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- [00:00]
Ria Wong
Hey, you, it's Ria Wong. If you're listening to Nonprofit Load on, I'm pretty sure that you'd love my weekly newsletter. Every Tuesday morning, you get updates on the newest podcast episodes. And then interspersed, we have fun special invitations for newsletter subscribers only and fundraising inspo because I know what it feels like to be in the trenches alone. On top of that, you get cute dog photos. Best of all, it is free. So what are you waiting for? Head over to riawong.com now to sign up Foreign. Welcome to Nonprofit Lowdown. I'm your host, Rhea Wong. Hey, podcast listeners, it's Ria Wong with you coming to you once again from non profit Lowdown. So we are heading into the last month of 2024. I gotta be honest, 2024, good riddance. I am ready for to be done. In this episode, I am talking to my friend Elizabeth Goldberg, who is a former CDO Chief Development Officer and current VP of Strategic fundraising. And today we are talking about building major gift programs from scratch. Elizabeth, welcome to the show.
- [01:10]
Elizabeth Goldberg
Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here.
- [01:12]
Ria Wong
Thank you for being here. Okay, before we jump into the nuts and bolts, because I know people are chomping at the bit to get into the details, tell us a little bit about yourself and your journey in the nonprofit sector.
- [01:23]
Elizabeth Goldberg
So I did not start off in the nonprofit sector. I started off doing right after college working for a textile manufacturer and at the same time volunteering in the nonprofit space. And really found that I got more joy out of the work that I was doing in the nonprofit space than working for a textile manufacturer. And so I ended up getting a master's from Brandeis when I learned that being a nonprofit professional was a career. After I finished my master's, I was trying to figure out where my place was at the time. I wanted to be a CEO of a small nonprofit.
- [01:58]
Ria Wong
And bless your heart.
- [02:00]
Elizabeth Goldberg
Yes. And I don't want to be that anymore.
- [02:02]
Ria Wong
No.
- [02:03]
Elizabeth Goldberg
So I. After two years of graduate school, I looked at my resume and said, I don't have any fundraising. And to be a successful CEO, I need fundraising. So I went and started working for an organization that only did fundraising, the Jewish Federation in Milwaukee, as a matter of fact, and started fundraising in 2008. I got there and the economy was fine. Six months in, the economy tanked. They gave me a portfolio and said, go. I said, what am I supposed to do? And they said, you'll figure it out. I have faith. And I thought, okay, thank you. So thankfully, I had a mentor who held my hand and talked to me like a colleague and was lovely. And she taught me how to fundraise and really how to meet people where they're at and really talk to them about philanthropy. And through the course of my experience of becoming a CDO over the next 10, 15 years, I decided that I did not want to be a CEO and that I loved talking to people about their gifts, their philanthropy, and how they can write a check and make an impact. And that was really awesome. And that's. I was happy where I was.
- [03:12]
Ria Wong
Yeah. Oh, you said so much that I really want to unpack here. But the thing that really struck me when we first started talking is that you're focused on your donors, which is probably why you're very successful. And I think often when we come from the perspective of being organization centric and we're thinking about what can they do for me and how big a check can they write and how can I say some kind of magical combination of words to get them to do the thing I want them to do. We miss the opportunity to make a human connection. And so I think when you're really investing in the relationship and asking people like, what do you want and how can I help you get it? It's a totally different perspective.
- [03:49]
Elizabeth Goldberg
So one of the. My first portfolio when I was in Milwaukee was young leaders. So not only did I have to talk to them about why they should give to a community campaign something that they can't hold, it's about building community. Oftentimes they weren't philanthropic and didn't understand why they should give back. Really taught me to ask the questions like, what are you passionate about? What do you want to see for your kids futures? What do you want to do with your money to make a difference? And I think that training has informed how I approach people. I think approaching a major donor who writes $100,000 check to several places is easier than convincing somebody that they need to write a hundred dollar check. And it's their first philanthropic endeavor. So it really pushed me to have those conversations.
- [04:38]
Ria Wong
I think that's such an important thing because I really believe that as fundraisers, our job is to help educate our donors and then to help them do the thing that they want to do in the world to get the impact that they want to see. But often I find that a lot of people haven't spent a lot of time thinking about what is my philanthropic desire. And so the gift that we can give them is the space and the opportunity to really help them think through what's the thing that's important to me and why?
- [05:09]
Elizabeth Goldberg
I think there's that. I think in validating that's okay. That they haven't thought about it and that they can be in this discovery process and they can change their mind and that there are other people that they can talk to and learn from and that if they don't give to the organization I'm working for, I'm just happy they're giving back to the community and they're being topic and just saying thank you for everything that you do to make the world a better place.
- [05:32]
Ria Wong
Can we talk about this briefly because the UJA is just so good and fundraising and I think part of it is the shared values around the Jewish values of giving and philanthropy. And I think what we're seeing nationally as people are less connected to religious communities that we're seeing individual giving down overall. So I'm just wondering how does that play in and is there a way that we can recapture that sense of values if it's not within a religious context?
- [06:02]
Elizabeth Goldberg
So that's a. I have to take a pause.
- [06:04]
Ria Wong
Yeah.
- [06:05]
Elizabeth Goldberg
Okay. So people in the Jewish community don't necessarily think about Judaism. They think about it like it's not the same correlation as I go to church and I'm helping my church because it is our. It is the values. It's beyond the synagogue. So there is a generation, generation X and like above who just think like Jewish community. That's what I need. That's. You always do this. That's where it's at. And then generations below are people who have had different experiences. In a lot of respects are Jews by choice. Like everybody is has to choose in America to be Jewish. It's all about being around like minded people and building community. And I think philanthropy can do that without religion. It can do that. What, who do you want to help and how do you want to do it? And where are like minded people? So I think it can. I think it's all about what are your values? What do you stand for? Who do you want your friends to be?
- [07:03]
Ria Wong
Yeah, yeah. I think that's a really. And I think particularly now in this divisive world that we're living in, it's it like we want more and more to be around people who share our values, whether that's right or wrong. Like I do think sometimes that can be a little, a bit of an. What are they calling the echo chamber of like. You agree with me. Yes, of course I agree with you. And I think that we are stronger Together.
- [07:28]
Elizabeth Goldberg
Yeah. I think that we are stronger together 100%. And I also think that there are issues like people experiencing homelessness or hunger or mental health that you can find shared value while everything else may be different. And that also brings us together to be able to find that nugget that we both land on instead of saying, oh, you voted left and I voted right. I don't want anything to do with you, but we both believe this thing.
- [07:58]
Ria Wong
Yeah.
- [07:58]
Elizabeth Goldberg
How can we work together for the better?
- [08:00]
Ria Wong
Yeah. At this point in the year, hopefully we will know who's won the presidential campaign. But I'll just harken back to the VP debate, which in a way felt a little retro because I was like, oh, a political discourse that actually was not based in insults and the fact that they said things like, oh, I agree with you. I'm like, whoa, do we remember a time before when actually political discussions were wonky and dare I say, boring.
- [08:29]
Elizabeth Goldberg
Yeah. Boring is not okay. More. Excuse me, boring is okay. Or agreeing is okay.
- [08:35]
Ria Wong
Yeah.
- [08:35]
Elizabeth Goldberg
And agreeing and then struggling with a solution makes us stronger. Struggling and having to look at why is this person's perspective that way? Why is this person doing that? Which I think we do as development people, we have to say our clients, you have this nice life, you as the philanthropist, have this money that you can give away. But the clients that we're serving think about, if you didn't have or if this situation, where would you be? And really opening to a different lens of a different perspective.
- [09:10]
Ria Wong
Yeah. And I also think part of it as a fundraiser to me is this value of being driven by curiosity, like curiosity about people and what makes them tick and what do they care about and why do they care about that thing? And I think sometimes when we're not sitting in that place of curiosity, and I think I see this a lot with fundraisers who have the pitch mentality of, okay, I'm just going to go in, I'm going to say, you miss the opportunity to gather really important information about who this person across the table from you is, what they stand for, what they believe.
- [09:42]
Elizabeth Goldberg
Yeah. I think that is asking probing questions and the reverse of that, listening and in some respects implying or asking follow up questions like I heard you say, or what does that look like? Or would it interest you to learn more about this and that and really having a meaningful conversation.
- [10:02]
Ria Wong
Yeah, I talk about this a lot in my training, which is there are really three levels of listening. The first level of listening, which is unfortunately where a lot of us spend most of our time Is listening to respond. Right. Like I have an agenda. I'm going to wait for a pause in conversation, say the thing that I want to say. Level two, listening, is, I'm here, I'm present. I'm fully listening. And then level three, listening, which is really hard to do. It takes a lot of energy, but is really where the magic happen, is listening for what's not being said, hearing the pauses, hearing the tone of voice, seeing the body language, and seeing what that really tells you.
- [10:37]
Elizabeth Goldberg
When I first started doing fundraising, the first, I really upset a donor, and I didn't pick up on it at all. She. Her husband owned a hotel. She wanted us to see about the hotel. Could we go to his hotel? But I said, no, we can't, because a big donor owns this hotel, so we have to go to that hotel. By the time I got back to the office, she was on the phone with my boss, the CEO. She was screaming. She was furious. I totally missed all of the. The signs. And I learned a lot from that experience. One, her husband's hotel was more expensive than we could have afforded anyway, so let the process play out. Why did I have to say no? And two, what does it mean to her? And am I watching her body la language? Like, she just shut down. And I was like, oh, she's just this nice woman. She just was quiet instead of really paying attention and thinking, I probably stepped in it.
- [11:26]
Ria Wong
Yeah. Oh. If I had to think about all of the conversations I've screwed up just because I didn't know or because I was young or because no one ever taught me, I'm like, it's so cringeworthy to even think about. I don't even want to go there. And then when you think about the ones that have gone. Right. But unfortunately, I think we learn more from when things go badly than when.
- [11:45]
Elizabeth Goldberg
They go, well, 100%. And that we have to be given the space to make those failure, to have those failures and to learn from them. Yeah, I think that's really important. And to reflect and be like, that's okay. I learned something. I won't do that again or I'll do that differently.
- [12:00]
Ria Wong
Yeah. And you said something that I thought was really interesting, too, which is that so often, myself included, we're thrown into fundraising without any guidance, without a structure, without a playbook, and, oh, go figure it out. And unfortunately, I think a lot of us, we do have to learn by trial and error, but a lot of us learn that we think that fundraising is about solicitation when, as you get Further on in your career, you realize that fundraising is actually about the development of the relationship pre and post gift. When we so focus on the solicitation, we get really tactical and that's when we burn out our relationships.
- [12:39]
Elizabeth Goldberg
I think that a hundred percent, I think there's an art and a science set up the science so that it goes so you don't have to spend a ton of time thinking about that and then work on the relationship. And what from the science can you use and individualize for different people? How do you have your skeleton of what your annual fund is supposed to be and don't people will raise their hand and want to give? Yes. You have to ask them. 90% of the reason people don't give is because they're not asked. But oftentimes, if you have a great conversation, somebody will say, or, what can I do for you? How much do you need for me? How can I get more involved? Because they, they're in it with you and they want to do it. And also they know we're fundraisers. They know we are coming to ultimately ask for money. It's not hidden.
- [13:26]
Ria Wong
Yeah, I'm curious because the thing that I hear from a lot of fundraisers is, okay, I'm out here and I'm calling my donors and nobody's calling you back. And I'm trying to build a relationship. It's as if it's like a thing I can do to you versus a thing that we, we have to do together. Like, why won't they let me build this relationship with them? So I'm curious, what are your favorite tips for relationship building?
- [13:51]
Elizabeth Goldberg
So for relationship building. So one, when you call people, it's a cold call. So is there somebody who is on your board, a volunteer, somebody who can actually make the introduction for you? And if they're uncomfortable writing the email, making the call, can you use their name? Who can validate that you are not just dialing for dollars? So that I think also using text messages or I had a staff person, she was like, I emailed them six times. They never got back to me. I said, did you call them? No. Did you even know that was the right email? Because we have old email addresses, right? Because people change email addresses all the time. They may not even be ignoring you.
- [14:31]
Ria Wong
Or it could be in spam. How many times are you calling a.
- [14:34]
Elizabeth Goldberg
Home line that nobody's going to pick up that may not even be connected and ring in the house? So I think trying to figure that out, how to get to the person in a real Human way. But also there are donors that I know I need to email a couple times a year, write notes to a couple times a year, and they just send in a check. They have no interest in meeting with me. And you know what? They feel passionate about enough about the organization. They feel like they have a relationship with the organization, and I take that as a win.
- [15:04]
Ria Wong
Yeah, okay.
- [15:05]
Elizabeth Goldberg
You don't want to meet with me, fine. But I remind you, we're still here. We're still here. We still care about you. Here's the impact, and you still write a check. Great.
- [15:14]
Ria Wong
Yeah. I think you flagged something here that I want everyone listening to, really think about is generational differences. Because by and large, a lot of our frontline fundraisers tend to be younger. Right. They tend to be maybe Gen X, millennials, Gen Z. Lord help us. We got Gen Zers out here doing frontline fundraising, and your major donors are probably boomers and Gen X. And so there are differences in generational communication, habits, expectations. Like, my parents still have a landline.
- [15:49]
Elizabeth Goldberg
Exactly.
- [15:50]
Ria Wong
So I think part of the training that we need to offer our frontline fundraisers is around how do you communicate with different generations of people? Like, what is their preferred mode of communication, which is not necessarily your preferred mode of communication.
- [16:05]
Elizabeth Goldberg
I think that's interesting. So when I got to Milwaukee, I was 30 and probably the youngest by 20 years in the office who was a frontline fundraiser. And there was lots of conversations about generations. So I had to, like, think about, like, how do I talk with baby boomers and all of that. And then in my previous role at Crystal 80, I realized that I was the old person and I didn't know younger generations had to talk to them and. Which meant they probably also didn't know how to talk to me.
- [16:36]
Ria Wong
That's right.
- [16:37]
Elizabeth Goldberg
So just in the course of us building team, having those conversations, and then could refer back and say, that person is 80. Are we sure that they, like. Do they check their email every day? I don't know. Do they? Did you ask them? Did you ask them their preferred mode of communication? Are you emailing them and they want you to call the landline?
- [16:59]
Ria Wong
Yeah, yeah, just ask them. It's so funny you say that. My first year as Ed, I wrote an annual appeal letter. This is back in the mid 2000s. And because I was trying to fit it all into one page, the font was pretty small. And it wasn't like small, it was like 11. And I remember my board chair at the time looking at me like, people aren't going to Be able to read that. I was like, what do you mean? Like, I can read it. I was 26 years old at the time. And she was like, if you're, say, over 50, like, you cannot read that. And I was like, oh, it was a really good lesson in getting out of my own way.
- [17:36]
Elizabeth Goldberg
Yeah, I think it's hard. And also, I think as fundraisers, the money goes to the organization, the win goes to the organization, and it is like, who's stroking our egos? And how do we do that without having having it get in the way of the donor and the organization? How do we see the success of the organization as our success? The success of the philanthropist who just made this huge gift our success. But not looking at them is just a check.
- [18:02]
Ria Wong
Yeah.
- [18:03]
Elizabeth Goldberg
Like, it's a really hard. It's hard. And it easily go transactional because you're like, my win is, I met my goal. I got these checks. But sometimes the win is they like us and they introduced us to five people. Or they talk really. They say great things about us, or, the check's gonna come in three years.
- [18:22]
Ria Wong
Yeah, that's the thing too, especially with major gift fundraising is. It's not quick necessarily. It takes what, on average, 18 months from start to finish. And so I. And I'm just gonna put this on. On the. The shoulders of boards and CEOs who are expecting, like, quick money wins. We have to meet this goal by this quarter. And I'm not saying that we shouldn't work without a sense of urgency, but I think that when we are working in service of the organization above our donors, that's when we get transactional, and that's when we're like, how many people can we call get in this money by this date, whether or not it actually suits the timing of our donor?
- [19:01]
Elizabeth Goldberg
Yeah. There's the short term goal. Every year we have an annual goal we have to meet, and then you have to look long term. Like I've said to boards, you want me to go in and ask them for this big gift? I will do that. It'll probably be a one and done.
- [19:14]
Ria Wong
Yeah.
- [19:14]
Elizabeth Goldberg
Because they just think I want their money. You want me to let them work up to that and really show them the impact of their dollars. Ultimately, they'll give more over time and probably bigger gifts in the end. So I know we have this pressure where we have to meet our budget this year, but sometimes that doesn't serve us well for longevity of the organization.
- [19:34]
Ria Wong
Yeah. It reminds me of the Killing the golden goose parable.
- [19:38]
Elizabeth Goldberg
I don't know that parable.
- [19:39]
Ria Wong
Do you not know the parable?
- [19:40]
Elizabeth Goldberg
I don't think so, no.
- [19:41]
Ria Wong
So there's a goose that lays golden eggs. Oh, okay. It lays, but it only lays like one egg every day. And the farmer who owns the goose is reading his there must be more eggs in the goose. So he kills the goose only to find that of course there are no golden eggs inside the goose. The moral of the story being, like, when you try to rush, like when you get greedy, when you try to overreach a process, like you end up with nothing because you killed the goose.
- [20:11]
Elizabeth Goldberg
Yeah, 100%, that is. And also, people don't like you looking at them as a checkbook or you counting their money in their checkbook. Yeah, nobody likes that.
- [20:20]
Ria Wong
Nobody likes that. Yeah, I know. It's so funny because when you put it in terms that people can understand, you're like, okay, when is the last time you liked being called up for coffee just to be solicited? When was the last time that you liked someone counting your money and saying and thinking that of wealth? Screen says that you can afford this, so obviously I'm entitled to this money that is actually yours.
- [20:43]
Elizabeth Goldberg
Yeah. And the wealth Screenings say that some people can't give money, but they do write big checks because your organization speaks to them and they want to be major donors and they want to be the top you to be their top priority. Screening is very skewed, girl.
- [21:03]
Ria Wong
Don't get me started on, well, screens. I mean, I think we could go on and on, but I think we can all agree that they are not accurate. And particularly for folks who live in high income areas like New York, Atlanta, San Francisco, Louisiana because they calculate your real estate in your network and frankly, as I say all the time, no one's going to sell their house just to give you a donation.
- [21:29]
Elizabeth Goldberg
Nope, nobody is going to do that.
- [21:31]
Ria Wong
Look, somebody might. Generally speaking. No.
- [21:34]
Elizabeth Goldberg
Like very few people, they have more than one house.
- [21:36]
Ria Wong
Sure, sure.
- [21:38]
Elizabeth Goldberg
And they want the tax write off and it's easier and they want you to deal with selling it.
- [21:42]
Ria Wong
Okay, fine. In that very rare case that may have.
- [21:44]
Elizabeth Goldberg
In that very rare case, but otherwise, no, people are not. It's not the way that we think about philanthropy in America. We think about philanthropy as the extra money. The thing that I've done everything I want to do and I have this extra money so I can do good. There are very few people who think I'm not going to do X, Y and Z so I can do good.
- [22:03]
Ria Wong
Yeah, I'm not going to pay my Kids tuition this year so I can give a bigger philanthropic gift probably. All right, let's switch tasks a little bit because I know folks want to get to the nitty gritty. So we want to talk about establishing a major gift program. And I know I can already hear all of my people out here being like, I don't have the time, I don't have the capacity. I can't even wrangle the time to eat lunch on a regular basis. How the heck am I going to start a major gift program? So if you would, Elizabeth, can you walk us through a case study what you did at Chris180?
- [22:36]
Elizabeth Goldberg
Yeah. So we talked about a little bit about the science and the art of running annual campaign. I think it's really important that you get the science down the structure. Who are you going to solicit? Who are you going to send direct mails to? Who's in your email? Who's going to get stewardships, a communications calendar, even with topics or months? Are we going to do a peer to peer, what kind of campaigns and really lay out and have a real plan? The reason I think that's really important is because thinking about that stuff takes up a lot of time. So if you say every time we send a direct mail we're going to pull this list poll, I'm going to look over it. Is there anybody we want to add? Subtract. You're starting from somewhere and you're shrinking the time that it takes to do those acts. So making sure that you're working harder, not smart. Excuse me, smarter, not harder. And really also from those examples, what can you take to personalize to your donors? So you write an email is very short. It's a short story about somebody. Can you call a donor and say did you see that email? Let me tell you more about that client, what they were experiencing, how will that work? So really leveraging what you're already producing for the mass. So I think that's one is get your structure down, have a plan, know where you want to go and just lay it out and let that machine do its thing. Granted you still have to think and be involved, but the timing of how much thought you have to put into it, shrink that and then look at your donors. When I went to Chris180, the first thing I did was the mall.
- [24:11]
Ria Wong
How many people were that?
- [24:14]
Elizabeth Goldberg
I think we have 15 that gave over $5,000. It was not that many. And then there were several people who gave $1,000. I came in October and there were people who hadn't been, hadn't given yet. I remember I asked the data person for contact information and she gave me emails and I said to her, where the phone numbers? And she asked for phone numbers. And I was like, so nobody's ever called these people? No. So I like called them all. I also called them all. I met with them. I asked them who of their friends should be getting involved. Why? First of all, like this organization's been around for 35 years. Teach me, why are you involved? What do you love about it? What? Why are you passionate? Where else do you give? Where do we need to improve? And really again that listening to them.
- [25:06]
Ria Wong
So wait, Elizabeth, before you jump in, because I think you skipped over something that I think is a real obstacle for people. So one, I think the fact that you pick up the phone is really important. So I think a lot of people are out here saying I don't have time to call. But in reality, if you really just dedicated a day or an afternoon, I'm pretty sure you could get through your whole list. So that's the first thing. Second thing is I think people don't call or they don't make every effort to contact because they are afraid of rejection or they're afraid that people won't pick up the phone or they're afraid that people will pick up the phone and be mean to them. So I guess part of it is my question to you is how did you psych yourself up for hey, I might pick up the phone and someone might be pissed off because we didn't say thank you for their last gift. Or I might pick up the phone and someone might tell me to piss off or I might pick up the phone and people will hang up on me. How did you work through that?
- [26:05]
Elizabeth Goldberg
The Jewish Federation system still has phone a thons and they sit all day and you get a stack of pledge cards and you go through and you just call people you call, dial for dollars. So that definitely desensitized me because people would hang up on me, tell me that they were unhappy, would unload on me as well as the positive surprise gifts and thank you so much. So a little bit of I had the training by fire in some respects. But also I call and say, do you have some time to talk? And if they would say no, I say, when can I call you back? And I would follow up, I would also say, I'm new, you're very. I, you've been giving to this organization. I just want to learn more about you. So it was really, it wasn't about the Ask, it was about the relationship. Why are you here in this space? Share with me what you love about this space and why you invest in this organization. And it wasn't so much about the ask. Now in October I would sit, call them and say thank you so much. You've been giving for a long time. I'd love to get to know you. But I also, I see that in previous years you've given around October and we're in October and I just wanted to see if you would consider doing that again. I don't really have a really hard sell style.
- [27:22]
Ria Wong
Yeah. Let me ask you this because I think the other thing is that increasingly I think that trust is eroding with our institutions. I mean, it's just harder to get people on the phone. It's harder to get them to pay attention, particularly in a busy election year. And so do you have any tips or thoughts about, hey, I reached out to this person and they're not responsive at all. What do you do?
- [27:46]
Elizabeth Goldberg
I usually write them a handwritten note. I write them a handwritten note and if they are connected to a volunteer or a board member that I know, I call and say, hey, I've been trying to get in touch with such and such is something they haven't responded. Should I give up? Is there something, should I try something different? And I would say about 50% of the time they've just got other stuff going on and it has nothing to do with me. It's family stuff, whatever. And the other 50%, I would say 25% of the time it's, did you text them? Oh, you emailed them in this email address. They don't ever look at that. And then the other 25% is they're just not interested. That's okay, but thank you for asking or I'll ask them. And that's also I said like, will you call them and say, have they been getting my emails?
- [28:31]
Ria Wong
Yeah.
- [28:32]
Elizabeth Goldberg
Do they want them? Will you do some intel for and find some intel for me?
- [28:37]
Ria Wong
Yeah. And I think too, the other thing that I just want fundraisers out here to hear is that hope is not a strategy. I think sometimes we keep reaching out to the same people, hoping that one day, one day they will change their mind and be interested. I'm like, you don't have time for that. Like talk to the people who actually want to hear from you.
- [28:53]
Elizabeth Goldberg
There is a time like where situations may change and somebody who wasn't interested it, their situation may change and but when you have limited resources Go for the low hanging fruit. That definitely. And you say to a board member, if something ever changes, will you let me know? Or say to them, like, if you're ever interested in learning more, please give me a call. And I've had that too. Where people have said, we talked three years ago, I really wasn't the right time. And now it is.
- [29:23]
Ria Wong
That's exactly right. And I think we, we have to understand that everyone works on their own timeline and it has nothing to do with our timeline.
- [29:30]
Elizabeth Goldberg
No, our emergency is not their emergency. Absolutely not. Yeah, our emergency.
- [29:36]
Ria Wong
Yeah. I've been saying this and it seems harsh, but I think it's true. Nobody cares about you. They just care about themselves. They don't care about your year end. They don't care about you need to make payroll by this quarter. That sounds like a problem. Not on my problem.
- [29:50]
Elizabeth Goldberg
So I think if fundraisers also really understood that, then the rejection, they would really understand. The rejection is not about them. And it takes some of the fear out. That person wasn't nice to you that day. Who knows what they had going on. You just happen to be the person that called at that minute.
- [30:07]
Ria Wong
That's right.
- [30:08]
Elizabeth Goldberg
Okay, let it cool off. Maybe you're not the right person to call, have somebody else call, or maybe you just let it go. But it's not about you and it shouldn't be about us. Yeah, it's about the organization and about the donor. Yeah, we're just the conduit.
- [30:22]
Ria Wong
That's exactly right. We, I say we're just the Yoda is to their story. Right. Like we're just helping them to get on their great adventure, whatever that might be for them. Okay, let's go back to the details. And oh gosh, time is really flowing. So we had to wrap this up somewhat quickly. But so you have this existing donor base. You do the phone calls of people who've given above a certain threshold and then do you. Did you move those people into a cultivation process? Did you look at your lower dollar donors? Like, how did you construct what you would consider to be a major gift program?
- [30:55]
Elizabeth Goldberg
So I don't know that it was that tensional. Like I didn't say. Johnny over here had a nice conversation with them. I think they have more money. Let's put them in major gifts. We had an advisory council that not all of them were giving. And I thought that was really important. So how do we engage them more? How do we engage these donors more and share more about what the need is? And those people just raised their hand so it was really, again, about listening and talking to them and really hearing what they have going on. Now. There weren't that many donors. We didn't have thousands of donors. So it wasn't so hard to figure it out. If we did, I would do it by zip code or how often they come to an event, or we would have tours. Do they come to a tour and do they want to continue the conversation? How are they responding to what we're offering? Because the more engaged and the more information and the more questions they had that we asked of them and then they had of us, the checks just got bigger.
- [31:55]
Ria Wong
Yeah. And when you say, raise their hand, what did that look like? What did that sound like? What did that feel like?
- [32:00]
Elizabeth Goldberg
So what did that feel like? When is your next tour? I want to bring my friend. I saw in the news that you all were doing this thing. Can you tell me more about that? Oh, you're having an advisory council meeting. I really want to come. What's the next topic? Or I'm really sad that I missed that. Those were open. How do I join the board? Also, can we meet every quarter and you can give me an update? So it was really about taking them, taking the lead. Or they wrote me that really nice note. Thank you so much. It really meant a lot to me, and I was really interested in this topic. Personal touches and the remembering what they were interested in. And people would say, like, you caught me right now. All of our philanthropic dollars are done. Make sure you talk to me in March next year, because I want to change that up. Yeah, I would call them in March.
- [32:53]
Ria Wong
And make sure it's like, hey, make a note on the CRM system call.
- [32:57]
Elizabeth Goldberg
I would say, you. I wanted. We had this conversation, and it's March, so I'm just calling back. Is now still. Do we still want to have that conversation? And really, like, you said this thing six months ago. Is it still true?
- [33:08]
Ria Wong
Yeah. And I think you just. You hit upon something that I think is really important, too, which is, I think a lot of fundraisers get into this idea of building the relationship means, like, the handwritten notes and the phone calls and the taking them out for coffees. And I think that can all be part of it, but really what? The building. The relationship is actually providing value to them, not providing value to you. And I think sometimes we think about it like, oh, I invited them on a site visit. So, like, that was a meaningful touch point. Maybe if it's valuable to them, or maybe they thought they were doing you a favor. You don't know unless you've actually asked them.
- [33:46]
Elizabeth Goldberg
So one of the things I talk to new fundraisers about, there are going to be people that you are really going to enjoy spending time with with, and you are going to want to go to lunch with them or coffee all the time because they are really fun. You want them to be your friend. They are not going to make a bigger gift. They are your friend, and that is okay. And then there are going to be people that it's going to be painful to go to lunch with, but that is your job. There are people that meet in the middle that you really enjoy, and they want to give money, but you also have to distinguish those relationships. Is this just because I really like them, or am I moving the agenda forward? I had a young person say to me, I guess she's not so young anymore. When does the personal relationship turn to the professional? And I was like, it's, yes, it's all personal and it's all professional. Like, it doesn't split.
- [34:36]
Ria Wong
Yeah.
- [34:37]
Elizabeth Goldberg
Somebody tells you they just come back from a great vacation and they did all of this. And what can you assume from that? And then how do you respond to all of that? To weave it into, did you know we have clients who don't have those opportunities? Or, I don't know, just different things to bring it back to the mission.
- [34:56]
Ria Wong
Yeah. I think what's important about what you're saying is to be really intentional and transparent about the conversation. Found myself getting friend zoned. I definitely have had a couple of those relationships where I'm like, now we're friends. And it's awkward because I know you just think I like hanging out with you, which I did. But also I was like, you work for a foundation. Like, clearly I was talking to you because you work for a foundation. One of the strategies that I teach on in my course is really about when you do a full qualification, being very transparent about, hey, we're going to go on this journey together, and at the end of it, I am going to put a proposal for funding in front of you. And does that sound good to you? Let's talk about what this engagement is so everyone knows what we're in for. It's no surprise at the end. Oh, by the way, jk, we weren't really friends. I was just trying to get a gift out of you.
- [35:45]
Elizabeth Goldberg
Yeah, I. When I've heard you say that and been listening to your podcast, I was talking to somebody else. They also talked about, like, putting a written proposal and what I. I really thought about I. I definitely don't put written proposals, but I definitely say, okay, these are the steps. We're gonna, like, invite you to this, and if that feels good, then we're gonna think about this. This next steps. Like, I all I do ask people, like, does this next step sound okay? Does that process sound okay? Yeah, it's very similar to, what do you want to do next? Should I call you in three months? Yeah, call you back. And like, when should I call you? Have the conversation and take their lead. But really, we're in this together. Or I would say to people, like, I really like you, like, as a friend. So we're going to have to go to, you know, we'll change this to, like, drinks at 5:00, because I really can't do this on the clock.
- [36:37]
Ria Wong
Right, right, right, right.
- [36:38]
Elizabeth Goldberg
And, like, really make it clear. Or when people, when I had to ask friends for a gift, I would say, like, you're still in my portfolio. Are you comfortable with me us having this conversation, or you want me to bring in one of my colleagues? Like, how do you want to handle that?
- [36:52]
Ria Wong
Yeah, and I think the important thing here, that I want everyone to hear is that you are letting the donor feel like they are in control and have consent. Because I think the other thing is we just make a lot of assumptions. Oh, you have money, therefore, I'm going to put you in this cultivation phase. But at no point do we actually ask them, do you want to be in this cultivation phase? Is this step the right next step for you? Do you want to come to the gala? Do you want to come on a site visit? Do you want to come on the tour? Is that interesting to you? And if they say no, then, like, don't invite them. Or maybe you invite them, but expect that they're not going to come. And so I think where I see the current fundraising practices to be such a so problematic is we don't off. We don't ask enough about the consent and interests of the donor.
- [37:36]
Elizabeth Goldberg
Right. And I think you said, like you said, we assume they have money. Like, we assume that they have money and that they want to give it to us.
- [37:43]
Ria Wong
That's right.
- [37:44]
Elizabeth Goldberg
Maybe they're sending their kid to college or they're helping their nieces and nephews. Who knows? Yes, they may have money on paper, but is it liquid? Are they helping somebody else? Are we their top three passions? We may not be. They may be writing. Yeah, so they write $100,000 gift to somebody else. They should be giving to us. Okay. Yes, we should Ask them. And it'd be nice. They would give. But we haven't proven ourselves. We haven't made a connection that to them. They see they're not just going to write a check. Yeah, some people do, but again, yeah.
- [38:17]
Ria Wong
And I think this kind of goes to my pet peeve about some fundraisers. Not all, but is the idea that somehow you're entitled to someone's money, it's not your money. Like you don't get to say what they should or should not do. If they wanted to take that money and light it on fire, that's their business. I wouldn't recommend it necessarily. But it's not my money.
- [38:39]
Elizabeth Goldberg
Yeah, it's not your money and it is not your. Again, it goes back to counting somebody else's checkbook and telling them what they should be doing.
- [38:46]
Ria Wong
Right.
- [38:46]
Elizabeth Goldberg
Nobody that feels yucky to anybody at any level.
- [38:50]
Ria Wong
Yeah.
- [38:50]
Elizabeth Goldberg
So why would some. Maybe they're supporting adult kids, I don't know. But if I don't ask, I'm making an assumption that says, oh, you're going to write a big check to me without asking, like why? And what do you have going on? Really engaging the person again, to your point and giving, having them be part of the process and give consent for the process.
- [39:09]
Ria Wong
And also I think on us, it is incumbent to offer. If I'm going to ask for a hundred thousand dollar tech, I need to offer $100,000 experience. Right. What about this ask that I'm going to make has made you feel that I've given you a reason, a commensurate reason to give this amount, whether it's because you were moved emotionally, because this is your topic, giving priority, because this allows you to do something that you want in your life. I think we have to be in the mindset of giving first before trying to get.
- [39:39]
Elizabeth Goldberg
Yep, I agree 100%. And if we get first to also say, let me show you your impact.
- [39:47]
Ria Wong
Yes. Yeah, we don't close that loop for people. Let me tell you what we did with your money.
- [39:51]
Elizabeth Goldberg
Or let's go. I this guy I solicited and I think his first gift was $10,000. And the first thing I said to him was like, this particular program is your passion. When can we make time for you to meet with the program people? I was like, either we can go to their site, we can have a phone call, what is best for you. And we worked it out and he spent, I don't know, two hours talking to them and his gift kept going up and up and he would just say, I know you're doing good work. I talked to them three years ago. Yeah, I know the work they're doing.
- [40:28]
Ria Wong
Yeah.
- [40:28]
Elizabeth Goldberg
And he just held onto that experience.
- [40:30]
Ria Wong
Yeah. And I think that's the other thing too, that we forget is that we are giving just as much as they are. We have value and they have value. And I think sometimes we go into this conversation assuming that we're in a supplicant position. Like we're on our knees. I'm like, no, we are creating value in the world. They also have resources that are value. And we're combining it together to do something that either of us couldn't do alone. And when you come from that perspective and not from this perspective of being inferior or supplicant, I think it just gives you power. Elizabeth, my friend, we could go on for hours, I'm sure, But we do have to wrap up. Any last thoughts? Anything that we didn't cover that you think is important to know. For all those folks out there thinking about a major gift program, it is.
- [41:10]
Elizabeth Goldberg
Easier when you are comfortable talking about wealth and being around people who are wealthy and understanding that what you may do may not be what they would do. Not necessarily judging, we all judge, but not bringing that to the table as a negative judgment of them. If somebody tells you that they just went on a shopping spree and they don't have any extra money, so they're only going to write you a hundred dollar check, if you look at them like, what are you spending your money on and why would you do that? And you make them feel bad, they're certainly never going to give you a bigger check. And being around wealthy people, it is different. And you have to be comfortable. And I think it's really important to be authentic to know that not everybody is going to connect with you and that that is okay and that not everything is a win.
- [41:59]
Ria Wong
I always think about it this way, which is the win is the ask. Because ultimately you have no control over whether or not someone says yes or no. Like, you have no. Unless you have some mind control abilities that I do not have, that is not within your control. But what isn't in your control is all the stuff that you do up to that point. And if you got the ask out of your mouth and that is the win.
- [42:19]
Elizabeth Goldberg
Yeah. In that respect, it is like sales. You could have the best pitch, the best experience, and it's not up to you. Yeah, you're gonna buy it, they're gonna give the gift, or they're not. And it may just there may be things that are again out of your control.
- [42:34]
Ria Wong
The control freak in me does not like that. But yes, that is true.
- [42:37]
Elizabeth Goldberg
The control freak in me does not like that either. But again, one of the things I think when you have a development plan and you've done everything that you can do, that you are controlling what you can control. You've gotten the ask out, you've engaged them. It is you have done. December 15th. I want to look at my team and say we do everything to get every dollar that's on the table. People are now away for vacation. Did we do everything we could do? The dollars will either come in or they won't. But if we did everything we could do, then we did our jobs.
- [43:08]
Ria Wong
Yeah, that's right. That's right. Elizabeth, my friend, this has been great. I appreciate you. I will make sure to put all of your information in the show notes for folks. Happy end of year. Hey fundraisers. Looking to nail those big fundraising asks? Check out my Big ask gift program@riawong.com bag. Say goodbye to uncertainty and hello to confidence with my program. Get expert strategies and personalized support to secure those game changing donations. Don't let fear hold you back. Join me and take your fundraising to new heights. We're enrolling now@riawong.com bag. That's riawong.com bag. So if you like big asks and you cannot lie, I'll see you in the program.