Family Lore Drop with Hrishikesh Hirway

Summary

Normal Gossip Podcast Summary

Episode: Family Lore Drop with Hrishikesh Hirway
Release Date: December 4, 2024

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Introduction of Hrishikesh Hirway

The episode begins with host Kelsey McKinney welcoming Hrishikesh Hirway, a multifaceted artist known for his work as a singer, songwriter, and the host of the acclaimed podcast Song Exploder. Hrishikesh brings a wealth of experience, including co-hosting Home Cooking with Sabine Nosrat and composing original scores for various films and TV series.

Notable Quote:

• Kelsey McKinney [02:00]: "Hrishikesh, welcome to the show."
• Hrishikesh Hirway [02:00]: "Thanks so much. I'm very excited to be here."

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Exploring the Impact of Gossip

The conversation transitions to the theme of gossip, delving into Hrishikesh's personal experiences and cultural background. Hrishikesh shares how growing up in an Indian family instilled a fear of gossip, emphasizing the importance of maintaining a balanced reputation within the community.

Key Points:

• Cultural Conditioning: Hrishikesh explains that his family's emphasis on avoiding gossip was rooted in their Indian heritage, where community perception plays a significant role.
• Personal Struggles: This fear of gossip has had lasting effects on his personal and professional life, particularly in his creative endeavors as a musician.

Notable Quotes:

• Hrishikesh Hirway [02:22]: "I think that I've been conditioned to be stressed out by gossip from birth."
• Kelsey McKinney [03:24]: "If that is a feeling you had as a child that has continued in your profession where you are now public and people are, like, aware of your existence."

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The Family Lore Story: Allegra and the Psychic's Predictions

Kelsey introduces a captivating family legend involving a character named Allegra from a large Catholic family. The story revolves around Allegra's grandfather, Enzo, and a prophecy made by a psychic during his parents' arranged marriage.

Story Overview:

1. Arranged Marriage Origins: Enzo's parents met through a family tutor named Srikashin Bhagade, leading to their arranged marriage after a single meeting.
2. Psychic Prediction: During a family gathering, Bhagade's boss consults a psychic who predicts that Enzo's mother would move apartments, become pregnant by the end of the year, and her eldest son would postpone his wedding until after the baby's birth.
3. Conflicting Records: After Enzo's death, a discrepancy arises between family-held beliefs about his age and official government records, leading Allegra to question the validity of family stories and the psychic's prophecy.

Notable Quotes:

• Hrishikesh Hirway [12:14]: "I love the idea that somebody put them together."
• Kelsey McKinney [25:03]: "This is the family legend. Do you like it? What do you think?"

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Investigating Family Secrets and Unraveling Mysteries

Allegra becomes obsessed with uncovering the truth behind her family's lore. She questions inconsistencies in the records and seeks to understand the motivations behind the psychic's predictions. The narrative delves into Allegra's journey to reconcile family myths with documented facts.

Key Points:

• Documentary Discrepancies: Allegra discovers handwritten family documents that conflict with official records, suggesting a possible lie or error in Enzo's reported age.
• Psychic's Influence: The prophecy is scrutinized, especially the seemingly arbitrary advice to move apartments, raising suspicions about its true intent.
• Familial Relationships: The story highlights the complexities of family dynamics, especially in cultures where arranged marriages and community perceptions are integral.

Notable Quotes:

• Kelsey McKinney [32:19]: "Everyone in this family is like, did you ask her follow up questions? Like, what else did she say?"
• Hrishikesh Hirway [54:12]: "I do have like one very final update for you."

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Conclusion and Insights on Gossip and Family Legends

The episode concludes with a reflection on the role of gossip in shaping family narratives and personal identities. Hrishikesh and Kelsey discuss how gossip can preserve memories, create intrigue, and sometimes distort the truth. They emphasize the importance of seeking authentic stories amidst familial myths.

Key Takeaways:

• Preservation vs. Distortion: While gossip can help preserve family history, it can also lead to misunderstandings and false narratives.
• Personal Growth: Allegra's quest for truth symbolizes the journey of self-discovery and the importance of questioning inherited stories.
• Cultural Reflections: The episode underscores how cultural backgrounds influence perceptions of gossip and the value placed on reputation.

Notable Quotes:

• Kelsey McKinney [54:07]: "But someone did find a photo of Diego in one of the family albums and he looked exactly like grandpa. Wow."
• Hrishikesh Hirway [54:12]: "I do have like one very final update for you."

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Final Thoughts

"Family Lore Drop with Hrishikesh Hirway" is a deep dive into how gossip and family legends intertwine to shape personal and collective identities. Through the compelling story of Allegra and her family's enigmatic past, the episode invites listeners to ponder the fine line between truth and myth in the narratives we inherit and share.

Overall Insights:

• Gossip as Cultural Fabric: Gossip serves as a tool for maintaining social cohesion and conveying cultural norms.
• Impact on Individuals: The episode highlights how negative perceptions of gossip can influence an individual's mental and professional well-being.
• Narrative Integrity: It stresses the importance of verifying family stories to preserve the integrity of personal and collective histories.

By weaving personal anecdotes with an intricate family legend, both Kelsey and Hrishikesh offer a nuanced exploration of gossip's role in our lives, making this episode both entertaining and thought-provoking for listeners.

Transcript

[Kelsey McKinney]

Hello, it's Kelsey McKinney from Normal Gossip. And as you may have already heard, it is time for Radiotopia's annual fall fundraiser. Radiotopia is the parent company that helps us make this podcast and they're the home to a lot of guests of the show that you know and love already. Avery Trufelman, Ronald Young Jr, Zakiya Gibbons and more who you'll meet this season. Donating to Radiotopia gives money to help all of the shows in this network make money. Like our podcast, their shows take a ton of time and energy and money. Hours of work on every episode. And the money that's given in this drive will help our peers do better, exciting work that they're really passionate about. And one thing I love about Radiotopia is that it is really creator first. Creators retain full ownership of their ideas and get to make the creative and business choices that are right for them. Plus, Radiotopia is a nonprofit, so that's a tax deduction. If you're looking for one, head to Radiotopia fm donate to make a tax deductible contribution and support our work. Visit Radiotopia fm Donate to learn more and donate. Thank you so much. Hi and welcome to Normal Gossip. I'm Kelsey McKinney and in each episode of this podcast we're going to bring you an anonymous morsel of gossip from the real world. I am so excited to welcome to the show friend of the podcast, Rishikesh Hirway. Rishi is a singer and songwriter and the host of Song Exploder which is an award winning podcast and Netflix series where he interviews other musicians about how they created one of their songs. Rishi co hosted the award winning podcast Home Cooking with chef and previous Normal Gossip guest Sabine Nosrat and he hosts the podcast the Westweed Weekly. Rishi has also composed original scores for film and tv, including the Netflix series Everything Sucks and the video game the Red Lantern and the upcoming sci fi thriller Companion which comes out in theaters in January. It's a little rude for him to be this talented. Rishi, welcome to the show.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

Thanks so much. Thanks for having me. I'm very excited to be here.

[Kelsey McKinney]

I'm so excited you're here. How are you feeling?

[Rishikesh Hirway]

I'm feeling a little stressed right away, but excited still.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Okay.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

I feel like part of my stress is definitely because of the topic of this podcast.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Okay, well, let's talk about it. Tell me what your relationship with Gossip is. Why are you feeling stressed about it?

[Rishikesh Hirway]

I think that I've been conditioned to be stressed out by gossip from birth. My family's Indian, and my mom had a real sort of, what would the community think? Aspect to, I don't know, the way that she raised my sister and myself. You know, just making sure that you don't give any fodder to this sort of vague idea of an outside world so that they might have something bad to say about you. You also don't want to be too showy or look too good because you don't want people to give you the evil eye. You just need to ride a sort of somewhere in the high middle where people will talk about how good you are at school and where you ended up going to college, but not so much that people will give you the evil eye and not so badly that people will be like, did you hear about their daughter?

[Kelsey McKinney]

Okay, this is so funny, because I feel like I was raised in a really similar way. Like, my father was a pastor. I was very aware of, like, the way that I was perceived in the world and the way I needed to behave to, like, make sure that no one thought I was either bad or too good. Right. Like, I feel the same about that. But how did gossip play into that? Like, were you told not to gossip?

[Rishikesh Hirway]

You know, I don't even think that the term gossip was really used. It was just the way that people talked about each other. But sometimes that information would be good and sometimes that information would be negative. And I was just deathly afraid of anybody saying any. Anything negative about me in a way that I find, you know, like, I can joke about it a little bit, but I actually think that it had serious kind of crippling ramifications for me as an adult and for me as, like, a professional and creative person.

[Kelsey McKinney]

I was going to say that's something that I imagine is hard. If that is a feeling you had as a child that has continued in your profession where you are now public and people are, like, aware of your existence.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

Yeah. I mean, and especially I think, as a musician, as a songwriter, it's really hard. I've only recently kind of come to appreciate how much distance I feel between the world of, like, punk rock and rock and roll and this kind of, like, who cares, you know, middle finger to the air kind of attitude that is, I think, represents so much of what people love about that kind of music and where that music comes from. And to try and take this kind of. I'm just trying to be a good boy in school. Nobody say anything bad about me, and turn that into, like, some kind of musical Persona that Is exciting for me.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Hello. Welcome to the show. It's me, your favorite boy. Yeah, exactly. Oh, she. How so There is a difference, right. In people gossiping about you and the fear of gossip at large as something that could affect you and gossiping as an individual. Right. Like doing the gossip creation. Do you gossip?

[Rishikesh Hirway]

I try and avoid it, I think, for all these reasons, you know, like a sort of version of the golden rule and this deathly fear of my own. There's literally only one form of gossip that I believe in, which is when you try and set people up on a blind date. Okay. Like, I think that's. That's when you're talking about somebody. Yeah, Matchmaking. Exactly. That is the best kind of gossip because you're doing it with the aim of benefiting all the parties involved.

[Kelsey McKinney]

It's so funny. I feel like you're the second person. We've done how many episodes of the show. Right. Like, you're the second person to come in and say, like, I actually am afraid of it, and I'm kind of against it. And, like, it's kind of like a breath of fresh air to be like, okay. Like, it's interesting to have someone sitting here saying, like, no, I'm kind of against it, actually. Like, am I here on a podcast called Normal Gossip? Yes, but that's not my business.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

Exactly. If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all. And so I will be quiet for the rest of the episodes.

[Kelsey McKinney]

I'm going to tell this story in silence. People will love it.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

Welcome to Kelsey's monologue.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Well, then I feel weird asking you this next question, which is, did you bring a gossip for me?

[Rishikesh Hirway]

Well, I was thinking about my love of matchmaking and where that might have come from.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

And there's a very obvious answer, I think, which is that my parents had an arranged marriage.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Okay.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

And that's kind of, you know, the ultimate blind date.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yes.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

You know, they had. Went on one date and got married.

[Kelsey McKinney]

The date was the marriage. In a way. They're still on their first date.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

Exactly. You know, it worked out for them. They were. They were married for 49 years. My mom passed away a few years ago, but they were married for 49 years. They had a wonderful, strange marriage. That. That was my certainly, like, primary understanding of what a family looks like. But it all started with. With an arranged marriage. And so I love the idea that somebody put them together. You know, like, there's somebody out there who I've never met.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

And I was asking My dad recently, to fill in some of the details. Like, I KN that they had been set up. I kind of know the story from when they first met. That, like, first meeting. But I didn't really know how they got there.

[Kelsey McKinney]

How did they get there?

[Rishikesh Hirway]

And so does this count as a gossip story?

[Kelsey McKinney]

I'm like, how did they get there?

[Rishikesh Hirway]

So my dad told me recently his version of this story. There is one person really at the center of the marriage. His name is Srikashin Bhagade.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Okay.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

And I had heard this name, Bhagade before, you know, and so I was like, can you tell me about him? Like, who was this person? It a whole family. And he said, oh, well, my father was on. My grandfather on my dad's side used to tutor people in math. He was a math teacher, but he used to also do, like, you know, tutoring. And Sri Krishna Bhagade was one of the people that he tutored.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Okay.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

And I was like, oh, okay. So that's how you met him. He's like, he was my dad's student. And then later, actually when I was older, when I was in school, he tutored me in math. And I was like, oh, that's. That is interesting. How come your dad did not just tutor? Good.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Follow up.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

And he said. He said, oh, well, you know, he was older and I was at this school and it was closer for me to just go to his house and get tutored by him. And I was like, wow, that's so cool that this person who your dad tutored then ended up becoming your tutor. And my dad's like, yeah, also he's also, you know, my cousin.

[Kelsey McKinney]

What?

[Rishikesh Hirway]

How is that not the. And so then it turns out it's my, you know, he's my dad's first cousin. He's the son of my dad's sister. So, yeah, these are the kinds of details that, like, emerge much later. When my dad went to the US to get his PhD, he was studying there and he was in grad school. He got permission from his professor, the one who ran the lab where he worked. My dad was studying food science. He got permission to go back to India for 30 days. And my dad thought he would go and try and look for a job for post graduation. And so he sent his resume to his family and said, can you please just pass this around and see if there's anybody that is hiring?

[Kelsey McKinney]

Okay.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

Also, if you happen to know of any suitable, you know, marriage prospects, I'd also be open to that.

[Kelsey McKinney]

I love the idea of here's my resume. Send it to all potential employers and all my wives. Exactly like, oh my God.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

Yeah. Meanwhile, my mom, 24 years old, had just finished her master's degree in literature. She went home to her dad's place, her mom and dad's place in a town called Osmanabad. And at that time, Bhagati uncle was working there as an engineer, an adult working. And he went with his boss who was the, I guess like executive engineer of the city or some kind of something. And my mom's dad was a judge. So there was some kind of level of, you know, city official friendship. I don't know. They were having some kind of party or gathering at their house.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

And Baghdadian uncle went with his boss to my mom's father's house and they were all talking and his boss asked my grandfather, my maternal grandfather, oh, how's your family? I think I heard your daughter just finished school. How's she doing? My grandfather said, yeah, she's good. We're trying to find somebody for her. It's been a little tough. My mom was very picky and this was true even then, picky about everything. And so they were having a little bit of a hard time finding somebody that wouldn't work. So then Bagari uncle and his boss leave the party and right as they're leaving, they haven't gone far at all, according to my dad. And then he says to his boss, you know, actually I know somebody maybe, would it be okay? I actually have this cousin or maybe he called him his former 2T.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

And they went back to the house and I was like, oh. The next day he's like, oh, no, no, no. They hadn't really gone far yet. So they just turned back around. So same day, same night, they turned back around and go back in and say, actually we know somebody. He's, you know, comes from a good family. He's a nice, nice guy. He's coming back to the US in a couple weeks or whenever it was going to be, you know, soon he was coming back to the US and so then my grandfather the next day like went on, you know, like a pre Google deep dive of my dad and like tried to do all the research that he could about the Herewe family and oh my God. And then they met my dad at the Bogade's house when he came to visit. That was sort of like neutral territory, I guess.

[Kelsey McKinney]

This man is an icon. Like to leave a party and then be like, you know what? Actually I have a resume in my pocket from my former 2T/ cousin that I think is perfect for this is like a matchmaker, right?

[Rishikesh Hirway]

It's like, yeah, I have a resume slash dating profile right here.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah. And it worked even though your mom was picky?

[Rishikesh Hirway]

Yeah, they. They met my dad at the Bhagade house. And so my dad was in, you know, in India for 30 days. By the end of those 30 days, they were married.

[Kelsey McKinney]

That's wild. How long was it between meeting and. Actually, I couldn't.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

I couldn't get that information. But we've got less than three weeks to work with.

[Kelsey McKinney]

It's so nice that your parents found love and that it worked for them.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

High stakes first date. But gossip was a necessary component to this whole thing happening.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Wow. Oh, Alex is typing. Who knows what this could be? Wow. She says that she's hearing that Rishi owes his life to gossip. And in a way, in a way, yeah, it's true.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

I think that can't be denied.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Wow. That was beautiful. Thank you for bringing me that, Hrishi. I loved it. I love love. I love family. I also think a little bit of a nice continuity to the gossip that I have to tell you.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

Are you ready to go? Yeah, I'm scared, but I'm ready.

[Kelsey McKinney]

There is so much going on in the world today that is, like, very stressful and difficult and hopeless and like, completely outside of our control. And so personally, you know, I have not been sleeping well. This may be relatable. You, like, get into your bed, you stare at the ceiling, you remember all the terrible things that are going on in the world, and, like, what are you supposed to do? That's awful. Calm can help you restore your sense of balance and peace amidst outside chaos. All this stuff in your head, you need it to just be quiet for a little bit so that you can fall asleep. And there are so many options on the Calm app that just help help you calm your mind down and go to sleep. Calm is the number one app for sleep and meditation, giving you the power to calm your mind and change your life. Everyone faces unique challenges in their daily lives, and mental health isn't about a cookie cutter approach. That's why Calm offers a wide range of content and programs to help you navigate life's ups and downs, including meditations to help you work through anxiety and stress, boost your focus, build healthier habits, and take better care of your physical wellbeing. Sleep stories. My favorite. I love to be told a story to go to bed, sleep meditations and calming music that will all help you drift off to restful sleep quickly and naturally Grounding exercises if you're feeling overwhelmed. These are like short guided sessions that use sensation, movement and breath work to help you relax and reset. And expert led talks to help you handle grief, improve self esteem, care for relationships and more calm. Puts all the tools you need right in your pocket. Stress less, sleep more. And live better with Calm. For listeners of our show, Calm is offering an exclusive offer of of 40% off a Calm premium subscription at calm.com gossip. Go to c a l m.com gossip for 40% off. Unlimited access to Calm's entire library. That's calm.com gossip. Normal gossip is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. You chose to hit play on this podcast today. Smart choice. Make another smart choice with Auto Quote Explorer to compare rates from multiple car insurance companies all at once. Try [e-mail] Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Not available in all states or situations. Prices vary based on how you buy. Our friend of a friend today, we're going to call her Allegra.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

Okay?

[Kelsey McKinney]

And Allegra is from a huge Catholic family from a big city in the middle of the country. And this is the kind of family with, like, stories, right? Like stories about uncles who did God knows what. Great grandfathers who immigrated with suitcases full of cheese. Great, great ancestors who had feuds that, like, lasted generations. The kind of stories that get passed down and down and down forever.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

Epic.

[Kelsey McKinney]

The story I'm gonna tell you is about, like, one story, basically, that Allegra heard when she was in high school and that she thinks about constantly.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

Okay?

[Kelsey McKinney]

To tell this story, we have to do some genealog, you and me, to make sure that we understand the family tree.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

All right? Can I take notes?

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yes, you can.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

Taking notes.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Okay. So our main girl is Allegra. Okay. And we're going to be dealing with Allegra's grandfather's family.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

Okay.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Which is giant. I'm going to walk you through it. Okay? So Allegra is like the bottom of the tree.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

I put her in the wrong place.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah, exactly. And above her is Allegra's mom. The level above that is what I'm going to call the grand level. And this is the level where most of our drama is going to take place.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

Great.

[Kelsey McKinney]

So Allegra's mom's dad, her grandfather, his name is Enzo.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

Okay?

[Kelsey McKinney]

And Enzo is the youngest of 11 kids.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

Wow.

[Kelsey McKinney]

You do not need to know all of them because that's too many people. You only need to know two other people on this level. The first one is Aunt Julia. And the second is Aunt Maria.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

Got it.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Okay. And then the final level of our tree is like the great grandparents, the original matriarch and patriarch of this family.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

Okay, got it.

[Kelsey McKinney]

So Allegra heard this most important legend in her family when she was in high school, which was like a little more than a decade ago. And at this point, grand aunt Maria and grand aunt Julia were in their like early 80s.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

Okay.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Grand aunt Maria is a character. We're talking like always in a fur coat, always in pearls, always in skin.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

Tight leggings, going out to the grocery store. Fur coat.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Exactly. Where did her long dead husband's money come from? Don't ask that question. I didn't say anything about that.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

That's a different episode.

[Kelsey McKinney]

That's not our business. Okay. So grand aunt Maria lives in this giant house, like sweeping staircase with a metal railing, a driveway that's a whole loop. Like a big bathtub that can fit a whole adult. Like there's a fountain somewhere.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

Gotcha.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And she lives there with her sister, grand aunt Julia.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

Oh, that's nice.

[Kelsey McKinney]

You like it when sisters are friends?

[Rishikesh Hirway]

I like it that she has all of this luxury around her and she shares it with her family.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah. Grand aunt Julia's whole thing is that she is the most dramatic woman to ever live. Like something gets spilled, she's crying, she hears a couple fighting, she assumes they're getting a divorce. Right. Like she has to do laundry. It's the worst day of her life.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

Yeah, yeah. The sensitivity level is turned all the way up.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Exactly, exactly. Okay, so in high school, Allegra goes over and her granddance tell her this story, which I will now tell you.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

Okay.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Great Grandma Matriarch had 10 beautiful children. Her youngest was 6 years old when she decided she wanted one more child. An 11th child.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

That's just exhausting to think about. It's exhausting just to hear.

[Kelsey McKinney]

It's so many children.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

I don't know that I've ever had 11 of anything. I have four plates.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah, I have four plates. So she tries to have this 11th child for two years and does not become pregnant. And this is like very hard. Right. During this time she goes on a business trip with great grandpa patriarch to San Diego.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

Great.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And even though she was a Catholic woman, she was like so stressed and having such a hard time that she said, you know what I'm going to do? I'm going to see a psychic psa.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

And Diego. Yeah, that makes sense. Because when you're traveling, you can do things that you wouldn't normally otherwise do.

[Kelsey McKinney]

You think it makes sense to see a psychic in San Diego? This is something that is reasonable to you?

[Rishikesh Hirway]

Did I eat seven desserts when I was in London in two days? Yes. Different rules.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah, you're on vacation. So she goes to see the psychic in San Diego, and the psychic gives her three predictions. The predictions are she needs to move apartments.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

Okay. Is that a prediction or just advice?

[Kelsey McKinney]

Unclear. The second is that she would be pregnant by the end of the year.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

Okay.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And the third is that her eldest son, who was engaged at the time, must wait to get married until the baby was born.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

And what's the age difference here between, like, how old is the eldest son at this point?

[Kelsey McKinney]

At least 20.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

Man. Well, the whole thing stresses me out again, just to think about my own upbringing, because my mom, when I was a baby, she was at somebody's house, and there was another person visiting there. And that person was like, oh, you just had a baby. Do you want me to do their astrological chart? Because astrology is really big in India.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Right.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

And I think my mom was like, yeah, sure. So in any case, this woman did this whole astrological thing where reading a reading. And told my mom all this stuff about my life and my mom. And I don't know how old I was when my mom first told me this story. I think a teenager or something like that. But my mom started to tell me this, and I was like, I don't want to hear it. Don't tell me anything that she said at all. Please never talk to me about this. I have no interest in this. In fact, I have, like, an active interest in never hearing this again.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Wow. This is. You have never been farther from me. So you've never seen a psychic?

[Rishikesh Hirway]

I have never seen a psychic. It's true. And you know what else? I don't watch trailers for movies. As with movies, as in life, I will experience it when the time comes.

[Kelsey McKinney]

It's not your business what's gonna happen in the future.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

Exactly. No, my business is right now. Does this feel like it relates to the gossip thing?

[Kelsey McKinney]

Absolutely.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

I don't want the people at the beginning of the movie to be telling me about the movie behind the movie's back. I wait outside.

[Kelsey McKinney]

The movie did not.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

I wait outside until the trailers are over, and then I go sit down.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah, Rishi, like, do you have someone in there to text you? Or you.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

Well, now, you know, you can buy your seats ahead of time, which was such a gift for me. Right. So, yeah, I bet. I will just. Yeah. Hang out, and then, you know, I'll, like, sort of poke my head in. And now there are all these long kind of featurettes between the trailers. And the thing where you have Nicole Kidman saying, you know, heartbreak feels good in a place like this. And so then that's my cue to go sit down.

[Kelsey McKinney]

I love this. So psychic. Not for you. The future. Not for you. You reject it. Unfortunately, we have heard from a psychic already in this story.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

I've read enough Greek mythology. I don't trust prophecies.

[Kelsey McKinney]

That is smart. I think it's very smart to not trust a prophecy. Okay. So her great grandmother matriarch receives this prophecy, these three predictions. She returns home from San Diego, and she's like, it's time to get to work. It's time to put these predictions into action. She immediately finds her family a, like, bigger place to live. Yeah, they moved.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

She really trusted this psychic.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Sure enough, by the end of the year, she was pregnant.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

Okay.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And this is important. She was 48 years old.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

Wow.

[Kelsey McKinney]

So that baby became Enzo, the grandpa. So grandpa's whole life, he was like, spoiled, beautiful, miracle baby.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

But wait, but what about the third prediction? Did they follow that last one?

[Kelsey McKinney]

Good question. So because the first two predictions came true, great grandmother matriarch was like, well, we are absolutely following this third prediction, because safety first. Like, we don't want to offend the psychic.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

Right.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And so the eldest son did postpone his wedding until after the baby was born.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

Okay.

[Kelsey McKinney]

This is the family legend. Do you like it? What do you think?

[Rishikesh Hirway]

Yeah, it's stressful, but I think I. The reason why I don't want to hear about the future and I don't want to hear about prophecies is because they scare me too much. It sounds like my life is really ruled by fear, and maybe I guess it is. I'm just coming to keep learning this about myself, but I. Because I think I respect them too much. You know, I'm too scared of the idea of, like, if this is what is supposed to happen and you try and either thwart it, are you going to head into disaster, or are you going to somehow find yourself fulfilling the thing that you're trying to avoid?

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah. And I also think in a. In a family like this, right, like, because the psychic was right, this becomes lore. Yeah, Right. Like, were the psychic wrong, we would have never heard this story, and it would have disappeared forever.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

Yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Right.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

Yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

So this is the story a liger hears from her granddance. She loves it. She ends up going to college in California, and she's like, seeing psychics constantly, like, going down to San Diego because she's like, maybe I can find one that will give me the same kind of guidance. But never any love.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

Like, never. Never got a psychic that gave her anything good or just nothing that came true or just simply wasn't able to find a psychic.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Just like, never got this kind of psychic that would be like, here are things you should do. Everyone was going vague mode.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You will meet a mysterious stranger.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Exactly, Exactly. You will find fulfillment in your life. You will find a career that you like. It's like bomb. Perfect. How. Okay, you had to hear this whole story because it is important to our main drama, which takes place like, 10 years after Allegra graduated from college.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

Wow. This is an epic story. So we. We're spanning. This must be close to a century.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And importantly, in that 10 years, because the grand generation was all very old. Most of them have died.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

Okay.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Aunt grand Maria has died. Grandpa Enzo has died. Like, a bunch of people in the generations above her have died.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

No weird prophecy related tragedies.

[Kelsey McKinney]

No prophecy related tragedies. And what our story is concerned with is the death of Aunt Julia.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

Yes. Yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

The most dramatic woman to ever live. Because Aunt Julia is the last one of that grand generation to die. She died at a glorious age of 99 years old.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

And were she and Allegra close?

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yes. Like, Allegra would go over to her house and gab, like, she had a very good relationship with Allegra's mom. Like, they were close in a way that, like, families who are big and live in the same city can be.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

I wish I had that. I want to have. I mean, I really love my aunts and I really enjoy spending time with them. And I'd love, like, when we do all hang out, that is my information gathering period. You know, my sister and I will just be like, okay, tell us about this and tell us about that. But. But none of our aunts or uncles live anywhere close to us. Most of them, for most of our life, you know, they didn't live in this country. So that sounds really nice.

[Kelsey McKinney]

I think you like gossip so much more than I think you do. Like, seeing your aunts at being like, what were you doing in 1985? Like, that's okay. It's winter when grand Aunt Julia dies, it is cold. Everyone is sad. But they are also like, we loved our grand aunt Julia. She lived to 99 years old. She had this great full life.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

Did she continue to live in Maria's house?

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yes.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

Oh, great.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yes. She dies in grand aunt Maria's giant spiral staircase home, which is beautiful in a way. Everyone's doing the stuff that happens after someone's died, right? Like, they're telling stories. They're showing photos of them when they were 25 and being like, look how hot she was. Right? Like that whole Rigamer role. And one day Allegra's mom is like, hey, will you go with me to do, like, the funeral arrangements?

[Rishikesh Hirway]

Okay.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And this is a family that, like, knows how to throw a funeral because there were 11 grand generation people, and almost all of those people got married and had kids. Right. So they know how to throw a funeral.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

Yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

So Allegra goes with her mom and she helps her pick a coffin, helps her pick flowers, helps her do the obituary, all the normal stuff. They go to the funeral place, and the man at the funeral place is like, I'm so sorry for your loss. And they're like, thank you so much. And they're like, it's okay. You know, like, she lived such a long life. She was almost a hundred years old. And the man is like, what?

[Rishikesh Hirway]

Huh?

[Kelsey McKinney]

And they're like, what do you mean, what?

[Rishikesh Hirway]

Yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And he's like, well, that is going to be a problem.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

Okay. What?

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah. They're like, what's going to be a problem, man? What do you mean? And he's like, well, the problem is, according to the government records that we have, she was about to turn 94.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

Wow.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Which is much younger than a hundred.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

You know, I don't actually know how old my dad is.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Mystery is abound.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

Yeah, he might be one year older than. Or younger than what he is. Because sometimes in India they would just send kids off to school to just get them out the house and go, you know, because he's one of seven kids. And so I think they. There's a chance that they might have said that he was a year older than he was so that he could start school. And now nobody has any way of verifying. So I like this very much.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Incredible. The thing is, no one in this family knew that this was a controversy, Right? Like, they all were like, grand Aunt Julia is almost a hundred. And now they have this man in the funeral parlor being like, I don't think so. So Allegra and her mom are like, okay, whatever. Like, we don't care that your government records say 94.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

And right at this point, it's like.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Whatever, yeah, she's dead. And the man is like, not whatever. The government documents say one thing and you're saying another. And there are like, Logistical rules about dying. And we cannot finalize her death certificate until we know how old she was. And Allegra's mom is like, I don't care. This does not matter to me. I want this over with. And the man is like, I'm so sorry. That's not how this works. You have to get a birth certificate.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

Oh my gosh. You can't just be like, yeah, fine, you're the government. Okay, fine, we'll go with 94.

[Kelsey McKinney]

No, you cannot. Or at least they weren't allowed to. But the problem is they don't know how old she was. Right? Like, she's dead. Her parents are long dead, her siblings are. Are all dead. So there's no one to be like, when is your sister's birthday? So they're like fumbling around in the dark, right? They're like, can we order a new birth certificate for this dead woman who was either 99 or 93? It's unclear.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

Yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And because this is a big family and things are moving and a funeral is planned, they are on a time crunch. People are coming from out of town and it takes time to get a birth certificate for someone that old. What do you do here?

[Rishikesh Hirway]

Oh, man. I mean, do they know where she was born?

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah, they know where she was born.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

You know, even without the actual birth certificate, maybe there's other kinds of records that you can access. Like at a hospital or something like that. If you know the hospital.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Great idea. Everyone in this family is like, we're looking for evidence now. Like, we are going through the hundreds of drawers in grand aunt Maria's house that haven't been opened in decades. And we are looking for anything that is like an official document.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

Right. High school graduation.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Exactly. They're finding scrapbooks from a million years ago and folders and like tons of receipts that grand aunt Maria just like kept in bags for some reason. And they come up with two pieces of evidence. One is a scrapbook with like a picture of baby grandaunt Julia that has the date of her birth written, making her 99 years old.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

Oh.

[Kelsey McKinney]

The other is a tattered piece of paper that's like 70 years old with the names of everyone in the family incursive. And their brand new Social Security number and their ages. And this puts grand aunt Julia as younger. Oh, so you have two conflicting documents.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

And both of them are handwritten.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And both of them are handwritten.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

That's. This is juicy.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Do you know anything about the history of Social Security numbers?

[Rishikesh Hirway]

No.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Okay, great. I'm going to tell you Because I looked it up.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

Okay, great.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Social Security numbers were introduced by the Social Security Act in 1935. They began in earnest in November of 1936 with FDR's New Deal. And what we did as a country, I guess, was we converted a thousand post offices into typing centers, and then they just, like, made cards and shipped them to Washington. So that means that everyone who was born before 1936 did not have a Social Security number. Right. Someone was, like, coming to your house and being like, who lives here? What's their name? How old are they? Writing that down on a piece of paper and then getting you a card with a number on it. So the document that they have in the house is this document that is, like, from the family's Social Security numbers being assigned.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

Got it.

[Kelsey McKinney]

What, you're, like, scratching.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

Yeah. Just. Just thinking about, you know, like, the way names are changed at Ellis Island. You know, just the way that, like, one person who might have been sleepy, one Social Security, newly minted Social Security worker, might have not had their coffee that morning, and the way a four might look. I'm just thinking about all the ways that things could go wrong with the system.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yes. And there are, like, a couple of real problems with this document. Right. Like, people's names are spelled wrong. Like, the handwriting is borderline illegible.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

Yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Grandpa Enzo's quote, middle name is just the letter D. And sure enough, Julia's age is five years younger than the family thought it should have been.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

Yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Here's a question I have for you. If some guy came to the door and he was like, what's your name and your birthday and your age? Is it possible she just lied?

[Rishikesh Hirway]

I don't think so. I don't think that, especially at that time, it would be lying about a child's age. In my imagination of this, it's the grand matriarch, and she's giving the information. And a proud mom might say, these are my children, and these are their ages. And you would just tell the truth. You would just say, yeah, I have these 11 kids, and here's how old they are.

[Kelsey McKinney]

So I'm thinking about this as if I answer the door, and I'm like, I'm 33 years old.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

It's about your own age.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah. I'm like, if a government officer asks me my age, one, I might forget. Right. I might get it wrong. Who's to say? And two, the temptation to be like, I'm 28 is certainly there.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

Like, but then would you. Would you not think of that as your escape? Route. Yeah. Like, to be like, hey, look, government document backs this up. I'm only 28.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah, yeah, then you should.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

But then she continued to say 99. So I don't think the error lies on the family's part.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Okay. I love this read. Everyone in the family in present day, like, post aunt Julia's death is like, like, mystery solved. Somebody wrote down the age. Wrong. Maybe she lied. Doesn't matter. Right? Like, they're like, we have a document that says she's 93, which is what the government thinks she is. That's fine. We accept this false narrative. We'll get her buried.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

Priorities.

[Kelsey McKinney]

But at this point, Allegra's own mother is like, huh? I just, like, really thought there was going to be a bigger reveal here.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

Hmm. Why?

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah. Everyone's like, why would you think that? And Allegra's mother is like, well, right before granddad Julia died, she said something to me. And everyone's like, what did she say? And she's like, well, she told me that her whole life was a lie.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

What? Way to bury the lead, Hunty.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Huge news. I wrote a whole book of beautiful essays about gossip. It's called you didn't hear this from me, and I'm so, so proud of it. It's about how we use gossip. It's about Britney Spears and West Elm, Caleb and Gilgamesh and Picasso. And it's so, so fun. And I think it's really good. It comes out February 11th in hardback and a sexy audio book, which I read. You can buy it wherever you get. Books. Books. You can go to KelseyMcKinbook.com to see all the retailers where you could possibly buy a book from and to buy tickets for the upcoming book tour, which will be really fun and really exciting. That's KelseyMcKin. Book. Com. Spark something uncommon this holiday with just the right gift from Uncommon Goods. If you haven't finished your holiday shopping yet, don't panic. We've got a secret source for incredible original gifts, and that's Uncommon Goods. They've got unique handpicked gifts for everyone on your list, all in one spot. Gifts that spark joy, wonder, delight and will make people say, that's exactly what I wanted. Somehow they know exactly the perfect gift for every single person you know. So skip the gifts that scream last minute and find something truly original. @uncommongoods.com for example, a cute thing I found on there is this little craft kit that allows you to make mosaics that then turn into coasters. And you can put your drinks on it. And I think that's really nice. And a thing that I want someone to buy for me that's on that site is this little, little stand that you can put your book on while it's open so that you know where you are. And I think that's very cute. When you shop at Uncommon Goods, you're supporting artists and small independent businesses. Many of their handcrafted products are made in small batches. So shop now before they sell out this holiday season. From holiday hosts and hostess gifts to the coolest finds for kids to hits for everyone, from book lovers to die hard sports fans, Uncommon Goods has something for everyone. I was poking around there today and I saw that they have those little upside down helmets that you get I ice cream in at the baseball game sometimes, but you can just buy them on there. Very exciting. And with every purchase you make at Uncommon Goods, they give back $1 to a nonprofit partner of your choice. To get 15% off your next gift, go to UncommonGoods.com gossip that's UncommonGoods.com gossip for 15% off. Don't miss out on this limited time offer. Uncommon Goods we're all out of the Ordinary with all the hustle and bustle of the holidays, it can be hard to remember to take care of yourself. You go out shopping, you're shopping all day, you forget to take your makeup off and then you fall asleep with your makeup on your face and then it's all over your pillow and then your pores are all clogged. That's terrible. You don't need to do that. We know that the holiday season can be hectic, which is why we're excited to partner with Apostrophe, the sponsor of this episode who makes taking care of your skin simple and convenient. Apostrophe's goal is to help you feel confident in your own skin. Whether you're dealing with breakouts, signs of aging, or acne scarring, Apostrophe will help you love the skin you're in. It's an online platform that connects you with an expert dermatology team to get customized acne treatment for your unique skin. You can get access to oral and topical medications that use clinically proven ingredients to help clear acne. You simply fill out an online consultation about your skin goals and medical history. Snap a few selfies, and a dermatology provider will create a customized treatment plan just for you. Apostrophe offers access to prescription treatments for all kinds of acne, from hormonal acne to facial acne and even Back, chest and butt acne treat breakouts from head to toe. Famously, my skincare goal is to have no pores, to have beautiful smooth face like porcelain doll. And every time I tell the Apostrophe experts this, they help me. They figure out what I need. And it's so great because you don't have to make a doctor's appointment and go to a doctor. You can do it all at your house. Through the expert dermatology team. We have a special deal for our audience. Get your first Visit for only $5 at apostrophe.com gossip when you use our code gossip, that's a savings of $15. And this code is only available to our listeners. To get started, just go to apostrophe.com gossip and click get started. Then use our code gossip at signup and you'll get your first Visit for only $5. Thank you, apostrophe for sponsoring this episode. What do you do with this information?

[Rishikesh Hirway]

Yeah, how do you hit pause to be like, I need a lot more than that.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Everyone in this family is like, did you ask her follow up questions? Like, what else did she say? And Allegra's mom is like, to be honest, I just assumed she was being dramatic.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

Oh, fair.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Which, like, is a possibility, right? Because, like, grand aunt Julia was the most dramatic woman who ever lived. And so she could have just been saying this because she, like, learned that someone was.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

Yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

What's your instinct here? Do you think it's just dramatic?

[Rishikesh Hirway]

I. Oh, I feel like a bad relative. But yes, I think that she's just being dramatic. From everything that I know, all the time that I've spent with aunt Julia, I feel like she's an unreliable narrator when it comes to statements like these.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Certainly is. I think that's a great read. Everyone in the family is like, whatever, right? Like, this is becoming a whole thing. The funeral needs to continue. So they, like go to the funeral guy. They're like, so sorry, our bad. We were confused. We accept whatever the date the government has. Here's this document they have. Like, is this a lie? Yes. Whatever. Yeah, he's like, great, Things are being sorted. Like, sure, the date on her headstone is going to be wrong, but whatever. They're like, it's probably what granddad Julia would have wanted anyway.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

Oh, my gosh, Kelsey, I just remembered the seed that you have planted however many minutes ago. Now I'm full of dramatic tension.

[Kelsey McKinney]

In the lead up to the funeral, TikTok releases a new filter.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

Despite the compliment I just gave to your Storytelling technique. Worst transition ever.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Is it?

[Rishikesh Hirway]

No, no.

[Kelsey McKinney]

That filter is a filter.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

So much.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Go ahead, get it out.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

So much disrespect on Julia and her funeral. I'm so sorry. Pause on your dramatic lie of a life and your impending funereal rights. TikTok just dropped a new filter.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah. Yeah, I love it. Okay. And that filter, this is gonna connect, I promise. That filter is the filter that makes you look old. Do you remember this?

[Rishikesh Hirway]

I'm not on TikTok yet. Maybe I will be someday. But I remember that people were posting all these aged up pictures of themselves.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Exactly. Yeah. Allegra puts this filter on her beautiful 30 something face and it's a jump scare, right? And she's like, oh my God. Okay, I need more retinol. I need sunscreen. I got to take care of myself. But she's also like, like, wait a second. I look exactly like Granddad Julia.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

Okay, okay. I mean, could be. Could be fine. Sometimes familial relations, you know, whatever, there's. Yeah, who knows? Sure.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Genetics can be weird, right? Like I look like my dad's sister.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

Exactly.

[Kelsey McKinney]

For example. That's weird. So she has this picture of herself that looks exactly like granddad Julia. She takes a screenshot and she sends it to the family check. And everyone's like, oh my God, that's crazy. You look just like her. That's so cute. Right? Because it's like a. Adorable. And then suddenly Alegra is like looking around at everyone in her immediate family and she's like, we all kind of look like grand aunt Julia. Like, we all have her eyebrows and her hair and we love to be dramatic. Do you have any thoughts on this? You think she's reaching?

[Rishikesh Hirway]

I mean, again, genetics are weird. I'm. I'm not on board with any conspiracy theory yet.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yet Allegra is like ready to pull out the like red string, right? Like she's ready. She's on a mission. She's like, but what.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

What's her theory?

[Kelsey McKinney]

Okay. She's like, okay, my whole life is a lie, right? 93 or 99. And then she's like, wait a second. The legend.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

The legend.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Do you remember the legend of the psychic that I told you up top?

[Rishikesh Hirway]

Yes. They said to move houses. You were going to be pregnant by the end of the year and your eldest son needed to postpone his wedding until after the baby was born.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Bingo. Okay. Wow. Great memory. Incredible. Allegra is like thinking about this legend and she's like the part of it that just like never made sense to Me is like, why he moved the wedding? She's like, why would that wedding need to be moved? She's like, sure, the mom saw a psychic and the psychic told her to. But like, it's a baby. Like, what does that matter? You're a mother of 10. Like, it's not scandalous to be pregnant with your 11th child at your son's wedding, like, even if you're older. And then she's like, wait a second. She's like, she was like, so much older when she had Grandpa Enzo. Like, her 10 kid was born a full eight years before Allegra's grandfather.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

48 years old. Yes. Right.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And suddenly she's like, how old was Aunt Julia when Grandpa was born?

[Rishikesh Hirway]

Okay, wow.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Allegra is like, I'm going straight to my mom. Right? She goes straight to her mom. She's like, how old was Aunt Julia when grandpa was born? And her mom is like, hahaha. Who's asking? Because famously, she has two ages. And Allegra's like, mom, not now. Like, how old was she? And her mom is like, well, 20. She was 20 years old. Why? And Allegra's like, and she wasn't married, right? And her mom is like, yeah, she was never married. And Allegra's like, okay, hear me out. What if Aunt Julia got pregnant out of wedlock at 20 years old and had a secret pregnancy and a secret baby? And that secret baby was miracle baby Enzo, your father.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

And what? What did the mom say? She's never considered this possibility.

[Kelsey McKinney]

The mom is like, what? Like, where is this coming from? But Allegra is like, on a roll, right? She's like, and great grandma matriarch lied to cover for her so that her reputation wouldn't be ruined.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

Yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Now the two of them are cooking. The mom's like, oh, my God, the my whole life is a lie thing. It all makes sense, right? She's like, my aunt always is doted on me more than my other cousins. She's like, this is nuts. She's reeling. Allegra's like, yeah, I was always closer to Aunt Julia than all my other cousins. Like, what does it mean? They're like, this would make the wedding move make sense because it would be scandalous to have a pregnant Julia at the wedding.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

At the wedding. Right.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Or scandalous if she wasn't at the wedding.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

Right, Right. Wow. Okay. But I'm still a little bit unsure how this plays into the age change.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Allegra is like, well, she could be lying about her age, because if she's five years younger. She couldn't be her brother's mother.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

Oh. I mean, she could be, but. But certainly it would be then a different kind of story. Yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

She's like, it all makes sense.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

Yeah. Even if she's not the one doing the lying. Like, this is a conspiracy between her and her mom. So there's a concerted narrative that they're presenting. And so regardless of who's answering the door, for the Social Security person, they could say, here's the story that we're telling and we're sticking to it.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yep.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

Wow.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Are you buying this? Do you think that this ties up all the parts of the legend?

[Rishikesh Hirway]

I do buy it. Yeah. I buy it. And my heart breaks for everybody, for the lying, for Julia never being able to be the mom to her son, for Allegra never to get to relate to her as her great grandmother. It feels very tragic to me.

[Kelsey McKinney]

To lessen the tragic a little bit. The nice thing is that this is a very close family where, like, they were close.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

Yeah, yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Everyone was close. So it's like, it wasn't that she was, like, disconnected from her family. It was just that everyone was doing a lie at the grand level.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

Wow. A nice pun there.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Okay. There's one piece of the family legend that Allegra's like, this doesn't make sense. Allegra's like, why tell them to move apartments?

[Rishikesh Hirway]

Right?

[Kelsey McKinney]

So Allegra's like, okay, I'm convinced now that, like, she was pregnant, that grandma lied, that they moved the wedding to hide her pregnancy.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

Is San Diego even a place?

[Kelsey McKinney]

Right? She's like, is the legend even real? She's like, and why move? And this piece, like, grates on her, Right? Like, she's not sleeping in the lead up to this funeral because she's like, why would they move? Like, why would the psychic tell them to move?

[Rishikesh Hirway]

Right.

[Kelsey McKinney]

The funeral comes. It is like, both a joy and a pain to celebrate the life of Julia, who was either Allegra's great aunt or great grandmother.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

Yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

But, like, when you loved someone, it doesn't really matter exactly what their relationship was to you. Right? So she was like, I have all these beautiful memories with her. I loved her so much. I will miss her. Great thing about funerals is it's also a time to, like, riff with people that you love about the person who has died. Right?

[Rishikesh Hirway]

Right.

[Kelsey McKinney]

So they're riffing. Allegra's chatting it up with one of her mom's, like, random brothers, and she's telling him all about this situation. Right. She's, like, walking him through. She's like, I think legend is wrong. I think da da, da, da, da, da. And Drama, famously, is one of this family's most dominant traits. So he's, like, locked in.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

Yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And suddenly this guy is like, oh, you know, there's another weird, like, funny thing here. And Elegra's like, great, gimme. I'm looking for evidence. And this guy's like, your grandpa had a weird middle name. Oh, the letter D. And Allegra's like, the letter D. Exactly. And this guy's like, yeah, I think it was for Diego.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

Huh.

[Kelsey McKinney]

This is a strange middle name for this man to have. Right. Like, this is a family of Donnie's and Dinos and Marcos and that type of name.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

Yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Good old Italian names.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

Yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And Diego is, like, just off enough.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

Right.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And Allegra is like, San Diego. Like, he was named after the psychic city.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

Yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And her uncle, casually is like, oh, no, I don't think he was named after the city. I think he was named after the neighbor boy. And Allegra's like, what? And he's like, oh, yeah. Like, when your granddads were growing up, there was a family next door, and the kids were, like, the same age, and the oldest was named Diego.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

Wow, That's a real clue. That's more than a clue, Drama. Yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Allegra's like, oh, my God. That's why they had to move.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

Oh, wow.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Grand aunt Julia got knocked up by the neighbor boy.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

I forgot about the moving part. I was so excited about the discovery of Diego, they had to keep them apart for me. Then you have to track down Diego. Right. Does she try and find out who Diego is?

[Kelsey McKinney]

The first thing she does is, like, run around and tell everyone. Right. She's like. She's like, oh, my God. Guys, guys, guys. I've, like, figured it out.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

Yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And a bunch of the people who, like, knew the grand generation really well are like, oh, my God. That makes so much sense. Like, he was always around.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

Yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Like, he, like, loved your grandfather. Like, he was kind of like an uncle to a lot of us. Like, that's crazy.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

Well, he sounds great. Why would they have to move away?

[Kelsey McKinney]

I don't know. Unfortunately, we are at the end of this story. How do you feel? Whose side are you on?

[Rishikesh Hirway]

First of all, I was riveted. I would absolutely watch this, like, prestige drama. You know, I'm imagining the period piece costumes, and. Oh, it's just great. It was. Thank you so much for letting me hear this story, because I loved it.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Thank you.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

Great. Wow. So exciting. Please bring me back for the sequel. When we find Diego.

[Kelsey McKinney]

When we get bored.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

Yeah. I need to complete my red string board here of genealogy and.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah, I know, it's infuriating. Do you feel like you can take a side in this story?

[Rishikesh Hirway]

Yeah, I'm on the side of the truth and I don't care who I have to go through to get it.

[Kelsey McKinney]

I do like that you're like, knowing about the future. Not my business. I reject it. Knowing about the past, I must know. Exactly.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

Yes. Yeah. Because those are facts.

[Kelsey McKinney]

I do have like one very final update for you.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

Okay.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Which is that, like, ultimately there is no way to know if she lied. Like, everyone who would have known the truth took it to their grave with them.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

Right. Yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

But someone did find a photo of Diego in one of the family albums and he looked exactly like grandpa. Wow.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

Oh, beautiful. And a tragedy. I mean, just poor Diego and Julia, star crossed lovers. But I also love a tragedy.

[Kelsey McKinney]

So, Rishi, thank you so much for coming on the show. It was a delight to have you.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

Thank you so much for having me. This was really an epic saga and thanks for therapizing me a little bit about my relationship with.

[Sean Connard]

Thank you for listening to Normal Gossip. If you have a gossip story to share with us, email us at normal gossip defector.com or you can leave us a voicemail at 2679 GOSSIP. If you love this podcast and want to support us, become a friend or a friend of a [e-mail] you can follow the show on Instagram and TikTok. Talk at Normal Gossip. You can follow Kelsey on all social media at McKinney Kelsey. This podcast was produced by Alex Sujon Laughlin, Ozzy Linus Goodman and J. Towel Vieira. Justin Ellis is Defector's projects editor. Jasper Wang and Sean Kuhn are Defectors business guys. Alex Sujohn Laughlin is Defector's supervising producer. Tom Lay is our editor in chief. Abigail Siegel is our intern. Dan McQuaid runs our merch store Store which you can find at normalgossip store. Tara Jacoby designed our show Art. Thank you to Rachel Hampton, Brandi Jensen, Sabrina Imbler, Dave McKenna, Chris Thompson, Heather Chen, Ray Ratto, David Roth, Catherine Hsu, Jasper Wang, Israel Daramilla and Patrick Redford for your help on this season. Thanks to the rest of the Defector staff. Defector Media is a collectively owned subscriber based media company. Normal Gossip is a proud member of Radiotopia. Normal Gossip is Hosted by Kelsey McKinney. I'm Sean Connard, and remember, you did not hear this from me.

[Rishikesh Hirway]

Radiotopia from prx.