Forbidden Feline Fanfiction with Ashley Reese

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Forbidden Feline Fanfiction with Ashley Reese"

Normal Gossip Episode Released on October 9, 2024, featuring guest Ashley Reese.

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Introduction to Gossip in the Digital Era

Kelsey McKinney opens the episode by welcoming Ashley Reese, a seasoned writer with a diverse portfolio in politics, entertainment, and personal memoirs. The conversation swiftly delves into the transformation of gossip in the age of the internet.

• Ashley Reese highlights the shift from public platforms like Twitter to more private mediums such as group chats for sharing gossip:

  "[00:02:44] I honestly think that more people should do that. Too many people put things on main."

• Kelsey McKinney echoes this sentiment, emphasizing the art of selective gossiping:

  "[00:03:51] If you are shit talking on main in public where other people can see it, you open yourself up to criticism."

• The discussion advances to the rise of TikTok as a new frontier for gossip, where the blend of visual presence and personal disclosure complicates traditional anonymity:

  "[00:04:31] There's like something about gossiping, particularly on TikTok where it's like you are essentially standing in front of a microphone to share this gossip."

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Ashley Reese's Comedic Gossip Story

Transitioning from general gossip trends, Ashley Reese presents a humorous yet cringe-worthy story submitted by a listener. The tale revolves around a friend’s tumultuous relationship with a man obsessed with veganism and roaches.

• Ashley Reese recounts:

  "[00:05:28] He required that she brush her teeth before kissing him because she eats animals and animal pride products and he doesn't."

• The situation escalates with the boyfriend's roach-infested apartment, leading to comedic horror:

  "[00:07:16] ...he invites her over to stay the night... there was a roach in the bed."

• Kelsey McKinney reacts with both horror and amusement:

  "[00:12:04] Imagine brushing your teeth in this apartment because your boyfriend won't let you kiss him."

• The story concludes with the friend exiting the bizarre relationship but remaining entangled for another five months:

  "[00:11:24] She dates women again. This is definitely something that would probably put someone off men."

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Deep Dive into Warrior Cats Fanfiction

The episode's centerpiece is an in-depth exploration of Warrior Cats fanfiction, narrated through a fictional story about a character named Victoria.

Understanding the Warrior Cats Universe

Kelsey McKinney provides an overview of the Warrior Cats series, highlighting its complex social structures and rich lore:

• Kelsey McKinney explains:

  "[00:17:04] ...anthropomorphic feral cats divided into clans based on the terrain in which they live... hierarchical naming conventions."

• The concept of the Star Clan, a form of feline afterlife, introduces religious undertones into the narrative:

  "[00:20:10] The warrior cats universe also has a religion, the Star Clan, where dead warrior cat ancestors communicate via dream and omen."

Victoria's Journey in the Fanfiction Community

Ashley Reese narrates Victoria's immersion into the Warrior Cats fanfiction community, detailing her creative endeavors and interpersonal dynamics.

• Victoria begins by creating her character, Baby Moon, and faces immediate criticism for not adhering to community rules:

  "[00:24:49] ...new characters must start with 'Paw.' Victoria is like, 'I have stolen valor. I am canceled.'"

• She collaborates with Kristen, a senior member of the community, to refine her storytelling:

  "[00:26:35] Kristen is like, we can still make it very cute... can still make them kind of falling for each other."

• Their collaboration blossoms into a complex relationship interconnected with their fanfiction works, leading to manipulation and deceit within the community:

  "[00:53:34] They're like, 'Is Kristen the puppet master?'"

Themes of Manipulation and Betrayal

The narrative underscores themes of manipulation within fanfiction communities, as Victoria uncovers the orchestrated relationship between Kristen and Jordan.

• Kelsey McKinney highlights the betrayal:

  "[00:55:13] And Kristen and Jordan co-wrote a story that sent both of their cats to the land of no stars."

• The story concludes with Victoria reclaiming her narrative power, exposing the corruption, and disbanding the restrictive council:

  "[01:05:03] ...they're just gonna go back to writing regular fanfiction like regular people."

Notable Quotes and Insights

• Ashley Reese reflects on the personal impact of fanfiction:

  "[00:16:20] ...you really do put a bit of yourself into the stories you write."

• Kelsey McKinney emphasizes the importance of self-expression and revenge through storytelling:

  "[00:56:22] ...she is gonna write a fanfiction to get me through this."

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Concluding Insights

The episode wraps up with a contemplation of the balance between creative expression and community dynamics within fanfiction spaces. Ashley Reese commends Victoria's resilience and the cathartic potential of storytelling, while Kelsey McKinney appreciates the intricate blend of humor and drama in gossip narratives.

• Ashley Reese concludes:

  "[00:62:20] ...she lucked out. It has a happy ending."

• Kelsey McKinney acknowledges the transformative journey:

  "[00:61:10] ...Victoria could promote herself to star. So she was thrilled about that."

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Final Thoughts

"Forbidden Feline Fanfiction with Ashley Reese" intertwines humor with a critical examination of online communities, illustrating how storytelling can both reflect and influence personal and collective experiences. The episode serves as both entertainment and a commentary on the complexities of digital social interactions.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• Ashley Reese on group chat gossip:

  "[00:02:44] ...more people should do that. Too many people put things on main."

• Kelsey McKinney on selective gossiping:

  "[00:03:51] ...you don't need criticism. You want to be in a beautiful echo chamber of your friends."

• Ashley Reese on TikTok gossip dynamics:

  "[00:04:31] People can very easily find your government name."

• Ashley Reese on Victoria's friend's relationship:

  "[00:05:28] ...she was dating a man who required that she brush her teeth before kissing him."

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This episode offers a nuanced exploration of how modern platforms shape the way we share and perceive gossip, all while weaving a compelling narrative about power, betrayal, and self-discovery within fanfiction communities.

Transcript

[Alex]

Hey there, it's Alex. You may have heard at the end of our episodes the phrase Normal Gossip is a proud member of Radiotopia, but maybe you don't know what that means. The media industry is kind of garbage right now and it is harder than ever for independent creatives to own their own work, get paid for their work, and to make a living off of their work. Radiotopia is trying to make that possible for more independent creators. They're really great partners for us and we have been so happy to work with them. Every year Radiotopia does a fundraising drive and right now we have a goal of reaching 2024 donors and maybe one of them is you. Your donations in the fall fundraiser go into marketing, ad sales, technology, and it also makes it possible to bring on new shows in the future. So maybe your next favorite podcast is just around the corner. If you are a Normal Gossip or Defector subscriber, that is different. If you donate during the fall fundraiser, you'll get a link to a curated list of all Radiotopia producers favorite things. As a token of thanks, I included something in there. You will never guess what it is. If you're listening to this episode right now, you are already supporting the work of Normal Gossip, Defector Media and Radiotopia. But if you want to take that one step further, donate to the Radiotopia Fall FundRaiser, visit Radiotopia FM, donate to learn more and add your name to the list of awesome listeners who support independent podcasts. Thanks.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Hello and welcome to the season premiere of Normal Gossip. We are so happy to be back. I am Kelsey McKinney and in each episode of this podcast we're going to bring you an anonymous morsel of gossip from the real world. I'm so excited to have with me today Ashley Reese. I'm going to read your bio now. Ashley Reese is a Los Angeles born New York based writer who has spent most of her career reporting about politics, entertainment and her own sex life. You've probably seen people yelling at her on Twitter. Her work can be found in New York Magazine, Jezebel, Essence, Teen Vogue and more. She recently launched Bad Brain, a newsletter about life, death, pop culture and the Internet. She's writing a memoir documenting her journey from 25 year old virgin to 33 year old widow for Atria Books, an imprint of Simon and Schuster. Ashley, welcome to the podcast.

[Ashley Reese]

Hi. Thank you for having me. I'm so excited to be here.

[Kelsey McKinney]

We're so excited to have you here.

[Ashley Reese]

I'm ready to gossip.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Oh great. Because that's what we're going to do. We're both, you and I, children of the Internet. We love to be online. Where does posting turn into gossip?

[Ashley Reese]

I think that now so much of the gossip is in the sub tweet. Some of the best gossip I get is in the group chat and it's like taking something you saw online, putting it in the group chat and being like, yep, yep, yep. And I honestly think that more people should do that. Too many people put things on Maine.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yes.

[Ashley Reese]

Like, put the messy. Like I'm just like what you do, you take a screenshot or a link, drop it in the group chat and then talk shit.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah. I also think part of like the art, if you will, of being a shit talker is knowing where to place it. Right. Because like, if you are shit talking on main in public where other people can see it, you open yourself up to criticism. Like, if I want to shit talk, I don't want criticism. I want to be in a beautiful echo chamber of my friends who all dislike this person we're texting about. Like, that's the whole point.

[Ashley Reese]

I agree with you. But I also think that now we're in this time where like people don't have much sense but they really want attention. So I think that's how you get into like tick. Like, I think TikTok gossip is like a whole other level of how you kind of get. It's because it's one thing to be on Twitter and be like at least like semi anonymous or just kind of be like a random kind of bitchy person online.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah.

[Ashley Reese]

But with TikTok you have your face.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yep.

[Ashley Reese]

Maybe people can very easily find your government name.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah. No, I think about this a lot that there's like something about gossiping, particularly on TikTok where it's like you are essentially standing in front of a microphone to share this gossip. Yeah.

[Ashley Reese]

It's a little more town crier, you know what I mean? It's a little bit more that instead of just like you're with your girls with a small group chatting or even like the brevity that is required of a tweet, you know, when you're doing a little drive by talk shit, then you're like. And people are like, oh, who's this about? Who's drive by? Yeah. You know, and I've done that. I really did that the other day and had people DMing me be like, girl, who is this about? And I'm like, let me tell you. But like when you're doing it on TikTok, you have girls going on for like three minutes. Yep, yep, yep. I'm just kind of like, are you doing it for love of the game? Are you doing it to get attention? You know what I mean?

[Kelsey McKinney]

Okay. I think that that is actually, like, we've reached what, what my actual problem with it is, right? Which is that, like, it is about love of the game, right? Like, I'm like, if you gossip for the love of the game, you don't need attention, you don't need views. You just need laugh. You need your friends laugh. And that is the love of the game.

[Ashley Reese]

Yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

I was told that you might have brought a gossip for me. Is that true?

[Ashley Reese]

Oh, I sure do.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Can I have it?

[Ashley Reese]

Yeah. Okay. So I have a friend, we've been friends for several years now. She generally dates women, generally attracted to women for as long as I've known her. And so it was to my great surprise when she told me that she was dating a man.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Oh.

[Ashley Reese]

And I was like, oh, okay. Like, you know, It's. It's the 2000s. Like, you know, you can do what you want. And I'm like, okay, interesting. Like, tell me more. So she tells me about this guy. And you know what? You want to be encouraging to a friend and you don't want to be like, oof.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah.

[Ashley Reese]

So I try to do that. She mentioned that he's vegan, which is not against the law. That's fine. Many such cases, people are vegan. People are vegan, and that's fine. My friend is not vegan. Okay. But then she told me that he required that she brush her teeth before kissing him.

[Kelsey McKinney]

What? Excuse me?

[Ashley Reese]

Yeah, because she eats animals and animal pride products and he doesn't. And he felt dirty. I guess having her kiss him without having her teeth brushed first. And I guess this is something that she was willing to compromise on, but she didn't feel great about it.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Okay.

[Ashley Reese]

And I'm just like, okay, girl, do you like it is what it is. One day he invites her over to stay the night. She finds out by going to his apartment. He lives in a roach infested apartment. And I. When I say roach infested. No, I mean they were in bed and there was a roach in the bed.

[Kelsey McKinney]

No, no, no.

[Ashley Reese]

She went to shower. She reaches for the soap, there's a roach on the soap. She looks up at the ceiling. There are roaches on the ceiling.

[Kelsey McKinney]

No, girl, you gotta get out. Get out. Run.

[Ashley Reese]

And you wanna know why there are roaches in the house?

[Kelsey McKinney]

I'm scared. Is it. Is it because he values life so much.

[Ashley Reese]

Is that why refuses to kill the roachers? He believes in the dignity of all creatures, big and small, including disgusting roaches. And this was a pickle for him because on the one hand he was aware that this was, you know, not great. Yes, but not to the point of actually like getting an exterminator or getting some fucking raid and inviting a girl over to stay the night in your roach infested apartment. So from then on, she didn't go over there. She invited him over to hers inside. Into which I was exactly right. But I was always just like, what if he brings something to your place? What if he like, traces in like a roach egg or something, like on his shoes or on his clothes?

[Kelsey McKinney]

Do. Are bed bugs also a form of life that we have to respect in this scenario?

[Ashley Reese]

I would love to hear his take on that. But then he invites her over for a party and she is a little apprehensive about this because, you know, there was a roach in their bed. But I think he said that he like, promised to clean. He promised to like kind of straighten things up. He's like, I know, like, the bugs are an issue. Like, we're going to clean, it's going to be fine. And my friend is a trusting person and. Oh, no, girl, party night. She gets there, she brings some muffins and like some Prosecco or something.

[Kelsey McKinney]

No, it's nice of her to bring the roaches.

[Ashley Reese]

Funny that you say that.

[Kelsey McKinney]

No.

[Ashley Reese]

Fuck. You know how you're at a party and you know a party that's generally in a place that isn't roached fest and you just like maybe have a bite of something, you like, set it down on a plate and you like maybe walk away for a second, do something else. Chat. Chat.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah.

[Ashley Reese]

She looks back like a minute later, swarming with roaches. The Prosecco bottle she brought, swarming with roaches, just covered, like, just like scattered like here, here, there's like. But, you know, I'm actually not sure if the Prosecco bottle being covered in roaches was before or after he, her boyfriend went into the dishwasher, opened it, try to get a glass out of it for her roaches in the, in the, in the dishwasher, like in the little like crevice, you know, crevices of it. Open the fridge, there was a roach.

[Kelsey McKinney]

No. Okay. Like, try to like wrap my mind around being in a room like this because, like, I feel like the way that people respond to roaches is like visceral and loud. Often, like people are Shrieking when there are roaches around. So I'm like, how are people just hanging out at this party?

[Ashley Reese]

Like, I think a lot of people are also high.

[Kelsey McKinney]

But my friend wants to say, I imagined it.

[Ashley Reese]

Yeah, I don't know, maybe they were just like, really chill about it. I mean, look, every single vegan I know would think this is acceptable way to live. They would, like, even, you know, even if they. Some sort of sympathy for it, they would just be like, this is a health hazard. Which it is. My friend spent the night sitting outside, like, on his porch to get away from the bugs. It was winter.

[Kelsey McKinney]

The thing is, if a bug is outside with you, that's fine. You're in their house now. Yeah, like, that's allowed.

[Ginger Hollander]

Right?

[Kelsey McKinney]

But I don't need to be inside.

[Ashley Reese]

With all the roaches when you go. When you're also going outside in New York City to escape past the bad side, that's an issue. That's a really, really bad fucking sign, man. Um, so on the plus side, she is no longer with this person.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Okay, great.

[Ashley Reese]

She dates women again. This is definitely something that would probably put someone off men, they're like. They're like, yeah, I don't know why I did that. But the less good thing about that is that she still stayed with him for another five months afterwards.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Also, like, I'm sorry to. This is. It's so gross. But I'm like, imagine brushing your teeth in this apartment because your boyfriend won't let you kiss him unless you've brushed your teeth. And his toothbrushes are just out on the counter in this home of roaches. Like, I'm like roach house girl.

[Ashley Reese]

I really, I really hope he learned. I hope that he is in a better place to. I hope it's a better, like mental play, mental space to like to decide that this is actually a priority and that like, you were. That's like peak scaring the host.

[Kelsey McKinney]

I also hope he has found a way to control the roaches that does not make him upset. Like, there has to be a way. Yes.

[Ashley Reese]

Right. I'm sure there is. I'm sure if you Google it with Reddit on the end, you will find something. You will find lots of stuff.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Wow.

[Ashley Reese]

You know, thank you for bringing me.

[Kelsey McKinney]

This terrifying roach boy gossip. It was disgusting and I did not like it.

[Ashley Reese]

That's exactly what I wanted to hear.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Beautiful. Do you want to hear the gossip that I have special picked for you?

[Ashley Reese]

Of course I do.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Normal gossip is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever find yourself playing the Budgeting game. Well, with the name your price tool from Progressive, you can find options that fit your budget and potentially lower your bills. Try [e-mail] Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates Price and coverage match limited by state law. Not available in all states. It is the early 2000 and tens. And our friend of a friend. We're going to call her Victoria. Victoria has just graduated from high school. She's thrilled. In some ways though, graduating from high school is bad because like two of her best friends have already left her hometown. And so she's like, I'm stuck here at home in my parents house. I feel like an adult, but I'm not yet. And I'm like desperate to leave.

[Ashley Reese]

Not a girl, not yet a woman.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Exactly. Yeah. And she's like, I'm gonna get to leave right? In the fall. I'm going to college. But like for this one summer, I'm stuck here with no friends. She's like, but in some ways, graduating from high school and my friends being gone is actually fine because as a present for graduating, her parents got her her own laptop. Oh, why are you saying oh already? Laptops aren't. Oh.

[Ashley Reese]

I mean, they're, they're not in general unless you're a chaos agent in which they can be a big. Oh.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Mm. And Victoria is an Internet girly. Like she spent most of her preteen years glued to the family computer, like listening to that terrible sound as it connects to the Internet so that she could like log on to AIM and message her crushes.

[Ashley Reese]

Oh, yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

She spent like all of her weekend hours messaging, setting up away messages with like meanings. But now she's like a little older, She's a little more mature. She's like, am I a little different now? She's like, I don't want to get onto AIM and just like message all these dummies I went to high school with. I don't want to get onto Facebook messenger and message all these dummies I went to high school with. Like, I want to imagine a bigger world. I want to discover aspects of myself. I want to form a community. She's like, I want to be creative. She wants to write. Oh, fan fiction.

[Ashley Reese]

Yes. Yes, that's exactly what I wanted to hear. You go girl. You go girl. A girl. A girl with my own heart. I love it.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Can you tell the listeners a little bit about your history with fan fiction?

[Ashley Reese]

Oh, my history with fan fiction is that I started reading fan fiction when I was God, probably like me sixth, seventh grade, like middle school in the early 2000s. I read a lot of different fandoms, fan fiction, but my main fandom of choice was Harry Potter. And let me just say, fast forwarding like, 20 years after getting involved, almost 20 years after getting involved in that, some of my best friends and the most important people who I know in my life I have met from fanfiction. Not in the 2000s, but literally in the last, like, four years. Like, I'm literally, like, planning a trip to Crete with one of my girlies who I met through fanfiction, another one who fanfiction that I read, who I'm obsessed with. Like, we talk, and I'm not joking. Every single day. She was over here. I went over to hers. Yeah, it's kind of like a part of my life that, like, I say that I don't really. I don't like to talk to civilians about it because it's just like the girls who get it. Get it and the girls who don't. I don't want to have to. I don't like to explain myself too much about that, but totally. Yeah. And I have also written lots of fan fiction. Do I have a giant Google Doc full of, like, fixed stuff that I just haven't published yet? Maybe. Who's to say?

[Kelsey McKinney]

Whose business is that?

[Ashley Reese]

Do I want to maybe get that out of the way before my actual book publishes my actual memoir? Yes. But anyway, Streets will know when I published.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Oh, my God. Okay. All fanfiction has, like, an object of its desire. Right? So, like, most major franchises have a fan fiction community. Famously, like, 50 shades of gray was Twilight fan fiction. Right. But there's also fan fiction for tons of other, like, smaller franchises that aren't Twilight size. Right. There's, like, fan fiction for the Mighty Ducks. You know, the ice is cold, but their hearts are warm.

[Ashley Reese]

Yeah, No, I literally read, like, Ed, Edd and Eddie fan fiction when I was true.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Exact. And Victoria is like, I want to have fun. Right. I want to be passionate about the thing I'm writing fan fiction about, and I want to have a depth of knowledge, period. Which is why she picks the young adult book series warriors, also known as Warrior Cats.

[Ashley Reese]

Yes. Wait, do you.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Do you know about Warrior someone?

[Ashley Reese]

Actually. So I didn't read it growing up or anything, but someone actually mentioned this to me. I think it may be one of my friends who's a librarian mentioned this, but people love those books. People have, like, people love books about, you know, animals. Warrior animals. Cats. People love. Definitely love cats.

[Kelsey McKinney]

So, yeah, to continue with this story, you do need to know some things about warrior cats. So I'm gonna go through some things that I think are important. Okay. This book series began publishing in 2003. It is about anthropomorphic feral cats. There are, like, 50 of these books now, and they are still being published.

[Ashley Reese]

Oh, my God.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Something I thought was fun when I was researching this is that the creator of this series, her name is Victoria Holmes, and, like, a publisher came to her, and they were like, victoria, we think a great idea is to write a bunch of books about feral cats. And she said, you know, I don't know that there's enough material about feral cats. I don't know that I'm that interested in them. Here is a quote from an interview quote. But to make the story interesting for me, personally, parentheses. Because as most of you know, I'm not the greatest cat fan in the. In parentheses, I put loads of extra stuff into the storyline, like war, politics, revenge, doomed love, and religious conflict.

[Ashley Reese]

Hell, yeah. That's what I'm talking about. You gotta make it juicy. You gotta make the cat life juicy.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah. One of the most common plots in warrior cats is forbidden love.

[Ashley Reese]

I don't know if I wanna imagine, like, cats, like, being intimate.

[Kelsey McKinney]

This is also a problem that I have with this series. But you know what? No judgment. Go off. Whatever you like. Okay. Some other things you should know about the series is that the warrior cats are, like, divided into clans based on the terrain in which they live. So, like, wind clan, Thunderclan, river clan, et cetera. And all the clans are hierarchical, and that hierarchy extends to naming conventions. So important cats have important names.

[Ashley Reese]

Okay, like, what is an important cat name?

[Kelsey McKinney]

Thank you for asking. It's like, the most important cat name ends in, like, star. So it's like a suffix situation.

[Ashley Reese]

Okay.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And the warrior cats universe also has a religion, and the religion is called the star clan, which is where dead warrior cat ancestors go, and they can communicate via dream and omen. And they live in a paradise forest, which is basically heaven. But warrior cats also has a hell called the place of no stars, where the spirits of bad cats go.

[Ashley Reese]

Oh, my God. That's crazy.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Warrior cats fan fiction is, like, incredibly popular. On fanfiction.net there are only five bigger communities than warriors, and they are Harry Potter, Twilight, Percy Jackson, Lord of the Rings, and Hunger Games. And after those five is warriors.

[Ashley Reese]

After that is warriors. You're kidding me.

[Kelsey McKinney]

No.

[Ashley Reese]

Okay. I have so many questions, but keep it. Keep it. Keep it going. Keep it going.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Victoria begins reading. She's like, what? I'm gonna do is I'm gonna read first before I write. So she, like, reads all of these stories that exist already, and she's noticing that, like, people are doing the kind of fanfiction where, like, you create your own character and then what's happening and what she's noticing is that these characters are then showing up in other people's fan fictions. Right? So, like, oh, my God, I write a fan fiction, and I include your character in mine.

[Ashley Reese]

It's like, it's. I would call that fanon. It's like, kind of like. It's like. It's like a canon that the fans create. I have a lot of feelings about that in a fandom that I am in Harry Potter fandom. Roger, it's fine. It's happening a lot more than it used to, and it's drives me nuts. But I want to know what Victoria thinks about this.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Okay. Victoria's reading it, and she's like, I love this. She's like, I love that people's characters are showing up. It's like, to give a modern example, it's like when one of your friend's animal crossing characters comes to your island, right? Like, oh, my God, this is thrilling. She loves this. She begins writing, like, day and night. She gives her character a beautiful name. She names her cat Baby Moon.

[Ashley Reese]

Baby Moon.

[Kelsey McKinney]

She's like, I love my cat Baby Moon. And she writes her first story about Baby Moon, who is not her, who is a cat. Baby Moon is all alone. All of Baby Moon's friends have abandoned her, and she's stuck in a place where she can't thrive.

[Ashley Reese]

Oh, but it's not a self insert. Got it.

[Kelsey McKinney]

It's not a self insert. Baby Moon is different, and also, Baby Moon is so beautiful, but she doesn't know it. She has dreams that are so much bigger than this small town.

[Ashley Reese]

Oh, my God. She's like a pop punk song.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Can't fanfiction be a way to process your own light?

[Ashley Reese]

Yes. It actually so is. I am so serious. My friend and I talk about this all the time. We're like, we're processing our trauma through these, like, dead characters. Like, so that's why self inserts, as much as they're like, ugh. And, like, so cringe, they make so much sense. Because if you're not doing it through a self insert, you're kind of putting your own trauma through another established character.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yes. So for Victoria, she's like, baby Moon is my best friend. Baby Moon is me. Baby Moon is helping.

[Ashley Reese]

Oh, my God.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Baby Moon she publishes her first story about Baby Moon. And she's like, I'm so proud.

[Ashley Reese]

Oh, no.

[Kelsey McKinney]

The next morning, she has a private message on this platform. And the message is from someone named Howling Star. Victoria clicks this person's, like, username, right? And Howling Star has more than a hundred stories. And her character is in so many stories.

[Ashley Reese]

Oh, my God.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Like, Howling Star is an important warrior cat.

[Ashley Reese]

Oh, my God. Okay.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And HowlingStar is like, I read your story. It's super good. I really think it's great. You have so much, like, possibility. I really think you could be really good. But you clearly did not read the rules of this community.

[Ashley Reese]

What?

[Kelsey McKinney]

Please read them as soon as possible. And she links. Victoria's like, oh, my God, this is so embarrassing. All I want is to be part of this community. And now I have fucked up immediately. She goes through the rules, and she's like, okay, let's see. And the rules are like, you know, like, no using other people's characters without permission. She's like, okay, I didn't do that. The rules are like, no plagiarism. She's like, great. I didn't do that. The rules are like, no members of the council can date other members of the community. She's like, I don't even know what that means. But, like, midway down, she sees this, like, rule, and it reads, all new characters for the Warrior Cats community must contain a full story arc. It does not matter if you are a longtime poster or a newbie. All new characters must start with the last part of their name as Paw.

[Ashley Reese]

What? Oh, my God. So because of the hierarchy thing. Oh, you gotta be kidding me. What? She, like, started off too high up on the rankings.

[Kelsey McKinney]

It's like, until you are granted your warrior name, you must use pa and the council decides on all promotions.

[Ashley Reese]

Who is the council? These random girls who decided they're on the council. I hate this.

[Kelsey McKinney]

I hate this.

[Ashley Reese]

What is going on? The warrior community.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Victoria is like, oh, my God, this is so bad. Like, I named myself Baby Moon instead of Baby pa. I have stolen valor. I am canceled. She's like, this is awful. And she's also upset because she's like, I've read all of these books. Like, I should have known better.

[Ashley Reese]

I think she's like, how could I have done this?

[Kelsey McKinney]

So she has, like, six hearts on this original story, but you have broken a rule. Do you delete and republish?

[Ashley Reese]

She shouldn't have to take anything down. That's insane.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Like, who. Who died and made you the king?

[Ashley Reese]

Right? Who made this council, like, I've never heard of such a thing.

[Kelsey McKinney]

She's like, okay, now that I know how the ranking system works, I'm going to take this down. I'm going to replace Baby Moon with Baby Paw, and I'm going to repost.

[Ashley Reese]

Oh, no.

[Kelsey McKinney]

She does this. And a lot of people with their official warrior cat names are commenting, and they're like, this is so good. Like, we love it. Victoria's like, hell, yeah. She keeps writing. She's writing every day for, like, three weeks. She's so committed. Howling star keeps, like, sliding into her messages with each of these stories. And soon, Victoria learns that this girl's name is Kristen.

[Ashley Reese]

Okay, so what did Kristen. What is Kristen saying?

[Kelsey McKinney]

Kristen's whole deal is that she's, like, a senior in college. And to Victoria, she's, like, unbelievably cool. And Kristen is, like, generally, like, I'm sorry to bring our trauma as writers into this, but Kristen is, like, queen of feedback, right? Like, she's always like, I have a few notes. Right?

[Ashley Reese]

Like, oh, my God. No, I. Anyone who's done fanfiction knows about this kind of reviewer who is just like, maybe they mean well, but every single thing they have to say is like, here's what you could have done better. Here's how I would have liked it more. I hate people like that.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yes. Kristen sliding in. Like, great start here. Like, I see what you're trying to do, right? Like, do you want to hop on the phone? Right? Like, this whole thing. And, like, Victoria, because she's 18, is like, oh, my God. This girl cares about me so much. Like, she wants me to get better.

[Ashley Reese]

Oh, my God.

[Kelsey McKinney]

So she's like, I'm gonna try my absolute best. And she's also, like, being a little politically savvy here because she's like, you know, Kristen is on the council.

[Ashley Reese]

Yeah. She can, like, elevate her.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Kristen controls when I get my warrior cat name, and I want my warrior cat name so badly. The best edit that Kristen gives her is that Kristen is like, the thing is, baby paw doesn't have a lot of her personality. Like, baby paw needs to have a more defining trait. And Victoria's like, that's a great note. She's like, my idea is baby paw is baby. Like, baby paw is dumb like a baby. That's her character trait. And so, like, her warrior cat, Baby paw, is always up to, like, so many antics. Like, she's so dumb. She makes the dumbest errors. Like, that's her whole thing.

[Ashley Reese]

Oh, my God.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And the Other writers love this because they're like, this is a really clear character who I can use to advance plot in my stories. So they're like, can we use Baby Paw in our stories? And she's like, yes. And Baby Paw is like, the dumbest warrior catalyze.

[Ashley Reese]

Part of me is like, okay, that is a distinct personality. Part of me is almost like, oh, my God. Stand up, Baby Paw. Like, have self respect, Baby Pa formerly known as Baby Moon. Like, wow.

[Kelsey McKinney]

One day she gets a message from Kristen, and Kristen is like, the council really likes you. Like, we really like your work. She's like, I was wondering if we could add you to the inner circle.

[Ashley Reese]

What? So soon?

[Kelsey McKinney]

And Victoria is like, it's only been, like, six weeks. And she's also disappointed because she really wanted her warrior cat to be, like, promoted. Right? So she's like, I don't want to be added to the inner circle. I want to be Baby Moon again. So she's like, this is fine. Sure, whatever. Add me to the inner circle. And she's like, but, like, what is it? Like, what's going on in the inner circle? And basically what the inner circle is is it's like a group chat, of course. And Kristen is like, oh. Like, the inner circle is like, the reigning authority on warrior cat fanfic. And, like, the inner circle controls who gets their warrior cat name and when. And the inner council, like, gives feedback on ongoing plots. And, like, sometimes we co write stories together.

[Ashley Reese]

Oh, my God.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Victoria is like, I'm so thrilled to be in the inner circle. Thank you so much for having me. She's welcomed by everyone. Everyone's so happy to have her, but immediately she's, like, laser focused on one person, and that's because this person is cute and his name is Jordan.

[Ashley Reese]

Oh, a guy. Okay.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Is it easy for you to get a crush?

[Ashley Reese]

Hmm. Okay. So I think that fandom spaces have so largely been, like, women and women dominated. And I feel like I get surprised whenever I see a man in these spaces. And so for me, I wasn't crushing on nobody because I'm straight.

[Kelsey McKinney]

But you, like, hit on something, though, that I think is important here, which is that most fan fiction communities are, like, all women.

[Ashley Reese]

Yes.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Largely women and largely women. And this community is largely women. And Jordan.

[Ashley Reese]

Straight, not gay.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Like Jordan straight? Yeah, yeah, he's straight. And, like, that means that Jordan is, like, catnip to this community. They're like, he writes poetry. He writes fan fiction. He listens to soft boy music. Like, he's always asking people who, how they really are.

[Ashley Reese]

Oh, my God. But now that I'm like, not like 18, I'm immediately like, red flag. I'm like, I'm like, oh, okay.

[Kelsey McKinney]

So they're like, his Tumblr is really cool, right?

[Ashley Reese]

Like, it's like, red flag, red flag, red flag.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Victoria is like a lonely 18 year old on the cusp of going to college, right? Like, she is involved in her childhood fandom. This is like too easy. Jordan comes to her a couple weeks later and it's like, can I put baby paw in one of my stories?

[Ashley Reese]

Stop. Oh, my God. That's like asking someone out.

[Kelsey McKinney]

She's like, oh, my God, this is so romantic. Like, yes, you can. His cat is named Moth Nose.

[Ashley Reese]

Moth Nose.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Moth nose.

[Ashley Reese]

So nose as a suffix is like.

[Kelsey McKinney]

No, he has another suffix, like river or something. The first name is.

[Ashley Reese]

Moth knows.

[Kelsey McKinney]

That's one word.

[Ashley Reese]

Oh, my God. Okay, okay. Moth knows.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah. So for him to put baby paw in his story, obviously they have to chat about it. They have to chat about it all the time. They're chatting constantly about how baby paw might respond about, like, what baby paw might like.

[Ashley Reese]

Oh, my God, yes. These scenarios.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Suddenly they're chatting about everything, right? Like, he's telling her the things he dislikes about his university, right? She's like, telling him about her fears, right? Chat, chat, chat, chat, chat, chat, chat.

[Ashley Reese]

And also, I mean, just pointing out, like, these kind of like fandom friendships and interactions, they get pretty intimate pretty quickly. Like. Yeah, it kind of in a way that even my, like, IRL friends, like, there are things that, like, I will so much sooner tell to a girl who I met three weeks ago through fan fiction that I would tell, then I would tell to someone who's like, one of my nearest dearest friends who I've known for like 10 years, you.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Know, like, your nearest dearest friends are listening to this. Getting pitchforks to go to your house. Like, what the are you telling me?

[Ashley Reese]

I'm so sorry, guys. There's some shit that you just do not know.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yes. So the intimacy is high. And Jordan one day is like, oh, my God, should we co write a story?

[Ashley Reese]

Oh, my God. That's like asking someone to have sex.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah. Like, is this a date? Like, does this count as a date?

[Ashley Reese]

Oh, my God.

[Kelsey McKinney]

I like how verbally you're like, yes, that's a date.

[Ashley Reese]

Yeah. Like, no, that is like, that's. That's intimate.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Do you try and make your cats kiss in the story that you're co writing?

[Ashley Reese]

How do cats even kiss? I'm Getting upset. Like, I really hate animal stories. Like, I really. I am not charmed by them at all. I'm just like, I cannot imagine, like, no offense to my own cat, but.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Like, I don't want to kiss the cat.

[Ashley Reese]

I don't want to think about cats making out. But, yeah, I guess if I was trying to, like, impress this, like, Tumblr soft boy who, like, wanted to have our, like, like, cats in a store together, yeah, they're gonna fucking make out.

[Kelsey McKinney]

So the thing is, Victoria's like, I don't think I can make them make out because, like, my cat, Baby Paw, is still an apprentice. So that's, like, an age gap discourse in terms of experience as a cat that, like, I don't want to get myself involved in.

[Ashley Reese]

Oh, my God. She didn't want to get canceled.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah. So she asks Jordan, and Jordan's like, oh, yeah, that makes, like, sense to me. That's like. He's like, we can still make it very cute. Like, we can still make them, like, kind of falling for each other, and the forbiddenness will, like, make it better.

[Ashley Reese]

Oh, my God.

[Kelsey McKinney]

She finishes the draft, and he, like, sends her edits back, and he's like, I had an idea. What if they didn't kiss, but they had a signal to show each other that they loved each other that wasn't kissing.

[Ashley Reese]

Okay. I would have, like, folded if I was her. If, like, a cute guy was like, I want our characters to show that they love each other without showing it, you know? Like, I'd be like, oh, we're getting married now. Okay.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Victoria's like, oh, my God, Is he proposing? Like, yeah, no, I would be like.

[Ashley Reese]

We are married now. Just so you know.

[Kelsey McKinney]

She's like, well, what did you have in mind? And he's like, well, what if baby PA and Moth knows would, like, tell each other they loved each other by, like, using their little paws. You know how, like, a cat will need, like, a blanket?

[Ashley Reese]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Like, that.

[Ashley Reese]

Like, they would need, like, each other or near each other or.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And Victoria's like, I think you're a genius, and I think that's a great idea.

[Ashley Reese]

Oh, my God.

[Kelsey McKinney]

They publish this story, and people love it. They love that there's no kissing. They love the kneading. The kneading.

[Ashley Reese]

That's sexual tension.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Oh, my God. Yes. And then kneading, like, makes its way into other stories.

[Ashley Reese]

Wow.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Because people are, like, genius. Victoria moves into her dorm in August. She's still obsessed with warrior cats, but, like, she's also obsessed with Jordan. She's going to parties, she's meeting people, and then late at night, she's like logging on to, like, do her little work. Cats, right?

[Ashley Reese]

Oh, yeah. I know. I know that balance. I know that song and dance.

[Kelsey McKinney]

It's beautiful to have a second shift.

[Ashley Reese]

Yes. No, it was literally me in college. It's just like going out and then coming home to talk about a certain fandom.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah. It is the early 2000 and tens. Do you change your Facebook status to it's complicated? If you're in love with a man on Warrior cats forum who still calls.

[Ashley Reese]

You baby bop yo at that point, if we're needing. If we're in the needing stage already for a minute, I don't know if it's complicated. There's something there. There's something there, man.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah. Victoria is like, also delusional. So she's like, yeah, I love him. She sets her Facebook status to it's complicated. She really does. Course of the year. They're like chatting, chatting, chatting.

[Ashley Reese]

Right.

[Kelsey McKinney]

She starts like, submitting some stories to Kristen because she's like, I just want your feedback, like, before these publish.

[Ashley Reese]

Yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And Kristen keeps sending these back and being like, ma'am, this is smut. Like, this is not like, you gotta trim this girl. Like, this is not what this community is about.

[Ashley Reese]

Ew. But like, what does that mean? What is warrior? Did you find out in your research? Did you find out what that looks like?

[Kelsey McKinney]

I don't want to talk about it.

[Ashley Reese]

Oh, my God, no.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And Kristen is also like, also, you're still an apprentice. Like, you're still baby paw. Yeah. Kind of know your place. And Victoria is like, well, when am I going to be promoted? And Kristen is like, don't worry. Like, I'm going to get you promoted at the six when you hit your six month mark, which is like the earliest I can get you promoted.

[Ashley Reese]

It.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And Victoria's like, okay. In November, Kristen comes back and is like, we did it. We upgraded you. You are being promoted.

[Ashley Reese]

Oh, my God. The council spoke.

[Kelsey McKinney]

The council has ruled that she can become baby moon again.

[Ashley Reese]

Wow. That's a big promotion.

[Kelsey McKinney]

I know. And Victoria is honored because she's like, I'm so happy that you remembered that baby moon was the name that I wanted.

[Ashley Reese]

Okay, but wait, but then, like, is. Is the guy's cat on her level now?

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yes. Oh, now they're on the same level.

[Ashley Reese]

Oh.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Oh, indeed. Jordan sends her a mixed CD to celebrate.

[Ashley Reese]

Stop it.

[Kelsey McKinney]

She's like, now I'm not an apprentice. Now there's no more age gap. She's like, I want to write. I want to co write a horny story.

[Ashley Reese]

No, not the horny cat.

[Kelsey McKinney]

So she's talking to Jordan over DM one day and she's like, I have something to ask you. And he's like, I have something to ask you too.

[E]

Despite wearing a hat every single day all summer long, I do have the skin of a Victorian ghost. Which means that if the sun even finds one little spot of skin that hasn't had sunscreen applied in the last like one hour, it destroys it.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And so, you know, after a summer trying to avoid the sun, I still.

[E]

Ended up with a little tiny dark spot on my cheek, which is so annoying. But, you know, skin changes over time and it can be so overwhelming to figure out the right products for your skin. Which is why we're excited to partner with Apostrophe, the sponsor of this episode.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Apostrophe goal is to help you feel.

[E]

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[Kelsey McKinney]

By yourself with just like drugstore products.

[E]

So that's why I love working with Apostrophe, because, you know, you have access to an expert derm team and they make you a tailored treatment plan and then all of it just shows up.

[Kelsey McKinney]

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[E]

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[Kelsey McKinney]

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[Ashley Reese]

Oh, my God, I want him to go first.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Victoria wants Shorty to go first. She's like, okay, you go first. And he's like, okay, but it's, like, a little embarrassing. And Victoria's like, oh, my God. No, it's not. I'm sure it's not embarrassing. Her heart is like, thump, thump, thump, thump, thump, thump, thump, Right? And Jordan's like, okay, so it's, like, kind of personal. And Victoria's like, yes. Like, okay, what is it?

[Ashley Reese]

Like, let's go.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Jordan's like, okay, there's, like, some gossip going around. And Victoria's like, what? Her heart is sinking, right? She's like, what gossip? And Jordan's like, there's gossip that someone is leaving the Warrior Cats community and a position is opening on the council.

[Ashley Reese]

Wow.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And Victoria's like, okay, I don't really understand what this has to do with us. Like, what? She's like, that's not a question. And Jordan's like, well, I wanted to ask if you would be willing to, like, help me get elected for that seat. And Victoria's like, that Is not the question I wanted him to ask.

[Ashley Reese]

I want to be like, do you want to go to pound town?

[Kelsey McKinney]

Fan fiction, Take our cats into countdown and create smut. Right.

[Ashley Reese]

You're talking about politics. I'm talking about fucking.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah. Yes. Do you see another problem here?

[Ashley Reese]

Hmm. Let me see.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Do you remember the rules? Oh.

[Ashley Reese]

There's no relationships allowed between.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Oh. Members of the council cannot date members of the community.

[Ashley Reese]

Oh, my God. But what about. Is she not in the council yet? I thought she was in the council.

[Kelsey McKinney]

She's in the inner circle.

[Ashley Reese]

Oh, but she's not on the council.

[Kelsey McKinney]

She's not on the council.

[Ashley Reese]

Wow.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Okay, so to promote Jordan into the council is to promote your crush yet again.

[Ashley Reese]

Oh, my God.

[Kelsey McKinney]

To a forbidden place.

[Ashley Reese]

No. So she can't. So she can't do it, or she wouldn't want to.

[Kelsey McKinney]

What do you think?

[Ashley Reese]

I mean, do let the ones you love go, dad. It's like, if you love them, let them go.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Like, it is kind of like that.

[Ashley Reese]

But if it was me, I would try to convince him not to do it just so that we could have a relationship. I'd be, like, a little bit conniving.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Oh, Victoria is not conniving. Victoria is like. Like, I'm gonna tell him that I'll help him, and then I'll decide later what I'm gonna do. So she's like, oh, my God. Great. Love that for you. Totally. No problem. Because her feelings are also, like, hurt. Right. Because she thought that they were talking about something else that they were not talking about, which is being in love.

[Ashley Reese]

Right.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Jordan at this point is like, what was your question for me?

[Ashley Reese]

He's like, he's. He's just down to business.

[Kelsey McKinney]

She's like, when will death come?

[Ashley Reese]

Right? Like this. Can our cats fucking?

[Kelsey McKinney]

She's like, I just wanted to see if you wanted to co write a new story. And he's like, oh, my God. Yeah, I'd love to do that. But she's like, I can't tell him it's about fucking anymore. I feel weird.

[Ashley Reese]

Oh, no.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Couple days pass, Kristen reaches out and is like, I'm just doing a, like, straw poll. Do you know who you're gonna vote for? Do you tell her you're gonna vote for Jordan?

[Ashley Reese]

Maybe. Only if I don't think that Kristen suspects something is going on between us.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yes. So Victoria is like, I don't think Kristen has any suspicions. She's like, I've been thinking about voting Jordan. And Kristen's like, oh, that's really interesting. That's like A really good idea. Like, he'd be great. Good instincts. And Victoria's like, thank you so much. She's like, I love Kristen's approval almost as much as I love Jordan.

[Ashley Reese]

Right.

[Kelsey McKinney]

So Victoria votes for him, and of course he wins.

[Ashley Reese]

Oh, my God.

[Kelsey McKinney]

So now their love is yet again a beloved plot of warrior cats in that it is forbidden.

[Ashley Reese]

Oh, my God. This is just it. She. She can't win. When will baby Moon win?

[Kelsey McKinney]

Win? Is it baby Moon's turn to be happy?

[Ashley Reese]

Right?

[Kelsey McKinney]

Exactly. They're still chatting every single day, telling each other what they eat for dinner, what the weather's like, how their classes are.

[Ashley Reese]

This is intimate.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yes. In the spring, the inner circle decides that they should all meet up irl. And they're calling this jokingly kitty.

[Ashley Reese]

I mean, look, I can't knock down meaning fanfiction runs IRL because I've done it several times. Many times. I was literally at a wedding recently of a friend who I know primarily. People were like, oh, how'd you guys know each other? I say live journal. We were in a fucking role playing game in 2010.

[Kelsey McKinney]

She admitted.

[Ashley Reese]

Yeah, exactly. So I'm not against it, the name Chop, but everything else, the concept. Yeah, sure, Hank. I love meeting fandom friends in person.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah. And it's like for Victoria, she's like, it's the summer between my freshman and sophomore year. Like, famously a bad summer because you've, like, tasted the freedom of college and then been forced to. And she's like, I have some work study money. Like, it's totally worth it to buy a ticket for this 10 hour greyhound to get to where Kristen lives.

[Ashley Reese]

Okay. See, I think like a long travel, that's something that I feel like I have to work up to. But hey, I still, I guess I. Look, you have the opportunity, okay, why not take the 10 hour greyhound?

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah. Victoria's also like, finally, I'll meet Jordan in person.

[Ashley Reese]

Oh, my God.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Like, this is huge for me. The time comes, she boards the bus, she gets. They're going to where Kristen lives. And this is because, like, Kristen is a senior in college.

[Ashley Reese]

Okay.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And so she has, like, off campus housing.

[Ashley Reese]

Okay.

[Kelsey McKinney]

So they're going to her city so they can stay at her place. Face.

[Ashley Reese]

Wow. Okay.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Victoria is like so nervous. She's like, what if they don't think I'm cute irl? What if they don't like me? Like, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. They meet at a board game cafe.

[Ashley Reese]

Okay, Chop, but keep on going.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Keep going. Jordan stands up to hug her, to greet her and she's like, oh, my God, he's taller than I thought.

[Ashley Reese]

Because they know what each other looks like at this point, I'm guessing.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But he's taller. You don't even see him in person.

[Ashley Reese]

Yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And she's like, he's so cute. And then he, like. He doesn't sit next to her, but he, like, looks at her a lot.

[Ashley Reese]

Oh, no.

[Kelsey McKinney]

What do you think about this?

[Ashley Reese]

Oh, he has. He definitely has a crush on her. Or at least just wants to. Let me. Let me not. There's something going on.

[Kelsey McKinney]

After the games, they all go back to Kristen's house. The girls are all staying there. Obviously, Jordan is, like, gonna sleep somewhere else. Cause he's, like, the only boy.

[Ashley Reese]

I was about to say, like, where is he gonna go?

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah, he's, like, hanging out late. He's, like, sitting next to her. He keeps, like, telling her how excited he is to see her, but he's also telling everyone else that he's really excited to see them.

[Ashley Reese]

Oh.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And so she's like. And, like, when people are talking, it's, like, clear that people know things about him that she doesn't know.

[Ashley Reese]

Oh.

[Kelsey McKinney]

So she's like, excuse me.

[Ashley Reese]

Oh.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And then he's like, do you want a seltzer? I'm gonna go get a seltzer out of the fridge. And Victoria's like, yeah, of course I want a seltzer. And then she watches him walk to the kitchen. She's like, he's so cute. He's so tall. And then she watches as he's, like, passing Kristen, who's getting more snacks that he, like, uses his little hands like they're paws. And he, like, kneads her shoulder on the way by.

[Ashley Reese]

Oh, not needing. No. Oh, no. He hasn't needed anyone else that day, has he?

[Kelsey McKinney]

Nuh. No, he has not.

[Ashley Reese]

Yo. No. I'd be heartbroken.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Victoria is watching all night, right? Like, now she's on high alert. She's paying close attention, and she notices that, like, he's always touching Kristen when he passes. And, like, he knows where things in Kristen's apartment are.

[Ashley Reese]

No. Okay, it's a wrap. It's a wrap.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And she's like, I have never been filled with more envy and more anger in my entire life. She's like, kristen has. Has everything I want. She has star status. She's an editor. She's dating Jordan. Like, this is terrible.

[Ashley Reese]

Oh, my God.

[Kelsey McKinney]

You have also. You're. Victoria. You have also noticed that he's, like, flirty with everyone. Do you tell the Others that he.

[Ashley Reese]

And Kristen are together. Oh, I would definitely ask, like, hey, do you know if anyone, like, I would ask, I would act like I don't care at all. I'd be like, hey, is there something going on between Jordan and Kristen? I'd act like I did not care while I was, like, dying inside, like, wanting to cry because you just drove. Like, imagine being in a greyhound for 10 hours thinking that you're going to have some intimate one on one time with, like, the guy that you've been, like, fantasizing about doing, like, kitty smut with for like a year, Months. Yeah, yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

No, Victoria is like, here I go, right? I'm young, I'm petty. I'm about to start asking some fucking questions. So she's like, does anybody know, like, if Jordan has a girlfriend? Like, are he and Kristen together? And everyone's like, girl, we don't know what you're talking about. Like, I don't think so. Doesn't seem like Jordan has a girlfriend. Like, he talks to everyone all the time. And she's like, I don't know. I, like, saw something in the kitchen. I saw him, like, knead her shoulder.

[Ashley Reese]

And they're both on the High Council in that. Wait, are they allowed to be together if they're both in the High Council?

[Kelsey McKinney]

Okay, really good question. Theoretically, yes. But he wasn't on the High Council until she elected him there. Oh, there's also a problem here, which is that the other girls in this group have conflated Victoria with baby paw. And so they're like, baby paw?

[Ashley Reese]

I think she's dumb.

[Kelsey McKinney]

You're so dumb.

[Ashley Reese]

Oh, my God.

[Kelsey McKinney]

No, they're like, we love you so much, but, like, it's very clear from your stories that you're, like, in love with Jordan. And, like, everyone knows that.

[Ashley Reese]

Oh, my God, they clocked her.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And they're like, we get it, you're jealous. But, like, you don't need to, like, project things onto Kristen.

[Ashley Reese]

Stop.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And she's like, oh, my God, I'm not projecting. Like, I'm not. I swear to you. I, like, saw these things and they're all like, okay, like, we love you, but you gotta calm down.

[Ashley Reese]

They're gaslighting her.

[Kelsey McKinney]

You're now betrayed by your crush and your idol. Both of them. What do you do after this, like, weekend is over?

[Ashley Reese]

I don't know. I feel like that maybe the stories might change a little bit. I don't know if I wanna collab as much. I don't know unless I know the truth.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah. Victoria Is like, you know, she gets home, she's disillusioned by the warrior cats community. She's like, people are gaslighting me, I'm being lied to. She's like, stewing and she decides, you know, if all of these girls think that I'm in love with Jordan because of my stories, then that means that, like, they also think that they're telling on themselves in their stories. So I'm gonna go back and, like, read all these stories and see what I can figure out. Ooh. So she's reading everyone's stories, like, back into the past before she got there. And she's realizing that, like, at different times, Moth knows has been in everyone's stories.

[Ashley Reese]

Oh, my God. He's like the fandom bicycle. Oh, no.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And all of the stories, like, revolve around his character.

[Ashley Reese]

They are getting played. These girls are getting played by what? Moth knows.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Moth knows.

[Ashley Reese]

Oh, my God. Oh, no. Maybe they were sitting. Maybe they were acting like that because they've been played in the past.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Okay, so this is what Victoria thinks. And she's like DMing them. And she's like, okay, girlies, are we all acting like this because we've all been played? Like, is this the John Tucker must die scenario? Like, what is going on? And all the girls are like, oh, no, I don't really, like, feel like I've been played. It's just like, that's kind of how, like, the stories, like, got edited when he helped us edit them.

[Ashley Reese]

Come on. No.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And Victoria's like, okay, but she's also like, huh? If Jordan is dating Kristen, and Kristen is famously an editor, is Kristen not just editing everyone's store, like, providing notes to make everyone's character be in love with Jordan? She's like, oh, my God, have I been, like, edited into this crush?

[Ashley Reese]

Oh, my God, is Kristen like the puppet master?

[Kelsey McKinney]

She's like, is Kristen the puppet master? She's like, oh, my God. And she starts trying to, like, remember what it is she liked about Jordan, right? She's like, what is it that I liked? And she's like, oh, you know what I really liked? I really liked his poetry. And so she, like, goes to his Tumblr, she's like, reading his poems and she's like, like, these are so bad. Like, I was wearing the, like, rose colored glasses of Crush, and these are like, they do not make any sense.

[Ashley Reese]

Oh, my gosh. Didn't like his soft boy poems after all.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Didn't like his soft boy poems after all. And also she's like, these Are just, like, not good. Like, he's not a good writer. She's like, so how is it that he was, like, co writing stories with me, right?

[Ashley Reese]

Was it Kristen all along?

[Kelsey McKinney]

It was fucking Kristen all along.

[Ashley Reese]

Wait, so they were in cahoots?

[Kelsey McKinney]

They were in cahoots.

[Ashley Reese]

Stop.

[Kelsey McKinney]

You have now been betrayed. Like, emphatically betrayed on every level. On every level.

[Ashley Reese]

Oh, my God.

[Kelsey McKinney]

What do you do?

[Ashley Reese]

This is when I would probably talk to someone who I've befriended in that fandom was not none of those people, and would start talking some shit and being, like, asking them what I should do, because I don't think the people in the council are to be trusted. They didn't believe her before. They didn't know when they were being manipulated. They thought that this is just, oh, baby Moon's stupid. Like, no, Baby Moon is smart. Actually, you guys are stupid. Like, yeah, no, I wouldn't trust any of them. I. She's been betrayed left, right and center. No, I think I would be so disillusioned that I would like dick. Unless I just really loved warrior cats that much.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Victoria is like, fuck the council. Fuck Jordan. Fuck Kristen. Like, I'm going out in a blaze of glory. Like, she's like, I am gonna write a fanfiction to get me through this.

[Ashley Reese]

That's what I'm talking about.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And she writes a fanfiction where baby Moon has a crush, and the crush is a new warrior cat named, like, you know, something stupid Pa. And something stupid PA is a poet, and she gives something stupid paw. In this. In this story, all of Jordan's bad.

[Ashley Reese]

Poetry, like, the actual, like, verbatim.

[Kelsey McKinney]

The actual verbatim poems that he has, like, sent her.

[Ashley Reese]

Oh, my God.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And she's like, this is gonna get him, right? Like, she's, like, written this, like, fuck boy warrior cat character.

[Ashley Reese]

Oh, my God.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Publishes this at a time when, like, she knows Kristen is busy and so, like, it can be up for a while without anyone commenting on it.

[Ashley Reese]

Oh, my God.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Everyone in the warrior cats community is like, baby Moon, this is such a good story. For real. Like, the fuckboy character is great. His poems are so bad. Like, you're such a good writer. How did you even write this bad of poems? Like, you're a genius.

[Ashley Reese]

Oh, my God. Wait, I love that for her, but I feel like she's gonna suffer the consequences.

[Kelsey McKinney]

It is, like, the most popular thing she's ever written, and she's getting, like, a ton of credit for putting herself at the head of this terrible poet. And so now she's like, now is the time to appear as God did to Saul and be like, the scales must fall from your eyes. Right? Like, the bad poet is Jordan. He can't write.

[Ashley Reese]

These are his poems and not his stories.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And not his stories. And the scales fall from these. From the warrior cat girl's eyes. And they're all like, oh, my God. And they're also catching on to something that you caught onto, which is like, were they dating before the council?

[Ashley Reese]

Listen, at this point, the warrior cat.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Girls, not including Kristen, have a quorum. And together as a quorum, they decide that they're going to initiate an investigation. And the way they're going to do this is they're going to call in a third party person to investigate this. And the person they call, oh, my.

[Ashley Reese]

God, like, oh, like a Robert Moon.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Literally, they're like. They're like, who is an investigator in the Twilight community? They're. We're going to bring them over here and they're going to figure this out.

[Ashley Reese]

Not. Not getting someone from Twilight community. Stop it.

[Kelsey McKinney]

They bring someone from Twilight over. The Twilight girl is, like, interviewing everyone. She's trying to figure shit out, but she's also like, why is your community, like, for virgins? Like, why can't people date?

[Ashley Reese]

That's kind of. That. That is kind of crazy.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah. And all the were cat girls are like, oh, my God. That's a great point.

[Ashley Reese]

Like, why can't people date?

[Kelsey McKinney]

Like, this doesn't make any sense.

[Ashley Reese]

Not the Twilight girl being like, y'all are prudes.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yes. The Twilight girl's like, come on, man. Like, this is fine, actually.

[Ashley Reese]

Wow.

[Kelsey McKinney]

The Twilight girl does eventually find out and reveal that Kristen was dating Jordan before he was on the council.

[Ashley Reese]

Oh, my God.

[Kelsey McKinney]

So that's strike one. But what the Twilight girl also finds out is that Kristen has been preferential editing everyone's stories to make Jordan look good.

[Ashley Reese]

Yo, what kind of relationship is this?

[Kelsey McKinney]

I don't know.

[Ashley Reese]

I thought the warrior cats girlies were doing it like this. The drama, the intrigue.

[Kelsey McKinney]

We are almost at the very end. Whose side are you on? How do you feel? Do you think there's a moral here?

[Ashley Reese]

I respect our girl Victoria for being like, if I'm gonna go, wow, I'm going out in a blaze of glory and having everyone end up on her side.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yes.

[Ashley Reese]

I love that. But I also worry that she's gonna. I'm worried that she's gonna get, like, blowback from this. Is she gonna get kicked out? Like, I don't know. I'm worried about Our girl.

[Kelsey McKinney]

I do have some final updates for you, which is that Kristen and Jordan co wrote a story that sent both of their cats to the land of no stars.

[Ashley Reese]

Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. They sent themselves.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Correct.

[Ashley Reese]

What kind of self flagellation is this? So they killed themselves in the story?

[Ginger Hollander]

Yes.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And sent themselves to cat hell.

[Ashley Reese]

No. Wait. This is so funny.

[Kelsey McKinney]

It's so funny.

[Ashley Reese]

Oh, my God. I want them to. I hope they're married.

[Kelsey McKinney]

I hope so too. I don't know what happened to them. No one gave me an update on that, which is upsetting.

[Ashley Reese]

Oh, my God.

[Kelsey McKinney]

After they left, everyone was like, the council is dumb. The rules are dumb. We're not doing that anymore. We're just gonna go back to writing regular fanfiction like regular people.

[Ashley Reese]

Hell yeah. As it should be.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Which meant Victoria could promote herself to star. So she was thrilled about that.

[Ashley Reese]

Oh, my God.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And after she graduated college, she was like, okay, I don't have time for this anymore. Like, I'm not doing this anymore. But, like, five years after she graduated from college, like, kind of recently, she was at a party and she was, like, talking to someone about the early Internet, and this person was like, oh, my God. I used to be in this fanfiction community that had this whole drama because two of the moderators were dating. But then this girl wrote an iconic story about how the head moderator's boyfriend was a terrible poet, and then he got run out of the community. And the Twilight fanfiction people talked about it for years.

[Ashley Reese]

Oh, my God. So it must have been lore.

[Kelsey McKinney]

You admit to this random stranger that it was you.

[Ashley Reese]

Yes, immediately. I immediately say that that was me. But that's. But that's me. Like, that's. That's. And they're not a civilian because they know some shit. I would be like, that was me.

[Kelsey McKinney]

If you pull off a heist, you should get credit for it. So Victoria is like, yeah, it was me. Me.

[Ashley Reese]

Oh, my God. That is the perfect, perfect ending.

[Kelsey McKinney]

It's so beautiful.

[Ashley Reese]

No notes.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Like, wow, great. Do you have any final thoughts or feelings?

[Ashley Reese]

Well, I mean, go, Victoria. This was so true that, like, you really do put a bit of yourself into the stories you write. And this worked to her advantage to get some revenge. And I appreciate that. But you know what? She lucked out. It has a happy ending. It could so easily. There are so many of these girls who try to go on a power trip when they have any amount of power in these little communities. Addiction, role playing. This was a great, great love this ending for her.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Ashley thank you so much for coming on the podcast. It was a delight to have you.

[Ashley Reese]

Thank you for having me and this was the perfect story for me.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Thank you oh my God of.

[Ginger Hollander]

Thank you for listening to Normal Gossip. If you have a gossip story to share with us, email us at normal gossip defector.com or you can leave us a voicemail at 2679 GOSSIP if you love this podcast and want to support us, become a friend or a friend of a [e-mail] you can follow the show on Instagram and tick tock at Normal Gossip. You can follow Kelsey on all social media at McKinney Kelsey this podcast was produced by Alex Soojong, Laughlin, Ozzy Linus Goodman and J. Tolviera. Justin Ellis is Defector's Projects editor. Jasper Wang and Sean Kuhn are Defectors business guys. Alex Jong Laughlin is Defector's supervising producer. Tom Le is our Editor in Chief. Abigail Siegel is our Internet. Dan McQuaid runs our merch store which you can find at normalgossip store. Tara Jacoby designed our show. Art thank you to Rachel Hampton, Brandi Jensen, Sabrina Imbler, Dave McKenna, Chris Thompson, Heather Chen, Ray Ratto, David Roth, Catherine Shue, Jasper Wang, Israel Daramola and Patrick Redford for your help on this season. Thanks to the rest of the Defector staff. Defector Media is a collectively owned subscriber based media company. Normal Gossip is a proud member of Radiotopia. Normal Gossip is hosted by Kelsey McKinney. I'm Ginger Hollander and remember you did not hear this from me.

[Ashley Reese]

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