Demented Little Tango with Vinson Cunningham

Summary

Normal Gossip Episode Summary: "Demented Little Tango with Vincent Cunningham"

Release Date: May 28, 2025
Host: Rachel Hampton
Guest: Vincent Cunningham, Staff Writer at The New Yorker and Co-Host of Critics at Large Podcast

---

Introduction

In this engaging episode of Normal Gossip, host Rachel Hampton welcomes guest Vincent Cunningham to delve into a fictional yet relatable tale set within the competitive environment of Briarwood Academy's annual eighth-grade fundraiser. The episode intertwines humorous anecdotes with sharp social commentary, capturing the essence of suburban elite dynamics.

---

Main Story: The Briarwood Academy Fundraiser Drama

Ellen and Hazel’s Frenemy Relationship

The narrative centers around two competitive parents, Ellen and Hazel, whose rivalry extends into their children's participation in the Briarwood Academy fundraiser. Ellen, a "champagne socialist," and Hazel, an "espresso martini capitalist," have been entangled in petty disputes for nearly two decades, primarily over their children's involvement in school activities.

• Ellen’s Characterization: Described as a West Village native with a penchant for meditation and CBD gummies, Ellen embodies a complex mix of competitiveness and self-improvement. She is portrayed as someone striving to suppress her aggressive nature, especially in her role as a parent.

• Hazel’s Characterization: In contrast, Hazel runs a successful boutique PR agency and is characterized by her flamboyant social lifestyle, often seen mingling with the elite at high-profile events.

The Fundraiser Escalates

Briarwood Academy’s fundraiser becomes the battleground for Ellen and Hazel’s ongoing competition. The event features multiple classes (A, B, and C) engaging in various fundraising activities, from bake sales to silent auctions.

• Class A vs. Class B: Class A, representing Ellen's daughter, initially engages in organic fundraising efforts. However, as Class B (Hazel’s son) secures high-value donations through nepotism—such as private dinners with Broadway stars and exclusive culinary classes—tensions rise. Vincent remarks, “It’s all cheating. Obviously it should be.”

• Ellen’s Suspicious Actions: Witnessing the dubious activities of Hazel's contributions, Ellen takes it upon herself to investigate and eventually exposes the unethical practices by identifying irregularities in donation spreadsheets. She sends a polite yet accusatory email to the school, leading to the revocation of Hazel's contributions.

Unexpected Victory of Class C

Despite the orchestrated rivalry between Classes A and B, it is ultimately Class C that triumphs by raising the highest amount purely through student-organized efforts, earning the privilege to choose the fundraiser's theme. This outcome underscores the futility of parental interference and highlights the merit of genuine student initiative.

• Final Announcement: Rachel narrates the suspenseful moment when Class C unexpectedly wins with a total of $23,000, surpassing both Class A and B. Vincent humorously points out the simplicity and innocence of Class C’s methods compared to the sabotaging tactics of the other classes.

Notable Quotes:

• Vincent Cunningham ([05:17]): “A guy that I sort of knew, like a friend of a friend, which is the perfect person to like, hear gossip about in high school.”
• Vincent Cunningham ([19:54]): “It's all cheating. Obviously it should be.”

---

Side Story: Ellen’s Halloween Skeletons and Patricia

Parallel to the main storyline, the episode explores Ellen’s personal aspirations and neighborhood dynamics through her obsession with installing 12-foot-tall skeletons for Halloween, symbolizing her desire for acceptance and recognition within her community.

Installation of Skeletons

After persistent efforts, Ellen successfully installs two massive skeletons outside her co-op in the West Village, garnering attention and becoming a local attraction. This act represents Ellen's attempt to blend her personal interests with community approval.

Interaction with Patricia

Patricia, Ellen’s glamorous and somewhat notorious neighbor, becomes a focal point when her sons' prank involving the skeletons leads to a minor police incident. Despite initial tensions, Ellen handles the situation gracefully, cementing her goodwill with Patricia.

• Patricia’s Characterization: Described as “old money rich” with a carefree attitude and a penchant for unconventional behavior, Patricia adds depth to the neighborhood’s social tapestry.

• Concluding Interaction: Ellen and Patricia share a humorous and bonding moment over marijuana, highlighting the complexities of their relationship. Vincent notes, “[Patricia] is still our favorite in this story.”

Notable Quotes:

• Vincent Cunningham ([29:32]): “How would you strike up a conversation with your glamorous divorcee stoner neighbor?”
• Vincent Cunningham ([46:13]): “Ellen, shout out to you.”

---

Conclusion

The episode wraps up by reflecting on the various characters' motivations and the outcomes of their actions. Ellen’s journey from competitive parent to someone who values genuine efforts over superficial success underscores the episode's central themes of integrity and community. Meanwhile, Patricia remains an enigmatic figure who brings a touch of levity and unpredictability to the storyline.

Final Thoughts:

• Vincent Cunningham ([46:15]): “Buy back the block, et cetera.”
• Rachel Hampton ([46:19]): “It's true.”

The interplay between Ellen’s personal growth and the broader social dynamics at Briarwood Academy offers listeners a humorous yet insightful look into the often absurd lengths parents go to secure their children's success, all while navigating personal vendettas and community expectations.

---

Additional Elements

Advertisements and Promotions: Throughout the episode, advertisements for Progressive Insurance and booking.com are seamlessly integrated into the narrative, maintaining the podcast's entertaining and informative tone without disrupting the storytelling flow.

Credits: The episode concludes with acknowledgments to the production team, co-creators, and contributors, emphasizing the collaborative effort behind Normal Gossip.

---

Join the Conversation:
Listeners are encouraged to share their own gossip stories via email or voicemail and to support the podcast through various platforms, including Instagram and TikTok. For more information or to purchase merchandise, visit normalgossip.komi.io.

---

This episode of Normal Gossip masterfully blends humor with social satire, offering a captivating narrative that highlights the peculiarities of elite suburban life and the unintended consequences of parental competition. Vincent Cunningham’s insightful commentary enriches the storytelling, making it a must-listen for fans of witty and relatable gossip.

Transcript

[Rachel Hampton]

This is Ira Glass, the host of this American Life. So much is changing so rapidly right.

[Vincent Cunningham]

Now with President Trump in office.

[Rachel Hampton]

It feels good to pause for a moment sometimes and look around at what's what to try and do that. We've been finding these incredible stories about right now that are funny and have fueling and you get to see people everywhere adapting and making sense of this new America that we find ourselves in. If you haven't listened in a while, I honestly think these are some of the best stories we've ever done. This is American Life. Every week, wherever you get your podcasts. Hello and welcome to Normal Gossip. I'm your host, Rachel Hampton, and in each episode of this podcast, we're gonna bring you an anonymous morsel of gossip from the real world. We have only got two more episodes of season eight after this week, if you can believe it. But have no fear, if you have been listening to the past few episodes or following us on Instagram ormalgossip, then you know that this September, Ciara and I are bringing Normal Gossip to nine different cities. We are stopping in New York, Boston, Seattle, Portland, Oregon, Denver, Dallas, Austin, Chicago and Minneapolis. Tickets went on sale to the public on Friday, May 9th. So that means that if you are listening right now in this moment and live in any of those cities, you can go buy a ticket [e-mail] Every show has exclusive VIP tickets that include a meet and greet with Ciara and I. So I hope you're all workshopping what delicious little tidbits of gossip are gonna bring us. I know we're close to four months out, but a little birdie did tell me that Minneapolis, Boston and Portland are selling particularly fast. So if you live in those cities and have been considering buying a ticket, I do it soon. That is all the housekeeping for today's show. Now onto the Gossip. Today I'm so excited to be joined by one of my absolute favorite writers in the whole wide world, Vincent Cunningham. Vincent is a staff writer at the New Yorker, where he's written about theater and television. He's also a co host of Critics at Large, which is the New Yorker's weekly culture podcast. Last year he published a gorgeous novel called Great Expectations. Yes, there is another very famous novel with that title, but let's be real here, Vincent's is better. It's a semi autobiographical novel about a young black man working on the historical presidential campaign of a black senator from Illinois. Yes, I know that sounds familiar. Yes, it is who you think it is. Yes, it is so good. It came out in paperback and I truly think everyone should go out and buy it right now. But without further ado, here's the man, the myth, the legend himself, Vincent. Hello. Hello.

[Vincent Cunningham]

Hey.

[Rachel Hampton]

Thank you so much for joining me.

[Vincent Cunningham]

This is my total pleasure. This is the best to be on a podcast with somebody I already like to talk to.

[Rachel Hampton]

Joy, I'm so excited to gossip with you. I already know that you're good at gossip. Cause I've heard you gossip before.

[Vincent Cunningham]

Wow. I can't even like, pretend on this podcast that I don't do that.

[Rachel Hampton]

Well. Perfect. Because I have to ask you, what's your relationship with gossip? And we love honesty and transparency on this podcast.

[Vincent Cunningham]

Well, as you just exposed for me, sometimes I do in fact, gossip. I do still feel though that. And maybe the reason that I do it, when I feel empowered and equipped to do so, is that generally I am not a good receiver of gossip. I feel like I don't know what it is. Maybe I have, like, cop energy. Maybe I have, like, church boy energy. Whatever it is, people tend not to tell me, like, just like weird, lurid secrets. Which is, of course, the fuel of all good causes. I don't know. Or it's taken me a while for that to be the condition of my life. I often analogize it to this. You know, there's just a big party, and then you learn that there's cocaine in the bathroom. No one has ever told me about the cocaine. I never know that there's drugs. I'm always the one from whom it is hidden in plain sight.

[Rachel Hampton]

Okay. Having been to a party with you, I can pretty confidently say that you don't have cop energy. But I am gonna give you a chance to prove your gossip credentials. A little birdie told me you have some gossip for me.

[Vincent Cunningham]

I do. A guy that I sort of knew, like a friend of a friend, which is the perfect person to like, hear gossip about in high school. Went to another, a different private school in New York City. And these are schools where you always kind of know other people in your grade, even though they don't go to your school. You go to a party, they're there. They're like people from other schools in this, like, network of private schools are always kind of drifting in and out of your consciousness. This kid was also a party promoter in high school and a kid who, even when we were 16, 17, was throwing parties, securing venues.

[Rachel Hampton]

How is a 16 year old securing venues?

[Vincent Cunningham]

Listen, because of his rich parents. So he got in our senior year, expelled from A school not far from my school. And I have a friend who was in the cafeteria at this school on the day in question. This kid, we'll call him Daniel.

[Rachel Hampton]

Okay?

[Vincent Cunningham]

Daniel busts in to the cafeteria with a cigarette between his forefinger and middle finger, yelling, fuck Blank school. Fuck all the various administrators of blank school. Fuck Dean of students who is hot on his heels. As this occurred. Daniel, before he can be stopped, jumps up onto a chair and then onto a table, gives his sort of final will and testament about the school. He's going out in a blaze of glory. The dean of student accosts him and drags him out of the cafeteria.

[Rachel Hampton]

Oh, my God.

[Vincent Cunningham]

Now, this is a true story because I knew someone who was on the scene. But as these things occur, the legend grows again. As I mentioned, this kid was a very rich guy. So over the next months and years, this legend lived on in New York City private schools that he paid off a cab driver early that morning, drove it onto the grounds of the school, drove it through the gates, onto the middle of the green, crashed into a gate, and started his stampede of glory, which ended in this cafeteria.

[Rachel Hampton]

Oh, my God. Wait, so why did Daniel decide to go on a rampage? Why was he like, fuck this school.

[Vincent Cunningham]

Because he had gotten away with everything that it was possible to get away with.

[Rachel Hampton]

Oh, it was just a power trip.

[Vincent Cunningham]

And then he finally got kicked out of school and he said, you know what? I'm tearing this motherfucker down.

[Rachel Hampton]

Renting a cab for a day just to come into your cafeteria to say, fuck all of you. I mean, I'm gonna be honest, that's how I wanted to go out of high school too, Vincent. That was incredible gossip. And also, you managed to perfectly sync up with the gossip that I'm about to tell you.

[Vincent Cunningham]

Oh, my God.

[Rachel Hampton]

Are you ready? Yes. Normal gossip is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever find yourself playing the budgeting game? Well, with the name your price tool from Progressive, you can find options that fit your budget and potentially lower your bills. Try [e-mail] Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Price and coverage match limited by state law. Not available in all states today. Our friend refrain is named Ellen. And Ellen is in her mid to late 40s. And maybe one of the most important things to know about Ellen is that she has lived in Manhattan and specifically in the West Village for her entire life. Ellen's vibe is champagne socialist. Okay, I understand both of Ellen's daughters attended a private K12, but she also donated to Bernie Sanders and AOC. She contains multitudes. Are you familiar with this vibe?

[Vincent Cunningham]

Ellen is, I mean, a legend in my own mind already. I know her. I see her.

[Rachel Hampton]

What are you seeing?

[Vincent Cunningham]

Well, she wears loose clothing. She wears black leather flats. This year she's moved on to the the two great trends of 2025. The comfortable ballet flat or the simple Mary Jane. She wears statement jewelry, rings on top of rings Ellen owns. So she has a ring drawer.

[Rachel Hampton]

You're right. You're right, Vincent, you have perfectly described Ellen. Like a lot of parents, Ellen's life, like, revolves around her daughter's school, which is a private gate through 12.

[Vincent Cunningham]

Okay.

[Rachel Hampton]

It's the kind of school that has, like, multiple kilns for the ceramics classes. They've got a 500 square foot greenhouse so that they can bring nature directly to the students.

[Vincent Cunningham]

Yeah.

[Rachel Hampton]

For the purposes of this story, I'm going to be calling this school Briarwood Academy. Ellen's oldest daughter just graduated from Briarwood, while her youngest daughter just started eighth grade there. And Ellen isn't really looking forward to the school year for a few different reasons. The first one is that her oldest daughter has decided to take a gap year before she starts at Stanford. Which would be all well and good, except that instead of backpacking around Europe or, like, building schools in South America, this child has decided to spend this gap year at home interning for one of Ellen's longtime frenemies, Hazel.

[Vincent Cunningham]

What does Hazel do? Oh, no.

[Rachel Hampton]

Well, are you someone who avoids having frenemies or are you someone who's, like, sort of energized by their presence?

[Vincent Cunningham]

See, it depends on what frenemy means. But no, like, everybody that I actually spend time with and talk to and would call me a friend, I actually wish only the best. I would say I have frenemies from afar. People who are nemeses, you know, Like, I look at them and, like, I'm sort of annoyed by their presence in their career or whatever. And then I get to know them and they're okay, but I'm still like, that's the closest I get. But I don't have, like, in my life frenemies who call me and neg me and shit.

[Rachel Hampton]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a good way to live your life. Like, you shouldn't have people who are preying on your downfall in your immediate orbit.

[Vincent Cunningham]

That is 100% true.

[Rachel Hampton]

Yeah. Hazel and Ellen are both in that second group of people who are energized by having frenemies. They both have two kids who are the exact same age, which means they've been battling it out in the same PTA meetings for, like, nearly two decades now.

[Vincent Cunningham]

Oh, God.

[Rachel Hampton]

And where Ellen is a champagne socialist, Hazel is an espresso martini capitalist.

[Vincent Cunningham]

Oh, shit.

[Rachel Hampton]

She's not always wearing a power suit, but, like, spiritually, she is, you know? I understand she runs a very, very successful boutique PR agency. Okay, so an invite to her Christmas party usually means brushing elbows with, like, a Hilton or a Getty.

[Vincent Cunningham]

Fair enough. So we're talking Eileen Fisher instead of whatever else I described or, like, even. Even above. Like, we might be talking about, like, two seasons ago. Dior, et cetera.

[Rachel Hampton]

Yes, yes, I understand. So when Hazel offers Ellen's daughter an internship, Ellen is like, I can't even be too mad because my daughter is so excited. But also, I hate this woman. Do you think this is a good idea? Would you allow your child to be taken under the wing of a girl boss?

[Vincent Cunningham]

The obvious answer here, I think, is that you have to allow it.

[Rachel Hampton]

Oh, say more.

[Vincent Cunningham]

Two fronts, Personal and structural. Okay, if you disagree with the politics or the sort of activity that Hazel represents, expressing that to your potentially Republican child will drive them into the arms of this Mitt Romney sounding lady. It will turn her into the worst libertarian right.

[Rachel Hampton]

That's so true.

[Vincent Cunningham]

And similarly, if the problem is purely personal, here is a iron clad rule. The moment you first notice your parent, simply hating is impossible to forget. And it always makes you wonder what it is that the parent sees in the other person that has has occasioned this. Jealousy, antagonism, frenemy, ship, etc. Yeah, you have to make sure that your kid never sees you sweat in that kind of interpersonal way. You can express outright hatred, but if it's just hating, you cannot let that show. And it will similarly drive your child into the arms of Hazel, who it seems like she already sort of admires. You gotta let that rock.

[Rachel Hampton]

Yeah. If it was any other year, Hazel brainwashing her daughter into hustle culture would be at the top of Ellen's list of concerns. But this year, Ellen also has to worry about the fact that her other daughter has just entered eighth grade. And eighth grade is a really important year at Briarwood Academy.

[Vincent Cunningham]

Mm.

[Rachel Hampton]

Every year, all three classes of eighth graders at Briarwood participate in a semester long fundraiser. And whichever class wins the fundraiser by raising the most money gets to choose the theme for the annual eighth grade graduation party. The last time Ellen had been through this fundraiser with her oldest daughter had almost killed her. Are you competitive? Do you consider yourself competitive?

[Vincent Cunningham]

I'm very competitive. And yet I feel that it is. And maybe this goes to my point about, like, not showing yourself sweat to your kids. I feel that it's usually gauche to express it, especially, like, in your own career. So I saved my competitiveness for spades. Like, if anybody wants to play me in spades, come see me and I'll talk so much shit to you. It will. It will seem out of character, but in real life, with, like, my own career, I, like, put up a veneer mostly of, like, I'm just minding my own business.

[Rachel Hampton]

I was gonna say, Vincent, you should teach me how to play spades, but I'm realizing that learning spades from a competitive player is actually not good at all. Because I don't think you want me to be your partner.

[Vincent Cunningham]

It's fine until you're my partner. I can teach you and I can be over your shoulder while you play with somebody else.

[Rachel Hampton]

Okay, okay, okay, I'll take that. I'll take that. Yeah. One of my friends who you also know is very, very competitive. Like, it's not enough for her to win.

[Vincent Cunningham]

Yeah.

[Rachel Hampton]

The person she's winning against has to feel bad about losing. Like, she hates competing against me because most of the time I'm kind of just happy to be there. I'm like, I'm so happy you won. And she's like, fuck you. That doesn't count as winning if you're not upset.

[Vincent Cunningham]

Yeah. The other amazing thing about this person, our friend, is that the moment she sees somebody do something impressive, she says out loud, I could do that.

[Rachel Hampton]

No, later.

[Vincent Cunningham]

I think I could do that. Yes. She says it with a tenacity and a violence that's like, sort of unsettling.

[Rachel Hampton]

It is. And I love to see it, because usually she can do it, and when she can't do it, it's really funny to see. This is the kind of person that Ellen also is.

[Vincent Cunningham]

Okay.

[Rachel Hampton]

She's usually pretty good at suppressing it or channeling it into her work as an art buyer. And she had tried really, really hard to suppress it during her first eighth grade fundraiser at Briarwood. And that had not worked out. Like, things got ugly. Our girl Ellen may or may not have sabotaged another classroom's bake sale by spreading a rumor that the baked goods weren't nut or gluten free.

[Vincent Cunningham]

Holy shit.

[Rachel Hampton]

Had that bake sale been organized by Ellen's frenemy Hazel? Who could say?

[Vincent Cunningham]

Uh huh.

[Rachel Hampton]

But Ellen has buried that version of herself. It has been four years since then. A whole presidential administration. Ellen is taking cbd Now Ellen has a meditation app. Ellen is not gonna get too involved this year. How are you feeling so far?

[Vincent Cunningham]

Ellen needs to take up a sport immediately.

[Rachel Hampton]

Get into rugby girl.

[Vincent Cunningham]

I mean, yes. Suppression, first of all, never works. And also, too much of her competitive energy is making its way into the lives of her children. She has to take up tennis.

[Rachel Hampton]

Well, for the first couple of weeks of the school year, everything goes pretty fine. Like, Ellen's oldest daughter's having a great time at her internship, and she hasn't asked for a skirt suit or a copy of Lean in yet. Okay, so so far, so good.

[Vincent Cunningham]

Good. Thank God.

[Rachel Hampton]

And for a hot minute, it seems like the annual 8th grade fundraiser might even be pretty tame this year. So, like I said, there are three eighth grade classes at Briarwood. From here on out, we're gonna be referring to these classes as classes A, B, and C. So Ellen's daughter is in class A. Hazel's youngest son is in class B. And there's no one we care about in class C. So fundraising starts off relatively chill at first. There are, like, bake sales and craft fairs and things of that nature. And these are all mostly engineered by the children themselves. But things start going off the rails when the silent auction rolls around. Now, Briarwood parents are the kind of people that could very easily donate, like dinner on a private yacht or a magnum of champagne or whatever rich people have. I don't really know, but they could donate a lot of shit. So to stop things from getting too crazy, the biggest rule for the silent auction is that nothing can be auctioned off that the kids did not obtain themselves.

[Vincent Cunningham]

Okay, obtain by what means?

[Rachel Hampton]

Well, so at first, the auction items include, like, a personal flash Mob by the 8th grade dance team or a cutting from the heritage roses that are growing in the Briarwood greenhouse.

[Vincent Cunningham]

Okay, okay.

[Rachel Hampton]

But I'm sure you can guess that these are the kind of parents that always find a way to get involved. So one student in class B has a dad who's, like, a longtime theater producer in the city. And the producer has his kid write a note to a Broadway star begging for her to take part in the Briarwood fundraiser. And the producer hand delivers this note to the Broadway star's dressing room. So now one of the items for auction is a private dinner with this Broadway star, Class A. The class that has Ellen's daughter in it refuses to take this lying down. One of the kids in class A, their mom's best friend, is a celebrity fitness instructor. So when the kid asks if their mom's friend will donate a lifetime membership to her classes.

[Vincent Cunningham]

A lifetime.

[Rachel Hampton]

Of course, the celebrity fitness director says yes.

[Vincent Cunningham]

This is insane.

[Rachel Hampton]

Do you think any of this constitutes cheating?

[Vincent Cunningham]

It's all cheating. Obviously it should be. This war of nepotistic escalation must end. This is ridiculous. Own means. Means like, you know, you had to forage it.

[Rachel Hampton]

You need to go to Central park and forage it yourself.

[Vincent Cunningham]

Yeah, make some greens from fucking dandelions found on the. In the one of those dividers between the sides of Broadway.

[Rachel Hampton]

Yes.

[Vincent Cunningham]

What are you talking about?

[Rachel Hampton]

Anyway, Ellen is determined not to care. Her meditation app just dropped a new course on somatic breathwork.

[Vincent Cunningham]

Oh, God.

[Rachel Hampton]

New Year, New Ellen. Okay, all of that changes one night when Ellen's oldest daughter is telling her about her day interning for Hazel, Ellen's frenemy. And the daughter is like, I spent all. All day on the phone. And Ellen's like, well, yeah, that sounds about right for a PR job. But her daughter's like, no, this was different. Hazel had this spreadsheet of clients we had to call to see if they had any items they wanted to donate for some benefit Hazel is throwing. It was so boring. And reflexively, Ellen is like, charitable giving is very important for people with the means to do so.

[Vincent Cunningham]

What?

[Rachel Hampton]

But then Ellen kind of pauses because she's always just a little bit suspicious when it comes to literally anything that Hazel does. So Ellen's like, what kind of items are we talking about? And her daughter's like, mom, I know you hate Hazel, but she's kind of incredible at her job. People gave her so much shit. Like, someone donated a wheel of cheese imported from Italy, like, right from the border of Parmigiano and Reggiano.

[Vincent Cunningham]

Got that Reggiano. She went. She went and got that Reg. Oh, man, that's crazy.

[Rachel Hampton]

And then a former chef of Carbone is offering up a private pasta making class, and someone else donated this ugly broom that cost $600. How would you respond to this?

[Vincent Cunningham]

Ellen, you have already messed up. If your daughter ever has the occasion to say to you, I know you hate X, and yet they are great at their job. You should just lay down and call for the Lord to take you. That is. It's over for you. Does she suspect yet that the daughter is talking about the eighth grade fundraiser. Does she suspect?

[Rachel Hampton]

Well, Ellen's like, I may hate Hazel and also think that Hazel's affinity for Tory Burch is a little tacky, but as a feminist, I will not tear this woman down in front of my daughter. So Ellen Tells her daughter, I don't hate Hazel, but our girl Ellen does have her antenna up. Ellen is suspicious, and she only gets more suspicious the next day when one of her Briarwood parent friends tells her that apparently class B had received some incredible new donations for the silent auction that everyone's being really tight lipped about.

[Vincent Cunningham]

Oh, God.

[Rachel Hampton]

What do you do with this information?

[Vincent Cunningham]

She has two options and two options only.

[Rachel Hampton]

Oh, what are the two options?

[Vincent Cunningham]

So it's either 100% ignore, forget you heard it, and from then on, tell the daughter, for fundraiser related reasons, I can't know about anything that you tell me. Like totally forget, renounce, or establish a new Gmail address and send an anonymous tip to the authorities.

[Rachel Hampton]

Ooh.

[Vincent Cunningham]

There is no other way. If she tries a third path, she's gonna get burned.

[Rachel Hampton]

Ellen takes the lighter side option that you give. Ellen's like, I'm Zen. I'm different this year.

[Vincent Cunningham]

Okay.

[Rachel Hampton]

She takes a little CBD gummy and she mutes the notifications on her parent group chat.

[Vincent Cunningham]

Ellen, shout out to you.

[Rachel Hampton]

Her little gummy has just kicked in when her younger daughter comes home from school and she's looking a little dejected. And Ellen's immediately like, what's wrong? Are you okay? Her daughter's like, nothing's wrong. It's just this stupid fundraiser. We're gonna lose. And Ellen's like, how do you know you're gonna lose? You've got a whole month left. And her daughter sort of sighs. And then she's like, mom, do you promise to be chill? And Ellen's like, yes, I told you, I'm different now. And so her daughter tells her that the final auction list went out, and the items for sale by class B include not just a private dinner with a Broadway star. They include a wheel of cheese imported from Italy right from the border. Parmigiano and Reggiano.

[Vincent Cunningham]

She put that reds on auction.

[Rachel Hampton]

They include a private pasta making class by a former chef at Carbone and a broom made by hand from heritage wood worth $600.

[Vincent Cunningham]

Oh, my God.

[Rachel Hampton]

Do you think this constitutes cheating?

[Vincent Cunningham]

Yeah, of course it's cheating.

[Rachel Hampton]

Ellen's like, this is where I draw the line. She's like, I am the only person allowed to exploit my oldest daughter's labor for personal gain. Our girl is like, call me Ellen Snowden because I am blowing that whistle.

[Vincent Cunningham]

That's right.

[Rachel Hampton]

She sends a very polite email to the teacher of her daughter's class the next morning, outlining her suspicions that Hazel's son had, in fact, not been involved at all was soliciting the donations. And by the morning after that, all hell has broken loose. The school was able to pretty easily determine that Ellen was telling the truth because Hazel didn't take the operational security course at Girlboss Academy. The school returns all the items Hazel had donated after seeing the undeleted track changes made by the interns in Hazel's little donation spreadsheet.

[Vincent Cunningham]

No, let me find out. Hazel's IT department is bad. She's supposed to be a girl boss, right? Oh, my God.

[Rachel Hampton]

I'm sex, Hazel.

[Vincent Cunningham]

I'm sex. Let me find out. She's doing unsecure bullshit.

[Rachel Hampton]

So after the auction, a very strongly worded email is sent to every parent of an eighth grade student. And the email basically says that going forward, only money raised by students would count toward the final classroom total. And parents are to limit their involvement to volunteering. Also, auctions are no longer allowed. Do you think this will calm down these rich parents?

[Vincent Cunningham]

Do I think this will calm them down?

[Rachel Hampton]

Yeah. Do you think they'll chill out?

[Vincent Cunningham]

No. They're going to say, first of all, that New York City social fundraising life is nothing but auctions. You can't raise money without an auction. I think that they would say somebody has a parent annoying enough to say that this is discrimination against kids with wealthy parents.

[Rachel Hampton]

And you're right.

[Vincent Cunningham]

And then somebody's gonna know immediately, because this is how things happen, that this all happened because one person was upset about one thing. They might not know about Ellen and Hazel and they're demented little tango, but they will know that it is about some personal grievance. And that will come up and it will cause a tea party at this school. This is not at all the end of this story.

[Rachel Hampton]

Ellen agrees with you. Ellen's like, I don't think this is going to do too much. But Ellen's like, I got my lick back. I engineered my frenemy's downfall yet again. And I am back to the original plan of not getting involved, of being cool.

[Vincent Cunningham]

Yep, that's right.

[Rachel Hampton]

Luckily, Ellen's got plenty to keep her occupied because Halloween is fast approaching. And Ellen loves Halloween. And after years of lobbying her co op board, Ellen has finally landed the Halloween decorating coup of the century. Vincent, have you seen the 12 foot tall Halloween skeleton?

[Vincent Cunningham]

Yes. The Halloween skeleton is more and more visible, more and more a part of the life of America. As I see it. It's a huge thing.

[Rachel Hampton]

Yeah. So the 12 foot tall Halloween skeleton is exactly what it sounds like, which is a freestanding 12 foot tall skeleton that is used for Halloween decoration. It is sold from Home Depot. According to Business Insider, it is affectionately known as Skelly skelly. It costs $299 and it has LED illuminated eyes that follow trick or treaters. So for years, Ellen has wanted nothing more than to install a 12 foot tall skeleton outside her home. And if Ellen lived in the suburbs, this dream could be achieved very simply by purchasing the skeleton. But Ellen lives in the West Village in a co op that, like most West Village co ops, has a very involved co op board. So before Ellen can even purchase a 12 foot tall skeleton, she has to get approval from her co op board, which for years she has been unable to do. But this year, Ellen's persistence has finally paid off. In early October, Ellen was given permission to purchase and install not just one but two 12 foot tall skeletons right in front of her co op.

[Vincent Cunningham]

Oh my God.

[Rachel Hampton]

What would you do if you were walking down like Christopher street in the west village and saw two 12 foot tall skeletons?

[Vincent Cunningham]

I mean the things you can see on Christopher Street. I feel like the 12 foot tall skeleton is the safe zone. That's like the most wholesome thing that's ever happened on Christopher street. But I would also shriek in delight.

[Rachel Hampton]

Ellen is filled with joy every time she sees these skeletons. It is better than she has been dreaming of all these years. Every five year old in a mile radius becomes obsessed with this co op. But Even better, Ellen's 12 foot tall skeletons had caught the attention of the coolest person on Ellen's block. Patricia. Huge news. Our dowager queen Kelsey McKinney wrote a new York Times bestselling book of beautiful essays about gossip. It's called you'd Didn't Hear this from Me. True Notes on Gossip and I am Obsessed. It's about how we use gossip to learn about ourselves. It's about Britney Spears and West Elm, Caleb and Gilgamesh and Picasso. It's so fun. And not to be biased, but I kind of think it's pretty excellent. It's out right now in a hardback and a super sexy audiobook which Kelsey narrates. You can buy wherever you buy your books. You can Also go to KelseyMcKenneyBook.com to see all retailers. This episode of Normal Gossip is brought to you by booking.com Getting started on booking.com is super easy. In less than 15 minutes you can register your property and nearly half of partners get their first booking within a week. Plus, if you're already listed on another site, booking.com makes it easy to Import your property info and get going right away. Whether you're looking to earn some extra income, fill those vacant weekends or grow your business, head over to booking.com to see how you can get started today. The reach is global, the bookings are consistent, and the control is yours. Booking.com is one of the most downloaded travel apps in the world that makes it the place to list your vacation rentals. If you want to earn more with consistent bookings, reach new markets and turn hosting into a steady income. For the bookings you've dreamed of, list your property on booking.com Patricia is like old, old money rich. Like it's giving gilded age, it's giving down. Abby. What this means is that Patricia doesn't give a single fuck what anyone thinks of her. She has been married and divorced three times, and now that her two sons are off at college, people in the neighborhood have seen her on dates with a series of really hot, mostly younger guys. She's notoriously terrible at parallel parking despite being a lifelong New Yorker, and will often ask one of her neighbors to come park her car. There are rumors that she grows pot on her roof.

[Vincent Cunningham]

Patricia. Ellen's obsessed with her, as anyone would have to be.

[Rachel Hampton]

And Ellen has heard from her neighbors, who are also obsessed with Patricia, that Patricia's been cited standing and admiring the 12 foot tall skeletons at least twice in the past.

[Vincent Cunningham]

Amazing.

[Rachel Hampton]

Ellen has run into Patricia in front of the 12 fatale skeletons herself. But it's only a matter of time. How would you strike up a conversation with your glamorous divorcee stoner neighbor?

[Vincent Cunningham]

I would approach the Madame Mayflower of Christopher street and say, hey, like I like. Yeah, I've always seen you on this blog. What's up? Da da da da. Like, just one of those things. Like, I always see you around you like the skeleton. And if there was an answer to the affirmative, I would say I would have to take credit is what I would do.

[Rachel Hampton]

Like, those are mine. I spent $600 on those skeletons.

[Vincent Cunningham]

That's right. And then we would like start to have a conversation about Halloween. We would just like, we'd just be like, yeah, Halloween's kind of my thing. And then like, Patricia sounds like the kind of person who might be into it.

[Rachel Hampton]

Yeah.

[Vincent Cunningham]

And then off we go.

[Rachel Hampton]

Yeah. This is actually really similar to the tactic that Ellen is workshopping. She just doesn't have a chance to deploy it because one night she's coming home from getting ice cream with her daughter. And as they get closer to their block, they see there's like a Huge commotion outside their co op. There's a crowd of people along with two cop cars, which is not normal. And as Ellen gets closer, she sees Patricia's fabulous head of hair among the people in the crowd. Very easily recognizable. It's like seeing Julia Roberts in the Wild. Most of the co op board members are also in the crowd, like looking pissed. And there are three or four police officers and then two boys sitting on the ground in front of them. And the boys look to be in their late teens or early twenties. And lying on the ground in front of them is something that Ellen can't quite make out. Like from a distance, it kind of looks like a really long version of the cardboard tube that's inside a toilet paper roll. Ellen pushes her way through the little crowd, allegedly cause she wants to get into her home. But really she is being nosy, as I would also be in this situation. And it's not until Ellen is right in front of the co op that she realizes that the two boys sitting on the ground are Patricia's sons who are supposed to be away at college. And that the object on the ground in front of them is either a foot long joint or a very convincing replica.

[Vincent Cunningham]

What kind of true crime shit is happening?

[Rachel Hampton]

Yeah, so apparently Patricia had waxed poetic about the 12 foot tall skeletons to her two sons who had taken the train down from Columbia to pull what I have to admit is kind of an iconic prank. They just thought it would be really to put a foot long joint into the giant hand of one of the 12 foot tall skeletons.

[Vincent Cunningham]

Oh, hi Jinx. I like that. This is great. These guys are funny.

[Rachel Hampton]

Yeah. Someone had seen them like skulking around the building and called the cops. But luckily or unluckily, depending on how you think about it, the foot long joint is just a prop. So there's no weed in it.

[Vincent Cunningham]

Okay. Okay. Good. Innocent fun.

[Rachel Hampton]

So the only real charge possible is trespassing. And Ellen convinces her co op board to not press charges. She's like, I'm the one who bought the skeletons. And I'm not offended at all. She's like, honestly, I think it'd be funny to leave the joint. The co op board does not agree with that last part.

[Vincent Cunningham]

Fair enough.

[Rachel Hampton]

But they all know Patricia's family is really influential. So they're like, fine, we won't press charges.

[Vincent Cunningham]

Good. That's two good things in a row that Ellen has done for Patricia.

[Rachel Hampton]

As a parent, if your kid did something dumb and potentially criminal, but also a little funny, do you admit to them that it's funny.

[Vincent Cunningham]

Yes, 100%. I hope so. I hope that I would have the integrity to do that. But yeah, you have to. This is how they get to know you, especially when they're in college. This is now your time to introduce yourself to them as a person.

[Rachel Hampton]

Yeah.

[Vincent Cunningham]

So if they did that when they were 11, you'd have to be pretty pissed about it and only let slip your actual feelings much later. But these are sounds like rambunctious American boys of 19 or 20, and they deserve to know the red blooded truth about their mom, Patricia.

[Rachel Hampton]

Yeah, Patricia seems very chill about the situation, which makes sense for her. She emails Ellen to be like, thank you for being so gracious to my idiot sons. I would love to have you over for a real joint one of these nights.

[Vincent Cunningham]

Everything's coming up Ellen.

[Rachel Hampton]

Everything's coming up Ellen. And it's the final week of the eighth grade fundraiser. And so Ellen's at home and her youngest daughter comes home from school. And before Ellen can even say, hi, sweetie, her daughter's like, mom, you promised. It was different this time. And Ellen's got no idea what's going on. She's like, what are you talking about? And her daughter's like, you promised you would be chill. And now Ellen's like, a little offended because she has been so chill and it's been so hard. Ellen's like, I was chill. I've been so chill. I haven't sabotaged anyone.

[Vincent Cunningham]

I haven't sabotaged anyone.

[Rachel Hampton]

And internally she's like, yeah, I routed out Hazel, but no one knows about that. Do you think Ellen's identity as a whistleblower is safe?

[Vincent Cunningham]

It was never safe. I just hope this doesn't ruin things with Patricia.

[Rachel Hampton]

Well, Ellen's daughter tells her that a couple kids had seen Patricia stopped by Briarwood the Friday before. She had gone into the administrative offices, which is weird. Like, Patricia's sons had gone to Briarwood, but they're in college. They both graduated like at least a year ago. And so Patricia's visit apparently got the rumor mill started. And over the weekend, a possible explanation starts floating around the Briarwood parent group chats. Apparently there had been some suspicion when the situation with Patricia's sons and Ellen's 12 foot tall skeletons got smoothed over so quickly. Like, everyone knows how hard Ellen campaigned for those skeletons. And the river mill has settled on one extra explanation. Ellen has obviously blackmailed Patricia into donating to her daughter's classroom in exchange for not pressing charges.

[Vincent Cunningham]

What?

[Rachel Hampton]

Or at least that's a story that Ellen's daughter has seemingly heard.

[Vincent Cunningham]

These people are sick.

[Rachel Hampton]

Ellen's horrified. She's like, my love for Patricia is pure. I would never blackmail her.

[Vincent Cunningham]

I would never bring her into this sordid world of intrigue and lies. Patricia's from the good side.

[Rachel Hampton]

Ellen's daughter just rolls her eyes and is like, yeah, well, if you blackmailed someone, me, at least, better win. Class a wants to have the 8th grade party at topgolf. And topgolf sucks. Ellen's like, I didn't blackmail anyone. I'm innocent.

[Vincent Cunningham]

This is a twisted tale.

[Rachel Hampton]

Have you ever walked into a room and just kind of known people were talking about you?

[Vincent Cunningham]

Yeah, unfortunately, it's the worst when that happens, you have to call a meeting. You have to just banish the secret immediately. You gotta do, like, a and, like, clear the air.

[Rachel Hampton]

Yeah. This is the really bad feeling Ellen gets When she walks into the briarwood benefit, which is the last event of the eighth grade fundraiser. It's where the winner is announced. And it is abundantly clear that as soon as Ellen walks in that absolutely everyone has heard this rumor about her. Like, the parents in her daughter's class are all like, good job, Ellen. Like, it really sounds like Patricia has made a donation, but no one knows how much. Meanwhile, the parents in the other classes are all glaring at her, Including Hazel, obviously. Oh, my God. They're nearing the part of the night where they're gonna announce the final totals. And at this point, Ellen has heard this rumor that she has blackmailed Patricia so many times that she's low key, convinced that it might be true. Like, everyone else seems so sure.

[Vincent Cunningham]

Oh, God.

[Rachel Hampton]

Ellen obviously knows she didn't blackmail anyone, but she's like, maybe since me and Patricia are buddies now, she really did do me a solid. And for the first time since that year's eighth grade fundraiser started, Ellen allows herself to think, maybe my kid will win. Has Ellen promised herself she wasn't gonna get involved? Yes, but it's too late for that. And against her will, Ellen has been involved. And now Ellen wants to win.

[Vincent Cunningham]

Wow.

[Rachel Hampton]

So she's on the edge of her seat as the principal takes to the stage to read out the final totals. First, the principal reads out the total of the classroom with Hazel's son in it. They raised $15,000. Then it gets so quiet, you can hear a pin drop. And the principal says, class A has done an incredible job. This is the class that Ellen's daughter is in. The principal says, class A has raised just over $17,000. There are even More gaffes. And everyone turns to look at Ellen, who is like struggling to maintain composure. She's like, I have no idea how to feel. Like obviously she's proud because she, well, her daughter had won. But Ellen's also like my. I mean, my daughter's victory has been tainted by these rumors of blackmail. Like, does this even count if I win and everyone thinks I cheated to do it?

[Vincent Cunningham]

Wow.

[Rachel Hampton]

And it's as Ellen is thinking all of this that the principal reads out the total for class C, the class that no one had really cared about, that no one had ever even suspected might win. Class C has done exceptionally well. The principal says they've raised $23,000.

[Vincent Cunningham]

Damn.

[Rachel Hampton]

The principal's like, class C has won the annual Briarwood 8th grade fundraiser. Let's all give them a round of applause. So apparently while class A and B were surveilling and sabotaging and slinging mud at each other, Class C had kind of just put their heads down and done the work. Like no one really knows how they did it, but it doesn't really matter. All that mattered is that class C got to decide the theme of that year's eighth grade party. And they decided to have a lock in at the Natural History Museum. Which after some grumbling, everyone agreed was at least better than topgolf.

[Vincent Cunningham]

That's right.

[Rachel Hampton]

And that's basically the end of our story. Do you think there are any villains here?

[Vincent Cunningham]

Any? This tale is thick with villains and their villainy. Hazel just. Cheater, liar, daughter, appropriator. Need I go on?

[Rachel Hampton]

You made me wheeze.

[Vincent Cunningham]

Ellen. A hater and a snitch.

[Rachel Hampton]

It's true.

[Vincent Cunningham]

Although I feel for her because you and your telling imbued her with such rich humanity. And her protagonism really shone through for me. Petty villainy really, at the end of the day. But the sons of Patricia, obviously. I mean literal criminals, true trespassers. At the very least. The daughter, the older daughter. What kind of two timing hussie is?

[Rachel Hampton]

No loyalty.

[Vincent Cunningham]

Yeah, this hefa. What is she doing? Why is she playing both sides? What's up with her?

[Rachel Hampton]

Not hussy.

[Vincent Cunningham]

I'm sorry, that gets me on the wrong side of the straight man thing. I don't know what we should call her.

[Rachel Hampton]

No, honestly, bring it back. We haven't been using Husty in a while. It's like siddity.

[Vincent Cunningham]

Sidditty. Yeah. Younger daughter, rude.

[Rachel Hampton]

Mom.

[Vincent Cunningham]

You promise? Mom, don't freak out. A lot of little shots, little jabs happening from the little smart mouth young lady.

[Rachel Hampton]

These are all good choices. There's no. The only non villain is Patricia.

[Vincent Cunningham]

The story is redeemed by the presence of Patricia. I don't know why she went to the office.

[Rachel Hampton]

Well, actually, I have some little postscripts that might answer some questions.

[Vincent Cunningham]

Oh, my God.

[Rachel Hampton]

First, after the dust had settled and the eighth graders had enjoyed their night at the museum, Briarwood called a big student and parent assembly. The administration had felt that the spirit of philanthropy had started to be lost in their annual 8th grade fundraiser. So going forward, classes could only do acts of service and not fundraising.

[Vincent Cunningham]

Wow. Wow.

[Rachel Hampton]

And also, one beautiful summer night, Ellen does go smoke a joint on Patricia's roof. She gets the highest she has ever been in her entire life. She's like, patricia, this is the best weed I've ever had. What's your secret? And Patricia's like, it's the fertilizer up at Briarwood. It's incredible stuff. Apparently, while Patricia's kids were in school, she learned that her weed loved the fertilizer that Briarwood used in their greenhouse, and it could only be bought in bulk. So Patricia just buys a bag or two from the school every so often, which is why the kids had seen her in the administrative office.

[Vincent Cunningham]

Wow. Patricia still. Still batting a thousand for me.

[Rachel Hampton]

Patricia's still our favorite in this story.

[Vincent Cunningham]

That's right. Yeah. She supports local business, local education. She's, like, keeping her money in the neighborhood.

[Rachel Hampton]

In the neighborhood.

[Vincent Cunningham]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Rachel Hampton]

It's true.

[Vincent Cunningham]

Buy back the block, et cetera.

[Rachel Hampton]

Yes, yes, exactly. That's the end of our story then.

[Vincent Cunningham]

Oh, my God. It's just so stressed out. It stressed me out a lot because children are involved, people's reputations are involved. Obviously, Ellen has done some pretty sordid things in the past, and any protagonist is trying to make themselves better. And change is so hard and impossible the older we get.

[Rachel Hampton]

It's true.

[Vincent Cunningham]

And that's rough.

[Rachel Hampton]

Maybe Ellen graduating from CBD to THC will send her on the right path.

[Vincent Cunningham]

Yes, absolutely. She needs to get high.

[Rachel Hampton]

Thank you for listening to normal gossip. If you have a gossip story to share with us, email [e-mail] or you can leave us a voicemail at 2679. Gossip. It will. If you love this podcast and want to support us, become a friend or a friend of a [e-mail] you can follow the show on Instagram and TikTok. Normalgossip. You can follow me on all social media. Heydanay. H E Y Y D N A E this podcast was produced by Sierra Spragley Ricks and Jay Tol Viera. Thank you to Samantha Gatsick, our audio engineer and thank you to Danielle Hewitt for your additional production help this season. The co creators and dowager queens of Normal Gossip are Alex Laughlin and Kelsey McKinney. Justin Ellis is Defectors Projects editor. Jasper Wang and Sean Kuhn are Defectors business guys. Alex sujong Laughlin is Defectors supervising producer. Tom Ley is our Editor in chief. Dan McQuaid runs our merch store which you can find at normalgossip store. Tara Jacoby designed our show Art. Thank you to Captain Kathryn Shue, Brandi Jensen, Louise Paez Pumar, Chris Thompson, Jasper Wang, Sabrina Embler, Dave McKenna, Patrick Redford and Ray Ratto for all your help on this season. Thank you to the rest of the Defector staff. Defector Media is a collectively owned subscriber based media company. Normal Gossip is a proud member of Radiotopia. I'm your host Rachel Hampton and remember, you didn't hear this from me. Hi, I'm June Diane Raphiel. And I'm Jessica St. Clair and we would like to invite you on a hilarious and heartfelt journey each week on the Deep Dive. From navigating the chaos of motherhood and family to exploring the depths of grief and loss, we are just two best friends who process life together and with you guys discover our secret to finding joy amidst the madness and get ready for unfiltered conversations about life, love and everything in between. And nails. We talk a lot about nails now. Community is everything to us at the Deep Dive. We believe in the power of connection and the strength that comes from supporting one another and we would love to have you with us. So be sure to join us every Wednesday on the Deep Dive from Lemonada Media wherever you get your podcast.

[Vincent Cunningham]

Radiotopia.

[Rachel Hampton]

From PRX.