#341- Building A Nonprofit From Scratch with Dr. Nastassia Harris

Summary

Nonprofit Lowdown Episode #341: Building A Nonprofit From Scratch with Dr. Nastassia Harris

Release Date: June 9, 2025

In Episode #341 of Nonprofit Lowdown, host Rhea Wong engages in an insightful conversation with Dr. Nastassia Harris, the founding president of the Perinatal Health Equity Initiative. The episode delves into Dr. Harris's journey from academia to launching a full-fledged nonprofit, the challenges she faced, the strategies she employed to overcome them, and the lessons she learned along the way. This comprehensive summary captures the key points, discussions, insights, and conclusions drawn during their conversation.

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1. Introduction to Dr. Nastassia Harris and Her Mission

Rhea Wong welcomes Dr. Harris, highlighting her role as the founding president of the Perinatal Health Equity Initiative. Dr. Harris explains the organization's mission to eliminate inequities in black infant and maternal health by providing culturally congruent care focused on pregnancy, birth, postpartum, and breastfeeding support. The initiative is designed specifically for Black women and is led by Black women to improve health outcomes.

Notable Quote:

"Our organization focuses on eliminating inequities in black infant and maternal health through culturally congruent care designed for Black women and led by Black women."
[02:09] - Dr. Nastassia Harris

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2. Transitioning from Academia to Nonprofit Leadership

Dr. Harris recounts her transition from a faculty member in nursing to founding her nonprofit. Initially, she started the organization while still employed full-time in academia, driven by a pressing community need. However, juggling both roles led to burnout and uncertainty about sustaining the nonprofit full-time. The persistent lack of improvement in Black maternal health and a declining passion for her academic role propelled her to make the leap into nonprofit leadership.

Notable Quote:

"Black maternal health did not improve and women continue to die and have really terrible complications. So that was always pulling at me."
[02:41] - Dr. Nastassia Harris

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3. Overcoming Initial Challenges and Burnout

Launching the nonprofit was not a smooth journey. Dr. Harris found herself working effectively two full-time jobs, which led to burnout. She struggled with understanding the intricacies of nonprofit management, including fundraising and grant writing, and how to replace her nursing salary. Despite a rocky first year, her determination and strategic adjustments eventually led to a sustainable organization that now supports her financially as her primary occupation.

Notable Quote:

"The first year was not great. It was a struggle, it was a transition. But I figured it out and I am fully with a salary that has replaced my income."
[04:57] - Dr. Nastassia Harris

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4. Recognizing and Addressing the Bottleneck

A significant turning point was when Dr. Harris realized she was the bottleneck in her organization. Initially, she focused on hiring programmatic support, which did not free her up as expected. Encouraged by Rhea Wong and Brooke Richie Babage, she shifted her hiring strategy to bring in roles that aligned with her growth needs, such as fundraising and executive roles, rather than just program support.

Notable Quote:

"I need someone that can build systems and structures to help us scale."
[05:01] - Dr. Nastassia Harris

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5. Strategic Fundraising: From One-Time Gifts to Relationship-Based and Monthly Giving

Dr. Harris discusses her evolving approach to fundraising. Initially reliant on grants and one-time donations through Facebook fundraisers and community events, she struggled to meet her goals. Through Rhea Wong's training, she learned the importance of relationship-based fundraising, akin to dating, where building a connection precedes asking for support. This shift enabled her to engage more effectively with donors, leading to more substantial and consistent funding sources.

Notable Quote:

"It's like saying, can I do this? Can I not do this?... What would it look like?"
[01:34] - Rhea Wong

Transformative Insights:

• Relationship-Based Fundraising: Emphasizing building genuine connections with donors before making asks.
• Donor Avatars: Identifying and targeting specific donor groups who resonate deeply with the organization's mission.
• Monthly Giving Programs: Shifting focus from one-time donations to creating a community of sustained supporters.

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6. Hiring Strategies: Embracing the 'Who, Not How' Philosophy

Dr. Harris emphasizes the importance of hiring the right people over trying to do everything herself. She adopted the "Who, Not How" approach, focusing on bringing in experts who excel in their respective fields. This strategy allowed her to delegate effectively, ensuring that each team member could contribute their best without the need for micromanagement.

Notable Quote:

"You don't need to micromanage them. You can let them do the thing that they can do."
[07:33] - Rhea Wong

Key Strategies:

• Hiring for Expertise: Bringing in individuals who are specialists in areas outside her core competencies.
• Delegation: Trusting team members to handle their responsibilities without constant oversight.
• Avoiding Micromanagement: Focusing on outcomes rather than controlling every aspect of the work.

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7. Codifying Core Values to Drive Organizational Alignment

Dr. Harris shares her journey in defining and implementing the nonprofit's core values. Initially perceiving core values as mere statements, she realized their critical role in shaping hiring practices, decision-making, and maintaining organizational focus. By integrating core values into interview processes and daily operations, the organization ensures alignment and prevents mission drift.

Notable Quote:

"Our core values now help to shape the questions that we're asking on interviews."
[20:14] - Dr. Nastassia Harris

Core Values Implementation:

• Interview Processes: Designing questions that assess candidates' alignment with organizational values.
• Preventing Mission Creep: Staying focused on the primary mission by adhering to defined core values.
• Organizational Decision-Making: Using core values as a guide for strategic and operational choices.

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8. Building Systems and Structures for Scalability

One of the pivotal lessons Dr. Harris learned was the necessity of establishing robust systems and standard operating procedures (SOPs) early in the nonprofit's development. She highlights the mistake of neglecting structural organization, which led to inefficiencies and hindered growth. Hiring a Director of Operations to build and maintain these systems was crucial in enabling the organization to scale effectively.

Notable Quote:

"Having someone that is really excellent in building systems and structures and SOPs is going to help you to go to the next level."
[25:28] - Dr. Nastassia Harris

System Building Highlights:

• Standardization: Creating repeatable processes to ensure consistency and efficiency.
• Organizational Knowledge: Documenting procedures to prevent single points of failure.
• Hiring for Systems Building: Bringing in roles dedicated to developing and managing organizational infrastructure.

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9. Advice for Aspiring Nonprofit Leaders

Dr. Harris offers valuable advice for those looking to launch or scale their nonprofits:

• Confidence: Believe in your ability to succeed, even when faced with uncertainty.
• Strategic Planning: Don't rush into quitting your job; ensure your nonprofit is ready to take on the next level.
• Hiring Smartly: Prioritize hiring key roles that can build systems and drive growth.
• Building Relationships: Focus on relationship-based fundraising and donor engagement.
• Continuous Learning: Utilize available resources and maintain access to training and support for ongoing development.

Notable Quote:

"Have confidence in yourself that you can be successful in doing it."
[25:28] - Dr. Nastassia Harris

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10. Transformation and Growth Post-Collaboration

Reflecting on her collaboration with Rhea Wong, Dr. Harris acknowledges the profound impact it had on her nonprofit journey. Prior to their partnership, her fundraising efforts were minimal and ineffective. Through strategic training and accountability mechanisms introduced by Rhea, she transformed her approach, leading to significant improvements in donor engagement and fundraising outcomes.

Key Outcomes:

• Enhanced Fundraising: Transitioned from unsuccessful campaigns to securing major gifts, including monthly donors contributing up to $1,000 each.
• Operational Efficiency: Implemented systems and structures that facilitated smoother operations and scalability.
• Sustained Growth: Established a solid foundation for future fundraising initiatives and organizational expansion.

Notable Quote:

"We have been able to uplevel where we were when we started to where we are now and know that is going to be the jumping off point for the next iteration of our fundraising work."
[31:09] - Dr. Nastassia Harris

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Conclusion

Episode #341 of Nonprofit Lowdown offers a compelling narrative of building a nonprofit from the ground up. Through Dr. Nastassia Harris's experiences, listeners gain actionable insights into effective fundraising, strategic hiring, the importance of systems, and the power of defined core values. Her journey underscores the significance of confidence, strategic planning, and continuous learning in achieving nonprofit success.

Final Thought:

"You'll get better use of your time if you know something coming in about fundraising. But you'll always have access to the information."
[32:00] - Dr. Nastassia Harris

For aspiring nonprofit leaders, this episode serves as an invaluable resource, providing both inspiration and practical strategies to navigate the complexities of nonprofit management.

Transcript

[Rhea Wong]

Hey you, it's Rhea Wong. If you're listening to nonprofit Load On, I'm pretty sure that you'd love my weekly newsletter. Every Tuesday morning you get updates on the newest podcast episodes and then interspersed, we have fun special invitations for newsletter subscribers only and fundraising inspo because I know what it feels like to be in the trenches alone. On top of that, you get cute dog photos. Best of all, it is free. So what are you waiting for? Head over to riawong.com now to sign.

[Dr. Nastasia Harris]

Up Foreign.

[Rhea Wong]

Welcome to nonprofit Lowdown. I'm your host, Rhea Wong.

Hey podcast listeners, Ria Wong with you once again with nonprofit Lowdown. Today I'm with my friend and guest, Dr. Nastasia Harris. She is the founding president of the Perinatal Health Equity Initiative. And today we are talking about how she made the leap from a full time job to and this nonprofit as a passion project launching a full fledged nonprofit, the lessons that she's learned along the way and where she is today. Dr. Nastasia, welcome to the show.

[Dr. Nastasia Harris]

Thank you, Rhea. Thank you for having me.

[Rhea Wong]

I am so glad to have you. So you and I met because you were, we were working together when you enrolled in my program and back then I think you were just starting to maybe think about quitting your full time job and jumping into this as the full time. So where were you? I guess it was maybe three years ago. Is that right?

[Dr. Nastasia Harris]

Yeah, that sounds about right. I want to say 21, 22.

[Rhea Wong]

Wow. Time flies. So tell us a little bit more about what you do at the Perinatal Health Equity Initiative, which is so important for young people, mothers and babies.

[Dr. Nastasia Harris]

Yes. So our organization focuses on eliminating inequities and black infant and maternal health. And we do that in a couple of different buckets. Most of our work is centered around the pregnancy, the birth, postpartum, and then breastfeeding support as well. So we really provide culturally congruent care that is designed for black women and led by black women to really help improve outcomes.

[Rhea Wong]

And that is so critically important. I remember when I read the statistic about black maternal health statistics being that of like third world countries, it just blew my mind. I was like, in America, what is happening?

[Dr. Nastasia Harris]

Yeah, it's wild.

[Rhea Wong]

Okay, so talk to me a little bit. If we could back up a little bit. I know that you have a background in nursing. You were a professor at the time that we met. And you were. I remember having conversations like, oh, can I do this? Can I not do this? So what happened? Where were you and what really convinced you to make the leap.

[Dr. Nastasia Harris]

Yeah, there were lots of things that were happening during that time. One is I started the organization while I was a faculty member and really had just seen this community need and felt compelled to jump in and do something. And I didn't really fully understand what it meant to lead a nonprofit and how much work was going to be involved. And so I found myself working essentially two full time jobs and really being burnt out and also being very afraid of being a newish nonprofit, not fully understanding fundraising and grant writing, not having a full understanding of how I was going to replace my, my nursing salary and really run the organization full time. But a couple of things happened. One is black maternal health did not improve and women continue to die and have really terrible complications. So that was always pulling at me. But also my faculty position turned out to not be what I thought it was going to be. Academia is close to my heart. I love it. But it's also a lot of stuff that I didn't really want to do. My heart is in the maternal and child health and I started to get classes that I really didn't have an interest in. And so when the path of how I was teaching began to shift and my heart was no longer in the work that I was doing, it really made that very clear. That wasn't what I needed to be doing at the moment. Academia is not going anywhere. If I ever decide I want to go back and teach again, there will be a university in which I can go back and do that. But this work was urgent and that was really my deciding factor. And you and I had this conversation because I remember we were talking about fundraising and you just posed a question. What would happen if you did this full time? What would it look like? It's success for your organization. And I hadn't really thought about that until you had posed it. Because I was like, why? I can't do that. I'm not going to have my benefits, I'm not going to have my full time salary. And it was one of those things that was like, if I'm going to make this leap, then I have to make it work that I don't have any other option. And I was successful in doing that. The first year was not great. It was a struggle, it was a transition. But I figured it out and I am fully with a salary that has replaced my income for which I was making as a teaching faculty member. So I'm happy I made that decision. We've grown a lot since I've done that.

[Rhea Wong]

Yeah, our mutual Friend Brooke. Richie Babbage and I talk on a regular basis, and we have this phrase like, burn the ships, because I feel like when you're hedging and when you're like, maybe this and maybe that, I think it really keeps you from focusing.

[Dr. Nastasia Harris]

Yeah.

[Rhea Wong]

And sometimes that leap of faith can be scary. But you have to burn the ships like you do going back.

[Dr. Nastasia Harris]

Yeah. You have to just do it. Do it afraid.

[Rhea Wong]

Yeah. Do it messy, too. Because I think, especially as women, we have this real sense of, if it's.

[Dr. Nastasia Harris]

Not perfect, I can't do it.

[Rhea Wong]

But sometimes it's do it messy.

[Dr. Nastasia Harris]

I agree. I agree 100%.

[Rhea Wong]

All right. Speaking of doing it messy, you and I spoke about the challenges of scaling up an organization and this realization that you had that. Wait a second. I'm the bottlenec. I'm the bottleneck. I think a lot of people feel. I feel like that. That in my own company, certainly as a nonprofit. So talk to me about how you finally came to realize that you were the bottleneck and what you did about that.

[Dr. Nastasia Harris]

Yeah. I, again, don't think I fully understood the role of an executive director and what I should be doing. And I. And it was, again, you that kind of said something like, 60% of your time should be spent on fundraising. And I'm like, I probably have 5% of my time that's being spe that because I'm doing so many other things. And so I really started to look at what is the growth strategy of the organization and who are the people that I need to bring on in order to do that. And I think my initial coming to this was really like, I need people to do the programs. And so I was hiring programmatic support, which really wasn't freeing me up in the way that I thought. I was still very much in programs, still very much doing all the other things. And so those were not the roles that I needed to hire. I think it actually was Brooke as well that talked about hiring up as high as you can go. That should be the first person you hire. And I think that was probably my mistake, is I didn't go in that direction. And so I struggled a lot trying to figure out who were the people that I needed to have on my team to be successful. But once I understood delegation a little bit better and my role a little bit better, then it helped me to understand who were the people I needed to bring on in order to fill those gaps.

[Rhea Wong]

And, Natasha, you said something that's so important, and I'm just going to unpack it here for folks who are listening. A couple of things. Fine. Who not how. Because I think, especially as founders, we've literally had everybody's job, so we can tell everyone how to do their job, who hire people who are actually experts in their own sphere. You don't need to micromanage them. You can let them do the thing that they can do.

[Dr. Nastasia Harris]

Exactly.

[Rhea Wong]

Who not how is really important. And the second thing, there are many important things. But I do think that this is a mistake that a lot of folks make. I call it petting the panda bears. Like, you start the nonprofit because you want to pet the panda bears. You see the need for petting the panda bears. But when you become the ed, your job is no longer to pet the panda bears. Your job is to hire people to pet the panda bears. You need to find the money.

[Dr. Nastasia Harris]

Yes.

[Rhea Wong]

To find people to pet the panda bears.

[Dr. Nastasia Harris]

Absolutely. And it was really also skill set. I had to come to the realization, especially in this space where there aren't a ton of jobs and there is definitely a lot of interest in wanting to work in the maternal health space. I had to hire people that know more than me. I didn't want to be the expert on all things. And I also didn't want to constantly be in the cycle of having to learn how to do something in order to be able to do it. That was just taking a really long time to get things done. And so I am looking to bring in people who know this area very well, know it probably better than I do, and that's a good thing because then I don't need to lead them on that work. They're just going out to do it.

[Rhea Wong]

And the thing that you're talking about, which I think is really important, is the humility to know when you are not the expert in something. Particularly. I'm going to say this love in my heart because I love a founder, but I think founders often have a hard time letting go of this idea of, I know everything. I know all the things. I am the expert in all of them. How did you manage your ego, so to speak, to be like, look, I'm not the expert, and I need to find someone who is.

[Dr. Nastasia Harris]

I had to struggle first. I think I had to go through it and were like, you know what? It's taken me 10 hours to learn how to do something that this person could just do in an hour. Why am I wanting to spend my time doing that? That's not the best use of my time. I can just bring in someone that knows how to do it and do it well. And I think it just came to this point where I realized the organization is not going to grow if that continues to be my mindset. I have a set of expertise in certain things, but you can't know everything. That's just an impossibility. And I also got tired of holding all of the organizational knowledge. I wanted to sit with someone who could teach me something, show me how to do something better. And so it was really just understanding that's not how growth works. And I had to let that go. And also, I don't want to do everything. Like, that's not fun. That's not a fun job. I have to do all the things.

[Rhea Wong]

I know. It's so funny. As you're talking, I literally got this flashback of when I was an ED and I was a 26 year old ED. I talk about this a lot. And I remember and I, for me, I think it really came from a deep sense of insecurity. Oh. I'm 26. I like, I don't know what's going on, but I don't want them to think that I don't know what's going on. And I remember spending like three hours on this spreadsheet for a budget and I. And it was still a mess. And my board chair at the time was like, you have someone on the board who is an accountant who could literally do this in 20 minutes. Why are you struggling? And I was like, why am I Like, what am I trying to prove?

[Dr. Nastasia Harris]

Absolutely. Yeah. You have to let things go and really just understand everyone's zone of genius and work what works best for them and what your zone is like. I know that's not. Accounting is definitely never going to be my zone of genius. I am never going to get that the way that I should. But I want to have people on my team that I trust that know that and can help move it along so that I don't have to hold that.

[Rhea Wong]

Yeah. I do think there's a little bit of attention though, too, because on the one hand, you don't want to be expert in all the things, and on the other hand, you have to know enough to know when things are not right.

[Dr. Nastasia Harris]

Correct. Yep. You have to know a little bit of everything.

[Rhea Wong]

Yeah. Which is welcome to being an ed.

[Dr. Nastasia Harris]

Yeah.

[Rhea Wong]

Okay. Let's talk about fundraising, because you know, I'm all about fundraising.

[Dr. Nastasia Harris]

Yes.

[Rhea Wong]

So when you and I first started working together, you were brand new to fundraising. I think you've never, I think you maybe had applied to a couple of Grants, Is that right?

[Dr. Nastasia Harris]

I had some grants, but we hadn't had a fundraising. We had run, like a lot of campaigns that didn't raise any money. And so I didn't really understand why that was. And so I said, I probably need to learn something about fundraising if I want to be able to fundraise. And I think it was your book that introduced me to your course.

[Rhea Wong]

Got it. Okay. Talk to me about how your fundraising strategy has changed from when you first started. Because I think a lot of us do start with we have one or two seed grants to get us started, and then we're like, oh, I guess I'm a real non profit now. What do I do now? And just curious, from where you started to where you are today, what's changed?

[Dr. Nastasia Harris]

Yeah. One is we have a grant writer. I would say that is helped tremendously having someone that understands the language and how to write. So we do still have a number of our funding that comes from foundations. But I think what I did not understand prior to coming into your training is the relationship component of fundraising. I really just thought that I have this great cause, people are going to care about it, and if I ask people to donate, they're going to want to do that. And that was not happening. And I did not understand why that was. So we were doing like Facebook fundraisers. We were having like community baby showers and asking people to give to it. And we were never reaching our fundraising goal. And I think it was just coming into your class and really listening to, like, what relationship based fundraising is. How to talk to people. You use that dating analogy a lot. And it really helped me to understand, like, yeah, I can't ask you for all of your money on our first date. You don't know who I am. You don't know anything about me. Why would you do that? So I think it was just really understanding how fundraising works. And then once I got that, then I was able to really talk to who I needed to talk to. Because that's another thing that you were also very clear on is that everyone isn't your audience. You have to find out who your people are. And that avatar assignment helped me to really, one break the ice of just talking to donors, because I was very afraid to, like, I didn't know what to say, so I was just not making those phone calls, but then understanding, like, the questions that I need to ask, how I was getting to know them. And that helped me to identify who is giving to our organization and what group I needed to target. And so we started Shifting our language and our initiatives to really focus on the people who were most interested in our organization.

[Rhea Wong]

I love that so much. And actually, if you're listening to this podcast, I've been working on a custom GPT to help you with your donor avatar. So I'll send it to you after this call.

[Dr. Nastasia Harris]

Awesome.

[Rhea Wong]

But if you're interested in that, you can find it in the show notes. It's like my new favorite thing. Like playing with a bunch of AI stuff.

[Dr. Nastasia Harris]

Yes.

[Rhea Wong]

Okay, so tell me, so you started with the foundations and you started talking to your donors. How did talking to your donors and really dialing in your avatar help you to be more successful with individuals? Because I think you're right. We have this idea of if I build it, they will come. Like, of course everyone is going to care about my xyz. Cause obviously it's so important.

[Dr. Nastasia Harris]

Yeah, that's not the case. But what I did find out is many of our women who one is, it was mostly women who were giving to the organization. So that was helpful to know. A large pocket of our donors were black women with a story. Came to either had a really good birth experience and were horrified that other people were not having that experience and wanted to give to make sure others had a good birth experience or had a really terrible birth experience and wanted to prevent other people from having that experience. So there was definitely this personal connection to the work that I found that people were really using that as their tool to give. The other pocket I found were like lactation professionals. So I am a lactation consultant by trade and it is a underserved profession just in general, but really wanting to build upon supporting work that was community based, that was giving to increase lactation in the community. So I found that as a pocket and then medical professionals, lots of people who were nurses and doctors. And that makes sense with my background and kind of the language I bring to it. And so that helped me to identify who I need to be talking to and really using strategies that we're going to bring those people in. The events that we have now are catered to people who meet those demographics. And it's not just, hey, come to this thing because it looks cool. It is really designing an event around people who are most likely to show up to it.

[Rhea Wong]

Oh my gosh. The. The student surpasses a teacher. This is so good. Yeah, 100%. Because people who have listened to my podcast for any amount of time, I'm the one trick pony here. But if you're talking to everybody, you're Talking to no, no one. And people like specific. They have to know what's in it for me. Why do I care about this particular thing? How does this thing intersect with my own life experience?

[Dr. Nastasia Harris]

Yes.

[Rhea Wong]

And if you don't answer that question, they are going to ignore you.

[Dr. Nastasia Harris]

Correct. And we got ignored a lot.

[Rhea Wong]

Yeah. It's a noisy world out there.

[Dr. Nastasia Harris]

Yeah.

[Rhea Wong]

It's getting even noisier. So the more you can dial in your message and really hone in on these are my people and I'm not going to worry about all the other. The more your people are going to be able to find you.

[Dr. Nastasia Harris]

Absolutely. I agree with that 100%.

[Rhea Wong]

So talk to me about your monthly giving strategy. So I know that you are trying to diversify away from just foundation giving. Though a grant writer, what's been your strategy for individuals?

[Dr. Nastasia Harris]

I would say with individual giving, one is I didn't look at it as this concept of having a Runway for giving. I knew that there was like monthly giving as an option, but we never presented it as the option. And so we have shifted our donor, our main donor page away from one time gifts and steering people to the monthly giving program so that becomes a community. I did learn the importance of building community and fundraising that people want something that they feel this proximity and connection to. And so we are working on building it up to be a space that there are like things that are curated specifically for monthly donors. We highlight them, we highlight the work that we're doing. So really just building a like a program around it. And it's not just like an ask for a monthly donation, but it's actually a program and then asking people. I don't think I had ever asked donors to give a monthly gift. Most of our conversations were for one time gifts and most of our campaigns were around that one time gift. But I did find when you ask people something very specific, they will do what you're asking them to do. So it was really just getting over that fear of rejection and understanding that no is not. And this is something I think was really important that you taught me that the no is not about me. The no for me was very personal in the beginning, that I must have done something wrong or I didn't position it. And the money that I am asking for is not for Nastasia. It is for the mamas that we serve, the communities that we serve. And I had to learn to lead with that as the message that this really is not about me at all. That was probably something that I really had to understand when it comes to fundraising is people don't really care about you. They care. They care about the organization's work, the people that you're serving. And so moving them to the forefront and less about, hey, we hired this new person, or look at this new thing that we did. No one really cares about that. They want to hear about the families that we're impacting. And so leading with that has really helped to change how we just fundraise in general. But we also use that as part of our monthly giving. And then we also steward people in with a donor journey cycle. So we have those donor journeys for everyone that gives in different capacities. So if you are a one time gift, you get a different donor journey, you get a different one if you are a monthly giver. And stewardship is something that I hadn't really learned a ton about. And so I started to implement that as part of our programming.

[Rhea Wong]

My God, Nastasia, you're like, I can't believe that you weren't a fundraiser before. Because everything you're saying, I'm like, yep, got it, Got it. Okay, let me ask a different, slightly different question. I learned, oh, I know what a student you are, everyone. Star student, a no note. So talk to me a little bit. You and I spoke about the using core values. So I know this is something that you all are working on in terms of codifying core values. I know particularly since you're founder led, I feel like sometimes what I've seen as founders, they don't codify things. They're just like, it's in everything I do. It's just in the air that we breathe.

[Dr. Nastasia Harris]

Yeah.

[Rhea Wong]

So talk to me about how you're thinking about codifying your core values and how you're using that to drive decision making, hiring, fundraising, all the things.

[Dr. Nastasia Harris]

Yeah. So I would say it is in its baby stages. We're still in the development of it, but I think I understand the purpose of core values. Before, I thought they were like these cool statements that you have as an organization, but they actually serve a purpose. And so we are really fine tuning what our core values are based on how we want to do work as an organization, but also who we want to work for us. And I don't think those are things that I had thought about in the interview process. Our core values now help to shape the questions that we're asking on interviews. Because now I want to hear you demonstrate how this value shows up in your life, either professionally or in your personal life, and helps me to discern whether this is someone that is a good fit for the organization. I am really working on the hiring slow component because we have made some pretty bad hires of people that we thought were a good fit. And had I asked different questions, I would have got different sets of information. And one of those things is on ownership, like how do you own your work and how are you accountable and asking people to give examples of what that looks like. Because I have also found as an editor I'm holding the accountability and I don't want to babysit adults. I want to know that you can do this. We can check in and confirm that things are on track. But I don't want to be the nudge that's saying is this done? Is that done? I don't want to do that. And so I want people coming in that understand how to own their work and be accountable. So we ask questions that are more situational based to see how they demonstrate that. We also ask questions about time frame because we have also find people come into the organization and are looking to get in a particular role and then go somewhere else. But that's not what we're hiring for. So I want to understand what your long term goals are so that you're coming into the organization where we need you to be and not that we don't want people to grow, but you can't grow immediately coming into the organization. So it really is just on understanding how we do our work, but then also how we won't do work if it is not in alignment with these particular sets of values. Like one of our first values is black mamas first. And one of those things that we get asked a lot is what about this group? And our stance has to be yes, all these groups need help, right? Maternal health is bad for everyone, but black women are the only ones that it keeps getting worse for. Everyone's racial profile has improved except for black women. And so we're sticking to that. We're not expanding into any new work until we feel like we've made an improvement in here. So we are using that to really avoid the mission creep as well and make sure that we're staying focused on what we need to be doing.

[Rhea Wong]

Yeah, that's so important with to focus especially if you have some constraints around resources if you're going to really make a difference in this particular thing. It's really about focusing all of your time, efforts and resources on it.

[Dr. Nastasia Harris]

So absolutely.

[Rhea Wong]

Kudos to you. By the way, on the topic of hiring, did we ever talk about who the a method for hiring? I feel like I talked about this with you. Okay. For anyone listening out there. And I don't have any financial stake in this, but the book who the A Method for Hiring completely changed my hiring game. Because here's what I found is I would be hiring people interviewing. They gave a great interview, a plus all the things. And then once they were hired, I'd be like, wait, who is this person? Like, where was the person that I interviewed? Because that person is not showing up for work. And so when I realize is there's a difference between people who give a good interview and people who are actually good employees.

[Dr. Nastasia Harris]

Yes.

[Rhea Wong]

And so the thing that I think is brilliant about who is, it really relies on pattern recognition. So you ask the same series of five questions for all of the different jobs that they've listed. Because it's. Look, it's easy for me to just dazzle people and say what I would do and da, da, da. It's a different thing if I'm actually going through and looking at patterns of behavior, patterns of results for every single job that you list. So just a quick tip, and actually, if you have access to the old curriculum, I did this whole training on hiring, so I'll make sure that.

[Dr. Nastasia Harris]

Okay, yeah, absolutely. Because we're about to do a second set of interviews now, so that would be very helpful in this next group that we're about to onboard.

[Rhea Wong]

And I have to tell you, I think of all the mistakes I think I made as an ed, I think the hiring mistakes were the ones that stood out to me as the biggest mistakes. Because it's. It's expensive to hire, Right?

[Dr. Nastasia Harris]

Exactly.

[Rhea Wong]

Full time salaries are expensive. It takes a lot of time to find people, to train people, to onboard them properly. And then sometimes it takes a little bit of time to figure out that they don't really know how to do their jobs or aren't very good at it.

[Dr. Nastasia Harris]

Exactly, exactly. Yeah. Hiring mistakes are very costly. And that is something I am working on, making sure that we are interviewing differently and onboarding people very differently. Yeah, I agree with that.

[Rhea Wong]

Okay, last question before I talk about me. But the last question is, if folks are out here listening to you and thinking about either making the leap into doing their nonprofit full time or scaling up their nonprofit, what's the biggest piece of advice you'd have for folks?

[Dr. Nastasia Harris]

Oh, boy. I would say have confidence in yourself that you can be successful in doing it. And that doesn't mean just make a decision and go with it. But I do think there's obviously some strategy involved in figuring out what are some things you're going to do. I would not recommend quitting your job at a very brand new nonprofit. I would say get it in a position where you feel like you can take it to the next level first. But I would say our biggest mistakes. My first hire, if I wish I would have known better, would have been a director of operations Systems is really important for you to be able to scale and do things. When you have to repeat the same process over and over again or you have to look in this place, in this place, just to figure out things, it slows you down and it stops you from being able to grow. So I would say having someone that is really excellent in building systems and structures and SOPs, we were doing all of these things, but we weren't writing it out. And so we were having to duplicate that process every time we were going through it. Google files are all unorganized. So I would say having someone that comes in and can build structure is going to help you to go to the next level.

[Rhea Wong]

Yeah, yeah. I'm still learning that lesson, to be honest. I'm. Because the thing is, the world and I tend to attract people who are visionary, big ideas. We'll just figure out the details in the way. But behind every successful visionary is an integrator. Someone who holds down the structure, is super organized, like, focuses on process. And so you need those. Both those things in order.

[Dr. Nastasia Harris]

Oh, yeah, yeah. I would say I am that exact same way. And it's why it took. It was a long lesson to learn. And I wish I would have learned it sooner because things would have probably been in a very different place had I known that step sooner. I. My brain just thinks about things that I'm like, okay, cool, let's go do it. I don't always think about process of how we're going to do it. I just know it needs to get done. So I know I need someone that can like, all right, bullet it, bullet it a little bit.

[Rhea Wong]

Yeah. It's so funny because I feel like when I was ed and even now, my motto is, I don't know, we'll figure it out. And I realized that doesn't really work at scale. Right. You can't just bring people. I don't know, we'll figure it out. It makes people crazy, actually.

[Dr. Nastasia Harris]

Yeah.

[Rhea Wong]

Especially the other. My other big. Oh, let's just say areas for growth is I like new shiny ideas. And so I'd always be like, oh, I just learned this podcast or like this new strategy and my team, you speak no more New. Stop it. Let's just do the thing. I'm like, yeah, but exactly.

[Dr. Nastasia Harris]

I know.

[Rhea Wong]

So that just we. I need to. I just know I need to manage that part of my personality.

[Dr. Nastasia Harris]

I need an accountability partner. I've learned that about myself. I need someone that can help me hold. Take my vision and put it into a space in which it can actually get done. So I will just spew ideas and then have real. No idea of, like, how we're going to do it. I will get there, but it'll take me longer than having someone that can just build the process for me. I think I have grown tired of building the plane as we are flying it. I want the plane to be built now.

[Rhea Wong]

Natasha, you and I, two peas in a pod, friend. Two peas in a pod. I'm just like, we'll figure it out on the weekend.

[Dr. Nastasia Harris]

Yeah.

[Rhea Wong]

All right, let me ask you this last question. So I know you and I had met a couple years ago. We've stayed connected, been really amazing to see the growth of your organization. Can you walk me through a little bit of where you were before we started working together, what happened while we were working together and what has been the result after our working together?

[Dr. Nastasia Harris]

Yeah, I would say I was in a space of not really understanding anything about fundraising. And my relationship with fundraising, I think, was one of the things that opened up my eyes with you and how you taught things is really understanding your relationship with money. And it hadn't been something I thought about at all with why I am hesitant to ask or why I feel like I shouldn't have. Certain things came from my own history and my story with money. So I think one, understanding who I am as an individual, showing up in this space, what it means to fundraise, and just the knowledge that I've gained has all brought me to the space where now I understand how it functions. I can now put it into use. Whereas before, I just thought fundraising was asking people for money. I did not get the relationship component of it. I did not get how to invite people into your space. And so the things that you put in place helped to help me to understand that. But also you had this, like, accountability thing that you built in that was like, something I started using with my team, which was like the. I think it was like, eat your frog or something like that. And I was never doing that. And I was like, oh, this is a good strategy to actually help things to move forward. So now we have processes in place to actually make sure the ideas that we're creating and the strategies that we're using are moving into actual implementation. So we went from having very little fundraising efforts to really building out a full program where our big donor at one point was 1,000 or $100. Now we have people that are giving at $1,000 a month. And so that puts us in major gift category for us. And so I think I had to redefine what that meant for our. We're not at a space where we're getting million dollar gifts that I'm sure will come in the future, but we have been able to uplevel where we were when we started to where we are now and know that is going to be the jumping off point for the next iteration of our fundraising work. So it really has given me a foundation to build from.

[Rhea Wong]

Wonderful. And last question. If folks are listening and they've maybe been thinking about working with me, but they've been on the fence, like, what would your advice to them be? And I'm not paying her people.

[Dr. Nastasia Harris]

Yeah, I'm not getting paid to say this. I would say Rhea is awesome. See, who you're seeing on her podcast is who she is in real life. And having someone who has been in the ed space who understands fundraising, who is going to not sugarcoat the information. Like I said, the questions that she asked of me were real questions and made me rethink and reframe how I do things. And while we that work has ended, her lessons have stayed with me. And so I would say if you're on the fence thinking about it, definitely go in and do it. She has tons of reviews. She's written a book on it. Like, the girl knows her stuff. So if you are thinking about it at all, I would 100% say do it.

[Rhea Wong]

Oh, thanks, friend. Appreciate you.

[Dr. Nastasia Harris]

Of course.

[Rhea Wong]

I think that's it for me. Anything else that you want to make sure that you add or no pressure?

[Dr. Nastasia Harris]

Nope. I would just say make sure that you're coming in with. I would say don't come in cold. What I learned from Rhea took me years to operationalize because I didn't understand it fully in the moment. There were some fundraising and organizational things I needed to understand better. So I go back and I think that's the one really good thing about your program is you have access to it for life. So while I may not have understood it fully while I was in the program, now that I'm in a different space of my understanding, I can still go back to that content and utilize it. So I would say you'll get better use of your time if you know something coming in about fundraising. But you'll always have access to the information. And in Ria will answer an email. She will chat you on LinkedIn if you need some extra help. She's always around. So I would say that is one thing different about how you do your programs. It's not like you're taking a training and then like, all right, see you later. Yeah, you still have access to you, so that's nice.

[Rhea Wong]

Yeah, I think it's like being in the mafia once you're in for life. All right, my friend, thank you so much for everything and good luck to you. I'm so excited to see where you take it. And you know what, that million dollar gift is just around the corner, so keep going.

[Dr. Nastasia Harris]

Listen, I'm a wait on it. Thank you, Ria.

[Rhea Wong]

All right, take care. Thanks so much.

[Dr. Nastasia Harris]

All right, bye bye.

[Rhea Wong]

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