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- [00:00]
Ria Wong
Welcome back to Nonprofit Lowdown. I'm Ria Wong and today you're getting the raw, unfiltered replay of the session I ran with my longtime partner in crime, Brooke Richie Babbage, at AFP's fundraising day in New York. Here's what's inside. Why one clear written give get policy stops the I don't fundraise excuse cold. The skill will 2x2 map we use to sort every board member in 10 minutes flat. Real world tactics board report cards, mini dinner salons and a no guilt off ramp that move even the most reluctant director into action. We also dig into the money stories that keep smart people frozen and the simple questions that flip that script fast. Need backup? Grab the board activation toolkit waiting in the show. Notes, templates, scripts and a quick mindset exercise pulled straight from today's talk. Enough talk. Let's get you a board that raises real money. Roll the tape.
- [00:53]
Brooke Richie Babbage
Foreign.
- [01:00]
Ria Wong
Welcome to Nonprofit Lowdown. I'm your host, Rhea Wong.
- [01:03]
Unknown
So today our plan of action we are going to talk about boards, how to activate them, how to structure them, and why they are not raising money for us. Brooke, before we jump into, do you want to introduce yourself?
- [01:17]
Brooke Richie Babbage
Yes.
- [01:17]
Unknown
Hi everyone.
- [01:18]
Brooke Richie Babbage
I'm really excited about this topic. I will just say before we get started, you may notice Bria and I get along really well. We talk really easily. We're really excited to have this conversation with all of you. We've known each other for over 20 years. We have come up through the nonprofit space together. So my what I do now is I'm the founder and CEO of a strategy social impact strategy firm called Ben here in New York. And and I help nonprofits build infrastructure. So the unsexy stuff that makes your organization strong as you scale. So that's what I focus on. I have been in this space 27 plus years. I just calculated it the other day and that number doesn't make a lot of sense. But I've been in almost every position that you can have. I was a nonprofit founder twice. I was a social justice lawyer. I've been on 22 boards, which is relevant for our conversations in different spaces. I decided early that was a role I wanted to play in the sector. So I'm excited to go to that and most recently as a strategist for big nonprofit.
- [02:21]
Unknown
And I'll quickly introduce myself. I am Rio Wong. I was an executive director here in New York City for 12 and a half years. I have since transitioned into coaching folks in major gift fundraising. So I've worked primarily with executive directors and development directors have a podcast, as does Brooke, an author of get that Money, Honey. And I spend my days thinking, talking, breathing, major gift fundraising. So I'm your girl. But I started my career as a 26 year old. My first two Google searches were what does it do? And how do you fundraise? So I learned from the ground up and made many mistakes. So let's get into it. So, Brooke, let's start with you and the other panelists. Okay, so you've been on a lot of boards. What are the telltale signs that someone is going to be a blocker on the board?
- [03:17]
Brooke Richie Babbage
Like a fundraising blocker? Because there's different kinds of blockers.
- [03:19]
Unknown
That's true. There's a lot of blockage, fundraising blockers.
- [03:23]
Brooke Richie Babbage
I'm going to name three that I think are signals. One is, and. And I actually think this is probably just like adulting in general. An unwillingness to do something that makes them uncomfortable. I think as you talk to board members, whether you're talking about fundraising or growing your board, any sense where people are, this is how I've always done it. Right. Or this is what I've always done. That fixed mindset makes it really hard to get comfortable with all of the things that fundraising entails. I think a second sign for a blocker is anytime someone on the board, hopefully not always just the executive director, brings up a fundraising idea, something they want to try, a program idea, that person is either explicitly or behind the scenes, undermining, Right? Oh, I don't think that's going to work. They're like a Nancy May, Right? I don't see how that's going to work. We don't have the people for that. That's going to take a lot of time. That can make it really tricky. Yeah, actually, those are the two. Just the sort of orientation towards.
- [04:24]
Unknown
Yeah, here's mine. The one who either comes up with a million ideas or says to me, like, why don't we just call Oprah? Or like, why don't we just do that ice bucket challenge? Or like some ridiculous suggestion which really is subtext for I don't actually want to fundraise. I want you to do something ridiculous. Oh, I just thought of another one. Yeah.
- [04:44]
Brooke Richie Babbage
Building on that one, you could go like this. I think, and this is just a really clear one. The number of times I have been a board chair where I have had people say to me as they join the board, just so we're clear, I don't fundraise. Biggest sign that someone's A block. And I know we're going to talk about some misconceptions about what it means to board fundraise, but I think that sense of I am not a fundraiser and I'm just going to put that out there is usually a sign of someone that's going to be a little tough.
- [05:12]
Unknown
Yeah. But in that case, isn't it better that they pay you on the front end as they're joining?
- [05:18]
Brooke Richie Babbage
Maybe I would have preferred before they joined, it comes up first board meeting.
- [05:22]
Unknown
But I actually think that makes an important point because I think often the reason why board members are not activated or motivated to fundraise is you didn't tell them that was part of the job in the first place. So let's talk about recruitment and expectations that it's. What have you found to be effective?
- [05:41]
Brooke Richie Babbage
I think one of the most important things to think about, and I'm going to put on my coach hat for a moment. When we are recruiting board members, we cannot shy away from saying to people, as part of the recruitment process, raising money for the organization is part of what it means to be on this board. And I think that some of my folks, as board chairs or executive directors don't do that, is we are uncomfortable saying to people, we're going to ask you to raise money. And so our discomfort makes us obviously scared. And we say, oh, it'd be so great if you could help us. So I think that expectation needs to be really clear from the beginning. And I said, rhiannon and I will talk about what that means. And fundraising means more than just asking, but that clarity up front. I think the other thing that happens in recruitment, that is tied to structurally making sure your board is set up to fundraise, being really clear about what the fundraising outcomes are for that board, because different people understand things about boards. So if I say fundraising is part of being on the board or raising money is part of being on the board, they might hear, I'm going to ask you to ask all of your friends for $50,000. That's not what I said, but that's what they hear. What we want to do is make it really clear what we do need. So for us, that means we have a give get of blank. We have a give of blank. We have a gala. And you will be expected to blank what these expectations are, saying them up front and being brave. And that means that people who want to support you in other ways but aren't comfortable with that, you know that before they join the board.
- [07:17]
Unknown
Yeah. One of my key Tenants is clear is kind.
- [07:20]
Brooke Richie Babbage
Absolutely.
- [07:21]
Unknown
Either if we're talking about major gift fundraising or board members, call them exactly what the expectation is and allow them to opt out. I think part of qualifying board members, donors, et cetera, is disqualified. So you're not wasting your time with people, ain't never going to do what you need them to do. Just tell me that you're not going to do it and I'm not going to waste my time.
- [07:42]
Brooke Richie Babbage
And one thing that I'll say about that, different folks in the room or at different places with board development and board fundraising in the same way that it is kind and important to be clear that raising money and bringing in resources is part of what it means to be on a board. And I do believe that's true. I think that having other ways for people to structurally support your organization other than being a board member is really important because, and I remember this from when I was growing my organization, I felt like I had two options, right? If somebody wanted to lean in and be more involved, they could either be a volunteer, and I didn't run an organization that had volunteer opportunities, or they could be on the board. And so even if they didn't quite check all the boxes that I wanted them to check, I was so grateful that they wanted to be involved that I was willing to not let them fundraise, not let them do any of those things. And so being able to invite them to other structures, I think can be really important. You can say it doesn't sound like a foreign seat is exactly the right fit. Let's talk about being an advisor. Let's talk about you supporting us in this other way.
- [08:48]
Unknown
Okay, I want to talk about that because I think I will speak to this myself. Desperation sometimes plays a role, right? You have a major donor and you think, oh, you know what, they'd be a great board member. Never mind that they may actually be terrible board members. Never mind that they may not be interested in being board member. And so I think because we can sometimes operate at that scarcity desperation place, we get people on the board that are not ready, not suited culturally, I think also not vetting well enough. So I, having learned the hard way, introduce people I don't know, this is cutting in, introduce people on a committee basis as a test run before inviting them on the board. Because, tell you a little story, I invited someone. So I went through a board recruitment. Recruiter. Board recruiter was great, but we got someone on the board who frankly was not suited to be on the board. He was a pe Guy and he was a bit of an elephant in a china shop. He just. He treated everything like it was like it was private equity situation. And at the time, we were a sub million dollar board. It was like, why are you introducing these crate structures anyway? All to say, learn the hard way that you need to test people out before bringing them on board. And the other thing is, had we tested them out or have tested out some other folks, we would have realized that some people are just dead wood. They're never going to do what you need them to do. Test them out first on a committee. They stuck on a committee. They don't get a board. Can you all hear me without this microphone? No. Okay. Is it cutting in and out for you? Okay. Yeah, maybe. I. Yeah, we like karaoke. It'll be fun.
- [10:37]
Brooke Richie Babbage
So I think the key takeaway from that phase of conversation or section of the conversation is it is okay to say to someone who is a prospective board member during recruitment, board membership may not be the best role for you, the best relationship for us. And having been in the place where I am desperate, I am grateful. I am really looking for people who will be good board members. Sometimes that takes some bravery, but that means that the people who do opt in, they understand what's expected and they want to be there.
- [11:11]
Unknown
Okay. I want to talk tactically about what it means. In my experience and in the nonprofits I've seen, it's usually a small group of people that changes the culture of the board. We like to think that it's the board in general, but it's usually one or two people that over time you can change. So talk to me about change management, Brooke, because often we talk about wanting to change the culture, but I believe that culture is read only. What I mean by that is culture is supported by the policies and the practices and behaviors underneath. You can't just change the culture without changing the way you do the work. So I want to ask you, Brooke, about a change management effort on a board that has either been successful or not successful.
- [11:59]
Brooke Richie Babbage
I have lots of examples of ones that have not been successful. So I'll focus on a few elements of things that have been. The first thing that I'll say is many of the organizations that I coach have at some point in time looked at their board and thought, this is not working. It's not working. And that can be really frustrating. Change doesn't happen overnight. So I tend to talk about soft pivots and hard pivots when we're talking about changing a board. Soft pivots are, as Rhea said, policies, structures that you put in place and that you one at a time talking to individual board members, talking to cohorts of board members, get buy in for. So these might be things like, we are going to shift our board meetings from being court based to being generative, meaning you're going to get all the reports in advance. I'm going to ask you to read them. We're going to have 15 minutes where you get to ask questions, director report, funding report, all the things. And the rest of our 45 minutes, the rest of our two hours together is going to be centered around one or two generative or strategic conversations that are actually relevant. And that's going to be our meeting. So we are not asking board members to sit and receive passively information and then turn around and ask them to engage. So that's a shift that happens over time. That's a soft pivot. Then there are hard pivots. And, you know, being an ED is not for the faint heart. It's really both new in the same way that you have to be really clear before people join the board. An example of a hard pivot is saying to board members, it is June. We are at our June board meeting. Every board meeting up until now, we have done X, right? We have talked about fundraising in this particular way. Starting today, we're doing it differently, Right? We're not organically evolving into a new way of being together. We're not going to take time and relearn some practices. We are going to start using a board agreement. I'm going to ask all of you to review it and sign it. I'm going to meet one on one with you to talk about where you want to lean in, fundraising means to you. I'm going to be reaching out to you this month, those conversations. And starting our next meeting, we're going to be different in this way. And so I think change management is really about combining those soft pivots, those organic process changes that you ask people to relearn with really clear, really explicit. We don't have the time to relearn this particular thing. So we're just going to do it differently starting now. And you can totally opt out. You do not. This doesn't have to be the board for you. I just want to give one metaphor. I talk about this. Anybody who's been in a coaching program with me has heard me say, I love Jim Collins, which great. And his folks smiling. And he talks about this concept of a bus, right? When you are the leader you are driving the bus. And a lot of the coaching that I do is helping people feel comfortable with being the ones driving the bus and being able to say, the bus is green, it is going 60 miles an hour and it's going to Boston. If you want to be on a.
- [15:12]
Unknown
Purple bus, if you want to go.
- [15:14]
Brooke Richie Babbage
Slower or faster, or if you want to go to California, we will find a way for you to get off this bus and get onto a different bus. And you can do that kindly and you can do that firmly, but you have to do it so that when you look at the people on this bus with you, they want to be going to Boston. Right. They want to be going 60 miles an hour. And sometimes that is uncomfortable, but that's what I think change management is about.
- [15:39]
Unknown
Yeah, I'm going to dig into fundraising specifically because this is what I love. So the one thing that I would recommend that you all do, if you haven't yet done this is a two by two. And the two by two is on one axis is skill. On the other axis is will. And I want you to map all of your board members on the skill will axis. This, because here's the thing, if you have no skills but you have will, I can do something with you. If you have skills, but no will, all of the training in the world is not going to help those. And so I believe with boards, you have to pick your battles because often we talk about the board as a monolith, but the truth is they're individual people and you can move certain people at certain pacing. The top three reasons why I think boards typically don't fundraise, one, as we discussed, they don't know that they're supposed to. Right. They haven't been recruited properly. The expectations have not been laid out. So I can't fault someone not knowing what they were signing up for. It's a bait and switch, though. Think about your recruitment processes. Two, they don't actually know what to do. So we. I have made the mistake sometimes of assuming that just because someone is a VP of or whatever, they know how to fundraise. They don't. Right. Just because they do sales doesn't know that they know how to fundraise. Just because they're in marketing doesn't know.
- [17:03]
Brooke Richie Babbage
That they're a wealthy person or a.
- [17:04]
Unknown
Wealthy person doesn't mean that they know how to fundraise. So I think we assume too much. And so when I break down what fundraising is, because you all are fundraisers out here, you know that fundraising is more than solicitation. Your board members don't necessarily know that. They don't know that. It could be cultivation, it could be identification, it could be qualification, it could be making thank you phone calls. That all counts as fundraising. But if they think that fundraising equals solicitation only, then they're actually going to be doing you a disservice because one, they're either going to be paralyzed by that, because who wants to walk up? I think if you have a solicitation first approach, it's going to the bar and asking everyone to marry you. Sure, someone might say yes, but is that the person you really want to marry? They don't understand that there is a process. I think the mistake that we make as fundraisers is we don't make the process transparent to them. And so I think part of it is helping them understand the process of fundraising and where specifically they fit into this. And actually, what I'm going to do is, after this, I will give you my email address. If you want to send me an email, I will send you a board action menu that you can use and customize at will. But even just the act of laying out the process for them is enormously helpful. And then the third thing I'll say as to why I found a lot of board members are resistant to fundraising is that they actually have a lot of drama, trauma and baggage around money. Just because they have money doesn't mean that they don't have trauma regarding money. So I think the mistake that a lot of us might make out here is thinking that one, most people are trustafarians. Couldn't be further from the truth. Most millionaires and up are first generation wealth creators. What I mean by that is that they often have come from humble beginnings. They remember what it was like to come from humble beginnings, and they might have stories about money that are not very helpful. Right. Money is hard to come by. I can't give it away. They probably are intimidated by quote, unquote, rich people. There's always someone richer than you. Right. Always easy to make up a story about what those people are like. And so I think when I really think about the root of fundraising, it's so, so embedded in your mindset about what story am I telling about money and how worthy I am to get it. And so how many of you ever done a training with board members that actually addressed the mindset issue? Yeah, some of us. Okay, so here's another takeaway that y' all can do is for your next board training, think about what it might look like to help your board members surface and articulate some of the stories that they have about money. We all have stories about money. Good, bad, indifferent. Right? We all tell ourselves a story, and often that story keeps us from leaning into what is uncomfortable. And so that is one thing that I think can really shift.
- [20:19]
Brooke Richie Babbage
One last thing I want to add on this topic, just building off of what you said about board members not actually understanding what we mean by fundraising, I think that one of the most transformational conversations I've had with a board that was both about structure and how they spent their time and then ultimately about fundraising, was around affinity mapping. And what we were talking about, and it turned into a conversation about fundraising, was as a board member, one of the things that you do, resource development, another thing that you are supposed to do as a board member, pillars, resource generation, ambassadorship. Right? You want your board members to be out there like you and your team, championing your work. And so I thought we were doing a training around being. We were being an ambassador. And as part of that, I had them create an affinity map, which is, these are the people, not everybody in my network. Right.
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Unknown
We're not.
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Brooke Richie Babbage
I'm not connecting the nonprofit to all of the people I know very specifically. Who are the people in my world who I think would really love what we do here? Right. I have lots of friends in the social impact space. They run animal organizations and water organizations. I'm not an animal person. Right. I give because they ask me to, other than I would never give to an animal organization if I'm on the board of an organization that does youth work. And I know that I have 10 friends that really, their thing is animals. They're not going to be good fundraising prospects. So the affinity map was really about helping board members to say, at the core, we are asking to be an ambassador. We are asking you to raise money from people that you believe and you understand will have an affinity for this work. And helping them see their network through that lens means that when you then start talking about, okay, who are we going to invite to the cultivation event? Who are we going to ask you to host dinners with? We aren't asking you to go to all the people on your squash team. We're asking you to think through the lens of who on your squash team might give a shit about this, and then let's talk about how they connect. So I just wanted you asking about tactics. I think there are really concrete conversations you can have with your board about what it means to be on the board and how you're going to ask them to be out in the world. And I think an affinity. And I will share our email address at the end. We have really great tools for these.
- [22:48]
Unknown
On that note, too, I think one of the other areas of resistance that I find that board members don't want to introduce you to people is because they fear that you are going to get an introduction and hit up that person for money. And it is very often because for these folks, and I'm sure for you as well, your reputation is the most valuable thing that you have. And so as a. I'm also a board member, the last thing I want is to introduce a dear friend and then have that friend loop back at the next cocktail party, like, oh, Brooke. Just like aggressively asking for money. Like, why would. Very well. And so I think part of it is, as fundraisers, we have to make transparency parent to our board members. What we intend to do, lay it out. Because I don't want to be embarrassed, just like you don't want to be embarrassed.
- [23:37]
Brooke Richie Babbage
They may not say that to you.
- [23:39]
Unknown
Some of them, New York City, let's not do. But they want to preserve their relationships just like you want to preserve the relationship. So being very clear with them, look, an introduction does not equal a solicitation. An introduction is simply, we're going to meet with them to gauge their interest, and if they're not interested, we will bless and release them. We're not the Mafia. We're not trying to like with their arms to be in the family. I just want to know if there are people out here who don't yet know about us, who might like to be engaged with us.
- [24:13]
Brooke Richie Babbage
That's right.
- [24:14]
Unknown
Okay, let's talk about accountability. I did a brilliant interview with the incomparable Rich Berlin here in New York. He has probably, probably one of the best boards in the city. And one of the things he instituted, which I thought was brilliant, is a board report card. Now, he has a bunch of finance guys on his board, so they're very gold star oriented, let's say that.
- [24:40]
Brooke Richie Babbage
But I had a bunch of lawyers on mine also.
- [24:42]
Unknown
Very gold, very gold star. They want to win. And so one of the things that I think we can think about is how do we build in mechanisms of account? And accountability is like such an unfun word, right? Accountability. How do we measure? Did you do the things that you said that you were going to do? Now, to be clear, I don't think that everyone should have the same thing necessarily on their report card, because each board member has a difference of circumstances. Some may be on as subject matter experts, some may be on for introductions to networks, et cetera, et cetera. I think there's some common things around the give get, by the way, give and get. Just to be clear, there's an and there not an or things like coming to board meetings, participating in the annual events, introducing networks. So talk to me a little bit about accountability structures.
- [25:34]
Brooke Richie Babbage
One of my favorite frameworks for accountability. And I'll just say personality wise, I don't mind the word accountability. That was always my thing. I'm just going to shoot you straight. And I have found that sometimes that word feels a little like, aggressive for some people. So the framework that I started to use on my board and that I've used as a chair is one called trust for Action. And I actually learned this. I started my career as an organizer. I learned this back when I was doing community lawyering work. A lot of times we think about the people on our staff or the people on our board. We use work words like for family. So I think what we mean when we say that is we want to like the people we're on the board with. We want them to like each other, we want them to like us. I think that's wonderful and not actually necessary to achieve the goal of your organization. So the framework that I use when bringing my board along around accountability's Trust for Action. And I listened to the podcast Malcolm Gladwell, maybe Adam might have been. It wasn't. Anyway, I'll find it and include it in the toolkit. But it was a story about four astronauts and they went into space together. They talked about how they trusted one another with their lives, but they weren't necessarily friends. They didn't hang out outside of work, but they said they would literally trust their lives in the other people's house hands. And when asked why, they talked about this idea of trust for action that we as humans tend to talk about trust for liking, right? I trust this person, I like this person. I want to spend time with them. And that serves a purpose in a family, in a community where the end goal is we have to trust one another with our lives, right? That's what families do. Trust for Action says we may or may not like one another. That's irrelevant. But we can move to action together, right? We have the interstitial tissue to create some end goal together. That's what your organization is trying to do, right? That's why your board is there. That's what you're trying to move to action together. And the principles of trust for action are the same as accountability. You want the people on your board to look at one another and their four principles. I will include this in resources if you email me. The first principle is, I believe that we're all here for the same end goal. We get the mission. We want the same thing. Right? I can look around and I trust that. I trust that we are all equally committed, not that we demonstrate our commitment in the same way. We give the same amount necessarily. Not that we can show up exactly the same way. But I trust because of conversations we've, etcetera, that my 95% is your 95%. Right. I trust that we share organizational values, the same values of this organization. So there are things about how we are moving together that we trust and can rely on. And when those things are true, you will have a board that will lean in and that will move to action together. And so, as you think about accountability, I love a board report card. Every board of them on where I have questions, say, has a report card, has a tracker, has an agreement, right? And the reason that those things work and don't feel transactional and creepy is because they are rooted in this. In a conversation or set of conversations where you say to board members, we need some way to keep track of and to show one another that we're all in this together. As a board, how do we want to do that? We need all of you to look around and trust that you have the same organizational values. Right. That your 95% is this person's 95%. So as a board, let's figure out what we need to see from one another, know that those things are true. That's what accountability is. What do I need to see from you to know that you're doing the thing you say you're going to do. And so some boards come up with a board report, a report card. I've been on boards where really every meeting we've met every other month, smaller. I tend to be on smaller boards as well as bigger ones. The conversations are, name one way you connected to the mission in the last two months, and for that board, that's what they needed to see from another. So what I would say, as you're thinking about accountability, it's absolutely critical and it will look different for different boards. And it is a conversation to have with your board rooted in this trust for action. What do we need to see from one another so that we can move to action together?
- [30:10]
Unknown
Beautiful. Just to add on a couple of things, you get what you tolerate. And so I think because we come from a place of we're not going to be able to find a rubber. We put up with some bad behavior that I think sucks the energy out of our souls a little bit. If I have to send 10 fricking emails for you to do the thing like this is not a good use of my time and energy. Right. Amen. And I'm not going to say it's easy out here. I know it's not. But the ideal situation is you want the board to manage themselves. Your board chair job is to manage the board, y'. All. That is actually their job. And so if you have nothing else, it's the. What is the fish rods from the head.
- [30:58]
Brooke Richie Babbage
Yeah.
- [30:58]
Unknown
If you don't actually have strong board chair, it's going to be very. My board completely changed when I had a strong board chair who actually gave a damn, who actually held people to account, who actually met with me on a regular basis and talked about the work. Right. So I think if you have a board that is not super duper active, try at least to have a very good board chair because your board chair can help you to move the board through. And if you need to fire people, you gotta fire people. You love them out the door, but you get them off my damn board. Yeah. Because I don't want to talk to you because the work is too important. You will. What you're doing is too important to waste time chasing people. Am I right? Thank you. The job is hard enough. You don't need to make it harder with board members who are not responsive to you. And look, their hearts can be in the right place and they could be the most well intentioned people in the world. But you have things you need to do and you do not have time for mediocrity. Am I right? Okay. So do not tolerate mediocrity. That's one thing. And then the second thing I'll add here is I think we also sometimes make the mistake of thinking that because we have really close relationship with individual board members, they know each other. And I don't think that's true. In fact, I'm on a board myself and I see these people like one supporter in person actually less because we do virtual board. And I'm like, I don't really know these. So if I don't know them, I don't necessarily. I don't dislike them, but I don't know them. I don't trust them necessarily in the way that I could. So think about the know, like trust Factor like, how are you building in on purpose, intentional ways for board members to actually get to know each other so that they can actually be cohesive as a team, because it's a team sport. Otherwise, you just have a lot of random cats that you're hurting. So I think that's what I want to say. Is that all I want to say? Is there anything else I want to say?
- [33:03]
Brooke Richie Babbage
Two other things.
- [33:04]
Unknown
Oh, of course you do.
- [33:05]
Brooke Richie Babbage
The first thing that I want to say is I think at the root of a lot of challenges we have, and I will speak for myself as I've grown, is we. I keep talking about being grateful. What I will say to all of you guys is that the strongest boards that I've seen have board chairs and executive directors that understand that they deserve to have board members who want to do the work. And this sense of we are so grateful underlying that is not necessarily an explicit we don't deserve, but that thank you so much for seeing the value in the work we're doing and for agreeing to come to board members board meetings. And we're so happy. But if we flip that and say no, but we're doing really good work that we believe in, and we deserve to have board members who don't have to have their teeth pulled.
- [33:57]
Unknown
Right.
- [33:57]
Brooke Richie Babbage
We deserve our work, our kids, our communities, deserve people who raise their hand and say, how can I help you execute this mission? So I just wanted to build on what Ria was saying, and the mindset shift of what we deserve, what the organization deserves, is translated through the board. The other thing that I will say about accountability, and I started off by saying that a board is not a family. I think that I have seen a lot of organizations shy away from and EDs and board chairs shy away from adding some of these structures that RI and I are talking about, because it feels transactional. Yeah. It feels like we're taking this community of people that love the mission. We're adding this bureaucracy, the structure, this thing that makes it feel not like how we're supposed to feel in our sector. I'm going to suggest a gentle reframe that structure and clarity are how the work gets done. And there is a crappy way to add structure. There is a transactional way to add structure and to be clear, and then there is a way that says, wait, we all care about this mission. We love this work. What's the most efficient, effective way for us to work together as a team? Oh, we all have to know what our roles are. So we're going to write them down. We all have to know what we can expect from one another. So we're going to have a board agreement. There is a way to take these tactics and. And make them feel yucky, or there's a way, and I believe this all has to be done in conversation with your board. There's a way to say we need the structure we need so that we can have the impact we all are saying we want to have. And if you talk about it that way, it allows you to maybe start having some of the conversations with your board about accountability that don't feel like you are violating some sort of unspoken rule about how we're supposed to be in community with one another.
- [35:57]
Unknown
Okay, I'm gonna add some chocolate here to Brooks. Peanut butter. No, I think that's right. I think discipline is freedom. So I also don't want y' all to forget the Disney moment.
- [36:09]
Brooke Richie Babbage
Yeah.
- [36:10]
Unknown
Has anyone ever been to Disneyland or Disney World? Okay, I'm gonna call on you. Disney has made their whole brand on the Magic Kingdom, Right? Those of us who've been, we remember. Some of us remember long lines and it being very sticky and expensive and hot, but scandals and also those things. And also the emotional experience of going to Disney is one of awe, one of magic. These people are on your board because they're looking for magic. Most of them have soulless corporate jobs that suck. Can I be real with you? Like, they have, they're like hogs in a machine. And they want something bigger. They want to be part of something. They want that Disney magic. And so one of the things that Krishna and I were talking about, whether you like it or not, we're all in customer service, whether they are your donors, your board members, your funders, et cetera. And by the way, we often forget this. Our board members are usually our biggest donors. But because they're in the family, we take them for granted. Like, we just complain about the fact that because they're in the mafia, because they're insiders, we take them for granted, but we forget that they, too, need the magic. They need to remember why they fell in love with us in the first place. And so I think there's always an opportunity for a mission moment. Right? So at the beginning of your board meetings, I always used to bring a kid in to talk about this thing that happened. And this is so amazing. Maybe, sure. Your board members come to your programs to remember why they fell in love in the first place, because at the end of the day, they're not paid. They're volunteers. So what are they? What's the value that they get in return for their time? Because their time is valuable and their network is precious. How are we giving them something that they can feel good about? How can we provide something of value? And I'll say one last thing, and, you know, we want to move on. Is anyone here a Star wars fan? Harry Potter? Hunger Games? Game of Thrones? Okay, the reason I ask is there's a dude named Joseph Campbell who wrote about this thing called the Hero's Journey, right? So all of these big epic stories, you, Rebecca, are based on the Hero's Journey, which is simply this. There is a hero, Luke Skywalker. By the way, I'm going to ruined this. So if you don't know, this has happened all 40 years too late. So Luke Skywalker is living in his little farm on Tatooine, and it comes to his attention that he is actually a Jedi. He has the voice of the Jedi. At first, he refuses the call to adventures. I know I'm just going to live on this little farm in Tatooine. But then the Empire blows up his farm, kills his aunt and uncle, and he's called to adventure, right? Because I have no choice but to go and strike back at the Empire. Along the way, he meets Obi Wan Kenobi and Yoda, who are his mentors. They mentor him to then become a Jedi. Then he achieves the victory, and then he returns to his normal life as a Jedi. Is this all sounding familiar? If you don't know that this happens, and I'm sorry to run this for you, the point of it all, and this is also true in the intrigue of fundraising, is the mistake we often make is that we talk about ourselves and our work at the organization as the Luke Skywalker, we did this. We did this. Look at our brand new staff member. We have a new program, aren't we? What can I do but just say good job? Everyone is looking to be Luke Sky Skywalker of their own story. Everyone is looking for the magic. Everyone is looking for the purpose and to be on their own mission. And so the shift that I want you all to think about is, how are you the Yoda? How are you the Obi Wan Kenobi to your board member story to allow them the victory that they see, which then helps them to tell the story that they want to tell themselves when they lay their head down in the pillow at night. Why do they give to your organization? They give because they want to believe something about who they are as a person. They Want, meaning they want legacy. They want belonging. Your mission is to find out what is the thing that they want and help give it to them. Because the more you can give them the thing that they seek, the more loyal they will be to you. So I think the mistake that we make, aside from thinking that we're Luke Skywalkers, is we don't ask the question of our members, what is it that you want? What mission are you on? What are you seeking? What value can I provide for you and how do we do this together?
- [41:06]
Brooke Richie Babbage
And then you write it down, the crux of this board agreement that Bria and I have mentioned. You have that conversation and you say, great, this is what we understand. And you bring that back, back through your board report card or your tracker. And that again, is how it's not transactional. My son plays soccer, and what I love about most team sports, but soccer in particular is every single person on the field has a very specific role. And they don't do the things that the other people in a field do. There's so many, I can't even mention them, like the striker and the rear striker, and I don't know what they do. But it is important to note that's how your board is. Right. And so part of what you're doing as the YONA is saying, what role do you want to play on this field? And let's make sure that you can do that.
- [41:54]
Unknown
Keep them on the mission. Should we open it up for kids, Rolly? Thanks. All right. Okay, there's the mic here. Oh, oh, there's a second mic. Fantastic. We have a mic. Hi. Thank you. Hi.
- [42:06]
Brooke Richie Babbage
Hi.
- [42:06]
Unknown
So I know you mentioned don't tolerate ei, so I want to start. Sometimes there's questions. I wonder if others have the same burning question, you know, as fundraisers, whether you're mid level, entry level, senior level, you find yourself chasing board members and you understand that they're doing understand that like you just mentioned Maria, they need to be connected to mission and connect it to their why over and over again. But one of the things that I struggle over with and I'm going to be very transparent and very direct, is that.
- [42:38]
Brooke Richie Babbage
Okay, please first.
- [42:39]
Unknown
So I as I was sitting there as a hero digression. But if anyone remembers it from that generation. Anyway, so digression. But I think we're always looking for that hero on the board or someone to kind of take that lead. What we're not realizing is that as board members ask staff every email exchange, like we said, the 10 emails that we Send. It's wasted time. It's a lack of roi. And as board members, I expect my board to understand that we have a mission to accomplish. We have one year to accomplish the.
- [43:13]
Brooke Richie Babbage
Goals that we need to accomplish.
- [43:15]
Unknown
Why do I find. Why do I find that the last seven to eight nonprofits I work for. Most of my job as a senior fundraiser is chasing down my board members to do things that the board chair has already asked. The ED has asked them. How do I mitigate? I have a certain voice. My voice is not quite there yet. And leverage that quote, unquote, for lack of a better term, that power to push me forward. Yep. Using a lot of words to fill a very simple question. Yep. But it's how do we move board members forward without kicking them off? I have thoughts.
- [43:59]
Brooke Richie Babbage
Yeah.
- [43:59]
Unknown
Okay. So two things that I would recommend. One, I need all of you to erase the word help from your vocabulary because help implies that you are in an inferior position. You need to come into the relationship on your feet, not on your knees. And. And so I would recommend that you replace. Thank you. Yep. Replace the word help with. Take responsibility for. What are you taking responsibility for in this process? What are you taking responsibility for in sending these emails? So the. I believe the way you talk about something influences the way you think about it. So take responsibility for something. The second thing is, if you don't already have an annual review of some sort, I would recommend doing that. And it doesn't be heavy duty. Right. It's a. Maybe it's your board chair. Maybe it's the nominating and governance committee. They do a check in every year with every board member. Hey, we have a report card. Wanted to check in on the progress right now. Sometimes things happen. Like, sometimes people go through a busy time and they're like, oh, I feel so guilty. Blah, blah, blah. I've been having health issues. We understand that. But I do think the question should be asked. Like, hey, seems like there were some attendance issues this year. Is this the right time for you to be on the board? And it doesn't have to be punitive and awful. I think asking the question, because more than anything, they probably feel really guilty about it. Like they know they needed to be doing something and they didn't do it. And no one likes to feel like they're failing. So I think allowing people to save face and gently let them be off ramp is the kind thing to do. And then I would also say the final thing is make a big effing deal over people who did the thing that you want them to do. It's like when I was teaching you never call out the kids who were doing the bad thing. You called out because you were doing the good thing. Oh, I see Bobby has his pencil on the table. That's great. Oh, are we getting our book back like little Julie is doing that? And so at board meetings, I would make it a point to celebrate people who were doing the things I needed them to do because no one wants them.
- [46:20]
Brooke Richie Babbage
Yeah, I would say. And one of the things that we'll include in the resources, I have a private podcast where I walk through the response to that question. What do you do to actually activate board members? I'll make sure to include it. But the three part framework that I recommend is for every campaign or event or fundraising goal you have, make sure it's really clear with board members what the goal is and why that goal. Right. We are raising $250,000, not fuzzy, generally. We're raising $250,000. So that organization is healthy. This is what this 250 will support. This is the role it plays in our budget. And if we don't get there, there's a consequence. So really make sure people hear you and understand the why behind the specific amount of money. Because to Ria's point, if I'm coming to board meeting every quarter and I'm seeing numbers, I hear you that they're important. But then I go back to my job and I'm not thinking about the numbers. So they have to, when they think about that 250, understand its salary, understand this strategic plan we have doesn't work without this specific money. So that's the first thing. What's the reason? Second is the realest point. The question, what role will you play in getting us there? Not how will you help? We are raising $250,000 in the next seven months. What role can I expect you to play? That is a very targeted question. And it also opens the door for them to be honest with you in saying smaller role this year, bigger role. So this is what we're doing. This is why? What role will you play? And then the third question that I think is really helpful in helping us just understand where board members are. What do you need from my team so that you can own the thing you said you're going to own? Do you not understand how to talk about why we're raising the 250? Do you need talking points? Do you need an email draft? What do you need? Not how can you help me get us there? You said you're going to do this thing. What can I give you? And then once I give that to you, my expectation is you're going to do the thing you said you're going to do. Which also means when you are following up, you're not following up with just checking in. Hey, what's happening with the thing you're saying? We had a conversation about you doing this. I sent you the things. Great. Where are you in your process? It subtly shifts that ownership. So I think that sort of step process seen be really effective.
- [48:42]
Unknown
One last thing, you don't want your board members to only hear from you when you need them to do something. They will ignore your email. Don't only contact them to be a taskmaster. So one thing I used to do is every Friday I would send three bullets of like here's what happened this week. That's really great. That does two things. One, it reminds them of the magic. Two, they literally see my name once a week in their inbox. It doesn't have to be fancy. Literally three bullet points. And it then conditions. You're like, oh, I might be hearing something fun or I might be getting a task. But if it's only ever a task, like no one wants to eat only broccoli. You got to throw some dessert in there too. So mix it up.
- [49:28]
Brooke Richie Babbage
Another version of that I used to do is a bi weekly dashboard. So I had a conversation with the board that last question. What do you guys need so that you feel connected, you feel able to be ambassadors? And we had five categories. They're like, you need to see what comfort, like what's your thought leadership? Where are you at in the world? What kinds of things that you're writing can I share with people? We need to understand money in, money out. Right. There were five things and then every two weeks I had a standard dashboard template. The time it was like Ben, the gauge I think I used at the time. But it was just I slotted in my in numbers. I got the data from my team and every two weeks they got this like really beautiful visual high level. Here's where we are. Here's an article I thought you would think was really interesting. I spoke at this conference. Here's clip. So that they're getting this constant sort of inspiration points. I would use that to do a shout out for a board member so that there are ways that you can show up in their lives that are both fueling them and then laying foundation for engagement.
- [50:30]
Unknown
Yeah, I'm way lazier than Brooke, so.
- [50:32]
Brooke Richie Babbage
No, no, I will Say it was maybe like a 15 minute thing. Like it doesn't.
- [50:37]
Unknown
I'm chatgpt now in canva. No excuses.
- [50:39]
Brooke Richie Babbage
Absolutely. All right.
- [50:41]
Unknown
Any other questions? Yeah, sorry, a lady with the. And then we'll go. Yeah. And then David from a roadblock, what to do with a board member who runs your nominating committee has a hard time not projecting his experience as a.
- [50:59]
Brooke Richie Babbage
Multi generation or they're not out.
- [51:04]
Unknown
Well, can I. Yeah.
- [51:05]
Brooke Richie Babbage
So my question, my first question for you is, does your organization have a written give get policy? So I think that's an easy low hanging fruit fix. Right. Part of why he's inserting his narrative is because that's the only narrative. Right. So is the board. If you agree, then he's going to have to do that or you have a way to say to him, but we all agreed on this thing and you're saying this other thing.
- [51:31]
Unknown
Yeah, I don't know. My, my response is, does he have other billionaire homies? I'm about that. You want to come and bring your billionaire friends? Let's talk. So the other thing that I would do with this homie is have him host some dinners on your behalf. Because I. He won't host.
- [51:53]
Brooke Richie Babbage
So remember our first question. What are indicators of blockers?
- [51:57]
Unknown
But here's the other thing. And y', all, I did do a podcast on this about small, intimate dinners. You say you won't host, but what does that mean exactly in terms of. Wait, let me. Because often we ask people to host dinners, they hear solicitation. I'm not talking about solicitation. I'm talking about if anyone has ever heard of the Jeffersonian dinner model, small dinner salons where you're simply opening up the relationship. People love showing off their fancy houses. They love knowing that this is not an ask. I'm not going to ask anyone for anything.
- [52:36]
Brooke Richie Babbage
Get.
- [52:37]
Unknown
Right. I am simply wanting to meet people to see if there's a there there. So there's a very specific format that we use for this model. And then 24 to 48 hours later, you then carry the relationship forward. So all you need is that warm handshake. Is he willing to do that?
- [52:55]
Brooke Richie Babbage
Do that.
- [52:56]
Unknown
Done.
- [52:57]
Brooke Richie Babbage
There we go.
- [52:58]
Unknown
Put in a lot of specific things you can do.
- [53:02]
Brooke Richie Babbage
Earlier you mentioned Ria money. Could you talk just a little bit more about that?
- [53:08]
Unknown
I literally love talking about money and money mindset. In fact, I will also, if you send me an email, I'll give you the free chapter of my book that has to do with the money mindset. But I typically started off with a couple of things. One, how does it feel when people ask you to fundraise and you're like, oh, it feels weird. Feels frustrating. I feel rejection. Okay, cool. Question 2. How do you feel when giving to something that you truly love? Oh, I feel great. It feels, like, so amazing. Blah, blah, blah. Okay, question three. Why do we think that experience would be different for other people? And just that shift, Just, oh, yeah, because I'm projecting all my stuff about money onto my friend's family work. Then I do a little presentation around where money baggage comes from. It's often four areas. It's generational trauma. So particularly folks from. From communities that have been traditionally marginalized. There are epigenetics. Like, for example, people who are descendants of Holocaust survivors have. Have health outcomes that are worse than the general public, even though they themselves did not live through the Holocaust. Because our trauma is transmitted through DNA. There's relational trauma. There's our caretakers, our community, our friends and family. Third is societal trauma and is policy trauma. And I think when people understand that the stuff that they carry, the stories that they carry about money, actually didn't come from them, and actually our survival mechanisms for surviving in this capitalist society, I think it opens up a whole conversation. And so what I then invite them to do is ask questions in small groups. What did you hear in your family growing up about money? I heard, oh, money doesn't grow on trees. The Rockefeller. What did you see in your family? What did you emotionally experience in your family? In my family, when I saw my parents fight, it was usually about money. Right. So my experience of money, oh, it makes people fight. There's a real tension there. And how does your experience of money affect your comfort level with fundraising? And it's often the first time they've ever considered such a thing. And so I find doing it in small groups is helpful because they can get really deep with it, and they're usually aha moments. Not aha. It's usually, oh, I didn't even realize that I had all of this narrative about money that had nothing. Like, has nothing to do with actually fundraising, but everything to do with my own background. It's a very detailed answer. Is that home? Okay. I have a free chapter of my book called Money Mindset, which I will send to you free. So I'm just gonna. I'll share my email. Brooke will share her email. If you could just put AFP in the subject line, just so I remember, like, why you're emailing me. So I'm Riawong.com R H E A@Riawong.com can be easier.
- [56:19]
Brooke Richie Babbage
Oh great. My name is brooke@brooke@brookerichyvavage.com okay, we got two minutes.
- [56:26]
Unknown
One more question. No-all Brooklyn G banners. Yeah. Ria Rio. And hang out a little bit afterwards so, you know, don't be stressed. Yes, please. There's an ointment for that. What if your board chair is the biggest impediment to creating a fundraising culture in the board chair personally. Very generous. But refuses to. Refuses to or just have a barrier against that.
- [56:58]
Brooke Richie Babbage
Yeah.
- [56:59]
Unknown
Accountability for the entire. Yeah, it's a good question. Two reactions to that. One is are they. Oh, don't go anywhere. Are they open to delegating it over to a development committee? Oh, okay. That's all right. Then my second point. Right. Okay, so here's my other. You need to start the rebel army. Yeah. No, I don't think it has to be confrontational, but I do think what I've done is. So board change happens slowly over time. It doesn't happen or not. In fact, it took me six years to get the board I finally wanted because I had to transition people up into big egos, like very delicate. So I would create a little bit bit of a group around people who actually do stuff because they often want to be around people who do stuff. That's the other thing. No one wants to be around a bunch of slackers. I would recruit cohorts.
- [58:10]
Ria Wong
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