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- [00:00]
Rhea Wong
Hey you, it's Rhea Wong. If you're listening to nonprofit Load on, I'm pretty sure that you'd love my weekly newsletter. Every Tuesday morning, you get updates on the newest podcast episodes. And then interspersed, we have fun special invitations for newsletter subscribers only and fundraising inspo because I know what it feels like to be in the trenches alone. On top of that, you get cute dog photos. Best of all, it is free. So what are you waiting for? Head over to riawong.com now to sign up. Welcome to nonprofit Lowdown. I'm your host, Rhea Wong. Hey, podcast listeners, it's Rhea Wong with you once again with nonprofit Lowdown. I am so excited because today I am welcoming my friend and guest, Rhonda Allen, CEO of Dev Color. We're going to talk about all the things, but particularly what it is like to run an organization that is representing folks of color at this point of time. Being a woman of color in leadership, it's wild out here, y'.
- [01:03]
Rhonda Allen
All.
- [01:03]
Rhea Wong
So let's get into it. Rhonda, thanks for joining us.
- [01:07]
Rhonda Allen
I am so happy to be here. Thank you for having me, Rhea. Looking forward to our chat.
- [01:11]
Rhea Wong
Okay, before we jump into it, give us a little color on Dev Color. What do y' all do?
- [01:16]
Rhonda Allen
All the color.
- [01:17]
Rhea Wong
All the color. And Dev Color, please. And thank you.
- [01:20]
Rhonda Allen
Absolutely, absolutely. So Dev Color is built by and for black technologists. We're approaching our 10 year milestone and really, 10 years ago, a group of friends came together and said we need help figuring out how to navigate the tech industry, an industry that is growing super fast but is not set up for us to succeed and lead at the highest level. So what do we do about it? What's the playbook? It's the whisper network that we need but don't want to need. And so they came together as friends and said, let's figure this thing out. And so it really grew from a desire to support each other and pay it forward. So what started as a group of friends 10 years ago is now an organization that is centered on supporting our membership in our community, but also focused on partnering with companies and startups and ventures to make tech better and to make the ecosystem better. And so we are a membership organization that focuses on professional development, collaboration with black technologists at the center. And we know that when we support diverse leaders, black leaders, the work is better, the world is better, tech is better. We'll talk about that. Yes, we will be true in so many ways. And that's what we're up to at Dove Color and for Me, I've been leading this work as CEO for five plus five years and some change. I came to it in the pandemic because I also was at a place where I wanted to figure out how to navigate the world in a way that I would be proud and in a way that was really focused on my values as a black woman, as you said, raising black sons. I wanted to do workouts, values aligned and really center black leaders in my everyday versus it being an add on as it has been. That's how I found myself here, supporting leaders who are like literally building the world as we know it at the pace that they are building. It's an honor to lead this organization.
- [03:01]
Rhea Wong
All right, let's get into it because Big Tech has been in the news. It's always in the news, but certainly in over the last six months, as we've seen a lot of shifts and Elon taking over the White House and then exiting the White House and the girls fighting and all the things. Right. So as someone who's leading the work at the intersection of tech, DEI and black serving organizations, like, how are you making sense of this moment? I know that's a really big question, but I think certainly I talk to a lot of folks in the nonprofit sector and I think there's been this real sort of tension and feeling like they need to soften their language around who they're serving. Like, we're not going to talk about folks of color, we're not going to talk about black serving because they don't want to be a target. And yet, given the work that you do, like, it's clear who you serve, it's clear what you're about. So how are you thinking about that?
- [03:57]
Rhonda Allen
Yeah, it is so hard, right? I don't envy any of us, but here we are in this situation and one, I take heart and I'm encouraged because these kinds of changes and challenges come in cycles. You know, many leaders who have been in this work for years and years who's like, we've, they said we've crossed this bridge before. We will get through. You know, our ancestors and the folks who were in the work before us have navigated these kinds of things. So step one for me in the work and in leading the team and with funders is to stay grounded and to stay principled. What do we believe about why it is important to support leaders, period, to support black leaders and to support senior leaders who we know create waves of change and impact throughout companies and throughout industries? All of that is still true for us. And so when we think about what this moment requires, it requires us standing firm on our mission to advance the leaders and the communities that we serve for the good of the work, for the good of the business, for their own development and for those coming behind them. That's 10 toes down, full stop. I will say, when we talk about funders and the changing ways that we have to or may choose to change language, that's also something that's not new. You know, when we think about matching interests and needs, mission and resources, as fundraisers, we have to be thoughtful about how we tap into the interests and needs of our partners. And that is still true and even more true now. And so there have been hard conversations in which we've said, okay, are we still aligned? Let's actually get real about it. I know what's in the headlines, what's happening internally in your company, and how are you responding to the headlines, and how are you supporting the folks who work here? And we've had those conversations. Is this a good time to be in partnership? Are we able to move forward in a bold way? But our work hasn't changed, and I'm grateful for that. I know that is not something that I can take for granted. It's hard being a small nonprofit. And it is also true that when you stay centered on the missions, there's upside and there's value in that, even as we weather the storm. Another thing I'll say about the work we do as we are about our community, and we also see our work as a source of really incredible engagement with talent. Senior leaders, right? So when we think about workforce development, when we think the kinds of folks that we want leading innovation, we have arguably the most brilliant leaders in tech in our community. And so it's like, if you are interested in meaningful partnership around talent, we're still a great place, Right? If you are interested in innovation, we want to work with you. And it is also true that companies that may be interested in innovation, but are not as incentivized to focus on diverse talent, there might be friction and there might be times in which we have to part ways. So we're looking at that kind of in a case by case, partner by partner basis, while also staying grounded and centered on our mission.
- [06:37]
Rhea Wong
Well, let me ask the question that I'm sure folks are wondering because you do have a pretty significant corporate line item in your revenue, and what's happening publicly is that companies, at least the impression I have is that they're being pressured to not invest in DEI or to Roll back some of the commitments that they've made. I'm curious, is that showing up in your funding or are you finding that people are still fund funding but maybe just under the radar?
- [07:04]
Rhonda Allen
Yeah, all of the above. All of the above, I'd say. And it's interesting when you talk about invest in dei, even some of the leading practitioners in the field have talked about the changing name of the work and how the work is still the work even regardless of what you call. And so many of our partners are invested in leadership development, are invested in having incredible talent on their teams, leading their teams, are looking for super senior leaders. And so there is still commonality when we talk about talent and talent development, retention. Right. It still is super expensive to replace senior leaders. So there's commonality there. There's also the reality that there are organizations that had a mandate, that no longer have a mandate. Right. Had a legal requirement that no longer have a legal requirement. And in those cases, what I know is true for us and for many organizations, entire departments have disappeared. You're right. These organizations are in the headlines. Many of them we know and care deeply about. Like, entire teams are no longer. And so it's less a matter of me meeting with a partner and them saying, we can't, we don't care about this anymore. But that entire body of work no longer being a priority for, for organizations, which is unfortunate. My hope is that we will see and feel the impacts of these choices and come back to center, come back to what we know works. But yeah, I just wanted to make that distinction too, that like, it's not so much about them divesting actively real time, but like the people who do this often are no longer employed in these organizations. And that's also a real impact to the industry. Another thing I'll note about our partnership model, it has changed over time. That's part of the work of the ED CEO fundraiser to diversify our base so that when we hit these storms and hard times, we are not completely obliterated. And so for the past several years, it has been my job in charge to build relationships and meaningful partnerships across lots of different organizations. Right. I'm grateful for our foundation partners who still show up up in these moments. I'm grateful for the individual funders who say, yes, we will extend another year because I care about this work and I have the agency and resources to do so. And I'm grateful for the folks who give in month to month. Like, there are some members of our extended deaf color fam and community who give $25 a month recurring and have done it for the entire time I've been here. That matters. You think about political movements and campaigns now. Every dollar counts. I know every nonprofit leader listening to this will agree that every dollar counts. And so that small check, if honestly contributions of any size that are recurring are amazing, they encourage us along the way. But I will say, like, diversifying how we fund the work and being discerning and conservative with our spend as well has been a huge priority.
- [09:49]
Rhea Wong
So I want to talk about this because I've been talking recently online about rage giving and the fact that typically in times of turmoil, in times of recession, donors don't typically look for new organizations to support unless it's very specific to say, like the LA Fire, like something very specific that's happening typically. What I find is that folks will tend to double down on the organizations that they've already supported in the past. So I'm curious about how are you thinking about really doubling down and trying to nurture your existing community versus donor acquisition?
- [10:26]
Rhonda Allen
I definitely see and experience the trend around folks wanting to grow where they're planted in some ways and weather this with the organizations that are already in their portfolio and respect, respect and understand that. And I think this really underscores for me and for leaders in this seat, the need for us to be stewarding relationships all the time, right in ways that are high in integrity and authentic. Because you never know when an organization's interests or priorities may change, where there may be a leadership change. And to me it signals the importance of having a pipeline and a community of not just funders, but friends and champions that can activate at any point. Because I will say, yes, there's this moment of rage and people move differently when they're angry. There are some people who will activate around that and be like, I'm looking for great organizations that are mission aligned to give to. I'm pissed and I want my money to go here. Then there are some people who are like, hunkering down. The market's doing what it's doing. I know I wrote that check last year, but I need to just stay put. And then there may be folks who are all across the spectrum. And so to me, it just really under underscores the need for good stewardship and community and just like really being in touch with our friends, frankly, and people, and not just friends, but like people who may have never heard of our work. Like, I want us to be more of a household name. And it is true that we have to be Outside too, in order to reach communities that we haven't met yet and to see how proximate they are to the issues that we care about.
- [11:55]
Rhea Wong
Yeah, I've really been leaning into AI and thinking about how we're using it responsibly and with discernment to do our work, to increase our capacity. And also thinking about upstream, who is designing the AI, what data lakes are being used, who trains the models. And so I'm wondering if that's something that you are thinking about as someone who's heading up a. An organization focused on black technologists, many of whom I think should obviously be represented in this creation of AI, which determines a lot of the future in our current reality.
- [12:34]
Rhonda Allen
Right. It's absolutely something that's on my mind that keeps me up at night, if you will. I know we say that, but you know, the fact that AI is moving at the pace that it's moving and the jobs that were previously held by humans are evaporating by the second in many ways that doesn't eliminate the need for human centeredness as you just described. But like even many of the jobs in software and technology that our community has held in the past are changing rapidly. And so with that in mind, it is so critical for diverse communities to be the builders, diverse leaders to be the builders, to put the parameters and guardrails around the technology. And I won't say too much on regulation and all the things that are hot topics more broadly, but we have to be in those seats that are creating the conditions for this technology to work and to work in ways that are less harmful and less destructive. We've already seen, as you've said earlier, many headlines about the impacts and the negative impacts of what's happening. And yeah, our community and many of our communities are leading practitioners in the field. Let me be clear, like we have folks who are already shaping the path forward with AI and we need more leaders who are proximate to the world that AI is trying to mimic, serve and create, act at the helm in terms of like language models and large language models. Something that we think a lot about is who owns the data. Especially as a community that is a confidential, safe space for so many. We care about what happens with our members information and data and they for sure care about what happens. And so there is a desire to inform models in a way that is useful. But we have not gotten in like solidly into the field on that as.
- [14:14]
Rhea Wong
An organization, I have to tell you so in my darkest moment, I think about being in this DYSTOPIC world, Westworld, where the robots will come and kill us. I think we're a little ways away from there. But I have to tell you, I had this. I actually had a nightmare last night and the nightmare was I, there was an avatar going around with my voice and my face saying ridiculous things. And I was in this dream being like, that's not me, you guys, that's not me. And yet I think this is the reality. Like I've heard folks usually celebrities already battling this kind of thing where someone takes their face, takes their name and is shilling like a crypto coin that actually has nothing to do with them. So I know this is not a conversation about AI, but I do think that there is certainly risk. And yet, on the other hand, and I'd love for you to speak to this as a technology based organization, I find that the nonprofit sector in general is pretty slow to adopt and really maximize on technology. So I'm curious about how you're thinking about technology within your organization, representing technologists at the same time understanding the risks and harms that could be involved.
- [15:33]
Rhonda Allen
Your nightmare is legit, right? AI twins are real and they're multidimensional. And I've friends in the work who have supplied their capacity with their AI twin. And then there's also that scary possibility that you just described. So I just want to acknowledge the complexity of it all. And for us, on the organizational side, it's interesting. We serve technologists who are creating the world as we know it. And we are a lean nonprofit and our internal team is not as technical as the members that we serve. And so we are working to upskill, to bridge gaps internally, to build the infrastructure so that we can be well positioned to optimize our performance based on the AI's capabilities. It's a work in progress. We all are at different points in our individual learning and in our company wide engagement. And so it's also something I think a lot about and I'm actively working.
- [16:23]
Rhea Wong
On so to switch tax a little bit because I think we often talk about AI and other technology tools as way to be ways to being more efficient and more productive, getting more content out. And I think what is this AI slop? I think it's what it's called where we're just being like this wall of garbage is coming at us. It's interesting. I talked to lots of folks and they want to know how can I use AI, communicate at scale? And yet I actually think the future is small. The future is in smaller events. It's in connectivity, it's in being human. So I'd love to know about your strategy of actually zigging while everyone's zagging. You're going small, you're going small group, you're going intimacy. So talk of that strategy and how it ties into your fundraising.
- [17:10]
Rhonda Allen
I can. I couldn't agree more with your point around what will be unique in the days and years to come. Like, it's so fascinating how quickly we have been able to pick up on what is AI generated. Choose your model, name your model. Like, oh, yeah, that's from this place, that's from that place. So it is unique and refreshing and human to come together in person. Right. To have this person to person connection is something that I care a lot about. And that is important when I think about stewarding our relationships both with our community and with our broader funder community and friends of Deaf color. And so what I will say is that, and also this is a trend that I'm seeing across organizations like ours. Even when in the broadest strokes it may seem like organizations or companies are not invested, there are things that they are still invested in. And often it's hyper local, right? Close to home things in their backyard, whether it's in their local city or on very specific teams. And so to me, we talked about early in Deaf Color's years being like intimate and small by design. And it's coming back around that being smaller and intentional does create a personal touch to our events and to fundraising as well, and to bringing friends to the work that people appreciate. Right. So at its core, our programming is person to person. Right. There's a peer coaching model and those leaders go off and do great things and then word of mouth, they pay it forward. And so it's very interpersonal. Right. And then from a friend and funder angle, we want to bring those folks in community with members in a way that feels real. Right. We don't want our members to feel like we are putting them out on a display for funders to engage with in a way that's not authentic. So just this person to person, community focused approach is just at the heart of what we do, is in our fabric. And I think it's in this moment serving as well. So I really enjoy the energy and momentum created from salon events. Whether it's dinners, brunches, small group gatherings, the kinds of magic that can happen in that room, especially when well facilitated, there's nothing like it. And when we think about being lean for the EDS out there, having small group dinners, small Group gatherings with really cool topics and really interesting thought leaders in the room is, it is a lift, but it's a lift that is potentially manageable in a way that huge scale galas, for example, may not be in this moment. And so for me, having small group gatherings has yielded really deep and authentic opportunities that we were able to steward and hopefully turn into something meaningful over time. And similarly with our place based approach, when we started, you had to live within a certain radius to be a part of the community. And then we had Covid and now we're coming back around. And the number one thing that our members say is that they want to come together in person and collaborate, have those hard conversations, get coaching, real time. And so that is still just such a cornerstone of what we do. And so even from a place based approach, we had four chapter cities pre Covid. We are expanding in very local ways and still with a small footprint, with the goal of going deep in specific places. So the relationship element of that, just the possibility for collaboration, it really is what drives our work and gives our folks energy.
- [20:20]
Rhea Wong
Yeah, I love that because I've really been thinking about how to thread the needle between AI and the human connection and what I've been come up with, you know, let the robots robot, let the humans human. And last weekend, I mean, we're coming off the no kings demonstrations. And I think what was so powerful about that are people, like people power, small local events, knowing your neighbors, talking to your neighbors, that still matters and actually matters even more. So in this age of AI, of this digital world, we can feel so disconnected, like we don't know each other unless we actually have a conversation. Like you could, as they say, like you could. What's the thing about anyone can be a dog on the Internet, something like that. We can be really depersonalized on the Internet. And therefore, if we are creating containers and opportunities to truly connect as humans in a meaningful, authentic way, I think that's the differentiator we all want, I.
- [21:15]
Rhonda Allen
Won'T say all, many of us want to be known deep into, seen and to not just feel like another check or another transaction or another just meaningless engagement. And so it's powerful and I think there's, there's serendipity in it. There's like possibility that maybe is not there in the, in kind of the 2D space. And so I love it. It's the part of the work, when we think about fundraising that is really energizing to me because prior to this organization, this is my first CEO role, it's my first time fundraising as my job. And when I learned about what actually fundraising means, Right. I was like, okay, I can do that. Like, this is about relationship. This is about people. This is about connecting people with things they care about in ways that feel good to them. Right. This is about showing impact. And I think the way to do that most authentically is human to human, in my experience.
- [22:06]
Rhea Wong
Okay, I've got two last questions for you. Even though we could chop it up all day, so one of the things that I think we Is really one of the key responsibilities as a leader is to be the spokesperson for the organization. You know, you are the brand in many ways, and I think there's a real anxiety about it. And I'll speak for myself. I have been targeted terribly, but I have been targeted for trolls, Right. And I think, especially as a woman of color, that can feel particularly vulnerable to put yourself out in a public way standing for something that some folks may not agree with. So I'm just curious, how are you thinking about. You know, I almost hate the term thought leadership, but how are you thinking about really enhancing your thought leadership or at least your brand, and as the spokesperson for Dove Color, and doing so in a way that feels like you're not putting yourself in harm's way?
- [23:04]
Rhonda Allen
Goodness. This is, again, hard. It's hard work because of the nature of the work that we do. And I have come to terms and appreciation, honestly, of the fact that it is my responsibility to represent the organization in all spaces, to represent our mission, to represent our community and coming into the role. I think I was a little bit nervous about putting myself out there in a big, splashy way, being my biggest cheerleader, self, promoting all of that, because from the outside looking in, I had all sorts of stories about what. How I would be perceived doing that, I think. But over time, I have learned and come to appreciate the fact that people want to know who's leading the work. They want to understand what you're about, what you believe, what you think, your position on things. They want to see what you're amplifying and what you're not. Right. And so the choice of when to speak up, up, when not to speak up has been something that I've been working through and working on with the team, with the board and again, and also thinking about, like, personal brand and organizational brand and the relationship between the two. Right. Because I think there are some organizations where the CEO is the brand. And it could be argued that is true in nonprofit spaces, too. But I want to acknowledge Like I'm five year CEO, but I'm also not the founder. So it's like tricky in some ways to figure out how to show up. But at the same time, don't let the. For me, this is an appreciation of myself here. Like, don't let the trickiness and to whoever else might be a little shy, don't let the trickiness of it prevent us from just showing up. Right. Pressing publish, posting the thing, because being present and engaged is far more important than getting it right. Every single time people talk about building in public, learning out loud, I know I needed and want to do more of that. And so it's just at this, my growth edge right now is pressing send, pressing publish. I do well interpersonally and in person and I do have to push myself to be more vocal online line. And I also believe that's what this moment requires. So consider you my accountability buddy. I know we've talked about this before to be doing more of that because it is about personal brand, but like the brands are so connected and both need to be amplified in this moment. Yeah, needs to be amplified this moment.
- [25:15]
Rhea Wong
Perfectionism is patriarchal. I think when we look, I've often talked about we all need to be a little bit more Chad. Right. Chad is out here making all kinds of mistakes in public, hitting send. And I'm not saying that we do things without thinking about the consequences or that we're not thoughtful about it, but I think we tend to overthink, we tend to over police, we tend to comply in advance.
- [25:45]
Rhonda Allen
I mean all of that.
- [25:47]
Rhea Wong
Yeah, well, and we also, I think we also attach ourselves to perfection. Oh, if I can just shine up every single word, perfect way, then I won't be attacked. I won't be. People won't say mean things about me. And the truth is when you're a public person, when you're speaking publicly, you're always going. There's always that risk of consequences. We have the responsibility to speak out because the alternative is to not speak. The alternative is not to have an other narrative.
- [26:17]
Rhonda Allen
Yeah. It's so complicated though, for me as a black woman, I would imagine for women of color in this exact moment too, because there is a reality that we have been speaking up, right. We have been fighting this fight and to what avail? And so who's. Whose burden is it to bear in such a heavy way right now? Some would argue we got to stay out here and keep speaking and keep fighting. There are others who would say, actually in this moment, rest and joy, that is my fight. And that is what I'm fighting for, and that is the resistance. And so my silence and my lack of engagement as you experience the consequences of the choices that you all have made, despite years and years of us fighting and speaking up, that's real too. And it's such a multifaceted challenge because there is this narrative of too muchness. Right? You speak out too much. If you're too bold or too. You're too polarized, we have to do this dance. Much of it is rooted in the systems designed to silence us. And so we have to figure out, like, when we play, when we don't, to what extent. And I'm just acknowledging that, like, I'm very much in that work, issue by issue, moment by moment. Personally.
- [27:22]
Rhea Wong
Yeah, it's such an interesting question. I know there was a little bit of online kerfuffle recently where folks on the left were like, obama should just get back into it and be the leader that we need. And on the other hand, I think Questlove pushed back and was like, leave the man alone. Like, this is not his job to save us.
- [27:39]
Rhonda Allen
Obama are living their best life right now.
- [27:42]
Rhea Wong
Let them rest. They've done what they need to do. And yet, yet at this moment, we really do need leadership. We really do need people who can help us make sense of this moment and understand that we can get through this if we stick together.
- [27:57]
Rhonda Allen
That part. So leadership, but also alignment, clarity of consistency within the group that you were a part of. Because it's like in the absence of those things, we can have leaders, but if we're all doing our own thing and not coming together, it can undermine the very efforts of what we're trying do to do. Not to get too political by any means, but it's like us coming together and being aligned is the foundational piece too.
- [28:17]
Rhea Wong
Well, I. Look, I think we didn't land on politics. Politics landed on us, right? No life is political, especially in the nonprofit sector. Listen, we didn't ask for all of the funding to be cut without any warning. We didn't ask to have to address some of the biggest issues coming at us and taking care of the most vulnerable. Like, you know, there are organizations out here trying to feed folks in Africa. There are organizations out here trying to take care of immigrants. And it landed on our doorstep in a way that it. We could not predict necessarily, or at least the enormity of it. And so I think everything is inherently political.
- [28:53]
Rhonda Allen
And you know what's funny? Just a moment of like getting on the balcony, self awareness moment. I just did the thing, right. Like, not to get too political. It's like, no, Santa's down on what you just said. You don't have to capture it and make it warm for anyone who doesn't agree. So it's just like a constant unlearning and undoing to be intentional about what we're actually trying to say and achieve.
- [29:12]
Rhea Wong
Yeah. And I think the other piece that you mentioned was something that I've been thinking about, certainly on the left is the purity politics of if we don't 100% align on every single issue, then we can't be in coalition together. Right. As opposed to, like, can we agree on this one particular topic or this one particular issue? And is that enough? And so I think when we. And I think this is actually true of donors, which is interesting in that. But there are fundraisers out here who believe that if they're not 100% aligned with their donors on every single issue, they should not take their money. And look, I believe that you need to find your own way forward on the values that mean the most to you. But, like, I don't issue purity tests on donors or clients or friends or family members as long as I feel like there are a few core issues that are very. Values. Core values that are really, really important to me. And above and beyond that, like, we can disagree or we can agree to disagree.
- [30:18]
Rhonda Allen
Yeah. And the work requires that. Right. I'm thinking of something I heard Sharon De Bossier, CEO of edlock, say a couple of weeks ago. I will not direct quote her, but I will give the sentiment. She was like, you know, I may not have forever friends in this work. I may not have forever partners in this work. But like the mission and the students and the things that this organization is built upon, that is a forever thing. And if you can align with on that, then we can talk like, yes, we can talk across the aisle. We can talk across lines of difference. Like, that is what the work requires and being so now, end quote, end semi quote. But like, being so rigid about who we partner with limits the resources that are available to our organizations and to our team members. Right. You're talking about not only mission, but also running companies and businesses that employ people who have families. Right. And so we as leaders have to make those kinds of choices that are. Are as closely aligned to our values as possible, while also being as collaborative as possible in ways that serve the work. And it's not easy, but figuring out places of commonality is what has to happen right now.
- [31:27]
Rhea Wong
Yeah. Sort of the line, which I didn't necessarily ever think that I had to draw for me. Do you believe in democracy and the rule of law? If so, like, I think we can talk about something and to me that seems fairly basic. But guess what? In 2025 in America, maybe not so.
- [31:42]
Rhonda Allen
Much make any assumptions out here.
- [31:44]
Rhea Wong
Yeah, facts. Are we living like in a post fact world?
- [31:50]
Rhonda Allen
It's hard.
- [31:51]
Rhea Wong
Yeah.
- [31:51]
Rhonda Allen
Like it's unreal, but it's real. That's what's also wild.
- [31:54]
Rhea Wong
I know I want to be an eternal optimist. I do think that as a country, as a citizenry, as a democracy, you, it's almost like a teabag. Like you don't actually know the strength of it until it's in hot water. And not that I think think we needed to be challenged in this way, but I do think we needed the reminder that we can't take democracy for granted. We can't just assume that people are going to follow the rule of law. We can't just assume that justice will take course. Like we need to be active participants in that every single day, 100%. And frankly, as Americans, I think we've gotten a little too fat and happy. I think we have taken democracy for granted. This has been so amazing. Last question that I have for you is you and I have known each other for a couple years. I started working with you, I think, when you more or less first started the your role as CEO. And so I'm curious for folks out here who are listening who might think about working with me. Tell me, and I did not pay you to say this. Tell me what has it been like?
- [32:56]
Rhonda Allen
You helped me raise these dollars though.
- [32:58]
Rhea Wong
Yes, I did, friend. Yes, I did have all the things. Please help me.
- [33:04]
Rhonda Allen
Yeah, this. When folks do great work, it's easy to share good feedback. So this is, as you said, unpaid, unprepared, but so real. When I first joined the initial accelerator years ago, I was new to fundraising. I know I said that early in our conversation, didn't really know how to go about this work beyond just the initial reading of the Generosity Network and talking to a few friends and getting pumped up. But one of the things I appreciate about the way you work with with leaders, whether it's like heads of development, eds, folks who are newer to the work. And then I could talk about my later in the work experience is that you bring us together and you brought us together in a cohort to figure this thing out together and to challenge each other and to be accountable to each other. So I had Never hosted a salon dinner. And now earlier, we're talking about the power of community and the interpersonal connection. I didn't really know what the path to a successful Jeffersonian dinner or salon dinner was at the time, but you helped me ground in different ways of doing this work and find my initial footing and figure out, like, what is the right mix for my organization at my size? And also what could I aspire to beyond where we were at that moment? So we, I think we were talking about, like, how to raise your first million dollars. Like, what is the path to that? First major gift. I say million, but first major gift, first big check. And that happened for me in our time together, you know, and so I was like, okay. And then it's like, oh, I want to grow from a, you know, organization of this size to this size. Like, there are many, many milestones to come that I want to figure out. But laying a really strong foundation together was so helpful for me. And then fast forward, I just did another mastermind with, with you not too long ago. And what I appreciate about that, like, you had leaders who were more seasoned, which I knew from earlier in the work together, who were trying to solve more complex challenges. Right? Figuring out, how do we appropriately staff development work in times like these? How do we inspire donors in light of where they are in the broader climate? How do we leverage AI? Like, all the things we talked about today, and you were so generous with us as a group. Like, every call you would get on and be like, okay, so let's talk about this new AI tool that might help your work. Let me show you how to do it. Let me give you my tech stack. Like, I think just the commitment and your commitment to operate in generosity with the folks in your community is. It's real and it's felt and it impacts our work. And so another thing, for me, round two was also of accountability. AED is like, retired. We're busy, we're struggling.
- [35:32]
Rhea Wong
I know that's right.
- [35:33]
Rhonda Allen
But like you, you did, there was. It was a no judgment space where it's like, I could hop in and, you know, bring a problem to the table, workshop it with the group, learn from others, and that's something I need. This work is lonely at times and can be really challenging. So being able to do it in community and to have you as a guide and a partner to us has been really cool.
- [35:51]
Rhea Wong
Oh, thank you, friend. I so appreciate you. And just because I know folks are out here wondering, so when we first started working together, do you remember what your organizational budget size was and where was it afterwards?
- [36:02]
Rhonda Allen
So we were in the 1 to 2 million dollars range when we first started working together. And there have been times in which we've been in the 2 to 3 plus. We're pretty solidly in the 2 to 3 million dollar range now. The thing that I'm really proud of, even as we have stayed in that ballpark, is the way that we've diversified our base. When I first started working. We're 100% reliant on corporate philanthropy for the most part and we flip that in many ways. So deepening foundation relationships, deepening relationships with individuals, family offices, with our own members and community thinking about different revenue models, that's been a part of the work and a part of what has helped us move toward a path of growth and stability over time.
- [36:45]
Rhea Wong
I love that. Rhonda, thank you so much. I'm going to put your information on the show. Notes, notes for folks who want to get in touch with you. But thank you so much for your generosity in being on the pod. I hope all the good things.
- [36:57]
Rhonda Allen
Oh, listen, thank you. Likewise. We appreciate you. I appreciate you. I'm excited to be in touch with anyone who wants to continue.
- [37:05]
Rhea Wong
Thanks so much, Bren.
- [37:06]
Rhonda Allen
Take care.
- [37:07]
Rhea Wong
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