A Terrible Waste

Summary

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Noble Blood — “A Terrible Waste”

Host: Dana Schwartz
Date: March 10, 2026
Podcast by iHeartPodcasts and Grim & Mild

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Episode Overview

In this episode of Noble Blood, host Dana Schwartz delves into the notorious Erfurt Latrine Disaster of 1184—a nightmarish historical event where a political meeting of nobles ended with dozens dying in a collapsed latrine cesspit. Dana explores the architectural risks of medieval waste management, the intricate politics of 12th-century Germany, and how disaster can suddenly change lines of succession and become the basis for enduring folklore. The episode concludes with a surprising postscript about another discovery—this one glittering with gold—in a pit beneath Erfurt centuries later.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Setting the Scene: Political Tension and Negotiations

[01:32]

• Introduction to Heinrich VI: The episode opens on young King Heinrich VI of Germany, in tense negotiations with Conrad of Wittelsbach, Archbishop of Mainz, in Erfurt while trying to resolve a heated land dispute with Ludwig III of Thuringia.
• The Hof Tag Meeting: An unofficial court assembly (Hof Tag) is convened with local nobility and clergy to settle the dispute.
• Atmosphere of the Meeting: The discussion describes the mix of hope, political maneuvering, and crowded, potentially adversarial atmosphere.

2. The Latrine Disaster Unfolds

[04:00 – 09:00]

• Collapse Description: As Heinrich and the Archbishop converse by a window, the building suddenly collapses. Most attendees plunge into an underground cesspit—part of the medieval latrine system—in a “roiling pit of mud, debris, and human waste.”
• “The Erfurt Latrine Disaster…is remembered as one of medieval history’s most disgusting calamities. It was what it sounds like.” – Dana Schwartz [03:20]
• Survivors and Victims: The host details that King Heinrich and the Archbishop survive by perching at the window alcove, while as many as 60 nobles die by fall, crushing debris, or drowning/asphyxiation in sewage.

3. Medieval Waste Engineering Explained

[05:00 – 08:00]

• Common Misconceptions: Contrary to modern beliefs, medieval society paid significant attention to waste management, including chamber pots, public latrines, and engineering feats like reinforced cesspits and channel drains.
• Structural Risks: Wooden supports and poor drainage could cause rot and building failure—factors likely contributing to the disaster.

Quote:
“Cesspits were often feats of engineering…many of them were reinforced with wood or less often stone to prevent groundwater pollution.” – Dana [05:59]

4. The Political Backdrop: Disputed Lands and Shifting Power

[08:00 – 12:00]

• Complex Map of Power: 12th-century Germany was a patchwork of independent duchies and principalities. Nobles and clerics often clashed over land.
• Ludwig III vs. the Archbishop: The immediate conflict arose from overlapping claims to Erfurt, aggravated by previous power vacuums and noble intrigues after the fall of Heinrich the Lion.

5. The Catastrophe’s Impact

[15:00 – 19:00]

• Contemporary Accounts: Few contemporary chronicles survive; later stories (notably by Ludwig Bechstein) gave the tragedy a folkloric twist, with Count Heinrich “meeting his ironic end by drowning in the privy.”
• Death Toll & Succession Shifts: The disaster resulted in the deaths of numerous high-ranking nobles, causing abrupt shifts in regional succession and lasting trauma.

Notable Victims Listed:

• Count Friedrich I of Abenburg

• Count Heinrich I of Schwarzburg

• Count Gosmar III of Siegenhayn and others

• Aftermath: Heinrich VI leaves Erfurt, vowing never to return; the main dispute remains unresolved.

Quote:
“As for the dispute between Landgrave Ludwig and Archbishop Conrad, that remains unsolved to this day. That’s the very gross story of the Erfurt Latrine disaster.” – Dana [21:30]

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Memorable Moments & Quotes

• “A whirling pit of death. Most estimates say about 60 of the meeting’s attendees died as a result of the collapse. Some died from the fall, others were crushed by debris, and others were, I’m sorry, drowned in the sewage or asphyxiated in its toxic fumes.” – Dana Schwartz [18:50]
• “King Heinrich and the Archbishop had to cling to the window as they awaited rescue, but they also eventually escaped unharmed. Disgusted and shell shocked, King Heinrich departed from Erfurt with his retinue almost immediately, never to return.” – Dana [20:43]

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Postscript: Treasures Beneath Erfurt

[23:52]

• Archaeological Discovery (1998):

  • Fourteen gold ingots, over 3,000 silver coins, and ornate jewelry were unearthed beneath Erfurt, near a medieval synagogue.
  • The centerpiece: an Ashkenazi Jewish wedding ring inscribed with “mazel tov” (“good fortune”)—a rare survivor from 14th-century Germany.

• Historical Context:

  • The treasure is believed to have belonged to a Jewish merchant, hidden during the 1349 Erfurt Massacre when Jews were murdered or expelled amidst Black Death hysteria.
  • The explanation provides chilling context for anti-Semitic violence and the eventual restitution of the Jewish community, with the treasure remaining hidden for over 600 years.

Quote:
“It is believed that one of them, potentially a money changer or merchant named Kalman Vie, hid his treasure before he was killed, either hoping that he would survive the mob and be able to retrieve it, or knowing that his murderers would not be able to profit from his death.” – Dana [25:20]

• Current Location: The treasure is now exhibited at the old synagogue in Erfurt.

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Timestamp | Segment/Topic | |-----------|--------------------------------------------------| | 01:32 | Introduction to the Erfurt Latrine disaster | | 05:00 | Medieval waste management explained | | 08:00 | Political context and power struggles | | 13:30 | The meeting and building collapse | | 18:50 | Aftermath: deaths, survivors, succession | | 21:30 | Dispute’s unresolved status, disaster’s legacy | | 23:52 | The Erfurt Treasure – archaeological find | | 25:20 | The 1349 massacre and Jewish community history | | 27:20 | Treasure’s fate and current exhibition |

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Summary

This episode is a blend of macabre history and insightful analysis, maintaining Dana Schwartz’s trademark fascination and grim wit. From the fetid, tragic depths of the Erfurt latrine to the brilliant—if tragic—rediscovery of lost treasures in Erfurt’s soil, “A Terrible Waste” is both a cautionary tale about neglect, public engineering, and the ever-present violence of history’s power struggles.

Perfect for listeners interested in:

• Unusual royal calamities
• Engineering and daily life in the medieval world
• The intersection of political intrigue and architectural disaster
• How folklore and tragedy intermingle in historical memory

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“That’s the very gross story of the Erfurt Latrine disaster.”
– Dana Schwartz [21:30]

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Transcript

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BritBox.com welcome to Noble Blood, a production of iHeartRadio and Grim and Mild from Aaron Menke. Listener discretion advised. Heinrich VI, the 18 year old king of Germany and son of Holy Roman Emperor Frederick I Barbossa, sat by a window next to Conrad of Wittelsbach, the Archbishop of Mainz. It was the evening of July 25, 1184, and the air between the two men was tense. By this point. Heinrich and the Archbishop had run out of things to say to one another. Earlier, when they had first said sat down, the conversation had flowed freely. Heinrich had come to Erfurt to broker an agreement between the archbishop and the Landgrave Ludwig III of Thuringia. The two of them had some heated disputes over land rights in Erfurt, but by all accounts each had come to the negotiations willingly and with high hopes for a quick resolution. Heinrich, the King of Germany, had assembled a hoftag, an unofficial meeting attended by his court as well as the local nobility and clergy to settle the matter once and for all. But by this point, however Heinrich and the Archbishop were not talking about land, titles or anything at all. The meeting had long since crumbled. So, too, quite literally, had the building around them, save for the window alcove where the two men had been sitting. Now Heinrich and the Archbishop awaited rescue in horrified silence, holding on for dear life after being forced to watch as their fellow nobles floundered and drowned below them in a roiling pit of mud, debris and human waste. I'm Dana Schwartz, and this is noble blood. The Erfurt latrine disaster, as it would come to be called, is remembered as one of medieval history's most disgusting calamities. It was what it sounds like. A building collapsed into its underground latrine cesspit, killing, injuring or traumatizing the attendees of Heinrich VI's Hofteg. Its effects, both on the lines of noble succession and on local folklore, would ripple out for generations. In order to understand how this tragic and nauseating accident occurred, we must first understand one of the most significant architectural challenges facing any medieval city, that of dealing with human waste. Many people believe that the Middle Ages were a sort of free for all of waste disposal. While it was certainly true that many medieval people had to dispose of their waste by, say, pouring it out of their windows or into the streets, in many places that was actually illegal and could carry heavy fines. As a matter of fact, medieval people, and in particular medieval municipal authorities, devoted a great deal of attention to waste management. People in the Middle Ages dealt with their waste in a number of different ways. The way you might be most familiar with is the chamber pot, which is or other kinds of portable toilets. But those, of course, would have left you with the problem of then disposing of the waste from the chamber pots. Luckily, at least in some places, there was another a latrine. In this period, a latrine would have consisted usually of a plank of wood over a hole in the ground or in the floor of a building, usually some sort of outhouse, which would let out into something such as a cesspit, a stream, a ditch, a moat or a drain. Cesspits were often feats of engineering. While they were sometimes just big holes in the ground, many of them were reinforced with wood or less often stone to prevent groundwater pollution. One latrine would often be shared by all of the inhabitants of a given plot of land. Although larger multi hole latrines were sometimes used in monasteries, and some cities, like London, even had public necessary houses with multiple latrine holes that opened up into a single cesspit. As you might expect Wealthier people tended to have more elaborately constructed latrines. This applied to the above ground parts as well, most notably with the construction of latrines inside the home. If you've ever visited an old castle, for example, you might have seen a little part jutting out from the wall on the outside. That's called a garterobe, and it was basically a medieval toilet, named after storage closets where valuables or linens would be kept. These would be small chambers that offered the user some privacy. Sometimes these would open up directly to the outside, emptying into a moat or some other drainage system. But often they were connected to a latrine that led out into a cesspit. These systems could be impressive, but of course, they were not without their challenges. A cesspit needed proper drainage. Drainage issues could result in things like like contaminated groundwater, but also, and perhaps more urgently, damage to the structure of the latrine and any overlying buildings themselves. Rotting was a major concern for latrines reinforced with wood. Often cesspits were emptied by hand, on an annual or semiannual basis, or otherwise. The waste continually boarded up until a new latrine had to be opened. But some cesspits had more advanced systems of drainage. One solution for the drainage problem was the installation of channel drains, which utilized gravity to let waste out from the cesspit into, say, a flowing river. These could work marvelously well, but like modern plumbing systems, they were also susceptible to clogs or structural damage. And as the attendees of that fateful Hofdag in Erfurt would find out, when channel drain systems failed to work properly, wooden boards began to rot and nobody took steps to remedy the issue. Disaster would ensue. 12th century Germany consisted of a constellation of duchies, counties and principalities, all loosely aligned under the authority of the Holy Roman Empire, with each duke, count and prince largely sovereign over his own territory. Political life was often tense, as ruling nobles constantly sought to increase their power. Borders frequently expanded and contracted as wars, shifting alliances and political machinations saw land pass back and forth between nobles. Of course, these were rarely clean or easy transfers of jurisdiction. It wasn't uncommon for two or more parties to claim sovereignty over the same piece of land at the same time. This was the case for Ludwig iii, the Landgrave, a German rank of nobility roughly equivalent to account of Thuringia, and the Archbishop of Mainz, Conrad of Wittelsbach. Keep in mind that during this period, high ranking clergy like bishops, archbishops and cardinals, often exercised political as well as religious power in their respective domains. In this case, Conrad was both the Archbishop and the Elector of Mainz, a title akin to prince, meaning he both oversaw his own territory and got to play a role in electing the Holy Roman Emperor. The territories of Ludwig's county and Conrad's archbishopric abutted each other. In fact, they sort of overlapped, with each man claiming his land to be perhaps slightly larger than it was. Their territories had not always been quite so disputed. But around 1179, the Duke of Saxony and Bavaria, Heinrich the Lion, was stripped of his holdings by the Holy Roman Emperor, Frederick I Barbossa. This created a power vacuum that resulted in an even more tenuous contested web of territories than had existed before. By 11:84, five years later, Ludwig and the Archbishop had developed a land dispute over the city of Erfurt that had become so heated it drew the attention of the Holy Roman Emperor. But we don't know much of the details of how this contentious situation developed. Specifically, some sources pointed point to the Archbishop's construction of a fortified castle in or near the city around 1180. But it's unclear whether that was in fact the inciting incident or simply a move made as part of a pre existing conflict. In any case, the dispute boiled down to an argument over whether the clergy or the lay nobility should have control over Erfort. This was a pressing issue that touched not only on the daily lives of the people living in the city, but also on bigger debates over the rights of religious versus secular powers that had overtaken Europe in the wake of the investiture controversy and the wars of the Guelphs and Ghibelline that followed. After some four years of conflict over this land, the Holy Roman Emperor had had enough. He sent his son Heinrich vi, the King of Germany, to mediate the matter. In the summer of 1184, Heinrich traveled to Erfurt and called a hoftag on July 25, where he would mediate a peace between Ludwig and the Archbishop. The meeting drew an audience of nobles and high ranking clergy from all around the area, each of whom sought both to help mediate the meeting and possibly to act in their best interests. Sources disagree over whether the Hofteg was held at the cathedral provost's building or the bishop's residence. But we do know that it was nearby the Erfurt Cathedral and that the meeting took place on the second floor of whatever building it was in. Over 60 people, some sources say over 100, crowded the meeting room as the proceedings began. We know little about how the meeting went. It's possible the nobles shouted over each other Jockeying to get a word in. Maybe it was a friendly gathering with everyone acting in good faith, trying to maintain peace and reach a resolution. Maybe it was only getting started and clergy and nobles were still asking after each other's families and children. We do know that at one point King Heinrich and the Archbishop walked over to a window to speak privately. Then all of a sudden, a rumble tore through the building. The walls began to shake, and before the meeting's attendees even realized what was happening, the floor collapsed beneath them. In his book of German legends, the 19th century German folklorist Ludwig Bechstein recounted the story of quote the Count's proverb. His story centered on a noble Count Heinrich VII of Schwarzburg. As Bechstein told it, Count Heinrich had a nasty habit. Whenever there was something he didn't want to do or didn't think he could do, he would say in a huff, if I did that, I'd have to drown in the privy. You can probably see where this story is going. Bechstein's tale was a fictionalized account of the Air Force latrine disaster, which did actually happen. He altered some of the historical details. It was Count Heinrich I who attended, for example, not the seventh. But the basic contours of the story remained, with an ironic twist in the form of his Heinrich's tragically prescient catchphrase. In both the story and real life, the second floor of the building collapsed, the force of which collapsed the first floor, and everyone save for King Heinrich and Archbishop Conrad fell into the cesspit below. A few survived the fall, but most did not. In reality. We have very few contemporary sources about the actual collapse, and what we do have doesn't offer much in the way of details on how the collapse happened. Later writers supposed that the beams supporting the second floor where the Hofteg were held had been rotting for some time, and the weight of so many people caused it to collapse. Because we don't know which building this was exactly, it's hard for us to know whether a latrine contributed to that rotting. If that were the case, it would have had to have been a wood reinforced latrine that reached the second floor. It's also possible that the collapse was unrelated, and the cesspit was simply an unfortunate landing place for the collapsing building. Either way, the cesspit and its draining system seems to have played an essential role in the tragic way the disaster played out. Some sources say that the building's cesspit had a channel drain system which would have emptied out into the nearby Ger a river. This would have meant that when everything collapsed, the sudden inflow of materials and bodies would have forced the entire system to flow wildly and uncontrollably out to the river. The result was a whirling pit of death. Most estimates say about 60 of the meeting's attendees died as a result of the collapse. Some died from the fall, others were crushed by debris, and others were, I'm sorry, drowned in the sewage or asphyxiated in its toxic fumes. The Chronicle of St. Peter's in Erfurt, which began to be compiled about 25 years after the fact in 1208, listed some of the noblemen who died in the Count Friedrich I of Abenburg, Count Heinrich I of Schwarzburg, Count Gosmar III of Siegenhayn, Gosmar's brother in law, Bugrave Friedrich I of Kirstberg, Count Burckhard of Wartzburg and Berenger von Wellington, among other, quote, lesser nobles whom the chronicler felt were not necessary to record. Landgrave Ludwig, one of the main two parties involved in the dispute that was a reason for all of this, fell into the sewage, but luckily was rescued and survived, seemingly with no major injuries. King Heinrich and the Archbishop had to cling to the window as they awaited rescue, but they also eventually escaped unharmed. Disgusted and shell shocked, King Heinrich departed from Erfurt with his retinue almost immediately, never to return. In addition to its relatively quick entrance into the annals of local folklore, the Erfurt latrine disaster impacted the lines of succession of much of the local nobility, as estates passed to sons, brothers and even daughters of the deceased. As for the dispute between Landgrave Ludwig and Archbishop Conrad, that remains unsolved to this day. That's the very gross story of the Air Fort Latrine disaster, but keep listening after a brief sponsor break to hear about another interesting thing that happened in a pit in Erfurt. If you're looking for your next drama obsession, I've got one for you. From the producers of the crown comes BritBox's brand new original series the Lady. Inspired by a true story of a royal scandal, it follows Jane Andrews, a working class woman plucked from obscurity and appointed to the highly coveted role of royal dresser to the Duchess of York at Buckingham Palace. 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a gold ingot for every time something noteworthy happened in a pit in Airfort, Well, I'd have two gold ingots, actually. In fact, in 1998, archaeologists excavated 14 gold ingots, among other treasures hidden in the wall of a medieval cellar entry under the Michaela Strauss, a small street in Erfurt where the structure of a medieval synagogue had been discovered during excavations a few years prior. It was an extraordinary discovery. In addition to the gold ingots, there were over 3,000 tornessel silver coins, a kind of coin commonly used in the Middle Ages and early modern periods, constituting the largest extant collection of these kind of coins in the world. There were also 700 works of goldsmithing dating to the 13th and 14th centuries. There was silver tableware, gilded goblets from the early 14th century, garment appliques and belt adornments, eight brooches with inlaid stones, and eight rings. The most magnificent of the rings and the most telling about the cache and its history, was an Ashkenazi Jewish wedding ring, one of the very few to survive from the 14th century and one of the very few to be found in Germany. The ring was struck in gold without any stones, as was tradition, and featured an intricate engraving of a Gothic tower and above it the Hebrew phrase mazel tov, meaning good fate or good fortune, a phrase of congratulations traditionally offered at significant life events like weddings. It is this ring which seems to have allowed scholars to figure out where this mass of treasure came from and begin to guess at who might have hidden it. In 1349, as the Black Death tore throughout Europe, many communities found a convenient scapegoat in Jewish people, blaming them for causing the pandemic or believing that they facilitated its spread. There are many reasons why these theories developed, but the most significant impact was the widespread murders and exiles of European Jewish communities. In March 1349, the city of Erfurt did just that in what came to be known as the erfurt massacre. Between March 21st and 22nd, mobs lynched anywhere from 100 to 3,000 Jewish people throughout the city. As the violence erupted, many members of the Jewish community chose to set fire to their homes and possessions, choosing death over the violence of the mob. Others chose to hide their possessions, potentially hoping that perhaps they could escape and come back for them later. It is believed that one of them, potentially a money changer or merchant named Kalman Vie, hid his treasure before he was killed, either hoping that he would survive the mob and be able to retrieve it, or knowing that his murderers would not be able to profit from his death. Following the massacre, the remaining members of the Jewish community were exiled from the city. They would return a few years later and re establish a new community in the city before being exiled again in 1458. The hidden treasure, however, remained in Erfurt untouched and intact for over 600 years. Today, it remains on permanent display at the restored old synagogue, just steps from where it was found. Foreign. Noble Blood is a production of iHeartRadio and Grim and Mild from Erin Manke. Noble Blood is hosted by me, Dana Schwartz, with additional writing and research by Hannah Johnston, Hannah Zwick, Courtney Sender, Amy Height and Julia Milani. The show is edited and produced by Jesse Funk with supervising producer Rima Il Kayali and executive producers Erin Menke, Trevor Young and Matt Frederick. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite.

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