In this gentle and quietly unsettling conversation, Hiroko Yoda invites us into a world where spirituality doesn’t begin with belief, but with attention. Drawing on her Japanese upbringing and her book Eight Million Ways to Happiness, Hiroko reflects on grief, ancestors, everyday ritual, and the idea of “half belief, half doubt” — a way of living that makes space for ambiguity rather than trying to resolve it. From small shrines in city parks to the simple act of taking a walk, she describes spirituality as a set of tools for pausing, noticing, and staying connected to the living world around us.

Together, Tim and Hiroko explore what happens when faith becomes less about certainty and more about participation: how joy and play find their way into sacred spaces, why traditions can be blended and remixed without anxiety, and what it might mean to belong without needing to define what you believe. It’s a conversation that gently challenges Western ideas of religion and invites listeners to experiment with a slower, softer, more attentive way of being in the world.

Following the interview, Nomad hosts Tim and Anna reflect on the disorientation and gift of meeting a spirituality that doesn’t play the same “belief game,” exploring simplicity, attention, and the idea of spiritual practices as tools rather than tests.

Interview starts at 17m 53s

Books, quotes, links →

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