← Nonprofit Lowdown
Loading summary
Transcript76 lines
- [00:00]
A
Hey you, It's Rhea Wong.
- [00:02]
B
If you're listening to nonprofit Load On, I'm pretty sure that you'd love my weekly newsletter. Every Tuesday morning, you get updates on.
- [00:09]
A
The newest podcast episodes.
- [00:10]
B
And then interspersed, we have fun special invitations for newsletter subscribers only and fundraising inspo because I know what it feels like to be in the trenches alone.
- [00:19]
A
On top of that, you get cute dog photos.
- [00:21]
B
Best of all, it is free. So what are you waiting for? Head over to riawong.com now to sign up.
- [00:27]
A
Foreign.
- [00:34]
B
Welcome to nonprofit Lowdown.
- [00:36]
A
I'm your host, Rhea Wong. Hey, podcast listeners, it's Rhea Wong with you once again with nonprofit Lowdown. Today I'm excited to invite my friend and guest, Tisha Heider. Tisha is a senior vice president. She is also on the nonprofit team. She has had a long history in philanthropy and also being a I love this term slay at home mom. That was so fun. But today we're going to talk about something that I am so bullish about, which is the prime time woman. So, Tisha, welcome to the show.
- [01:10]
C
Thank you. Thanks so much for inviting me, Ray. I love the show and I'm really excited to have a conversation today.
- [01:17]
A
Excellent. Okay. Okay. So I'm just gonna give folks a little bit of context. We met at the AFP day in New York City. You were so kind. You came up to me and told me that you listened to the podcast, which is so fun.
- [01:29]
C
I fangirled is what I did.
- [01:31]
A
All fans welcome, of course. But you and I got into a conversation because you have some really interesting background professionally, but also personally. And one of the things I have been really thinking about a lot recently is this idea of the primetime woman. Let's define this a little bit. Primetime women are women between the ages of, let's say, 45 to 65. They're at a point in their lives where they've done raising their kids, they've climbed the corporate ladder, they did what they were going to do, and now they're really thinking about the next step in their lives. A lot of folks talk about with the new beginnings. I know you Talk about your Q3. The reason this is relevant is that this is the most philanthropic group that the world has ever seen.
- [02:17]
C
Absolutely.
- [02:17]
A
So I want to dig into this because, Tisha, you are also a prime time woman. So if you would give us a little bit of context about what your background and what brought you to this point of being the primetime woman.
- [02:31]
C
Yeah, thank you. I love that title of being a primetime woman. At this point, I Feel like I've earned it. And over my career of about 30 years, the first 10 years were in sales and marketing. The next little bit was I thought I wanted to be a stay at home mom, but then I was never at home, so I became a slay at home mom. So I was working in the community, helping, using my sales and marketing skills to help nonprofits that we really cared about, say the children's museum or even our church, find ways in which they could focus on financial health. And from that, I actually realized that this is the nonprofit world. And so I had a more formal entry into it. And I've spent the last 15 years or so working in it formally. So it's been a wonderful way in which I could use something that's actually really important to me from my heart to call it a profession. So I feel very lucky to do, and I feel also very lucky to be a primetime woman. I don't take it for granted that I arrived here, and I really thought that when I turned 50 a few years ago, it was a really perfect time to consider it like a halftime. Go into the locker room and work with the coach, whether that was myself or a professional coach or a therapist, and really figure out what I'd like to do, how I'd like to play out the rest of the game, and understanding how to leverage this. I would say boldness that comes with age has been a really dynamic part of getting older.
- [04:22]
A
I love that so much. And actually, you and I spoke earlier. I think as we get older, we just. We are out of Fs to give. Like, we just don't care anymore. We're not concerned about other people's opinions anymore.
- [04:37]
C
Yeah. Gloria Steinem has a quote, or there's a quote from her that says women get more radical with age. And it is absolutely true. I love I have it on a T shirt. I love wearing it just to put myself out there. Yeah, come at me, bro.
- [04:54]
A
Yeah. You know what I love, too, is I travel a fair bit. And when I see women as the frontier femme d' un sautenage, out there with their girlfriends, drinking cocktails and having the best time, I'm like, yes, that is the primetime woman. And I am there. I am feeling all of that because the primetime woman, I think, is really focused on herself at this stage in her life. And so if I can use you as a case study of one, I would like to talk a little bit about moving into this, the Q3, Q4 of life. And I think this is the time when people are really starting to think about purpose and meaning. And so I'm curious how this stage of life has changed your ideas about philanthropy and legacy building.
- [05:43]
C
Absolutely. Let's start with legacy building. It's really when you have this reflective moment, you really do look at how do I want to be remembered? How do, what would my loved one say at a memorial service for me? And having those types of really deep and intense conversations with yourself make you look around and say, okay, what are the causes that are really important to me and how can I double down on my support of them, especially during times like these? And I think that when I look at just how I reacted to building a legacy or leaving a legacy, it was really important that philanthropy was a huge part of it. I grew up as a kid who didn't have much. In fact, I would go across the street from my school for breakfast every morning and eat there. And one day someone said to me, do you have a coat? And I said, no. And so they went and got me this peach coat with a furry collar and oh, I can still feel the warmth of that coat. That's when I first learned about philanthropy and the power of just being, just loving your brother, the true definition of that. And I realized that I have been blessed in so many ways and so I don't take any of it for granted. I want to make sure that I care for those future 8 year old versions of myself that are out there and that need the support that I received.
- [07:25]
A
That's a beautiful story. Thank you for sharing that.
- [07:27]
C
Absolutely.
- [07:28]
A
So as we're thinking about engaging the primetime woman, my sense is, and I'll use myself as a Data point of 1. I'm at a point in my life where I don't have a lot of time, I don't have a lot of tolerance for bs and I'm going to double down and go deep on the causes that are really important to me. But the causes that are really important to me are also causes that I want to engage with. Not just in terms of writing a check, but also that use my skills.
- [07:57]
C
Absolutely.
- [07:57]
A
Take my perspective into consideration. So when you think about, first of all, does that resonate with kind of where you are at with your time?
- [08:05]
C
Absolutely. Yeah. Women are more likely to have like experiential philanthropy. For example, I was on the board of a domestic violence shelter here in D.C. and part of the way I felt like I was giving was just by being there when they did intake and sitting with the kids and reading books while their parents were able to work with the attorneys. And so that's the way in which we show up. We want to be a part of the work that we support in some way, shape, or form.
- [08:41]
A
So talk to me about this, because I think what I see also being true is that primetime women have very strong social networks. They have their girlfriends. And if, say, for example, a girlfriend says, hey, can you support this thing? I'm all in. Right. I'm there because my girlfriend asked me, and I trust my girlfriends. But I also think on the flip side, especially with this environment and being so loud, it's very hard to both capture the attention and earn the trust of a primetime woman. So talk a little bit about if I'm a nonprofit and I'm like, tisha, I know y' all are out there.
- [09:18]
C
Yeah.
- [09:19]
A
How do I get you to pay attention to me?
- [09:22]
C
Yeah. And so if you were a nonprofit that was trying to appeal to me, it would be important to have evidence of your impact. So tell me stories about what you really do and the lives that you change and the work that's being supported with my funds, and then be very transparent. Help me understand what your needs are and what you could do if you had X amount more and not just X amount more money, but even just time or resources. I think there's this connectivity that is very important to women. And especially as we get older, we're really filtering out those that we don't have those connections with, which includes nonprofit organizations. So you may have given to every cause that sent an envelope in the mail or every cause that came up on your phone to text for political campaigns, but now I think we're a little bit more discerning with how we give, because it does. I think it is. It becomes more in alignment with our ethos, our who we are as a person and the way it ties back to that legacy.
- [10:41]
A
So, as someone coming from marketing, I'm curious about this. One of the things I've been advising my clients on is segment and start to speak specifically to the primetime woman. Because I think, at least in my experience, they're the ones who are giving most generously. They're the ones who show up for your things. They're the ones that, if they are in a couple, tend to be the ones making philanthropic decisions. And would you advise a nonprofit to segment out for the nonprofit or for the primetime woman and think about messages that resonate for them specifically?
- [11:14]
C
Yeah. In fact, the women's philanthropy institute in Indiana had a report about this, just about the trends with women and philanthropy. And we're just more. More likely to give in community. And so you see giving circles, giving groups, women's funds, they're on the rise. And when you are able to tap into the female donor and really make sure that your story, the case for support for your nonprofit resonates, that's really key. Having someone specifically invite me to a tea at the Hillwood estate here, this beautiful mansion here in D.C. i would love to do that. That's something that's different than maybe the chicken dinner or the corporate breakfast. Those are things that anyone can do. But I want to be courted and have that connection with your organization.
- [12:17]
A
What I also hear you say is you want it to feel special, Right? Yeah. I invite you to a very unique venue, which you would not necessarily go to on your own. It gives you a reason to show up versus, like, the rubber chicken dinner or the corporate breakfast.
- [12:33]
C
Yeah.
- [12:34]
A
Which also makes a strong point I've been trying to make for a while, which is the big gala is dead. I don't know a single person who is like, you know what I really want to do? I really want to go to a big gala and get the rubber chicken dinner and have someone talk at me for two hours. That's what I'd love to see. Okay.
- [12:49]
C
I have to confess, I love getting dressed up in gowns and putting my lashes on and wearing the shoes and going to the galas for a few hours. Not necessarily for the food, but for just the fun, the specialness of that. However, I agree. I don't think it's the most effective way of building relationships because you're sitting there in a room, a large room, and you're not really making that connection that you would have. And so there are other ways in which you can really connect with prospective or actually even current donors. By creating gatherings that are smaller, by providing perhaps even educational opportunities. More women are. Are creating DAFs than men these days. I think the number is, like, double. So men are like 1 1/2 percent, and women are actually close to 4%. And how they're opening up deaths. And so there's a need for education and how to give at the next level. And so providing opportunities like that would be really important.
- [14:04]
A
Oh, that's such an interesting point that you make, because I do think we're seeing women make tremendous gains in terms of we haven't fully closed the wage gap yet, but we're right. We're getting closer. We're seeing women who are financially independent, and yet I think a real blind spot in a lot of our education is how to give money away responsibly.
- [14:26]
C
Yeah, yeah, that's such a good point. I even look at planned giving, which more nonprofits should be talking about earlier, Even with people not yet in the prime time era. Planned giving is a really important way of ensuring sustainability for your organization, but also helping donors be in alignment with how they want to organize their affairs. Have those planned giving conversations, have those donor advice, other ways in which they can build a more meaningful relationship through endowments. Just take that conversation to the next level. It's not about what's going on with fiscal year 25. It's about what's going to get you to fiscal year 50, what's going to, like I said, help those future versions of yourself.
- [15:21]
A
Yeah. And as you're talking, I actually was reminded of my naturopathic doctor calls this era the empire building era, because she talks about how this is the age in your 40s where your progesterone and estrogen levels naturally decline, which are the caretaking hormones, and your testosterone level kind of rises. And it's a point at which you're like, I'm done taking care of people. What am I building in the world? At the same time, interestingly, that men have a natural decline in testosterone. So I'm sure men in their 40s and 50s who are like more homebodies and they, like, start cooking and they have little dogs, they're like, what is happening here? So empire building is incredible.
- [16:03]
C
It is really wild how nature is set up, and it provides this real opportunity for us to use strength in a way that perhaps we haven't had the chance to until now. I love the. Just whatever is happening inside of me, I really like it.
- [16:25]
A
Yeah.
- [16:25]
C
And I really love. Yes, absolutely. Yeah.
- [16:29]
A
And the point I want to make is if you're thinking about the primetime woman, the words that you say and the messages that you put out are really important. These are women who are in their power. These are women who are looking for empowerment, legacy, like, long term. Who am I going to be? What mark? Am I going to leave? And so I think it would be a mistake if not that anyone out here would do this. This is not being about being old and frail. No, this is about being in your power.
- [17:02]
C
Yeah, absolutely. If you look at photos of the golden girls and see their ages and realize that they were acting as senior citizens, but they were my age, and I don't believe I look like a golden girl at all. In fact, I could be a goldish girl because I've earned this Place of differentiation. However, I think there's just a different way in which we look at aging now. We're living longer, we're taking better care of ourselves. And a big part of what differentiates women from men too is that social aspect where, you know, like, I look at my girlfriends, that's my tribe, they've helped me raise my kids. They're the ones that I've talked to when I've had challenges in my life. They're the ones that celebrate me. They're the ones that are going to be by my side through the tough times, looking ahead. And so having that strength even in community, is really powerful to feel.
- [18:09]
A
Tisha, I have to tell you, I heard this really sad statistic the other day. I'm not going to remember, but some like crazy number of men say that they don't have a single person that they would call a close friend. I was like, that's the saddest thing in the world. There's a real loneliness epidemic there.
- [18:27]
C
That's horrible. It's horrible.
- [18:29]
A
Sad.
- [18:30]
C
Yeah.
- [18:30]
A
But women, we're very good. We're very good at gathering community. So you said something that I want to really focus on, which is how do you make giving social? So if you're a nonprofit and you're out here, I would really challenge you to get creative about what kinds of things might you do to reinforce social ties among women and your prime time women givers. So one thing that you mentioned was giving circles. I think you also mentioned when we last spoke, a community centered pickleball tournament. Like, pickleball is not my thing, but like, I know some people really love it. So as you're thinking about how nonprofits can design sort of community building, community centric type experiences, what kinds of things might they think about?
- [19:18]
C
Yeah, that pickleball example is really good. Just throw that gala away and get some folks in a pickleball tournament and or party with a purpose. Find ways to make giving fun. It doesn't have to be stuffy and formal anymore. And I think when it comes to giving with women and giving in community, just find ways in which you can build programs that are special for women. And this is not about exclusion because we always want anyone, however they identify, to feel welcome. However, there is something significant about catering and tailoring for women.
- [20:06]
A
Can I ask you, Tisha, you don't need to name names here, but I'd be curious, as a philanthropist and someone who's been in the nonprofit field, what has been the best donor experience you've had and why and what's been the worst donor experience you've had and why?
- [20:21]
C
Yeah, you know what? I have to go back to the very beginning when I was a slay at home mom. At our church, there was an opportunity to donate to a water campaign. And the missionaries were very compelling and told a great story about the work that they were doing. And so there was an appeal to help. And I whispered to my husband, I'd actually rather go and help them and still give, but I'd love to be a part of the work that they're doing just for one day. And it was a passing comment, and I was so surprised that for Christmas I opened a huge box and there was a flag for Rwanda in there. And I was blown away. I was like, what is this for? And my husband said, we've worked it out so that you can be a part of a group that is also expressed the same sentiment of wanting to go.
- [21:21]
A
And from that, score points for hubby. Well done.
- [21:24]
C
Oh, yeah, he gives some pretty great gifts.
- [21:27]
A
Yeah.
- [21:28]
C
But that one was something that just connected me to the organization. For as much as I remember the dirt, I remember that that was shoveled. I remember the baby that I held because a mother gave me permission. I remember the area where you would see kids with huge canisters that they were carrying to get water from the well. And all of a sudden, this wasn't just something that I was giving to, I was giving for. And that was really important to me. And it actually changed the way I looked at donor relationships when I came on the other side. Eventually I joined the bank. Excuse me, joined the church because I had so much enthusiasm for doing things like that and creating ways of expressing generosity that. That experiential philanthropy was really key. And so with every position I've had professionally, I've tried to create opportunities for experiential philanthropy. I think that's really important.
- [22:39]
A
Wow, that's a great story. All right, let's talk about the flip side. What has been a not great philanthropic experience for you and why?
- [22:48]
C
Oh, that's such a good question too. I think when I've been asked for a big request very early, that really is such a turn off because it's pretty obvious that they've done their research so they understand what giving level I could come in at. They make presumptions about the importance of their organization in my life. And so when I get that request too early and without relationship that never flies.
- [23:26]
A
Oh, Taisha, I'm so glad you said that, because for those of you Listening. If you've had this experience or been the recipient of this kind of experience, I have a whole strategy around how to avoid this and turning donors off like Tisha, because I'm sure there were some cases in which you might have been inclined to give, but because it came too quickly, they hadn't built trust. Whatever. You're like, no, now, now you're dead to me.
- [23:52]
C
You don't know me. How do. You don't even know me. How do you think I would be connected to this organization? And maybe eventually I could have been, but because that Ask came so early, it just felt transactional versus relational.
- [24:07]
A
Yes, 100%. And let me ask you, Tisha, as a lifelong philanthropist, have you ever been approached by a fundraiser? Ask like, we would like to create a plan for us to get to know each other and it's going to be super transparent and if it feels right, we can co create a proposal for funding together. But you're always in control. You can go as quickly or as slow as you want. How would that feel to you? Has that ever been a lovely.
- [24:33]
C
That sounds so lovely. That sounds. And especially as a person who's at this place in my career where time is limited and I am very plan oriented because of where I am in my career, I would love a almost business like approach where I'm setting up a strategic plan with this person on whether or not this is a good fit. And you know what? I think that would actually take me down a road where I would be a fit because of the relationship that I built with that person, that development person.
- [25:15]
A
I love that. That is exactly the strategy I teach. So if y' all are out here listening and you want more Tishas in your life, come talk to me. I'm here to help you. Okay, last question, friend. Because this, this is related to more of your job. But we've spoken about this historic wealth transfer that is about to happen.
- [25:33]
C
Yes.
- [25:34]
A
And there's more.
- [25:34]
C
124 trillion. It's crazy.
- [25:38]
A
That's a very large number. We're going to see more economic power in women's hands. We're going to see more economic power in younger people's hands. So a lot of gen. What is it? Gen Zers and millennials. Where do you see some of the greatest opportunities and potentially blind spots for nonprofits?
- [26:02]
C
Yeah, I think when we look at that, the generational differences in generosity, my grandparents or your grandparents may have wanted to have a brick on the wall at the opera with their name there. And showing the significance of a gift and younger people don't really care about that. They want to know if your programs are also focused on equity and if you have ways in which you can share the services with more people rather than a specific area. I think they're looking for philanthropy as a form of advocacy and allyship. It's a really intense and intentional connection. So. So young people, even for those who are inheriting wealth, are really looking at meaningful organizations where they can touch and feel and see the work that's being done. And as women receive a lot of this wealth, whether it's through inheritance themselves or because they outlive their male partner, if they haven't, if it's a male partner, the ways in which, or even as a single woman, single women actually give twice as much as single men when it comes to generosity. And I think with that great wealth transfer come comes those conversations where it is about that education. It is about having that next level conversation about ways in which they can support your organization. Having conversations with women about stock gifts is just as important as having conversations about what your needs are and the liquidity needs that you have today.
- [28:00]
A
Yeah, that's such an interesting and important point, Tisha, which is that major gifts come from gifts of assets, not of income. And I think when people miss that, when they're not looking at the daafs and the family foundations and the stock and the IRAs and the what have you, is that they're leaving a lot of money on the table.
- [28:17]
C
Yeah.
- [28:18]
A
And the other thing is, I'll just say that of the primetime women that I know of, which I hope I can count myself as one, the they are very proud of their financial independence. And so anything that you're putting out there as a nonprofit, I would really underscore that. Messaging around independence, around freedom, around carving your own path, because that's going to be a message that resonates with your ideal donor.
- [28:48]
C
Yeah, absolutely. I love that. That's. That is really important. It's. It's about the decision that I've made and the woman that I've become. Even though I'm happily married for 20 years this year, it is about who I am as a woman today.
- [29:07]
A
Yeah, that is a beautiful note to end on. So, folks, if you are looking for more help in trying to identify your prime time ideal donor, I have put a special chatgpt in the show notes for you. So check it out. You get custom GPT. It only works with the paid version of ChatGPT, but it should help you to identify your primetime woman. Tisha thank you so much for joining us today.
- [29:32]
C
Oh, this was my pleasure. I loved it. Thank you so much.
- [29:36]
A
Thank you.
- [29:38]
B
Hey fundraisers. Looking to nail those big fundraising asks? Check out my big ask gift program at riawong.com bag. Say goodbye to uncertainty and hello to confidence with my program. Get expert strategies and personalized support to secure those game changing donations. Don't let fear hold you back. Join me and take your fundraising to new heights. We're enrolling now@riawong.com bag. That's riawong.com bag. So if you like big asks and you cannot lie, I'll see you in the program.