#396 - How a Teacher-Turned-CEO Landed Her First Six-Figure Gift

Summary

---

Podcast Summary: Nonprofit Lowdown #396

"How a Teacher-Turned-CEO Landed Her First Six-Figure Gift"

Host: Rhea Wong
Guest: Lucy Madden, CEO of Letters to a Pre-Scientist
Date: July 13, 2026

---

Episode Overview

This episode of Nonprofit Lowdown features an in-depth conversation between host Rhea Wong and Lucy Madden, CEO of Letters to a Pre-Scientist. Lucy shares her journey from being a middle school science teacher to founding and growing her unique nonprofit—which connects under-resourced middle schoolers with STEM professionals via snail mail pen-pal relationships. The core of the episode centers on Lucy's transformation in approach to fundraising, particularly her shift away from grant dependence and towards systematic major gift fundraising—culminating in her securing the organization's first six-figure gift.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Power and Magic of Snail Mail in STEM Education

[00:23]–[04:20]

• Origin Story:
  Lucy recounts launching the pen pal program as a classroom initiative, witnessing its profound impact on students' aspirations and sense of possibility.

  • “I saw real shifts for them in how they were thinking about their futures and what was possible for them.” (Lucy, [00:35])

• Going Analog in a Digital World:
  Lucy discusses why Letters to a Pre-Scientist has intentionally stuck with physical mail over digital communication, even as digital tools proliferate.

  • COVID forced a temporary digital transition, but “overwhelmingly, everyone... wanted the snail mail back.” (Lucy, [02:11])
  • The process of writing and waiting enhances reflection and anticipation, deepening the relationships.

• Unique Value:
  The personal touch and tangible nature of snail mail is especially powerful for youth, many of whom have never received a handwritten letter.

  • “It’s a level of personalization that’s pretty hard to find... especially for middle schoolers.” (Lucy, [03:35])

2. Incorporating Snail Mail Into Fundraising

[04:20]–[05:40]

• Donor Stewardship:
  Letters to a Pre-Scientist sends handwritten postcards (often from students) to donors, creating a meaningful emotional connection.

  • “It’s very special to get a thank you card in a student’s handwriting.” (Lucy, [04:47])

• Host’s Takeaway:

  • “Don’t sleep on snail mail. Get your pen out. Your mother was right. Write a thank you note.” (Rhea, [05:29])

3. Transitioning from Grants to Major Gifts

[05:41]–[09:57]

• Strategic Pivot:
  Lucy made a deliberate decision to deprioritize grants, noting their shrinking availability and high labor cost.

  • “I was just like, I don’t understand how people are cranking out these applications... and have this super low return on investment.” (Lucy, [08:09])

• Momentum in Individual Giving:
  Observed increasing individual and corporate donation streams, including surprise larger individual gifts.

  • “We were starting to see these surprise $1,000, $5,000 gifts come up that... were, like, random, and there wasn’t a lot of... strategy.” (Lucy, [05:57])

• Data-Driven Realization:
  Despite being a small org, they had a large engaged base (16,000+ email list, ~1,000 annual donors).

  • Board buy-in required for the new strategy, shifting from ‘throwing spaghetti at the wall’ to doubling down on what’s working.

4. Major Gift Breakthrough: Landing the First Six-Figure Gift

[10:32]–[15:19]

• Defining "Major Gift":
  For Lucy’s org: $1,000+; she had 10–15 such donors when beginning this journey.

• The Big Win Story:

  • [11:05]: During an ambitious year-end campaign, Lucy reaches out to a recurring but previously under-engaged major donor.
    • “She replied within about 10 minutes: ‘I’d like to cover the gap to your goal.’” (Lucy, [11:14])
  • The donor’s $10,000 gift closed out the campaign—but in subsequent conversation, the opportunity grew.
    • “She just did the math...‘You need $140,000. I think we can do that.’” (Lucy, [12:50])
  • This led to a multi-year, six-figure stock gift—first of its kind for the organization.

• Behind the Scenes:
  Lucy credits her ability to seize this moment to preparation, clarity of vision, coaching and support from Rhea’s program.

  • “I had done a lot of the mindset work, I had done a lot of the work around having clarity about what we needed.” (Lucy, [13:40])
  • Rhea and the community supported everything from creating the proposal to logistics of accepting a stock gift.

5. Internal Shifts: From Transactional to Transformational Fundraising

[15:20]–[19:09]

• Mindset Change:
  • Lucy moved from feeling “icky” about asking for large gifts to embracing it as a relationship-building act.
    • “One shift was from feeling very transactional about major gifts to seeing it as an opportunity to build a relationship and really understanding the value that we bring as well.” (Lucy, [16:11])
• Expanding Possibilities:
  • Being exposed to peers landing significant gifts (“Why not me, then?”) catalyzed her confidence and ambitions.

6. Building and Systematizing a Major Gifts Program

[19:09]–[22:49]

• Toward a System:
  Lucy notes progress: the organization now has more systematic approaches with board engagement and donor conversations.
  • “We now have an agenda that we go through with the board of members... and we’re really inviting people to make a really meaningful gift if they’re a board member.” (Lucy, [19:50])
• Letting Go to Grow:
  As a founder-CEO, Lucy discusses the difficulty (and necessity) of transitioning program leadership so she can focus on external relations and fundraising.
  • “I really recognize that it has to be me telling the story and helping people understand the vision. And that’s the best way that I can serve the organization at this moment.” (Lucy, [21:08])
  • She humorously describes her new role as “the program’s grandma.” ([21:50])

7. Advice for Other Nonprofit Leaders on Investing in Fundraising Coaching

[22:49]–[27:07]

• Cost vs. Payoff:
  Lucy validates concerns about the expense of coaching programs but frames it as a catalyst for accountability and transformation.

  • “If you don’t make the money back, basically then it’s free, sort of thing.” (Lucy, [25:10])

• Readiness and Engagement:

  • Success depends on willingness to prioritize and engage fully.
    • “If this is a medium to low priority for you this upcoming year, it’s not a good time to invest.” (Lucy, [23:59])
    • “This is not a somebody’s-doing-it-for-you program. This is like a knowledge-building and advice and support and system-building program.” (Lucy, [26:02])

• Value of Community:

  • The peer community and coaching was crucial: “It can get very lonely... the peer community combined with having access to the coaches is... a really powerful sort of combination for really upskilling.” (Lucy, [26:27])

---

Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• “Don’t sleep on snail mail. Get your pen out. Your mother was right. Write a thank you note.”
  — Rhea Wong, [05:29]

• “She just did the math...‘You need $140,000. I think we can do that.’ And I truthfully, in that moment, I have no idea how I reacted because I was so shocked.”
  — Lucy Madden, [12:50]

• “One shift was from feeling very transactional about major gifts to seeing it as an opportunity to build a relationship and really understanding the value that we bring as well, not seeing it as so much just like a charity case.”
  — Lucy Madden, [16:11]

• “If we are willing to show up bigger, ask bigger, be on a bigger stage... we get bigger results.”
  — Rhea Wong, [19:09]

• “This is not a somebody’s-doing-it-for-you program...if you need to develop a system... then having that person to talk to... is really valuable.”
  — Lucy Madden, [26:02]

---

Key Takeaways for Listeners

• Analog, Personal Touch Win: Handwritten mail can be a powerful relationship- and donation-building tool—don't underestimate old school methods.

• Fundraising Strategy Must Fit Org Capacity: Prioritizing and doubling down on what’s working, rather than “doing everything,” pays off.

• Mindset Matters: Believing bigger gifts are possible and seeing oneself—and the org—as deserving is essential for major gift fundraising.

• Major Gifts Depend on Relationships: Success comes from clear, confident storytelling and genuine connections, not transactional asks.

• Investing in Education/Coaching Yields ROI: For nonprofit leaders serious about growth, support and skill-building can outstrip the initial cost—provided you engage.

• Letting Go Can Unlock Growth: Founder-CEOs must be willing to offload program responsibilities to focus externally and maximize impact.

---

For More

Lucy Madden and Letters to a Pre-Scientist can be reached via info in the episode show notes.
Final advice: “Do not sleep on snail mail—send a letter!” ([28:41])

---

Transcript

[A]

Hey, podcast listeners, it's Rhea Wong with you once again with nonprofit Lowdown. Today I'm excited to invite my friend and guest, Lucy Madden. She is the CEO of Letters to a Praise Scientist. And today we're going to talk all about the transformation that she experienced doing major gift fundraising. So, Lucy, welcome to the show.

[B]

Thank you so much, Rhea.

[A]

So before we get started, tell us a little bit about your organization because I find the origin story to be so inspiring. From middle science teacher to CEO, what inspired you? Tell me about this organization.

[B]

It's a snail mail pen pal program where we work directly with teachers in middle schools in under resourced communities in the US and we pair each of their students with somebody who works in a STEM field from around the world and they exchange letters with each other. Throughout the academic school year, I hosted this program with my students. I loved it and my students loved it. And I saw real shifts for them and how they were thinking about their futures and what was possible for them. And after hosting the program for about five years, I decided and helping a couple of other teachers host the program in their classroom, I decided to try to make it into an actual organization so that lots more kids could participate. So I left the classroom and we went through the process of becoming a nonprofit. We became a nonprofit in 2019. The 2019, 2020 school year was a really interesting snail mail pen pal program. And we have been growing a little bit since then. So it's been a super fun journey and a very challenging one. And my role has changed a lot throughout the years and excited to, to see what's next for us too.

[A]

Yeah. Before we get into the details of the fundraising, because that's of course we're nosy and that's what we want to know about the snail mail because I just, it's, I just got chills thinking about it because I think we're all so focused on digital, right. We're sending emails, we're on social media, we're texting. But what are the advantages that you're seeing in your organization of going analog, of really going old school?

[B]

Yeah. So I think we've always known it was like really special. And then Covid actually kind of gave us some proof about the model because people would always ask me, why don't you switch to email so much faster? And blah, blah, blah. And I always had this inclination that this ML was really special. And I saw how it really, I was teaching back in a time where not all kids had devices necessarily, but I still noticed that having to Wait for the letter to come back. Really increased their engagement and anticipation. But Covid forced us to do a virtual program for a year, an electronic program for the year, because that was the only feasible method when kids were at home. And overwhelmingly, everyone, the STEM professionals and the students and the teachers, wanted the snail mail back. And so I think now there's a lot of research that's coming out about the power of handwritten letters and how it forces you to think a little bit more about what you're writing and really internalize things. It's almost like a reflective practice for both the students and the STEM professionals to just stop for a minute and think about what they want to say. And it's really, really a modality that allows the relationships to go deep really fast. Like I said, it's almost like a diary, like journaling exercise between the two. So we find that the pairs share things that you wouldn't necessarily share in a first or second email or conversation, but it just feels more right in this snail mail model. And then, yeah, layer on learning how to write a letter, format and address an envelope. Most middle schoolers don't know how to do that. And then this anticipation piece of getting this super personalized thing that's written with somebody's handwriting for you. When you see a classroom of kids all holding their letters, there are different shaped envelopes and different colors and different stickers on them and different handwriting. And it's just. It's so clear this was made for you. And I think it's a level of personalization that's pretty hard to find in this, especially for middle schoolers.

[A]

And let's talk about this briefly, too, because I think I have really been pushing people to zig while others are zagging. So I feel like a lot of us are putting a lot of efforts into what's the right email that I send or what's the right subject line. And I think that because we're all so used to getting email, it's delightful to get a personalized letter. So I'm curious, have you incorporated this sort of love of snail mail into your fundraising?

[B]

Actually, I have one right here. So we have these. These are for our monthly donors, these postcards that are. We. We actually get our students involved as well in writing them. So we do a think a thon event where we have our board members and our students and our teachers and our staff all involved in thanking donors that donated the previous year. And for as many people as we have addresses for, we try to send them snail mail thank you. And it's, I can say from a personal experience, but it's very special to get a thank you card from in a student's handwriting. And so that's the main way we've used snail mail in our fundraising, but we try to do that every year.

[A]

I love that. So if y' all are listening and you're thinking, what's one takeaway from this conversation already? Don't sleep on snail mail. Get your pen out. Your mother was right. Write a thank you note.

[B]

Yes, exactly.

[A]

All right, so, Lucy, let's get into this. So you and I have now worked together for almost a year now. Is that right? And it's been so great curious from your perspective, why did you decide to start focusing on major gifts when you looked at your overall portfolio?

[B]

So I knew that I wanted to transition as far away from grants as I could, and I was seeing a lot of momentum building, especially in our individual giving and revenue streams. And so we have a pretty strong monthly giving program with about 500 members, but the average gift is about $5 a month. And so together, they really provide this really nice foundational, sustaining support. But we were starting to see these surprise $1,000, $5,000 gifts come up that, frankly, were, like, random, and there wasn't a lot of, like, strategy going involved. And so that combined with the size of our email list, which is about 16,000 people, we have about a thousand people that donate to our organization each year, which I didn't really realize was a lot compared to an organization my size. But in talking to people like you, I realize this is a lot of people. My operating budget last year was 500,000. For the first time, most of the people were giving at, like, $100 or less. But then there were these, like, surprise $3,000 gifts or and like, more. My friend told. My friend was a pen pal, and she told me about your organization. And so I decided to give this thousand dollar gift from my dad. Recognizing that there was a lot of potential and that I didn't know what the next steps were, I felt I got us to here. But I don't have a lot of formal training in fundraising. I don't have a lot of experience working with other fundraisers because it's just me. So I really, I needed support to figure out what the right next moves were and how to systematize the strategy.

[A]

And you know what I think is so interesting and original about what you're saying is the fact that you were consciously trying to step away from grants, because I think what we're seeing in the ecosystem now is that it is harder to get grants. Grants and foundations are really pulling back. And yet at the same time we have this tremendous need and kudos to, to you for seeing the writing on the wall early and transitioning into individual.

[B]

I think for me this was a capacity issue. I was just like, I don't understand how people are cranking out these applications. I don't have time to do these extensive applications and have this super low return on investment with everything else that's on my plate. I'm responsible for the business operations, the program leadership and all of the fundraising. And so I think I had to really prioritize early and I saw that we were getting a lot of momentum with, for us as corporate partners and individual. And so I was just like, that was, I think a major shift for me last year was just like, focus on doing the things that are already working and stop throwing spaghetti at the wall. Was like for the first few years of our organization we were just, let's try everything. And then really having the taking a moment to be like, okay, before we just keep doing everything, can we just look at what's been working? And then how can I decrease the amount of things I'm doing so that I can do the things I'm doing better? And that, that was a major shift for me where I did have to get my board on board and I'm still getting my board on board where I'm like, are you guys, you guys are understanding I'm not applying for grants anymore? Like, and it's, it's taking some time, honestly to get them fully aligned with the strategy because I think they're a little nervous and everybody wants diversified funding streams. But the reality is that we have a diversified funding strategy. We have a large and growing number of corporate gifts, a large and growing number of individual gifts. And within individual gifts we have these sort of monthly giving and major gifts and then these sort of campaigns that we do. So to me it feels diversified enough and I just never could really get on board with the foundation grants.

[A]

But honestly, yeah, look, I think they, a lot of organizations start off with foundation grants because it for new organizations before they really have an email, before they have an audience. Yeah, yeah, that's your startup money. But I think to your point, individuals at least makes the most sense to me because you don't have to present to a board that you're talking to the decision maker a lot of the time. And as we look at all of the money given philanthropically we know that the vast majority are given by individuals. So why wouldn't you develop a strategy for the people who give the most money? Duh. Go where the money is.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay, let's talk about your major gift strategy. So when you and I first started working together, you had gotten a couple of thousand dollars gifts here, maybe 5,000 here randomly. the point that we started working together, what was, to your mind, a major

[B]

individual gift, a $1,000 gift or more?

[A]

Okay. And how many folks did you have giving at that level?

[B]

Probably between 10 and 15.

[A]

Okay. So pretty quickly after we started working together, you got a big win, so I'd love for you to walk us through that big win.

[B]

Yes, I. We had set a pretty ambitious goal for our end of year campaign, which launched on Giving Tuesday and ran through the end of the calendar year. And as part of that campaign, I was reaching out to most of the people who had given larger gifts to our organization in the past and inviting them to participate. There was a particular donor who's not on my email list, which means that she's not getting any of my updates throughout the year, but who consistently has given us a major gift at that $1,000 threshold or more year over year. And so I reached out to her in mid December to share where we were at, what we were trying to do, and. And she replied within about 10 minutes, I'd like to cover the gap to your goal. And so that was, like, a $10,000 gift that she was pledging, which was already her largest gift, and she was getting us all the way to our goal by December 15th. And so I called her and just to thank her, this is not someone I had ever spoken to on the phone before. She seemed a little thrown off by me calling her, but I was like, I really just want to thank you. And she was like, I'm in a meeting right now, but let's talk tomorrow. And I was like, I don't need. I just wanted to say thank you. I don't need to take out more time on your calendar. And then she just sent me a calendar invite for the next day. And I was like, okay, I guess we're taking. It was during that conversation where I painted the picture of what she had already helped us accomplish with making that $10,000 gift and helping us get to that initial goal. And I shared what we were trying to do the next school year with her. There was a lot of work that had led up to me being able to succinctly explain that to anyone. We Were implementing our first year of our first strategic plan. And I could clearly say, next year we're trying to add two program managers in order to be able to add X number of students. And she just did the math. She was like, so if your goal is 70,000 and now it's for one program manager, you're getting two. You need $140,000. I think we can do that. And I truthfully, in that moment, I have no idea how I reacted because I was so shocked. And then it was, okay, I gotta go, let's talk in the new year. And so I just left that conversation. Like, did that really just happen? And was so thankful to have your support and the bag of support because I really didn't know how to translate that casual thing she said into what translated into multi year six figure stock gift, which is the first time our organization has ever received a stock gift. And it was shocking in the moment, but actually we were really ready for it. I had done a lot of the mindset work, I had done a lot of the work around having clarity about what we needed. Was just able to make the most of that moment with her and then follow up on the next steps with y' all support. I truly, I don't know what I would have done if I hadn't gotten in bag, but I don't think I would have actually gotten that gift because I don't just think I would have known what to do next.

[A]

I remember this moment fondly because I think I got maybe a slack message from you. And you were like, I think I maybe accidentally got us into your.

[B]

That is like, well, that's what happened.

[A]

Sounds like that's the best accident. So I think we were able to help walk through the conversation. We helped prepare the budget, as I recall, to be able to.

[B]

You're like, you need to make a proposal. I was like, okay, like a grant proposal. And you're like, no, not exactly. And then you help me, right, Create like a template. And then we revised the template together. And then I prepared, yeah, you help me prepare for the call with her. And then, yeah, there was a lot of even like talking to the peer group about what platforms do you all use except stock gifts and that. Because then there was a lot of research involved. Right. About, okay, how do I actually accept this gift? And so, yeah, so from start to finish, you all were supporting in many different ways. And that. That's been huge for us.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Was certainly not in my budget to get $140,000 individual gift this year.

[A]

Those are the surprises I love. So talk to me a little bit, Lucy, because I think when I think about your trajectory, the biggest difference I see is you. I think you. Over the last couple of months that we've worked together, I've really seen a shift in how you're showing up the level of confidence that you have in having these conversations. So can you tell a little bit about you? Have you noticed a shift in yourself and if so, what is that shift?

[B]

Definitely, I think there's sort of two shifts actually. When I went into the bag program, I thought that the main shift I needed was just like dealing with some money stuff that I had personally and feeling very icky when talking about a lots of sums of money from individuals and feeling like it was very transactional and really being very averse to that. And so I think I was really stifling myself from being open to those conversations in general because just didn't feel right. And so I think one shift was really learning more about your sort of like consent based fundraising and seeing how or like internally internalizing how it can feel truly relational and not so transactional. And yeah, so there's some differences in strategy that we started doing even with like our board members and stuff where I wouldn't at the end of calls I would feel like, oh, that was really great. I learned a lot of things about them that I know before and we got a larger gift or things like that. So I think one of the shifts was from feeling very transactional about major gifts to seeing it as an opportunity to build a relationship and really understanding the value that we bring as well, not seeing it as so much just like a charity case and realizing that there's value to the donors too and investing in our, in our work. And I think the second shift was really expanding what I realized was possible. And as I was thinking about this call, I was realizing this parallel between my program, which is like all about expanding students ideas of what's possible for themselves by providing them really concrete examples of things they could do. And that's exactly what the peer learning group did for me. I would sit on the weekly calls and be like, oh, you can get gifts via stock. Oh, you can get a hundred thousand dollars for one person made with one ask. And like slowly those things just collected inside of me and translated into me realizing like, okay, why not me then? Like why not our organization? In this program, those things are equally as valuable as these other causes that other people are fundraising for. And, and so I think that really translated into the confidence That I went into these conversations with, which I'm sure landed different for donors, where it was just much more. Here's what we are. Do you care about this? Here's an invitation. But I'm not gonna try to weirdly backdoor you into giving me a lot of money. And also, this is a lot of money. And this is why it's worth it to invest that in us. Here's what we're gonna do with it. And not being shy about that and just hearing so many examples of wins from the group really helped shift my. Just the mindset about what was possible for us.

[A]

Oh, I'm so glad to hear you say that. Cause I often think that our external reality is a reflection of our internal confidence. Right. If we are willing to show up bigger, ask bigger, be on a bigger stage, play a bigger game, we get bigger results. So I'm so glad that you said that. One thing I'm wondering, too, Lucy, is now that we've worked together for a year, how is the organization different with respect to major gifts? It wasn't just this one gift. You've seen consistent growth in your major giving program. What does that look like? Because at the beginning, you said you were really looking for a system. Have you built that system?

[B]

Yeah. So I think that we're working towards the system. I think it's not fully in place yet, but we have implemented more of a system with, for example, our board, where before it was a little bit passive, like, everybody should make a give. And we really. We now have an agenda that we go through with the board of members. And my board president is helping with those conversations. And we're really inviting people to make a really meaningful gift if they're a board member and celebrating whatever that level is. But being much more intentional about them seeing behind the curtain, too, like what gifts we're receiving and what we can do with different levels of investment, and them seeing me go out of my comfort zone to ask for these gifts. And so I think system is coming together. I think that I'm hoping in the next six months that I'm really going to have a lot more capacity to focus on really making the system, because I'm present. I just hired a program director, and I'm in the process of offboarding the program leadership to her. And so that is really. That was a really hard decision for me because the program is my baby, and I feel like I'm giving my baby away. But I really recognize that it has to be me telling the story and helping people understand the vision. And that's the best way that I can serve the organization at this moment. And when I'm. Once the program is functioning without me, I'm anticipating a lot more capacity and then making this more structured approach to major giving is a priority for us for this upcoming sort of six months.

[A]

Yeah. And Lucy, I really want to congratulate you because I know founders in particular have a pretty tough time letting go of program because it is the thing that they fell in love with. It is the reason why they're there. And there's nobody better than you to be out in the world telling the story, meeting the people representing the brand. Kudos. And also, yes, I know it can be hard.

[B]

Yes, it's very hard. But I've just been very transparent about that with my program director too. And she's don't worry, I'm going to be the program's grandma. I'm going to take really good care of her. And so we're just joking our way through the challenges of the present.

[A]

Yeah. One thing that I don't know if it's helpful to you, but I also went through this transition of letting go of a program. And so what was helpful to me is to be. And look, you're obviously a much sweeter person than I am, but I was like, if you need to beat me back into my box, let me know. Because it's really hard to not get my sticky little fingers in it.

[B]

Totally.

[A]

And because you're the CEO, people are going to want to be like, oh, I feel like I can't tell her to buzz off her hands off the wheel.

[B]

Yes. I think that will be like the next step. The first step is getting everything out of my head than I'm just doing for the past 10 years and getting it in a place where somebody can actually do it without my help. And then the next step is like actually stepping out of the way so they can do it.

[A]

Yep. So, last question. For me, this really has been about seeing your growth, supporting pre scientists to the next level. But if folks are out here listening and they're considering enrolling in the big askive program or considering working with me, what would you tell them? Because I think typically the two things I hear the most is, oh, we can't afford it or this is not a good time, we don't have the bandwidth, what would you say to those two objections?

[B]

Yeah, I think in terms of the investment, it is a big investment and that feeds into the other problem, which is like when you make a big investment it's accountability. And so when I decided I'm going to make this investment every month, I was like, I'm going to be at those weekly calls, I'm making a choice that I'm going all in on this and I'm going to show up and I'm going to be present and I'm going to be in the Slack channel. I'm going to do the coaching calls and I for me they go hand in hand. As I've already mentioned, I have a lot of roles in my organization. I'm constantly prioritizing. And so there are certain times of year where I couldn't prioritize as much doing the basket program. But there are other times of year where I spent a lot of time thinking about it. And so I think that the investment level is well worth it for the level of individualized attention that you get. And the peer learning community has been really huge for me. And that level of investment just makes the accountability fairly easy because there's always going to be a thousand things on our plate. And so I think if this is a medium to low priority for you this upcoming year, it's not a good time to invest. There's so much else. If I was right now try I'm hiring three staff. I'm on, I'm onboarding a program director. Right now is not a good time for me to be starting a new program. But last year things had been relatively stable for me for a few years. I was like looking for an increase, looking for an upskill and it was like the right moment for me to be recognizing and making an investment. And I think like if your organization only has a few full time people, which is my, was my organization situation and I was the only staff member who wasn't 100% on program before we started. All of the consultant investments seem really big at first. It's a big adjustment to your budget for sure. If Your organization has $400,000 budget, it is a big investment to be investing any amount of thousands of dollars per month in something. And so I think that the, you're if you don't make the, if you don't make the money back basically then it's free sort of thing. Was important for my board to understand, to get kind of their heads around it and just gave me peace of mind where I'm like I'm making the best guess of what I need at this moment in time based on what I know about what we're, what our goals are and what my skills are and that's all I can do. And then I'm just going to try it and I'm going to go all in on it and I'm going to just do my best, then we'll see. And I think for me there's been some investments like that with other things that have not paid off in that, that respect. And, and so it, it's definitely figuring out what you need and, and then giving it a good faith effort and not just being like, now I have this. This is not a somebody's doing it for you program. Right. This is like a knowledge building and advice and support and system building program. And if what you need right now is somebody to do things for you, this is probably not the right thing. But if you need to develop a system in order to be able to eventually delegate or to just do things more effectively or just to have support as you're trying to figure out exactly what your major gifts pipeline is going to look like, then having that person to talk to who knows what they're talking about is really bad people, most people are probably like me and they're the only person on their leadership team. And so it can get very lonely. And so that's why I think the peer community combined with having access to the coaches is a really powerful sort of combination for really upskilling.

[A]

Yeah, and I'm really glad you said that, Lucy, because you're absolutely right. This is not the program where it's like I'm going to sign up and set it and forget it. This is really designed for. I am ready to take it to the next level. I am ready to devote the time, the energy, the money. And when you do it, you get results like you've gotten. I think in 1 gift you 10 x' ed your investment. You know, right there we can say like the proof is in the pudding. Sure, Lucy, we are wrapping up. Is there anything that I haven't asked about that you feel would be important for folks to know?

[B]

Just to say thank you for being there for us and being like so responsive and always having an answer or finding an answer. And the community is very engaged. I think my. I have some experience in other slack communities that are far less engaged. I think people really want to help each other, want to celebrate each other and want to learn from each other. And that makes the program really special. And so I'm appreciative to everyone for their generosity and for you for creating the space for it.

[A]

And I want to thank you, Lucy, because you've been such an amazing member of our community. And it's been such an honor to support you and to see your growth and your progress and. Yes. And the money. Can't forget about the money.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Thank you, Lucy. For more information about letters to a pre scientist, we'll make sure to put all of your info in the show notes. If folks want to learn more about it, if they want to get in touch with you, this is a fantastic organization. And by the way, if you're listening to this, do not sleep on snail mail, y'.

[B]

All.

[A]

Send a letter.

[B]

Send a letter.