TINY CAMERAS!?! We found out what those customer satisfaction buttons actually do

Summary

NO SUCH THING Podcast Episode: "TINY CAMERAS!?! We found out what those customer satisfaction buttons actually do"
Hosts: Manny, Noah, Devin
Guest: Scott Erickson (VP, US Sales & Global Channels, Happy or Not)
Release Date: April 1, 2026

---

Episode Overview

In this episode, Manny, Noah, and Devin dig deep into the world of those ubiquitous customer satisfaction buttons you see at airports, stadiums, gas stations, and bathrooms. Inspired by a listener question, the hosts embark on a journey to discover the truth behind these devices: Do they actually matter? Who collects the data? And, most shockingly, was a camera watching you push a button?

---

Key Segments, Insights & Discussion Points

1. Listener Question & Initial Theories

[02:58-04:38]

• Listener Emma asks: "What is the purpose of those immediate reaction in-person reviews? Like when they ask you to hit a smiley or frowny face after you go to the bathroom?"
• The hosts wonder if anyone actually reads the button data. Manny jokes it feels like “pressing the button at a crosswalk” where it’s just psychological theater.
• Noah: “It’s like the button thing at a crosswalk...so many of them are not even connected.”
  [04:45]
• Devin: “Maybe I’m mad because I had to wait in line and now I get to do this. It makes me feel better, and it might stop me from going off online or something.”
  [04:25]

2. What Are These Devices Really?

[06:18-09:13]

• Happy or Not is revealed as the main company behind these feedback buttons (Finnish origin, a country voted happiest for 8 years running).
• The buttons are intentionally binary, with no neutral option.
  Scott Erickson: “We take the neutral out of it. You’re either really happy, you’re happy, you’re unhappy, or you’re really unhappy. We truly do force that person to tell us which side of the fence they’re on.” [08:55]
• Manny: “There’s no meh.” [08:54]
• Devices are most familiar as a stand with four emoji-style buttons, ranging from very happy to very unhappy – no screens, just simple physical buttons.

3. Is Anyone Actually Watching the Data?

[09:26-13:03]

• The hosts are surprised to learn the data is tracked in real time via a SIM card in every device.
  Scott Erickson: “It is indeed real time. All our devices have a SIM card...so they’re transmitting via cellular network.” [09:54]
• Data is shown live on an analytics dashboard for clients (like airports) and can trigger alerts if negative feedback spikes.
• Noah: “So the people who work at that airport could get an alert on their phone saying, oh, go check out the bathroom near Terminal A, you got a code red.” [12:43]
• Anti-tampering: The system is designed to ignore button mashing and prevent manual ‘gaming’ of results by staff.

4. The Shocking Reveal: Tiny Cameras Inside

[14:39-18:27, 17:41-18:39]

• The biggest shocker: The devices now include cameras—raising immediate privacy concerns.
  • Devin: (on hearing this) “Camera in a bathroom immediately raising some red flags.” [17:50]
• Scott Erickson: “There is a camera in the device...we are assessing via some AI technology to allow us to predict that person’s age and gender.” [17:54]
• The camera’s primary purpose: filter out feedback from non-target demographics, e.g. ignore votes from kids mashing buttons or to analyze group trends (such as how older passengers react to tech changes in airports).
• Since 2023, most devices include demographics-capturing cameras, but buyers (like airports or stores) must opt in and comply with local disclosure laws.
  • Devin: “To be fair, as far as the bathroom concern is, they’re always positioned on the entryway...but you can imagine…” [21:53]

5. Privacy, Vectorization & Bias

[22:08-27:42]

• The hosts dive into privacy and data protection:
  • Noah: “How do you protect customer data? Most people don’t realize this is happening...” [22:15]
  • Scott Erickson: “We’re not storing anything on the actual device nor in the cloud. We simply take what we call a vector analysis of that person’s face...no record of any kind is maintained.” [22:37]
  • In simple terms, a mathematical “vector” of your face is produced in real time, never stored, and immediately discarded—no photos are saved or uploaded.
• Bias: Tech experts (Jason Keibler, Matty Belichick) explain AI’s reliability for age/gender detection is “notoriously...not great”—often less accurate for women of color, and “up to 95% accuracy” can mean a lot of incorrect readings, especially in large crowds. [24:47-26:26]
• Disclosure is up to the clients’ local laws. Airports/stores “should” post a sign but may just rely on blanket security-camera notices.

6. Data Participation & Human Behavior

[29:24-31:27]

• Only about 10% of people (sometimes up to 30%) actually press the buttons.
  • Scott Erickson: “We’re in the kind of the 10% neighborhood...in certain environments, we see 20-30% engagement.” [29:30]
• Engagement is actually much higher than email surveys (which are <1% response rate).
• Noah: “I would assume...people are going to be more likely to be upset...but my boy Scott said that’s not the case. People...like to share positive feedback.” [31:09]
  • Scott Erickson: “You’d be surprised how heavily weighted the positive feedback actually is.” [31:27]
• Devin: “I could see at a store...cashier is just friendly, nice, whatever, easy. I could see smashing a positive for sure.” [31:50]

---

Notable Quotes & Moments

• “This is kind of game changing...that this is happening in real time.” – Manny [12:54]
• “A camera in a bathroom? Immediately raising some red flags.” – Devin [17:50]
• “We don’t store anything...simply a vector analysis...no photos stored or uploaded.” – Scott Erickson, Happy or Not [22:37]
• “These models are notoriously not great at detecting age and gender—even in perfect lab settings.” – Paraphrasing Matty Belichick [24:47]
• “If I’m paying for this movie ticket and I have to see ads...that’s disgusting. You should be paying me to show that.” – Manny, Dev’s Hot Takes segment [39:51]

---

Memorable Moments

• Hosts' disbelief: The surprise and mounting unease as the camera news drops. [14:39, 17:47]
• Discussion of hacking, disclosure, legalities: The trio jokes about trying to subpoena Happy or Not’s vectors after a “fake murder,” riffing on privacy and surveillance. [27:59-29:19]
• ‘Dev’s Hot Takes’: A comedic postscript where Devin rails against excessive movie trailers and in-theater commercials. [35:06-40:32]

---

Segment Timestamps

• Listener Question & Button Theories: [02:58–06:09]
• What the Devices Are: [06:18–09:13]
• Who Looks At the Data & Real-Time Monitoring: [09:26–13:12]
• Tampering & Button Fiddling: [14:05–14:39]
• Cameras in the Devices & Privacy: [14:45–18:39; repeated at post-break 17:41]
• AI Bias & Security: [23:36-27:34]
• How Many People Actually Press? [29:24–31:27]
• Positive vs. Negative Feedback: [31:09–31:50]
• Dev’s Hot Takes Segment: [35:06–40:32]

---

Final Takeaways

• The “happy or not” buttons are real, wired, and tracked in real time by organizations, not just psychological theater.
• Since 2023, many devices come with built-in cameras—ostensibly not to record you, but to feed AI models used for demographic filtering and analytics.
• No images or personally identifiable data are stored, according to the company, but experts have concerns about reliability and bias in the tech.
• Only a small percentage of people use these buttons, but the positive-to-negative feedback ratio surprises even the hosts.
• Privacy signage/disclosure is inconsistent and relies on local law compliance.

---

For more, including links to the cited New Yorker piece and to Manny’s book, check the show notes at www.nosuchthing.show.

---

This summary captures the episode's major revelations, technical explanations, host banter, and key moments, providing essential context for everyone curious or concerned about those little feedback boxes.

Transcript

[Scott Erickson]

Kaleidoscope.

[Manny]

I'm Manny.

[Noah]

I'm Noah, this is Devin and this is no Such Thing. The show where we settle our dumb arguments and yours by actually doing the research on today's episode. Are you happy or not? A deep dive into those bathroom reaction buttons.

[Devin]

I know there's no no such thing.

[Noah]

No such thing.

[Devin]

No such thing.

[Noah]

No such thing. No such Thing.

[Klarna/CVS/Kate Osborne (ads and production)]

This is an I Heart podcast.

[Ryan Seacrest]

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[Public Investing]

Support for the show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On Public, you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bond, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index with AI. It all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year, you can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like ETFs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors llc. SEC Registered Advisor Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not an investment recommendation or advice. Complete disclosures available at. Public.com disclosures this week on a special

[Podcast Host/Ad Voice]

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[Noah]

All right, so today's episode was actually inspired by. By a listener named Emma.

[Podcast Host/Ad Voice]

Hey, guys, my question is, what is the purpose of those immediate reaction in person reviews? Like when they ask you to hit a smiley or frowny face after you go to the bathroom? I just was asked to fill out one at the post office. I know that most online reviews help with Google ratings, but it doesn't seem like those in person ones would contribute to that. And it's also hard to believe that they actually care enough to look at the reviews in these places. Thanks. Bye.

[Noah]

The bathroom one is really interesting to me. Some of the other ones make more sense. Like, you know, now when you do the tap to pay, sometimes they like, they got the. At the restaurant, they got the thumbs up down there. Usually skip it, whatever. But that makes sense because it's like, oh, we're getting a lot of thumbs down based on the.

[Manny]

Bobby.

[Noah]

Yeah.

[Devin]

It's an immediate.

[Noah]

Why is everyone thumbs down? You. Whoever's doing it.

[Devin]

Yeah.

[Noah]

But the bathroom one. One is a physical button.

[Manny]

Yeah.

[Devin]

Like in airports.

[Noah]

I. Yeah.

[Devin]

That's where I first noticed it.

[Scott Erickson]

Yeah.

[Devin]

I feel like stadiums.

[Noah]

Yes.

[Devin]

Have it now.

[Noah]

Like, how did we do?

[Devin]

Because it's like gas stations or random places.

[Manny]

Sometimes in those kind of super public places, it's not like our choices matter.

[Devin]

Yes, exactly.

[Noah]

There's not an option.

[Devin]

My thought when I read this question was, I bet those things probably are barely even or no one's looking at it.

[Noah]

It's.

[Devin]

It's purely just like a. Maybe I'm mad because I had to wait in line and now I get to do this. And it makes me feel better. And it might stop me from going off.

[Noah]

Yes. I don't.

[Devin]

Online or something.

[Noah]

I don't got to find a person. I already.

[Devin]

I'm done. I'm done.

[Manny]

So this would be somewhat of a conspiracy.

[Noah]

Yeah.

[Manny]

I think it's putting that out there. And they know that it doesn't.

[Noah]

It's like the button thing at a crosswalk.

[Devin]

Oh, yeah.

[Noah]

Where, you know, some. So much of them are not even connected.

[Devin]

Right. Yeah.

[Klarna/CVS/Kate Osborne (ads and production)]

Only 259 of the 1200 crosswalk buttons in San Francisco actually change a traffic pattern. Meanwhile, in New York City, just 100 of the 1,000 worked in 2018.

[Noah]

But you get there and you press the button and you think, okay, I press the button.

[Manny]

And now it goes.

[Noah]

Something's gonna change.

[Devin]

Someone got a signal.

[Noah]

And then 30 seconds later it Changes. And you're like, that was because of me. No. Yeah.

[Devin]

They would have just, you know, traffic would have never stopped.

[Noah]

So maybe it's something of that. Like today, like you're saying it's like, okay, yeah.

[Devin]

Kind of just like TSA or like kind of theater of.

[Noah]

Yes.

[Devin]

Doing something.

[Noah]

Like, we, we care about your opinion on this thing. Go ahead, press that button.

[Podcast Host/Ad Voice]

Cool.

[Devin]

Yeah.

[Noah]

That button not even connected. Nothing.

[Manny]

Do you guys ever press those buttons?

[Noah]

No.

[Devin]

I was maybe when I was a kid. I have, I think, but not again. Not thinking it's going to do anything. Maybe almost more just like a. For fun, something to do.

[Manny]

Yeah.

[Devin]

You know, I've got a curious mind. I want to let my opinions be known.

[Manny]

Put like a fidget spinner on the way out of the bathroom.

[Devin]

Well, I guess I'm also thinking, like, if I have hit them, I've never hit the happy one. I'm probably always hitting the deep red. I like that. I do like that. It's not just happy and sad. It's like there's four usually in the most famous ones. So it's really upset. Kind of upset. Okay.

[Noah]

And then really happy.

[Devin]

So it's. I like that gradient.

[Noah]

So it's been a few weeks since we had our last discussion about those buttons in the bathroom. So I found the company behind most of those devices. Their name is HappyOrNot and I spoke

[Scott Erickson]

with Scott Erickson and I am the VP of US Sales and global channels at Happy or not.

[Noah]

Happy or not, like I said, is the company behind most of those instant reaction buttons. It is a Finnish based company, which is funny because Finland last eight years, happiest country.

[Manny]

Oh.

[Noah]

Happy or not. Pretty happy for them.

[Devin]

Maybe.

[Manny]

The ability to give feedback in so many public places has made them more happy to them feeling heard and respected.

[Noah]

So the founder actually came up with the initial idea when he was a teenager.

[Scott Erickson]

A guy named Heiki Vonanen and he was actually shopping in a retail store somewhere in Finland and he couldn't find

[Noah]

someone to help him. So we've all been at a place where you're like, this is annoying. Like you want to complain, but like you don't want to go find a manager you're not going to like put in a store.

[Devin]

The stores are big too, famously.

[Noah]

Yeah. So he was like, man, it would be cool if there was a quick way to get feedback.

[Scott Erickson]

And he had this moment of inspiration. Like, there's gotta be a way to easily share that sentiment with that particular company.

[Noah]

He was a teenager at the time, so he didn't really do anything about it, but he came back to the idea. And the cool thing in Finland is if you have, like a startup idea, the government will actually give you some money.

[Manny]

Wow.

[Noah]

So they got a lot of startup money from the government of Finland to put this idea together. So the company has a few different devices. We're most familiar with, like the four emoji version. They also have, like, iPads and other things. But I realized last time we did a pretty bad job of actually explaining what it looks like. So I'm actually going to send a photo here.

[Manny]

What I'm looking at here is essentially a stand with a device at the top of the stand. And it says, please rate our service today. And there's four emoji options, two smiley faces, one really dark green, one lighter green, two frowny faces, one kind of red, and then the final one is very red.

[Noah]

So this is what we fucked up last time. There's no neutral option here.

[Manny]

Yeah. This is really happy or not.

[Noah]

Yeah. You gotta pick a side.

[Manny]

There's no meh.

[Scott Erickson]

So we take the neutral out of it. You're either really happy, you're happy, you're unhappy, or you're really unhappy. So we truly do force that person.

[Noah]

You gotta pick one.

[Scott Erickson]

Exactly. To tell us which side of the fence they're on. There's no middle ground for us. Cause we don't think the middle ground actually does anything as you're describing.

[Noah]

We've done plenty of surveys where there's a lot of neutral options. Yes.

[Devin]

And they're annoying.

[Noah]

And I always say I use them. Yeah.

[Devin]

They probably get it. And they're like, what the hell am

[Noah]

I going to do?

[Devin]

Yeah.

[Noah]

So, yeah, the big thing is there's no neutral option on the device. You got to pick you happy or not. And the most shocking thing to me is someone is actually looking at this data. How real time is this? Is this something that you're collecting? I press the button and that data is being transferred automatically. Does it happen in batches? Is it, you know, a couple days later that you're able to sort of look at it collectively, or is it, you know, just in the moment?

[Scott Erickson]

It is indeed real time. And all of our devices have a SIM card in them, so they act like a cellular device. So they're transmitting via cellular network.

[Noah]

Ah.

[Scott Erickson]

As soon as you make it live, it's transmitting data live in real time. Which, again, is the true essence of what we're trying to do for our customers.

[Noah]

Is it a big thing too? Is that they're collecting this data as the thing is happening. Right. A lot of surveys are asking you about a moment in your past. You know, you're leaving the bathroom and you are immediately like, was that bathroom clean or not? You're not thinking back to, that's powerful. Was the bathroom clean? It's very powerful.

[Devin]

Well, because it's like, especially something seemingly as innocuous as an airport bathroom. Even if I have a, you know, say there's no toilet paper or something's missing, I'm not happy with the situation.

[Noah]

Yeah.

[Devin]

If someone reached out a month later, like, hey, we know you flew into lax, what'd you think? Unless something really horrible happened, I'm going to just be like, yeah, I'm not doing this.

[Manny]

Click now do real time. Meaning when I press frowny face, it's going to be like 9:14pm yes. Okay. Wow. That is very.

[Devin]

And not only that, but someone, if they're looking at it, could see that.

[Manny]

Could see.

[Noah]

Right.

[Devin]

Not like there's a log of it. And then we'll look at it.

[Noah]

Yeah.

[Devin]

Wow.

[Noah]

Yeah. So let me, let me play this bite. That's going to talk about how they sort of look at this data in real time.

[Scott Erickson]

Circling back to my restroom use case example. So we're helping those airport operations teams monitor the cleanliness of those restrooms where our devices are deployed. And then on the back end, we're collecting all of those feedback data points and displaying it to them in a clean, simple to use analytics dashboard so they can monitor the trends every single day, all day long. And then we even have an alert mechanism. So if things are trending south, where we know there could be a problem with feedback, we can alert staff in real time so they can take the necessary action to go improve the clanis of that specific restroom.

[Noah]

Hmm. So you could send out basically like you're saying a push alert a. You know, the bathroom by terminal A is getting a lot of, you know, mad faces.

[Scott Erickson]

Exactly.

[Noah]

So say Manny goes in there, just it up. Bad situation, nasty all over the floor.

[Manny]

Which has never happened.

[Noah]

Never.

[Manny]

Okay.

[Noah]

I'm just saying this, for example.

[Manny]

Yeah.

[Devin]

It's not you, Manny, not you. It's a guy named Manny in the

[Noah]

bathroom of an airport.

[Manny]

Sure, sure.

[Devin]

So then handsome tall guy.

[Manny]

There we go. This is much better now.

[Noah]

So then there's, you know, 15, 20 minutes and everybody just red, red smiley face.

[Devin]

It's horrible.

[Noah]

Nasty. It's gross.

[Devin]

Not happy.

[Noah]

The people who work at that airport could get an alert on their phone saying, oh, go check out the bathroom near Terminal A, you got a code red. We got a lot of reds. And that is. That's not the norm at this time of day.

[Manny]

This is kind of game changing. To me that this is happening in real time.

[Noah]

The fact that anyone is looking at it at any point.

[Devin]

I basically thought those things weren't even plugged in.

[Manny]

Yes.

[Devin]

Or whatever would be. I thought it was literally like a board game or something with a little button that doesn't.

[Noah]

Like a cage toy. Yeah, exactly.

[Manny]

Now, here's a question. Have either of you seen what happens to the screen after you press one of the buttons? Does it say, like.

[Noah]

It's just like a. I've never seen one with a screen.

[Devin]

It's literally. Literally four buttons.

[Manny]

So it doesn't say like your response has been sent to.

[Devin]

It doesn't even. I don't even think they light up when you press.

[Noah]

No, it's literally.

[Devin]

It's like if you press the light switch and nothing happened. Yeah, that's how it would feel. That's how it does feel.

[Noah]

It's like pressing a button on a remote.

[Manny]

I see.

[Devin]

Yeah. Yeah, that's.

[Noah]

There's no tv.

[Devin]

Yeah, there's no TV to do it.

[Noah]

You don't know if it's registering, but

[Manny]

there is something happening. You're turning on a TV somewhere.

[Noah]

Yeah, exactly.

[Devin]

You could be. You could be.

[Noah]

No, you definitely are. And they have versions that are more complicated, like iPads and stuff that are more thorough. But the ones that we are. That we say the most popular ones are just the four buttons. There's no. Ain't a question. That's it. Yeah, it's simple.

[Devin]

Simple.

[Manny]

I feel like we have to test this.

[Noah]

What you're going to go press.

[Manny]

Maybe not worth going through airport security, but we just start hitting that red button.

[Devin]

You need such scale.

[Noah]

Yes. The thing, too is they can protect against people fucking doing some bullshit.

[Devin]

Because if you were pressing a million times all at once.

[Manny]

Yeah.

[Devin]

That's not gonna really register versus. Okay, we got an hour.

[Noah]

And it takes time for something is still there.

[Manny]

Yeah.

[Noah]

So a manager can't just go and just press green, green, green, green, green, green.

[Manny]

Wow. They've thought of everything.

[Noah]

Unless they're chilling in the bathroom.

[Devin]

See, that's smart.

[Noah]

But there's also something very shocking about these devices.

[Devin]

Shocking.

[Noah]

There's a camera in them.

[Devin]

Oh.

[Julian Edelman]

Oh.

[Manny]

What the fuck? This?

[Devin]

I did not know.

[Manny]

Camera in a bathroom. Immediately raising some red flags.

[Noah]

All right, we are going to take a quick break, and when we get back, what the hell are cameras doing in these devices?

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[Public Investing]

Support for the show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On Public, you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into investable index with AI. It all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year, you can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like ETFs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors llc. SEC Registered Advisor Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not an investment recommendation or advice. Complete disclosures available at public.com disclosures it's

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[Noah]

There's also something very shocking about these devices.

[Devin]

Shocking.

[Noah]

There's a camera in them.

[Devin]

Oh.

[Manny]

Oh, what the fuck?

[Devin]

This, I did not know.

[Manny]

Camera in a bathroom immediately raising some red flags.

[Scott Erickson]

So there is a camera in the device and we're not taking photos of anyone, but we are assessing via some AI technology to allow us to predict that person's age and gender.

[Noah]

Mm.

[Scott Erickson]

And that can generate a number of benefits. But one of the main benefits is automatically filtering out feedback from certain age groups. As you can imagine, a lot of kids are drawn to using their devices

[Noah]

out there in the wild and just pressing away.

[Scott Erickson]

Exactly. So that kind of technology allows us to automatically filter out all of the feedback from that age group because we know our customers probably don't view that as true feedback.

[Noah]

So when you're, so you're, are you using this, the age and gender data just to weed stuff out or do you also use it as, say, hey, we're noticing that, you know, a lot of older people are giving, you know, negative reviews to, you know, let's say a restaurant. You know, maybe that's a signal that the music is too loud or something. You know, it's like, are you, how are y' all using that age data?

[Scott Erickson]

Yeah. So filtering out age data is one definitive use case. But let me give you another practical use case. In one of our customers in Europe airport specifically, they're using this device to measure feedback in their food court area. And they had transitioned to requiring passengers to order basically through a kind of a QR code approach. And as you can imagine, the older generation is not totally thrilled with that kind of ordering model. And the feedback through again, this demographic based approach highlighted that like that category of demographic was just not happy with that change that they implemented in the airport. So they fixed it and take a wild guess what happened. Feedback went back the other direction as far as the general satisfaction of passengers in that area.

[Devin]

Well, yeah, cause my thought was obviously the kids thing, but then I was like, oh well you could also then filter out kind of, you know, the Karen's, you know, be like, you know, they're, they're not going to be satisfied.

[Noah]

55 year old white.

[Devin]

So like, yeah, we're going to trash. Yeah, we're going to cut out this segment and under 14 grock please.

[Manny]

Under 14 boys and then 40 plus year old white women from the Response.

[Devin]

Yeah, they're messing up with the data too much. It's not fair.

[Noah]

They're outliers.

[Devin]

Yeah.

[Manny]

That is crazy, though, the camera thing. I mean, it makes sense from their use case of wanting to filter out people. People who are more likely to be just fucking around on there.

[Noah]

Yeah.

[Manny]

But that does raise some concerns about just like, okay, my child is being recorded in the bathroom, and this is

[Noah]

not a device that you would. I have seen a lot of these. There's no indication that there. There's a camera.

[Devin]

When I think of them. Oh, my God. I'm sure there's a small dot somewhere. Now, I'll keep an eye out, but I imagine this is something that came on later.

[Noah]

So. Yeah, they actually started introducing cameras post Covid. So remember, Covid happens in 2020. Oh, we don't want to touch stuff.

[Devin]

Yes.

[Noah]

So In March of 2021, they introduced a device that recognized gestures versus touching an actual button. So you would hold up a certain amount of fingers which would indicate whether you're happy or not. So you'd put up like two fingers which would be like a smiley face, and then it would recognize it on the device. So that was how it started. And then it later evolved so that in 2023, they started using a similar system to capture demographic data, like he was saying, age and gender. And now it's on all of their devices, but the people who are buying them. So, like, you know, the stores and the airports or whatever, they have to opt into having it on.

[Manny]

Oh, I see.

[Devin]

And to be fair, as far as the bathroom concern is, they're always positioned on the entryway. Yeah, yeah.

[Manny]

You're not getting.

[Devin]

Usually it's like even around the corner from where you'd be. Even by the sinks.

[Manny]

Yeah, yeah. But you can imagine.

[Devin]

Yeah, of course.

[LifeLock]

Certain.

[Devin]

Well, yeah.

[Manny]

These days, politicians.

[Noah]

Hey. And I asked him, I didn't even know this thing had a camera. How are you protecting my security?

[Devin]

Yeah.

[Noah]

My privacy, I should say. Well, let me ask you this. So you're, like you said, you're not taking or storing photos of people. So what happens with. How do you protect customer data? Because I would imagine most people don't even realize that that's happening when you're pressing the buttons. So how do you make sure that that data is not, you know, doesn't end up somewhere?

[Scott Erickson]

Yeah. This is getting probably a little bit technical, but just generally speaking, we're not storing anything on the actual device nor in the cloud. So rest assured to your listeners, there's no privacy concerns. Of any kind of. We're simply just taking what we call a vector analysis of that person's face and that allows us to map it against a predictive method to predict the age and the gender.

[Noah]

Gotcha. So it's not, I would imagine the devices are not being trained on the data that's being inputted. It's taking sort of whatever prompts you have already given it and applying it in that instant. And then the photo is gone.

[Scott Erickson]

Yes.

[Noah]

Does that make sense?

[Scott Erickson]

You're describing correctly, Although there is no photo. There's.

[Noah]

Yeah, no photo.

[Scott Erickson]

There's no record of any kind that is maintained.

[Noah]

So not gonna lie. You know, I went into this thinking, I was just talking about buttons. Now we're talking about AI and privacy concerns.

[Manny]

Yeah.

[Noah]

So I need, you know, I reached out to Jason Keibler, he's a tech reporter at four four Media, to get some insight into like should we be concerned about this, you know, what's happening here?

[Manny]

So I'm concerned.

[Noah]

He was pretty shocked that there were came so he had some privacy concerns, not only about like the disclosures that they're recording you, but like how are they processing this data? So I reached back out to Happier not after I did the interview. And they reiterated what Scott said during the interview, that the system does not collect, store or transmit identifiable images or personal data. The AI detects a face and it creates a 128 dimensional vector based on it in real time. No actual photograph of the feedback giver's face is saved or uploaded anywhere, happy or not, does not collect any personally identifiable data. So Jason's follow up to that was that okay, if you're using an AI system to do this, first of all, AI being able to detect people's ages and genders, he said, is notoriously like not reliable. I also followed up with Matty Belichick, who you may remember as the AI researcher from Shell Game, who says, yeah, Jason is correct. These models are notoriously not great at detecting age and gender, even in perfect lab settings. He says the performance varies a lot by race and gender, saying they tend to perform worse with women of color. And he said if they're not training these models on this new data, their models are going to be even worse. Right. So Happy or not responded saying that accuracy was validated through a combination of control testing in real world deployment prior to launch, ensuring performance across a range of environments and use cases with age and gender recognition achieving up to 95% accuracy. Now I'm gonna call it there up

[Manny]

to yeah, I Mean, that could be

[Noah]

literally anything under that could be 1%. It could be 1% at its worst.

[Devin]

That's a good way to phrase it.

[Noah]

Up to means the most accurate is gonna be is 95%. It's never gonna get to 100. So certain situations, and we're talking, you

[Devin]

know, stadiums are talking thousands, airports even more, talking thousands of people every day. It could be thousands slipping through the cracks.

[Noah]

It could be up to being wrongly aged. It could be up to. But, you know, who knows? And this is the sort of thing where it's like, yeah, they're not going to share with me their AI data and the. And they shouldn't know.

[Devin]

I should hope not.

[Noah]

We should hope not. But it is, you know, also asked about, like, what is the likelihood that, you know, something like this can be hacked? They said everything's encrypted, you know, on the device itself, you can't get access to the data too. So, you know, they said they put in a lot of precautions to make sure that whatever demographic data they are collecting on you is not traceable back to you. There's no photos or live streams or anything that is stored anywhere. But I did ask the disclosure question of just sort of like, okay, all this is fine, but like, shouldn't you guys just say, like, hey, there's a camera here?

[Devin]

Yeah.

[Noah]

And they're like, that's basically on the people who are buying these devices based on. Wherever you are, you should follow whatever local rules there are around having to disclose.

[Devin]

Yeah.

[Noah]

That information.

[Devin]

Yeah.

[Manny]

Because I wondered if. I mean, it does sound illegal

[Devin]

when you go. When you go into, say a bar or something and they're filming something or whatever. And it has the sign on the front line.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Yeah.

[Devin]

It might be recorded.

[Manny]

Yeah.

[Devin]

I guess it's basically that rule. And maybe. I guess an airport probably does have that. Yeah.

[Noah]

Yeah.

[Devin]

You know, or whatever. Like, most of us probably have it.

[Noah]

We gotta look out to see if they're. Yeah. Because there's probably. They would probably say it's the same.

[Devin]

It's all under one thing. Yeah.

[Noah]

Like we got security cameras and there's a camera.

[Manny]

You're on camera in an airport and

[Noah]

that camera is not going to be used, you know, if there's a trial.

[Devin]

Yeah, right, right.

[Noah]

And you stole something. They're not going to be able to pull the happy or not information.

[Devin]

That's the real test.

[Noah]

Theoretically.

[Devin]

Well, here's what we do.

[Noah]

Commit a crime. Yes.

[Devin]

In full view of one of these things. No other witnesses. Yes. And see what happens. So I'll Rob one of you guys.

[Noah]

Kill one of us.

[Devin]

See what they do.

[Noah]

Kill one of us. Yeah, Go to a bathroom. A Happy or not.

[Devin]

Yeah, I know how to. Well, we know how to kill from episode 33, whatever it is.

[Noah]

You go on these devices and you do like a jinx confession. I, Noah Friedman, have killed.

[Devin]

I just killed this man in front of the happier not button.

[Manny]

My experience was great

[Devin]

green smile.

[Noah]

That'll be true because then we'll know. Because then, then you'll get like the feds, you know, you get police trying to, hey, you gotta give us this information. So if it is being stored anywhere, that would be. That's how we'll find out.

[Manny]

We could even like pose as like. Yeah, someone who's looking for information. Just email them like, hey, I just got my. My friend just got murdered in this bathroom.

[Devin]

Hey, see the footage.

[Noah]

I'm the FBI.

[Manny]

Federal Bureau of Investigation.

[Noah]

A man was murdered in a JFK bathroom.

[Devin]

And full view of the happy or

[Manny]

not, but could you slide me that link?

[Devin]

Please unencrypt the vector.

[Manny]

Please unencrypt the 128 dimensional vector.

[Devin]

I think that'll really help with this case.

[Noah]

I asked him basically what percentage of people who pass these devices actually press a button.

[Scott Erickson]

Yeah, again, it does vary by the sector and the use case, but just as a kind of a high level average. To give you. We're in the kind of the 10% neighborhood. In certain environments, we see 20 to 30% engagement. So it can be really, really high.

[Noah]

Which to me doesn't seem that high.

[Devin]

No, but if you think where they are.

[Noah]

Yeah, I mean, so he said, let

[Devin]

me see, airports and stadiums.

[Manny]

10 of people that go to the bathroom in the airport.

[Noah]

I mean, that's thousands. That's a lot of people. He put me on the spot, asked me, I'm gonna ask y', all, how many people are there in the world?

[Devin]

Oh, it's like 8 billion now.

[Noah]

Okay, I got that right. I just took that off. I just.

[Manny]

I only know it used to be 7 billion.

[Devin]

Yeah, I only know from doing the seven footer episode everyone should listen to. Because growing up. Yeah, it used to always be, oh, 7 billion, 7 billion.

[Noah]

So they've gotten. Anyway, this is a long way.

[Devin]

This is the longest we've done.

[Noah]

They've gotten 2 billion responses. So he was comparing this to say, like, you know when you get those like email surveys or whatever after the fact, and like, what percentage of people actually fill those out?

[Scott Erickson]

It is not unheard of for email surveys. As far as the engagement level to be in like the quarter percent to half a percent response rate.

[Manny]

I'm offended when they send me those.

[Noah]

No, no.

[Devin]

Even what? Yeah. Or like you go to McDonald's or something and it's like you get free sandwich. You can get 10 free sandwiches. Fill out the survey. I'm like, no.

[Noah]

And another interesting, I would assume like many was saying earlier, you know, there's no neutral option if people are going to press these buttons. I would assume for the most part

[Manny]

they'll be more likely to be upset.

[Noah]

Yeah, I'm going to come. This is my way of complaining without actually complaining. Yeah.

[Manny]

Press the damn sour with me leaving

[Devin]

a review, doing something else.

[Noah]

Yep. But my boy Scott said that's not the case. People assume that they're just going to get negative reactions. They get a lot of positive reactions.

[Manny]

That is fascinating.

[Scott Erickson]

A lot of people think they're just deployed to gather negative feedback and it's actually quite the opposite. You'd be surprised how heavily weighted the positive feedback actually is.

[Noah]

Really?

[Scott Erickson]

Yeah. And I think as humans we're kind of wired to want to share feedback, good or bad. But people generally like to share positive feedback. Without a doubt.

[Devin]

I could see at a store, like a convenience store, something and something cashier is just friendly, nice, whatever, easy. I could see smashing a positive for sure.

[Noah]

All right, so that was happy or not. We're gonna take a break. When we come back, we're bringing back one of my favorite segments, devs hot takes. All right.

[Devin]

We're Kurt said we did once maybe.

[Noah]

Yeah. This is our second time doing it.

[Podcast Host/Ad Voice]

Yeah.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for Albertsons and Safeway. Take care of yourself this spring with great savings on all your favorite wellness brands. Now through April 28, save $5 when you buy three or more participating wellness items. Shop in store or online for products like Centrum Silver, Nexium, 24Hour, Tums Ultra Strength or smoothies tablets and Flonase spray. And save $5 when you buy three or more. Get these deals before they're gone. Offer ends April 28th. Restrictions apply. Offers may vary. Visit albertsons or safeway.com for more details.

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Support for the show comes from public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On public, you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index with AI. It all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year, you can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like ETFs with with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors llc. SEC Registered Advisor Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not an investment recommendation or advice. Complete Disclosures [e-mail] have you heard about Klarna?

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[Noah]

All right, welcome back. It is time. Ladies and gentlemen, Start the music for Dev's hot takes. Sometimes we do this.

[Devin]

Dead silence. It is time. Everyone's waiting.

[Noah]

Sometimes we do these at the end of episodes. The people have been asking for them.

[Devin]

Sometimes sometime we do them. I can't do this.

[Noah]

So, fellas, last night I went to the movies.

[Devin]

Oh, nice.

[Noah]

I saw Project Hail Mary. Beautiful film. You should bring Baby Lula to it.

[Podcast Host/Ad Voice]

Okay.

[Noah]

It's a good family film.

[Devin]

Okay.

[Noah]

I got there late, which at the movies is early. So I got there about 15, 20 minutes. The trailers were still showing trailers.

[Devin]

They probably just started the trailers and

[Noah]

they said to do like 15, 20 minutes more of trailers.

[Manny]

Damn.

[Noah]

Here's the thing about when you go to the movies, it's one thing to show 30, 40 minutes of trailers. Yeah, it should be illegal.

[Devin]

I know.

[Noah]

To show goddamn Amazon commercials. Geico commercials. You should not be allowed to Show a commercial once the trailers start.

[Devin]

Yeah. If you're doing that in the pre. Pre moment before the trailer starts, you have whatever. Geico, Amazon and Maria Menounos. Yes, that's fine. And trivia.

[Noah]

Trivia.

[Devin]

Yeah, that's fine. Once it's time. And it's trailer time. Once it's trailer time, I'm watching real trailers, real commercials.

[Manny]

I paid to be here.

[Noah]

I don't need to see a mobile ad when it's 25 minutes after movie was already supposed to start.

[Manny]

So wait, and this is a long. I don't think I've run into this. You saw trailers and then you saw advertisements.

[Noah]

They try to fool you.

[Devin]

Yeah. So it'll be like whatever. It'll be like a Rolex commercial or something in there. And it's like. And they're. They're like so highly produced. Where they start, you're like, yeah, they didn't show the thing. And you're like, what movie is this? And then it's like, oh. Or it's a Range Rover commercial. It's the one. There's like, who, who's the guy from White Lotus? Theo James. Yeah, he'll be there driving around. Not in a movie.

[Manny]

Wow. I haven't run into this.

[Noah]

What theater did you know it's, you know, we're Regal heads here. So if I'm president, I'm passing a law. First of all, you should have to tell people what time the movie actually starts. Well, yeah, I need to plan my day. If you're not going to start the movie till 8:20. I had about, you know, 15, 20 minutes worth of stuff I could have did before seeing the movie.

[Manny]

Yeah. And what's.

[Devin]

What's even at big theaters like that, it's. It kind of varies as far as when they actually start. Because sometimes if you go not. Not at like a prime time, 7pm or something that's gonna have the standard trailers, but if you go sometimes to a noon or something.

[Noah]

Yes.

[Devin]

There might not even be any trailers. One trailer.

[Noah]

They'll show it, which is nice.

[Manny]

Like halfway through the movie.

[Noah]

Yeah, yeah.

[Devin]

So like, if you're used to the AMC Regal Lifestyle, basically, you got 30 minutes.

[Noah]

Yep.

[Devin]

You can't take that luxury all the time.

[Noah]

I got burned by that during. What's that movie? Widows Windows.

[Manny]

Widows.

[Noah]

Widows.

[Devin]

The Steve McQueen. No windows. What's the one with the bank?

[Noah]

No, with the lady with the hair.

[Manny]

Oh, Weapons.

[Devin]

I was like, wow. You're talking about a movie from five years, like eight years ago.

[Noah]

Earl Weapons. I showed up somewhere in the window.

[Devin]

Hey, I mean, they're looking through the windows. I said, to be fair, there are

[Noah]

no weapons in the movie.

[Devin]

Hey, there's the one that they imagine. And it's not about school shooting. Yeah, yeah, okay.

[Noah]

But I showed up to that 10 minutes late. I was like, oh, I got plenty of time. Oh, the movie was already started.

[Manny]

That happened to me.

[Devin]

They should.

[Manny]

They should be.

[Devin]

It should be on the ticket or it should alert you.

[Noah]

Yes.

[LifeLock]

Somehow.

[Noah]

It should be online or something. Say, hey, it's going to start 15, 20 minutes.

[Devin]

There's no reason they can't have that.

[Noah]

And I get worried. You know, I'm someone who likes to be there even before. No risk. So 10 minutes. You're always safe with 10 minutes.

[Devin]

Yeah.

[Noah]

I show up, the kids are already gone.

[Manny]

Damn. Didn't even see the kids.

[Noah]

Thank God I know the kids.

[Devin]

What the hell is going on here? What's the problem?

[Noah]

I've been to Regal Movies, where it's been 30 minutes of trailers and people show up 30 minutes into the movie. You are an hour late to the Showtime that is on your TV.

[Devin]

It's like they're treating it like it's the 20s or something. And it just like you just show up to the movies and you just sit through whatever's playing. It's like, what's going on?

[Noah]

You paid $25 to be an hour late.

[Devin]

I don't get it.

[Noah]

Well, the thing was, hey, I want my money back. I'm going to see another Showtime.

[Devin]

Yeah. Especially now.

[Manny]

You can.

[Devin]

You can basically refund any ticket. I feel like the thing with the

[Manny]

commercials that's so sinister, I feel like, is that we've got, you know, kind of a social, Somewhat of a social agreement that if you pay money for something, you don't get advertisements.

[Noah]

Exactly.

[Manny]

You pay for the Netflix without ads. Or like, you pay for YouTube Premium or whatever.

[Noah]

Yeah.

[Manny]

If I'm pay. Paying for this movie ticket and I have to see ads. Trailers are another thing. Because you're. They're trailers for other movies you might be interested in, but, like commercials for cars and. Yeah, that's disgusting.

[Noah]

You should be paying me to show that.

[Devin]

Not literally meant commercials for the theater you're in.

[Noah]

It's.

[Devin]

We know. I. I know. We love the Nicole Kidman thing. I get it. But I'm here already. Yeah.

[Manny]

Yeah.

[Devin]

Show that on tv.

[Noah]

Yeah.

[Devin]

Why don't they show that on tv? True. Hello. Be like, this is cool. Yeah, I'm here. You don't need to tell me, Nicole.

[Manny]

It's like a pep talk or something.

[Devin]

It makes no sense.

[Noah]

No no no no. No such thing. Hey, in case you missed it, Manny's new book, Colored People Time is out. Anywhere you buy books, bring a link to it in the show notes. If you enjoy the humor and heart of this show, you'll love it. It's a collection of essays. I really love it. And I'm not just saying that because he's my friend. No Such Thing is a production of Kaleidoscope Content. Our executive producers are Kate Osborne and Mangeshadakadur. The show was created by Manny Noah and me, Devin Theming credits song by Manny Mixing for this episode by Steve Bone and thank you to Tyler Hale for some additional production on this episode. Our guest this week was Scott Elliot Erickson from Happy or Not. There's actually a great New Yorker piece about Happy or Not by David Owen that we're going to link to in our show notes, so check that out. Visit no Such Thing show to subscribe to our newsletter. If you have feedback for us or question, you can email [e-mail] or if you're in the US you can leave us a voicemail calling the number in our show notes. And who knows, we may do an entire episode based on your question. Emma, thanks for writing in. We had a lot of fun getting to the bottom of this one. We'll see you all next week.

[Julian Edelman]

This is Julian Edelman from Games With Names. I want to take a second to talk about something that's personal to me. I've had the privilege of working closely with Robert Kraft for a long time, and one thing I've always respected is how seriously he takes up standing up to hate. As a Jewish athlete, my identity is something I am proud of, but I also know what it feels like to be singled out for it. That's why this new commercial for the Blue Square Alliance Against Hate that aired during the Big Game really hit home. It's about showing up for someone when they're targeted, even if you don't have the perfect words. And sometimes standing next to someone is enough. And you can show support by sharing

[Ryan Seacrest]

the Blue Square hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for Albertsons and Safeway. You don't want to miss the annual beauty event for big savings on all your favorite beauty products. Now through April 28, spend 25 on participating products and save $5. Shop in store or online for items like Billie Women's Razors, Billie Body Buffer or Body Wash Native Hand Soap, Neutrogena Makeup Remover towelets and Q Tips and save $5 when you spend $25. Offer ends April 28. Restrictions apply. Offers may vary. Visit albertsons or safeway.com for more details.

[Klarna/CVS/Kate Osborne (ads and production)]

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[Noah]

Hear that?

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