The Tudor Villainess

Summary

Noble Blood – "The Tudor Villainess"
Host: Dana Schwartz
Release Date: August 4, 2026

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Overview:

In this episode, Dana Schwartz takes listeners through the dramatic story of Jane Boleyn, Lady Rochford—a historical figure infamous as a so-called "villainess" in Tudor England. Schwartz probes the myths and realities surrounding Jane, exploring her life, motivations, and evolving historical reputation. Was Jane truly the social-climbing schemer—and betrayer—so often depicted in fiction, or has history treated her unfairly? The episode also delves into Jane’s complicated involvement in the scandals and executions of two of Henry VIII's doomed queens, Anne Boleyn and Catherine Howard.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Introduction: Madness and Execution (04:43)

• Schwartz introduces Lady Rochford (Jane Boleyn), noting her imprisonment and impending execution for treason in 1542.
• Legal dilemma: Jane's mental breakdown initially protects her from execution—until a law is passed permitting the execution of the insane for treason.
  • "During Lady Rochford's interrogation, she suffered a nervous breakdown and... went insane... But Henry wasn't content to wait. A bill was passed allowing the execution of the insane and Jane was duly convicted by an act of attainder." (05:13–06:08)
• On hearing the news of her sentence, Jane appears to recover her sanity, leading Schwartz to wonder if she may have feigned madness as a survival tactic.

2. Jane Boleyn: Background and Rise at Court (07:00)

• Jane was born Jane Parker to a well-connected family, with vague records of her birth date.
• She joined the household of Catherine of Aragon and participated in significant court events, like the Field of the Cloth of Gold and the Chateau Vert masque (where she played "Constancy" alongside Anne and Mary Boleyn).
• Jane's marriage to George Boleyn, brother to Anne Boleyn, placed her at the heart of Tudor intrigue.

3. Reputation: Villainess or Victim? (10:30)

• Traditional portrayals paint Jane as a jealous, scheming woman who betrayed her husband (George Boleyn) and sister-in-law (Anne Boleyn), famously testifying against them.
• Schwartz challenges this stereotype:
  • Contextual evidence: Recent historians (Julia Fox, Sylvia Barbara Soberton) argue there's little solid proof Jane actively contributed to the Boleyns’ downfall or that her marriage was particularly unhappy.
    • "Jane really cared for George, even when, as you'll soon see, trouble came for them... It certainly wasn't a love match, but that doesn't mean by Tudor standards, it was an unsuccessful marriage." (12:40–13:31)
  • Misinterpretations of historical records—such as assuming Jane protested against Anne when, in fact, evidence suggests otherwise—have contributed to her infamy.

4. The Boleyn Downfall (15:45)

• With Anne king’s favorite, the Boleyns rise rapidly; but Anne's failure to produce a male heir turns Henry’s affection cold.
• Jane is drawn into court scheming when Anne tries to manipulate rivals for Henry’s attention, resulting in Jane's temporary exile.
• As suspicion mounts, Anne and George are arrested for treason and incest. Conventional wisdom blames Jane’s supposed testimony for their deaths.

5. Re-examining Jane’s Role (18:54)

• Schwartz leans on historian Julia Fox, who finds no compelling motive for Jane to betray Anne and George.
  • Under immense pressure, Jane is interrogated after the arrests. She sends a letter in support of George, promising to appeal to the king.
  • At George’s trial, Jane's alleged "incriminating" testimony—about Anne discussing Henry's bedroom issues—is extracted under duress.
    • "Faced with such relentless, incessant questions which she had no choice but to answer, Jane would have searched her memory for every tiny incident..." (20:27)
  • No contemporary source names Jane among Boleyn accusers; the tale of her as a betrayer becomes widespread only decades later.

Memorable Quote:

"If it was betrayal on Jane Boleyn’s part, it was very subtle betrayal. It’s only decades later that Jane’s character assassination begins in earnest." (21:45)

6. The Catherine Howard Scandal (22:52)

• After Anne and George's death, Jane returns to court, serving three more queens: Jane Seymour, Anne of Cleves, and then the young Catherine Howard.
• With Catherine Howard, Jane becomes confidante and—fatefully—accomplice.
• Jane facilitates secret meetings between Catherine and Thomas Culpepper, helping them meet undetected during royal progress. Schwartz likens Jane’s behavior to "a sort of Tudor-era real housewife... living for the drama." (25:17)
• This becomes Jane's undoing when Catherine’s past and her affair with Culpepper come to light in 1541.

Memorable Quote:

"Jane found back doors and back steps where Culpepper could sneak in to meet the Queen without anyone else from the household knowing. Jane sent her own servant to check to see if the King's night watchman was nearby. And Jane herself would literally hide, keeping a lookout..." (28:44)

7. Trial, Madness, and Death (31:00)

• During the investigation, Jane is interrogated and ultimately admits to enabling the Howard–Culpepper meetings but maintains she saw no proof of consummation.
• As the enormity of her predicament dawns on her, Jane suffers a mental breakdown.
• Legally unfit for trial or execution, Henry uses a new act to ensure Jane's death. When told of execution, Jane’s sanity appears restored.
  • "When Jane was told that she would finally be put to death, her symptoms of madness left her." (33:31)

8. Legacy: Infamy, Mystique, and Modern Reconsiderations (33:57)

• Jane dies alongside Catherine Howard, buried in the Tower of London near the other Boleyns.
• Schwartz reflects on how Jane's image as a villainess may have had more to do with simplifying uncomfortable historical realities.
  • "It's always easier—and to be frank, usually more fun—to imagine a nefarious individual villain than it is to reckon with the complicated dynamics of power, autonomy, sex and cultures of gossip and ultimately meaningless murder given the gloss of legality." (34:20)

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Jane's maligned reputation:

  "Tracy Boorman, chief historian at historic royal palaces, has characterized her as the most hated woman in Tudor England. But the truth about Jane Boleyn, Lady Rochford, is unsurprisingly more complicated." (06:43)

• On the perils of contemporary gossip:

  "[Jane] put to mind a sort of Tudor era real housewife having whispered conversations that absolutely would be made public and apologies living for the drama." (25:17)

• On the ease of scapegoating:

  "Stories tend to stick around whether or not they’re true." (40:17)

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Important Segment Timestamps

• The legal conundrum of Jane's sanity and execution: (04:43–06:08)
• Jane’s early court life and marriage: (07:00–10:30)
• Questioning the Jane-as-villain narrative: (10:30–14:30)
• The Boleyn downfall and Jane’s role: (15:45–23:00)
• Catherine Howard’s scandal and Jane’s involvement: (24:20–33:00)
• Jane’s breakdown, trial, and execution: (31:00–34:40)
• Reflection on legacy and the habit of historical scapegoating: (34:20–34:42)

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Final Reflection

Dana Schwartz deftly guides listeners beyond the caricature of Jane Boleyn as the “Tudor villainess,” drawing on recent scholarship to humanize a woman long scapegoated by history. Through careful analysis and evocative storytelling, the episode reveals a more complex, even tragic, figure—caught in the unpredictable, often brutal machinery of Tudor power. Jane’s reputation, Schwartz suggests, might tell us as much about the needs of posterity as it does about the woman herself.

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Listener’s note: For further exploration, Schwartz suggests reading Gareth Russell’s biography of Catherine Howard and Julia Fox's work on Jane Boleyn. Episode avoids treating the subject as a clear-cut villain story, instead inviting listeners to question historical narratives and their construction.

Transcript

[Dana Schwartz]

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One quick bit of housekeeping before we begin. I am so, so so excited that in 2027 I will be partnering with Common Ground Pilgrimages again to lead a Pride and Prejudice pilgrimage in England. If you've been a longtime listener of the show, you're probably used to me talking about these, but they are honestly my favorite thing in the world. We pick a book and for a week just gather a group of like smart, wonderful people together to talk about the book and go on long walks in the English countryside. And I could not be more thrilled that the next book I'm doing is Pride and Prejudice. So if you are at all interested in joining with us, I think we still have, depending on when this episode comes out, a few slots available. Google Common Ground Pilgrimages Dana Schwartz, Pride and Prejudice It'll come up. I have so much fun doing it and it also makes the trip so special if podcast listeners and members of the Noble family are also coming along. So take a look at that. Let's get into the episode. Welcome to Noble Blood, a production of iHeartRadio and Grim and mild. From Erin Menke. Listener discretion advised. In 1542, Lady Rochford, lady in waiting to multiple queens and sister in law to one, was awaiting a trial during which she would almost certainly be convicted of high treason. Certainly, King Henry VIII was determined for her to be found guilty and executed. But there was one problem. During Lady Rochford's interrogation, she suffered a nervous breakdown and for lack of a better phrase, went insane. She had fits of frenzy and lost her connection with reality. Now this, of course, was a problem for Lady Rochford. No one wants to go mad. But it was also a problem for Henry viii, because it wouldn't be legal for him to try and execute someone who was not mentally fit. And so Lady Rochford was brought from her imprisonment at the time Tower of London, to the home of Lady Russell, the wife of the Lord Admiral, in order to try to nurse her back to health and sanity for the goal of expediting her execution. But Henry wasn't content to wait. A bill was passed allowing the execution of the insane and Jane was duly convicted by an act of attainder. When Jane, Lady Rochford, was told of her impending death, it seems her sanity returned to her. Maybe the lady had been faking it, trying to get a reprieve or postpone her death sentence. Or maybe the shock of the end arriving jolted her back into her right mind. But it didn't matter. Mad or sane, Lady Rochford was going to the scaffold. Lady Rochford was born Jane Parker, but most people are probably more familiar with her married name, Jane Boleyn. She was married to George Boleyn, the brother of Anne, the brother, who incidentally was convicted of incest with his sister before they were both beheaded. If you are a friend, frequent reader of Tudor era literature or watcher of historical dramas, you probably know Lady Rochford as a villainess, a jealous, social climbing shrew who testified against her own husband in a vindictive attempt to take down her hated sister in law. Tracy Boorman, chief historian at historic royal palaces, has characterized her as the most hated woman in Tudor England. But the truth about Jane Boleyn, Lady Rochford, is unsurprisingly more complicated. And modern scholarship has shed new light on Jane's terrible reputation and whether or not she was responsible for the downfall of Anne Boleyn. She was certainly more involved in the downfall of another queen, Anne's cousin, Catherine Howard. Jane Boleyn would eventually lose her own head and two of the five queens she served under suffered the same fate. The question then is how much was really Jane's fault. I'm Dana Schwartz and this is noble blood. Jane Boleyn was born Jane Parker, a well connected girl from a good family. Her father was a baron and her mother was the great granddaughter of Margaret Beauchamp, the maternal grandmother of Henry vii. Though unfortunately a paucity of records means we don't know exactly when Jane was born. Her early life reads as though she's a bit of the forest gump of Tudor England, appearing at the most famous events in Henry VIII's reign. When Jane was a young woman, she joined the household of Catherine of Aragon. And she was with the court in 1520 when they journeyed to France for the Field of the Cloth of Gold when Henry had a famous meeting with with the King of France. Two years later, Jane appeared again at a pivotal moment in history at the famous masque performance at York Palace, a performance of the Chateau Vers, which consisted of a giant imitation castle covered in green foil and some of the most beautiful women in court playing virtues that needed to be rescued by crusading knights. Jane, one of the performers, portrayed Constancy alongside her future sisters in law, Mary Boleyn. Kindness and Anne Boleyn. Fittingly, perseverance. A few years later, as the Boleyns continued to rise at court, Jane married the Boleyn brother, George. It was a fitting match with George's sister favored by the king, obviously not yet queen, but certainly being paid special attention to, the Boleyn family star was on the rise. George was given the sinisterly named Grimston Manor as a wedding gift. And a few years after they were married, Jane became not just Jane Boleyn, but also the Viscountess Rochford. Why was the Boleyn star on the rise? Well, I assume you probably know this story. First, Henry had had an affair with Mary Boleyn, actually the married Mary Carey. But when given what he wanted, he lost interest fairly quickly. And then King Henry VIII became enchanted by dark, quick witted, charming Anne. As he fell deeper in love, he became more frustrated that his decades long marriage with Catherine of Aragon hadn't produced any male heirs. And he became more convinced that that was God's way of showing him that the marriage had actually been invalid the entire time. Henry began his maneuvers to do whatever he could to to get the Pope to annul his first marriage so that he could marry Anne. In the meantime, the King showed the Boleyns whatever favor he could. They were given the luxurious palace of Beaulieu, which had hot and Cold running water. As if the symbolism couldn't be more obvious with regards to the changing of fortunes. The palace had formerly belonged to Mary, Henry's daughter by Catherine of Aragon. She, Mary was banished to less luxurious digs and the Boleyns swept into place. A lot of our information with what was happening with Jane at this point is filling in whatever gaps we can with our best educated guesses. The conventional wisdom is that Jane and George had a poisonous, unhappy marriage and that Jane was jealous and bitter toward Anne Boleyn. It's certainly possible to read the story that way, but the evidence isn't exactly airtight. And in recent years, historians, particularly Julia Fox, have begun a bit of a reclamation project. People historically have pointed out that George and Jane didn't have any children as evidence for the fact that their marriage was unhappy. But there are plenty of reasons why people might not have been able to have children. And all contemporary writing seems to indicate that Jane really cared for George, even when, as you'll soon see, trouble came for them. It certainly wasn't a love match, but that doesn't mean by Tudor standards, it was an unsuccessful marriage. Another central piece of evidence in favor of Jane's resentment for the Boleyns is apparent writing that indicates Jane allegedly participated in a group of ladies protesting against Anne after she became queen, a public show of support for Henry's daughter Mary from his first marriage. Except did Jane actually attend that protest? The evidence comes from handwritten Marginalia, a contemporary source documenting the protest, who wrote down Milord Rochfort and Milord Guillaume, indicating George Boleyn and William Howard in the 19th century. A biographer interpreted that as meaning their wives had been among the women protesting. But modern scholarship indicates that that almost certainly was not the case. As Sylvia Barbara Sorberton points out, William Howard's wife actually died a few months before the protest and he wouldn't marry again until the next year. So he didn't even have a wife at the time who could have attended the protest. And for Jane, in Sobertin's words, to break the habit of a lifetime and speak out particularly against her husband's family would be most uncharacteristic. Her fortunes had risen with the Boleyns. It would have been outright foolish and probably far more notable than just a scribble in a margin if she had taken such a public stance against her very powerful sister in law. It is more likely, Saberton posits, that George Boleyn and William Howard had been the men tasked with disciplining those involved. Being married to George Boleyn had only made Jane more prominent and important at court. George was at the heart of courtly culture with a flourishing career and an expanding portfolio of properties. It stands to reason that Jane would have been perfectly content to rise with him and his sister. But unfortunately for Jane, history would have other ideas. It didn't take long after King Henry VIII and Anne Boleyn were married for trouble to begin to brew for the new queen. Anne's greatest problem was that she did not deliver Henry the son she had promised. She gave birth, but the prince everyone was expecting turned out to be a princess. And then, though Anne became pregnant again, she suffered a miscarriage. Henry began to get anxious and impatient and Anne felt the tenuousness of her position. When Henry began to flirt with someone else at court, Anne asked her sister in law, Jane to scheme with her to find a way to get that woman sent away from court. Apparently, Jane picked a fight with that woman, hoping that Henry would dismiss her from court to avoid any public drama. But the plan backfired and Jane herself alone was temporarily exiled. It became more urgent than ever that Anne Boleyn become pregnant. But as she confided to Jane, there were some challenges with that. Or rather one main challenge being that the King had performance issues in bed. Jane shared the gossip with her husband. Though again you can characterize Jane as a Machiavellian and double faced skill schemer. Here it seems equally or more likely that she was just an involved family member who shared her family's concern with their precarious position. The writing was on the wall with regards to the Boleyns when a position opened up for a new Knight of the Garter. And instead of the honor being awarded to George Boleyn, the King had the position of go to Sir Nicholas Carew, a relative of Jane Seymour, the lady in waiting. Henry had recently turned his attention to the queen. Anne Boleyn couldn't get her own brother elected. It seemed obvious her days in power were numbered. In 1536, Anne Boleyn and her brother George were suddenly arrested and taken to the Tower of London along with four other men accused of adultery and therefore treason, and in George's case, incest. This is where the climax comes in the legend of Jane Boleyn's villainy. The popular story is that Jane Boleyn finally had an opportunity to turn on her hated husband and sister in law and that she took it to give testimony against both of them that sent them to their deaths. But the reality is a lot more nuanced and by actually looking directly at the primary sources, it's much harder to make the case for Jane as a villain. As I mentioned, the historian Julia Fox has been among the most prominent voices in redeeming Jane's character. As she writes in Jane Boleyn, the True Story of the Infamous Living Lady Rochford, Jane had reaped nothing but benefits from her marriage, which had allowed her to live in unbridled luxury. Outside of purely speculative motives, there's no actual textual reason she would have to drag down her own stature at court by disgracing her husband and sister in law. Instead, Fox paints a picture of what actually happened after her husband was suddenly arrested. Jane was, like everyone in their circle, interrogated in an incredibly high pressure environment. An interrogation during which she was almost certainly terrified and confused as to what was going on. As Fox writes, quote, the arrests had been so sudden and unexpected that there was no time to separate out what testimony might be damaging, what could be twisted to become so, or what could only be innocuous, no matter what the interpretation. And while her husband of 11 years was in the tower, Jane was actually the only person person to attempt to send him a letter in support. She promised in the letter to humbly make suit unto the King's highness on his behalf. Jane's testimony came up only once during her husband's trial. The only evidence we actually have of Jane's so called betrayal. During the trial, Cromwell handed George a picture piece of paper while he was on the stand. Paper with a question on it. Cromwell instructed him to answer the question with a simple yes or no. George instead read the note aloud. A question which had been about whether Anne had mentioned to Jane the King's indelicate troubles in the bedroom. It is damning, but it's also information. Information that had been pulled from Jane by expert and determined interrogators. Hardly mustache twirling sabotage. Fox writes of Jane's inquisition. Faced with such relentless, incessant questions which she had no choice but to answer, Jane would have searched her memory for every tiny incident that occurred to her. Jane had not been quick to tell tales, but she had buckled under the pressure of relentless questioning. Perhaps even more tellingly, Sorbertin points out, no contemporary sources named Jane in their list of Boleyn accusers. If Jane Boleyn had willingly turned on her husband and sister in law, Sorberton writes, such explosive information would have been shared at court. So if it was betrayal on Jane Boleyn's part, it was very subtle betrayal. It's only decades later that Jane's character assassination begins in earnest. The historian George Wyatt, writing in the 17th century, called Jane wicked wife, accuser of her own husband, even to the seeking of her own blood. And Jane became an especially useful scapegoat when Anne Boleyn's daughter Elizabeth eventually became Queen Elizabeth I. Elizabeth couldn't say that her father father was a murderer and she couldn't say that her mother was a treasonous adulteress. And so who was there to blame? As Julia Fox writes, it was Jane's weakness under interrogation that gave her future detractors happy to find a scapegoat to exonerate the King from the heinous charge of callously killing his innocent and wife the ammunition to maintain that it was her, Jane's evidence that had fooled Henry and destroyed Anne and George. Anne, George and the four other men accused were all found guilty. Most historians today are in agreement that the charges were trumped up against Anne in order to dispose of her and to allow Henry to marry the new woman he had set his sights on. But Anne Boleyn would not be the last queen Jane served who would go on to lose her head. After a temporary retreat from court, Jane Boleyn would eventually return, only to find herself embroiled in another scandal. This time, however, she would certainly have her fair share of Blaine

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[Dana Schwartz]

Jane Boleyn was only away from court for a few months after her husband was killed, during which time she was in tense negotiations with her former father in law and with Thomas Cromwell about what she was owed. As a widow, her income would be significantly decreased, but she was eventually allocated 100 pounds a year, enough to return to court as a lady in time to serve the brand new queen, Jane Seymour. As you're probably aware, turnover in the King Henry VIII wife business was astonishingly high. Jane, Lady Rochfort, served Queen Jane Seymour until the Queen died after complications following the birth of Henry's much smaller sought after son. The next queen was a princess imported from Germany for political reasons, Anne of Cleves, whom Henry disliked almost as soon as he laid eyes on her. It's during this period that Jane's character as a sort of impulsive gossip comes into clear focus. At risk of being anachronistic, reading about her during this period, particularly in the books of of Julia Fox and Gareth Russell, put to mind a sort of Tudor era real housewife having whispered conversations that absolutely would be made public and apologies living for the drama. Anne of Cleves, whether innocent or obtuse, told her ladies in waiting that Henry did do his husbandly duty, you know, by kissing her goodnight and then letting her fall asleep. It was Jane among the women remarking that Anne wasn't going to get pregnant with a little prince that way. After Henry found a way to dispatch with Anne of Cleves, just legally this time, thankfully not mortally, his next queen was the charming teenage Catherine Howard. Once again, Jane Boleyn, Lady Rochford, was put into the Queen's intimate service, in fact, with Catherine Howard. Despite the fact that the two ladies were decades apart, the two became the closest of friends. Jane Boleyn, Lady Rochfort, was Catherine Howard's confidant and eventually her conspirator. Plenty has been written on the life of Catherine Howard. In fact, we've done an episode on her on this very podcast called during our series on the wives of King Henry viii. But the short version of her sad story is that months after she arrived at court, she caught the eye of the King, who was determined to make her his latest queen. Unfortunately for everyone involved, there was a ticking time bomb when it came to Catherine. A secret that the King could absolutely not discover about his virginal new bride. Catherine had already had two liaisons with men in her grandmother's household, where she had grown up. The topics of those early relationships with regards to the question of consent in the context of the era require far more nuance than we have space for in an episode on Jane Boleyn. But if you're interested in the details of Catherine's life life, I would direct you to the excellent biography by Gareth Russell. But suffice it to say, those former relationships were once Catherine was Queen. Embarrassing and arguably treasonous episodes that she needed to remain secret. All of that would have been bad enough, but Catherine soon had another secret. The new Queen began a flirtation with a courtier named Thomas Culpepper. Whether this relationship was ever consummated remains an open question. But Catherine certainly enjoyed his company and sent him gifts and food when he was sick, made flirtatious comments to him, and most damning of all, when the court was on procession through England, Catherine and her trusted lady in waiting, Jane Boleyn, made arrangements for secret meetings at every new castle or manor. Along the Queen's procession. Jane found back doors and back steps where Culpepper could sneak in to meet meet the Queen without anyone else from the household knowing. Jane sent her own servant to check to see if the King's night watchman was nearby. And Jane herself would literally hide, keeping a lookout to make sure Catherine and Culpepper weren't discovered. Maybe this is the most shocking part of all. These secret meetings with Culpepper continued all summer. And that wouldn't actually be Catherine's downfall. Instead, Catherine's downfall came because a random courtier had told his sister that she should try to join the Queen's household for social advancement. And then the sister scoffed and told her brother that she thought Catherine had low morals. After all, the sister said she had been there at Cat Catherine's grandmother's estate during those early years when she had had those pre king relationships. This brother, aghast, reported what his sister had said and the open secret finally became open. And when the investigation began, once Culpepper's name was mentioned, the Queen was already all but headless. In the autumn of 1541, when all of this came to a apologies head Catherine was placed under house arrest at Sion Abbey. With regards to Catherine's investigation, the records are actually abundant. In direct contrast with the shady investigation into Anne Boleyn. It's as if the court wanted to prove that if Henry was going to execute another wife, he was going to do this one completely above board, with all of the proper paperwork intact. We do not have the actual record for Jane's testimony during the trial of Anne Boleyn, but we do have it for Katherine Howard. Jane was questioned and while interrogated, she admitted that she thinketh that Culpepper hath known the Queen carnally. But she maintained that she never saw or heard any actual proof of consummation. Culpepper said that he had not slept with the Queen, but that he had planned to. Which unfortunately for Culpepper, was more than enough to condemn him. Planning on committing treason was still a death sentence. It is pretty undeniable that Jane had been involved. Five years after the death of Anne Boleyn, Jane was once again at the heart of a scandal that would lead to a headless queen. The French ambassador remarked that that Jane all her life had the name to esteem her honor little and has thus, in her old age, shown little amendment. During Jane's interrogation, she lost touch with reality. Under the pressure of knowing what was about to happen and realizing that there was no way out of it. Jane went mad after a nervous breakdown which manifested in fits of fancy. Though legally she couldn't stand trial for what she had done if she was insane. The King and his court was determined that this whole sordid Catherine Howard affair be dealt with completely and once and for all. A law was passed permitting the execution of the insane for high treason and Jane was committed by parliamentary act of attainder. According to an ambassador. When Jane was told that she would finally be put to death, her symptoms of madness left her. We don't have a direct account of what exactly Jane and Catherine Howard might have said on the scaffold before their deaths, but one merchant who was an eyewitness to the executions wrote in a letter that they made the most godly and Christian ends. Because no one comments explicitly on Jane saying anything particularly notable, we have to assume that she just made her proper prayers, apologized for her sins and begged for forgiveness from the king. As Nicola Clark writes in her book the Waiting Game, it's impossible to know why exactly Jane would have involved herself in such a deeply misguided scheme with Katherine Howard. Was she really just a real housewife type trying to stir up drama wherever she could? Clark writes. Perhaps she really was as guilty as her colleagues made her out to be, encouraging the affair for nefarious reasons of her own revenge on her family or on the king who had taken and twisted her words to kill her husband and to annul his own previous marriage, ruining her life and condemning her immortal soul. Perhaps she simply misjudged the situation and made some bad decisions. Perhaps, perhaps, perhaps. Whatever the reason at the time, Jane was decried as immoral and bawdy. And then years later she was shamed as a traitress for having turned against her own husband and sister in law. Why she did what she did is impossible to know. But it's always easier and to be frank, usually more fun to imagine a nefarious individual villain than it is to reckon with the complicated dynamics of power, autonomy, sex and cultures of gossip and ultimately meaningless murder given the gloss of legality. After Jane's head was separated from her body, she was buried in the Tower of London with Catherine Howard, the final queen. She served near the bodies of Jane's husband, George Boleyn and Jane, Jane's sister in law and Boleyn, a family plot of headless bodies. That's the story of Jane Boleyn, but keep listening. After a brief sponsor break to hear a little bit more about a gruesome legend surrounding Henry VIII's ultimate end.

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[Dana Schwartz]

feel like August is the Sunday of summer? It's the perfect time to hit reset before the autumn rush. And for me, that always starts with my wardrobe. Quince proves you don't need a crowded closet to look incredible. You just need the right pieces. Quince specializes in effortless, high quality essentials like ultra soft organic cotton and premium Mongolian cashmere sweaters. They're beautifully tailored, built to last and transition seamlessly from morning meetings to dinner. They have premium stretch denim starting at just $50 with the right kind of fit, structure and weight that you would expect from a luxury designer brand. And the best part is, everything at Quint is priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands because they work directly with ethical factories, cutting out the middlemen. You're paying for quality here, not brand markup. Personally, the Quint item that I have been reaching for over and over again, this is absolutely true. A Quince linen shirt dress. It is the perfect like effortless piece. You just throw a shirt dress on that like looks put together but is so comfortable it's like I'm wearing nothing. I wear it to work, I wear it to the farmer's market. I just throw it on when I'm hanging around around the house. And also, here's a secret. Quint's isn't just apparel. They bring the same everyday elevation to everything they offer, from hotel quality bedding and bath to kitchen staples and essentials and thoughtfully designed furniture. I have two quince tablecloths, a quince pair of sunglasses and quince curtains in my house. Upgrade your everyday Download the Quince app for app exclusive offers or go to quince.com noble get free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada and the UK too. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com noble back in 1532 when Henry VIII was still determined to marry Anne Boleyn. A friar, William Peto, publicly preached against it. He compared Anne Boleyn to the biblical Jezebel and Henry to King Ahab, and he declared during his Easter sermon that dogs would lick Henry's blood after his death, just as they did Ahab's. Fifteen years later. The prophecy may have come to fruition. May have? Henry died in 1547 and his body went on a funeral procession where it stayed overnight at Sion Abbey, incidentally, the same place where Catherine Howard had been put under house arrest before her imprisonment in the Tower of London. Coincidentally, Henry's body was there exactly five years minus a day after Catherine was beheaded. According to legend, Henry's coffin burst open and the well fluid dribbled out onto the floor. Men came in to repair the coffin before it continued along to its final burial at Windsor, but as the story goes, a dog at their feet lapped up some of the whatever it was before anyone could stop it. The dog part of the story is probably invention, but it's not unlikely that Henry's embalmed body did leak. The coffin had been jostled along on the journey, which had separated the plates, and the coffin would have also been swelling with the gases of decomposition in process, given the fact that Henry wasn't embalmed until three days after his death. Still, what came out of that coffin would not have been blood, and I imagine it wouldn't have been appealing to a dog or anything else. But maybe the posthumous humiliation, particularly the story around it, was just Catherine getting her revenge after all. Stories tend to stick around whether or not they're true. Noble Blood is a production of iHeartRadio and Grim and Mild from Erin Manke. Nobleblood is hosted by me, Dana Schwartz. Writers for Noble Blood are Hannah Johnston, Hannah Zwick, Paul Jaffe, Natasha Lasky and me, Dana Schwartz. The show is edited and produced by Jesse Funk and Gnomes Griffin, with supervising producer Rima Il Kayali and executive producers Erin Menke, Trevor Young and Matt Frederick. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

[Amazon Health AI / Sponsor Voice]

If you're alignment in charge of keeping the lights on, Grainger understands that you go to great lengths and sometimes heights to ensure the power is always flowing. Which is why you can count on Grainger for professional grade products and next day delivery so you have everything you need to get the job done. Call 1-800-granger, click grainger.com or just stop by Granger for the ones who get it done. Across America, money is being abandoned. By taking a few seconds to check Lyft before your next ride, you can give money a better home inside your wallet. Save the money. Check Lyft.

[Adam Devine, Blake Anderson, Anders Holm]

This is Adam Devine, Blake Anderson, and Anders Holm from this is Important.

[Dana Schwartz]

Hey, if you've been adulting too hard, this is your sign to take a break with Slice. Slice is a full flavored soda you loved back and better for you with real fizz. 5 grams of sugar or less, plus prebiotics, probiotics and postbiotics.

[Adam Devine, Blake Anderson, Anders Holm]

It's low sugar, gut friendly, and actually tastes like soda because it is a better soda. So the next time adulthood gets a little too serious, grab a Slice. Real Fizz. Real flavor, real benefits.

[Dana Schwartz]

This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.