#329- Mastering Major Gifts: A Conversation with Rhea Wong

Summary

Nonprofit Lowdown Episode #329: Mastering Major Gifts with Rhea Wong

Release Date: March 17, 2025

In Episode #329 of Nonprofit Lowdown, host Rhea Wong delves into the intricacies of major gift fundraising, offering insightful strategies and actionable advice to help nonprofit leaders secure transformative donations. This episode, recorded during a webinar hosted in collaboration with Nonprofit Storytelling Conferences' Tactical Tuesdays, features a dynamic conversation between Rhea and her guest, Josh. Below is a comprehensive summary of their discussion, enriched with notable quotes and timestamps for reference.

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1. Introduction and Episode Overview

Rhea Wong opens the episode by addressing the common frustrations nonprofit leaders face with fundraising efforts, particularly when initial quarters don’t meet expectations. She introduces the topic of major gift fundraising and emphasizes the importance of attracting larger donations to elevate organizational impact.

Rhea Wong [00:00]: "Are you tired of chasing donors with little to show for it? It's time to hit reset."

2. Rhea Wong’s Expertise and Approach to Major Gift Fundraising

Rhea shares her extensive background in the nonprofit sector, highlighting her successful tenure as an executive director in New York City, where she grew her organization’s private funds from $250,000 to nearly $3 million annually. She underscores her belief in the power of major gifts, noting that about 75% of private philanthropic dollars in the U.S. are contributed by individuals, with the top 10% of donors responsible for 90% of these funds.

Rhea Wong [03:50]: "The reason why I focus on major gifts is we know that when we look at the philanthropic pie, generally about 75% of all philanthropic dollars... are given by individuals."

While advocating for targeting major donors, Rhea clarifies that this focus should not come at the expense of nurturing smaller donors, as both segments are crucial for sustaining and growing nonprofit initiatives.

3. Q&A Session: Initiating Communication with New Major Donor Prospects

Question from James [04:21]:
"I'm using a donor prospecting platform to find and identify new major donors. Once I get a list of prospective donors, what's the best way to initiate communication?"

Rhea critiques the reliance on donor prospecting platforms like WealthScreen and DonorWell, pointing out their limitations in accuracy and engagement assessment.

Rhea Wong [04:21]: "The data that they collect is not always accurate... Especially in places like New York City where people buy co-ops... there’s a lot of opacity."

Instead of immediately launching appeal campaigns, Rhea advocates for a survey strategy to qualify prospects based on five key criteria:

1. Reason for Giving: Does the nonprofit’s cause align with the donor’s personal motivations?
2. Engagement: Is the potential donor already interacting with the organization through emails, events, or volunteering?
3. Capacity: Does the donor have the financial means to contribute significantly?
4. Timing: Is the donor ready to give now?
5. Permission to Reach Out: Has the donor consented to further communication?

Rhea Wong [05:44]: "I teach what is called a survey strategy... do a well run robust marketing campaign."

This approach ensures that nonprofits engage with prospects who are not only capable of giving but are also genuinely interested and ready, fostering more meaningful and effective relationships.

4. Q&A Session: Increasing Visibility Amid Donor Advised Funds (DAFs)

Question from Diana [18:58]:
"What do you see as the best strategy to increase visibility of your work at a time when donor advised funds or DAFs are increasingly popular for individuals?"

Rhea addresses the challenge of DAFs, which often act as opaque intermediaries, making direct donor identification difficult. She suggests a multifaceted approach focusing on four key areas of scaling:

1. Traffic: Ensuring sufficient visibility and reach.
2. Conversion: Turning visibility into active donors.
3. Donor Lifetime Value: Maximizing the revenue from each donor by increasing the frequency and size of their contributions.
4. Retention: Keeping donors engaged and preventing attrition.

Rhea Wong [19:07]: "If you know your donor lifetime value, you then know how much you can spend on donor acquisition and donor retention."

To counter the obscurity introduced by DAFs, Rhea recommends broad-based marketing strategies combined with targeted efforts to engage philanthropic advisors and program officers who can influence donor decisions.

5. Strategies for Building and Leveraging an Email List

Rhea emphasizes the paramount importance of owning and nurturing an email list over relying solely on social media followers, which are subject to algorithm changes and platform ownership constraints.

Rhea Wong [22:16]: "The email list is what you own. The email list is where you nurture the relationship."

She advises nonprofits to:

• Regularly communicate with their email lists through informative and engaging content.
• Use surveys and interactive content to assess donor engagement and preferences.
• Implement welcome sequences and personalized interactions to build trust and loyalty.

6. Engaging Unsubscribed Major Donors

Question from Fled Away [29:39]:
"Most of my major donors have unsubscribed from my stuff, right? How do you then engage with them?"

Rhea and Josh discuss strategies to re-engage major donors who have opted out of email communications. Recommendations include:

• Personal Outreach: Sending individualized emails or making phone calls to reconnect.
• Alternative Communication Channels: Utilizing direct mail or text messages where appropriate.
• Enhancing Email Content: Improving the value and relevance of email content to prevent future unsubscribes.

Josh [29:39]: "If your major donors have opted out of your email list, that's fine. Send a personal email."

Rhea adds that unsubscribes often indicate that email content lacks value, encouraging nonprofits to refine their messaging and approach.

7. Enhancing Donor Relationships: Being the Guide in Their Story

Rhea introduces a storytelling framework inspired by Joseph Campbell's hero's journey, positioning donors as the heroes and fundraisers as their guides. This shift from a transactional relationship to a partnership fosters deeper connections and mutual empowerment.

Rhea Wong [16:57]: "This is the story of your donor. Everyone sees themselves as the hero of their own story."

By aligning the nonprofit’s mission with the donor’s personal narrative and aspirations, fundraisers can create more compelling and meaningful engagement opportunities.

8. Conclusion and Key Takeaways

The conversation wraps up with Rhea highlighting the importance of thoughtful donor engagement and personalized interactions. She underscores that making donors feel special through personalized gestures can significantly enhance relationship quality and loyalty.

Rhea Wong [34:49]: "There’s nothing wrong with making people feel special a hundred percent."

Josh and Rhea conclude by encouraging listeners to adopt these strategies to transform their major gift fundraising efforts, emphasizing the blend of strategic planning and heartfelt relationship-building.

Josh [35:07]: "We have to have you back because this was an awesome conversation."

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Key Takeaways

• Prioritize Major Gifts: Focus on the top percentile of donors who contribute the majority of funds, while maintaining support for smaller donors.
• Qualify Donors Effectively: Use survey strategies to assess donors' reasons for giving, engagement levels, capacity, timing, and willingness to be contacted.
• Optimize Marketing Strategies: Leverage email lists over social media, engage philanthropic advisors, and utilize tools like DAF widgets to increase visibility.
• Personalize Engagement: Move beyond transactional interactions by positioning donors as heroes and fundraisers as their guides, fostering deeper and more meaningful relationships.
• Enhance Communication Value: Ensure all communications offer genuine value to prevent donor attrition and encourage sustained engagement.

For nonprofit leaders seeking to master major gift fundraising, Episode #329 of Nonprofit Lowdown with Rhea Wong offers a wealth of knowledge and practical strategies to elevate their fundraising efforts and build lasting, impactful donor relationships.

Transcript

[Rhea Wong]

Nonprofit leaders, let's be real. Did Q1 fundraising not go the way you wanted? Are you tired of chasing donors with little to show for it? It's time to hit reset. Join Ria for a free live webinar on Wednesday, March 19th at 12pm Eastern where she will show you a new way to make Q2 kick ass, learn how to attract bigger gifts, stop wasting time, and finally, fundraise with confidence. Plus, show up live and get an exclusive in person bonus. Register now at Rhee and let's turn Q2 into your best fundraising quarter yet. Hey nonprofit Lowdown Fam. Rhea here. Today's episode is a webinar that I did with our friends over at Nonprofit Storytelling conferences, Tactical Tuesdays. Here you'll hear my thoughts on major gift fundraising today. Speaking of, I'm starting a new podcast feature where I'll answer your questions on my podcast. If you have a burning question, Please email to questionyawong.com that's Q U E S T I o [e-mail] enjoy the show. Welcome to Nonprofit Lowdown. I'm your host, Rhea Wong.

[Josh]

Everybody say hello to Rhea. She's here to save the day and to save your day by talking to you about a bunch of major gift fundraising and how you should be leaning in to your major donors right now. Hi Rhea, we didn't have a chance to catch up, but your voice has been in my head for the last few days as I've been binging your podcast and I'll drop a link to that in just a minute. I was making breakfast for the kids this morning with the earbuds in. My daughter asked what I was listening to so I pulled them out and the whole family listened. We were listening on 1.5 speed so it was just a little bit fast. You are in such good luck to be in the loving, caring hands of Wong today. She's going to run through an incredible presentation, certainly help you and just thank you for being here.

[Rhea Wong]

I am Ria Wong. I have been in the nonprofit sector my whole career. After a very brief and failed attempt at journalism because the Internet and I was an executive director here in New York City for 12 and a half years. When I started my organization, I think our budget was 250k a year. When I left 12 and a half years later, we were raising just under 3 million a year in private funds. Of the 3 million, about 70 75% of them were individuals, most giving at a minimum of four figures. Our biggest gift was 250k. Since then I've gone on to start my own consulting business. I've helped folks land, you know, $3 million gifts. I am quite bullish about major gift fundraising, not the least of which Josh mentioned about threats to federal funding. The reason why I focus on major gifts is we know that when we look at the philanthropic pie, generally about 75% of all philanthropic dollars, private philanthropic dollars given in the US Are given by individuals. And because of shifts in wealth, we also know that 10% of the donors are responsible for 90% of overall monies given. So my thought is, hey, low hanging fruit tastes the sweetest. Why don't we go ahead and just focus on the 10% that are actually moving the needle. And, and I want to be clear here, I'm not saying focus on to the exclusion of the small dollar donors, the annual gift donors, the monthly donors and so forth. Love those people, need those people. Keep the lights on. What happens with major gifts is those are the transformative gifts that really allow you to take the organization to the next level. Those are the ones that fund the programs, the capital campaign, the endowments and so forth. So I think it's a both end. What I'd love to do is if you all have questions, let's throw it in the chat. This is just going to be super dynamic. I don't have an official presentation, but I have lots of opinions about lots of things.

[Josh]

We asked a bunch of questions come through and they came through before you signed on. So they may not be popping up in your Q and A window. Why don't we start with this question from James? James says I'm using a donor prospecting platform to find and identify new major donors. Once I get a list of prospective donors, what's the best way to initiate communication? Is it appropriate to just send out an appeal campaign or do I need to start with something else since they haven't heard anything from us before? Well, where would you start with that? Okay, new prospects.

[Rhea Wong]

All right, so here's the thing. I feel like at some point the tech companies are going to come after me. I have a love hate relationship with donor screen and donor well screens. Here's why. I think they can be an interesting data point. I think they can help you to prioritize the world. But here's my quibble and I'd love to talk to a tech person about this at some point. My quibble is the following. 1. I think that the data that they collect is not always accurate, especially when it comes to expensive areas like San Francisco, New York, even New Parts of New Mexico. Right. Because what they often do is they calculate your net worth based on, like, property values. So on paper, someone could look like a millionaire, but it may be just all tied up in their house. And frankly, James, I'm sure you're a wonderful person, but I don't see a lot of people lying, lining up to sell their house to give you a donation. Maybe they will, but that's not been my experience. So two. One, it's not always accurate. Two, and actually, let me talk about accuracy, especially in places like New York City where people buy co ops, not condos or townhouses. That is not public information. There's a lot of opacity there in terms of information. Second thing, if you're really wealthy and super duper wealthy, you are hiding your wealth. You have people who hide your wealth on purpose. Right. I also think that doesn't speak to accuracy. I'm sure if y'all did a search on Elon Musk right now, probably wouldn't come up with a lot.

[Josh]

And the opposite of that, if you did a search on me, it might say that I have. That was. That was always. My quibble is I would search my own name and be like, that is not accurate. There's no way I'm making a $5,000 gift to anybody right now. Not with two.

[Rhea Wong]

That is 100% right. I've done myself. And I'm like, I'm sorry, like a $50,000 gift is coming from exactly what. So I think. Third thing I think is these wealth streams aren't taking into account my engagement level. Right? So just because I have the money doesn't mean I'm going to give it to you. Just because you've identified in some way that I'm somehow in your pool. What are the other metrics I should be looking. I should be looking at? Are you getting our emails? Are you opening our emails? Are you coming to any events? Are you connected to someone? It doesn't tell you anything about my propensity to give based on my life experience. Right? So essentially you are just looking at these people as a number. The last thing I'll say about well screen is it's freaking creepy, y'all. If someone came to a meeting with me and, like, somehow, let's say, like their dossier fell out and they have this whole printout on my net worth and assets, I'd be like, feels a little bit creepy. Like, not a good way to start off a relationship with trust. Right. Instead, friend James, I would. And let me back up Here. The thing that I think is a problem in our sector is that we get really transactional with people. So in this world of, hey, I have this prospect list of people who look like they can give over a certain threshold. How can I just solicit them and do something to them to make them do something I want them to do? That's essentially what you're saying. Instead, how can we approach this from a perspective of how can I be of service? How can I approach this person to ask them what it is they might need, want, desire, what outcome they seek in the world, and how can I help them make that happen? Because when you're a nonprofit, you come with value and your donors come with value. And together you achieve something that is greater than either of you could achieve alone. And I would really caution you against looking at these people primarily through the lens of the money that they have, because frankly, you don't know what they have. The other thing is, Josh, to your point, like, sure, I might be able to make a 5,000-gift, but you don't know what's happening in my life. You don't know. Maybe little Bobby has a health issue right now. You don't know what's happening for people. That's the other thing. James, to answer your question, this is a very long winded way of answering your question. I would need more information about this. But instead of using the wealth screen as the first filter, I teach what is called a survey strategy, and this comes out of Greg Warner at MarketSmart, so I can't claim this as my own, but essentially you create a survey and in that survey, it's very intentionally designed in order to ascertain five pieces of information. One, do you have a reason for giving? Is our cause intersecting with your life in some way? Two, are you engaged with us? Do you get our emails? Do you come to events? Have you volunteered? Three, do you have capacity? If I indicate, for example, that I have a donor advice fund, I have a family foundation, I am interested in giving an assets, that's major gift territory. Four, is the timing right for you? Because no matter what you say, if the timing is not right, I'm not going to respond. And five, do I have permission to reach out to you? If these five things are a go, then we move into what we call a complete qualification. Because historically, the mistake that I think we all make as fundraisers is like I do a well screen on Josh and Sarah. I see that they have money, I add them to my caseload even though I have no indication if they actually want to be in my caseload. I never asked them permission, I didn't ask for their consent. I just decided based on their that they were in my caseload and then I'm just going to chase after them until they respond to me. So what this survey does is it allows people to take a small step forward to raise their hand and say yeah, I'm responsive. Like the responsiveness is an indication of engagement. Then based on that survey that opens the door for me if they've given me permission to have a further conversation. And in that further conversation we have a two step qualification process. Step one is the survey, it's preliminary qualification. Step two is complete qualification whereby I complete a plan for them where I understand what is their reason, what is it that they hope and dream of, how can I provide value for them and can I present to them a plan whereby we might start to get to know each other with the intention of eventually we will co create being the keyword here, a proposal for funding, but not until they're ready and not until they feel that we have provided sufficient value for them. And if they accept this, if and when they accept this plan, only then are they added into my caseload. So the caseload you have are people who actually have agreed to be on this journey versus the other way which is they're in your caseload because they have a lot of money.

[Josh]

Sure. I love that. I love the survey, I love the co create. There's a new model for major donor gift officer sort of management there that I think is truly wonderful and I think for a lot of us probably smarter way to do it right. Plug cancel nature out of it.

[Rhea Wong]

I feel like AFP is going to come after me at one point but I think the old model of I'm just going to add people to my caseload and just pepper them with emails and like phone calls for coffee, whatever is. I don't know, maybe that worked in a day when life was slower and we didn't all have cell phones and there were actually people on the other end who are like yes, I would love to have coffee because I have all this free time. Sure. I'm who those people are. They're not the people I've ever talked to you Right. And I think a lot of us have also had the experience of 5, 6 figure check coming out of nowhere and you're like this person was not on my radar. Like I didn't even know that they existed. The truth is people will self cultivate and self Solicit people will move themselves forward in the journey. The only thing we can do is to create the on ramps for when they are ready. Nothing I say is going to make someone do any. Like I can't even make my dog do anything. Like, good luck trying to make a wealthy donor do something.

[Josh]

And I think one of the nice things about at least James is that you have a built in roster of people who have already raised their hands and said that they want to be engaged. And so you now some of that initial sort of ice breaking has already been met. Here's your chance to go a little bit deeper with them. Have a coffee at your office and invite a handful of the attorneys who are volunteering with you to come by and hear a little bit about your work. Sarah's you do this all the time, I'm sure in the major gifts engineering where you're talking to people about vision meetings, you bring people in, you're having coffee, it's a lunch and learn or whatever it could be. This is your chance to either hand off the survey or have those conversations one on one with people. If it's not necessarily a sort of thing they're filling out, it could be right. But you're using those five points that Ria has talked about to, to get enrollment and to get engagement. Um, and you have that built in. There are some of us who don't have that sort of volunteer base by nature of being attorneys, are more likely to maybe have a little bit excess cash and are probably philanthropically inclined in their communities anyway if they're volunteering their time with you. So you have all the tools in place, all of the pieces in place to take this, the next step as Ria's talking about, rather than sending out a blast email or a blast appeal to really build some engagement and enrollment in your work.

[Rhea Wong]

And I just want to add to that because I do think that sometimes we think of something as high value and we think we're offering something to our donors and they think it is a favor that we're doing for us, right? So I think that we think, oh, this is a big favor that I'm taking them out to coffee. Meanwhile, they're thinking it's a big favor that I'm giving you time to go to coffee. Right? So I think we also have to be aware what you think of as valuable is not necessarily what our donor thinks of as valuable. And you won't know what they think of as valuable until you ask them. Like every question you have can be answered by talking to your donors. And I love that. Yeah. Last point I want to make before we jump to the other questions is I think the orientation that we have to have with fundraising is very much that of a guide, not the hero. So what I mean by that. Anyone. Josh or Sarah, Are either of you, like, Star wars fans?

[Josh]

I made a. I was. I did. I have a really great Star wars joke that I sold to Sarah in the green room, and she's not as big of a Star wars fan, so I don't think that it.

[Rhea Wong]

But I still thought it was funny. Okay, wait, I'm going to need. I'm going to need that joke. But anyway, so wait, let me ask you this, Josh. In Star wars, who is the big. Who's the hero of our story?

[Josh]

I would say Luke Skywalker.

[Rhea Wong]

Luke Skywalker. Okay, so Luke Skywalker was, like, living his life in Tatooine on his farm when he found out he was a Jedi, right? What did he do with this information?

[Josh]

He went out to save the world.

[Rhea Wong]

But did he do that at first?

[Josh]

Oh, no. At first, he was scared, right?

[Rhea Wong]

Oh, right.

[Josh]

Yeah, yeah.

[Rhea Wong]

And then the Empire blew up his farm, and it was like. This is like what we call an inciting incident. Like, okay, now I feel like I need to do something, right? Go back to when he became a Jedi. What was that journey like for him?

[Josh]

It was torturous, right? He was hanging out on Dagobah in a. In a swampy, jungly kind of place, and he had to go into the big, dark hole and face his most deepest fear of his father. Right. Darth Vader. It was not easy.

[Rhea Wong]

No. But did he have help along the way?

[Josh]

Oh, he had a lot of help. Master Yoda.

[Rhea Wong]

Obi Wan, you really are quite nerdy. And I love it. Very cool. So this is a historic. This is like a classic hero's journey, right? Joseph Campbell. Like, we see it over and over again. We see it in religion. We see it in mythology. We see it in Star Wars. We see it in Harry Potter. There is a hero. He refuses the call. He then has a mentoring guide to help him along this very difficult journey. He or she achieves a victory of some sort. Like, I conquered the Empire and killed my father. That's a spoiler alert for people. Sorry. And then I return to my regular world as a change person. Right? We see it in so many stories. This is also the story of your donor. Everyone sees themselves as the hero of their own story. I have a mission. I believe in saving whales, whatever it might be. As Fundraisers, our role is to be the guide to our hero's journey. So if you tell me, Josh and Sarah, like, your lifelong passion is to save the whales, like, how can I position myself as your guide to help you to achieve the victory that you seek in order for you to return back to your normal world with an enhanced identity? Right? Because we all believe that we're the kind of person, right? I'm the kind of person that lives in Wales. I am the kind of person that invests in education. Whatever it is we tell ourselves, we want to be able to lean into that and tell ourselves even more of that story. And so anybody who helps me to tell that story of who I believe I am will be the person that I trust to lead me forward. And the mistake that I see all the time with fundraisers is that they position the organization or they position their staff or they position the people that they're helping as the heroes of the story. And it's not wrong, but it doesn't allow me as a donor to step into a story that I want to be a part of. And this is perfect for the storytelling, nonprofit storytelling. Like, how can I tell a story that brings other people in?

[Josh]

That's what we're all here to do, right? And what you're describing is an easier way for us to remove the transactional nature of a lot of major gift of fundraising generally, but certainly major gift fundraising, and make it more about the relationship and the guide, but also a partner in this. Right? Because a lot of our donors want to do big things and they can't do them themselves. And for those of you who, like, started your organization, you have this gift of being both Luke Skywalker and Master Yoda at the same time, right? You solved the problem that existed in your community. You went out and started a nonprofit to solve that problem, and now you're helping people who also see that problem but didn't have the gumption to go out and start a nonprofit to solve that problem as well. That's a meta take on founders there. But founders have been on my mind a lot lately.

[Rhea Wong]

Be the guide, not the hero. Oh, I did want to say one more thing. I think in the world, we're told, build relationships. Sometimes building relationships means that you're going out to coffee with, I'm going to pick on them for, like, little old ladies who like just really to hang out with you, right? And so you're not actually moving things forward in a strategic way. And so the. The process of prelim qualification and then complete Qualification means that you have a roadmap forward of, like, why you're spending time. Because at some point and this happened to me, I got friend zone. They were like, oh, Rhea just likes to hang out with me. And I'm like, now they think we're friends. And like, now it's awkward. And so by creating the complete qualification plan, you're very transparent about what is happening. And it's not like you can't be friends, but you're spending time with a purpose. In order to be the guide, your hero has to accept you as a guide. That's the other thing. Like when we don't ask consent, when we don't ask for them to accept the plan and they intentionally opt in for the plan, then we don't know what we're doing. Right. They must accept and trust you as a guide. Okay.

[Josh]

All right. We have more questions that have come in. Sarah, where do you want to go? Is there one over in chat or do you want to hop to the Q and A? Where do you think we should go next? I'm interested to hear your thoughts on this from Diana. What do you see as the best.

[Rhea Wong]

Strategy to increase visibility of your work at a time when donor advised funds or DAFs are increasingly popular for individuals?

[Josh]

Great.

[Rhea Wong]

I love this question so much. Okay. And actually, if you all stick with me till the end, I have a present for you all. So stick with me to the end if you can. How do you turn that around in a little old lady scenario? Okay, Jen, I'm going to pin your question. I'm going to answer this question, then get pin the little old lady question. I love the old ladies, by the way. Just like for the record, I hope to be one in one. Okay. All right. I'm going to talk about scaling for a second. So when we think about scaling either a nonprofit or even a business, there are really four points of constriction. Number one of constriction is traffic. Are there literally enough people with eyeballs on you? Point number two, conversion. Are you converting enough of those eyeballs into donors? Point number three, donor lifetime value. How much are you making on average from each of those donors? There are only kind of three ways that you can increase donor lifetime value. You can either hold onto them longer, you can ask bigger, or you can ask more frequently. Preferably all three things. And let me talk about donor lifetime value for a second. If you know your donor lifetime value, you then know how much you can spend on donor acquisition and donor retention, right? So, for example, if we Know that our average donor lifetime value is let's say $1,500. But we're out here spending like $2,000 on donor acquisition, like via events, marketing campaigns, I don't know, like email campaigns, et cetera, et cetera. Guess what? You're not going to be in business very long, right? You have to spend less on acquisition and retention than your donor lifetime value. And then the fourth point is retention. Are you holding onto these people? And historically as a sector, we're not very good at retention. And so what that means is you spend all this time and energy marketing and acquiring donors and then you're just losing them out the back. We have a leaky bucket problem. So if you're retaining at anything less than 50%, fix your leaky bucket problem first. Okay, so to the question about marketing. So much to say about this. When we think about nonprofits, we think about other nonprofits as being our competition. They're not our competition people. Our competition are DAFs, banks who have DAFs and family foundations. The reason being is that if you're a wealthy person, you're like, I know I have to park this money, I'm going to get my tax benefits, whatever. But instead of putting that money to work directly with a nonprofit, I'm just going to park it at this bank because it's less of a hassle. And like the minute I pack it at bank, I'm not going to be like sent a bajillion emails for solicitation. So what that means is DAFs are on purpose set up to be opaque. Like you're on purpose not supposed to know who owns Adapt. Like that's a feature, not a bug. What that then means is that it is now on us to market widely because unfortunately at this point there's no public information to figure out that. So I don't know who I'm talking to. I don't know what they like. I have to have a broad based marketing plan. Now let me talk about marketing for a second. Who all here has this social media presence?

[Josh]

Sarah raised her hand.

[Rhea Wong]

Okay, Amy, I'm going to get to your question about being cranky and the hero story. Small social presence. Okay, how many of you are using your social media presence to drive to your email list? No shame, no shade.

[Josh]

Probably not as many as should.

[Rhea Wong]

As they should. Yeah. And Megan. Okay, let me talk about social media. I didn't understand this when I was an ed and then I understood it later as an entrepreneur. The point of social media is not the likes. It's not vanity metrics. It's not. Look how cute I am. The point of social media is to build a pool of people that you can then siphon off into your email list because the email list is the conversion mechanism. So I don't have the stats off the top of my head. But you raise a lot more money on email than you do on social. And by the way, Zuck owns all of your social followers. So if you have a million followers on Instagram, good for you. But the algorithm can decide to shut you down and there is your entire base gone. So the asset is the email list. The email list is what you own. And so what you all need to be thinking about is how do I create a call to action or some off platform activity. Take this audience that I've built on social onto my email list. Like all roads lead to the email list. The email list is where you then nurture the relationship. And then once they're sufficiently nurtured and they feel good about you and they understand what you do and that is when you can ask for the solicitation and conversion, the conversion action. Now let's go back to the question about marketing. Chances are, I'm going to guess most of you out here are not marketing enough. And by marketing enough out your emails to your audience at least once a week, posting on social a couple times a week, thinking about video as your next realm. Right now I have a podcast, I have a newsletter, I have a book. I'm stepping into video. I don't love video. Watching myself on video makes me want to cringe. But whatever, we're get over that. But when we look at the statistics for the fastest growing mediums, it's all video. And by the way, all of us are sitting here with like essentially a media studio in our pockets. If you have an iPhone or one of the fancy. I forgot what the question was.

[Josh]

Marketing to dafs. How you get more people's attention if all they have are dafs. So you're not, they're not clicking a button in an email, right? They have to then go to their daft to send you the check as opposed to that emotional accident people have when they click the donate button in an email.

[Rhea Wong]

So here's the other thing. If you go to MarketSmart, I'm not affiliated with MarketSmart, but just FYI, they have a DAF widget. So if you put on your website like we accept DAF money, guess what? People with DAS may think about doing that. The other thing that I might mention and it's a strategy I'm still thinking about is how are you marketing not to DAFs because you can't market to DAFs because you don't know who it is. But how are you marketing to people who manage devs? So people who are like financial advisors, people who are philanthropic advisors, people who are program officers at community funds, develop a relationship with them because often they're asked by their clients, who should I donate to? Right. If you're top of mind for them, they'll be like, oh you know what this or just contact me like this might be of interest to you.

[Josh]

We had Jesse Bustamante on Tactical Thursdays. I think Sarah, that was like at the end of last year, maybe before or after the conference, I forget when it was. And she talked about community foundations and certainly for those of you who are in a community that have a robust community foundation presence, treating them as if, which is essentially what they are and getting to know the program officers there. Jesse talked a lot about how to do that, how to get on their radar. You can just run that playbook with your local Charles Schwab or Fidelity office. Right. Most small town America have a Fidelity office right there and folks go in there and create their dapps or work with those agents there to do that. Getting on their radar. And I love Ria, what you said about adding the widget and there's a bunch of different options out there as well. I think free will has one. We talked about this a week or so ago. But getting something and making it easy, removing those friction points. Right. If you have a well run robust marketing campaign, if you have a good email list, if you're doing all the things you need to do, even if you're not, even if you don't have all those things, having an opportunity for people to on your website as easily as they can connect their desire to give with their ability to give through their DAP is key.

[Rhea Wong]

Yeah, Megan, I think that's your name. The question is how do we use social media to help our email list? I think it's simple but not easy. So simple in the sense of the idea is that you post compelling content and then the call to action is sign up for our email list or go to our website and sign up for a resource. Right. So what you want to think about and you can use AI to do this, what you want to think about is how do I create content that is going to make people stop and click. And content can often be like I, it sounds like maybe Megan has some good content but like, photos do really well, video does well. Some observation, like developing a strong brand voice is really key. Actually, one fun thing. Do you guys know beyond meat? The meat.

[Josh]

Oh yeah.

[Rhea Wong]

So someone just alerted me to this. Check them out on threads. Hilarious. Fun. But I feel like we have to not be afraid to lean into a unique brand voice, right? And so maybe your brand is funny, maybe it's insightful, maybe it's inspiring. Lean hard into the brand voice. I also there's a woman named Sally Hogshead. H O G S H E A D Again, I have no financial mistake in any of this, but she wrote a book called how to fascinate and there's a test you can take for 70 bucks. I should probably start getting commission on this. But it helps you to identify your brand avatar, then help you with your brand. So my brand avatar, just to give up the whole story here is the maestro. The maestro is confident, decisive, action oriented. It's no mistake that if you look at all of my social content, it feels like that it's do this, don't do that. I'm like gonna say something somewhat controversial, but I'm gonna feel very confident about it. That's not everyone's brand. Lean hard into your brand and your avatar. But we all have a way that we fascinate. Where am I going with this brand avatar? Howtofascinate. Com. How to you post on social. You're posting on a regular basis. You're like, I would love to see a couple times a week. And then you're driving to your email like, hey, want more content like this? Hey, want to know about any upcoming events? Hey, like what are 10 point plan for gardening in the spring? Click our link. When you click the link, people sign up on the back end. You have an email welcome sequence, right? So it's a three. Let's say it's a three email sequence where first email is like, hey, welcome, we're so glad to have you. Maybe that's when you deliver the product, if it's something that they signed up for. Hey, here's the 10 tips for gardening in the spring. Then you send another email a couple days later. Hey, just want to let you know, so happy you're here. Thought we'd share this inspirational story with you. Then a week later, maybe you send another one, right? So you're warming it up. And within that free email sequence, you're also asking for proof of life. Hey, can you just reply back and let us know what's your favorite flower in this? I don't know what I'm making stuff up. What's your favorite vegetable to grow? Right? What that does is it tells the algorithm on the back end that you're not spam. And so it improves deliverability. And what I also want y'all to be doing with your email list, first of all, I think you should scrub it. So if you haven't done an email clean sequence in a while, do that. Secondly, with your emails, we look at open rates, we look at click through rates. But the most dependable way to ascertain whether or not you have an engaged list is ask a question. If they respond you like, that's proof of life. I know we're not talking about email marketing per se, but that is especially.

[Josh]

Important with major donors. And there's a question from the Fled away in my chat. Most of this person's major donors have unsubscribed from their stuff, right? How do you then engage with them? Number one, I would say prevent them from unsubscribing by having them engage with your content right? Share segment your list. So you're just sending them important information. I really love Ria's point about encouraging folks to respond. Not only does that teach the algorithm that your stuff should go in the primary tab rather than the promotions or social tab of Gmail or whatever, even Apple is doing that now with the new iOS, but it gets people to then be thinking about your organization and wanting to respond and knowing that person who's sending the email is actually reading replies. Such a great point. And if you do have a bunch of major donors who are unsubscribed, that's fine. Send a personal email. You should be sending personal emails to as many of your major donors as you possibly can. You should be touching, you should be communicating with your major donors and however many you can actually handle. Maybe it's 10 most of us aren't going to be able to have 130 or 120 major donors under management at a given time because we have other parts of our job, our organization that we run, especially EDs and development directors. But the the 1015 that you can try and engage with them at least once a month. Send them a personal email, send them a text message if they've been qualified or I forget your phraseology there, Rhea, but if they've opted into a true relationship with you, then you could be texting them, you could be sending them emails. You can forward your blast emails, your marketing emails to them and say hey, I saw that we sent this to Our list. I wanted to make sure you saw it because it's really important. This inspirational story is so key. Or there's this really important need that exists right now in our community. I know normally you make your gifts at the end of the year, but if there's something you can do right now, as we're coming through this uncertain time, please click the button below to make a gift.

[Rhea Wong]

Josh. The other thing I will say to the question of people who opted out of her email list. If your major donors have opted out of your email list, it's telling you something that your emails are not that high value. Sorry, it's true. But for example, I receive a bajillion emails from Gap Doc. Some. Most of them are crappy, but I stay on the list because I know one of these days a good coupon is going to come through, right? That is the value that they deliver. If people are opting out of your list or not opening your emails or not clicking through, your emails probably suck. A couple of things that you should consider. There's an email, there's a website called really Good E. Com. Check that out. There's also a book I'm obsessed with right now. It's called really Good Copy. It's about copywriting. Like everyone should know how to copyright. Or if you don't find someone or I also in the chat, put a link to my free ChatGPT course. It's 45 minutes of how I'm using ChatGPT. So anyway, to go back to the question because I. I know this is like the long way around. If your major donors are not on your email, there are other ways to contact them. Or here's the other thing, maybe there isn't. And if there isn't, that's also telling you something too, right? I think sometimes we spend so much time wishing for something to happen that it just ain't going to happen anymore. Guess what? There are these things called mailing addresses. You could send the survey via snail mail with a nice little note. Hey, we're really trying to connect with our donors. Like if this would be hugely valuable for us to know what is interesting to you. If you could take a couple minutes to fill it out. I've included an envelope with a stamp on it for your ease. That's great. Maybe there's a phone call, maybe there's a test. There are ways to get in touch with people and I love that when like people zig. Use that, right? If everyone's out here sending email, send hard copy snail mail All I get in the mail these days are bills and junk mail anyway. I'd love something that's not garbage.

[Josh]

Yeah, and I think too, Ray, of one of the. You said we sit around waiting for something to magically happen. I feel like email has. Has become the default way we communicate with all of our donors in the same way checkmail became the way we communicated with all, all of our donors years ago. And our major donors. There are major donors for a reason. They're going to save our tucuses in times of crisis and we need to not treat them like every donor. Need to spend more time with them. And as you said, zagging when other people are. Are zigging when other factors. I lost that.

[Rhea Wong]

Sorry.

[Josh]

But, but definitely be thinking about ways to do more one on one personal. This is the time to do it as we.

[Rhea Wong]

Yeah, I use this example all the time. There's this fancy restaurant here in New York called Eleven Madison Park. And if you all haven't read Unreasonable Hospitality, you absolutely everyone needs to read Unreasonable Hospitality by Bulgadara. Again, I have no stake in this other than I just think it's good information. But anyway, if anyone's a fan of the Bear, you'll love it. Thank you. Anyway, I went to eleven Madison park and it was my birthday. My husband took me out for a nice dinner and I remember this on the menu they had printed Happy Birthday Ria. And then the menu and I'm sure it was a delightful dinner. I don't remember what we ate, but I remembered this one little detail. Like it didn't cost them anything, but it was like a nice touch. Oh. They took the time to print a special menu with like Happy Birthday across the top. And I just think it's these little thoughtful touches that make people feel special. And I think there's nothing wrong with making people feel special a hundred percent.

[Josh]

Especially again, especially in times of uncertainty. People will remember that before they remember their last gift or what it is your organization does. They'll remember the special touches. Rhea, we have to have you back because this was an awesome conversation. So many people were like, this is so great. I love this. So we'll make sure we have you. We have you back very soon. Folks, let's hear it for Ria.

[Rhea Wong]

Thank you so much.

[Josh]

Again, I'll have links to all those in the show notes underneath. Rhea, thank you so much for this.

[Rhea Wong]

This is fantastic. Thank you so much, everyone. Take care. Hey, fundraisers. Looking to nail those big fundraising asks, check out my big ask gift [e-mail] bag. Say goodbye to uncertainty and hello to confidence with my program. Get expert strategies and personalized support to secure those game changing donations. Don't let fear hold you back. Join me and take your fundraising to new heights. We're enrolling now at riawong.com bag. That's riawong.com bag. So if you like big asks and you cannot lie, I'll see you in the program.