Nonprofit Lowdown Episode #332: The State of Nonprofit Staffing with Evan Wildstein and Michelle Flores Wren

Release Date: April 7, 2025

Introduction

In Episode #332 of Nonprofit Lowdown, host Rhea Wong delves into the pressing issue of staffing challenges within the nonprofit sector. Joining her are two experts, Evan Wildstein and Michelle Flores Wren, who bring insightful perspectives based on their annual Social Impact Staff Retention Reports. This episode sheds light on the alarming trends in staff retention, explores the underlying causes, and offers strategic solutions to help nonprofits navigate this crisis.

1. Overview of the 2025 Social Impact Staff Retention Report

Michelle Flores Wren and Evan Wildstein introduced the Social Impact Staff Retention Report, an annual survey examining nonprofit staffing trends across the United States. The 2025 report, based on 2024 data, reveals concerning trends in staff retention within the sector.

Key Findings:

• High Churn Rate: Approximately 70% of nonprofit employees are considering or actively seeking new job opportunities this year (04:42).
• Consistent Trends: This figure aligns closely with the previous year's data, indicating a persistent issue rather than a temporary spike.
• Longitudinal Insight: As the report progresses into its third year, the duo aims to track long-term trends, providing deeper insights into the evolving landscape of nonprofit staffing.

2. High Churn Rates in Nonprofits vs. Other Industries

The churn rate in the nonprofit sector substantially exceeds industry averages. While general industries report departure rates in the high 40s to low 50s percentage-wise, nonprofits are witnessing 70% turnover, which is approximately 20 percentage points higher.

Michelle emphasizes that even a 50% churn rate would be alarming, but the current figure underscores a systemic problem within nonprofits (05:17).

3. Main Reasons for Staff Turnover

The report identifies three primary reasons why nonprofit employees are seeking new opportunities:

1. Too Much Responsibility, Not Enough Support (01:54)

   • Evan Wildstein highlights that excessive workloads without adequate support remain the top reason for staff departures, a consistent finding over the years.

2. Lack of Clear Pathways to Growth (03:10)

   • Employees feel stagnant due to unclear career advancement opportunities. Without transparent conversations about growth, staff members feel undervalued and see limited future within their organizations.

3. Insufficient Leadership Support (04:30)

   • Poor management and lack of supportive leadership contribute significantly to employee dissatisfaction and turnover.

Notable Quote:

“The number one reason people are looking to leave is too much responsibility, not enough support.” – Michelle Flores Wren (03:10)

4. Strategies to Improve Retention

To combat high turnover rates, Michelle and Evan propose several actionable strategies:

a. Organizational Slack (09:13)

• Evan Wildstein introduces the concept of organizational slack, which involves planning for 80-85% capacity rather than maximizing resource utilization. This buffer allows organizations to handle unexpected challenges without overburdening staff.

b. Chopping Block Exercise (10:30)

• Evaluating existing programs to determine their current impact and relevance. Organizations should be willing to discontinue initiatives that no longer serve their mission effectively.

c. Job Description Audits (26:02)

• Regularly updating job descriptions to reflect current roles and responsibilities, ensuring clarity and reducing ambiguity for employees.

d. Flexibility in Work Roles (24:41)

• Offering flexible work arrangements, such as hybrid or remote options, to accommodate employees' personal lives and reduce burnout.

Notable Quote:

“Have those seven to nine key areas that you expect that person to come into. ... There should be room for employees to take on other duties that align with their interests.” – Michelle Flores Wren (26:02)

5. Role of AI in Nonprofit Operations

The discussion transitions to the impact of Artificial Intelligence (AI) on nonprofit efficiency and staff workload.

• Evan Wildstein and Michelle acknowledge AI's potential to alleviate "stupid work" by automating repetitive tasks, thereby allowing staff to focus on more meaningful activities.
• They caution against adopting AI solutions solely based on technological advancements without aligning them with the organization’s mission and operational goals.
• Emphasis is placed on maintaining a human-centric approach, ensuring that AI tools support rather than replace the deeply human aspects of nonprofit work.

Notable Quote:

“AI should always be kept human. We need more humans to work in deeply human areas and let AI handle the rote tasks.” – Evan Wildstein (15:45)

6. Leadership Tips for Retention

Effective leadership plays a crucial role in staff retention. The experts offer several recommendations for nonprofit leaders:

a. Lead by Example (18:51)

• Demonstrate work-life balance by setting boundaries, such as not responding to emails outside of work hours. This behavior encourages staff to adopt similar practices, reducing burnout.

b. Foster a Supportive Environment (22:12)

• Leaders should regularly assess and challenge their own practices to ensure they are not contributing to negative work conditions. This introspection helps create a healthier workplace culture.

c. Encourage Meaningful Work (26:02)

• By allowing employees to take on projects that align with their passions and the organization's mission, leaders can increase job satisfaction and reduce turnover.

Notable Quote:

“We have to always interrogate our own personal power in these situations... leaders need to model the behaviors they want to see.” – Evan Wildstein (22:12)

7. Conclusion: Accessing the Report and Further Resources

Michelle Flores Wren directs listeners to access the full report and additional resources at nonprofiteers.com. The website hosts the 2025 infographic and the forthcoming comprehensive report, which includes personal stories, managerial insights, and practical strategies for improving staff retention.

Rhea Wong encourages listeners to leverage these findings to initiate conversations within their organizations, aiming to create sustainable and supportive work environments.

Notable Quote:

“We don't just want to leave you with depressing data, although good data is never untimely.” – Michelle Flores Wren (31:24)

Final Thoughts

This episode of Nonprofit Lowdown underscores a critical challenge facing the nonprofit sector: high staff turnover. By leveraging data-driven insights and implementing strategic leadership practices, organizations can work towards creating environments that not only retain talent but also empower employees to thrive and effectively contribute to their missions.

For more detailed information, including access to the full Social Impact Staff Retention Report, visit nonprofiteers.com and connect with Evan Wildstein and Michelle Flores Wren on LinkedIn.

This summary is based on the transcript provided and reflects the key discussions and insights shared during the podcast episode.