings some, I would say, order...it gives order to a thing that’s confusing.” – Devin ([51:59])
  • Clone theories turn randomness and unpredictability into a puppet-master narrative ([52:25]).

• Endurance of the Motif:

  • Clone conspiracies distill the core of all conspiracies: “things are not what they seem.” – Chelsea ([53:02])

• Meta Commentary:

  • Jokes about themselves being replaced by clones for the show’s popularity ([53:26]).
  • “Would we know we were the clones?” – Manny ([53:37])

Notable Quotes & Moments

• “They clone children for men with underdeveloped penises to have sex with.” – Donald Marshall story (Devin reading, [08:17])
• “They think that’s when the cloning stuff is happening.” – Devin ([03:04])
• “You would need to do it when they’re born and have a backup.” – Noah on practical challenges ([40:33])
• “Safety is a big, big, big question. And so far, everybody thinks it’s a deal killer.” – Prof. Greely ([44:23])
• “The risk might not be worth it.” – Chelsea ([43:19])
• “It really is just the perfect example...of every conspiracy theory: things are not what they seem.” – Chelsea ([53:02])

Key Timestamps

• 00:55: Intro to celebrity clone conspiracies & notable rumors
• 06:32: Donald Marshall’s “whistleblower” narrative
• 18:32: Britney Spears, music video “Break the Ice,” and clues
• 21:04: Comparing clone theories to alien abduction, mind control, and Reptilian conspiracies
• 28:16: Interview with Prof. Henry Greely begins
• 33:22: Raelian cult and their cloning claims
• 37:26: Real-world pet cloning, Tom Brady's cloned dog
• 43:38: Ethics, risk, and lack of practical need for human cloning
• 49:49: Why clone conspiracies are so persistent

Tone & Takeaway

Lively, hybrid pop-culture and investigative tone; the hosts balance humor and frankness with deep skepticism and genuine curiosity. The episode reveals that while human cloning is technically possible (in theory), it’s nowhere near the outlandish, instant-swap world of online conspiracy. Clone rumors thrive because they offer narrative comfort, not because they’re based in reality.

For more information or to suggest a “dumb argument” for the hosts to investigate, visit www.nosuchthing.show or email mannynoahdevan@gmail.com.