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Hey you, it's Rhea Wong. If you're listening to Nonprofit Load On, I'm pretty sure that you'd love my weekly newsletter. Every Tuesday morning you get updates on the newest podcast episodes and then interspersed, we have fun special invitations for newsletter subscribers only and fundraising inspo because I know what it feels like to be in the trenches alone. On top of that, you get cute dog photos. Best of all, it is free. So what are you waiting for? Head over to riawong.com now to sign up. Foreign. Welcome to Nonprofit Lowdown. I'm your host, Ria Wong. Hey hey, Nonprofit Lowdown fam Ria with you once again. Welcome to Nonprofit Lowdown. So today is actually going to be a little bit of a different episode. Today I am talking about my recent ayahuasca. So if you're just here for the fundraising, if you're you do not want to hear about my adventures with psychedelics in Costa Rica, probably just skip this episode. But if you're at all curious, buckle up because I am going deep. Now let's start from the beginning. For those of you who do not know what ayahuasca is, essentially it is a psychedelic brew that is traditionally used in indigenous cultures for spiritual ceremonies. Of late, it's been studied as a way to treat modern day ills such as depression, disassociation and so forth. So I recently got back from my second ayahuasca adventure on Saturday and I'm going to get into the dirty details about what this all means. Those of you who are interested in the specifics of ayahuasca, I'll make sure to link in the show notes much more detailed, much more details about exactly what ayahuasca is. But this is my second trip at this particular place in Costa Rica and I did four days, or rather four nights of ayahuasca. Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday. So the ceremony started at 5:30 and went till about 2:30 in the morning, except for the very last night where we went all night long. So I'm going to talk about all of the details. But the reason why I'm talking about this to you, my nonprofit Famous, is that so much of the reason why I decided to do ayahuasca is so relevant to our sector. So I'm going to talk a little bit about my personal journey. Full disclosure here. I am not a doctor. I am not your mom. I'm not your therapist. I'm not an expert. I am just a human being having an experience that felt very profound to me and I just wanted to Share what that was like for me. I'm not telling you you should do it. I'm not telling you you shouldn't do it. But I do think that some of what I'm going to talk about may resonate with a lot you who are in the nonprofit sector. So that is why I'm doing it. And again, this is my coming out party. Prior to this, I think I was a little reluctant to talk about my ayahuasca use publicly because it is considered a an illegal drug in the United States. However, I went somewhere where it is legal. In fact, it was medically licensed. And you know what? I'm done hiding. And I will say too, for me, I normally don't really do drugs. I don't drink, I don't smoke. I don't do recreational drugs. I don't even eat red meat. I go to bed early. The only thing that I do that is not strictly speaking, senior citizen librarian is every once in a while I like to do psychedelics in Costa Rica. So let's get into it because I think that some of you will find it really interesting. And I don't know who all is listening, but I do think that someone out here is going to listen to this and it's going to be exactly what they need today. So again, this is not going to be a normal episode. If you want a normal episode about fundraising, you probably just skip this one. I'm not here as a coach. I'm here as a human. And the reason why I think that this is going to really resonate with a lot of folks in the nonprofit world is that a lot of nonprofit leaders are functional. They're competent, they're respected. And a lot of us are quietly depleted. So let me talk about myself. The reason I decided to go on an Ayahuasca retreat is from the outside looking in. My life was great. My business is successful. I had a great marriage. I had friends. I seemed like I was having a lot of fun. But the truth is there was nothing that was wrong. But it just felt like something was missing in my life. My life was working. My mission is working. I was working. But joy wasn't part of the equation. I just felt like I had lost some kind of connection to myself. And the thing that, that sort of childlike wonder that really got me up in the morning, right? It felt a little bit just like painting by numbers. Along the way, I had become what I like to call God's little hallway monitor. And I often think about myself like being in the hallway with A metaphorical session and asking people like, where's your hallway past? You're not allowed to run in the hallway. Da da da da da. And in me. What I saw in my God's little hallway monitor role was that I had a lot of traits that I think will resonate with a lot of folks in the nonprofit world. There was this constant vigilance. There felt like a moral responsibility. I was always containing myself emotionally. I was preventing risk in others. I would catastrophize and fantasize about all of the worst case scenarios, believing that if I could prepare myself for the absolute worst thing that could ever happen, it wouldn't happen. Or at least I would be prepared for it. I was self policing in the name of integrity. I don't know if this is resonating for folks out here, but this mirrors a lot of what I also saw in the nonprofit field. And the other thing I just had to realize too, is that this God's little hallway monitor role wasn't a personality flaw or defect. It was a survival strategy that became a leadership identity. And I know a lot of you are out here, you're overachievers, you're climbing the ranks, you're being heroes in your nonprofit. And at some point, when does it stop being you and start being an identity and start being a mask that you hide behind? And when I was an ed, even when I had my own business, I wasn't just leading the mission. I was monitoring myself constantly with this God's little hallway monitor role that I had given myself. And frankly, I had gotten a lot of validation for being God's little hallway monitor. Right? I, the board loved me and the funders loved me. And I had a reputation as being successful because I adhered so closely to being God's little hallway monitor. Right? I played by the rules and I did everything right. And I crossed the T's and I dotted the I's and I was a good little girl. But what was happening on the inside, what was happening on the inside for me is that I was over functioning as a virtue. And I think especially in the nonprofit culture, we reward that kind of behavior. We talk about people doing heroic things, being superhuman, but it just, when you take a step back, it feels so wrong that the success of our organizations depend on one hero burning themselves out versus having a system that works. And for me, I knew I was burnt out, but things burnout did not look like collapse. Burnout looked like numbness. I was completely burning out my nervous system. The sense of always needing to put out fires, Chronic urgency and caretaking of your clients, caretaking of your staff, caretaking of your board. It was burning through my nervous system. And at some point, over functioning and high productivity stopped working for me as a coping strategy. The way that breakdown looked for me wasn't a total nervous collapse. It was just a losing access to myself and in a sense, losing. Losing touch with my soul. Right. It almost felt like I was a robot, like I could take care of everyone else's needs. I could be highly productive. I could get everything done. I could empty the inboxes, I could get the proposals, I could have the donor meetings. But I didn't feel. It didn't feel fulfilling. It didn't feel like I was in touch with myself as a person. And so I got to this point where I just knew that there was something more for me. I just knew that the way that I wasn't working, but I didn't know what else it could be. But I did feel like I. There was something else. There was something more. There was a way that I could get back in touch with myself. And so when I started looking at ayahuasca, it wasn't about fixing something that was broken. It was about learning how to function in the world without erasing myself and without erasing my need. And let me just say too, before I got to the step of ayahuasca, I tried everything. And when I say everything, basically everything. I've been practicing yoga for the last 20 plus years. I've been to a decade of therapy. I've done hypnotherapy, I've done past life regressions, I've done reiki, I've done cold plunges, I've done acupuncture, I've done retreats, I've. You name it, I have done it. And what I realized is that I was trying to make okay this completely unsustainable system of being. I was trying to practice leadership without regulation. And what I also realized is because I was operating at this high level of urgency and dysregulation, it was impossible for me to build calm people and calm systems because I was constantly dysregulated. And I want to say this for you all out here because I know so many of us are responsible for juggling all of the balls and making sure that everyone else is taken care of. But as a leader, if you yourself are dysregulated, you cannot build a regulated organization. You can't have a regulated marriage, you can't have regulated relationships. If you Yourself, at the core of it, are dysregulated. And so when I decided to take the very big step of doing ayahuasca, it was because I realized that my dysregulation was not just affecting me, it was affecting others around me. And it looked like being very short tempered. It looked like being very reactive to things which normally would seem quite mundane. It looked like disconnection. It looked like I'd rather zone out and watch Netflix versus engaging with my friends and family. And I just did not want that for myself. I just thought that there had to be another way. All to say, back in 2023, a friend of mine, Steve, recommended this place called Rythmia in Costa Rica. And again, full disclosure, I'm not paid by rythmia. I have no affiliation with rythmia other than the fact that I have been there now twice to do ayahuasca. The reason I chose Rythmia is like a lot of you, I'm sure I was reading all of the scary things and seeing all of the scary YouTube videos about ayahuasca, reading all the things about sketchy shamans. And here's the other thing I know about you. All our brains are very fricking precious. I have spent lots of time, lots of money, lots of energy on making sure that my brain is the best that it can be. And so for me, I was not going to trust going to some place, some dirty shack by the side of a river. This, that is not my jam. And again, I'm not trying to make judgments. If that's your thing. Vaya con dios. I'm so happy for you. But that was not for me. And so I chose this place called Rythmia, which is in Costa Rica, because, and it was a very deliberate and cautious decision in that Rythmia is actually medically licensed by the Costa Rican government. They have doctors, they have nurses, they have a paramedic on site during the entire ceremony, they have screening, medical screening. So they won't let just anybody go and do the ayahuasca. They have very clear integration protocols. And so for me, the container mattered as much as the experience. Simply because I needed to feel safe, I needed to feel secure. I needed to feel like that this was going to be an experience that was as safe as it could be, given the fact that I was doing psychedelics. This was not spiritual tourism or impulsive experimentation. This was a very deliberate and intentional choice to go to a place that had a lot of support structures. Rythmia in particular is set up for the first time, ayahuasca user. Now there are some of you out here who might be listening, who might be veteran ayahuasca users, which maybe rythmia is not what you need because you are much more comfortable diying it. This was not the case for me as someone who was a, an I, a psychedelic virgin, any non recreational drug user or a recreational non drug user. I really needed something that was very handholdy and very supportive. So again, this is what I needed. I needed safety, I needed structure and I needed discernment, not transcendence on demand. Let me tell you a little bit about my experience at Rythmia in particular. And again, this is not an endorsement of Rythmia or not. They're not paying me anything. But what they do is they have a very intentional program that you go through. And so when it's usually a Saturday to Saturday or Sunday to Sunday, so it's a one week long. And when you arrive, they do breath work. You have beautiful organic farm to table meals. The accommodations are really top notch. But you start with breathwork, you don't jump into the ayahuasca. And even when you start doing ayahuasca before you do it, you have to go to many classes to understand what's happening in your brain, to understand how to work with the medicine, to understand the framework of how you are going to be a partner in your healing. They're not going to throw you out there by yourself. And I feel like any responsible ayahuasca retreat will provide these tools for you because it can be a very scary and intense experience. And without the proper preparation, without the proper tools, it, I think it could probably do more damage than it helps. Okay, let's talk about the actual ayahuasca. So every ceremony is led by a shaman. And then within the ceremony they have multiple helpers. So it's about a six to one ratio. So one helper for every six people. And throughout the ceremony the helpers are there checking in, cleaning up, making sure that you can get to the bathroom, get water, whatever you need. And typically, at least in the experience that I've had, it lasts a couple hours. So it starts at 5:30 and it goes till about 2:30 in the morning, except for the last ceremony, which is a special Colombian tradition which goes until 6:30 till the sunrise. Now the way this worked, at least for me, was that There were roughly 70 people with mattresses all over a large room. And then you have your puke bucket. I wanna talk about the puke for a Second, because this is the thing that everybody tells me that is the reason why they are never, ever gonna do ayahuasca. All right, let's back up. So when you do ayahuasca, there are sort of four main things that can happen to you. One, body reactions. So that could look like vomiting, sweating, shaking, pooping, laughing, crying. Your body will have a reaction. Not everybody has every single reaction. I should also say that. So everybody is different. Everybody is different, but you can have a physical reaction. I'm going to put a pin in the vomiting. I'm going to come back to that. The second thing that could happen is pinta, which are visuals. So you could see things. You could visualize things. You could imagine things. A friend of mine saw that he had laser fingers and was able to move the stars, which I thought was pretty cool. At one point, I was a jaguar in the jungle. So you can see fractals. You can see. What do they call it? Cosmic geometry, Typical psychedelic type stuff. The third thing that can happen are consultas. And consultas are when you get downloads or you get insights or you actually hear actual words being spoken to you. And then the fourth thing that could happen is called the nada. And the nada is when you take a shot and you literally fall dead asleep. And the reason why the nada happens is that the ayahuasca is working on your generational, Your prior generations. Like, it can't even get to you because of all of the damage that it has to deal with in your previous generations. Now, the point of ayahuasca, and again, this will largely depend on your spiritual belief. But I'm just going to convey to you what I was told, which is that the ayahuasca is a spirit. They call it Mama Aya, Mother Ayah, and her role is to heal. So she heals your body, she heals your ancestral line. She. They say that when you take ayah, you heal seven generations back and seven generations forward. But let's talk about the physiological, because I think this is the thing that really freaks people out a lot. Okay, y'. All. Yes. There will be vomit. There is puke. Okay, now, not everyone throws up. Some people don't throw up. I personally am a bit of a puker. So, yes, I do throw up. Is it the funnest thing in the world? No, it is not the funnest thing in the world. However, this is actually what's happening when you are, say, puking or pooping or sweating or shaking. This is based on this idea that the. That A lot of the negative emotions that we feel. And for those of you who have read the Body Keeps a Score, it's very, it's aligned to that philosophy, is that when we have negative emotions, it embeds into our tissue. And so what the ayah does is it is scanning your body and purging out the negativity, the negative emotions, the times that you have betrayed yourself or betrayed others, so that it can eject from your body, so that you can be purified in your soul and in your heart and in your spirit. And the idea here is that when we are born, we have a soul that is unified. And over time, when, you know, bad things happen to us or we make meaning of the world, that somehow is a false or limiting belief. Maybe your belief is I'm not good enough or this is not for me, or I'm not lovable or whatever belief that you have. Essentially it, that belief over time separates you from your soul more and more. And as a result of these limiting beliefs, we then create survival mechanisms like we become over functioning, or we become perfectionists or we become very angry. There are ways that we have learned to cope in the world. And in the course of learning how to cope, we slowly start to feel fractures in our heart. We're separated from our heart. And so the process of ayahuasca is both understanding who you have become as a result of your beliefs, understanding those beliefs, and then reemerging yourself with your soul and ultimately healing your heart. So on a purely physical basis, what this looks like is, yes, there is puke. Now I'm just going to preface this by saying it's not the kind of puke that you might see when like you're sick because you actually are not throwing up any food because you stop eating after at 2, which means by the time you get to ceremony, all the food has been digested. So it's not vomit in the way that you think about vomit, but it can be uncomfortable. But if on the other side of a little bit of discomfort, what you get is emotional freedom, I think it is well worth it. Is it always the most pleasant thing? No, not always. In fact, I will say my last night I felt quite bad for a while. I was actually in a bit of agony because I had this little knot in my left side deep in my gut, which I had, was very clear to me, was a little nugget of self hatred. And I could feel the eye just like digging it out. And I imagined that she was talking to me like, ugh, this is in deep. And frankly, I don't even think it was mine. I think it was generational self hatred. Anyway, eventually, after the shaman worked with me, I was able to vomit it out. I was before that, I was in a bit of pain and I was talking to it and I was like, I don't want you. I don't need you. Get out of me. But when it finally dispelled, I felt this tremendous sense of relief. And frankly, now I just feel. I feel totally liberated. And I feel that I'm able to live my life in a way where I'm. I love myself and that I don't need to hate myself. If you're curious about ayahuasca, but you're freaked out about the vomiting and the pooping part, I totally get it. But I just want to normalize this. Here is the purging is related to emotional purging, and it's not incidental. It's essential because ayahuasca is a purgative. But if you adhere to the notion that trauma and stress live in the body, it is essential for the body to then dispel if we are to be in a healthier emotional state. I'll be honest. The healing isn't tidy. It's not polite. There were people screaming, There were people puking. There was a lot going on. I think it's also true that the body needs a physical release for what it's been carrying, either within your lifetime or in generations previous. Okay, I'm going to share one of the most profound experiences that happened to me last week, because I do think that this might be interesting to people. And look, if this is resonating for you in any way, I'd love to talk to you about it because I think it has helped me personally so much. And if you're out here and any of this is resonating for you and you feel like it could be helpful to you, I'd love to share. Okay, so Wednesday night. Every night has a theme. And Wednesday night was the night of the divine new feminine. It was led by a female shaman. And earlier in the night, I'd taken a shot. I'd actually only taken one shot that night, and some stuff became clear to me. But near the end of the night, I could feel something big coming. And I didn't quite know what it was. And I turned to the helper rose and I said, please send the shaman over. And so the female shaman came over. And while she was coming over, and this is dark at night, it's probably at this point, 1:30 in the morning, I could feel my head compressing and my shoulders compressing. And I just felt like I was in a tight space and I was making these moves, like wriggling down. And the shaman came up to me and she said, what's going on? And I don't know where it came from. It popped out of my mouth. I said, I think I'm going through the birth canal. And she said to me, welcome to the mystery. Anyway, I started wriggling down like I was a baby going through the birth canal. And then she tipped my head back and she started chanting over me and started spritzing me with whatever special things that they spritz. And all of a sudden I just. My head tipped back. It happened so violently. I. There was a bit of a crack in my back and my heart cracked wide open. And this feeling of extreme fear and sobbing started coming out of me. And I looked at her and I said, I'm so scared and I'm so brave. And in that moment, I felt this whoosh coming out of me and I flopped forward and I took this breath. It was like the first breath of life. It was like. Like when a baby enters the world. And it was so clear to me in that moment that I had given birth to myself. Because part of Ayahuasca is also death and rebirth. Death of the ego. Rebirth as a new being, a new being that is unfractured. And in that moment, I felt towards myself the unconditional maternal love that a mother feels for her child. And again, this is going to be very personal. But in my life, I don't know that I ever allowed myself to feel unconditional love. Even my parents, who I love them, they love me, but it never felt completely unconditional. And in that moment, I felt this unconditional love for myself. Like, no matter what I did or how many times I screwed up or whenever I said the wrong thing, there was nothing that it was ever going to shake my love for myself. And that was a really powerful thing. Anyway, I was also sobbing like a crazy person. I was walking out of the. They call it the maloka. And I was sobbing because I found walking to be such a weird phenomenon. I was like, being alive is crazy. Walking is crazy. Where are the boundaries? I feel like I was falling and yet I felt completely renewed. So that is a story of giving birth to myself. But the moment of giving birth to myself gave me the feeling of unconditional love that was not earned, not performance based. Just because I existed and I was beloved. In that moment I felt like I shifted from self surveillance to self trust. And in that moment I felt less fear, I felt less reactivity, I felt more spaciousness. And I realized that it's not that I became a different person, it's that I gave myself permission to be myself. And I know that there are so many of us out here that don't feel okay being who we are. And I'm here to tell you, you are 100% okay with exactly who you are. You are perfect. Now I know this is a bit of a crazy story and there might be some of you out here ready to turn this off, but I think the larger point here is that it's important that we have practices that bring us home to ourselves, that help us to feel the wholeness of who we are, what our birthright is as embodied humans. Embodied spirits on this planet in the form of human beings. I want to bring it to Back to Nonprofit leaders because the reason I loved being in the nonprofit space is I've met some of the most tremendous, generous, compassionate people I've ever met in my life. These are people who are deeply ethical and emotionally sensitive. And the crazy thing about the nonprofit sector is that we ask soft hearted people to operate in brutal systems. We have this combination that just creates system overload. Let me say that again. We ask people with the softest hearts to do the hardest work. And so if this is resonating for you and you're thinking about your own healing, I would say that healing yourself, spending the time, money and energy to heal yourself is not abandoning the mystery. Spending the time, money, and spending the time, money and resources to heal yourself is not abandoning the mission. It's resourcing it. Because so many of us who are doing the work of helping others are light workers and light warriors. And we are fighting the good fight. But it doesn't mean that we need to sacrifice everything. You deserve to come home to yourself. Okay, I want to address a couple other things that might be in people's minds if this is of any interest at all. Question number one, and this is what my parents asked me. Is it a cult? So I'm here to tell you no, it is. This particular place is not a cult. I can't speak for all of the Ayahuasca retreats on the planet, but this particular one is not a cult. It there's no recruitment, there is no belief system, there's no evangelizing. Except for this podcast that I'm sharing right now. And in fact in at Rythmia, they particularly encourage people to use discernment to really figure out the truth of what is right for them. Some people might say, hey, it's just. Is it just doing drugs? No, it's not just doing drugs. So there's a context, there's a ceremony, there's medical oversight and a proper post experience integration. So this is not escapism, it's not a party culture. In fact, this is like the furthest thing from a party drug ever. Can you imagine going to the club and doing a bunch of Ayahuasca party over asap? This experience is for people who are really, who are ready, willing and able to do challenging and structured work. The week that I spent away doing ayahuasca was not at all a relaxing week away. It was emotionally, physically and spiritually deeply challenging. And frankly, it is not for everyone. So just to be clear, this is not something I'm recommending to everyone. It's something that I'm explaining. And if it feels right to you, if this feels like something that you might be curious about, I just wanted to let you know what was out there because I think it can be scary if you don't know what to expect. And I think in the absence of information, we make up information and usually the information is not good. So what this episode really is about is it's not about ayahuasca. What this episode really is about is, as we're heading into 2026, I want you, my dear listener, to think about listening to this when your current way of being is not working for you anymore. It's about recognizing when being good replaces being whole. And it's about giving yourself permission to sit down. So to go back to my God's little hallway monitor. I thought my job was to keep the hallway quiet. And it turns out my real work was learning that I was allowed to rest. So this was a lot. I feel very vulnerable right now. But I also feel good that I can be out of the Ayahuasca closet with you. And if you've listened this far, here's my invitation to you. I'd love you to listen to this episode with curiosity, not with judgment. And again, I'm not an expert, I'm only a two time Ayahuasca user. But I will say, and let me just go back to the other point. This was my second journey. So the first journey that I had was about two and a half years ago. And I found that the effects were quite long lasting in the sense that my general anxiety levels were down. It felt a little bit like doing 10 years of therapy in four days. But the reason that I went back for a second go around is I just felt that there was some deeper work that needed to happen. So if you're listening to this, I'd love for you to really sit and reflect with yourself. Ask yourself, where am I over functioning in my life? Where am I acting as the hallway monitor? And what would healing look like for me? Not for Instagram? If this is resonating with you at all, I'd love for you to share the episode with one other nonprofit leader who looks like they might be fine but may not be. And I want you to hear this. You don't have to earn rest, joy or love through sacrifice. It is your birthright. So thanks so much for listening. If you are at all interested in this journey, I actually have put the link in the show notes to the place where I went to do Ayahuasca. If you if you decide that this is right for you and you book through the link provided, let me know. I'll provide a bonus for you. If you decide that this is an expert step for you and you use the link below to go on your own trip, let me know. And I have a special treat for you in the meantime, y'. All. Also, if this is resonating for you and you have any questions, please feel free to reach out. I love like all Ayahuasca users, I love talking about Ayahuasca. So hit me up riawong.com with ayahuasca in the subject line. By the way, if you don't know how to spell that, it's a Y a H U a S C A Iowasca. And remember friends, as we sign off, healing is not a detour from leadership, it's part of it. So. So have a healthy, lovely, wonderful day and I'll talk to you next week. Hey fundraisers. Looking to nail those big fundraising asks? Check out my big ask gift program at riawong.com bag say goodbye to uncertainty and hello to confidence with my program. Get expert strategies and personalized support to secure those game changing donations. Don't let fear hold you back. Join me and take your fundraising to new heights. We're enrolling now@riawong.com bag. That's riawong.com bag. So if you like big asks and you cannot lie, I'll see you in the program.