More Blood Than You Can Drink

Summary

Noble Blood: Episode Summary – "More Blood Than You Can Drink"

Release Date: April 1, 2025
Host: Dana Schwartz
Production: iHeartPodcasts and Grim & Mild

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Introduction to Tomyris: The Warrior Queen

Dana Schwartz opens the episode with a vivid portrayal of an ancient battlefield, setting the stage for the story of Tomyris, a formidable warrior queen. She describes Tomyris walking among the fallen soldiers, clutching the severed head of her enemy, Cyrus the Great of Persia, symbolizing her triumph and the brutal consequences of power struggles in ancient times.

Notable Quote:

"Imagine an ancient battlefield littered with the carnage of the aftermath of a great battle... In her hand, she clutches a bag, a simple wineskin made of leathered animal hide. At first glance, you might think she's brought libations to toast her army's victory, but you would be very wrong."
— Dana Schwartz [02:00]

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Historical Context and Sources

Schwartz delves into the historical backdrop of Tomyris, primarily drawing from Herodotus, the Greek historian known as the "father of history." She cautions listeners about the potential biases and inaccuracies in Herodotus's accounts, emphasizing the challenges in distinguishing fact from legend in ancient histories.

Notable Quote:

"One important thing to note is that in terms of sources, Herodotus isn't exactly peer-reviewed. We're dealing with bias and also the possibility of outright fabrication."
— Dana Schwartz [04:30]

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The Massagetae and Their Society

The Massagetae, a nomadic warrior tribe from Central Asia, are introduced as Tomyris's people. They are portrayed as progressive, especially regarding women's roles, which allowed Tomyris to ascend to leadership following her husband's death. Their societal structure is contrasted with the patriarchal expectations of neighboring civilizations.

Notable Quote:

"The Massengeti rode horses and worshiped the sun. And they were notable for their progressive views on women. It makes sense that when Tomyris's husband died, she would take over the throne and rule the confederation in his place."
— Dana Schwartz [06:15]

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Conflict with Cyrus the Great

Cyrus II of Persia, a strategic and ambitious conqueror, sets his sights on the Massagetae to expand his empire. He initially attempts a non-hostile takeover by proposing marriage to Tomyris, which she rejects. Undeterred, Cyrus proceeds with a military campaign, underestimating Tomyris's capabilities.

Notable Quote:

"If Timyris wouldn't give him her kingdom as a wedding gift, he would just have to take it by force."
— Dana Schwartz [09:45]

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The Deceptive Banquet and Trap

After an initial failed assault, Cyrus devises a cunning plan exploiting cultural differences. He organizes a lavish banquet with strong wine, knowing the Massagetae had no tolerance for it. The Massagetae warriors, led by Tomyris's son, fall into a drunken stupor, allowing the Persian army to seize victory easily.

Notable Quote:

"According to Herodotus's account, Cyrus had a large banquet set up under Persian tents... the warriors soon discovered that they had no tolerance for wine."
— Dana Schwartz [12:50]

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Retaliation and the Final Battle

Tomyris responds to Cyrus's deceit with fierce vengeance. She leads her army into an epic and brutal battle, ultimately killing Cyrus himself. In a gruesome display of retribution, Tomyris decapitates Cyrus and immerses his head in a bag of his own soldiers' blood.

Notable Quote:

"She searched among the fallen Persian soldiers until she found Cyrus's corpse. She ordered his head to be chopped off. Then she dropped Cyrus's head into a wineskin full of blood that had been collected from his men."
— Dana Schwartz [15:30]

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Legacy of Tomyris

The episode explores Tomyris's enduring legacy, highlighting her as an iconic figure representing resistance and female empowerment. Her story resonates through history, inspiring art and modern cultural memory, especially in Central Asia where she is celebrated as a national heroine.

Notable Quote:

"Tomyris was a powerful woman who refused to be conquered either by marriage or by force, who protected her people's sovereignty at all costs."
— Dana Schwartz [19:00]

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Archaeological Discoveries and Modern Interpretations

Schwartz touches upon recent archaeological findings in Kazakhstan, suggesting possible connections to Tomyris. These discoveries, including richly adorned tombs, reinforce the narrative of powerful women in ancient societies and keep Tomyris's story alive in contemporary discussions.

Notable Quote:

"A similar Saka grave found in 2013 contained the remains of a tall woman wearing a golden pointed hat and elaborate jewelry, proving that powerful women were indeed honored with magnificent burials in this region and era."
— Dana Schwartz [20:30]

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Conclusion: The Enduring Power of Tomyris's Story

Dana Schwartz concludes by reflecting on the timeless appeal of Tomyris's tale—a narrative of vengeance, strength, and the formidable impact of a woman defying the tides of history. She emphasizes that regardless of the historical accuracy, Tomyris's legend continues to inspire and fascinate across cultures and centuries.

Notable Quote:

"What remains across centuries and cultures is how irresistible that story is. What's not to love about a story of resistance, revenge and, let's face it, the ultimate accessory?"
— Dana Schwartz [21:00]

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Additional Content: Sponsorship and Further Insights

The episode includes sponsorship segments promoting other podcasts and celebrating cultural narratives, seamlessly integrating them into the overall content without detracting from the main story of Tomyris.

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Credits

Host: Dana Schwartz
Additional Writing and Research: Hannah Johnston, Hannah Zwick, Courtney Sender, Amy Hite, Julia Milani
Editing and Production: Jesse Funk
Supervising Producer: Rima Il Kayali
Executive Producers: Erin Menke, Trevor Young, Matt Frederick

For more episodes and content, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or your preferred podcast platform.

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This summary encapsulates the key discussions and narratives presented in the "More Blood Than You Can Drink" episode of Noble Blood, offering listeners a comprehensive overview of Tomyris's story and its historical significance.

Transcript

[Unknown Speaker]

I'm ready to fight. Oh, this is Fighting Words. Okay, I'll put the hammer back.

[George M. Johnson]

Hi, I'm George M. Johnson, a best selling author with the second most banned book in America. Now more than ever, we need to use our voices to fight back.

[Unknown Speaker]

Part of the power of black queer creativity is the fact that we got us.

You know, we are the greatest culture makers in world history.

[George M. Johnson]

Listen to Fighting Words on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

[Dana Schwartz]

Welcome to Noble Blood, a production of iHeartRadio and Grim and Mild from Erin Menke. Listener discretion advised. Imagine an ancient battlefield littered with the carnage of the aftermath of a great battle. One side has emerged as victorious, and now the slow, arduous task of inventorying the corpses has begun. Time for the victors to take stock of what has been lost and what has been gained. But there's something unusual in this scene. A woman walking among the bodies. Judging by the way the survivors defer to her, it's pretty obvious that she's their ruler. A warrior queen. In her hand, she clutches a bag, a simple wineskin made of leathered animal hide. At first glance, you might think she's brought libations to toast her army's victory, but you would be very wrong. In the bag is a severed head. And it's not the head of some random soldier. This head belonged to her sworn enemy, who also happened to be the most powerful man in that part of the world. That head, which once devised brilliant strategies and conquered dynasties, was now reduced to sloshing around in a bag filled with the blood of his fellow fallen soldiers. If you're a little tired of Before He Cheats as a female rage anthem, I will direct you toward another innovator in the field of revenge. This is the story of Tomyris, the warrior queen who brought down an empire builder who avenged her son's death and who made sure her enemy got exactly what she promised. It's also one of history's most spectacular examples of messing with the wrong woman. I'm Dana Schwartz, and this is Noble Blood. The majority of what we know about Tomyris comes from the writings of Herodotus, the Greek historian and geographer. Writing in 5th century BC, Herodotus is known as the father of history for an approach that combined rigorous documentation with cultural context and human observation. One important thing to note is that in terms of sources, Herodotus isn't exactly peer reviewed. We're dealing with bias and also the possibility of outright fabrication. Given that we don't know where he got his information. And as with many ancient stories, this one would not pass the Bechtel test. But it's still a hell of a ride. Little is known about Timyris husband, Only that he was king of the Massenghadi, A nomadic warrior tribe who lived for centuries around the steppes of Central Asia. The Massengeti rode horses and worshiped the sun. And they were notable for their progressive views on women. It makes sense that when Timiris husband died, she would take over the throne and rule the confederation in his place. In their world, a warrior queen was just as good as a warrior king. But to outside forces, that progress looked a lot like opportunity. Cyrus II of Persia, or Cyrus the Great, as he's generally known, Was an immensely powerful force in the region. And the architect of what would become the Persian Empire. He was a clever military strategist who won many challenging campaigns. And a voracious conqueror. Expansion at all costs was his primary objective. We can also probably imagine that he was a man who didn't like being told no. After all, he overthrew his own grandfather to claim his throne. When Cyrus set his sights on the Massengeti, he saw opportunity. The tribe lived on the other side of the Araxes river, and conquering their territory would set up the Persian Empire for even more expansion. The barbarian horse people with a female leader seemed like an easy target. Considering the campaigns he'd won in the past. Cyrus had no reason to doubt his success would only continue. He hadn't anticipated that the widowed warrior queen would turn out to be the most formidable opponent he had ever faced. The opponent who would lead to his ultimate death. But as I said, to Cyrus, this whole thing seemed like a layup. Besides, he was single. Tomyris was single. They would get married, and Cyrus would get control of the Massengeti. It's an easy, non hostile takeover. But Tomyris saw through his plan and turned down his offer of marriage. And that's when things really started to head south. If you think men today don't like being rejected, imagine how well it went over with someone who collected empires like Pokemon cards. Cyrus would later be praised for a ruling style that actually employed a fair amount of autonomy among his subjects. But when it came to Timyris, he wouldn't take no for an answer. If he couldn't conquer the Massengeti by marriage the easy way, he would have to do it the old fashioned way. Sources differ on whether or not Cyrus actually declared war on the Massengeti, but whether or not he Made it official. When his army began building a bridge that would carry his men across the Araxes river and into Massangete territory, there was no question of his intentions. Tomaris sent word to him advising him to call off his attack, basically employing the you do you and I'll do me approach. But of course, Cyrus was not content to let her be the one that got away. Instead he decided to enter the territory and enter what we might call today the f around and find out stage. After dismissing Tomyris warning, Cyrus went the route of many modern day toxic men who blame not getting what they want on women. Quote not liking nice guys. Although a brief note, Cyrus was never a nice guy, but if Timyris wouldn't give him her kingdom as a wedding gift, he would just have to take it by force. Cyrus was advised by others not to cross the Araxes and put his army in foreign territory. Instead, he was counseled to let the mesengeti come to him, giving him the home advantage. That was sound reasoning, but he quickly discarded it. At the time, Cyrus most trusted advice came from an unusual Croesus, the former king of Lydia. Of richer than Croesus fame. Croesus actually became Cyrus subject after the Persians conquered Lydia several years earlier. Despite defeating Croesus in battle, Cyrus leaned on him for advice and appreciated the man's aggressively old school stance on things like women in power. He wasn't a fan. Croesus urged Cyrus to bring the fight to Timyris. Whether he was still stinging from the rejection of his marriage proposal or just itching for a good fight, Cyrus took Croesus advice and decided to attack the Messengeti on their own turf. Cyrus invaded, but after crossing the river, they were quickly defeated by Tomyris army. The Persian army retreated and Croesus helped Cyrus formulate a new plan. One that wouldn't rely on physical domination at all. Like other local tribes at the time, the Massengeti were milk drinkers. Their intoxicants of choice were cannabis and fermented mare's milk. They had no experience with and therefore no tolerance for wine. That inspired a diabolically clever maneuver that would be the beginning of the end for Cyrus. According to Herodotus account, Cyrus had a large banquet set up under Persian tents. It was a sumptuous feast with plenty of strong wine. Then Cyrus and his men withdrew, leaving the banquet intact with the implication that surely the Persian army had quickly retreated and left all of their goodies behind. With that, the trap was set. The Massengeti army led by Tomyris son came upon the tents and discovered what appeared to be an abandoned feast. Naturally, the warriors dug in and helped themselves to everything they found. The wine flowed freely, and the warriors soon discovered that they had no tolerance for the stuff. The entire contingent quickly fell into a drunken stupor. Little did they know that they had walked right into Cyrus trap. As soon as the Massengeti were incapacitated, the Persian army descended. The previously fearsome warriors became sitting ducks, and they were quickly slaughtered by the invading army. It was a brilliant plan that exploited the differences in their cultures and allowed for an easy victory from Cyrus. Tomyris son was taken alive, but he wouldn't remain that way for long. Once the young prince was able to sober up and realize what had happened to his fellow soldiers, the magnitude of the situation was clear. As it set in that he had led his men directly to their own slaughter, the shame became unbearable. Unable to picture a world where he could go back and face his mother, he took his own life. Other sources have Cyrus killing Tomyris son himself. But any way you look at it, the blame for the young man's death rested squarely on Cyrus. Naturally, when Tomyris found out what happened, her rage was all consuming. She sent Cyrus a barnburner of a message that was the tonal opposite of her polite first warning. This one was glutton for blood. Your weapon was red wine, which you Persians drink until you are so crazy that shameful words float on the liquor's fumes. This was the poison you used to destroy my army and my son. Leave my land now, or I swear by the sun, I will give you more blood than you can drink. Of course, Cyrus did not retreat fight. And the Warrior Queen made good on her threat. What followed was an epically destructive fight between the Persians and the Messengeti, so brutal that it was described by Herodotus as the fiercest battle among barbarians in the ancient world. Fighting began at long range with bows and arrows. Then things got up close and personal with spear and dagger work that put on vivid display the full force of the Massengeti fighting prowess. The Massengeti didn't just defeat Cyrus forces, they destroyed them. When the battle ended, Cyrus the Great himself lay dead on the battlefield. But Tomyris wasn't finished. The Warrior Queen had one final move to make, and this one was grotesquely literal. She searched among the fallen Persian soldiers until she found Cyrus's corpse. She ordered his head to be chopped off. Then she dropped Cyrus head into a wineskin full of blood that had been collected from his men. As she did this, she cried, drink your fill of blood. Was dunking the dead king's head in his own soldier's blood overkill? Some might say. Yes, but the wrath of a grieving mother is not a thing to underestimate. Cyrus the Great, who had built an empire through conquest and clever strategy met his end at the hands of a woman he had underestimated. Timiris proved that defying her warnings carried severe consequences and that men didn't have a monopoly on rage. I think we can all agree that in modern terms, carrying your enemy's decapitated head around in a wine bag full of his own soldier's blood is about as f around. And find out as you can get. Little is known about Tomyris life following her victory over Cyrus, but her actions in that battle were enough to gain her a good amount of notoriety. Throughout the centuries, Tomyris became part of a popular artistic theme of celebrating powerful female figures who triumphed over men, women like Tomyris or like Judith over Holofernes. Tomyris was especially popular during the Renaissance when European artists and writers couldn't get enough of her story. They were, of course, especially fond of depicting the final gruesome moment with Cyrus head and the blood filled wineskin. One particularly notable work was a fresco by the Renaissance painter Andrea del Castagno, which was discovered in Florence in 1847. Among the nine larger than life figures portrayed, Tomyris stands proudly alongside literary giants like Dante and Petrarch. The partially worn inscription beneath her feet celebrated two of her key achievements. Avenging her son and liberating her people. We can assume that showboating with her enemy's decapitated head was a third unspoken highlight. But Tomyris was not just a Renaissance fascination. Ancient writers couldn't get enough of her story either. She represented something unique. A woman who defeated the most powerful man of her time in battle. She was both a grieving mother seeking vengeance and a fierce warrior queen protecting her people. That duality made for an iconic figure whose legacy would stand the test of time. Today, Timyris lives on across Central Asia. She's claimed as a national heroine by multiple countries, including Azerbaijan, Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan and regions of western Turkey. In those areas, the name Tomyris remained popular among young girls. A badass namesake and testament to her influence, Kazakhstan even issued coins bearing her image, cementing her place in modern cultural memory. As with many ancient historical figures, separating fact from legend into Myers story can be challenging. But perhaps the exact details matter less in this case than what her story represents she was a powerful woman who refused to be conquered either by marriage or by force, who protected her people's sovereignty at all costs, and who proved that when push comes to shove, women can act just as unhinged and violent as men can. That's the legend of Tomyris. But keep listening after a brief sponsor break to hear a little bit about how a new discovery shed light on her story.

[Unknown Speaker]

Are your ears bored?

[Dana Schwartz]

Yeah.

[Diosa]

Are you looking for a new podcast that will make you laugh, learn and say que?

[Unknown Speaker]

Yeah.

Then tune in to locatora radio season 10 today. Okay.

[Diosa]

I'm Diosa. I'm Mala, the host of Locatora Radio, a radiophonic novella, which is just a.

[Unknown Speaker]

Very extra way of saying a podcast. We're launching this season with a miniseries, totally Nostalgic, a four part series about the Latinos who shaped pop culture in the early 2000s.

It's Lala checking in with all things Y2K 2000s. My favorite memory, honestly, was us having our own media platform like Mundos and MTV Tres. You could turn on the TV, you see Thalia, you see JLo, Nina Sky, Evie Queen, all the girlies doing their things, all of the beauty reflected right back at us. It was everything.

[Diosa]

Tune in to locatora radio season 10.

[Unknown Speaker]

Now that's what I call a podcast. Listen to Locatora Radio Season 10 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Are your ears bored?

[Dana Schwartz]

Yeah.

[Diosa]

Are you looking for a new podcast that will make you laugh, learn and say que?

[Unknown Speaker]

Yeah.

Then tune in to locatora radio season 10 today. Okay.

[Diosa]

I'm Diosa. I'm Mala, the host of Locatora Radio, a radiophonic novella, which is just a.

[Unknown Speaker]

Very extra way of saying a podcast. We're launching this season with a mini series series, totally Nostalgic, a four part series about the Latinos who shaped pop culture in the early 2000s.

It's Lala checking in with all things Y2K 2000s. My favorite memory, honestly, was us having our own media platforms like Mundos and MTV Tres. You could turn on the TV, you see Thalia, you see JLo, Nina Sky, Evie Queen. All the girlies doing their things, all of the beauty reflected right, right back at us. It was everything.

[Diosa]

Tune in to locatora radio season 10.

[Unknown Speaker]

Now that's what I call a podcast. Listen to Locatora Radio Season 10 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Dana Schwartz]

In 2010, an archaeological discovery in northern Kazakhstan sparked new interest in Tomyris story, researchers uncovered what they called the Golden Wound Warrior Tomb. Dating back to somewhere between the 7th and 4th centuries BC the burial site was a treasure trove containing a body adorned in gold and surrounded by more than a hundred precious objects, including one ornate tiger griffin figure, bronze arrowheads and decorated sword belts. Initially, experts identified the skeleton as belonging to a middle aged man, but subsequent analysis has left the question of gender open. Some have speculated that this could be the tomb of Tomyris herself, although that remains purely conjecture. What's particularly interesting is that this discovery isn't isolated. A similar Saka grave found in 2013 contained the remains of a tall woman wearing a golden point pointed hat and elaborate jewelry, proving that powerful women were indeed honored with magnificent burials in this region and era. Whether or not one of those tombs belonged to Tomyris, it's undeniable that the power of her story lives on. The warrior Queen of the Massengeti exists in a space between history and legend, fact and interpretation. But what remains across centuries and cultures is how irresistible that story is. What's not to love about a story of resistance, revenge and, let's face it, the ultimate accessory? Here's a free idea for any fashion designers out a Tomyris handbag head not included. Noble Blood is a production of iHeartRadio and Grim and Mild from Erin Manke. Nobleblood is hosted by me, Dana Schwartz with additional writing and research by Hannah Johnston, Hannah Zwick, Courtney Sender, Amy Hite and Julia Milani. The show is edited and produced by Jesse Funk with supervising producer Rima Il Kayali and executive producers Erin Menke, Trevor Young and Matt Frederick. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

[Unknown Speaker]

I'm ready to fight. Oh this is fighting worse. Okay, I'll put the hammer back.

[George M. Johnson]

Hi, I'm George M. Johnson, a best selling author writer with the second most banned book in America. Now more than ever, we need to use our voices to fight back.

[Unknown Speaker]

Part of the power of black queer creativity is the fact that we got us.

You know we are the greatest culture makers in world history.

[George M. Johnson]

Listen to fighting words on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast.