Holiday Bonus: Caked Up Spirit of Christmas

Summary

Normal Gossip Podcast Episode Summary

Episode Title: Holiday Bonus: Caked Up Spirit of Christmas
Release Date: December 18, 2024
Hosts: Kelsey McKinney and Nate DiMeo
Producer: Alex Sujong Laughlin
Show Art: Tara Jacoby
Podcast Network: Radiotopia

---

Introduction to the Episode

In this special holiday bonus episode of Normal Gossip, hosts Kelsey McKinney and Nate DiMeo delve into an in-depth discussion of the 2015 Lifetime original movie, The Spirit of Christmas. This episode provides a comprehensive breakdown of the film's plot, characters, thematic elements, and overall execution, infused with the hosts' signature humor and candid opinions.

---

Overview of The Spirit of Christmas

Kelsey and Nate begin by setting the stage for their analysis of The Spirit of Christmas, a film that intertwines supernatural elements with romantic comedy. They express their enthusiasm for the movie, highlighting its unique blend of horror tropes and heartfelt romance.

Kelsey McKinney:
"[...] I have been crowned America's next top Gossip Queen. [...] I made Kelsey watch the 2015 Lifetime original movie The Spirit of Christmas, and we just gabbed about it for an hour."

Nate DiMeo:
"[...] We have a special little holiday treat. I hope that everyone did their homework. If you haven't done your homework, the homework was to watch The Spirit of Christmas."

---

Detailed Breakdown of the Movie

Plot Summary and Initial Impressions

The hosts provide a scene-by-scene recap of the movie, starting with the protagonist Kate, a driven lawyer tasked with selling a haunted inn inherited from her late boss. Chaos ensues when Kate encounters Daniel, a hulking ghost from the 1920s, who is bound to the inn for twelve days each Christmas season.

Nate DiMeo:
"The main character, a giant man walking through the snow. [...] It's clear he's upset because there are no subtleties in this movie at all." [07:32]

Kelsey McKinney:
"The innkeeper asks her where she's staying while she figures out how to sell the inn, and Kate replies, 'It's an inn. I'm staying here.'" [12:55]

Character Analysis

Kate:
A no-nonsense lawyer whose primary goal is to sell the inn. Her skepticism about ghosts is put to the test when she meets Daniel.

Daniel:
A ghost from the 1920s who is bound to the inn. Unlike typical ghostly apparitions, Daniel is fully embodied, physically imposing, and exhibits traits of a rum runner from the Prohibition era.

Kelsey McKinney:
"I have been reading Another Country. [...] It feels like Rachel Baxter moments where I was just like, oh, fuck, it used to snow before Thanksgiving, but in the mythical land of 2015, New Hampshire, Vermont, wherever we are, it's snowing. It's snowing hard."

Nate DiMeo:
"Daniel prefers the term 'rum runner' over 'bootlegger' because, you know, being a rum runner is hot." [24:29]

Thematic Elements

Prohibition and Rum Running:
The film heavily references the Prohibition era, portraying Daniel as a rum runner whose criminal activities ultimately led to his demise.

Supernatural Boundaries and Property Lines:
A recurring theme is Daniel's inability to leave the property, symbolizing his entrapment in purgatory. The hosts question the logic behind supernatural entities adhering to property lines.

Cultural Clashes:
Daniel's 1920s background creates a stark contrast with Kate's modern life, leading to humorous and frustrating interactions.

Kelsey McKinney:
"Imagine introducing Daniel to the real world of 2015. I want to see him go to the DMV, learn how to drive, try a Cheeto, try Sriracha. I have so many questions." [55:22]

---

Hosts' Opinions and Critiques

Humorous Observations:
Kelsey and Nate intersperse their analysis with witty remarks about the movie's inconsistencies and peculiar choices, such as the characters' hairstyles and outdated cultural references.

Kelsey McKinney:
"Her hairstyle with the side ponytail is like a 'fuck ass ponytail.' It's so bad. [...] It looks like a ponytail you give your friend to make her laugh. It's not real." [45:02]

Nate DiMeo:
"[...] Daniel doesn't smoke anything throughout the movie, which is unrealistic for a 1920s character. They even joked about offering him a vape in 2024." [35:15]

Plot Inconsistencies:
The hosts highlight several plot holes, such as Daniel's sudden ability to navigate modern society, the unclear motivations behind his continued haunting, and the unrealistic portrayal of supernatural rules.

Nate DiMeo:
"The laws of ghosts don't make any sense. Why does Daniel respect property lines? What happens if the house gets rezoned?" [54:56]

Kelsey McKinney:
"The movie feels like a delusion of a girl who just wants an excuse to date a hot guy. There's no way this relationship could actually work in reality." [57:36]

---

Humorous and Candid Commentary

Throughout the episode, Kelsey and Nate maintain a light-hearted and humorous tone, candidly sharing their frustrations and amusement with the movie's creative choices.

Kelsey McKinney:
"I would watch a sequel. I would watch at least a 30-minute epilogue of what happens when introducing Daniel to the real world of 2015. I want to see him take a 10 milligram edible." [56:22]

Nate DiMeo:
"One thing that really cracked me up is Daniel making cocktails with a giant bowie knife. He's like, 'I'm the best bartender that's ever lived.'" [27:28]

---

Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Kelsey and Nate wrap up their discussion by reflecting on the movie's blend of horror and romance, expressing interest in potential sequels that could explore the unresolved aspects of Daniel and Kate's relationship.

Kelsey McKinney:
"She walks outside into a beautiful snowy morning, and Daniel is gone. I miss him. I guess I'll come back next year to see if he comes back. Cause again, we don't know." [54:19]

Nate DiMeo:
"The most implausible part is the ending, where they're about to depart, but nothing really happens. It's like, you're telling me his senses are heightened, and he's about to go back to a waking nightmare for the rest of the year, and this man is not fucking." [60:21]

Overall Sentiment:
While critical of the movie's flaws and plot inconsistencies, the hosts acknowledge the film's endearing qualities and potential for future exploration, leaving listeners with a mix of amusement and curiosity about The Spirit of Christmas.

---

Notable Quotes

• Kelsey McKinney:
  "I want to see him go to the DMV. I want to see him learn how to drive. I want to see him try a Cheeto. I have so many questions." [55:22]

• Nate DiMeo:
  "Prohibition was so clear in its stakes. Here is an illicit substance that everyone wants that was previously legal." [34:18]

• Kelsey McKinney:
  "I'm single and dating right now. Dating someone actually takes so much fucking time, especially in a serious relationship." [42:28]

• Nate DiMeo:
  "Daniel made the best bartender that's ever lived." [27:28]

---

Final Remarks

Kelsey McKinney and Nate DiMeo's in-depth and entertaining analysis of The Spirit of Christmas offers listeners a humorous yet critical perspective on the film. Their playful banter and thoughtful critiques make this episode a delightful listen for fans of both the podcast and the movie.

Kelsey McKinney:
"I'm gonna fuck a ghost." [61:35]

Nate DiMeo:
"Keep Radiotopia from PRX." [63:09]

---

Note: This summary intentionally omits promotional segments, advertisements, and non-content discussions to focus solely on the podcast's substantive content.

Transcript

[Rachel Hampton]

This is it. We are running out of time to reach our goal of 2024 donors before the end of the year. The money that you donate, the funds you're able to share, are crucial to keeping our network running and ensuring that you get to listen to Normal gossip and all of the other fantastic shows on Radiotopia. I got to spend an evening recently with Nate DiMeo, the host of the Memory palace, which is a beautiful show that is also part of radiotop. He was in my city promoting his new book, also called the Memory palace, and he started talking about Radiotopia.

[Kelsey McKinney]

It was the 90s and the late 90s, and, you know, we were concerned and it turns out for good reason.

[Nate DiMeo]

To not sell me out. You know, I'm a member of Radiotopia in part because it's a collective of independent artists.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And like I learned in, you know.

[Nate DiMeo]

Like 1996, that that was the way to be and to find a place.

[Kelsey McKinney]

That does that has been amazing.

[Rachel Hampton]

I felt so proud to be a colleague of his and to be part of this collective that literally puts its money where its mouth is when it comes to supporting independent creators. I understand there is so much going on in the world right now. It's a tough time for independent media and podcasts. For people who want to have control over their intellectual property, over their business decisions, and over their creative projects, Radiotopia is a place where that's possible, but only with your help. This community of incredible creators wouldn't exist without listeners like you. Every dollar counts, and it really all adds up. So whatever you're able to give will make a huge difference. As a token of our gratitude, when you donate today, you'll also get access to the list of our favorite things curated by us and all of the producers in the network. I included something that I truly cannot live without. So head on over to Radiotopia fm. Donate to donate today. Thank you so much.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Hi, Rachel Hanson here. If you missed last week's episode of Normal Gossip, please go back and listen, because, spoiler alert, I have been crowned America's next top Gossip Queen. I wanted to say a very, very heartfelt thank you to all the listeners who have been so generous and so excited about the next phase of this show that we all love so much. We here at the Normal Gossip Team really appreciate it. So much so that we thought maybe y'all might like to have a little holiday bonus episode as a treat. Before we get to your present, though, I just wanted to say that I am so, so, so, so, so excited to start Working on season eight of Normal Gossip, which will come out this spring. But I need your help. We are looking for gossip. You can email [e-mail] or you can leave us a voicemail on our hotline at 2679 GOSSIP. Some gossip that I am dying to receive. Real estate gossip. Gossip that is secretly a romance novel service industry gossip and fandom gossip. But truly, anything you have that you think might be a fit, please send it over. If you have ever in your life thought maybe the story might work for Normal Gossip, send it, please. I will work with you on anonymization. And if it turns out to be too hard to anonymize, well, I still want to read it. Okay, now for your present. As many of y'all know, we put out an extra episode for our subscribers once a month. For December's episode, we tried something just a little bit different. I made kelsey watch the 2015 Lifetime original movie the Spirit of Christmas, and we just gabbed about it for an hour. As literally anyone in my life will tell you, I'm obsessed with this movie, and I think it might haunt Kelsey forever. What more could you want? Happy holidays. Hello. I'm so excited for this episode.

[Nate DiMeo]

I'm also really excited. We have a special little holiday treat. I hope that everyone did their homework. If you haven't done your homework, the homework was to watch the spirit. Spirit of Christmas.

[Kelsey McKinney]

So I guess, spoiler alert, it came out in 2015. You've had a decade.

[Nate DiMeo]

You've had a decade. But, you know, it is available on Amazon prime and Apple plus to rent, so it's not too late to watch this and then come back. Anyway, we're going to discuss this. Rachel, how the fuck did you find this movie? Why are we here?

[Kelsey McKinney]

This movie has been in my life for at least the past four years, minimum, possibly more than that. What I think happened is, do you remember back around, like, 2017, when BuzzFeed would do big list of, like, the craziest Christmas movies you should watch? I think this was on there, and I think that at the time, this movie was on Netflix. And so I was like, okay, cool, I don't have to buy anything. I'll watch this movie. Oh, and then I watched it with my roommate at the time, and I was immediate. And then every single year, I brought this movie up to other friends being like, have you seen the Spirit of Christmas? And they're obviously like, no, no. What the fuck is that? So it has become an annual tradition where every single year, I Force at least one of my friends to watch this movie with me.

[Nate DiMeo]

And this year it's me.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And this year it was you.

[Nate DiMeo]

One thing that I think is really important to note here is that this year, you have forced me to consume two pieces of culture. The first was James Baldwin's Giovanni's Room, which is a beautiful piece of art. Put it in the fucking, it slaps. The second is the spirit of Christmas.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And the thing is, both of those are annual traditions for me. I reread Giovanni's Room every single year around this time. And I also watch this movie every single year. So you're really hitting the Rachel Hampton.

[Nate DiMeo]

I'm in the Rachel Hampton cultural experience class.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Exactly. We're on Rachel time, as my friends call it.

[Nate DiMeo]

Wow. I love Rachel time. I'm so happy to be here. You told me to go into this movie not Googling it, no information. So the only thing I knew about it before putting it on was that you had, in an effort to try and help me understand if I had seen it or not, you had mentioned it's about a ghost. The spirit is a ghost. And I was like, okay, no, I haven't seen that. And two, I very much want to.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Beautiful. I really want to hear your thoughts, but I feel like we should do a brief recap of what happens in this movie.

[Nate DiMeo]

I don't think we're going to be able to be brief because I have a lot of notes.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Let's do the longest recap ever. This is a recap pod now. So we open. Let's start with that opening scene.

[Nate DiMeo]

Yes.

[Kelsey McKinney]

All right. So it's snowy. It's clearly, like, what, fucking Michigan or something? I don't know.

[Nate DiMeo]

I don't know.

[Kelsey McKinney]

We're in the woods, and we're also in the past.

[Nate DiMeo]

Our main. I would say he's the main character, even though he's like, the protagonist. Our main character. Giant man walking through the snow. He's, like, looking at a white inn where he can see, like, a woman embracing a man on the, like, little patio veranda situation. And he's, like, clearly upset by this because there are no subtleties in this movie at all.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Not at all.

[Nate DiMeo]

And then he pulls out a pocket watch out of his pocket that looks to have been made of, like, I don't know, plastic. Um, and he looks at that, and then he is hit in the back of the head. The screen goes dark, and we flash to the present day.

[Kelsey McKinney]

So tell me how you felt after that scene.

[Nate DiMeo]

The first thing I did was Google what year did this movie come out. Everything about it is insane. This man has the most, like, 2010s face I've ever seen in my life. Right.

[Kelsey McKinney]

He has iPhone face. And he also has that haircut that now is a little fashy, but in 2015 was the hipster haircut.

[Nate DiMeo]

Yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And the outfit that he's wearing, which is, like, this vest with a little shirt under it and boots, is giving Williamsburg hipster.

[Nate DiMeo]

Yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Like, so it's really confusing as to where we are in time, but I'm buckled the fudge in.

[Nate DiMeo]

It's also like, if you had put this man in a suit that was not made out of polyester, it would be, like, immediately apparent that he is not from the present. But because everything that everyone in the past is wearing looks like it came from Kohl's.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yes.

[Nate DiMeo]

It makes it feel like you have no idea where you are or what time it is. And that's fun.

[Kelsey McKinney]

It is. It really. It keeps you guessing. It keeps the girlies on their feet. And speaking of girlies, we have to talk about our main girly of this movie, whose name is Kate.

[Nate DiMeo]

Kate. Kate.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And Kate. Kate's a lawyer, and lawyering is her entire life.

[Nate DiMeo]

Yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

In the first scene where we're introduced to her.

[Nate DiMeo]

This scene rules. To be honest, I love this scene.

[Kelsey McKinney]

It's such a good scene. She's at dinner, she's talking to this guy, and he's like, you know, you're really great. You're so ambitious. But, like, I just feel like something's missing. And she's like, yeah, so true.

[Nate DiMeo]

So true.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Everyone I date knows nothing about me. My ex called me his ghost girl. Like, and then at the end, she's like, can I have your dessert? And she takes this creme brulee, and she's like, yeah, I didn't want to be here anyway. It's perfect.

[Nate DiMeo]

Okay, so the plot that we're given right after she breaks up with his boyfriend is deranged. The plot is like, she's a lawyer. Unclear what kind of law.

[Kelsey McKinney]

I think property law.

[Nate DiMeo]

Property law. Okay. And her boss is, like, a rich lady. Died. She had no heirs. She had this fancy inn, and we don't want to pay taxes on it, so it has to be sold by the end of the year, which is in three weeks.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yes.

[Nate DiMeo]

Already insane.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Also, is that how taxes work? Is that real?

[Nate DiMeo]

I don't think so. One, two. He's like, it goes to the trust. And the whole point of having a trust is to evade taxes.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah.

[Nate DiMeo]

So it's like, I don't really believe that this is, like, a premise that exists at all, but whatever, it works.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Works for me.

[Nate DiMeo]

So she drives her Jeep Cherokee out to this, like.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Like, she's not a girl who has a Jeep Cherokee.

[Nate DiMeo]

No, she's not.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah. So she drives her Jeep Cherokee out to this huge house, and it's beautiful. Also, this movie is supposed to take place, like, somewhere in snowy United States.

[Nate DiMeo]

I think it's supposed to be like, New Hampshire, Vermont. Because at some point he's like, you've got to come back to Boston. And it's clear that she, like, drove. Yeah, but whatever. One problem that I have is that. And you may also have this problem, is that I spent my whole childhood watching movies about Christmas in the Northeast, and I thought it was gonna fudgeing snow here.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah.

[Nate DiMeo]

And it's doesn't usually.

[Kelsey McKinney]

That's because of climate change.

[Nate DiMeo]

I know, and I want it same.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Speaking of James Baldwin, I have been reading Another Country.

[Nate DiMeo]

We've both been reading Another country, and.

[Kelsey McKinney]

There'S a scene that takes place, like, right around the. Like, near Thanksgiving. And the character is thinking about, oh, it's snowing again. Like, it's all on the ground.

[Nate DiMeo]

It's cold, it's cold.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And they're like, we're leading up to Thanksgiving. And I read that and just, like, had one of those Raven Baxter moments where I was just like, oh, fuck, it used to snow before Thanksgiving, but in the mythical land of 2015, New Hampshire, Vermont, wherever the fuck we are, somewhere, it's snowing. It's snowing hard.

[Nate DiMeo]

It's snowing. Like, feet of snow on the ground. Like, there's so much snow. Which is maybe why she has to have a Jeep Cherokee.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Unclear. Unclear. But she arrives at this inn, and the innkeeper, whose name is escaping me at the moment, but does end up becoming kind of a important tertiary character at some point. But the innkeeper is like, oh, I'm leaving. And asks her, where are you staying while you're figuring out where to sell the inn? And Kate's like, it's an inn. I'm staying here.

[Nate DiMeo]

Which first off, is insane to assume that you're just gonna stay. Stay at an inn. Like, that's what you have to pay for things.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Maybe email someone to confirm.

[Nate DiMeo]

As a writer, one of my favorite things to recognize in dialogue is where someone has poked a hole in the plot, and then instead of resolving the hole in the plot, they just have one character say a line.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yes.

[Nate DiMeo]

So in this case, the question is, she's like, why aren't There people here. Wouldn't this be the inn's most busy season? And then he's like, yes, but we are never open. And it's like, that doesn't act. What?

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yes, yes. They are never open during the 12 days of Christmas, which do. I know when those start. I'm assuming it's 12 days before Christmas, but does it include the day after Christmas? I don't fucking know.

[Nate DiMeo]

Partridge in a pear tree.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Partridge in a. Yeah, exactly. But he's like, we're never open during the 12 days of Christmas, so no one can stay here. And Kate's like, I'm a hardened lawyer from the city. I'm fucking staying here. And he's like, there's a ghost. I wouldn't recommend staying here. And she's like, fudge. Your ghost.

[Nate DiMeo]

Rachel.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yes.

[Nate DiMeo]

Do you believe in ghosts?

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yes.

[Nate DiMeo]

Okay, me too. And I'm like, if someone who lived in a house told me I couldn't stay there because there was a ghost there.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yes.

[Nate DiMeo]

I would be like, is the ghost nice?

[Kelsey McKinney]

Correct.

[Nate DiMeo]

And then if they said no, I would be like, cool. I'm not staying here. That's not my business. But our girl has, like, true, like, first girl dead in a horror movie brain where she's like, well, I'm actually different because I'm a girl boss, and ghosts can't hurt girl bosses.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah. I think we were both raised too Christian to not believe in ghosts and demons. I'm just like, you know what? I wish not to fuck with it. I don't want it near me. Don't bring it near me. I have a respectful distance. It's like the ocean. I respect her. I don't want it near her.

[Nate DiMeo]

Yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

I will watch from a distance. So I would also not stay in a haunted hotel, but Kate does not believe in ghosts, and she is too logical and too lawyerly to believe in ghosts. So she stays at this inn overnight, and surprise, surprise, there's a fucking ghost.

[Nate DiMeo]

Okay. Also more terrifying than a ghost.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Right.

[Nate DiMeo]

Because I know what you're thinking. If you haven't seen this movie, you're thinking, like, maybe he's a little blurry.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Exactly.

[Nate DiMeo]

Maybe he's, like, transparent.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Maybe he has no legs.

[Nate DiMeo]

Maybe his body, you can't touch it. Right. Like, typical depictions of ghosts. No. What this actually is is a full man who is fully embodied, who is giant.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yes.

[Nate DiMeo]

And from 1920.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yes.

[Nate DiMeo]

Who is just in the same house as you. Like, in some ways, that's scarier than a ghost. I'm like, I don't know. Absolutely not.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Oh, Being trapped in a random house in New Hampshire, Vermont, Michigan, with a white man from the 1920s who's absolutely huge.

[Nate DiMeo]

With a fash haircut.

[Kelsey McKinney]

No. With a fash haircut. No. Exactly. Exactly. And the thing is, Kate does respond correctly to this in that she immediately calls the police. And she's like, there's a strange man.

[Nate DiMeo]

And she has a weird knife.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah. Where did that come from?

[Nate DiMeo]

I don't know.

[Kelsey McKinney]

It was a weird life. But the police comes, and he's like, well, there's no one here. And also, this inn is famously haunted. Why are you staying here? And she's like, babe, I don't care about the ghost. There is a corporal man in this fucking inn with a fast haircut. Save me. And the police is like, just turn on your alarm.

[Nate DiMeo]

I don't see him.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah, yeah, make sure your alarm's on. And she's like, all right. Well, fuck the police. She doesn't get that far. But she wishes she was kind of an ACAB movie.

[Nate DiMeo]

It kind of is an ACAB movie in that she calls the police, they do not help her, and then they leave.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yes.

[Nate DiMeo]

But another thing that you've skipped over at some point during this, before she calls the police, he picks her up.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yes.

[Nate DiMeo]

Over his shoulder, carries her outside and sets her down. And as he's doing this, the producers, God bless them, give us a shot from behind this man with where he is like, I don't know, this man played fucking hockey or something. Like, he is caked up. Like, this man has a giant ass.

[Kelsey McKinney]

You're so right. I actually did forget about the fact that my man has giant cakes. He is cake.

[Nate DiMeo]

He's huge. And he carries her outside like she's nothing.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah.

[Nate DiMeo]

And sets her down. And in that scene, there is not a hint of flirting. And I'm like, come on, man.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Like, no. And it's like, you can tell where we're going. It's gonna be flirty at one point. I do appreciate that. It was clearly enemies at first. There was not a single hint of sexual tension at first. It was just like, this is a ghost made into a man who is trying to get me out of this inn. And I shan't be leaving because I need to sell this inn. And meanwhile, the ghost is like, I just wanna eat food.

[Nate DiMeo]

This is, like, an incredible touch that this movie has. In this one scene, I was, like, pumping my fist. I was like, let's fudge. Go. Because he's eating an apple with a knife.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Right.

[Nate DiMeo]

Like slicing pieces of an apple off to put into his mouth with, like, a giant bowie knife.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yes.

[Nate DiMeo]

And he's like, I'm real. And she's like, well, I don't think he's real. And he's like, well, what is real? And then she touches him, and it's clear that he's not going to disappear. And then at some point, someone says the phrase which I have written in all caps in my notes. All his senses are heightened upon his return.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yes. The innkeeper comes back. She calls the innkeeper. Kate calls the innkeeper and is like, yo, what the fuck is going on? Who is this man? And the innkeeper who has been keeping the inn for, it seems like his entire life.

[Nate DiMeo]

Forever. Yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Like, it's giving Sam and Frodo.

[Nate DiMeo]

Yes.

[Kelsey McKinney]

But. So the innkeeper comes back and is just like, yeah, so this is why I told you to leave. He becomes corporal every 12 days of Christmas for 12 days. And when he comes back, his senses are heightened, so all he wants to do is eat food. And I was like, does he want to fuck?

[Nate DiMeo]

Yeah, that's exactly. I was like, the thing is, there are many, many senses and many kinds of eating.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Even I was gonna say, there's so many kinds of eating that could be done when your senses are heightened. But he just wants an apple at this point. Point in time.

[Nate DiMeo]

Yeah. I also have a note here that's in all caps that says, they should make porn like this.

[Kelsey McKinney]

You texted me that.

[Nate DiMeo]

Because at this point, I was like, all of the scripting in this scene is like, oh, they're gonna fudge. And then you look at the timestamp and it's like, no. There's a whole hour and 15 minutes left of this movie. And also, it's like cable, right? Like, they're not gonna fuck.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Correct. But you're right. This is giving, like, made for women porn. So there's. There's an opportunity out there for someone.

[Nate DiMeo]

We're taking investors to script.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Sharks, I'm coming to you.

[Nate DiMeo]

Hello, Sharks. I'm having one of those weeks right now where my to do list is longer than I am tall and it's making me feel insane. There's a lot happening these days, and it can feel especially stressful or hopeless when things are outside of our control. But calm can help you restore your sense of balance and peace amidst outside chaos. Today, for example, when I was feeling super, super stressed out, I opened my Calm app and I went in there and I clicked the little stress and anxiety button, and then it showed me a beautiful photo of a sloth and Then it just led me through some really slow, soft inhales and exhales and it took maybe two minutes and I felt way better afterward and my shoulders dropped back to their normal spot. Calm is the number one app for sleep and meditation, giving you the power to calm your mind and change your life. CALM puts the tools you need right in your pocket and can help you dedicate just a few minutes of each day to live a happier, healthier life. Stress less, sleep more, and live better with Calm. For listeners of our show, Calm is offering an exclusive 40% off of a Calm premium subscription. At Calm, go to c a l m.com gossip for 40% off, unlimited access to Calm's entire library. That's calm.com gossip. Normal gossip is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Fiscally responsible financial geniuses, monetary magicians. These are things people say about drivers who switch their car insurance to Progressive and save hundreds. Visit progressive.com to see if you could save Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states or situations.

[Kelsey McKinney]

So we kind of have a sense of what's going on. And Kate is like, okay, I need to sell this house.

[Nate DiMeo]

Yes.

[Kelsey McKinney]

I can't sell this house with this man in here. But also, why are you here? Why do you keep coming back? Why are you only here for 12 days out of the year?

[Nate DiMeo]

She's just asking questions.

[Kelsey McKinney]

She's just asking questions. And the ghost Daniel is like, I don't ask these questions. I just want to live my peaceful 12 days and eat as many apples as possible.

[Nate DiMeo]

He's on vacation, baby.

[Kelsey McKinney]

He's like, this is not my problem. This is your problem. And she's like, well, I need to do my job and get the fuck out of here. So I'm going to go investigation mode and we're going to figure out why the fudge you're still here and then we're going to get you to the other side.

[Nate DiMeo]

Yes.

[Kelsey McKinney]

As in heaven or hell.

[Nate DiMeo]

Or hell somewhere.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Purgatory. I mean, he's in purgatory, right?

[Nate DiMeo]

Yeah. Purgatory is the end kind of. Yeah, yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Nice. Purgatory.

[Nate DiMeo]

Beautiful. Very aesthetic.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah.

[Nate DiMeo]

There's also like a whole problem, which is that for the first like 20 minutes of the movie, it's really unclear what time period he comes from.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yes.

[Nate DiMeo]

Like, because the costuming is so bad and he looks like a 2016 caked up hipster.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah.

[Nate DiMeo]

It's like, it's like what? Like, are you from the 1700s? Like, when were you alive?

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yes.

[Nate DiMeo]

And clearly someone asked this in A writer's room. Because the next scene we get is, like, her asking him questions and him being like, oh, like the Volstead act. Like, I was bootlegging, like, liquor into America. It's like, okay, all right. Prohibition. Now we know where we are. I love that. Thank you.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yes, yes, yes. I appreciated how much of a star turn that prohibition plays in this story. Yeah, it's really all about how bad prohibition was.

[Nate DiMeo]

It's, like, partly about how bad prohibition was, but it's also, like, kind of moralistic in that it's, like, against crime. Right. Like, it's like, he shouldn't be doing these crimes is, like, a major part of this. And I'm like, I'm sorry. One funny joke he keeps making is that whenever someone says the word bootleg, he's like, I prefer the term rum runner.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yes.

[Nate DiMeo]

And I'm like, sorry, but being a rum runner is hot. Like, you're doing crime, but it's a hot crime. That means we have parties at our house. So I'm like, you guys are all confused. Oh, you need to be more pro this man. You need to be more supportive.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Listen, Kelsey, one of my all time favorite fan fictions takes place in prohibition, and it's a supernatural fanfiction.

[Nate DiMeo]

Oh, God.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And Jensen Ackles is obviously a rum runner, and I'm like, oh, that's hot. Crimes for alcohol.

[Nate DiMeo]

It is hot. The thing is, crimes for good are good.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Robin Hood. It's giving Robin Hood bingo.

[Nate DiMeo]

It's also like, yeah, the whole thing with prohibition was that rich people were still drinking and no one else was. So it's like, actually doing, like, a little absinthe as a treat is good.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Upcharging rich people for alcohol. Good.

[Nate DiMeo]

Congrats, babe.

[Kelsey McKinney]

We love you. So, Daniel, at this point, I'm like, even though you're a white man with a fashion haircut, I'm on your side. Yeah. But also, like, do you. I'm like, do you want to be resolved? Do you want to keep coming back here year after year? Do you wish to go on to the beyond? It seems like he's kind of tired of this shit, which makes sense. It's been like, 100 years.

[Nate DiMeo]

Yeah. There's like another flashback here where it shows us, like, he's, like, talking to his fiance in the past. Her name is Lily. And they're like, first off, they're, like, alone in the inn, kissing in presumably 1919. Which I'm like, that doesn't seem real to me at all. Not allowed. She also says something to him. Where she's like, the inn is perfect. It's part of why I fell in love with you. And I'm like, okay, so she wants your money. My dude. Like, there are a lot of problems here with this relationship, but the whole time they're in this flashback, it's like, okay, am I, the viewer, supposed to believe that he wants to be free so that he can be with Lily? Am I supposed to believe that he doesn't want to be free so that he can remember these memories? Like, what does this man want? And the answer is, it doesn't matter.

[Kelsey McKinney]

It really doesn't. Because all we care about is what Kate wants, which is to sell the motherfucking inn.

[Nate DiMeo]

Yes.

[Kelsey McKinney]

So our girl goes detective mode. She's researching Googling, presumably going to the library. I think at some point, like, mm, there's some real. I'm looking at microfiche content.

[Nate DiMeo]

There's a scene where he makes a lot of cocktails.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yes.

[Nate DiMeo]

Because someone, question mark, Challenges his honor. And then he's like, I'm the best bartender that's ever lived.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Okay, wait. Yeah, let's rewind. Let's rewind. Because there's, like. There's a side plot where apparently no one has ever seen Daniel the ghost, other than the innkeeper, who doesn't really hang out with him. So he's just left alone for 12.

[Nate DiMeo]

Days to eat apples.

[Kelsey McKinney]

But then the water goes out in town or some shit, and a local owner of a bar comes by and is like, you guys have a bar at the hotel?

[Nate DiMeo]

Let me have my party here.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Exactly. And Daniel's like, no one's allowed here. Fuck you. And the bartender lady, who also seems to have a little bit of a flirtationship with the innkeeper big time, is just like, who is that? And Kate's like, he's like a cousin of the family or whatever. He's just like a little. He's a little extra.

[Nate DiMeo]

Yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And then he's. The bartender's lady is like, I make the best cocktail in town. And Daniel's like, I bet you fucking don't. And the thing is, Daniel clearly is using egg whites in his whiskey sour. Like, he's. He's making some real drinks. He's a run runner. He clearly knows his alcohol.

[Nate DiMeo]

Also, like, every drink he makes in the scene where he's making drinks is, like, almost clear. And it's like, okay, I do believe that you're a good bartender, actually, because these are straight liquor.

[Kelsey McKinney]

I'm scared to drink these.

[Nate DiMeo]

He's like, I need Fernet and it's like, okay, man, whatever.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Sure, whatever. You fucking need my guy. And so this turns into, like, a party at the inn. And I guess Daniel is rem that being around people is good.

[Nate DiMeo]

Yes.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And Kate is also figuring out that Daniel is hot. There's this scene where she's wandering around the house and stumbles upon him taking his shirt off. And, yeah, he's jacked.

[Nate DiMeo]

Yeah, he's jacked, reader.

[Kelsey McKinney]

He's jacked.

[Nate DiMeo]

And then she just watches him iron his shirt. And I'm like, get out of his room. You're being rude.

[Kelsey McKinney]

But I also was like, oh. And at this moment, I was like, this is a porn. This is leading to a very clear resolution.

[Nate DiMeo]

It looks like it is, but it's not.

[Kelsey McKinney]

It's not.

[Nate DiMeo]

This whole movie gives the vibe of, like, okay, imagine your friend is dating a really hot giant man.

[Kelsey McKinney]

I can imagine this.

[Nate DiMeo]

Who behaves, like, completely irrationally.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yes.

[Nate DiMeo]

And is always, like, kind of has a hot temper. And everyone's like, what's up with this guy? It's like, if that reality existed. And then this woman was like, what's a version of that reality? That would explain his behavior that would allow me to keep dating him. Oh, it's that he's a ghost, actually, and his wife is dead, and that's why he's misbehaving.

[Kelsey McKinney]

It's like, oh, this is a man from the 1920s. He's not used to women being able to drive. He's not used to women having rights. He's just really confused as to why this woman is allowed to be a barrister.

[Nate DiMeo]

Yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And it is like every single romance novel where you're like, why is this man so possessive and angry? And then you're like, oh, like, I don't know, he watched his culture shot or some shit. Like, he has trauma. It's his culture.

[Nate DiMeo]

Yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah. So we find out that it is, in fact, Daniel's culture to be a little bit domineering. But it's okay because Kate. Well, Kate kind of likes it.

[Nate DiMeo]

She likes it.

[Kelsey McKinney]

She likes it. Which, I'm going to be honest, if a tall, beefy man who was caked up like that picked you up over.

[Nate DiMeo]

His shoulder and carried you outside.

[Kelsey McKinney]

I'm also like, is he misogynist? Because he seems to really value Kate as a human being, which is more than some men in 2024.

[Nate DiMeo]

Listening and learning are important character traits in a man. And this man is like, at some point in the movie. I don't remember when this is at some point in the movie, he says, like, women being so forward is very off putting to me. Right. Like, them asking you out is very off putting to me. But also I like it and wish I had it. And it's like, yes. Okay, so this is like, this is the fantasy, right, Is that I can change him.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Exactly. He just needs. And he'll be a different man.

[Nate DiMeo]

Yeah. But unfortunately, the new information he gets while he's being a bartender is that his wife died, which, like, yes, obviously she died, but that also she was pregnant and that the baby died.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yes.

[Nate DiMeo]

And all of this is made more complicated by the fact that his wife married his brother after he died.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And his brother, which we see through flashbacks, is very disapproving of his rum running.

[Nate DiMeo]

And not hot.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Not hot at all.

[Nate DiMeo]

Like, they do not look like brothers. No.

[Kelsey McKinney]

I mean, they do, but in that way where you're just like, oh, that's unfortunate.

[Nate DiMeo]

Yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

So the brother's very clearly a villain. And importantly, the brother, we realize through these flashbacks is the person that Daniel saw on the veranda with his fiance right before he got hit over the.

[Nate DiMeo]

Which is an alibi.

[Kelsey McKinney]

So true. It is an alibi. So we are pretty sure that he is not killed by his brother to get with his fiance.

[Nate DiMeo]

Yes. Lily. To be with Lily.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yes. So at this point in the movie, it's like, it's a lovely night, and they're bartending, and the bartender from town is like, what if we had our annual town Christmas party here? And Kate's like, there's no way that'll happen. And Daniel's like, let's fucking go. He got a taste of partying. And he's like, oh, yeah, I missed this.

[Nate DiMeo]

This is definitely one of those things that I actually did find believable in this movie where I'm like, oh, you're telling me the rum runner wants to have a rager at his house? What a surprise. Like, that is well within character, 100%. Oh. Now that I've had three cocktails and remembered how much I love giving other people cocktails, I want to do more of that. It's like, yeah, that was your job.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Now that I've had three of the strongest cocktails any of you have ever had in your entire life. Because I. Worse tranquilizers, Fucking prohibition era cocktails. Like, those are Great Depression cocktails.

[Nate DiMeo]

Yes.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Like, times were hard.

[Nate DiMeo]

Yes. Great Depression cocktails were like, literally, they were drinking absinthe that made you hallucinate. Like, it was a different time. It was not like, oh, I'm doing my Four, you know, adorable little cocktails that have six ingredients. It was like, we've poured gin into this cup.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Here you go.

[Nate DiMeo]

Yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

You were literally drinking like, shit. That would kill them. Because it had minor amounts of alcohol in it. Because of prohibition, which I learned from the book Water for Elephants, which I read many times as a child. Rachel. Prohibition plays a really big part in that story as well.

[Nate DiMeo]

You know, what I'm learning here is that you love prohibition. Like, you. Is this because you're from Chicago?

[Kelsey McKinney]

Maybe. I mean, I love clear stakes. And prohibition is really. The stakes are so clear. They are like, here is an illicit substance that everyone wants that was previously legal. Like, it's so rare to go backwards in such a strong way on a substance like that, where you have an entire society. Exactly. Could you imagine if tomorrow the government was like, actually, alcohol is banned. You create such a massive market, which, of course, people flood. It's a perfect time to honestly be gay, do crimes.

[Nate DiMeo]

Literally. It's also like, okay, alcohol is banned. And also, like, 60% of the population has trauma from World War I. Right?

[Kelsey McKinney]

Like, everyone's a little bit of an alcoholic. Yeah, exactly. It's like you.

[Nate DiMeo]

This is a note that I have highlighted in my document, which is, shouldn't this man smoke?

[Kelsey McKinney]

You're right, he should.

[Nate DiMeo]

Why doesn't he smoke? He smokes nothing. The whole movie. And I'm like, you're telling me a.

[Kelsey McKinney]

1919 rum runner whose senses are heightened.

[Nate DiMeo]

Whose senses are heightened isn't just gonna be chain smoking cigarettes like he absolutely is. But there's no room for that here.

[Kelsey McKinney]

There's not enough room. He doesn't have a little tobacco pipe.

[Nate DiMeo]

This was before vapes. So people had forgotten that tobacco was hot is the thing.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Imagine giving this ghost to vape. Like, that would be a scene in 2024. This movie was made in 2024.

[Nate DiMeo]

They'd be like, you have to stop smoking these cigarettes inside their worst. For you have this.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And he's like, what is that? What is that? Imagine. I mean, I'm sure they had bead back then, but it was weak as fuck.

[Nate DiMeo]

So, yeah, imagine giving him a 10 milligram gummy and being like, good luck, babe. Oh, you want to eat more out.

[Kelsey McKinney]

There in the snow doing snow angels.

[Nate DiMeo]

Yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Ky, off his ass.

[Nate DiMeo]

Huge news. I wrote a whole book of beautiful essays about gossip. It's called you didn't hear this from me, and I'm so, so proud of it. It's about how we use gossip. It's about Britney Spears and West Elm Caleb and Gilgamesh and Picasso and it's so, so fun and I think it's really good. It comes out February 11th in hardback and a sexy audiobook which I read. You can buy it wherever you get books. You can go to KelseyMcKinneyBook.com to see all the retailers where you could possibly buy a book from and to buy tickets for the upcoming book tour, which will be really fun and really exciting. That's Kelsey McKinney book.com Cats are so weird.

[Rachel Hampton]

My cat Pong just recently decided that he only ever wants to sleep inside of an Ikea tote bag full of other tote bags. It's just what he wants. Now we all know that cats have a lot of opinions, and that's especially true when it comes to cat litter. I'm sure you've gone through tons of it over the years, but once you give Pretty Litter a try, you and your cat will love it. Here's why. Pretty Litter's non clumping formula traps odor and moisture. It's ultra absorbent, it's lightweight, low dust and 16 pound bag works for up to a month. And this really gives you peace of mind. Prettilitter changes color to indicate early signs of potential illnesses in your cats, like urinary tract infections, kidney issues and more. And if that wasn't enough, Pretty Litter ships free right to your door. You never run out. You don't have huge kitty litter bags taking up space. And even better, you don't have to lug those huge tubs from a store to your car to your house. Cat litter is one of those things like toilet paper or paper towels or hand soap where it's like you don't want to go out and buy it ever. So it's really nice to just have it shipped directly to you. Give Pretty Litter a try. You and your cat will love it. Go to PrettyLitter.comGossip to save 20% on your first order and get a free cat toy. That's PrettyLitter.comGossip to save 20% on your first order AND get a free cat toy. PrettyLitter.comGossip Terms and Conditions apply. See site for details.

[Nate DiMeo]

Now that I'm an adult with a real job and I can actually buy presents, I started really liking it. Like giving a gift to someone that they don't want to buy for themselves or would never buy for themselves is such a treat. Like, especially if you can give them just a little bit of luxury, like something they don't know they're missing for quality Gifts at an affordable price. My go to is quince. Quince lets you treat your loved ones and yourself to everyday luxury at an affordable price. Check out their 14k gold jewelry. They have Italian leather handbags and they also have European linen sheet sets. Whatever you're looking for. All quince Items are priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands. They use premium fabrics and finishes for that luxury feel in every piece. I know I've said this before, but I'm literally obsessed with their cashmere throw blanket. It's like the perfect size for a throw blanket. So it just fits over you and it's so, so, so warm and it's so soft. It's also great, you know, if you don't know someone's size and you don't want to guess, get them a throw blanket. It's soft, it's lovely. Everyone wants them Gift luxury this holiday season without the luxury price tag. Go to quince.com gossip for 365 day returns plus free shipping on your order. That's Q U I n c e.com gossip to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quints.com gossip one of these nights. Well, they have a fight. Because that's important. And then she, like, gets scared of something.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yes. At some point in here, something's in the house. That's not Daniel.

[Nate DiMeo]

She's like, there are whispers. Do you hear the whispers? And I'm like, at this point, I'm like, okay, is this a horror movie? Right? Like, are we actually gonna turn? That could be fun. And then he decides that he's actually gonna sleep in her room with her. Except he doesn't sleep because he's a ghost.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yes.

[Nate DiMeo]

So he sits in her room and they do not kiss.

[Kelsey McKinney]

No. It's an edging movie.

[Nate DiMeo]

Which again, it's an edging movie.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Porn. But yeah. He sleeps in her room, like, facing away from her. And she's like, I feel so safe and protected. And I'm like, now kiss, kiss, kiss, kiss. But they don't kiss. But there's this open mystery of, like, what else is in the house. Because at first she thinks that it's him. Like something gets knocked off a wall or like she. A door gets closed really loud. Like something scary happens. And she thinks that Daniel's fucking with her because they had just had this big fight. Yeah.

[Nate DiMeo]

And he's like, no.

[Kelsey McKinney]

He's like, I wouldn't do that to you.

[Nate DiMeo]

I would never do that to you.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And she's like, wow, am I starting to have feelings for this ghost that's only around 12 days out of the year, she clearly is.

[Nate DiMeo]

You know, the thing is, this movie makes a whole thing about, like, well, you couldn't possibly be in love with a ghost that's only there 12 days out of the year. And I'm like, for a girl boss.

[Kelsey McKinney]

No, Insane.

[Nate DiMeo]

It actually could be a perfect relationship to just have a man that is from 1920 that you're in love with that you only see for the 12 days leading up to Christmas. Like, that's your two weeks of vacation.

[Kelsey McKinney]

No, it's.

[Nate DiMeo]

You spend them with him, then you go back to work.

[Kelsey McKinney]

I was literally just thinking about this because I am single and dating right now. But dating someone actually takes so much fucking time, especially in, like, a serious relationship. And you have to compromise so much. And despite the fact that I love romance novels and I love romance, as I get older and also busier, I'm just like, I actually don't know if I want or have the time for all of that right now.

[Nate DiMeo]

Yes.

[Kelsey McKinney]

So a boo who just shows up once a year. That sounds perfect.

[Nate DiMeo]

And he can't, like, fuck around while he's not with you because he's in, like, ghost purgatory.

[Kelsey McKinney]

He's not E. And M, like, he is only for you. It's beautiful. So I could see Miss Girl being like, honestly, maybe I'll start taking off Christmas. Cause there's a plot line that she never takes off Christmas because she doesn't give a fuck about holidays or her.

[Nate DiMeo]

Family because she's miserable. That's like, the whole thing about these women is that they're miserable because they have jobs, and having jobs makes people miserable.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And you know what? Correct. Having jobs does make women miserable.

[Nate DiMeo]

Makes everyone miserable. Okay, so she goes back to Boston because a senator died.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Question mark, question mark, question mark, question mark.

[Nate DiMeo]

I don't know. Her boss says she has to, so she does. Yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And her boss is also mad because Kate is very clearly the closer of this company. And they're like, why haven't you sold this in? Why haven't you figured this out? Yes. Oh.

[Nate DiMeo]

Oh.

[Kelsey McKinney]

She's there to get the in appraise so they can sell it, but they can't get the appraiser in because Daniel keeps fucking shit up. And so she's like, it's really funny. And they're like, why haven't you gotten the in appraise? And Kate can't be like, well, there's a ghost that I'm thinking about fucking.

[Nate DiMeo]

Yeah. Yeah. That doesn't Usually go over well with your boss?

[Kelsey McKinney]

No, it doesn't. It might hear, but not then. Yeah, I think I could tell Justin that I was busy because I was thinking about fucking a ghost.

[Nate DiMeo]

You probably could. And it would probably be okay. Yeah, he would be like, we'll talk about that later.

[Kelsey McKinney]

No, he'd be like, well, I'm concerned for you, but as long as the ghost isn't evil, we'll talk later.

[Nate DiMeo]

But her boss, Katie's boss, does not take this well. No, he's like, you need to be here forever or else you won't get a promotion. The promotion is like, it's unclear to me what it is or if it. Who cares? She is like clearly going back. There's never even really any question whether she's going back or not.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah, she goes back and this is the moment where like when she leaves, she promises to come back. And Daniel very clearly is like, I hope you do.

[Nate DiMeo]

Yes.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And then when she comes back, I'm like, oh, something has changed. Here they are moving into falling in love territory.

[Nate DiMeo]

Yes. They're crying, they're hugging.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yes. It's beautiful.

[Nate DiMeo]

And now we're like approaching Christmas party. The first thing I would like to discuss is her hair, which is that. First off, she's wearing an insane outfit. She's wearing a like tea length, bright red dress. Yeah, it has a like sweetheart neckline, but also a strap and a shoulder cap. So it's like just a deranged outfit. But what's more deranged is the whole movie this woman has been wearing a wig with luscious hair. Right. It looks great in every scene because it's a wig. In this scene, the wig has been twisted into a side ponytail. One. One side ponytail for a formal event.

[Kelsey McKinney]

The side ponytail is like, it's. It's like, it's crazy. It's like a fuck ass ponytail.

[Nate DiMeo]

It's so bad. It like looks like a ponytail you give your friend, like, to make her laugh. It's not real.

[Kelsey McKinney]

It's the way kids hair looks after school when you can tell they've been running around it refilling and have maybe redone their ponytail that you gave them at the beginning of the day. Like, it looks so bad.

[Nate DiMeo]

She's a beautiful girl. This outfit does nothing.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Nothing for her.

[Nate DiMeo]

This hairstyle does even less.

[Kelsey McKinney]

I would say. It does. Yeah. Less than nothing. It's negative. It is a net negative hairstyle.

[Nate DiMeo]

And like, the problem is, is that this is the outfit she's supposed to be in for their first kiss.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yes.

[Nate DiMeo]

That like, they're gonna kiss in her room. Only kiss?

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah.

[Nate DiMeo]

And she's like. But the whole time I was just like, what is up with her hair?

[Kelsey McKinney]

No, fix it. Fix it. Jesus. You're correct. The way I forgot about this fuck ass ponytail. It's so bad. And it's like, this is the most romantic scenes in the movie because it's a Christmas party. Daniel and Kate are dancing. The innkeeper and the bartender are dancing. Like, the innkeeper and Daniel are talking about Kate, and he's like, I think I really like her. And you look at her and she's wearing this stupid ponytail. And you're like.

[Nate DiMeo]

Oh, it's so bad. This is also one of those where it's like, you know what? I now believe that this character has no friends. Seeing this ponytail, I'm like, I 100 believe it. You have no friends because no friend of yours would allow you to wear your hair like that to fuck a ghost. That's not.

[Kelsey McKinney]

No, no.

[Nate DiMeo]

Also, like, men of the 1920s cannot appreciate side ponytails. That was only fashionable from 19, like, 80 to 1984.

[Kelsey McKinney]

I'm like, you probably look like a little girl to him. Like, stop this.

[Nate DiMeo]

Stop it.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah, so that was terrible. But it is a cute scene. You can see that they're really starting to feel each other and thinking about the logistics of making this work because they haven't figured out what exactly happened. Like, all Daniel knows is that his fiance maybe betrayed him, maybe for reasons that don't really make sense.

[Nate DiMeo]

By now, he knows that she didn't. Because Kate finds a birth certificate for the baby that's like, has his name on it.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yes.

[Nate DiMeo]

Which is also insane for other reasons. Because it's like, if you're pretending to be married to someone's brother in order to hide the fact that you were having sex before marriage, you would put your husband's name on the birth certificate of that baby, even if it was his brother's. Like, that's not.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Clearly no one was paying attention here. They were like, well, whatever. She needs to find out. So we're going to make this easy for her.

[Nate DiMeo]

Yeah, of course.

[Kelsey McKinney]

So Daniel's like, do I want to go into the great beyond to be with Lily, my fiance? Or do I want to be with Kate? And this becomes the central tension where Kate is like, I want you to be happy, but also I want you to stay with me. And then spooky shit starts happening at the party.

[Nate DiMeo]

So spooky.

[Kelsey McKinney]

This is the spookiest scene.

[Nate DiMeo]

It's so weird. This whole Scene is so strange.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Describe it. Tell me what happened.

[Nate DiMeo]

Okay. Kate is, like, dancing with someone not our business, and he's, like, watching her dance. When he, like, sees Lily.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yes.

[Nate DiMeo]

Like, he can, like, see his former wife in the room. And, like, we're getting shots that show us that, like, other people can't see her.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Right.

[Nate DiMeo]

Like, only he can see her. She is actually kind of wearing an appropriate gown. Like, she's wearing. She looks different than everyone else. And he can, like, basically see the replay of, like, it's like watching a replay back in a sports game. It's like he could see the replay of what was happening inside the party the night that he was killed. And he, like, follows her outside. His brother is also there. They're, like, talking about how his brother's being like, I hate my brother because he, like, is a law breaker. Like, I love cops. I don't know what this guy's problem is. He sucks.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah.

[Nate DiMeo]

And Billy keeps being like, no, I love him and I can change him. Like, literally. She's basically like, I can change him, and he'll stop doing it. Doing crimes eventually. And then he's like, only at this point does he realize that then his brother couldn't have killed him because you could see him on the porch the whole time. And then at the party appears his cousin.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yes.

[Nate DiMeo]

Dun, dun, dun. Holding a bloody rock.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Exactly. And there's a confrontation between the ghost of Lily, the ghost of the cousin, and Daniel, who is also ghost, and also Kate, who's not ghost.

[Nate DiMeo]

Yeah. It becomes kind of clear that both cousin and Lily were ghosts in this house the whole time.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And Daniel somehow didn't know them for a hundred years, which. I had questions. Are there different planes for ghosts? Like, how did they not interact with each other?

[Nate DiMeo]

And then also, they're, like, trying to do this thing where they're like, it's a gift that Lily gave him. And I'm like, but what's the gift here, babes? Like, what? What?

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah. I think the gift is that she is protecting him from his cousin, who we find out killed him. Because the guy that Daniel was running rum for in Canada is just, like, evil.

[Nate DiMeo]

He gets killed because he tries to get out of the game.

[Kelsey McKinney]

You're right.

[Nate DiMeo]

He's like, I'm not doing rubber running anymore. I'm going to be a good, upstanding citizen. And the thing is, people in charge of massive illegal operations do not like that. And so his cousin has to kill him. So in a way, his wife and his brother's obsession with the Law killed him.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Correct.

[Nate DiMeo]

If you think about it.

[Kelsey McKinney]

If you think about it, it's ACAB all the way down.

[Nate DiMeo]

It sure is.

[Kelsey McKinney]

I'm not entirely sure what Lily's gift is. I think he's stuck in this purgatory, is somehow her gift to him. Like, she saved him somehow.

[Nate DiMeo]

I don't get it.

[Kelsey McKinney]

I don't really get it either. All I know is that Daniel and his cousin have a conversation, and his cousin is like, thank you for forgiving me.

[Nate DiMeo]

Yeah. And then he disappears.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And so he's released from the purgatory. And then Lily is like, okay, Deuces. And Daniel has to make a choice as to whether or not he is released from purgatory. And him and Kate spend, like, a night together. Do you think they fucked?

[Nate DiMeo]

They don't fuck. They like, but, like, I don't even think I know.

[Kelsey McKinney]

According to the movie. I know, but also, like, ah, what did they do all night?

[Nate DiMeo]

Well, I think this is the thing that makes me crazy about this scene is it's like, at midnight, he's, like, gonna turn back into a ghost or whatever. And so they kiss a little, and then she goes to sleep on the couch. And I'm like, that's crazy.

[Kelsey McKinney]

I don't believe it.

[Nate DiMeo]

If you're in love with someone and.

[Kelsey McKinney]

They'Re gonna disappear in two hours, you.

[Nate DiMeo]

Should, one, stay awake, and two, fuck, yes. What are you doing?

[Kelsey McKinney]

You don't have an opportunity for another year. You also don't know if he's gonna come back next year because his storyline has been resolved. So Kate wakes up the next morning, and funnily enough, Daniel's not there. But also, she receives a call from her boss who's like, you know what? I have been underappreciating you. You do deserve vacation.

[Nate DiMeo]

It's insane.

[Kelsey McKinney]

I'm so sorry that I yelled at you about closing the inn, and this has never happened. It's never happened. But I also was like, you know what? I'm glad that they know your worth now, because you stopped working for, what, three days?

[Nate DiMeo]

Like, the real moral of this story is to take your vacation days so that your work will appreciate.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Actually, yes, it is. Take your vacation days so your work realizes how much work you're doing. So she takes her vacation days, and she's like, okay, great. I'm gonna get promoted to again. What partner? I don't fucking know. I don't know. But she's also like. She walks outside, it's a beautiful snowy day, and she's like, daniel's gone. I Miss him. I guess I'll come back next year to see if he comes back. Cause again, we don't know.

[Nate DiMeo]

We don't know. We have no idea.

[Kelsey McKinney]

But then. And something we haven't mentioned yet is that a lot of this movie relies on the concept of property lines. For some reason, like, Daniel can't leave the property. Every single time he tries to leave.

[Nate DiMeo]

He likes, like, disappears and gets ported back in.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah.

[Nate DiMeo]

This is a crazy thing about ghosts that I often think about is how, like, obsessed we are with property and as a connection to ghosts where it's like, a ghost haunts this house, a ghost haunts this space. And it's like, what? Why?

[Kelsey McKinney]

Why does the ghost respect property lines? Also, what happens if the house gets rezoned?

[Nate DiMeo]

None of this makes any sense to me. What are the laws of ghosts?

[Kelsey McKinney]

None of it makes any sense. But we do know that the laws are broken and that Daniel is free because as Kate walks out into this beautiful snowy morning, who comes walking from the forest past the property line where he previously could not go, but Daniel made, like, fully human in 2015.

[Nate DiMeo]

He's also wearing a hat.

[Kelsey McKinney]

He's also wearing a stupid hat.

[Nate DiMeo]

It looks so bad.

[Kelsey McKinney]

This is like, he looks the worst in the scene and I don't know why they did this to him.

[Nate DiMeo]

It makes no sense.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Has been caked up and hot the entire time and now suddenly he's wearing a stupid hat. I guess he saw her fuck ass ponytail and was like, you know what?

[Nate DiMeo]

Vibe match to save space.

[Kelsey McKinney]

He's like, I found someone to match my freak.

[Nate DiMeo]

Jay says his senses are dampened, his ears are cold.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yeah, he's finally, I guess, feeling the cold. I don't know. He's wearing this stupid hat. And they run together and they get together. And from here I have a lot of questions. And I think that's why I love this movie so much, because it just. It ends and you're like, okay, so does he have a Social Security number? Now? How do you turn somebody who has been dead since like the early 1900s into a fully legal resident of the United States? Like, she's a lawyer, so I'm sure she has some method.

[Nate DiMeo]

Will he age?

[Kelsey McKinney]

Is he just this age forever?

[Nate DiMeo]

Does he have any skills?

[Kelsey McKinney]

Clearly he can go across property lines.

[Nate DiMeo]

I guess he could be a bartender.

[Kelsey McKinney]

I guess they're just going to run the inn. Also, how are you going to explain where this man came from to the people in your life?

[Nate DiMeo]

You're. Yeah, you're not. He's huge.

[Kelsey McKinney]

He's Huge.

[Nate DiMeo]

He says the wrong thing all the time because he is crazy. Shit. 19, 20.

[Kelsey McKinney]

He's never seen a woman vote before. Has he even seen a car?

[Nate DiMeo]

He doesn't know what football is. Like, he at one point calls a cell phone your special device.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Yes. Yes. And so this is the point in the movie where I'm like, I would watch a sequel. I would watch at least a 30 minute epilogue of what happens of introducing Daniel to the real world of 2015. Because I am just. I want to see him go to the dmv. I want to see him learn how to drive. I want to see him try a Cheeto. I want to see him try Sriracha. Like, I want to see him take a 10 milligram edible. I have so many questions. Does he know what skinny girl liquor is? Like, I have so many questions.

[Nate DiMeo]

I want to show him the Real Housewives of New York.

[Kelsey McKinney]

I want to show him the Real Housewives of New York. Like, I want to show him the Titanic film.

[Nate DiMeo]

Yeah. There's so much that he doesn't know. And like, yeah, this is what I mean about this being like, the whole movie feels like a delusion of a girl who just, like, wants an excuse to date a hot guy. Is. It's like, there's no world in which this relationship works. Like, just truly no world. They have bad communication skills. They are like, they have not spoken to each other at all. He knows nothing about her. She's too busy to have friends. And I'm supposed to believe that she's just going to be able to educate a man from the 1920s into, like, not getting arrested for doing, like, hate speech? Like, there's no way, right?

[Kelsey McKinney]

Like, no, literally, I'm like, what happens when this man sees a black person?

[Nate DiMeo]

Yeah, bad.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Like, can you imagine being like, okay, so there's this man named Martin Luther King. He had a dream. This is important for you to know.

[Nate DiMeo]

Yeah. So you know how during your lifetime there were people who wanted black people to vote. Now a black person was president.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Now there's a black president. And the thing is, this movie came out in 2015.

[Nate DiMeo]

Oh, yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

There was like, 2014. Like, the president is black. And it's like. And then you immediately go into Trump after this. Like, I'm just like, what? Tell me about their life afterwards.

[Nate DiMeo]

Yeah. I'm also like, can you have a baby with someone?

[Kelsey McKinney]

No. Literally, that old?

[Nate DiMeo]

Like, is he fertile?

[Kelsey McKinney]

I don't know. I'm like, does this work on Twilight Rules where, like, some random shit happens and suddenly you're allowed to have a baby. Like, does she even want children?

[Nate DiMeo]

That's a good point. Maybe she doesn't want children.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Maybe she doesn't. Maybe the N is their child.

[Nate DiMeo]

Also, they never fuck, not even once.

[Kelsey McKinney]

I know, I know. It's so funny because I describe this movie as a movie where a woman fucks a ghost, but she actually doesn't fuck him once. But spiritually she does.

[Nate DiMeo]

She barely kisses him. She kisses him two times.

[Kelsey McKinney]

It's a really chaste movie, but somehow the vibe of it being the prelude to a porn movie really makes it feel far more. Yeah, I'm like, nothing happens, but the subtext is real.

[Nate DiMeo]

I think that's the thing that is the most implausible to me about the ending of the movie is this, like, moment where it's like the clock is ticking down and they're just, like, having this nice, like, hug. I'm like, you're telling me his senses are heightened. He's about to go back to what he described as a waking nightmare for the rest of the year. And this man is not fucking.

[Kelsey McKinney]

I'm like, I'm gonna be honest. That man has not felt the touch of a woman in a hundred years. And you're telling me he's not bricked the fuck up right now?

[Nate DiMeo]

Like, also, I do think this guy's kind of a good actor, to be honest.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Like, I think, yes, I agree.

[Nate DiMeo]

Facial expressions are very good. And there's, like, a scene early on where she touches him to, like, prove that he's real. Like, she touches his arm and you can see, like, the actor's body, like, seize a little. And it's like, yeah, this man is, like, not gonna survive making out without having sex. Like, he's dying. He's dead.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Maybe the issue is that they made out and he got a little too excited.

[Nate DiMeo]

Yeah.

[Kelsey McKinney]

And they were like, okay, she's gonna take a nap, and then we'll come back to this at a later date.

[Nate DiMeo]

Yeah. Oh, tragic.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Tragic.

[Nate DiMeo]

Thank you for supporting Normal Gossip. Thank you for joining us on this journey through the spirit of Christmas. Rachel, thank you for coming out and bringing us this horrific and beautiful film.

[Kelsey McKinney]

I am so happy that I have gotten to take my personal mission of making as many people as possible watch this movie and somehow broaden that mission even further.

[Nate DiMeo]

It's beautiful, and I'm glad that you're achieving your dreams.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Thanks so much. I'm gonna fuck a ghost.

[Nate DiMeo]

Hell, yeah. Okay, bye.

[Kelsey McKinney]

Bye. Thank you so much for listening to this extra special bonus episode of Normal Gossip. If you do want to subscribe, you can do [e-mail] if you are already a subscriber, please keep your eyes open. We are sending you an email to get feedback on what you might like to see in this feed in the future. More Insanity, More Caked up Ghosts Tell Us this podcast was hosted by me, Rachel Hampton. It was produced by Sierra Spragley Ricks and J. Tol Vieira. The co creators and dowager queens of Normal gossip are Alex Sujong Laughlin and Kelsey McKinney. Justin Ellis is Defectors Project Editor. Jasper Wang and Sean Kuhn are Defectors business guys. Alex sujong Laughlin is Defectors Supervising Producer. Tom Le is our Editor in Chief. Abigail Siegel is our intern. Dan McQuaid runs our merch store which you can find at normalgossip store. Tara Jacoby designed our show art and thank you to the rest of the Defector staff. Defector Media is a collectively owned subscriber based media company and Normal Gossip is a proud member of Radiotopia. I'm Rachel Hampton and remember you did not hear this from me but.

[Nate DiMeo]

Keep Radiotopia from PRX.