Rhea Wong (5:22)

I appreciate that so much, Julian. And truth be told, I was actually a little intimidated because I know that you and this person I were talking about both had such deep experience. I was like, what do I know? And it's almost like one of these things where you get into it. You're like, oh, okay, I do. You know what I'm talking about? But I think we all have a little bit of that. Wait, do I know anything? And I have such respect for you and the work you've done with folks in Boston and education. So thank you for that. Let's jump into this because I know folks are chomping at the bit. To say we've been whiplashed by the last couple of months is certainly an understatement. And particularly for those of us who are in equity work or use words like diversity or underserved populations, have really felt a lot of pressure. I know people are talking to their legal counsel about what they need to represent on the websites, et cetera. Actually, maybe a better place to start is before we get into all these kind of bigger existential questions, what is it that Embrace Boston does?

Yuli Cha (6:21)

So I am feeling like I am like the new kid on the block because I like, came from education and lots of other kind of educational, nonprofit things in Boston. And it's just been such a privilege and honor to join the team earlier this year. And I've known like some of the folks here for a while as we've moved across the different spaces. But everyone does tend to associate Embrace Boston, which is only only a year old or like a baby, like, still clearly startup mode. But before officially Getting there on 501C3, Embrace is known for having put up the kind of hug the Embrace monument that's in the Boston Common, which it had been a very long time since anything had been erected in what I think could be arguably viewed as a historically wide space. And it was as so Paul English, the founder, had visited San Francisco and they had a monument in honor of Dr. King. And he was wondering. He didn't remember a whole lot that the good Reverend had done out in San Francisco, but he knows that he had actually there's a lot of his story that's in Boston and wanting to kind of commemorate, honor that and help the City live. Live up to all the things that Dr. King had accomplished. And some of that his origin story was really, as we know, the people in her life, so important. And so it's where he had met his partner, Coretta Scott. And so they both went to school there. It was fundamental. She went to New England Conservatory. He went to BU, got his PhD in theology. There was so much formative work that was done for them as individuals, and they fell in love. And so as the kind of community process proceeded in terms of getting hundreds of points of view and inputs on how to do this, it became clear that I think this happened in the artist selection with Hank Willis Thomas and their partnership with Mass Design is that it became clear that it needs to be something that was different than what has been historically memorialized in our country as, like, the white supremacist male figure up on a horse, up on a pedestal, often symbolizing war or some kind of conquest. And as an aside, with, like, Women's History Month in our rearview mirror, it is easier to find an image of a mermaid than of a woman that has been memorialized in our country. And looking at what one could see as like kind of a symbolic arms race of monuments, really wanting one to be more than that almost breakthrough and create its own class category. And the photo that Hank Willis had selected was one where Martin Luther King was receiving the Nobel Peace Prize and Scott is holding him up. Image seems to be so much more on point in terms of what represented not just Boston's history, but also our present and future, really being a belief, a set of beliefs or values, and people in motion and constant. As we are realizing today, democracy is a constant battle and struggle. It is fragile, and it's up to all of us. And so embrace Boston. Realizing that through that physical process, really galvanizing this clarity and this belief that it needs to be all about the action. And so there was a lot of call to do more and to generate whole other bodies of work around what was the storytelling mechanism around the construction and whose story is told, who says, who reflects, and who is of value, and converting that into what is now the mission, which is to dismantle structural racism. Really looking at the undergirding that our country has, that unique history with enslavement. So dismantling the structural racism in our country and using the tools of arts and culture and research and policy, and as we've seen, that has been really effective as we see the culture war's impact on everything from voter turnout to people's views and perceptions.

Rhea Wong (10:22)

Yeah. Okay. There's so much to unpack here. And for those of you who are unfamiliar with this monument, definitely take a look on it. Take a look at it. It's powerful, it's very unique, and certainly a very important piece. I'm curious, though, since Embrace Boston did the monument, essentially they raised money as a capital campaign. Since that time, the mission of Embrace Boston has morphed a bit, morphed into broader questions of equity and democracy and inclusion. And I'm just curious, given the current political environment, how is Embrace Boston navigating these challenges while at the same time staying true to the mission?

Yuli Cha (11:11)

It's almost. It is the right time for an organization like Embrace, and we have a lot of siblings and cousin organizations that are right in the thick of it. And so I feel like we were made for this time in our country's life. And I think everyone has asked the question, especially everything from HR 9495 came out and a bunch of the other executive orders and the frontal kind of assaults on rights, human and civil rights. And we asked ourselves the same questions, which is, how much do we play defense versus offense? And how much do we protect our employees, our board, our community, those that are reliant on the things that we have worked to put up in our young life as an organization? And I think it was an unequivocal, like, just clear we're committed to this work. And there's also just the reality, which is there's no really place to hide for us all the words in the ban list, like they're just on every document, every website, everything. And I think, also I think if looking to our leaders in our state and city, from Congresswoman Presley to Senator Markey, our own Mayor Wu, I think the worst things that we can do is the anticipatory obedience and giving up and buying into the falsehood that somehow it's too late or that what we might do won't make a difference. And I think history definitely repeats itself, and they have lots of lessons for us to draw from. And if we look at Germany's history that has transpired and looking at the kind of academics and historians that are making those connections for us, I think we still have power in numbers. And I think the voice of if we believe in a pluralistic democracy, then we're going to have to lean on those beliefs. And as I checked, we still have First Amendment, as much as every day there is an attempt to make you think otherwise. And so I think we're leaning even Harder into kind of the underpinnings of why we decided to honor Dr. King. And it wasn't just because of the man, but because of. And Coretta Scott. It was because of what they represented. It's always personal, I think, and a lot of the work that many of our schools and nonprofits commit to and they're supporting donors, their boards, their employees. It's our life. Their time is precious resource. We will never get back. You can always get another dollar, as much as that feels hard, but we will never get back the time. And certainly we each want to look our kids in the face and say that we are going to be part of history 10, 15, 20 years from now. It's like we look back at 1965 and the black and white photos and the imagery, that's us and no risk, no reward. But I think also no fight, no democracy. So I think that's. There's no. There's always a choice, but for us, it feels like that is the only choice if this is what we want to do.

Rhea Wong (14:05)

Yeah. I think that is a powerful statement. And I will say, I'm sure I have folks out here who are saying, Julie, that's easy for you to say in Boston, in Massachusetts, which feels like a privileged and protected place, but I also think we have to do things when they are hard. I think back to mlk, it was not easy for him to stand up. And so I think the idea of not complying in advance is a really powerful one.

Yuli Cha (14:39)

I think also folks like to recall the warm fuzzy sides of many of the quotes and the talks that Dr. King gave and Coretta Scott. But there is equally some pretty convicting, calling to action and calling out. And I think even for Boston, that we have to set the standard. We have to raise the bar because of some of the resources, supports that we have. And at the same time, I do, I marvel at what folks are doing across the country. So I think wherever you find a story and example, I think everything that we can do, especially with social media at our fingertips, to just do our own flood the zone. And it's definitely much more in the hands of the individual now than ever, given the technology and the way our kind of social spaces is set up.

Rhea Wong (15:27)

Yeah, absolutely. Last thought on that. I have a friend named Jess who says we have to be loud. Right. And it. And it's not just about calling your own representatives, your own congresspeople, your own senators. Call everyone else's.

Yuli Cha (15:41)

Right.

Rhea Wong (15:41)

Right. Because there's no law that says you can't call People who are not in your state. So I think we absolutely need to get loud. Let me switch over a little bit because I think the concept, one of the things we talked about when we were preparing for this podcast is the power of belonging and space. And so I think one of the things that's very powerful about the monument is it clearly demonstrates to people a space and shows value, shows what we value, shows this is what we care about. And so I wonder if you could talk a little bit about how you all are thinking about the ideas of equity and representation and democracy that is communicated in implicit ways around space and claiming space for people.

Yuli Cha (16:32)

Yes, 100%. So I think this is something that we experience everywhere, but we might not realize it like it's like in the ether. And I think that some of embraces special sauce is to find the intersection of the research and the theory and map that to our lived experience and be able to name things so that folks see the meaning. And also there is an intentionality within repeating that. So earlier I mentioned like we can go call representatives. One thing that I have heard has been helpful and that they've been able to use is for us to be able to provide our electeds and those in other kind of explicit positions of power with the data. So whether you are call number 722, it allows them to speak to what the masses are saying and also for us to give them what it means when they are supporting things like funding our investments in art and public space where it's public park or public swimming pool of yesteryear. These seem like niceties. Does this really have an impact on democracy? And so we're lucky to be in company with other research organizations, certainly larger universities. This is why universities and public funding is so important who study that. And so the sociology around what happens when minoritized groups are taking up space where historically they have not. And I think the example we had talked about before was just in the what we call like ephemeral activations or monuments. So while you have physical space and certainly that's a good reference point, so we can all I think recall some kind of statue of again the like general on the horse on top of a pedestal. And it's meant to look old, even though they were largely built in reaction to reconstruction. So they're all like 1910, 1930, like hundreds of monuments were put up. And so if you were to do like a heat map of the US the whole thing lights up in the south. There's just like hundreds and hundreds. I think The National Monument Audit did a study a couple years back and there were like 2,000, I think. And you can correspond it to then local legislation. So whether it's types of reproductive rights or voting rights or gerrymandering. So you can map it to policy. Because there is absolutely multiple kinds of research that points to the evidence is that the art and the public. Your built environment absolutely affects your mindset, your self worth. And so for you, imagine I'm a Korean kid. I was at one point, some people say I'm still a kid, but I would if I was walking around in a town where on every street not only are there Confederate monuments, but there's also. The school is named after Robert E. Lee. And there's. So if. And if I did this with you. But there is national Monument on it has a. What we call the bingo board of the top 50 memorialized individuals in US history. If you guess like the top three.

Rhea Wong (19:40)

Top three. I'm gonna go George Washington. I don't know, maybe Robert E. Lee and Abraham Lincoln.

Yuli Cha (19:48)

Yes. Okay, so you had the class and also Martin Luther King. Good. But if you go down and that there's actually something that I can put in your show notes. But it's fascinating. And so if you go down, you see all of the. I think it's. You see everyone from Robert E. Lee and various Confederate generals, but you'll also see two rows below, I think Harriet Tubman, which is like one of the three women on the grid, is the founder of the kkk. And so think about your built environment sending you these analog cookies. They are sending you a message of this is what we value as a society and especially as a child growing up. And absolutely. The power of space, it is real, it can be measured. And therefore there is a close tie to belonging. And so the physical space. Yes. And then there's also who takes up the space. And so one thing that we recently had studied, we had conducted at a couple of our festivals here in Boston, an ethnography report. And so interviewing attendees at these festivals and also observations. And it was powerful. So you look at. This is the first year that we had put up a Latino arts music festival out in The Boston Common. 5,000 people free. Mayor Wu honored it honored our longtime radio personality here, Jose Maso. 50 plus years, I think of broadcasting. And then we had like world class music, salsa dancing, they have food trucks. And because it's in the Boston Common and it's free, lots of. There's just folks passerby. I brought my kids, my family, and my neighbor. And so there's just this multicultural mix. But then you start hearing folks who came to the festival in the Common from let's say other parts of Boston and just reading, you know, their quotes and was just eye opening. Everything from seeing the music that my child and my family listens to in our house and seeing it on this grand stage and seeing all these folks just celebrating it and dancing to it and also trying to learn like not everyone knew how to merengue and this like vulnerability. And so the centering and spotlighting a culture that sometimes has not been part of our historic supremacist structure and filling that space. So A, who was on stage and B, who is filling the space. So it probably was not probably reflective of the typical demographic that you see walking through the Common on a Sunday morning. But that has power and not only empowers those who have been traditionally or historically minoritized, but it also actually has lasting effect. And that's the piece that's very encouraging is one folks have that lived experience and it gives them language, it gives them a counter narrative take with them. And it has some protective factors. But also we are going to now and our supporters have been a big part of this is that they have been so generous in sponsoring. They see the vision and for some of them they also are very intrigued by the research. And so now we have committed to having this event every fall. And so it kicks off part of the kickoff to Latino Heritage Month. And just in partnership with the city, we want to grow the number of partners and coalition with dozens of partners through the city. Folks now will rely on it, they'll look forward to it. And so this is the kind of thing that starts to shape our, our power dynamics and our sense of self. And so equally to, for example, what everyone knows what to do on July 4th, you go get your girl stuff, you have your fireworks. A lot of the commercializing, but still you have these traditions like Valentine's Day. You get the chocolate and the candies and the teddy bear. Maybe I never had those things, but this is what I see in cvs. And so for now, September folks, we hope this is the kind of intentional design that this grows in prominence. And not only it's a tourist attraction, but it's also a cultural attraction. It says we belong here. And look at the 5,000 plus who are showing up to celebrate and support. They might not all get every nuance of the cultural significance and the historical kind of counter narrative, but it starts to bring everyone along on the path and so the physical taking up of space and time and also the physical monuments are all part of how we shape and reshape our norms that then do lead to changes in behavior and attitude. Folks ask, how did we get here? How do we have such either low or high voter turnout? How did this demographic vote against their interests? Culture war is probably the first battlefront for us. And so I'm so glad you asked this question because it's like, what can one do? Everyone can show up for communities that you feel like that is representative of the value that we want, even though it might not be your ethnic or cultural background that makes a difference.

Rhea Wong (24:49)

Yeah. It's so interesting that you say that, because I think fundamentally, as human beings, we are always asking, do I belong here or do I not belong here? If I'm getting signifiers either through speech, through, through what I'm here, what do I see? If it tells me either explicitly or implicitly that I don't belong here, then I will go find where I belong. And so when we think about low voter turnout, when we think about people voting against their interests, I think we also have to ask, how have we designed spaces and narratives around who belongs and who doesn't belong? And ultimately, I feel like this is the core of the, of the MAGA movement and particularly as it appeals to young men. I think young men have been very disenfranchised and very much told that they don't belong in mainstream, but they don't belong to a certain part of society or they don't belong to what is seen as the intellectual elite. And therefore, if I don't belong here, then I will go find someplace that I do belong. Really powerful. On that note, let's talk about young people and democracy, because I think the young people are going to need to save us. And so I want you to talk a little bit about what you all are doing in terms of, I think we said, making democracy cool again. But more specifically, how do we engage young people around exploring civic participation and justice and caring about a world where they are going to inherit?

Yuli Cha (26:21)

It's funny because I always thought we were the young people, but apparently I.

Rhea Wong (26:25)

Know at some point I became the old person in the room, which is weird because my whole career I was the young one. And then I don't know when it tipped at some point in my 30s, but anyway, I was like, oh, I.

Yuli Cha (26:35)

Guess you tried and didn't fail. Maybe, but yes. Anywho, it's funny because I also just sent my first, my oldest kiddo to college. So she's in her first year and she's taking a class called like, Democracy and Dictatorship. It's very funny and funny, not haha grim. She has some remote interest in law. And so I'd asked her, I was like, oh, if you have any interest in illegal part of the world, y'all, to just go do it. Because they think a lot of this battle is going to be fought in the court. So you got a lawyer up and going on and on. And she said, this is like, whoa, Nelly. A lot of pressure. And I do think that tiger mom.

Rhea Wong (27:14)

Energy there, it's like, you go save the world, go be a lawyer.

Yuli Cha (27:18)

You got to fight for us. Because honestly, I'm like, how many years does it take? By the time I was like, yeah, there's probably going to be a lot of stuff for you to do. I mean, she's also interested in the environment. And I was like, well, that's also on fire. So a lot of need for all of our young people to be like 1000% engaged. And I do think that there's a role for us, all of us right now to play in terms of paving the way, encouraging and activating our young people. Not that they don't have their own agency, but I think there is the asking of help that only the helpy can do. And so it's interesting. So as I've been doing this work, some of what we are trying to build is what we call, like, our narrative practice, because it cuts across everything that we do, whether it's like, folks come to our embrace honors. It looks like a gala, like a sneaker ball, a party, but really it is a sociological experiment and activation thinly disguised as a very beautiful party that lifts up black culture, music, food, and that community and thinking about the younger demographics. And so one thing that we've been looking at is often when it comes to activations or activism, it's going where the people are, right? So it's like authentic, like community building. And I was talking to a social media consultant a couple months ago when we were just on the heels of the barrage of executive orders and realizing, oh, this is what it's going to be. Orange Agent 2.0 is going to be this. And so what do we need to do to fight back and to have our own strategic offense? And so talking to the social media consultant who, the way that they were describing the sort of competencies and the types of interventions, it sounded a lot like they described it this way as, well, a lot like community organizing. But your space is digital. But also they do meet in person and discussing ideas, whether it's a host a lunch and have social influencers opt into it or invite them and pay for their time where they are authentically choosing to find the connection with your cause or a story that they feel like, okay, that's one that they want to retell. And so I think it is learning and building off of using our digital worlds as not that it's intended, but how it's grown to be most powerful. And I think some of it is looking at the kind of space that has been taken up and been successfully acquired by the mega movement. Whether you look at. So I'm a Sunday church girl. And so I went to a very large church gathering a couple months ago and it was very multicultural, but it was clear to me three minutes into the service that this was actually like maga culture. Like, it was chilling. And these are not villains. These are like regular families. Very sweet. The usher was like very kind. And there is a. A positioning and a tapping into. Yin mentioned some of the studies that folks have observed is on the COVID of the Atlantic a couple months ago about we have the most antisocial century and the set this kind of subgroup that they had impact were white male loneliness and a lot of things attributed to that. And so I think with the young people, I think a lot of it is going to what happened that they had grown to feel so isolated and the identities that they're looking for, the connections they're served up and it was through. So if you look at some of the breakdown of the most popular podcasts over the last couple of years, they weren't necessarily political podcasts. They were almost like sports podcasts or pop culture. Even like Joe Rogan's stuff. It doesn't lead all of his headlines don't lead with politics. And so it is like finding that toehold into areas of interest or spaces that folks are finding themselves who are younger and going to where they are. And so I think some of that is definitely grassroots in style and definitely needs to be. We need to almost relearn or learn for the first time how to speak in that native, like digital tongue. And so I think it is like a employing those and asking for their help who are in those spaces and earning the trust and the support of those who finding something that they see as you hear my issues. And I think we need to really rewrite some of the old playbooks on what are those headlining mantras or causes. Because I don't think we are listening or hearing what's really affecting younger folks where whether it's like looking at the availability of jobs or even the connection to others. Like recently there was a. It's in the New Yorker and a couple other pieces last this past weekend on the declining rate of folks looking for like romantic relationships being okay with, like single them. Right?

Rhea Wong (32:17)

Yeah. And there's that whole incel culture. I just watched the first episode of Adolescence, which by the way, if you haven't seen it, is chilling but also helps you understand what's happening in the lives of young people in the social media age. As you were talking though, I literally was thinking about BTS and BTS army and the ways in which these K pop bands, as an example, have been so successful at building this movement and building culture around an identity of being bts. They call it BTS Army. I only know this because my cousin is way into bts, but sure, your cousin.

Yuli Cha (32:57)

Yeah, I know it's okay for you.

Rhea Wong (32:59)

I think they're fun, but she's like, I'm not army. She's like, I'm light army. I'm like, I don't know what that means, but anyway, I love that. But I've read these adorable stories about people who go to BTS concerts and they're young and they're old and they're all over the map and how people are just very kind to each other because they're all Arby. And I think if we could figure out how to bottle that energy and that movement building around democracy, gosh, we'd be in great shape. Right? We would help people find a sense of being, a sense of purpose, a sense of belonging, a sense of hope for the future. Hey, it's democracy, not just BTC.

Yuli Cha (33:42)

Yeah, no, 100%. And if I can throw in a couple of concrete things is do you think almost treating our younger voters or citizens with kind of dignity and respect, knowing that a lot of them really bore the major brunt of lockdown and there is a lasting effect. And so whether we try to invite and have folks give them the leeway to give comp tickets to some of our events or really think about internships or experiences that while, yes, in the short run, it doesn't help your bottom line per se, but in really investing in young people and trying to be side by side with them as much as possible, I think, yeah, so just any experiences or engagements that, you know, doesn't check a box in terms of what you need to get done. But I think really investing in even if it's just like a couple of individuals that you can take on as.

Rhea Wong (34:31)

An intern, I'm going to put a plug here. I think a big step forward would be to put forward candidates that are not old white dudes. Just saying. All right, last question from me. So we talk about movement building. We've talked about a lot of pretty heavy topics. But I also want to talk about joy and what is the role of joy in movement building? Because I hear about things like this, this big festival that you're throwing into and that just sounds like fun. And I think so many of us are really hungry for some joy and hope right now because it feels so heavy. It feels especially coming out of lockdown. I really struggle to think about a moment of pure joy. So how do we embrace joy as we are engaged in this very important and sometimes heavy work of justice?

Yuli Cha (35:19)

It has to go hand in hand, right? And we just launched our Everyone250 Coalition. So this is inclusive version of celebrating our 250th anniversary of the country. All that, everything that means. It means acknowledging and facing some of the good, bad and the ugly. And through that reconciliation, looking forward at what has this country has been built on an absolute diversity, not only of cultures, but of talents, gender, you name it. It's all part of what has powered sort of the innovation and the best parts of our nation. And through this we had a couple of launch events. Our art summit was in the fall and then we just had an official launch event with over 100 partners. So the idea is create as big a tent as possible. And one of our leaders keynote speakers had several of them had variations of joy is resistance and not letting the fight or folks who are actively trying to dismantle the things that we hold dear, not letting that get us down, that we have to do both. We have to fight every battle that we can with all the tools as well as live. And that's almost harder I think, because everything seems so very much high stakes and serious. But I think a the younger folks like children, they're watching the adults and I think that has its own imprint. So we are accountable to live the values and show up for that and the memories that we're giving one another. And also we need to sustain the fight. If democracy truly is a constant struggle and needs to be every day one over and over, then that means we're going to need to feed our. Some folks term it a soul care, but it's real. So not only like good nutrition, hydration, but I think feeding one Another and I'm definitely uplifted when I see folks who are 100% standing in the gap. I marvel at like AOC and Bernie going on their tour and just the renewed I'm like okay if they can do that or even like on social I think the young people who are taking up the mic or I'll see profiles of what look like they have the southern drawl and this white bearded dude, I can't remember his name but he now has shown up on my reel a lot because my algorithm has like learned that I really like his videos because he looks like he's going to be stereotypically of a certain but he just like hairs apart and is very funny. You know someone had recently it was actually a foreign policy advisor was describing the wartime texting that that was on signal that was recently reported that violates like multiple acts, Residential records act, Espionage act. Really serious stuff. He described it as a bunch of Fox News personalities cosplaying as government officials. I think the Daily show has given me miles and miles of sustenance. So I do think as an organization knowing that it's hard to create spaces for yourself. So as much as folks might have their friend or in their own circle, I feel at embrace we feel incredible responsibility to intentionally design spaces that really celebrate joy as resistance with a capital R. And that's where we lean on all of our artists. This is when stuff like this happens. That's when artists get to work. So absolutely giving them the platform, the funding surrounding the beautiful spaces. So we take it very seriously. The business of joy. There's definitely. It's a key part. I think it's the cornerstone of our strategy because things will probably get worse before they get better and we've got to continue to feed ourselves.

Rhea Wong (39:12)

That is a great place to end. So bottom line, fund the artists and the comedians. That's right. Thank you. Thank you so much for this really thoughtful and insightful conversation. I hope people take away something to think about and something to do and something that adds joy to the world. So thank you so much.

Yuli Cha (39:33)

Thank you.

Rhea Wong (39:36)

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