#338- Power of a Healthy Pipeline with Maria Griffin

Summary

Podcast Summary: Nonprofit Lowdown #338 – Power of a Healthy Pipeline with Maria Griffin

Host: Rhea Wong
Guest: Maria Griffin, Chief Advancement Officer at DREAM
Release Date: May 19, 2025

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1. Introduction and Background (01:14 – 01:57)

Rhea Wong opens the episode by introducing Maria Griffin, the Chief Advancement Officer at DREAM. Maria is transitioning to launch her own consultancy aimed at helping nonprofits achieve sustainable fundraising growth. She shares her recent challenge at DREAM: transforming their fundraising approach from event-based to a long-term, sustainable model with the goal of increasing annual funds from $15-16 million to $20 million.

Notable Quote:

Maria Griffin [01:25]: "We're raising $16 million to how do we make sure that we can raise $20 million every single year."

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2. Events as Fundraising Tools (01:57 – 05:00)

Rhea and Maria delve into the effectiveness of large-scale events like galas versus smaller, more intimate gatherings. Maria highlights that while DREAM’s galas are highly successful for stewardship and donor identity, smaller private events yield higher conversion rates for long-term donors.

Notable Quotes:

Maria Griffin [02:55]: "Big events like galas... are really great for stewardship. They build donor identity and create networking opportunities."

Rhea Wong [04:20]: "Small, intimate events are the way to go for a conversion."

Maria emphasizes the importance of event strategy, noting that most fundraising work—about 80%—happens months before the event through board and leader connections. She advises nonprofits to focus on sponsorships and high-value table sales rather than ticket sales to maximize revenue.

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3. Building a Development Team (09:15 – 11:16)

Rhea inquires about building a highly functioning development team capable of raising substantial funds. Maria attributes their success to starting with a strong team and expanding strategically based on the organization’s goals. At DREAM, the team grew from eight to fifteen by adding roles focused on individual giving, institutional giving, corporate fundraising, and operations.

Notable Quotes:

Maria Griffin [09:24]: "When I came into DREAM, I had a really strong sense of strategic clarity about what the best hallmarks of a great major gifts program was."

Rhea Wong [11:16]: "How do I build a highly functioning team?"

Maria stresses aligning team members with where funds are sourced, ensuring that the majority of their efforts—74%—target individual donors rather than corporate or foundation grants.

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4. Moves Management and Donor Journeys (13:00 – 16:26)

Rhea challenges the traditional moves management approach, questioning its effectiveness for major donors. Maria defends moves management, explaining that sophisticated fundraisers can adeptly navigate non-linear donor journeys by tailoring interactions based on individual motivations and readiness to give.

Notable Quotes:

Rhea Wong [13:00]: "Moves management is an outdated way to think about moving a pipeline forward with major donors."

Maria Griffin [13:52]: "You're still using the same tenant of partnership-based fundraising in which they're getting to know you and you are getting to know them to move them along in a journey."

Maria illustrates that despite setbacks in donor progression, ongoing engagement and strategic adjustments keep donors moving towards significant gifts.

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5. Managing and Growing the Pipeline (16:26 – 19:00)

The conversation shifts to maintaining a healthy fundraising pipeline. Maria underscores the necessity of an organized and clean database, identifying top donors, and having regular pipeline meetings to assess donor stages and next actions. For challenging donors, she recommends dedicated strategy sessions to rethink approaches and understand donor motivations.

Notable Quotes:

Maria Griffin [16:26]: "Making sure that you're talking about the right people and always having an intended next action for folks is crucial."

Rhea Wong [18:33]: "How do you ensure a healthy pipeline, especially at the top where you need enough prospects to convert?"

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6. Communications and Fundraising Alignment (19:00 – 22:10)

Rhea highlights the common disconnect between communications and fundraising departments. Maria responds by advocating for shared goals and regular collaboration to create donor-centric communications. She emphasizes tailoring messages to speak directly to donors’ motivations and simplifying complex program details to resonate emotionally.

Notable Quotes:

Maria Griffin [19:00]: "If we can establish shared goals among the two teams, then we're going to be unstoppable."

Rhea Wong [21:14]: "What's the end goal here? Are we just making pretty graphics?"

Maria explains the importance of creating impact reports that resemble investor reports for financial donors and fostering direct interactions between donors and students to enhance emotional engagement.

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7. Donor Retention and Stewardship (22:10 – 26:46)

The discussion moves to donor retention strategies, with Maria noting that DREAM maintains high retention rates through a committed board and multi-year asks. She differentiates stewardship from cultivation, emphasizing ongoing engagement post-gift to reinforce donor relationships and encourage multi-year commitments.

Notable Quotes:

Maria Griffin [25:37]: "One of the things we've done is moving people towards making multi-year gifts."

Rhea Wong [25:57]: "What have you done that's been really effective from stewardship?"

Maria describes tactics like investor-style impact reports for financially driven donors and meaningful student interactions for those interested in direct impact, advocating for tailored stewardship based on donor archetypes.

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8. AI in Fundraising (30:23 – 32:40)

Rhea and Maria explore the role of Artificial Intelligence (AI) in fundraising. Maria is enthusiastic about AI’s potential for optimizing and enhancing fundraising strategies, particularly in prospecting and cultivation. While DREAM hasn’t yet implemented predictive analytics, Maria anticipates significant advancements in strategy development and donor engagement through AI.

Notable Quotes:

Maria Griffin [30:53]: "AI is going to change how we do prospecting, cultivation, planning, and strategy."

Rhea Wong [31:55]: "We should build it. If it doesn't exist, don't take our idea, guys."

Maria suggests integrating AI with CRM systems to generate personalized donor strategies, echoing Rhea’s enthusiasm for leveraging technology to supercharge fundraising efforts.

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9. Culture of Execution and Sustaining Systems (34:35 – 38:36)

Rhea addresses the challenge of maintaining a culture of execution within nonprofits. Maria emphasizes the importance of balancing strategic planning with actionable steps, encouraging teams to start initiatives without over-planning. They discuss the value of diverse team strengths and collaborative decision-making to sustain execution systems and prevent plans from stalling.

Notable Quotes:

Maria Griffin [34:56]: "The only right way is to start."

Rhea Wong [36:07]: "How do you create a culture of execution and ensure that systems sustain themselves?"

Maria highlights the significance of team collaboration, where different biases towards strategy, process, and action converge to drive consistent execution and adapt strategies as needed.

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10. Strategies for Multi-Year Giving (38:36 – 40:48)

In the final segment, Maria shares her strategies for transitioning one-time donors to multi-year commitments. She focuses on leveraging the support of long-term donors and board members to advocate for multi-year gifts, fostering a culture where sustained giving becomes the norm. Maria underscores the importance of presenting compelling cases for multi-year support and engaging donors as partners in long-term organizational growth.

Notable Quotes:

Maria Griffin [36:54]: "One of the things we're doing is moving people towards making multi-year gifts."

Rhea Wong [40:27]: "You look like such a sweet person, but underneath it lurks the heart of a killer and I'm here for all of it."

Maria outlines the approach of involving experienced donors in strategizing multi-year asks, creating a ripple effect where their commitment inspires others to follow suit, thereby securing sustained financial growth for the nonprofit.

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Conclusion

In this episode of Nonprofit Lowdown, Rhea Wong and Maria Griffin offer invaluable insights into building and maintaining a healthy fundraising pipeline. Key takeaways include the strategic use of events, the importance of a well-organized development team, effective donor stewardship practices, the integration of AI in fundraising, and fostering a culture of execution. Maria’s expertise underscores the necessity of tailored approaches to donor engagement and the benefits of multi-year giving strategies for long-term sustainability.

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Notable Quote Highlights:

• "Small, intimate events are the way to go for a conversion." – Maria Griffin [04:20]
• "The only right way is to start." – Maria Griffin [34:56]
• "AI is going to change how we do prospecting, cultivation, planning, and strategy." – Maria Griffin [30:53]

For more insights and strategies on running your nonprofit like a pro, be sure to listen to the full episode of Nonprofit Lowdown #338.

Transcript

[Rhea Wong]

Hey you, it's Rhea Wong. If you're listening to nonprofit Load On, I'm pretty sure that you'd love my weekly newsletter. Every Tuesday morning you get updates on the newest podcast episodes. And then interspersed, we have fun special invitations for newsletter subscribers only and fundraising inspo because I know what it feels like to be in the trenches alone. On top of that, you get cute dog photos. Best of all, it is free. So what are you waiting for? Head over to riawong.com now to sign up Foreign welcome to nonprofit Lowdown. I'm your host, Rhea Wong. Hey podcast listeners, Rhea Wong here once again with nonprofit Lowdown. Today I'm really psyched because I am talking to my friend Maria Griffin. She is currently the Chief Advancement Officer at dream. For those of you who listen to my podcast episode with Rich Brown Berlin about board management one in the same organization, Maria has extensive experience with raising big ass gifts with big ass teams. And today we're going to learn all about that. But before we jump in, Maria, you have an exciting new chapter in your life. So tell us a little bit more about that.

[Maria Griffin]

Yeah. Thank you so much. I'm so pumped to be here. I've watched this podcast and listened to this podcast for a long time and like one day I'm going to make it on this podcast.

[Rhea Wong]

Today is the day, friend. Today is the day.

[Maria Griffin]

So thanks so much for having me. But yeah, Maria Griffin here. I'm currently the Chief Advancement Officer at DREAM and will be transitioning to launch my own consultancy to help nonprofits do the same. I was brought into DREAM with a big challenge. How do we transform this fundraising program from events based fundraising program to something that's long term and sustainable? We're raising 15, $16 million to how do we make sure that we can raise $20 million every single year? And for the past few years I've been doing that and I'm excited to do that for the rest of the sector.

[Rhea Wong]

I love it. Okay, wait. I want to jump into this because I have feelings about events. I have a perspective about events. So in my theory of the world, and you can tell me if this is accurate, events are just a really good acquisition channel. And what I mean by that is oftentimes people will come to events, particularly here in New York, they'll come to events because our company bought a table or whatever. And I think as fundraisers, we're always hoping that we can then convert those attendees into longer term donors. And then we're disappointed time after time when we can. So my question to you is have you been able to crack the code or do you think about event fundraisers different than long term donors?

[Maria Griffin]

Yeah, I would say that we're beginning to crack the code at dream about the right type of events for the right type of goal. Big events like galas, we do really well. We have an amazing team, we have an amazing board that makes our gala like one of the best in the city. Not to brag, but I, I really.

[Rhea Wong]

I think it's 100% correct. Yeah.

[Maria Griffin]

That said, like, it is, it's great for stewardship. It really builds donor identity, it creates networking opportunities for our donors and it's just like a really great feel. Good night. The question of conversion is something that, like, we've cracked a little bit. But I always find, at least in my experience, whether it be a dream or in the past in consulting, that like, small private gatherings that are meant to introduce the organization to folks really help when it comes to conversion. A few months ago, we actually had a small private gathering, maybe with 50 leaders in the private credit space that brought folks together to learn more about dream, to hear from our leaders. And we got a lot higher conversion from that in terms of people coming to the building, coming to our schools, coming to see our work, and talking to our fundraisers and leaders after that than we typically do with the gala, which is like this big scale, amazing event.

[Rhea Wong]

Yeah. I. 100%. And actually you're not the first and you're probably not the last to talk about the power of small events, which I think are really about intimacy. And particularly now in I think this era of loneliness and isolation, people really are hungry for authentic small communities. So if I have to say it once and say a bajillion times, small, intimate events are the way to go for a conversion.

[Maria Griffin]

Yeah. And get people in person. Like, we are cra. Like you say, like we are craving people and human interaction and making sure that those moments are meaningful means the world.

[Rhea Wong]

Yeah. And I also just think, and for all those folks out here who are listening about the big gala, like the big dream gala, but it's like decades in the making. So I feel like the other mistake people make is they're like, oh, we'll just do this one big glitzy gala. Chances are you're probably going to be losing money at breaking even for the first couple of years while you build momentum. So this is a long game. This is not like a we're going to throw this once and make millions of dollars kind of strategy.

[Maria Griffin]

Yeah, I would definitely agree There.

[Rhea Wong]

Yeah, I know y' all are out here wanting to be like Robin Hood or charity water or whatever. It's not happening for you the first year out.

[Maria Griffin]

Right. And the reality is, like, most of the fundraising work should happen beforehand. Like 80% of those funds are raised before the start of the event. And they're raised through the connections of the leaders and the board members who are able to give gifts themselves, who are able to get their companies to give, who are able to get their clients to give. That work is happening two, three months before the event even starts.

[Rhea Wong]

Oh, I was going to say here in advance because if you're in that honoree business, honorees are like, I've been. I've booked up like five years in advance. You're like, okay, great.

[Maria Griffin]

Oh, yeah. And it's cyclical, right. It like depends on. We have two, three signature events at Dream. We have a big gala. We have a fall event that's more for like our junior board. Our ambassadors champion that and our corporate sponsors champion that. And we also have the celebrity poker event. That said, we're now fundraising year round to make sure that we're getting gifts beyond just those events as well. And oftentimes that is happening through small cultivation events, through tours, through one on one meetings. So it's all happening year round. And it depends on the donor that's in front of you in terms of who is. Who is the best fit for what specific event.

[Rhea Wong]

Yeah, her. And the other thing, I'll get off this event train, but I think we just. I kind of had this realization because I'm on an organization that does a big, let's say, gala every year. And we've been having conversion problems in it. And the insight that came to me is that galas are often B2B, which is like, people do it from a business perspective. Like, I do it because my client asked me to buy a table, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But the relational individual fundraising we do is B2C business to consumer. And it's just a different strategy. They want different things. And I think when we try to keep pushing a B2C strategy onto a B2B event, like, that's when we hit the wall.

[Maria Griffin]

Yeah. That if I'm being completely real, I think that I would say, like, the galas work when you have a specific type of board. Yes. Have a specific type of board that is able to solicit transactional gifts from businesses.

[Rhea Wong]

100%. Yeah. It's very like quid pro quo. Like, I give you business, you buy a Table while continue to do business.

[Maria Griffin]

And being able to say, this is a room you want to be in, you're going to want to be in this room that night.

[Rhea Wong]

That's right.

[Maria Griffin]

And that's a business strategy.

[Rhea Wong]

That's right.

[Maria Griffin]

Oftentimes when I'm sitting with, like, board members, I ask them to pull out two lists. They're like wedding and their holiday card list and then their client list. The client list is often for the sponsorships, for the galas, things like that. But the wedding list, the holiday card list, that's for more. The relationship management. Invite them to the small private gathering, invite them out to the school, because those are the real relationships that we want to be creating. Actually, both are great because they're both bringing in funds, but it's a really different approach.

[Rhea Wong]

Yeah, smart. Oh, and last thing I'll say about Galison events. So if you are out here listening to this, you make money on sponsorships and tables, not on tickets. Please stop killing yourselves selling these 250, $500 tickets. That's not where you're making the money. You're making the money on the marquee sponsor and selling $25,000 tables. I know. Marie, you and I are out here fundraising in New York, which is a bit of a different beast. But, like, wherever you are, whoever you are, sell the tables, not the tickets. Thank you. This is a public service announcement. Okay. Let me transition, because I could go on and on about events for a million years, but one of the things that is really remarkable about you is that you not only built, but you managed a highly functioning development team. So let's walk through that, because I know there are folks out here. I talk to a lot of people. A lot of people have very small teams, if they have a team at all. So I think it's just interesting to think about aspirationally, like, what does that look like at a point when I'm raising 15 or 20 million dollars? Maria, how do I, too, build a highly functioning team?

[Maria Griffin]

Yeah, And I appreciate the kind words. I had a great team to start with, and then we just built upon those strengths. One of the things I'm a big.

[Rhea Wong]

Oprah fan and mother Oprah is like, really? Yes, please. Patron saint of all of us. Please continue.

[Maria Griffin]

But she says the thing about the most successful people is, like, they know where they want to go. And so when I came into dream, I had, like, really strong sense of strategic clarity about what the best hallmarks of a great major gifts program was. And a big part of that was team we knew where we wanted to go, which was $20 million annually. And then I was able to do an assessment to be like, okay, where, where are those funds coming from? How are we going to get to those funds? And then what is the type of team that we need in order to support that strategy? So everything is based in that goal. Everything is based in that strategy. And it's also based in what are the current strengths of the team and how does that need to be transformed. So this scaling of the team from eight or nine to now 15, it wasn't just about adding people. It was about, about adding like the right people, the right roles and the right strategy. When I came in, we had a really strong, amazing event team, but we only had two frontline fundraisers that just didn't. And one of those frontline fundraisers was really relegated to corporate foundations. Corporations, which is not where most of the funds come from. Like, we know that. What Is it the 66% of funds come from individuals?

[Rhea Wong]

74.

[Maria Griffin]

Is it 74?

[Rhea Wong]

Yeah, it's between bequests and individual.

[Maria Griffin]

Yeah, it's like I must have the Giving USA report. I must have been had the last one because I swore it was 66. But 74 proves my point even further. We need to make sure that we have folks that are frontline that are capturing those dollars. So we, I had to build the case to make sure that like our team members were aligned to where the funds are coming from.

[Rhea Wong]

Yeah.

[Maria Griffin]

So we now have three folks focused on individual giving, three folks focused on institutional, two focused on corporate, and then an operations team that includes events.

[Rhea Wong]

So Maria, let me ask you because I know I can hear folks out here being like, cool, I hear you, Maria. Fifteen people on entertainment sounds amazing. And if it's just me, how do I give myself enough breathing room to not only have the strategy, because I think the challenge of small to mid sized nonprofits is like they're doing and have to strategize at the same time. And guess what happens is you're very short on strategy time because you're literally just in the weeds. So.

[Maria Griffin]

Right.

[Rhea Wong]

Help me out. What do I do?

[Maria Griffin]

Yeah, so I talk about this a lot. So with some of the folks that I've coached, whether or not there's single team, executive directors and CEOs or small teams of two or three, it's about knowing your week to week and what are the key activities that you need to move forward for fundraising to happen. So even with my team, you can do this on a team of two or a team of 15. What are the moves that need to happen? What are the clear metrics that you need to have? What do those weekly pipeline meetings need to sound like? How many meetings did I have this week? How many prospects did I have this week? What stewardship did I commit to this week? What, where? What is the health of my pipeline and am I moving people forward? That's getting them in a position to be asked for a long time gift Being very clear about what your Weekly and monthly KPIs are and how you as a single fundraiser can move that pipeline forward. Using Moves management system is really where you need to be. Whether or not you have a big or small team. It's like thinking about those right actions.

[Rhea Wong]

All right, Maria, I'm going to ask you about Moves management because I've been out here having opinions about moves management particularly. Largely my opinions are that it is an outdated way to think about moving a pipeline forward. Particularly with major donors. Specifically with major donors. Because look, if you're doing touch points with your, I hate to say, low level, like your smaller gifts and your mid level gifts and you can systematize, right? You're like, look, I know every quarter we're going to do this, we're going to send them whatever annual report, we're going to do a check and email, great. But when it comes to major gifts, when it comes to highly curated, high touch, bespoke experiences, yeah, I think all bets are off with the moves management. But challenge me on this, I'm ready to be wrong in these cases.

[Maria Griffin]

That's when it pays to have a very sophisticated fundraiser or relationship manager who's done moves management at the mid level stage so they know how to handle someone. That gift can move in a month, that gift can move in 18 months, but you're still moving the donor along in a journey. You're still gathering information from them that entire time. You're still planting the seed for them to get to know you and understand your organization, whether or not that be in a series of two meetings or 10. So the way I would push is, yeah, you might be not qualifying them in specific stages. Oh, they're in cultivation right now. They're in briefing right now. They're in stewardship right now. Like you are still using the same tenant of, of partnership based fundraising in which they're getting to know you and you are getting to know them to move them along in a journey.

[Rhea Wong]

Yeah, I agree with that. I think I was just pushing back against the notion that people move in this predictable and Linear fashion. Which I think we, we like to tell ourselves because it gives us a sense of false control. But I'm like, you are not in control of this journey. Really?

[Maria Griffin]

Yeah. There's this chart that I really love about the real, like expectation versus reality.

[Rhea Wong]

Yeah.

[Maria Griffin]

Of, Of a campaign. And it's like in general, you think it's the quiet phase and then it's the public phase. And then you're in the closing stage and it's like this linear upward raise, but the. Then you move to the next line and it's, it's just like a squiggly line all over.

[Rhea Wong]

Yeah. You're like. And then this happens and like people come in the beginning and then there's a thing in like a lull in the middle. And then at the last day, everyone like, yeah, I think the same thing.

[Maria Griffin]

About like moving a donor along in their prospect journey. There are times when I'm like, oh no. We actually took two steps back in this meeting based off of what I learned and heard. Let me recorrect where they are because they are not ready to BS or they're not ready to move to the next stage or I still need to do some educating on X, Y and Z. It's not a linear journey at all. Like I said, I think you really do need like a sophisticated fundraiser when it comes to those major gifts who understand and listens to donors. Yeah. Hearing for the things about where they are.

[Rhea Wong]

Yeah. This is so good. I have so many questions. So one of the challenges that I hear perennially with nonprofits and again I work with generally mid sized, not quite as large as dream, but traffic seems to be everyone's number one problem when we think about our pipeline. What has DREAM done in order to ensure, as you say, a healthy pipeline, especially at the top of the pipeline where you have enough prospects to convert.

[Maria Griffin]

Yeah. The first thing is just to have a strong pipeline or to have an organized pipeline. I love our database manager. Like we could not do the work without her. We had to do when we came in. We also did a database transformation to make sure that like we understood where our. The health of our pipeline, that it was organized and that we understood who the top 10, 15, 100 donors were that we needed to secure that year in order to get to the gift. So just having a strong, organized, clean pipeline, like never underestimate that. Now to your question, the question of traffic to me, lives and dies in a weekly pipeline meeting. Making sure that you're talking about the right people and making sure that you're always have an intended next action for folks. And for me, it was funny. We were in a meeting last week talking through our top 20 priority donors, those gifts of 100k plus that are going to get us to goal this year. And there's one donor, this foundation that's like really stuck. We cannot figure out how to move the program officer. And we spend, we want to spend 20 minutes of time with her time talking about that donor. Every single meeting I'm like, okay, we actually need to talk. We need to sit back and have a different strategy meeting to talk through these. Some of these like tough donors. Otherwise, we're going through that pipeline on a weekly basis to make sure that like, we know the different stages of donors, we know our next action with them, we're developing materials for them, we're thinking critically about what our last step was, what our next step was, and being really organized with a strong pipeline. Then for the people that we like can't move, we're having monthly strategy meetings to be like, okay, let's really think about what our approach should be. Yeah, who's the right person to be on this? What's the right language to be using with them? Do we really understand their motivations and barriers? What are proposed three next steps with them? Like, I love those strategy meetings, but some of the tactical, like, you have to often need to separate it from the tactical.

[Rhea Wong]

Yeah, I want to talk about the role of communications because what I find often is that there's a disconnect between the communications department and the fundraising department. And look, I'm a bit of a mercenary, but I'm like, the role of communication is to feed the pipeline like that. That's it. Like, you establish trust and you bring these people into your funnel. And so talk to me about how you think about the role of communications as it relates to fundraising.

[Maria Griffin]

Yeah. I have observed organizations who do this terribly and I would actually say, like, most of us are not very good at this. And Arcsine. Org is where the comms team and development team work hand in hand in order to communicate with their stakeholders effectively. My sense is that if we can establish shared goals among the two teams, then we're going to be unstoppable. One of our goals is to make sure that we have a fully funded organization and the core audience for that is our donors. This work is a big tent. They're a key stakeholder in our communications. We need to have a set of donor centric communications that is like things that speak directly to our donors. Their Gifts and the impact of those gifts that will help us move our fundraising forward. We sit down with our comms team on a weekly basis to move through those items. But at the beginning of the year, it's really getting a sense of what's our donor communications plan, what are the materials that we to need, need, what are the regular touch points that we're going to have, how can we leverage the general or communications for donor communications, and how can we create shared successes among that.

[Rhea Wong]

Yeah.

[Maria Griffin]

I think that's one of the things that I really love about dreams Culture is like, there is. It's really cheesy to say teamwork really does make the dream work.

[Rhea Wong]

Hey, listen, your organization is literally called Dreams. So you're.

[Maria Griffin]

I know. And yet the. The word play is there. But one of the things that's really interesting about our culture is that whenever there is a win, it's never like, whenever there's a win and we shout out that win, it is always shouted out because of a team effort. And when we are doing our work, when it comes to our wins on our wins in development, most of that work would not be able to happen without the partnership of communications. Like, we are so lucky to have them.

[Rhea Wong]

Yeah, I think that's really. It's really helpful. And I think the thing that always, like, puts a bee in my bonnet is when I see communications that, like, it looks really pretty but is clearly not designed for donors, I'm like, what are we doing? What. What do we, like, are we out here just, like, making pretty graphics?

[Maria Griffin]

Yeah.

[Rhea Wong]

What's the end goal here?

[Maria Griffin]

Yeah, And I think too, like, particularly in education and education reform, there's a way that we talk internally to our teams, to our teachers, to our school leaders about this work that actually doesn't translate externally.

[Rhea Wong]

Yeah.

[Maria Griffin]

Because, like, we can talk about our achievement results all day, about different testing levels and where our students moved, but that's a really different story and message and language that we would want to use externally to our donors, because sometimes at the end of the day, most of our donors just want to know that all kids are getting a fair shot at being sick, like, fulfilling their potential and being successful in this world.

[Rhea Wong]

That's right. That's right.

[Maria Griffin]

And the smaller indicators that, like, we know as, like, program leaders that really matter, those are sometimes, like, less important. So the translation to the donor audience, we have to pareback be simple.

[Rhea Wong]

Yeah.

[Maria Griffin]

About what really matters to them. And these are things like, we're not completely. We're not changing our values, but how we Talk about the work is just different.

[Rhea Wong]

It's totally not the same thing. I literally had this conversation the other day yesterday with one of my clients because he's the founder. He is deep into the weeds. And I'm like, the minute you say metrics or achievement results to your donors, their eyes will glaze over. I assure you, they don't care.

[Maria Griffin]

Yeah, they don't care. They'll have questions that you're probably not going to be able to answer or, like, you're going to have to do some re education in a way that just makes it all convolute. I'm like, let's be simple, let's be real. Let's be bold about this. Let's also name the challenges of the things that we have ahead.

[Rhea Wong]

Yeah. And I find this is true. And I actually have a founder, but I find this is true, particularly of founders. Founders. I love y' all. The world would not be what it is without y' all. But you are often not the best person to explain the program because you have. You are cursed with too much knowledge. Right. You get into the weeds, you start talking about, like, little details that, like, no one understands. You've lost your audience. And so often I feel like my job in a lot of times is I call myself, like, the dumb blonde. Like, I'll come and be like, I don't get it. What do you mean by that? Because, trust me, if I don't get it and I'm like, really trying to understand what you do, your average donor who spends eight seconds on your website is not going to get it.

[Maria Griffin]

Yeah. And we have to remember, too, that, like, we're trying to make people feel something.

[Rhea Wong]

Yes.

[Maria Griffin]

Like me explaining Dream's very innovative, like, two teacher model and how we make the role of the teacher more sustainable to a donor is just most of the time less interesting than me asking the question of, tell me about a teacher that you really loved and cared about. Who was the teacher that had the greatest impact on you when you were growing up? That elicits more of emotional response and feelings about this work and what we are doing. Compared to me talking about some of the great innovations that we're making, they're great. And perhaps our teacher sustainability model is great for a foundation audience, but when it comes to an individual donor, I'm using a different set of talking points. I'm using a different set of questions.

[Rhea Wong]

Okay, this is so good. I have so many questions. But let's start here. As a sector, we generally tend to be pretty bad at Donor retention. So I'm curious if you can share what the donor retention is at DREAM and what have you all done to focus on retention? Because as we know it is way cheaper to raise money from an existing donor versus a new donor that you have to go chase.

[Maria Griffin]

Yeah. So donor retention is high at dream and that's because we have such a committed board and cuts friends of the board members who are able to make gifts in multi year gifts. We actually track retention mainly at our highest levels, which I think most organizations do. That said, because of our like I will be real and say because of our gala model, we're often bringing in folks that are friends of the honoree that aren't going to show up as donors in the next year. But one of the shifts that we're trying to make at DREAM and that we've made pretty effectively over the last few years is multi year asks. So asking people to stay with us for a longer time and make a longer term investment. And that's really been helpful because we're able to, and this is nothing new, but we're able to bring people in, keep them and steward them and have them bring others along too in years two, three or four.

[Rhea Wong]

So what have you done that's been really effective from stewardship? Because I feel like a lot of people. Yeah, it's a little bit of a black box, right. They're like, oh, is it just basically like cultivation? Do I like invite people to events? Do I take them on site, visit? So I'm just wondering, how are you thinking about stewardship as being separate and different than cultivation?

[Maria Griffin]

Yeah. And I talk with my team about this all the time because I feel like it's this forgotten stage.

[Rhea Wong]

Yeah, that's why we lose people at the back. I'm like, guys, you've done all this work of romancing them. Now that you've got a ring on it, don't forget about them.

[Maria Griffin]

Love me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, it's like this forgotten stage and we all mess it up. So we have to like I, I in every one, every other month we have this concerted pipeline meeting about two things. The first is prospecting and I'm like, okay, let's not just talk about the new bringer donors that bring in, but also folks in the stewardship stage. And there's a few different like tactics that I've set up for my team that are all based on the donor archetype we have in New York. We have a big finance donor and one of the things that we've started doing is these impact reports, but they look like investors reports.

[Rhea Wong]

Oh, smart, right. I like that.

[Maria Griffin]

Fun little tidbit for everyone. But we're. They look like investors reports in the way that like we're sharing data that shows the efficacy of our program. We're sharing it on a regular basis in the same way that they would get in the, in the private sector and they're seeing trend lines, they're seeing data, they're seeing our insights. And I think the, one of the reasons that we're able to do that well is because we have a fantastic data team and we really understand like we're making data distribute different data driven decisions all day long and we're able to extract that, the relevant information and share that with donors. So that's for like donor archetype. That is for our donor, our finance world. That said, there's also a strong group of people who want to give and get involved in ways directly with our students and that stewardship is oftentimes direct interactions with our students that are actually meaningful. Meaningful for the donor, but also meaningful for the student. And we're lucky in this sentence. We have college and career days where donors can come in and speak about their experiences. We also got just to talk about their industries, but also share key decision points that they've made along the way. How did you decide where you wanted to go to college? Tell us about a difficult time that you like were dealing with a boss. Like the hard and the soft skills that our students will need to be able to know. So it's those interactions with our students that make them feel great about the work, that make them feel like they were giving up their time, not just their treasure.

[Rhea Wong]

Yeah. Yeah. It's so critically like one of the best things we ever did at Breakthrough was we had every summer a career day, which was a way to cultivate our corporate partners. Imagine having a group of 10 cute middle school kids dressed up in like their Sunday best with a little business card asking you questions. You're like, yes, I'm going to give this organization because it's freaking adorable.

[Maria Griffin]

Yeah.

[Rhea Wong]

But also high value for the kids too because many of them don't have families that are in corporate law or finance or whatever to be able to see the inside and be like, look, this is what it is and we're just adding to your social capital here.

[Maria Griffin]

Yeah. And the thing is there's a handful of those are two tactics that we named. There's a handful of different tactics that we use depending on the person in front of them that we have in front of us. I think what I'd want your listeners to know is that it's a forgotten stage. We're doing a bad job at it. Let's all collectively do a better job at it and think about what is going to be meaningful for the person actually in front of us.

[Rhea Wong]

Have you read Unreasonable Hospitality, Maria?

[Maria Griffin]

No, should I?

[Rhea Wong]

Yes, you absolutely should. You should make your team read it too. Unreasonable Hospitality by Will Godara. Will, if you're listening to this, I'm coming after you. You should be on my podcast. But Will was one of the founder or was one of the geniuses behind Eleven Madison Park, a book about unreasonable hospitality, going above and beyond to make people feel special. And I think every fundraiser needs to read this book. I have no financial stake in this. I just think it's a really good hang. But. And then the other thing, Maria, I'm going to offer to the listeners and I'd love to have you give it a whirl. Let's talk about AI for a second. I created a custom GPT that helps you identify your ideal donor and you can ask it questions like, what kind of stewardship should I do? So if you're interested in giving that GPT a whirl, I'll put the info in the show notes, but I'm going to send it to you. Maria, I'd love to get your take on it.

[Maria Griffin]

Yeah, we'd love to see that.

[Rhea Wong]

All right, a couple of different questions. Let's talk about AI for a second. I know we're going off piste here, but dude, AI is here to stay. I have recently been playing around with this thing called Manus AI, which is just like, oh, the robots are definitely going to come and kill us one of these days. More impressive. What is your take on the future of fundraising and AI and how are you using it if you are using AI within your current operations?

[Maria Griffin]

Yeah, I, I feel like AI is AI. I'm so excited about AI. I know that I am just scratching the surface on like, how to use it right now. I'm just like, using it for like optimization and efficiency, for example, like writing in emails, editing emails, thinking about the different languages and frameworks that I use. I think that it's going to change how we do prospecting. I think it's going to change how we do cultivation, planning. I think it's going to change how we do just general, like, strategy. But we have just scratched the surface. It is way more than just efficiency and optimization. And I like, I'M here for it because if we don't adopt it now, we're going to be left behind for sure.

[Rhea Wong]

Yeah. I'm curious, do you all use any predictive analytics and AI at Dream?

[Maria Griffin]

Not yet. We're not there yet.

[Rhea Wong]

Okay, we should keep talking about this because I feel like my next thing is I want to start teaching people how to use AI to optimize and increase efficiency and productivity because everyone's problem is that they don't have enough time in the day.

[Maria Griffin]

We do this with student centered learning being like, okay, here's everything that I know about this student. Here's what their last assessment scores were. Help me address their gaps and create a lesson plan that will allow me to move them or to an X, Y and Z level. I don't see why we couldn't do that with a donor. Hey, I just met with this donor. Here's everything that I learned about them as you have. Like, you're connected to our CRM that has their giving and donor history. Tell me about the different strategies and tactics that I can use to move them closer to a position to be asked.

[Rhea Wong]

Yes, 100. We should build it. If it doesn't exist, don't take our idea, guys. Or if you're listening and you want to build this thing, build it.

[Maria Griffin]

Yeah, I'll just say that prompt into ChatGPT and then see what it spits out.

[Rhea Wong]

You can. So with this custom GPT I created, you can ask it questions. And what I've been doing recently is using the GPT and then literally if you have host meeting notes or if you just want to speak it. So I've been using Super Whisper so I don't have to type everything and it'll spit out. Here are some strategies. Do you want me to draft emails for you and you're like, like, oh my God, this is blowing my mind. I think people should try this custom GPT and so should you. And I'd love your feedback on it. But yes, you're 100% right. Which is like, we do all of these things. But look, I think humans still need to be involved. Obviously, there's just a level of expertise and just judgment that I think you get as a human and creativity. I think ChatGPT is not that creative and I think there are ways that we can supercharge our powers that can be very helpful when we have big goals. Last question. I know I keep saying last question, but you're just so insightful. When we spoke, we talked about a culture of execution, and here I think execution is where good ideas go to die. Right. Like we create these beautiful strategy documents, we color code them, we have all of the spreadsheets and the project plans and the blood of the. And then it all dies. So I'm just curious about how do you create what you've called a culture of execution and how do you make sure that the system sustains itself? Because I feel like the other thing, I'm like, this could just be my personal failing but everything just reverts back to the norm. Yeah. And I had all these plans about the monthly check ins and the weekly prospect meetings and the we're talking about our top 20 and all the things and then it just falls apart. So what have you done in order to sustain both the culture of execution but also making sure the systems that you're building actually sustain?

[Maria Griffin]

Yeah. It's funny, there's like different organizations, I've seen different biases and I certainly have my own right. That like show up. I have a bias towards strategy. I think that's because I'm a perfectionist and I like want to think through what the most appropriate and right approach should be. I actually have a sticky note on my computer that says the only right way is to start.

[Rhea Wong]

Oh yes.

[Maria Griffin]

And it's those little reminders being like, oh, okay, I have an MD that's very much focused on like process. I am biased towards strategy. I have another leader that's focused on like action. How do we make sure, like we have the mix of all the right three and we often name that in them in meetings. Being like, this might be my bias here but. And then we agree on the norms being like, why don't we just start.

[Rhea Wong]

Yeah.

[Maria Griffin]

Why don't we actually just send them a cold email? Because we might be spending an hour thinking about the best way to access them and trying all these different ways, which is the right approach. But at the end of the day, what's there to lose if we just send a cold email.

[Rhea Wong]

Yeah.

[Maria Griffin]

They're likely to respond.

[Rhea Wong]

Yeah, yeah. It's so funny you mentioned it because like my bias is definitely shoot first, ask questions later.

[Maria Griffin]

Makes you a good fundraiser. Right.

[Rhea Wong]

It doesn't. It doesn't. Right. Like I think my bias is to go out and just, I don't know, I'm just going to have the conversation, I'm going to see where it goes. I think where it falls apart is I'm really not a strong process person. And so when it comes to like, why don't we develop a plan for follow Up. I'm like, yeah, I'm bored already. Can I just tell me where to go. Just shoot me in the right direction and I'll just go.

[Maria Griffin]

So I, yeah, I think in this case this is about having the right team because one person is always is. Like you said, people default. We're likely going to default to the doing the work a specific way. But one of the things that I love about my team is that every single meeting is almost like a meeting of the minds. We all bring our different strengths to it and we're all pushing in different ways and we end up coming to the right action eventually because of the different places that we come from.

[Rhea Wong]

Yeah, look, it comes back to the teamwork making the dream work. Right. Okay, wait, I want to talk. I know I keep saying last question, but really, truly, this is the last question. You talked about how you were able to successfully move folks from one time donations into multi year. Talk to me about the strategy behind that.

[Maria Griffin]

Yeah, so we've had folks that are giving one time donations for many years, so we know that they're bought in. I often would come in and be like, listen, I'm the new chief Advancement Officer. I've brought in to create a sustainable program where we're trying to get from $15 million to $20 million. Here are my best ideas and how to get there. One of the things that we're doing is moving people towards giving, making multi year gifts. This is the, this is what I think the case should be for it. How do you think that would land with folks? How do you think that would land with your peers? Then they would give me advice and meanwhile they're talking themselves into it. Give me advice on how to go about this. Yeah, I really think if we can get that core group of people, the folks that have been with us a long time thinking this way, other folks would follow suit. Do you think that would be true? Yeah, and I think you would have to say it this way and yeah, I think people would want to do it this way and they might, they would probably have these questions or these objections or these considerations, but ultimately I think, yeah, you could probably move people there. They're talking themselves into it. They're giving me the case for how to, how I want to follow up later on.

[Rhea Wong]

Yeah. So yeah, you look like such a sweet person, but underneath it lurks the heart of a killer and I'm here for all of it.

[Maria Griffin]

I called myself a Slytherin the other day and I was like, there's nothing.

[Rhea Wong]

Wrong with us to Them.

[Maria Griffin]

Nothing wrong.

[Rhea Wong]

They get stuck. Done, y' all.

[Maria Griffin]

That's part of this. Right. It's like understanding people's motivations and barriers and teasing information out from them and making them a partner in this work.

[Rhea Wong]

Yeah.

[Maria Griffin]

To get them to move them to where you want to go.

[Rhea Wong]

Are you a Scorpio by chance?

[Maria Griffin]

Wait. I think I'm a Pisces.

[Rhea Wong]

Really? Interesting.

[Maria Griffin]

I know nothing about Pisces.

[Rhea Wong]

Are here for vibes.

[Maria Griffin]

I'm here for a vibe.

[Rhea Wong]

Yeah.

[Maria Griffin]

All day.

[Rhea Wong]

Those are, like, always strategizing all of the angles.

[Maria Griffin]

Oh, are they?

[Rhea Wong]

They'll be, like, super charismatic and be like, hi. But meanwhile, I'm, like, planning the whole thing in my brain. Yeah.

[Maria Griffin]

Wait. And do you know. But do you know anything about Pisces?

[Rhea Wong]

Yeah. Pisces are very. They're artistic. They're here for vibes. They're, like, very flexible. Oh, they're water. Right? They're just, like, interesting. I'm, like, seeing which way the wind blows here or not.

[Maria Griffin]

How I would describe myself, I'm like, I'm. My career goal is to raise $1 billion for organizations and leaders that I care about. Today, I've raised 570 million. I think, like, I want to do this for education, for women and girls, for black and brown communities, and I think some fun along the way. But I'm. I think I fall more on the Scorpio end here. I'm not like.

[Rhea Wong]

Or maybe you have something rising. I don't know. And check it out. All right, friend. This has been so fun. If folks want to get in touch with you, we will make sure to put your info in the show notes. I know you're out here trying to build a client list or just here's a moment to plug. Who are you looking to work with?

[Maria Griffin]

I appreciate that. I am. I'm most interested at. In organizations at specific points of scale. I love thinking about inflection points and how to use that for momentum for fundraising. So whether or not you just have a new CEO or transitioning CEO, how do you make sure that you're leveraging that moment to create strong fundraising practices or compelling fundraising moments? You built a new strategic plan that doubles your program growth. How do you raise the resources in order to actualize on that mission or there's a new initiative or campaign? How do you raise for that? So I'm really interested in points of scale.

[Rhea Wong]

I love that. All right, so if you're out here listening and you want Maria's very big brain on your work, and you are at a point of scale probably. Is there like a budget range that you're looking to work with?

[Maria Griffin]

Yeah. Five million plus is really the sweet spot.

[Rhea Wong]

Okay, five million plus. And you want this very impressive woman's brain on your work. Get in touch with her in the show notes. And also check out my custom GPT. It might be fun for you. All right. Thank you friend. This is so fun. We'll catch you on the flip side.

[Maria Griffin]

Thank you so much.

[Rhea Wong]

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