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- [00:00]
A
Hey. Welcome to Nonprofit Lowdown. Today's presenting sponsor is zephy.com Zefie is an all in one online donation platform with no platform fees and no credit card fees ever. I've been in your shoes, and what I'm not trying to do is spend extra money on platform fees. I don't like it and my donors don't either. We're about to head into year end when 30% of your money comes in. You want every dollar going where it's needed most. Your mission, not lining the pockets of a payment processor. Am I right? So check out zephy.com register. That's Z-E-F-F-Y.com. register. Make sure to let them know that you got sent from Nonprofit Lowdown. All right, let's get into today's episode. Welcome to Nonprofit Lowdown. I'm your host, Rhea Wong. Hey, podcast listeners, it's Rhea Wong with you. Once again with Nonprofit Lowdown. I am, as always, so excited because today I have the great honor and pleasure of talking to my friend Erica Carley, who is the chief impact officer of National Angels. So on top of being just a crackerjack fundraiser, Erica Carley is the person I consider to be the expert in. In donor retention. She is a leader, she is an executive, she is a mom, and she is just an all around lovely person. Erica, welcome to the show.
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B
Thank you. Rhea. It's so great to be here. I think the last time we had a conversation, it was like three years ago, which is.
- [01:42]
A
Oh, my gosh, in this news cycle, three years feels like 20.
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B
Totally. Yeah.
- [01:48]
A
I'm so happy to have you back. Okay, friend, before we jump into it, because I. I will die on this donor retention hill. Like, I just. If people are listening to this, if you do nothing else for the rest of the year, I beg, I plead, I'm on my knees. Look at your donor retention number. So, Erica, before we get into all this, tell us a little bit about yourself and your entry into the nonprofit space.
- [02:13]
B
Okay. I always had the nonprofit itch, I would say. I volunteered a lot. I worked at summer camps for kids with life threatening illnesses. Serious fun camps, Shout Out Camp Corey, Incarnation, Washington. But I began my career in film production right out of college before transitioning to the nonprofit sector. And the skills I developed in production were so well suited for fundraising. So that strategic mind, you have to be creative, detail oriented, persistent, and you have to be able to build relationships really quickly. And in film production, I would say the passion for the work, but also the story, you're all trying to tell really bonds you. And that's the same for nonprofit the mission, the stories that are developing and possible in the community you're serving because of the work. It unites you. So it felt like a real natural progression of applying my storytelling skills to causes that I deeply believed in. It gave me a sense of purpose that I hadn't quite experienced before. And I totally fell in love with it early on.
- [03:27]
A
I love that. All right, let's transition. Cause I want to get into this. I talk to lots of fundraisers. I'm sure you do all the time as well. And the number one thing I hear all the time is we just need more donors. We just need more donors. Rarely do I hear anyone say, we just need to retain our donors. So talk to me about why. There's leading question, obviously, but talk to me about why people should be thinking about retention first and donor acquisition second.
- [03:51]
B
First, it's way harder to acquire a new donor than to keep the donors that you have. Right? Think about it. You're. You have these relationships that you've built over time, and that takes effort. You have to consistently put effort into that. You can't just steward a new donor for three months, six months, a year, and then say, okay, we did a good job with our touch points. Going out and acquiring somebody new is hard. And the data backs that up. I would say I wake up caring about retention. I would maybe reframe. The way I think about it when I wake up in the morning, I think what we're really focused on and what we should be focused on is whether our donors feel a deep sense, sense of belonging to the work. Again, that only happens over time. When people feel like they belong, they stay, they give, and they grow with you. So, yes, it's about donor retention and keeping your donors with you, but it's about exploring opportunities for them to lean in even more. As their identity with your organization grows, so does their involvement, so does their investment. And so I think it's a no brainer. The identity piece in fundraising is absolutely critical. Jess Campbell sent an email out this morning to her.
- [05:18]
A
I was just gonna say Jess, go ahead.
- [05:21]
B
She mentioned the famous Maya Angelou quote. We talk about it at National Angels all the time. It's people will forget what you said, People will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel. And it's so true. We actually call it, we use unreasonable hospitality. National. Oh, my God.
- [05:42]
A
I'm just trying to Will on my podcast, forever Will, if you're Listening to this, I have friends in common who have I've sent as emissaries. I'm like, can you ask Will? So far, no one's gotten back to me, but I will let you know.
- [05:57]
B
Yes. Every single person who joins our team, this is in their welcome bag.
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A
Yes.
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B
Because. And whether it's from a case management perspective, we work in the foster care space, or if it's in donor donor relations or if it's in accounting, they all get that book. And we all talk about how it applies to our roles. The return of our donors is absolutely critical.
- [06:20]
A
All right, let's talk numbers, because I feel like people may know that donor retention is the thing that they should be focused on. But let's talk some real numbers. So I think when I last looked, national donor retention numbers were 18%, which makes me just want to cry. But what kind of numbers are you looking at when you're looking at your overall donor retention?
- [06:44]
B
I would say the most important donation in my mind is the second donation. If you can acquire that second donation, you've got something going for you. Right. So whether somebody signs up to be a recurring donor or a one time donor, you want to make sure that the stewardship is there, that the meaningful engagement is there. Because that second donation, if you're able to get that, the percentage of ongoing giving goes away, it like skyrockets. So call it the golden donation, call it whatever you want to call it. That's a seriously important donation. Now I'm also looking at over time, whether I'm pulling individual donor lists or companies, foundations, I'm looking at, have they given a second donation? And if they've given a second donation and they haven't given for a year or even two years or even three years, I'm still going to try and continue to go after them. So that's one of the numbers that I think everybody should be looking at and also be going after. Make sure you're set up to be going after that second donation and don't be afraid to ask for it.
- [08:00]
A
Yeah. So let's dig into that because I say that all the time. I'm like, I don't actually consider someone a donor until they give to you a second time. Because anybody can get a first gift. It's that second gift that really separates the women from the girls, as it were. So talk to me a little bit about tactically what you do to make that first giving experience special. Because I think it's such a missed opportunity when people treat a first time giver the way they treat a second time giver or a monthly giver, it's a different thing. And I'd love to think about and explore what is it that you do for your first time givers?
- [08:36]
B
Yeah. So first time givers always get a handwritten card and if they don't have an address, then we're calling them, we're texting them, we're emailing them, whatever we can do. And we love to try and get that address because being able to put something in the mail is so meaningful. So for us, that handwritten card, whether it's their first time donation or when they join the monthly giving program, which is for us, our angel alliance, if they join the monthly giving program, they're also going to get stuck stickers in their card. They're also going to get a little angel wing. We have a sticker with the logo. I'll show you the little angel wing. And I've seen. I met with one of our recurring donors. We met for coffee back in February. She was wearing this on her necklace chain. It was like so beautiful. So that's something we do for them for our first times. Also when somebody signs up for a recurring donation or one time, if you can put that handwritten card in the mail, also just giving them a phone call, I have found that it really surprises people when you just pick up the phone and call. Like they are delighted by that. I would also say this because this is something that I feel like I feel all the time. And I'm sure fundraisers who are listening to this will relate. We put a lot of cards in the mail and we call a lot of people that don't pick up and we send them a voice memo. We send a lot of emails that are not responding responded to because we're sending a lot. Just because you're not getting a response does not mean that they are not being read, that they're not being listened to and that they're not being appreciated. I've needed those, those moments where I really needed to remind myself of that. I was at our gala back March 1st, our big gala event in Austin and a donor came up to me, a recurring donor who I put a card in the mail for months earlier and she came up to me and, and she said, erica, I get your emails every single month. I got your handwritten card. It meant so much to me. It was so amazing.
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A
And I was thinking, oh my gosh.
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B
She'S never responded to me when the way that I have communicated to her. So to have her come up and say that to me was like, oh, my gosh, it is. It's so worth it to put in that effort. And it means so much to them, going above and beyond those handwritten cards. I always say we will die on the hill of handwritten cars.
- [11:03]
A
It's so funny. When I first started my job as an ed, someone told me this. They're like, you know what? I'm going to give you one piece of advice. Little notes. I was like, little notes. Like, you can build a whole business on the back of little notes that you, like, send to funders. And little notes. So everyone, little notes. But here's what I want you to dispel for us, because I know there are people out here listening. They're like, hey, yeah, cool. Erica Rhea. I hear you, but I don't have time for this. I am so busy. I don't have time to do handwritten notes. What would your response be to that? Because, look, as a former ad, I know you have a lot of things on your plate for sure, and I also think it's a question of priority. So what would you respond to someone who says, I just don't have time for the little notes, Erica.
- [11:47]
B
Oh, gosh, you gotta make time. I would say that. And I would say once you get into the practice of it, you will not only see the benefit when it comes to the retention of your donors, but you will see a shift in how you're feeling throughout the day when you can take a moment to sit down and write a card to a donor that reminds you of the importance of this work and reminds you that this is so much bigger than us. It grounds you in the work that is really important. And I think that it also comes down to time management and prioritization. It doesn't have to be just the ed. First of all, I think that you can, if you can, spread out the weight of the task of writing these cards, that's a good thing. Invite your board members into it. Invite your other team members into it, no matter what their role is. I think it's a great thing, a great exercise to do, but it's worth it. Put 20 minutes on your calendar every single week to write three cards. Put a calendar reminder once a week. Do whatever you can to make sure that you're set up to do it, because it will pay in dividends. It really will. Look at your donor retention numbers.
- [13:06]
A
Yeah.
- [13:07]
B
What do those say to you? Are you doing enough in the way of donor retention? And for us, yes, small notes, but oftentimes I find myself sitting down and writing pretty lengthy cards to our donors, really reflecting on what they have meant to the mission of National Angels, what they have impacted, and to tell them this work is not possible without generous, kind hearted people like you who just continue to show up, which is exactly what the kids in our programs need. They need adults that are showing up over and over again and not letting go. We also need that from our donors because without our donors it's not possible. So yes there is. So you're going to be pulled in so many different directions all the time, but this is what makes your work possible. You're the donor, so you've got to double down on it. And I would also just say this, if you really feel like I am so stretched and I don't have the time, sit down with your team. Sit down with your team. And I don't believe that there's a one size fits all strategy for how you're going to steward your donors. What's important is to come together and ask yourselves what would make this donor, whatever, if a new donor that comes in or recurring donor that, that donates, that signs up for that recurring donation, what would make their experience truly meaningful within the first 90 days? What would make them feel seen and valued, what would give them a sense of belonging to the mission and then develop it from there. It is critical that you take bandwidth into account what can be reasonably executed, who's going to be responsible for what, and then always stay open to mindful of those one off opportunities that the one off opportunities to connect that may go outside of the matrix you build.
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A
Okay. It's tough.
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B
I don't want to say, hey, you just got to make the time, but.
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A
You just got to make the time. Here's what I hear is if you tell me you don't have time to do something, what I actually hear is you're not prioritizing it. Look, we all have the same 24 hours in a day. Where you spend those 24 hours determines your priorities. And something that you said really clicked for me too, which is along the lines of unreasonable hospitality. There is a Dreamweaver role within eleven Madison Park. And by the way, Erica, if you've ever been to eleven Madison Park, I have to tell you, like in the Will Godari days, it was magical. Can you assign one person on your team to be the Dreamweaver, to think about the donor experience and think about how can we make this special? Delegate that part out. Because I know sometimes when you're pressed like it's hard to get creative. It's hard to think outside the box. Find a smart, I don't know, a smart staff member who has a special magic touch and delegate it to that person.
- [16:07]
B
I've wrestled with this a little bit, but I have found it to be so great in automating stewardship in a way that has a big return and that is editing recurring donation receipts every single month. So on the 30th or 31st or 28th of the month, changing the message in the system email. It doesn't even look like a receipt. It looks like an impact message. It does have their giving amount the next date. You know that their payment will process. It has all the information that you would need in a receipt in a subtle way, but it is a story that they have made possible and they're getting it in their inbox every single month. You're not going to have deliverability issues because it's considered a receipt in the coming out of the CRM and I get responses to those emails frequently. I love that you put in the effort once. It goes to all your recurring donors every single month.
- [17:02]
A
Love it. Okay, and now a word from our sponsor. Quick break. Today's episode is brought to you by Zephi.com if you're running a non profit, you already know year end is when 30% of your revenue hits. You want every dollar going to the mission, not bleeding out to platform or credit card fees. That's why I love Zefy Z E F F Y. It's an all in one online platform with no platform fees and no credit card fees ever. I've been in your shoes and paying fees on donations felt like lighting money on fire. My donors didn't like it either. So do yourself a favor, head to zefy.com register again. That's Z-E-F-F-Y.com register and keep every cent working for your cause. Be sure to tell them that you heard about it from nonprofit Lowdown. All right, back to the show. Okay, I want to talk about stewardship touches because this is again the thing that just to be in my bonnet when I do trainings or I talk to fundraisers, I say, okay, how many gratitude touch points have you had in your stewardship sequence? And everyone raises their hand and say, by the way, the tax receipt does not count. And everyone lowers their heads, right? So talk to me about what you think good stewardship looks like because I'm often asked how many times should I send something out? I think that's the wrong question. It's not about how many times you send out an email or a impact report or whatever it is. It's about the quality of the communication. That being said, I find a lot of nonprofits are not communicating enough with their donors. And so what I tell them is that before you ask them for another gift, you have to answer three questions that they have in their minds, whether they know it or not. A, what did you do with my money? B, am I better off giving to someone else? And C, how do you make me feel good or bad? That's it. So talk to me about how you think about stewardship touch points.
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B
Yeah, it goes back to the sense of belonging and identity. And just like you said like that you, you can't get belonging if you're not building trust. So you have to be transparent in everything that you do. Transparent about the impact that a donor is making with their contribution, the data also to back it up. And also you've got to be transparent about what it takes to run as an organization. Doesn't always need to be rainbows and butterflies. Like times are really hard right now. Being generous is like the greatest statement of hope. And so to be able to tell them both things, tell them both of those stories at one time, I think is really important. But when I think about stewardship, it goes back to what is, what feels unreasonably hospitable. Those are the things that are going to make donors remember. So oftentimes we have a matrix, a stewardship matrix that we follow with our team and different team members execute different touch points. So that includes things like the handwritten card which we've spoken about, a meaningful touch point three months after they've given or three months after they joined our angel alliance. That may be a voice memo. I like voice memos a lot. I like text messages a lot. I find that they are cutting through the noise that is oftentimes in our inboxes. Email is super, super important. Yes. But I think that you have to have a multi channel approach and the content has to be quality, like you said. I think that if you can be so engaged with your programs that you're hearing stories that are happening in your community right now and then you're using those stories to communicate directly with your donors. And when you're not asking them for money, like that's a stewardship touch point. It's not really a stewardship touch point if you're asking them for money. Right. That's a different category. You've got to be consistently communicating about what they're making possible. And I'll give you an example. We decided going into end of year, it's September. We have our monthly givers who are so important to us. We just had a programs meeting last week on Tuesday, and we heard. I was like furiously writing down the stories that our case managers were telling us. Just beautiful stories. And this is what our donors make possible. And so we pulled our active recurring donor list and we have been text messaging every single one of them and customizing it with their name. If I have a relationship with them that has gone a little bit further, I'll talk about details. It's been, I can't believe I last saw you in March. We've got to get a coffee on the books. And then telling them specifically about this young woman named Jazz in our programs who is being so radically supported in our programs. And that consistent support and that sense of belonging that she feels is exactly what they're making possible every single month for them to that and to feel that deeply from me and opening up the door. I am here to connect at any time.
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A
I think, beautiful.
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B
That's meaningful.
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A
So let's talk about this, because I think the point that you made earlier is frustration for a lot of fundraisers, which is you send out the emails, you send out the notes, you send out the text messages. You may not hear anything. And what I think happens most often with retention is that people don't make a big deal out of stepping away. They just ghost. It's totally I. And I've ghosted myself, right? I've made donations. I haven't heard anything about the donations. The only thing I hear is when they're asking me for money again. And so I'm disinclined to give them again. But I don't necessarily tell them why. And question for you, how do you or is there a way that you have been able to track early science of people who may be kind of stepping away?
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B
So what I'm seeing in the recurring space, and I'm sure more people than me are seeing this, there can be a lot of lapsed donations. Credit cards, you sign up for a recurring donation, subscriptions. The credit card companies have put some new laws into place. Now, that was years ago, but we still sometimes see that second donation will fail. So frustrating. And if we do not intervene right then with radical hospitality, we can lose them. And so that's something that I see. We have to be intervening right away. But if they continue to lapse month after month, you begin to go, what have we done?
- [23:53]
A
Wrong.
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B
What have we not done in the way of stewardship that we could have done better? And so I think that sometimes when a donor ghosts, it's. It's also saying something about us. Right? It can be saying something about us which is vulnerable and makes you feel really icky. And I think in that moment, it's so important to take accountability versus kind of ghost the situation yourself, meeting them where they are. Right. Like, oftentimes I feel like, okay, I just, I'm going to put that aside. They ghosted. I'm just going to let them go on their way and it's a bummer. Instead, I think we need to practice curiosity and even if they don't respond, to be able to put the message out there, whether it's over text or a voice memo, over email. And just to say, hey, I want to take accountability in this moment, I feel like I have not done a good enough job stewarding you and telling you exactly what you have made possible. I would love to just open up the conversation to know, what could I have done better? What could I have done better to serve you as a donor and to learn from it? It's hard to take radical ownership. It's so hard. It hurts. It hurts. But I think that's something that, that we can do and that we should do more of. And I do not love surveying our donors all the time, but I think when you're having, when you have the opportunity to be on the phone with a donor or in a virtual meeting, making sure you're always asking them that question, hey, what really with you? Because you're making so much impact possible. I know I have to pick and choose where and how I communicated about it, but what has really landed? Because I want to make sure that I'm doing that and take that information and think about how that might apply to all of your donors.
- [25:42]
A
Yeah. And a couple of things that occurred to me and tell me if this makes sense to you is to me, early indications of this person. Let's say you're an annual donor. Maybe they won't come back if, for example, they've unsubscribed from your emails or they're not opening your emails, or they're not clicking your emails or they're ignoring your invitations to events, or it's like, we could go down the list of early indicators. But I do think it's probably worth, as a team, thinking through case studies of, hey, this is a donor that we lost. What could we have known earlier on to intervene at a point that it was salvageable versus. And look, sometimes things just change. Right. So I'm not saying that every single donor who walks out the door is someone that you could have saved, but I think without asking the question, you'll never know.
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B
Yes. And I also think this made me think. It's really important to think about this from a systems perspective as well. So when somebody unsubscribes from your newsletter list to make sure that you have a system email in place or a workflow in place in your CRM, if you're. If you have a CRM, hopefully to be able to tell you that happened.
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A
Right.
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B
To alert you of it. Because that's something that I have found that has been a huge challenge for us. There are CRMs that are not built without you actually building it and configuring it on the back end to alert you when a recurring donor has gone into the system and made the recurring donation inactive.
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A
Yeah. Hello.
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B
How are you supposed to steward that donor and celebrate them? We put a handwritten card in the mail when a donor has done that to celebrate what they have achieved with us and to celebrate the chapter that they were with us and to always express our arms are always open. We will always consider you a part of the angel alliance family. So you got to make sure that you're set up to get those alerts and to make sure that regardless of how big your team is, that somebody on your team is responsible for looking at those data points, creating a path forward for, like you said, okay, how could we do this better? What could we have done? And then making sure that those processes are put in place. You've got to take the data that you're seeing and then actually put it into practice.
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A
Yeah. So last question for me, because I know a lot of folks are really relying on tactical data. What kind of meetings are you having? Do you have a weekly stand up? Are you looking at numbers on a weekly or monthly basis? Walk me through the system that Erica Carly has set up so that people can say, like, all right, this is maybe a system we could replicate, or there are parts of this that we could replicate in our own organization.
- [28:26]
B
So there are a couple of different things that we do. I will say this is not just about donor retention, but I think it definitely plays a role. And I think that it's a really. I would even call it critical practice. Every single Monday, myself, our CEO and our CFO have a standing meeting. It is two hours long, which might. People might go, ah, that is way too long. But I will tell you, for us to get so aligned on this is what we are focusing on this week. These are. This is the information that you both need to know that our different teams are driving forward and. And to take probably at least 30 minutes of that meeting to look into the financials. Where are we in our income projections? What percentage are we. How much more do we have to raise between now and the end of the year? What donors did we think were going to make a donation by this point, but haven't? What donors pledged to make a donation this year, but haven't. And what do we need to do in order to ensure that we get that gift? We are looking at the micro. We are like literally looking line by line. Sometimes we'll have a meeting where we feel like, okay, the numbers haven't changed very much, so we'll look at the summarized report, but the detailed report is always there. And we're really digging in to make sure that we know we need to raise this much money. This is where we're at. These, the tactics that we're going to use to ensure that we're going to meet our goals. If you're not doing it, I think that some iteration of that should be implemented. Now, we're also talking about our home office and the national network of 19 chapters. So for most organizations, two hours may not be necessary, but we do have quite a bit to talk about. I would also say I have a team huddle every single Monday that's an hour long just with our development team and we are talking about what are we doing from a donor stewardship perspective. We're looking at all of the people that we're prospecting. Prospecting, including new prospects and donors who were trying to get their second, third, fourth gift. We're talking about what priorities are we looking at this week. And it's so great to feel like you're fully aligned and you're all rowing forward in the same way. So that's a big one. And then I also have one on ones with my development staff to make sure that as an individual contributor, they feel like they're fully set up for success. That any barriers they have that we can figure out a way to get rid of it, to get them the tools and the resources that they need to do with the stewardship that we need to be doing. It's really important for alignment.
- [31:04]
A
Yeah.
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B
On the team. And for accountability. For accountability for myself and for our entire team. Yeah.
- [31:10]
A
And I just want to underscore here that you're really basing the activities on the numbers. Like everyone needs to know. It's like playing a basketball game. Like you have to know the score, otherwise you don't know what you should be doing. And I think too often there's not enough integration between different departments around the scoreboard, if you will. And there's not enough tactical discussion about line by line, okay, where are we with this person? How are we upgrading whatever with them? Because it's a game of inches is what I would say. And I think sometimes we rely so much on that Hail Mary last minute. Oh yeah, Mackenzie Scott's gonna drop a million dol on me out of the blue. Probably not going to happen for you. What is more likely going to happen is that you are going to have to move your donors forward inch by inch, week over week, for the whole year. That's what's going to happen.
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B
And I think it's also important to think about this. Your recurring donors are one of the most natural pipelines into your major guest program. That's something to really be thinking about, especially to go into end of year. We're actually about to launch a new initiative that's built on tiered. It's built on a tiered multi year giving structure with the entry level starting at $2,500. So on paper, that's a big jump if you're giving $100 a month. But in practice, I've seen many recurring donors step up to much higher commitments than anyone expected. So it will surprise you. I think the key is just to not overlook them. These are some of your most loyal supporters who you've done the most intentional stewardship with. And when invited, they often welcome the chance to deepen that impact. So that kind of tiered framework provides a scalable path to grow a major gifts program in a sustainable way. So that may be something for other organizations to start thinking about. And maybe you don't start at $2500 a month, maybe you start at 1500 so that those hundred dollars a month are increasing by 300, which feels like a much smaller jump. Yeah, but I think that's where we have to go. I think multi year gifts, that's another form of recurring giving. So applying that mindset to your major gifts program, I think it's going to be a game changer. And that's where we're headed.
- [33:40]
A
Yeah, it's so interesting you said so. I once interviewed Tony Martinetti, who is the plan giving guru. And the people who are most likely planned giving prospects for you are ones that have given over multiple years at any amount. I was like, even $10 is like even $10 because the act of giving over again demonstrates loyalty. And I was like, that was a big shift for me because I thought plan giving people are only going to be your major donors. But I was wrong. And then the other piece I wanted to add is I think we shortchange the mid tier giving, Right? So we're thinking annual giving, monthly giving, and then people want to jump to major gifts. And I'm like, there's a middle here. You can't just go from $100 a month to now we're going to ask for $100,000. You can, but I think it's going to be highly unlikely that you're going to succeed. So I think the message here is think about your mid tier program before you jump into major gifts.
- [34:37]
B
Yeah. And for especially smaller nonprofits, what would you consider to be a major gift? A major gift might be 5,000 for you or 10,000 for you. You want to call it major gift. That could be major. And. And you can invite your donors into that. I also think that there's just thinking about the identity piece. When we're looking at our recurring donors and we're about to invite them into joining a specific level of this tiered giving, we're going to invite them to be a founding member. And so that's another thing that. Another way that I think you can lean into the identity piece, especially if you're going to launch a new program or rebrand it or whatever it is. But I think being a founding member and then also thinking about what the stewardship of each one of those levels, what the benefits will be to being a part of each one of those levels. I think it's important to think about. Our CEO was just with Scott Harrison and Vic Harrison of Water in Nashville, and they talked about productizing. And that's something to be really mindful of. I think you have to be careful. You always productizing. Yes, but what is the product? And you've got to be so mindful about how you're messaging that and positioning it. But I do think that when we're. A lot of people talk about the generosity crisis, I try not to get too caught up in it because it's hard when you're seeing that in the headlines day in and day out as fundraisers. But we've got to be mindful of the structure that we have in place. Structure, forgiving that we have in place. That's not only going to set our donors up for a rhythm of trust and belonging and proof of impact, but set our organization up for long term sustainability and growth.
- [36:26]
A
Yeah. Last thing I'll say here too, which is, I think much has been made of the generosity crisis, but I would also, to your point, examine our own responsibility in that. Is it a generosity crisis or is it a trust crisis that we've created by not stewarding people? Because I don't think people are less generous. People want to give. I think we as a sector, quite frankly, have not been great at stewarding their trust and their generosity. And therefore, like, why would you continue to do something that you didn't find to be fulfilling and valuable? Right. I'm not going to go to the same restaurant if I didn't feel like it was a great meal. I'm not going to give the same organization if I didn't get the afterglow of giving. So wake up call to all the fundraisers out here. How are you creating a hospitable afterglow experience for your donors so they keep coming back for more.
- [37:14]
B
I think that is such a good message, Rhea. And we have had donors who have come to us to say, my financial situation has changed, I have to pause, I will be back. And it's important to not then pause their stewardship. They've made a lot of impact possible. Keep stewarding those donors. And I think you're right. I think we've got to look in the mirror and go, what are we not doing? Talk about internally and I've talked about with the teams that I've been lucky enough to be a part of over the years is how do we make it so that when donors look at their checkbooks, their credit card statements, that we are the last thing to go. Start there and then out your stewardship matrix.
- [37:59]
A
Yeah.
- [37:59]
B
Because a welcome series ain't going to cut it right. You can't just stop there. When you have emails coming to you that are very clearly coming from a system, what is that being paired with? You can't just rely on those automated pieces because at the end of the day, relationships are made through human connection. And when you miss that piece or when you don't invest in that piece, then the retention piece can go away.
- [38:27]
A
Yeah, that's a beautiful way to end. Actually, the one thing I've been telling people that I want everyone to think about is people will ask me questions about the stewardship series or my acquisition strategy or whatever. The piece of advice I've been giving them is, if this were your grandmother, how would you want them to behave. Just think that everyone is your grandmother. Would you want your grandmother to experience a Cold3 email sequence with no touch points? Probably not. Would you want your grandmother to get hit up every year for money without being told what happened to her money from before? Probably not.
- [39:03]
B
I think it's so true and I think the story you also, you want the stories you tell to land in that really human way. I would say for your grandma and also for your daughter or for your friend. And I will tell you this, and this is maybe something that people want to incorporate into their end of year giving strategy. So for Christmas last year we have three young kids and so we told them for Christmas this year we're going to give you the gift of a recurring donation to a monthly gift. And mind you, I have a four year old and a six year old and a seven year old. But I said I want you to think about causes that are really important to you. What do you care about? And we will help you find an organization that you can give $25 a month to and the hope is that they'll be stewarded and we can then share those messages with the kids. So my daughter Scout, I did, I promise I did not lead her in one direction, but she said, I want to help kids who are in foster care, like the work you do. And so she's sweet. She has a, it's sweet. Scout's name comes up every month and it's always sweet. But I always take the time to sit down with her and read her the email and I don't know if it fully lands with her, but she is getting something out of it. My son chose, he really wanted something with black bears, so that was a little harder. So we chose Parks Recreation in Washington State. But that may be something to invite people who are already recurring givers to maybe sign up for a second one in honor of or on behalf of their daughter or their grandmother or their parent and to make sure that they're, it's a way to engage them in the work. And Scout's not going to be signing up with her own money right now, but down the line I hope she will. And if you give a recurring gift for your grandmother, maybe after a year they'll say, hey, I want to give a gift to this organization. I like see what they're doing and I'm so grateful to be a part of it. So now I want, now I feel like I do belong and I'm going to take it upon myself to start giving. So something to think about for end of year.
- [41:12]
A
Yeah, I love that. And actually shout out to there is an orca rescue up in Washington state. I'm not remembering the name of it, but I, I adopted a whale for a friend's son and they did such a beautiful job of sending him. Like this is your adopted whale. This and he's in the J. And this is his name. And it like, it was just so great that his family started to support the whale on their own. And I think to your point, because they did a beautiful job of making him feel like he was really connected to the cause. So anyway, and it could be really fun. So if you're listening to this, think about how you can make it fun, make it creative, make it sticky for your donors. Erica, my friend, thank you so much for being on the pod. As always, such a pleasure. And I'll make sure to put your information in the show notes if folks want to get in touch.
- [41:57]
B
Thank you so much.
- [41:58]
A
This was wonderful. Thanks Ren. I'll talk to you soon. Hey fundraisers. Looking to nail those big fundraising asks? Check out my Big Ask gift program@riawong.com bag. Say goodbye to uncertainty and hello to confidence with my program. Get expert strategies and personalized support to secure those game changing donations. Don't let fear hold you back. Join me and take your fundraising to new heights. We're enrolling now@riawong.com bag. That's riawong.com bag. So if you like big asks and you cannot lie, I'll see you in the program.