BONUS: “Remain: A Supernatural Love Story” (with Kal Penn)

Summary

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Noble Blood BONUS: “Remain: A Supernatural Love Story” (with Kal Penn)

Podcast: Noble Blood (iHeartPodcasts & Grim & Mild)
Episode Date: December 6, 2025
Guest: Dana Schwartz (Host of Noble Blood)
Host: Kal Penn

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Episode Overview

In this special bonus episode, Noble Blood host Dana Schwartz joins Kal Penn to dissect the new Audible Original, “Remain: A Supernatural Love Story.” This metaphysical romance thriller, penned by Nicholas Sparks and M. Night Shyamalan, inspires a deep dive into love, loss, the supernatural, and adaptation, all from the perspective of two self-confessed book nerds and film lovers.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Context and Concept: Unlikely Collaboration

[04:45]

• “Remain” is a metaphysical romance thriller co-authored by Nicholas Sparks (noted for romance like The Notebook) and M. Night Shyamalan (known for supernatural film twists).
• The story centers on architect Tate Donovan, who, after personal loss, rents a spooky house, meets the ghostly Ren, and gets entangled in a romance with her dual nature—a benign “daytime Ren” and a terrifying “night Ren.”

Dana’s Take on the Collaboration:

• “I loved that these two men collaborated. It made me so happy.” – Dana ([07:13])
• Listeners might underestimate both authors, but Dana points out the emotional depth present in Shyamalan’s work and the less-explored ‘twistiness’ of Sparks’ stories.

2. Genre Blending – Romance Meets Supernatural Thriller

[08:00] - [08:34]

• Dana admits a preference for the spine-tingling, detective elements of the plot:
  • “I go spooky. I like the ghost stuff. I like the problem solving... grease up my Hercule Perot mustache. Let's have some fun.” – Dana

3. Character Depth & Grief

[13:24] – [15:07]

• Kal Penn praises character work in Shyamalan’s writing, highlighting how emotional growth intersects with the paranormal.
  • “Everybody gives him the rightful credit for the spooky stuff and the twists. But when you're prepping a scene as an actor, it's all about character arc and grounding it somewhere. And all of that is there...” – Kal ([08:34])
• Dana’s observation:
  • Tate’s compulsion to help Ren is both self-serving and emotionally complex, and the ghostly beauty isn’t lost on her:
    • “I also think he was fully helping her because she was pretty... hot girl doing yoga in, like, tight white yoga pants. And he’s like... I just have to help her.” – Dana ([14:13])

4. Adaptation Insights & Casting News

[11:15] – [13:21]

• Discussion on the nature of adaptations; Dana appreciates when a film stands on its own and reflects the director’s vision.
• Casting news:
  • Tate: Jake Gyllenhaal
  • Ren: Phoebe Dynevor (“from Bridgerton”)
  • Nash: M. Night Shyamalan
  • “Yep. He’s doing it.” – Dana ([13:17])

5. Suspense and Scares: Favorite Spooky Scene

[17:32] – [19:05]

• The most chilling moment in the audiobook for Dana is the first “Bathroom scene” with Night Ren:
  • “There’s such violence to that scene… up until this point... we’ve been having, like, a great time... then we just get this pretty sudden scene of violence.” – Dana ([17:39])
• The setting (a bathroom) added visceral vulnerability:
  • “A bathroom is a very, like, vulnerable place... So there is something, to me, very visceral about an act of violence there…” – Dana ([18:39])

6. Quickfire ‘Plot Twist’ Questions

[20:23] – [29:42]

• Meeting by fate: Dana met her husband when he invited her onto his podcast; their first conversation was recorded and fans thought she was “mean,” but chemistry prevailed.

  • “My flirting style was just being mean to him.” – Dana ([22:11])

• Guidance received: Dana recalls Kal Penn once gave an inspiring speech at the Presidential Scholars event in 2011, which stayed with her.

  • “All of my success, everything I’ve done up until this point is probably thanks to that speech.” – Dana (jokingly, [23:40])

• Domestic strengths & weaknesses:

  • Dana is a skilled baker (“I’m in charge of the pies for Thanksgiving”), but dislikes deep cleaning.
  • Kal struggles with laundry (“things will shrink… because I end up forgetting and putting it in the dryer”) but enjoys cooking, especially Mexican food ([27:13] – [28:05]).

• Murder mystery character to avoid:

  • Dana: Griffin, the manipulative ex-husband.
  • Kal: Dax, the stalker counselor—“especially in like, a horror world, that person shows up everywhere… favorite daytime jump scares.”
  • “M. Night Shyamalan… one of the best daytime jump scares of all time.” – Dana ([29:12])

7. Book & Podcast Recommendations

[29:42] – [32:03]

• Dana is reading “Mary Toft or the Rabbit Queen” by Dexter Palmer and recommends “Slade House” by David Mitchell for those who want more haunted house horror.
• Kal is reading “Oceanside Blues” by Dhruv Bhatt and plans to start “The Loneliness of Sonja and Sunny” by Kiran Desai.

8. Dana’s Upcoming Projects

[32:03] – [32:59]

• Podcasts: Noble Blood (royal history), Hoax! (historical hoaxes with Lizzie Logan)
• Upcoming book: “The Arcane Arts” (under the pseudonym SD Coverley), a sexy magic thriller murder mystery.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On unexpected collaborations:
  • “People only know M. Night Shyamalan as the sort of horror twist guy, and they don’t really pay attention to... his books also have very earnest emotional depth.” – Dana ([07:19])
• On adaptation:
  • “The book already exists.” – Dana ([11:15])
• On ghost romance tropes:
  • “It’s such a trope… but it’s so good. Where you meet a character and then someone else says, like, ‘what? They’ve been dead for 10 years?’ Always so chilling.” – Ed Helms ([04:40])
• On writing character detail:
  • “In a book or audiobook, you get those little nuggets… just make you feel connected.” – Kal ([17:02])
• Domestic reality check:
  • “I don’t want to be rude because you are a professional actor, but your Julia Child is veering a little Kermit.” – Dana ([25:43])
• Podcast/book cross pollination:
  • “I host a book club, an in-person book club... more people are coming for the baked goods than the books.” – Dana ([26:54])

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Introduction & Context: [00:02] – [04:45]
• Book Summary & Setup: [04:45] – [07:13]
• Collaboration and Genre Mix: [07:13] – [08:34]
• Character Discussion & Adaptation: [08:34] – [13:21]
• Relationship & Grief: [13:21] – [15:07]
• Favorite Scary Scene: [17:32] – [19:05]
• Quickfire Questions (‘Plot Twist’): [20:23] – [29:42]
• Book Recommendations: [29:42] – [31:32]
• Dana’s Projects: [32:03] – [32:59]

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Recommendations & Final Thoughts

• Book recommendation for fans of “Remain”: “Slade House” by David Mitchell ([30:28])
• Upcoming reads/podcasts: “The Arcane Arts” by SD Coverley, Noble Blood, and Hoax!

Dana’s closing thought:

• “If any listeners of this liked Night Ren and wanted more like creepy, manipulative, haunted house horror—Slade House. Great. Really short, really fun.” ([30:28])

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Conclusion

This episode delivers an energetic, insightful conversation about genre, adaptation, and the enduring appeal of supernatural romance. Dana Schwartz’s wit and depth as a guest, plus her recommendations and insider perspective on adaptation and podcasting, make the episode a must-listen for fans of haunting stories, book-to-film transitions, and the craft of storytelling.

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Transcript

[A]

Welcome to Earsay, the iHeart and Audible audiobook Club, where each episode we dive into a different Audible title with your favorite podcast hosts and special guests. I'm Kal Penn, host of Here We Go Again.

[B]

And I'm Ed Helms, host of snafu.

[A]

How you been?

Pretty great. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. Not to go right to the weather, but it's been raining for a week in Los Angeles and I love it, so.

[A]

So I was also going to do weather and say that when it's in the 40s like it's been in New York, I feel colder than when it's in the 20s.

[B]

Interesting.

[A]

Which is a weird thing. I just. Like. My nose is always cold for some reason. It's a big nose, to be fair.

[B]

A lot of heat dissipates from your nose. Is that.

[A]

Yes, exactly. Yeah. Interesting.

This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.

[C]

You took the elevator to the 48th floor and handed him the briefing. Your fingertips touched, sending a shockwave of desire through the air. The room pulsed with a silent craving as he drew you in with his smoldering gaze before uttering the words your body ached to hear.

[B]

The next train on track two is delayed.

[C]

And all the while, you were on your commute home. There's more to imagine when you listen Discover romance titles on audible.

[B]

Are you a winter person? Like, I love being outside and doing stuff when it's warm and sunny, but there's something about when it's rainy or snowy or overcast where I feel like, ooh, I get to stay inside. And that makes me happy. And I can listen to a great audiobook.

[A]

What a nice segue. I am a fan of snow, to answer your question, but that is a brilliant segue because when you and I first started doing the show, we promised that we'd be getting into, like, really fun titles, push the limits of the audiobook format. But we're delivering on that promise today with a really unique title. This is the metaphysical romance thriller A Supernatural Love Story, co authored by Nicholas Sparks, who also wrote A Walk to Remember in the Notebook, and M. Night Shyamalan, the director known for his twisting supernatural thrillers like the Sixth Sense and Signs and for Romaine, they teamed up on Sixth Sense.

[B]

Hold on. Can we just talk about Sixth Sense for a second?

[A]

Let's just do a whole. The whole podcast was.

[B]

Did anyone spoil that for you?

[A]

No.

[B]

Did they spoil you before you saw it? No. Thank God. I feel like that was one of those ones. I don't know if you remember when no Way out came out, the Kevin Costner thriller from back in, like, the 90s, early 90s. There was this famous incident where Johnny Carson spoiled it.

[A]

Oh, no.

[B]

Because, by the way, he's Russian. And it's. That's like the big reveal at the end of no Way out, which is a phenomenal movie that I just spoiled for any listeners. But, yeah, Sixth Sense is one of the best twist endings in movie history. Sorry, I just had to. I had to. Had to get there.

[A]

No, I'm glad you went there, and I'm glad that nobody spoiled it for either of us because that. That was the whole enjoyment.

So for Romaine, these two teamed up on both the novel, which is out now, and a film which comes out in 2026. The story follows architect Tate Donovan, who checks himself out of a Connecticut psychiatric facility after the death of his sister. And he takes a job designing a vacation home for a friend, renting an old house nearby. The atmosphere in this house is immediately spooky. Early in his stay, a young woman named Renowned appears, doing yoga and kind of behaving pretty much normally. And he's like, oh, I didn't realize there was someone else who was also going to be staying in this house. And then she vanishes in front of his eyes. And Tate soon finds out that someone named Ren Ready died in the house two years before. And he's pretty sure that this is her ghost, who's trapped between the friendly daytime Ren and a very terrifying nighttime version. So Tate has heard before that the spirits of those who died with unresolved issues remain here. And Ed, while he is trying to unravel the mystery of what really happened to Ren, he's also falling in love with her. Get out of here.

[B]

It's a ghost romance slash. Oh, this is cool.

[A]

It is.

[B]

I'm very taken in by this, and I have to say.

It'S such a trope of ghost stories, but it's so good. The thing of, like, where you meet a character and then someone else says, like, what? They've been dead for 10 years? It's, like, always so chilling. I love that.

[A]

My favorite one of those is Large Marge and Pee Wee's Big Adventure.

[B]

Exactly.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

What a perfect, perfect use of that trope. Well, Cal, this one's a doozy. Have fun with it. Take it away.

[A]

Thanks, man. Yeah, yeah, it'll be great. So here to talk about Remain With Me is an American journalist, screenwriter, and author of five books, most recently the gothic romance novel Immortality A Love Story. She also writes and hosts Noble Blood, a historical weekly podcast for iheartmedia about the dark side of monarchy, which is also known as monarchy.

Dana Schwartz, welcome to irsay. It's a pleasure to have you join our club today.

[C]

Thank you so much for having me. I. I love a book club.

[A]

I love a book club, and I love one that's like this. Are you generally a fan of, like, thrillers, mysteries, like, ghost stories? What's your. What's your usual book club reading diet.

[C]

This time of year? I do get into thrillers, mystery, horror books. I love horror books. I love Shirley Jackson. I want a book that's gonna scare me. Especially when right now we're recording this, I'm in Chicago, and, like, the wind is whipping against the window, and I'm like, this is the mood. Give me a cup of tea and a scary book and I'll be thrilled.

[A]

I love the physical interaction with what you're reading. So, like, when my big nose and hands are cold because it's the end of November, like, bring me something dark and I'll just totally immerse myself in it.

[C]

That's great. That's it. The problem is I live in Los Angeles now, and so, so many times I'll be, like, wanting to get in a horror mood, and it's like, 75 degrees in sunny, so you need a book to really do a lot of the heavy lifting there. The atmosphere needs to be great.

[A]

That's fair. Although it can get into the 40s sometimes, occasionally on the rainier days. I'm trying to be generous. So this audiobook is the result of a very surprising collaboration between M. Night Shyamalan and Nicholas Sparks. I'm a fan of both of them, obviously. How effectively do you think the book balances this, like, healing love story with the aforementioned terrifying, spooky elements?

[C]

I loved that these two men collaborated. It made me so happy.

[A]

Yeah, same.

[C]

I will say, when I first, like, told people, I was like, oh, I'm listening to this book, and it's like, M. Night Shyamalan and Nicholas Sparks. People were like, huh? Because I think that sometimes people only know M. Night Shyamalan as the sort of horror twist guy, and they don't really pay attention to the way that his books also have, like, very earnest emotional depth. Like, they're about family a lot of the time. And I think people who haven't read Nicholas Sparks maybe only think of it as, like, you know, surface level romance because they haven't read these books about, like, actual characters. So I think that they actually went really well together in a surprising way. It was delightful.

[A]

Was there a part that you liked best, like spooky versus the balance of the love stuff?

[C]

I go spooky. I like the ghost stuff. I like the problem solving. Sort of like the detective. Not to jump ahead, but when we get sort of into detective mode, that's when I was clicking into gear. I'm like, grease up my Hercule Perot mustache. Let's have some fun.

[A]

You touched on a thing that. So I've auditioned for a couple of M. Night Shyamalan movies. I obviously have not gotten them otherwise well.

[C]

Cause he's always casting himself. That's the problem.

[A]

No, his casts are always wonderful. But in reading his scripts. Cause you read it a year or a year and a half before you see it on screen, and the depth of characters, like you were saying, always really jumps out at me where everybody gives him the rightful credit for the spooky stuff and the twists. But when you're prepping a scene as an actor, it's all about character arc and grounding it somewhere. And all of of that is there in a way that I think is not often recognized the way it should, because he's phenomenal at building relationships and characters.

[C]

I'm an M. Night Shyamalan defender. I feel like there was sort of that fallow period and then maybe the visit came and people got back on board. But I just want to be on the record that I was on board the whole time.

[A]

Good. Were there any of Shyamalan or Nick Sparks previous works that this reminded you of?

[C]

Ooh, you know what? I don't wanna spoil the Notebook for anyone who hasn't read or seen the Notebook, but, you know, I will say, like, that is a book with a twist that, like, it unfolds over the course of the book. So I think if you haven't read the Notebook, you might have been surprised that Nicholas Sparks is also out here doing a twist.

[A]

At the end of the audiobook. There is a very exclusive conversation between the authors. So if you're a nerd for process like I am, which clearly, I guess we all, if we're listening to this podcast, but you find out that Nicholas Sparks is a total horror nerd and that Shyamalan wasn't going to direct the movie version of this at first, but decided he wanted to work on something earnest and healing like this, there are such little interesting, like, tidbits of people's creative choices.

[C]

I also, I don't know if you saw Knock at the Cabin, which is a very interesting movie and it's based on a horror Book and again, not to. It's so hard talking about M. Night Shyamalan movies and horror books because I don't wanna spoil anything for people who haven't read seen them. But I will say if you haven't read the book, it's a different sort of twist and energy to the movie. And I think M. Night Shyamalan, in his adaptation of the book that became Knock at the Cabin, gets at this sort of like family tragedy where you are in a tight enclosed space, like sort of a haunted house in a sense, and trying to figure out a mystery.

[A]

That is one of the projects. I auditioned for and loved the script and then obviously read the book before the audition too. It was very cool to see that sequence of how something goes from literature to on the page and then what he does off the page.

[C]

It's fascinating. I mean, I don't want to get too far away from the book, but I'm someone, I've written some books, I write screenplays a lot of the time. I really find it fun and interesting when an adaptation can actually be an adaptation, like its own work that stands on its own. I think the strongest adaptations aren't the ones that are literal or directly close to the source. Sometimes I see people on the Internet who are angry that the movies based on books they love aren't exactly the same or don't have the exact same plot. And it's like, well, the book already exists.

[A]

I mean, I agree with you 100%. I did the film adaptation of a wonderful book called the Namesake by Jhumpa Lahiri years ago. She was and is one of my favorite authors before I had the chance to work on the film. And I thought, which was a nice compliment to Mira Nair's directing, there were people who were like, why did she skip full decades from the book? And I was like, because this can't be a nine hour movie. You have to pick and choose when you adapt. And so it's always also very cool to hear, not just when people are questioning why something was changed, but when like their favorite part of the book is not in the movie.

[C]

I mean, it's amazing. Also now that you're in a Mirror Nair movie who's now the Queen mother of New York.

[A]

Yeah. The first family. The first mom of New York. Yeah. It's insane. And as a New Yorker and somebody who's heavily biased, it is very cool. It's a very cool moment. Did you happen to look up who's playing who in the upcoming film version of this or did you use your own imagination.

[C]

I didn't. Has it been announced? Did I miss it?

[A]

It has. So tell me, please. Okay, so you had a clear picture of the characters before. Okay, so I will tell you, and then tell me if you think it fit. Who was in your head? So, Tate. Jake Gyllenhaal.

[C]

Yes. Okay. That's perfect.

[A]

Yeah. Perfect casting, Right. Ren is Phoebe Dynevor.

[C]

Oh, From Bridgerton.

[A]

She's from. Yes. Daphne in Bridgerton. Totally. And then Nash, going back to your earlier observation, Nash is played by Em Night Shyamalan.

[C]

Yep. Yep. He's doing it. He's doing it.

[A]

I did not audition for this movie.

[C]

Yeah, well, because he already cast it.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah, exactly. The emotional heart of the story lies in Tate's attempts to help Ren. And Ren exists in two forms. The beautiful, oblivious daytime Ren, and then the insanely terrifying nighttime Ren, who repeatedly relives the trauma of her death.

Why does Tate believe he must save Ren to save himself?

[C]

I mean, I will say I personally wanted to shake Tate and just be like, you should have just listened to your sister. Your sister knew what she was talking about.

I mean, she gave the best advice. And I think that Tate knows that he's someone who's kind of been selfish and in his head and getting over the grief of his sister and helping Wren is gonna be the thing that kind of helps him be able to move on.

[A]

Did the logic resonate with you? His logic?

[C]

Well, okay. I don't know if this is what you're looking for in the answer, but I will say something that I picked up on is I also think he was fully helping her because she was pretty.

Like, this is a hot girl doing yoga in, like, tight white yoga pants. And he's like, I don't know. For some reason, I just have to help her. And I'm like, yeah, all right.

[A]

This is a great insight into, like, oh, when the movie comes out, like, just, like, checking that, then being like, yeah, that's visually seeing that that might be what it was.

[C]

I don't know that that's what I'm reading.

[A]

One of my takeaways from this was like, you know, it's so overused, but truly, everybody processes trauma and grief so completely differently. And I'm with you on the, like, just wanting to shake him. And then in my head, I'm like, I guess you just process it in that way for yourself in a way that I maybe don't.

[C]

And, you know, what I also respected with Tate is that he didn't. Even though I, as The reader, like, kind of knew. I'm like, this is a fictional book. So, look, ghosts are real. That's the thing that's gonna be happening. But he, as a character, obviously doesn't know that he's in a book, and so he really is. He makes sure he does some problem solving in a way that felt very true to how a real person would act in this situation.

[A]

So, for the listener, T ultimately believes that Ren was murdered, he starts investigating the three potential suspects that are based on Ren's account of betrayals and heartbreak. There are no spoilers. One, her abusive husband Griffin, who she was divorcing. Two, her business partner, Nash, whom she was suing. And three, her friend Dax, who was obsessed with and stalking her. So, Dana, did you prefer the grounded, small town detective work through all this or the spooky supernatural scenario?

[C]

Oh, that's a good question. I think I liked both. I liked the balance, but I thought that these characters were really well developed and grounded. Like, everyone felt really real. All of Tate's friends. Like, his work as an architect I thought was interesting. I mean, that's also part of it is I'm like, such a dork reading this book that I'm like, yeah, tell me about this 12 bedroom house you're building.

[A]

Well, I mean, but that kind of stuff, to me, builds the full scope of who somebody is. Even if it looks like, oh, this is. This is relevant or irrelevant to moving the plot along like that. Anything that really builds the lives of these people is very full. Like the. I'm trying to think of, like, a comp example when you're actually doing a movie. Like, the research that you put into your characters that nobody will ever see. Right. Like, there's a casual mention that this dude's a doctor or an astronaut or whatever, and the movie's not even about that or the book's not even about that. The attention to detail that you put into that prep, which is what I like about books. Like, going back to the namesake. I remember my. My character's ATM password was in the book. Like, it's little intimate details that are. You'll never see in a movie. Totally irrelevant. But in a book or audiobook, you get those little nuggets that, you know, just make you feel connected to them. I think.

The mystery in the haunted house itself, deeply unsettling.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Which spooky scene or moment resonated with you the most in the audio format?

[C]

Oh, okay. You know, that actual scene that did scare me as I was listening to it was the first Bathroom scene. I don't know if you remember, but it's like he's not entirely convinced that Ren isn't. Is supernatural at this point. It's the first time we see Night Ren. And it was so unexpected that there's such violence to that scene that, like, up until this point, we've been having, like, a great time where, like, on this beautiful tourist island, biking around, building a house, talking about scones. And then we just get this pretty sudden scene of violence that I was like, okay, we're in the game right now.

[A]

I don't disagree at all. I just found Night Rhyn overall to be incredibly. The feeling of when you get the chills for no reason. Yeah, I felt like the lead up to that feeling, I didn't actually get the chills, but that very unsettling feeling that lives in your skin.

Was that for me?

[C]

Yeah. Oh, God. And it's also like, to me, there's something so visceral about the fact that it was in a bathroom. Like, not to get all psycho, but, like, a bathroom is a very, like, vulnerable place. Like, you're in the shower. It's a place that you want to be, like, private and alone. I mean, you're, like, literally naked. Sometimes I think you're very unprotected. And so there is something, to me, very visceral about an act of violence there that I was like, oof.

[A]

That's a great way to put it. And now I'm gonna do the thing that you do when you're 12 years old and check behind the curtain every time you walk into the bathroom, everyone. Yeah. All right, we're gonna take a short break, but we will be right back.

[D]

Explore anything with Audible. The mysteries of life, death, and human connection. Audible excites the imagination with stranger stories and ideas that open you up to more possibilities. Listening can change your mood, your life, maybe even the world. Every day, something new awaits. Every title takes you in new directions. Audible helps you dream bigger and escape the everyday. Audible allows you to escape into the supernatural world of Remain, a world born out of a collaboration between the creators of the Notebook and the Sixth Sense, where emotions have the power to transcend loss, reshape identity, and challenge the limits of existence. Listen to this episode's audiobook club pick remain and over 1 million other audiobooks, podcasts, and exclusive Audible originals, all in one Easy app. Visit audible.com hearsayremain today, new customers can sign up for a 30 day free trial. That's audible.com irsayremain.

[A]

Okay. Dana, we're gonna do a few quick fire questions now in a segment called Plot Twist.

[C]

Oh, great.

[A]

It should be fun. I like these questions. All right, ready? Tate believes that Ren beckoned him for help and that he had somehow done the same to Ren. Have you ever experienced a connection with someone in your life that felt preordained or guided by a mysterious force?

[C]

Oh, God. I mean, that's such a. I should say my husband, that we met because it just is sort of that, like, perfect timing that we met and came together. He. And you know how we met. And this is. I'm not flirting, but I do have to say this. He invited me on his podcast.

[A]

Oh, no way.

[C]

And then we fell in love.

[A]

How cool is that?

[C]

That's how it happened.

[A]

So your first convo was public?

[C]

Our first convo was public. And a friend actually, as like a wedding gift, gave us, like, the USB of that actual conversation.

[A]

What was the topic of the pod?

[C]

He has a podcast called All Fantasy Everything. And they like fantasy draft sports style things that aren't sports. And I drafted. And we were drafting non Disney animated movies. And I am sort of like a movie snob. And like, he's a comedian. All of his friends are comedians. Like, they don't take it seriously. And I, like, I'm a very competitive person. I was like, I am doing this podcast and I'm here to win this non winnable game. And I also think my flirting style was just, like, being mean to him. And so I think listeners were just like, even in the comments of that episode, like on Reddit, people were like, oh, Dana's so mean to him. Like, they did not get along. And then we, like, immediately had chemistry and got married.

[A]

That's a great sentence. My flirting style was just being mean to him.

[C]

Yeah, that's what boys like, right?

[A]

That's a cool. That's a cool answer to that. All right, back to. Back to this audiobook. So before Tate's sister Sylvia died, she gave him cryptic guidance urging him to strike up a conversation with a stranger. Be open to the idea that it happened for a reason. If you could receive one prophetic message to guide your life, what kind of guidance would you seek? It could be from beyond, or it. It doesn't have to be.

[C]

Well, see, this is the problem, because if I knew what type of guidance I needed, then I wouldn't need it. I need someone else to give me the guidance. Although I will say not to shoehorn in a little personal anecdote again, I did get some guidance from You.

[A]

From me.

[C]

From you a lot. Several years ago, I was. Fun fact. A presidential scholar when I was in high school and I flew to dc.

[A]

Whoa.

[C]

And you gave a speech to all the little bright eyed, bushy tailed presidential scholars. You were probably like in the Eisenhower building telling us, you know, the children are the future and to dream big.

[A]

Oh, my God, was it like 2010?

[C]

It was 2011.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And so there, There was some advice. I got. I got some advice from you. And now here I am. I would say all of my success, everything I've done up until this point is probably thanks to that speech.

[A]

I'll take it. That's definitely a lie because I remember we were not allowed to be creative or emotional in any speeches we gave as government employees, which was like the most ludicrous rule ever.

[C]

No, we were, I will say for the kids, we were all thrilled.

[A]

Oh, cool. Well, then I feel good about that because that was one of those, like, you're very excited just from the staff perspective, like, oh, wow, you're serving your country. You're working in the White House. And by the way, we all know that you're a author, writer in your actual career that you're taking a break from for a year or two, but you're not allowed to use those skills here. I'm like, okay, great, fine, but that's so funny. Okay, I'll take it.

[C]

We were there. Yeah, the meeting of the minds again. It's happened again.

[A]

Also, I am with you on the what would you want advice for? At the highest level, it's just advice that you don't need. In my case, it's also like, I am terrible at time management, so I don't even think I need some omniscient advice about it. I just need to, like, take a couple hours to read a book about it, about time management.

[C]

Honestly, what I think the advice would be, and it's advice that I already know and I'm just not capable of doing, is just like, hey, spend less time on social media. It's not good for your brain. Like, read, read books.

[A]

Getting rid of Twitter on my phone a couple years ago was the best decision. And then I. I have so many filters on my Instagram feed that it's mostly dog videos and stand up comedians. But the stand up comedians are like, not political stand up comedians. So it's kind of great.

[C]

I am not on Twitter anymore and I was like, great, imagine how much time I'm gonna get. And I just immediately replaced all that time with Instagram and tick Tock.

[A]

Okay. Ren loved cooking.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And teaches Tate how to make beef. I. I can never say this word. Beef born bourguignon.

[C]

You have to say it like Julia Child. That's the way to do it.

[A]

Beef bourguignon. Yeah.

[C]

Nailed it.

[A]

You're right. It works. Wren loved cooking and teaches Tate how to make a beef bourguignon.

[C]

I don't want to be rude because you are a professional actor, but your Julia Child is veering a little. Kermit.

[A]

100% is. Yeah. Just because I feel like that's less offensive.

Okay.

[C]

Although Kermit does make a delicious beef Morgan.

[A]

Yeah, it probably does. Yes.

[C]

Yeah. He's credited everything.

[A]

So Tate admitted he would probably look like, quote, an archaeologist lifting potato sacks if he tried to dance. And he. I mean, he even struggles with doing laundry. What is your domestic strength and weakness?

[C]

I don't want to brag, but I'm like. I bake a lot. I'm a really good baker. I'm in charge of the pies for Thanksgiving. I'm making two pies. I would say my weaknesses are, like, cleaning. Like, the deep cleaning. I can do the tidying, but I'm not good at, like, the, you know, knowing which chemicals, you know, to mix and not. I don't, you know, don't mix bleach or whatever, but I'm good at baking. I'm pretty good at cooking.

[A]

What do you bake? What kind of pies?

[C]

I'm making a pumpkin, and I'm making. Bear with me, a chocolate pecan pie.

Going a little outside the box.

[A]

That's hard.

[C]

Going a little nuts.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

We're gonna try. We're gonna see how it goes. I host a book club, an in person book club with my friends in la, and that is my. Like, once a month, I will, you know, experiment with, like, three new baked goods. Oh, cool. I kind of do think at this point, more people are coming for the baked goods than the books.

[A]

That's fun.

[C]

Yeah. What about you? What are your, like, strengths, weaknesses?

[A]

My weakness very easily is laundry, which is such a ludicrous thing to say, because there are machines.

[C]

They make machines for that now.

[A]

Yeah. I don't. I'll never. It's not that my whites turn different colors. My issue is that a lot of stuff shrinks. So, like, even when I wash stuff on a delicate cycle, if it says you can wash it in a machine, and even when I just hang it up to, like, hang dry, for some reason, like, things will shrink. And that's because that's Because I end up forgetting and putting it in the dryer.

[C]

I think you blame ghosts.

[A]

Yes. Ghosts are the reason. Totally. Ghosts are definitely. But on the plus, I'm a decent. I'm a decent cook.

[C]

Yeah. What sort of things are.

[A]

I'm a big Mexican fan. I really like tacos enchiladas. I have made the tacos from scratch too, just with like, from flour and all of that. It's a little bit labor intensive, but really delicious. Again, no spoilers on this one. The murder mystery focuses on three suspects. Griffin, the manipulative ex husband, Nash, the embezzling business partner, and Dax, the stalker counselor. Which one of these characters would you least want to meet in a quiet small town like Hetherington?

[C]

Ooh, I'd say manipulative ex husband. Let's go, Griffin. Interesting, because I've watched a lot of 60 minutes and I'm always suspicious of a husband. Okay.

[A]

For me, it's definitely stalker counselor once you bring stalker into it. Because then that. Especially in like, a horror world, that person shows up everywhere. And that person also often shows up during daytime. Oh. Like daytime jump scares are. Are my favorite.

[C]

I mean, M. Night Shyamalan, we're talking signs. One of the best daytime jump scares of all time.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[C]

Have you. I don't mean to get too personal, but have you ever had a stalker that you've had to deal with?

[A]

Thankfully, not to my knowledge.

[C]

Okay, good.

[A]

Have you?

[C]

Not that I know of. I don't think I'm nearly. I think I know. Unless people have, like, an undue interest in royal history podcasts, I don't know who would be stalking.

[A]

You never know.

[C]

Tell me more about James. I.

[A]

Okay, last question before we go. What are you listening to or reading right now?

[C]

Oh, amazing. I am reading this book called Mary Toft or the Rabbit Queen by Dexter Palmer. I also co host this podcast on iHeart called Hoax about historical hoaxes. And I had done an episode on this historical hoax about this woman named Mary Toft. And then I read that there was this novel about it that came out a few years ago, and the novel is wonderful. So that's what I'm reading.

[A]

And then what's next, like, with your book club and everything?

[C]

My book club writing is reading a book called Hum by Helen Phillips, and it's excellent. I love Helen Phillips. She's a brilliant author.

She also has a book called the Beautiful Bureaucrat. That's great. And in terms of, like, horror spookiness to get into the season, the book that I had just read that was like my sort of horror vibe was Slade House by David Mitchell. That was my, like, autumnal Halloween read. And if. If any listeners of this liked Night Wren and wanted more like creepy, manipulative, haunted house horror. Slade House. Great. Really short, really fun. What about you? What are you reading?

[A]

That's a stellar recommendation. I am currently reading this book, Oceanside Blues by Dhruv Bhatt. And next up, I have Kiran Desai's book, the Loneliness of Sonja and Sunny.

[C]

Oh, God, that's supposed to be great. I haven't read that yet, but that's like winning all the awards.

[A]

Exactly. I love to read, but I'm a phenomenally slow reader, so I figured I showed you this. The root book is like 150 pages. I'm like, let's tackle that. Finish that before Thanksgiving, and then dive into the real juicy Kirin. They say.

[C]

Oh, that's going to be fun.

[A]

Well, thank you, Dana Schwartz. It was so excellent having you on earsay the I Heart and Audible Audiobook Club with us. Thanks for being a member of our club.

[C]

Oh, my God, thank you for letting me be a member of the club. Do we have patches?

[A]

Oh, we should get patches.

[C]

We should get some.

[A]

Oh, that'd be. Do you guys have patches?

[C]

For years, no. But now I'm like, let's get podcast patches. Let's get book club patches.

[A]

Yeah. Oh, man. Dana, before we let you go, what do you have out right now and what's coming up that we can look forward to?

[C]

So I have two podcasts also with iHeart. One is Noble Blood, which is a podcast where I talk about royals and monarchs throughout history. A lot of murder, a lot of going crazy, and that's just like a fun history podcast. And then I have a new podcast called Hoax, Hoax, exclamation point, where I chat with my friend Lizzie Logan and we just talk through our favorite historical hoaxes. So that's a bit of a more casual conversational podcast, but it is very fun. And then speaking of book collaborations and co authors, I have a new book coming out in May called the Arcane Arts that I co wrote with a friend of mine. It's under the pseudonym SD Coverley, and it's sexy magic, thriller, murder mystery. I actually think listeners of Romaine might really like it. So look up the Arcane Arts, pre order it from your local bookstore or listen to it on Audible.

[A]

Awesome. I love that. Well, congratulations on all of the above and thank you for being here.

[C]

Thank you so much for having me.

[A]

Dana was a lot of fun Now I'm looking forward to seeing the movie even more. And of course you can find the new audiobook A Supernatural Love Story at Audible. Thank you for tuning in to this episode of Irsay, The Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club. On the next episode, Ed will be talking about the new full cast recording of Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone. It features a star packed cast which includes Q. Laurie, riz Ahmed, Matthew McFaddy and more. If you had fun with us today on earsay, consider following the show wherever you listen. Audible has the best selection of audiobooks along with popular podcasts and exclusive Audible originals, all in one easy app and with unlimited listening time. Sign up for a free 30 day Audible trial and your first audiobook is free. Visit audible.com Irsay Hearsay the Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club is a production of iHeart's Ruby Studio. We're your hosts Kalpen and Ed Helms.

[B]

Our Executive producer is Matt Schultz with theme music and post production by Marcus.

[A]

Bagala for Ruby Studio. Our managing EP is Matt Romano, our team EP of post production is Matt Stillo and our Production coordinator is Abby Aguilar.

[B]

And of course a big thank you to our friends at Audible. Don't forget, you can listen to what we're listening to on the Audible app [e-mail] Sign up for a free 30 day Audible trial and your first audiobook is free.

[A]

Visit audible.com hearsay until next time. Thanks for listening.

[D]

Explore anything with Audible the mysteries of life, death and human connection. Audible excites the imagination with stories that help you escape the everyday into the supernatural world of Remain, a world born out of a collaboration between the creators of the Notebook and the Sixth Sense, where emotions have the power to transcend loss. Listen to this episode's Audiobook Club pick Remain on Audible. New customers can sign up for a 30 day free trial. Visit audible.com Irsayremain this is an iHeart podcast.

[A]

Guaranteed human.